Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Witton Warrior on October 01, 2011, 08:06:25 PM
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After Gabby's great display today and his exclellent attitude all season I got to thinking "is he a Villa Legend yet"?
This set me off thinking what makes a Legend at this club?
God? Superb player up against the odds with a touch of naughtiness
Sid? Sublime skill; always trying; returned to us and did well
Withey? Iconic centre-forward who gave his all and scored "that goal" (but played down the road!)
Tayls? Just one of us (still is) who was honest and tried and tried for the cause
What makes a Legend for you and is Gabby there yet?
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I should say - he is for me!
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A legend is a player who cares for the club. A player who achieves individually and as part of a winning team. He's almost there for me. All that's missing is a cup or two.
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A legend is a player who cares for the club. A player who achieves individually and as part of a winning team. He's almost there for me. All that's missing is a cup or two.
I wondered if part of it was having to be part a winning team. Also considered longevity but looking back at Barry I soon dismissed it...
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Villa legends (for me anyway) in the last 5 years or so:
- Martin Laursen
- Olof Mellberg
- Juan Puablo Angel
- Gareth Barry (boo)
- Gabby Agbonlahor
- Brad Friedel
- Stiliyan Petrov
For me, it's players who are both greatly talented, and clearly care a lot for the club. I know there is probably slight controversy over Gareth Barry, but for me he did so much for the club it's hard to exclude him, despite the manner of his departure.
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A legend is a player who cares for the club. A player who achieves individually and as part of a winning team. He's almost there for me. All that's missing is a cup or two.
This is why Ian Taylor is my all time favourite player and a total legend to me.
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A legend is a player who cares for the club. A player who achieves individually and as part of a winning team. He's almost there for me. All that's missing is a cup or two.
This is why Ian Taylor is my all time favourite player and a total legend to me.
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Thinking on it Gabby would be a Legend even if he was never part of a cup-winning team for me.
He has come through some pretty torrid times (the infamous "not being booed when subbed" incident for example) and has produced time and time again - his exploits against Small Heath just add to this...
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Drink lots, don't train, be as good in your position as anyone else in the world.
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Thinking on it Gabby would be a Legend even if he was never part of a cup-winning team for me.
He has come through some pretty torrid times (the infamous "not being booed when subbed" incident for example) and has produced time and time again - his exploits against Small Heath just add to this...
I think Gabby suffers from the dad coaching the team syndrome. You know, your dad is harder on you when you're below par and is your biggest fan all in one. He is awesome on his day, today being one of those days and has been very good all season so far.
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Gabby is the epitome of a big game player, time and time again he's done it in our biggest games of the season's and now when were in a bit of transition he's been the guy thats lead by example, I wonder if he'll ever captain us? Fair enough he's not the brightest off the pitch but on the pitch he has a decent footballing brain, his name never crops up when were discussing potential captains though.
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For me it would have to be a few of the lads from the early eighties squad, probably being a tad biest there as one is a personal friend and know another through him,
Ian Taylor, solid.
Tony Morely, at times brilliant
Paul McGrath, A Natural Commander, a real lion
Gary Shaw, another player who had he realised his full potential would have been World Class IMO.
Of all those players with the exception of McGrath they all passed on and became legends over time.
Gabby Agbonlahor freakin legendary right now, but lets face it there have been a good few really wonderfully talented players slip through the clubs fingers.
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Gabby is the epitome of a big game player, time and time again he's done it in our biggest games of the season's and now when were in a bit of transition he's been the guy thats lead by example, I wonder if he'll ever captain us? Fair enough he's not the brightest off the pitch but on the pitch he has a decent footballing brain, his name never crops up when were discussing potential captains though.
Such a good post this, I feel where Gabby is concerned when he takes to the pitch we are in the presence of a real potentially world class of a player, when I look at Gabby I get the same buzz when he has the ball that i get when i look at Messi or Ronaldo or Rooney, not saying for one minute he's in that class, but you feel something might happen explosive if he has a mind to.
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After Gabby's great display today and his exclellent attitude all season I got to thinking "is he a Villa Legend yet"?
This set me off thinking what makes a Legend at this club?
God? Superb player up against the odds with a touch of naughtiness
Sid? Sublime skill; always trying; returned to us and did well
Withey? Iconic centre-forward who gave his all and scored "that goal" (but played down the road!)
Tayls? Just one of us (still is) who was honest and tried and tried for the cause
What makes a Legend for you and is Gabby there yet?
Scoring a winning goal in the European Cup final or todays equivalent will help.
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every player involved in winning the league title and european cup is a legend
After that Mcgrath Laursen Melberg Daley then I struggle lots of greats Yorke and Barry would be there but they left leaving a bad taste in the mouth.
Gabby could reach legend status.
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Imo a player, in order to become a Villa legend, must:
- play for Villa for at least 4 seasons;
- have a special talent;
- show a special committment to the claret and blue shirt;
- possibly win at least one major trophy;
- have the capability to win the games by himself with a masterstroke or with a special performance when the rest of the team is having a poor performance.
I'd say tha Gabby still is not a Villa legend but, yes, he can become it.
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I wouldn't give legendary status easily.No way on this earth is Petrov a legend,he's been an average player picking up amazing wages for being mr average.Your legends are players who have won medals(at least one) and played season after season after season.Mcgrath,Cowans,Mortimer and more.Gabby not yet I'm afraid!
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If you're talked about by those who never saw you, you're a legend.
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Villa legends (for me anyway) in the last 5 years or so:
- Martin Laursen
- Olof Mellberg
- Juan Puablo Angel
- Gareth Barry (boo)
- Gabby Agbonlahor
- Brad Friedel
- Stiliyan Petrov
For me, it's players who are both greatly talented, and clearly care a lot for the club. I know there is probably slight controversy over Gareth Barry, but for me he did so much for the club it's hard to exclude him, despite the manner of his departure.
No where near.
Gabby, possibly....but not yet.
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Petrov?
Christ almighty. Don't get me wrong, i like him, but how far have we fallen - or how young would you have to be - for Stan to be considered a legend?
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Barry and Angel don't qualify either I'm afraid.
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None of that list qualify.
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Laursen surely must be the closest. He is the best defender to play for us since God. Defiantly the only defender I have seen in the flesh since McGrath to have me thinking as I left Villa Park that I have just seen a performance worthy of legendary status. The guy was awesome. If it was not for his injury's there would be no doubt about it.
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What makes a Villa legend?
Your age and your frame of reference.
And nothing else.
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You can always create the legend status; as posted elsewhere..
Gabby Agbonlahor wants to take another step towards a historic scoring record this weekend - and knock Dwight Yorke off top spot in the goal charts.
Agbonlahor currently lies second in the all-time Villa Premier League chart with 51 goals, nine behind the Calypso King."
Make that now seven.
It would be great if we had on the Holte a 'counter' banner, showing the number of goals Gabby has scored until he breaks Yorke's record.
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I'd also say that winning a trophy isn't a massive factor either. Or is everyone who played in the 94 & 96 LC Finals classed as a legend? And more of one than say, Platt, who won the square root of smeg all while at VP? Or Pongo?
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I reckon unless he does something majorly wrong Gabby will be looked up as a legend by a good number of people in the future.
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Imo a player, in order to become a Villa legend, must:
- play for Villa for at least 4 seasons;
- have a special talent;
- show a special committment to the claret and blue shirt;
- possibly win at least one major trophy;
- have the capability to win the games by himself with a masterstroke or with a special performance when the rest of the team is having a poor performance.
I'd say tha Gabby still is not a Villa legend but, yes, he can become it.
Just supposing Withe had only been at Villa for one season only and had scored that EC winner?
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Legendary status for me is about passion for the club, showing that you care. It also extends to attitude towards the Villa when they leave the club, particularly when they retire. Take David Platt as an example. I loved him when he played for us, he was such a fantastic player. Nowadays it is as though he has erased all things Villa from his CV. He should be a Villa legend but he isn't.
As for Gabby, time will tell. He has the opportunity to be a Villa legend. I hope that he achieves the status.
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Not yet, keep going though, for me Agbonlahor delivers when it matters but he can easily drop off. Needs to be more consistent.
My villa legends are
Macca
Laursen
Ian Taylor
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Gabbys my favourite current player, but the thing is he drifts in and out of form, becoming forgotton at times
We had a thread like this about a year ago I think?
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IMO Macca is the only one in recent times who can be classed as a Villa legend - we all have a story about him whether its first hand or from a friend of a friend, these will only resemble half truth in 50 years, add in his man of the match performances and his genius defensive ability and the kids will talk about this guy like he was a cross between the terminator and ozzy osbourne. I heard they rebuilt his knee with washing machine spares and injected him with Johnny Walker before the 94 league cup final will be one of the popular myths.
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Page 3 and I can't believe nobody has mentioned Sir Brian.
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IMO I can't believe Olof is not on every single list here. He was a long term captain, we had a bloody Sweden day before he left. And buying every single fan a shirt on his last match? Pure class!
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Imo a player, in order to become a Villa legend, must:
- play for Villa for at least 4 seasons;
- have a special talent;
- show a special committment to the claret and blue shirt;
- possibly win at least one major trophy;
- have the capability to win the games by himself with a masterstroke or with a special performance when the rest of the team is having a poor performance.
I'd say tha Gabby still is not a Villa legend but, yes, he can become it.
Just supposing Withe had only been at Villa for one season only and had scored that EC winner?
I think that the goal he scores is a legendary goal, no doubt about this, but it's not enough to make him a Villa legend as player, in my opinion.
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McGrath is the only legend I've seen in a Villa shirt. There's been a few of cult heros since then
I wonder if i'll ever experience that feeling of watching the best player in his position in the world in a Villa shirt ever again.
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McGrath is the only legend I've seen in a Villa shirt. There's been a few of cult heros since then
I wonder if i'll ever experience that feeling of watching the best player in his position in the world in a Villa shirt ever again.
I know it's not the same but there are few keepers better than Shay IMO. Over his career I think he has been one of the best, probably just behind Schmeichel in the all time best Prem keepers.
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I wouldn't give legendary status easily.No way on this earth is Petrov a legend,he's been an average player picking up amazing wages for being mr average.Your legends are players who have won medals(at least one) and played season after season after season.Mcgrath,Cowans,Mortimer and more.Gabby not yet I'm afraid!
And neither are Mellberg and Laursen Villa legends. Christ some of us on here must be easily pleased to class that pair as legends.
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Ian Taylor. A player who relished the chance to move to the team he supported and you sensed the pleasure he had when playing with the AVFC shirt on. Although perhaps not as gifted as some players, his graft, his desire to get in the opponents box and the fact you felt he always gave 100% means he should be considered.
I remember not so long back he was a pundit for a Radio WM Villa game, and he was talking about the future Villa players he had seen whilst watching recent reserve games.
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Being scottish and regularly kicking a couple of opposition defenders into the ground to give you a bit of room in the area to bullet a cross in off your bald head is a good prerequisite to qualify as a Villa legend.
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I think the word 'Legend' has lost all meaning nowadays as it seems it can be applied to anyone.
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Shaw
Withe
Morley
Taylor
Aitken
Little
McGrath
Walker
Cowans
McParland
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Shaw
Withe
Morley
Taylor
Aitken
Little
McGrath
Walker
Cowans
McParland
Out of interest, what makes Shaw and Morley legends but not Mortimer or Evans?
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The eye of the beholder. Hero-worshp from my youth.
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The eye of the beholder. Hero-worshp from my youth.
Good enough answer for me. It's why i'd have Evans as a legend but not Morley.
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The eye of the beholder.
Very nicely put.
I wouldn't have wanted anyone to tell the ten-year old me that Dean Saunders and Tony Daley weren't Villa legends.
In much the same way that I wouldn't want to tell a 20 year old that Juan Pablo Angel isn't a Villa legend or a 10 year old that Darren Bent isn't.
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The eye of the beholder.
Very nicely put.
I wouldn't have wanted anyone to tell the ten-year old me that Dean Saunders and Tony Daley weren't Villa legends.
In much the same way that I wouldn't want to tell a 20 year old that Juan Pablo Angel isn't a Villa legend or a 10 year old that Darren Bent isn't.
Nice post.
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The eye of the beholder.
Very nicely put.
I wouldn't have wanted anyone to tell the ten-year old me that Dean Saunders and Tony Daley weren't Villa legends.
In much the same way that I wouldn't want to tell a 20 year old that Juan Pablo Angel isn't a Villa legend or a 10 year old that Darren Bent isn't.
Quite. It's subjective isn't it. I heard some lads singing the Gary Shaw (when he hits the ball he's sure to score etc) song on Saturday. Shaw is the epitome of a legend for me having been a little kid when he was in his pomp.
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Maybe we confuse the difference between a Villa legend and a personal hero/favourite? For example, Tony Daley was a personal Villa fave for me, but never a Villa legend.
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Same as Paul Merson for me. Also Martin Laursen, Olof Mellberg, Gareth Southgate...
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I imagine Gabby is a 'favourite' with a considerable percentage of supporters but as for 'legend' status
he has some way to go, but if he continues putting in match winning performances like yesterday he will
be remembered in many years to come -
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I think the word 'Legend' has lost all meaning nowadays as it seems it can be applied to anyone.
This was in my mind when I started the thread. Legend or Holte End Hero?
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The word legend is over-used. Gabby's not a legend. If he continues his current form and remains loyal to Villa for years to come, he could become one in time. Our outstanding team of 1981/82 contained many legends. McGrath was a legend. Since the turn of this century I would say only Mellberg is fitting of such a status.
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Ian Taylor?
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George Boatang upon his move to Villasborough said he could move, or stay and become a Villa Legend. The only end he would be is a leg end
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Dean Saunders and Savo Milosevic both scored winning goals in League Cup Finals. Both are legends to me. Same as Dalian, Taylor and Yorkie. David Platt was the best player in the league for two years running in 1989-91 and when was the last time we boasted a midfielder that scored 20 + goals - two years running. Legend.
I wouldnt class Angel as a legend, two decent seasons out of 5 or 6 and very hot and cold. Mellberg..... perhaps. Laursen........if Laursen is a legend then the god that is Shaun Teale must definitely apply - he played through the 94 league cup win with a broken nose did he not?
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Imo a player, in order to become a Villa legend, must:
- have a special talent;
Great - Does this mean 'soul man' Nobby Solano's in the running with his jazz trumpet?
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As another posted, it's all subjective and dependent on how each fan judges a player. Anyone who gives 100% throughout their time here and never does anything but praise the club would be enough for me. A year when a keeper saves us from relegation, a striker fires us to cup glory, or heaven forbid a manager gets us playing great winning football could all be legends.
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During my time as a fan I have seen many good players and a handful of great players wear the claret blue. The players, though, that I would describe as legendry are few and far between.
To be a legend you need to have something indeterminable, but it is not necessarily about ability. A legend will have a page to themselves in the significant chapters of the club’s history. So, for me, Andy Lochhead is a legend for his talismanic leading of the line during the first steps in the club’s 70s rebirth. That doesn’t alter the fact that I’ve probably seen at least a dozen better centre forwards wearing the shirt, but Andy had the je ne sais quoi that a legend requires.
A legend transcends the normal fan-player relationship. A legend’s achievements are exalted, recalled, retold and passed on to the next generation of supporters; their failings as players or people are glossed over. They have such an affinity with the fans that it means that even when they move on elsewhere they are always thought of as a Villa player.
So here are the players who I watched and I consider as legends:
Andy Lochhead
Bruce Rioch
Brian Little
Dennis Mortimer
Gordon Cowans
Peter Withe
Gary Shaw
Nigel Spink
Paul McGrath
Dwight Yorke
Ian Taylor
I would also add Andy Gray and David Platt to that list but for the ongoing bitterness caused by their departures.
Of the present players, probably only Gabby has the raw material to become a legend, but he needs to add the one defining season to his CV. A goal-in-every-round to go with the FA Cup winners’ medal would sort that nicely…
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Nigel Spink will always be a legend to me for that extraordinary performance on 26th May 1982, even if he'd never played another game for Villa.
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It appears to me that the only players remembered fondly years after they've left us are those who don't move on to better teams and better money. Villa fans, more than most I feel, turn instantly against players who have the nerve to try and better themselves.
So to ever be talked about as a legend Gabby will have to have a few more good years with us then either take a move abroad or a move down the English ladder.
When I look back at players like Andy Gray, Platty, Yorke and Barry they were all special players when they were with us - yet their reputations went downhill with most of our fans because they took upward moves (in Gray's case only financially upwards).
Alan McInally and Sid moved abroad rather than to a rival, so remained popular afterwards.
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It appears to me that the only players remembered fondly years after they've left us are those who don't move on to better teams and better money. Villa fans, more than most I feel, turn instantly against players who have the nerve to try and better themselves.
So to ever be talked about as a legend Gabby will have to have a few more good years with us then either take a move abroad or a move down the English ladder.
When I look back at players like Andy Gray, Platty, Yorke and Barry they were all special players when they were with us - yet their reputations went downhill with most of our fans because they took upward moves (in Gray's case only financially upwards).
Alan McInally and Sid moved abroad rather than to a rival, so remained popular afterwards.
I hated Andy Gray with a passion at the time he left Villa but I'd still rate him a Villa legend.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tony Hateley. 68 goals in 126 matches.
In 65/66 we were 5-1 down to Spurs and he scored 4 second half goals to bring it back to 5-5.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tony Hateley. 68 goals in 126 matches.
In 65/66 we were 5-1 down to Spurs and he scored 4 second half goals to bring it back to 5-5.
It's generally reckoned that for some reason he was never very popular.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tony Hateley. 68 goals in 126 matches.
In 65/66 we were 5-1 down to Spurs and he scored 4 second half goals to bring it back to 5-5.
It's generally reckoned that for some reason he was never very popular.
Playing for Coventry and Blues. That'll do it. And ducking out before Villa got relegated in 67. My dad and grandad were incandescent about him at the time.
Imagine the Villa having a bad start to the season and a major player moving away to Chelsea in January. (that's the nearest in present day terms - only it was October, even earlier in the season!) That's why he's not popular with me. Oooh, it's like it was yesterday. Not that I'm bitter. Actually I was ...well, little.
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tony Hateley. 68 goals in 126 matches.
In 65/66 we were 5-1 down to Spurs and he scored 4 second half goals to bring it back to 5-5.
It's generally reckoned that for some reason he was never very popular.
Playing for Coventry and Blues. That'll do it. And ducking out before Villa got relegated in 67. My dad and grandad were incandescent about him at the time.
Imagine the Villa having a bad start to the season and a major player moving away to Chelsea in January. (that's the nearest in present day terms - only it was October, even earlier in the season!) That's why he's not popular with me. Oooh, it's like it was yesterday. Not that I'm bitter. Actually I was ...well, little.
So the fact that the incompetents running the club at the time were in deep financial doo doo and the only way to stave off financial ruin was to sell the clubs only real asset on the playing side had nothing to do with him being sold to Chelsea for £100,000.
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In reality there are probably only a handfull of true legends. Having been around long enough to witness the league/euro triumphs and God I feel reasonably qualified to comment.
But I believe there are legends in all the era's if you look. For me JPA will always be a legend because he ensured that my son will be Villa forever after the league cup display/goal v Chelsea. He still follows Villa and always talks fondly of us. May not be enough to be a legend in most peoples eyes but for me it is.
And, don't shoot me but for me so is Merse. At a time when we werent exactly pulling up trees he was just so exciting to watch, you never knew what he was going to do with the ball.
Guess i'm easily pleased, but these are the type of players who can cement a young person into the faith, doesn't that alone deserve them to be legends?
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How about some non playing people who gave sterling service to the club? Can they be counted as legends?
William McGregor.
George Ramsay Secretary/Manager 6 FA Cups 6 League Championships.
Ron Saunders/Tony Barton.
Steve Stride. An excellent club secretary. One black mark, he was on the three man FA panel that sanctioned Wimbledon's move to MK.
We may not sing songs about them (apart from Ron) but they all played their part in helping to make the club what it is.
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EuroCup heroes Cowans, Morley, Bremner, McNaught & Gibson playing for Old Stars Sunday @ Rushall Olympic FC - WS4 1LJ - KO 2pm - RT!!
Win something like those guys?
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tony Hateley. 68 goals in 126 matches.
In 65/66 we were 5-1 down to Spurs and he scored 4 second half goals to bring it back to 5-5.
It's generally reckoned that for some reason he was never very popular.
Playing for Coventry and Blues. That'll do it. And ducking out before Villa got relegated in 67. My dad and grandad were incandescent about him at the time.
Imagine the Villa having a bad start to the season and a major player moving away to Chelsea in January. (that's the nearest in present day terms - only it was October, even earlier in the season!) That's why he's not popular with me. Oooh, it's like it was yesterday. Not that I'm bitter. Actually I was ...well, little.
So the fact that the incompetents running the club at the time were in deep financial doo doo and the only way to stave off financial ruin was to sell the clubs only real asset on the playing side had nothing to do with him being sold to Chelsea for £100,000.
I don't remember challenging the family authorities on all things Villa at the time, no!
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Petrov and Friedel?
Fuck me
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How about some non playing people who gave sterling service to the club? Can they be counted as legends?
William McGregor.
George Ramsay Secretary/Manager 6 FA Cups 6 League Championships.
Ron Saunders/Tony Barton.
Steve Stride. An excellent club secretary. One black mark, he was on the three man FA panel that sanctioned Wimbledon's move to MK.
We may not sing songs about them (apart from Ron) but they all played their part in helping to make the club what it is.
For me Ramsay is THE legend of the Villa. Obviously wasn't around at the time but from what I can tell he was the main reason we didn't go the way of the numerous other Brum teams of pre-league football and made us the pre-eminent force we were during his (very long) stint as secretary. Wonder what he'd make of things now.
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Petrov and Friedel?
Fuck me
You're not their type.
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Nigel Spink will always be a legend to me for that extraordinary performance on 26th May 1982, even if he'd never played another game for Villa.
Great shout. Sometimes 1 match can make you a legend. This was real Roy of the Rovers stuff. Or should I say Safest Hands in Soccer!
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What makes a Villa Legend? - Is the answer plastercine?
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What makes a Villa Legend? - Is the answer plastercine?
It's alright: I've already got a taxi on the way ...
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Imagine the Villa having a bad start to the season and a major player moving away to Chelsea in January...
Thought you were going to mention Darren Bent there for a minute, Louise!
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Imagine the Villa having a bad start to the season and a major player moving away to Chelsea in January...
Thought you were going to mention Darren Bent there for a minute, Louise!
God - it never crossed my mind, but surely he and Gabby are happy in a mutually fulfilling relationship? So that's the difference. Phew!
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Like has already mentioned I think it boils down to the individuals memory's. Personally I'd class Alan Wright as a legend, my memories of him are of wonder strikes, terrier like tenacity and a photo of him out jumping Tony Adams like a small baldy salmon. My memory might be hazy but in my eyes more of a legend than some of our greats. Who I have utmost respect for but who I never saw play, and have no emotional connection to.
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Gabby not yet a legend in my view. The word is bandied around quite a lot these days. He could be if he improves year on year and I sincerely hope he does become one. One of the few players I could see staying with us if he does become a great player, although whether thats me being naive or not, I leave to others.
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How about some non playing people who gave sterling service to the club? Can they be counted as legends?
William McGregor.
George Ramsay Secretary/Manager 6 FA Cups 6 League Championships.
Ron Saunders/Tony Barton.
Steve Stride. An excellent club secretary. One black mark, he was on the three man FA panel that sanctioned Wimbledon's move to MK.
We may not sing songs about them (apart from Ron) but they all played their part in helping to make the club what it is.
Terry Weir