Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on September 27, 2011, 03:39:24 PM
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Thought this was a very good piece by Mat Kendrick, particularly about the lining up to stick the boot into Houllier recently.
Aston Villa: Barry Bannan steps forward as dressing room shirks responsibility
PENALTY scorer Barry Bannan has boldly volunteered to become Villa’s designated taker – responsibility taker, that is.
Bannan’s success from the spot for his first Premier League goal in Sunday’s draw at Queens Park Rangers underlined the young Scot’s willingness to stand up and be counted.
It is an example his claret and blue colleagues would do well to follow during the formative stages of Alex McLeish’s tenure and beyond, instead of passing the buck as proficiently as Bannan passes the ball.
It’s not only the 21-year-old’s nerve from 12 yards which puts some of his more experienced team-mates to shame. Bannan has been just as mature on the spot as from the spot, becoming the voice of the Villa dressing room during the sticky, but not disastrous start.
‘Wee Baz’ was the only player to speak publicly after the respectively pathetic and patchy performances against Bolton in the Carling Cup and QPR in the Premier League last week. It is a task he has accepted with good manners, honesty and humility.
While most of the Villa players went missing following, as well as during, the cup exit, Bannan, one of the better players against the Trotters, fronted up to deliver an apology on behalf of the dressing room.
Bannan also swallowed his disappointment to speak eloquently and with authority after the draw at Loftus Road last weekend, his excitement at scoring tempered by his anguish at Villa’s late concession.
McLeish is crying out for this type of desire from his players to put themselves forward and take responsibility on the pitch and around the football club as he gets to grips with the pressures of managing Villa.
If McLeish is to be in the firing line – and let’s face it, he most certainly is – then it would be helpful if Villa’s senior pros also put their heads above the parapet to share the flak occasionally during and after depressing defeats or draws, rather than only surfacing to revel in the glory of rare victories.
In Stiliyan Petrov’s defence, the captain – and Bannan’s mentor and role model – can usually be relied upon to be held to account win, lose or draw, but there aren’t too many of his clubmates, young Barry aside, prepared to do likewise.
Fans will be astonished that it took a stinging reminder from McLeish on Sunday evening to point out that Premier League footballers should be inspired rather than inhibited by playing this great game.
Perhaps it’s because previously they’ve been far too happy to play the blame game instead. In recent weeks, Villa’s stars have been lining up to criticise Gerard Houllier for all of last season’s ills, conveniently forgetting the parts they had to play in a 2009-10 campaign to forget.
There’s no doubt the French fall guy is significantly culpable for the fall-outs which prompted the club’s fall from grace last season, but it takes two to tangle.
It’s a bit like Bannan laying at the former manager’s door the liability for everything from a mis-hit shot to failing his driving test.
He won’t do it.
Bannan believes he personally could have done more during his breakthrough season with the senior squad, and accepts that any shortcomings were his fault rather than Houllier’s.
Equally he knows his standards must stay high if he is to enjoy a prolonged run in the first team this term and accepts he will only have himself to blame if his performance level dips and he loses his place.
Oh for more similarly self aware professional football players.
If McLeish is to avoid joining his predecessor counting his compensation in the foreseeable future, then his players need to pull their fingers out rather than point them accusingly at the latest scapegoat in the dugout.
The manager picks the team and sets out the system and, as at every club, debates over his choices of personnel, philosophy and formation will rumble on indefinitely.
So they should until McLeish hits upon a successful formula for entertaining winning football.
But believe it or not, the manager doesn’t tell his players to go out and perform abysmally.
It was interesting to hear the new boss admit his players seemed gripped by fear during their latest first half no-show on Sunday.
This is a problem of Villa’s own making. Any setbacks will be magnified ten-fold because of who their manager is, where he’s come from and the blue blots on his copybook.
This was the risk the club were running when, with open-eyes and open-minds, they chose to appoint McLeish.
Yet, the players cannot, must not, use the Eck factor as an excuse for under-performing to the embarrassing level against Bolton and in the first half at QPR.
They should be proud and professional enough to do their jobs, regardless of the high-scrutiny sideshow which has rolled into town from across the Second City.
Chances are Darren Bent will be back on penalty duty when Villa return to action against Wigan at Villa Park this weekend. But when it comes to taking responsibility Barry Bannan’s should not be the only hand in the air from now on.
http://tinyurl.com/3grmgor
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I think this paragraph was particularly salient.
Perhaps it’s because previously they’ve been far too happy to play the blame game instead. In recent weeks, Villa’s stars have been lining up to criticise Gerard Houllier for all of last season’s ills, conveniently forgetting the parts they had to play in a 2009-10 campaign to forget.
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Can we now get someone to come forward and take our corners. Petrov's against QPR were embarrassing. Talk about beat the first man, he could't even beat the corner flag. If the club agree to sell our set piece players, then train others into doing the job.
Why doesn't Bannan take these, as he isn't gonna win nowt in the box.
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That's a very good article, and in my opinion Bannan is one of the few rays of sunshine to pierce the gloom at Villa Park at the moment. If he and Ireland can combine like they did second half against QPR on a regular basis, then the improved defence should see us have a decent season.
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Nice article that. Agree with it all.
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21 years of age and showing more football maturity than those around him with far more experience.
Early days I know but the signs are very encouraging.
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Needs to be kept in the team and have a run of games,along with Petrov has best football brain in the team.
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He is a good prospect just needs to stay away from the nightlife in Brum.
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He is a good prospect just needs to stay away from the nightlife in Brum.
Shouldn't be a problem - it's all shit since they closed The Ritzy anyway!
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Needs to be kept in the team and have a run of games,along with Petrov has best football brain in the team.
Shame Petrov is too slow to keep up with his brain.
Bannan should be first midfielder on the team sheet.
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I read the article earlier and thought it was a change from the normal bland drivel. Interesting that he suggests history has been rewritten a little bit with GH taking all the blame for last season and the players being given a clean slate but questions whether those same players will use AM's lack of popularity the same as they did Houllier's if it starts going wrong again this season.
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I read the article earlier and thought it was a change from the normal bland drivel.
Indeed.
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Bannan reminds me so much of Gordon Cowans - if he can be half the player he was, he will still be cracking for us. He is going to be big this season, just hope that does't mean he will be off to Manure at the end of it.
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Needs to be kept in the team and have a run of games,along with Petrov has best football brain in the team.
Shame Petrov is too slow to keep up with his brain.
Bannan should be first midfielder on the team sheet.
The lesson of Albrighton last season shows the danger of that attitude. Very good player but don't put oo much on him too soon.
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Bannan reminds me so much of Gordon Cowans - if he can be half the player he was, he will still be cracking for us. He is going to be big this season, just hope that does't mean he will be off to Manure at the end of it.
Let's not go over the top. Bannan looks good in patches, but he loses the ball too much for me. This seems to be conveniently ignored by many on here.
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Needs to be kept in the team and have a run of games,along with Petrov has best football brain in the team.
Shame Petrov is too slow to keep up with his brain.
Bannan should be first midfielder on the team sheet.
The lesson of Albrighton last season shows the danger of that attitude. Very good player but don't put oo much on him too soon.
Good point, although Bannan is a different type of character, more considered, however he's still learning his trade.
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I think the analogy to GC stands and it is one I have already expressed.
The main reason he reminded me of Cowans was that a lot of his passing was ahead of his team mates. I remember Gordon having the same problem in the first couple of seasons-he would make the passes only for his team mate not to expect he would be capable of doing this. It eventually changed as they began to anticipate how the ball would be played.
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He reminds me a bit of Archie Gemmell, he too had the heart of a lion as well as being vertically challenged.
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For some reason that I haven't quite worked out, and its naff all to do with the waistline, but Frannie Lee springs to mind.
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I think this paragraph was particularly salient.
Perhaps it’s because previously they’ve been far too happy to play the blame game instead. In recent weeks, Villa’s stars have been lining up to criticise Gerard Houllier for all of last season’s ills, conveniently forgetting the parts they had to play in a 2009-10 campaign to forget.
Personally I thought the 10-11 campaign was the one to forget. <wink>
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He reminds me a bit of Archie Gemmell, he too had the heart of a lion as well as being vertically challenged.
And Gordon Strachan as well.
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Bannan reminds me so much of Gordon Cowans - if he can be half the player he was, he will still be cracking for us. He is going to be big this season, just hope that does't mean he will be off to Manure at the end of it.
Let's not go over the top. Bannan looks good in patches, but he loses the ball too much for me. This seems to be conveniently ignored by many on here.
I'm sure Sid wasn't the finished article at 20-21 and used to give the ball as well. But I might be wrong as he was before my time at those ages and I only saw him in the second spell with us.
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That's it now...Fergie will be sniffing around Villa park for wee Barry.
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That's it now...Fergie will be sniffing around Villa park for wee Barry.
There's already been rumours of that.
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Meh...I was expecting the bigging-up of Bananaman would lead in to an interview and extensive quotes from the man himself.
Just many more paragraphs with observations most of the balanced posters on here could come out with.
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Meh...I was expecting the bigging-up of Bananaman would lead in to an interview and extensive quotes from the man himself.
Just many more paragraphs with observations most of the balanced posters on here could come out with.
With all due respect to the balanced posters on here, Kendrick is a little bit closer to the goings-on at Villa Park and his words thus carries a bit more weight. By the way, I think the 'Houllier was a disaster'-brigade should note that the journalists who followed the club closely last season are reluctant to stick the knife in the Frenchman, but feels it's more pertinent to ask what role the players had in last season's downfall. Maybe that's water under the bridge, but as noted in the article, if we hit a bad spell, the players may once more find it convenient to blame the manager. And this season even more people will be prepared to believe them.
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He is a good prospect just needs to stay away from the nightlife in Brum.
Shouldn't be a problem - it's all shit since they closed The Ritzy anyway!
He's 21, he should be at the O2 every friday (though hopefully not, his beautiful passing would probably start going astray on saturdays)
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He is a good prospect just needs to stay away from the nightlife in Brum.
Shouldn't be a problem - it's all shit since they closed The Ritzy anyway!
He's 21, he should be at the O2 every friday (though hopefully not, his beautiful passing would probably start going astray on saturdays)
never did George Best any harm
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Apart from being responsible for his career basically being over by the time he was 28, causing him to steal money to buy alcohol, multiple drink driving offences, liver problems and eventually killing him?
No harm at all! *winky*
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If we sell Bannan in the next year or so it really would make me wonder what the point is.
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I like him. I'm not sure this is his season though. probably rather go with the nutcase for now. Another season of regular starts and subs and he could be something special
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Bannan is a good player. He's not a great player by any stretch yet, and he's going to have a spell where things aren't happening for him. We all got excited by Marco last year too and he's had some difficulty finding his form again. It happens to young kids, and they need to find a way to fight through it. AM is going to drop/rotate/rest Bannan at some point and as fans we have accept that because it is good for his development. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
That's a pretty solid article too, and I said at the time Gabby was firing bullets at Houllier that all of the players need to be accountable for what happened last term. Clearly GH/GM had a lot to do with it, but as pros they have to get on with it. Maybe there simply wasn't enough strong characters to say the right things when it mattered most last season, and things just got worse. It's good to see Bannan seemingly having the type of character we are going to need at the club if we are to compete during the season.
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Good article, Bannan wants it, it is plain for all to see. He believes in his ability. compare his attitude to Fonz Albrighton et al and you can see the difference. He is young he is going to fcuk up occaisionally, so what.
The most exiting prospect for years. That pass to put Albrighton through against Fulham last season was genious.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
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Sounds like future Captain material to me, if he can start transferring his attitude to his team-mates then give him the armband soon I say!
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Good article, Bannan wants it, it is plain for all to see. He believes in his ability. compare his attitude to Fonz Albrighton et al and you can see the difference. He is young he is going to fcuk up occaisionally, so what.
The most exiting prospect for years. That pass to put Albrighton through against Fulham last season was genious.
It was indeed, the one he played to Downing at home to Man Utd last season almost had me wanking in the stand.
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I hope we can feature him as much as possible. He can hold his own, and I feel players like him can only get better with more matches. Though, at his current ability he may not always be appropriate to play. He's proud to wear the shirt, and will gladly come off the bench. He's got a good head on him, something that can't be said of all our players. He may be a bit young and naive, but I want to see him in a Villa shirt for a long time.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
Toronto, he's been out on loan twice already, he dose'nt need to go out again.
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Like one or two others on here I think that in Bannan we could have another Sid on our hands. Not only is his passing ability getting better, like Sid when the need arises he will get his head down and do some of the hard graft needed from him at times.
I remember seeing Sid play long before he became the finished article and he did have some poor games. Fortunately at that time we could afford the luxury of keeping him playing. In today's football climate where every one seems to want instant success, if Bannan has a couple of bad games will he be given the same latitude that was shown to Sid? I hope so.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
It's utterly pointless comparing our youth players to those of Manchester United, as they have world class players all over the pitch, and can afford to loan their players out far more than we can. As Clampy says, Bannan has already had two loan spells, and as we're not exactly spoilt for choice in central midfield, sending out arguably our most promising youngster, and the one player who actually appears to have a bit of fighting spirit would indeed be absolute lunacy.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
These players are in their twenties, if they cannot step up now then there is something wrong.
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I think AM will drop him on Saturday to bring in JJ, Ireland to drop out for Bent. Shame as I was looking forward to seeing Wee Baz go on a scoring run.
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That's it now...Fergie will be sniffing around Villa park for wee Barry.
There's already been rumours of that.
I would hope that we'd get a few more seasons out of him before he goes. Then when he does go Man Utd can pay decent money for him. I guess it's too much to hope Fergie retires in the meantime and Manure switch targets.
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It would be a very strange move to drop him after his ringing endorsment after Sunday's game, I can't see it happening. If he is to accomodate JJ then Delph is the most likely candidate to make way but I don't see that either and expect to see JJ on the bench with Ireland stepping down to accomodate Bent.
By rights Zog should be left out.
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Barry has a big future at the Villa I liked the way he plays his passing is first class and you can see that he wants to succeed I just hope he keeps his place in the team now were he can develop better by playing in the first team instead of coming off the bench for the odd 20 mins.
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I've started thinking I'd actually like to see ireland get more game time because I think it brings the best out of Bannan having another canny midfielder in the side who's looking to make similar runs and play the sort of balls we want to see him doing.
Could be our very own Xavi and Iniesta ;)
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I'm basing that on AM's comments in yesterday's Mail about protecting him from too much pressure and also the fact he's nearly always substituted in most of his starts.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
It's utterly pointless comparing our youth players to those of Manchester United, as they have world class players all over the pitch, and can afford to loan their players out far more than we can. As Clampy says, Bannan has already had two loan spells, and as we're not exactly spoilt for choice in central midfield, sending out arguably our most promising youngster, and the one player who actually appears to have a bit of fighting spirit would indeed be absolute lunacy.
you must have missed the bit where I said if we had the luxury to do so.
This is the same conversation we could all have been having about Albrighton last season, and he's struggled since all of the hype. Now, if Bannan plays like this for the next few games then he might be something. Usually only the very best kids like Rooney or Gerrard come in like they belong at the very top level and sustain it. We don't have enough evidence to say that yet about Bannan, so as much as I'm delighted he's playing well, we have to also measure that against the fact that the established players haven't shown their full potential either. A lot of people were getting excited over Delph a few weeks back, and now you see a number of negative comments about him. I hope that doesn't happen to Bannan if or when he hits a sticky patch. We've had far too many false dawns with our kids at Villa. Let's hope my cynicism is unfounded on this occasion.
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A lot of people were getting excited over Delph a few weeks back, and now you see a number of negative comments about him.
Re Delph: People are far too impatient with him. He is not a youngster anymore, but injuries has hampered his progress. That doesn't mean that he'll never make the grade, but it does mean that he'll need time to improve, even if his age suggests that he should be at a higher level. The problem is that our squad is so thin that AM is more or less forced to play him in a position where his inconsistency will be easily noticed.
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"Good" to see that Man U are already being linked with him - lets hope we can get a couple of seasons before he goes there
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A lot of people were getting excited over Delph a few weeks back, and now you see a number of negative comments about him.
Re Delph: People are far too impatient with him. He is not a youngster anymore, but injuries has hampered his progress. That doesn't mean that he'll never make the grade, but it does mean that he'll need time to improve, even if his age suggests that he should be at a higher level. The problem is that our squad is so thin that AM is more or less forced to play him in a position where his inconsistency will be easily noticed.
He's the same age as Bannan, and plays in midfield. Delph has a ton of potential and has shown glimpses of it. Bannan has been the better player of the two over what admittedly is a small sample of games. But as a young player they will make errors and they both play in an influential position where as you said, their inconsistency will be highlighted. Bannan is a better player to watch than Delph because of the incredible range of passes he is capable of so he endears himself to the fans more than Delph would.
I hope that both players develop appropriately as part of successful system at Villa, and because we are a little desperate in that part of the field for consistent talent they aren't overused in what is for both their "proper" first full season in the first team.
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A lot of people were getting excited over Delph a few weeks back, and now you see a number of negative comments about him.
Re Delph: People are far too impatient with him. He is not a youngster anymore, but injuries has hampered his progress. That doesn't mean that he'll never make the grade, but it does mean that he'll need time to improve, even if his age suggests that he should be at a higher level. The problem is that our squad is so thin that AM is more or less forced to play him in a position where his inconsistency will be easily noticed.
He's the same age as Bannan, and plays in midfield. Delph has a ton of potential and has shown glimpses of it. Bannan has been the better player of the two over what admittedly is a small sample of games. But as a young player they will make errors and they both play in an influential position where as you said, their inconsistency will be highlighted. Bannan is a better player to watch than Delph because of the incredible range of passes he is capable of so he endears himself to the fans more than Delph would.
It doesn't help that Delph is being employed in a role that is not natural to him. He isn't really a defensive midfielder.
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It doesn't help that Delph is being employed in a role that is not natural to him. He isn't really a defensive midfielder.
I think AM made a mistake, having so little to spend, signing N'Zogbia. I'd rather he spent the money on Parker or even Palacios. Then we could have played Petrov and Parker/Palacios as defensive midfielders, and played three of Gabby, Albrighton, Delph, Bannan and Ireland in front of them. The team would have been stronger, and it would have been better for Bannan and Delph.
EDIT: Though when Jenas finally is fit, my words will hopefully be put to shame!
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But that would leave three kids, a striker and a nut job to be our offensive midfielders, which would have been as big a problem as having Petrov, Delph, Makoun/Jenas, Herd and Clark for those central sitting roles.
Truth is we needed a holding midfielder AND replacements for Ash and/or Downing, but couldn;t get both!
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But that would leave three kids, a striker and a nut job to be our offensive midfielders, which would have been as big a problem as having Petrov, Delph, Makoun/Jenas, Herd and Clark for those central sitting roles.
Truth is we needed a holding midfielder AND replacements for Ash and/or Downing, but couldn;t get both!
Herd is a Watford player now - sold not on loan, so it leaves even less cover
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Are you thinking of Hogg, Mark H?
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Yep - Hogg went to Watford and Herd is still here.
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Sold Herd to Watford after his man of the match performance last time out? That makes no sense.
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Sold Herd to Watford after his man of the match performance last time out? That makes no sense.
Herd is still here but he's injured at the moment
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Heh. I misread John M'Zog's comment. I thought it said Herd is still THERE...
I'll go back to sleep.
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It doesn't help that Delph is being employed in a role that is not natural to him. He isn't really a defensive midfielder.
I think AM made a mistake, having so little to spend, signing N'Zogbia. I'd rather he spent the money on Parker or even Palacios. Then we could have played Petrov and Parker/Palacios as defensive midfielders, and played three of Gabby, Albrighton, Delph, Bannan and Ireland in front of them. The team would have been stronger, and it would have been better for Bannan and Delph.
EDIT: Though when Jenas finally is fit, my words will hopefully be put to shame!
If we'd have done that our only wide player would be an out of sorts Albrighton.
We maybe could have looked for better value and tried to get a wide player on a smaller fee and wage to leave the balance for a defensive mid. Problem being we would be scraping the quality barrel especially considering the fact we were replacing two twenty million pound players.
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If it's true that the wages are the issue rather than fees, we can maybe look forward to one or more of Heskey, Beye or Cuellar going in Jan as there contracts run down and then Randy realeasing more of the Ash/Downing money for a new midfielder.
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It doesn't help that Delph is being employed in a role that is not natural to him. He isn't really a defensive midfielder.
Dead right. Delph came to us with a reputation as an attacking midfielder, capable of scoring spectacular goals (which he did for Leeds). Because he's a competitive lad and likes a tackle, he's now playing this more defensive role. Which isn't right for him. Without a defensive specialist alongside him (which is why I've wondered whether we shouldn't have Clark in midfield) I think he'll struggle.
Pair him with Jenas though, who is more dynamic and mobile than Petrov, and he and Delph may be able to share the workload better.
I actually think, if Delph was given the kind of free-ish role than Bannan has, we'd see quite a gifted, attacking player.
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Agree with that.
And I think a midfield trio of Petrov, Jenas and Delph will see the shackles taken of him a bit!
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I think young players can benefit in the long run from being asked to play different roles from what is considered their natural position. Delph will be a better player for the experience.
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Are you thinking of Hogg, Mark H?
Yes I am sorry
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
These players are in their twenties, if they cannot step up now then there is something wrong.
Exactly
As much as we all rate all of our not so young youngsters thay all need to be delivering this year.
I like Bannan but still not sure, if he can play regularly this season they I will have a better idea.
As far as United watching him and Alex ferguson I don't believe that for a minute
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
These players are in their twenties, if they cannot step up now then there is something wrong.
Exactly
As much as we all rate all of our not so young youngsters thay all need to be delivering this year.
I like Bannan but still not sure, if he can play regularly this season they I will have a better idea.
As far as United watching him and Alex ferguson I don't believe that for a minute
Players develop at different ages and paces. Deco and Pirlo were nowhere at Bannan's age, whereas Christian Vieri petered out at 27 (not that that stopped him). You can only really judge properly at the end of a player's career.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
These players are in their twenties, if they cannot step up now then there is something wrong.
Exactly
As much as we all rate all of our not so young youngsters thay all need to be delivering this year.
I like Bannan but still not sure, if he can play regularly this season they I will have a better idea.
As far as United watching him and Alex ferguson I don't believe that for a minute
Players develop at different ages and paces. Deco and Pirlo were nowhere at Bannan's age, whereas Christian Vieri petered out at 27 (not that that stopped him). You can only really judge properly at the end of a player's career.
Spot on.
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Has anyone seen the ''highlights'' on avtv of Bannan co-commentating with Woodward on the Fenerbache game? The sychophancy of that eejit (Jack) is cringe-inducing.
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Woodward: What's your favourite movie then Bazz? I'm trying to think back to what you said in the Q&A we did in the summer. Was it....Shawshank Redemption?
Bananaman: Er...might have been...could have been...probably.
Woodward: It's worrying, I know what your interests are better than you do.
Bannan: I know...scary, that.
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Woodward: What's your favourite movie then Bazz? I'm trying to think back to what you said in the Q&A we did in the summer. Was it....Shawshank Redemption?
Bananaman: Er...might have been...could have been...probably.
Woodward: It's worrying, I know what your interests are better than you do.
Bannan: I know...scary, that.
I think you haven't grasped Bannan's Scottish accent eamonn, the line went...
" I know...f****** t***".
I think Woodward is okay really.
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This lad Bannan has a little bit of class about him,reminds me of Sid...
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Yes.
And like most of the young players who come through the ranks, he has a 'feel' for the place. Unlike some of the older lot, who are on far more money and are far less committed.
It's unworkable to have the bulk of the first team made up of Acadamy graduates, I accept that. And starting out with us doesn't automatically ensure they can't/ won't do a Barry when the situation arises. But the more you have around the place, the better the team dynamic. Particularly with characters like Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Herd.
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Yes.
And like most of the young players who come through the ranks, he has a 'feel' for the place. Unlike some of the older lot, who are on far more money and are far less committed.
It's unworkable to have the bulk of the first team made up of Acadamy graduates, I accept that. And starting out with us doesn't automatically ensure they can't/ won't do a Barry when the situation arises. But the more you have around the place, the better the team dynamic. Particularly with characters like Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Herd.
Agree with the divine perm 100%. It's what I love most as a fan when a young kid comes through the ranks and has some association with us as a club and Brum as an area.
Also agree with Chris Smith's earlier point that it can sometimes benefit a younger player to be played in different positions. A really special player can play anywhere (within reason so not in goal etc). That said, if a young kid is only really effective in one role that doesn't mean they should be scrapped. Marc Albrighton needs a storming game to get some confidence back.
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. It might even be a good thing (granted if our squad was bigger) for him to go on loan like Cleverly or Wellbeck did and get even more playing time.
Why on earth would you think that it is a good idea to put a bloke who has broken into the first team and showed that he has the ability to deliver at this level on loan, lunacy
Just because a young player has broken into the first team it doesn't make him the finished article. If we had the luxury of doing so I'd send Albrighton out on loan too so he can develop at a more steady pace for 6 months or so playing regular football. Clearly, you ignored the examples I cited of players that have gone on loan and come back better players because of it. It's not lunacy, it's just a suggestion.
These players are in their twenties, if they cannot step up now then there is something wrong.
Exactly
As much as we all rate all of our not so young youngsters thay all need to be delivering this year.
I like Bannan but still not sure, if he can play regularly this season they I will have a better idea.
As far as United watching him and Alex ferguson I don't believe that for a minute
Players develop at different ages and paces. Deco and Pirlo were nowhere at Bannan's age, whereas Christian Vieri petered out at 27 (not that that stopped him). You can only really judge properly at the end of a player's career.
Yep, Arsenal must have been delighted that Juventus gave up on Henry. How about Ian Wright as a late bloomer. Bannan and Delph are only just 21 and they might really come into their own in a year or so. Bannan is showing real promise, but to suggest that if they cannot step up "now" there must be something wrong is lunacy.
Note: the word lunacy used in the correct context.
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Agreed TV (also yes, good to see correct use of the word!).
Bannan in the Indy: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/barry-bannan-iniesta-and-messi-prove-height-does-not-matter-2363833.html
Couple of interesting things, notably that his parents sound great and Celtic sound hilariously incompetent.
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Great read that, Monty. Thanks for posting.
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Agreed TV (also yes, good to see correct use of the word!).
Bannan in the Indy: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/barry-bannan-iniesta-and-messi-prove-height-does-not-matter-2363833.html
Couple of interesting things, notably that his parents sound great and Celtic sound hilariously incompetent.
And he thanked Ian Holloway - I wonder how many fans on here would thank Ian Holloway???
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Another Edmund Campion boy (as Gabby).
These good Catholic boys get everywhere!
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
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Quickly becoming one of my favourite players. Fantastic lad.
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"I would live in Birmingham forever. I wouldn't go back home [to Scotland], I've fallen in love with Birmingham, the city."
Hmm... I wonder if he'll be keen to repeat this as often as he can.
He's either changed his opinion of the city and the club dramatically or he wants to give the impression that he has based on his MySpace issues from a few years back.
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And he thanked Ian Holloway - I wonder how many fans on here would thank Ian Holloway???
That was a nice touch and hopefully shows that he has some sort, whats the word, I don't know, moral compass maybe.
Does anyone listen to The Guardian Football Podcast? Barry Glendenning mentioned how good Bannan looks when they were jokingly talking about Anton Ferdinand dishing out some verbals before last week's penalty. They were not specifically talking about Bannan's football ability so it was nice to hear him big up the wee man.
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Played very well today - beginning to handle the full 90 minutes and be influential across the park.
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Barry Bannan steps forward..?
No, Barry Bannan steps up.
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I love this lad!
How long does he have left on his contract?
We need to tie him down for the next 5 years at least, he has star quality and we should not get caught out by him not having a long enough contract.
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I love this lad!
How long does he have left on his contract?
We need to tie him down for the next 5 years at least, he has star quality and we should not get caught out by him not having a long enough contract.
I'm pretty sure he signed a contract last year so he should have a good few years left. I'd guess his current contract is pretty irrelevant as if he demonstrates any sort of form he would get another one to reflect his new status and if he becomes shit then we won't care and he'll be sold.
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If he is as good as some of you think he will be off to a bigger club in the summer anyway
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The guy is special, he has the potential to become a top top player. I just hope we can keep hold of him, players like Bannan do not come along too often.
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If he is as good as some of you think he will be off to a bigger club in the summer anyway
If Randy's new approach to cracking the top four is to develop youngsters and compliment them with astute signings I would be extremely disappointed if we sold any rising star. It would also beg the question just what on earth is the current/long term strategy for success at Villa Park?
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I reckon the current strategy is get money in. Full stop.
What happens next is anyone's guess but if Man U decide Wee Barry is the next Phil Jones or Chris Smalling then he's off to Mancland, like it or like it not.
Modern football is indeed shit.
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I reckon the current strategy is get money in. Full stop.
What happens next is anyone's guess but if Man U decide Wee Barry is the next Phil Jones or Chris Smalling then he's off to Mancland, like it or like it not.
Modern football is indeed shit.
I sincerely hope you are wrong Ger!
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Bannan and Ireland - book it!
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I feel pretty confident in saying that none of the Sky 4, 5 or 6 would sign Bannan.
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If he is as good as some of you think he will be off to a bigger club in the summer anyway
If Randy's new approach to cracking the top four is to develop youngsters and compliment them with astute signings I would be extremely disappointed if we sold any rising star. It would also beg the question just what on earth is the current/long term strategy for success at Villa Park?
There isn't a strategy - RL is only interested in getting the best price for our top players - this will claw back his investment with profit on top, a sort of asset stripping if you like. Let's face it he bought in at £64M and would no doubt 5 years on sell at more than double that - we're just a fixture in his portfolio now ready to be sold off. The guy is ruining Aston Villa's future - Bannan is already being watched elsewhere, next it'll be Gary Gardner.
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Jesus fucking wept, can we not just enjoy watching the wee man play a bit before we all go hell in a handcart?
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Jesus fucking wept, can we not just enjoy watching the wee man play a bit before we all go hell in a handcart?
We enjoyed Downing last year, then he was off, I think we all have cause to worry about our best players leaving.
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Jesus fucking wept, can we not just enjoy watching the wee man play a bit before we all go hell in a handcart?
We enjoyed Downing last year, then he was off, I think we all have cause to worry about our best players leaving.
You may have mate, I thought he was a wishy washy wanky shit out myself.
And why worry about something that may or may not happen in the future? Why not just enjoy what we have now?
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Jesus fucking wept, can we not just enjoy watching the wee man play a bit before we all go hell in a handcart?
We enjoyed Downing last year, then he was off, I think we all have cause to worry about our best players leaving.
You may have mate, I thought he was a wishy washy wanky shit out myself.
And why worry about something that may or may not happen in the future? Why not just enjoy what we have now?
It's that sort of narrow minded view thats put Villa in our current situation.
Oneil didn't care about the future and we are all paying for it now!
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Jesus fucking wept, can we not just enjoy watching the wee man play a bit before we all go hell in a handcart?
That's a bury your head in the sand attitude. Can't you see what RL has done since he took over? Like half of the current England team is made up of ex Villa players sold under his regime. People have a right to feel concerned when all this current regime do is sell our best talent. With that strategy you'll never challenge the top positions in the league.
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Quickly becoming one of my favourite players. Fantastic lad.
Same here, i think he's superb. The ball he played for Bent in the first half which the keeper saved was sublime, and the ball for Gabby's goal was great too. He's the best passer i've seen down there for ages. He does need to keep it simple every now and again, but with experience that will come.
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Jesus fucking wept, can we not just enjoy watching the wee man play a bit before we all go hell in a handcart?
That's a bury your head in the sand attitude. Can't you see what RL has done since he took over? Like half of the current England team is made up of ex Villa players sold under his regime. People have a right to feel concerned when all this current regime do is sell our best talent. With that strategy you'll never challenge the top positions in the league.
That's an injustice to RL. We've sold Young and Downing this summer. Young we new was going as he wasn't going to sign another contract with us, Downing was tapped up and we ended getting twice as much for him than he's worth.
These two sales have nothing to do with RL's strategy. It's just common sense business.
As for Barry and Milner, they went for big money wages. We can't compete with Man City on that front, only two other teams can. The only way we can prevent losing our best players to the vultures is if a player genuinely loves the club, otherwise, money talks. Again, nothing to do with RL's strategy.
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I agree with Leeb, even if I didn't I'd still say I did though
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There isn't a strategy - RL is only interested in getting the best price for our top players - this will claw back his investment with profit on top, a sort of asset stripping if you like. Let's face it he bought in at £64M and would no doubt 5 years on sell at more than double that - we're just a fixture in his portfolio now ready to be sold off. The guy is ruining Aston Villa's future - Bannan is already being watched elsewhere, next it'll be Gary Gardner.
Randy's invested over £200m in the club in the form of loan notes and equity on top of the purchase price he paid for the club. If you think he can claw that back by cashing in on players then you are mistaken.
There's a big difference between balancing the books and asset stripping.
I actually predict he will have increased his equity in the club when the next set of accounts are released. There's no way he could turn around a £40m loss in a year, despite player sales.
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Jesus fucking wept, can we not just enjoy watching the wee man play a bit before we all go hell in a handcart?
We enjoyed Downing last year, then he was off, I think we all have cause to worry about our best players leaving.
Only because he was a c***.
Ash was courted for two or three years before leaving for the best side in the country. Not everybody is going to up sticks and jump from 9th to 6th.
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That's a bury your head in the sand attitude. Can't you see what RL has done since he took over? Like half of the current England team is made up of ex Villa players sold under his regime. People have a right to feel concerned when all this current regime do is sell our best talent. With that strategy you'll never challenge the top positions in the league.
And at least three of those were also bought under Randy's regime. To blame Randy because MON didn't rate Cahil at the time, or because Barry, Milner and Downing saw £ signs in their eyes is very disingenuous to him in the same way you are saying he has done nothing for the club since taking over.
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I agree it's harsh on RL -to an extent.
But by all accounts Modric wanted to go to Chelsea - he's still at Tottingham.
And Arsenal didn't sell Fabregas the first time Barca started fluttering their eyelids a them. You can legitimately ask were they really any better off selling in the third summer of interest rather than the first, but they tried to give themselves every chance to succeed with him on the books.
Taking each sale individually -from Barry to Downing- they all made sense.
Taken as a whole though, it's hard to get away from the notion that we are a selling club. Not in the Wigan or Crewe way perhaps, selling purely to exist. But good players don't feel they can achieve their ambitions here. And we don't seem to put up a huge amount of resistance if/when they want out. We just aim to get the best possible price, it seems (and we have actually been quite good at that, in fairness).
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If he is as good as some of you think he will be off to a bigger club in the summer anyway
If Randy's new approach to cracking the top four is to develop youngsters and compliment them with astute signings I would be extremely disappointed if we sold any rising star. It would also beg the question just what on earth is the current/long term strategy for success at Villa Park?
There isn't a strategy - RL is only interested in getting the best price for our top players - this will claw back his investment with profit on top, a sort of asset stripping if you like. Let's face it he bought in at £64M and would no doubt 5 years on sell at more than double that - we're just a fixture in his portfolio now ready to be sold off. The guy is ruining Aston Villa's future - Bannan is already being watched elsewhere, next it'll be Gary Gardner.
Have you any proof for all this or is it another case of stamp your foot and blame Randy for everything?
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Randy would get a better price for the club if Young and Downing etc were still here and we were more successful. There's no logic to the view that he's asset stripping because he wants to sell.
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I think if the club were relatively debt free it might make us a more attractive proposition. Therefore, if the money generated from sales is used to service the debt and the wage bill is reduced the club looks financially more attractive.
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I think if the club were relatively debt free it might make us a more attractive proposition. Therefore, if the money generated from sales is used to service the debt and the wage bill is reduced the club looks financially more attractive.
But we'd get a lower price than if we were a team pushing for the top 4. So it would be easier to find a buyer but you'd get less for it.
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The guy is special, he has the potential to become a top top player. I just hope we can keep hold of him, players like Bannan do not come along too often.
He has huge potential, but is still a long long way away from being a top player. He is great with the ball at his feet but he lacks that yard of pace to get away from players & he's not great at getting the ball back. To flourish he needs to play in the right formation with the right players around him who will do the things that he's not good at. Like Delph, Clark & Albrighton he does many things well but others things which show that he lacks experience. They all have great potential, but we must be realistic / patient while they learn (something few Villa fans are good at).
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Like this post.
It's early days yet but Bannan could be the sort of Merson-type creative force we've lacked for a long time. I can see Gabby and Bent thriving on his service. Twenty/thirty yard balls cut out a lot of defenders.
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Like this post.
It's early days yet but Bannan could be the sort of Merson-type creative force we've lacked for a long time. I can see Gabby and Bent thriving on his service. Twenty/thirty yard balls cut out a lot of defenders.
20/30 yd balls that aren't hoofed over the top but bent round or through the opposition defence, just what we've been missing:-)
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He picked up an Achilles injury last night and is doubtful for their midweek game. Hope he isn't played and gets fully fit for Saturday
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He picked up an Achilles injury last night and is doubtful for their midweek game. Hope he isn't played and gets fully fit for Saturday
BBC says that he has a gashed heel and it's in an awkward spot and had to be glued!!
Doesn't sound as though he'll be able to play for a couple of weeks.
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He travelled to Spain though. Not seen a reference to him being out
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I agree it's harsh on RL -to an extent.
But by all accounts Modric wanted to go to Chelsea - he's still at Tottingham.
And Arsenal didn't sell Fabregas the first time Barca started fluttering their eyelids a them. You can legitimately ask were they really any better off selling in the third summer of interest rather than the first, but they tried to give themselves every chance to succeed with him on the books.
Taking each sale individually -from Barry to Downing- they all made sense.
Taken as a whole though, it's hard to get away from the notion that we are a selling club. Not in the Wigan or Crewe way perhaps, selling purely to exist. But good players don't feel they can achieve their ambitions here. And we don't seem to put up a huge amount of resistance if/when they want out. We just aim to get the best possible price, it seems (and we have actually been quite good at that, in fairness).
As was Barry with us, when Liverpool were courting
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He picked up an Achilles injury last night and is doubtful for their midweek game. Hope he isn't played and gets fully fit for Saturday
BBC says that he has a gashed heel and it's in an awkward spot and had to be glued!!
Doesn't sound as though he'll be able to play for a couple of weeks.
Oh good that means Heskey will be in and able to stop Silva from wreaking hell on our defence!!
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Listensing to TV and Radio today most of the "experts" have been describing Bannan as some sort of saviour for Scotland. That is worrying in terms of pressure on him and I don't like that Fletcher around him in the Scottish camp. No doubt he will be singing the praises of manu in his ear.
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He picked up an Achilles injury last night and is doubtful for their midweek game. Hope he isn't played and gets fully fit for Saturday
BBC says that he has a gashed heel and it's in an awkward spot and had to be glued!!
Doesn't sound as though he'll be able to play for a couple of weeks.
Levein quoted as saying he is a 'doubt' for Tuesday, but it is not serious, just that it is awkwardly placed...I assume that it must be in the fold of the heel where the top of the boot rubs it. He'll be fine for the Man Shitty match.