Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: The Laughing Policeman on September 21, 2011, 06:18:47 PM
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I caught a glimpse of this headline on the back of today's Mail. I don't buy the rag so I didn't read the whole story, but I can imagine the glee that last nights result generated amongst their sports reporters. Never mind the financial constraints the club is working under just think of the headlines we can generate. Was it ever thus?
I was at the game last night, and I didn't hear a single boo. But there again I was among fans who support the club through thick and thin and we were making loads of noise supporting our club, and when we went behind we made even more noise. That's what supporting your club is about. No matter how bad things may seem you don't boo your own players or manager
Yes I know that if you pay good money to see your team you have the right to be upset about last nights performance, but booing the team or manager isn't going to change things.
I can honestly say that in my 56 years of being a Villa fan, I've never booed a Villa player player or manager no matter how dire things were.
To my mind supporting The Villa is as unconditional as the love you have for your parents or your wife.
If you want instant gratification either follow one of the so called big four or have a w**k. I'm sure the pleasure will last just as long.
If you want to be a "boo boy" then don't come to my football club and profess to be a fan.
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http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Aston-Villa-fans-are-already-angry-at-Alex-McLeish-after-the-ex-Birmingham-manager-s-first-loss-as-Villa-boss-article802405.html
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I caught a glimpse of this headline on the back of today's Mail. I don't buy the rag so I didn't read the whole story, but I can imagine the glee that last nights result generated amongst their sports reporters.
I dare say a few of our supporters weren't too disappointed either judging from some of the comments on here and other Villa sites.
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I heard he Mcleish mumblings on the way out of the ground, blaming Mcleish for the club selling its two best players isn't fair on the guy.
Managers need time - simple as that.
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'unconditional' does not mean 'blind faith'.
You can still have differences of opinion and disagree with some points.
I have unconditional love for my kids, but we can row and argue at times.
With that in mind, I love the Villa, It is my team. But don't agree with the selection of manager, I don't like his tactics and don't believe he will bring success to the club.
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
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I can honestly say that in my 56 years of being a Villa fan, I've never booed a Villa player player or manager no matter how dire things were.
I booed Alpay when he 'shushed' the Holte End after scoring. That's the only time I can recall doing such a thing.
*Hangs head in shame*
Great post, by the way.
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
were you all there to the end because the ground exploded with boos at the end?
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
were you all there to the end because the ground exploded with boos at the end?
Truthfully, no. I left as the board for injury time was displayed.
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
were you all there to the end because the ground exploded with boos at the end?
Truthfully, no. I left as the board for injury time was displayed.
it was deafening, myself and my lad were on our way out and it def exploded. Luckily, for me and him we have been brought up properly and would never boo our team!
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
were you all there to the end because the ground exploded with boos at the end?
Yes I was there to the end, and about ten minutes after the final whistle we were still singing and chanting for The Villa. But there again in this age of instant gratification we are probably looked upon as deluded fools.
I prefer too look upon it as total support for your club no matter what.
And if the ground "exploded with boos" how come the 21,500 people booing didn't drown out the songs of the 500 or so in L1 and L2?
It's time to get behind the team and the manager and not too boo them, or come on here whingeing about things.
If you're Villa Till You Die you don't boo the players or manager.
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I was in The North Stand. No booing, just shrugs and shaking heads all round. I honestly don't blame people for booing. They made the effort on a wet Tuesday night and were served up a dish of utter garbage.
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I don't get this demonization of booers. My views are the same as Andyh. I am not at all happy with the choice of manager and I am totally at a loss to understand what he is trying to do. My views were expressed in a nutshell by the comment which was made in the press box that we have become a posh Small Heath. That is my personal view.
But back to booing. If you accept that a natural reaction to being pleased is to cheer you must accept that the natural reaction to being displeased is to boo. What the boo demonizers are trying to do is allow natural instincts to prevail when pleased but to suppress them when angered. That is not natural or reasonable.
I have booed on a number of occasions and found it the only instant means of expressing the anger in me. I booed Dennis Law when he stamped on Alan Deakin's face and I booed Savage when he reached through a melee of players and tried to gouge the eye out of one of our players. Mostly I channel my anger into foul language and none racist non homophobic common abuse.
The fans at a Villa game are from all of the social spectrum and they will behave as they choose and provided they do not break the law of the land or scare the children present I think it is precious to lecture them.
That leads me on to the much bandied about censure of "getting behind the manager". I do not know what this means. You cannot shout "great substitution Alex!" or "well shouted at the fourth official McLeish". If getting behind the manager means giving him credit for the things he gets right I am all for that, but like cheering and booing if I display sincere praise for the manager when he is right it is meaningless if I do not criticize him when he is wrong.
Make your own mind up about where Villa are and what they are doing and act accordingly. Don't let the tabloids tell you what to feel and what to think.
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Beginning of the end i'm afraid! Its not Mcleish fault but he is a scapegoat always was going to be. Thats why i couldn't believe the board appointed him, as soon as the results go against us the fans will turn on Mcleish.
O'neil was booed! When we were a top six team.
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The booing that I heard was not necessarily aimed at McLeish. It is just an easy story line for poor newspapers and radio stations. In similar circumstances we would have fielded a much weaker team than that. Anybody who did direct their booing solely at the manager is free to explain exactly what he did wrong.
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There was booing, but not anything like as loud as I expected to be honest.
I'm feeling more grumpy with the players, many of whom have said they are happier with the training and atmosphere at the club under the present manager and then promptly turned in a performance last night, rather like the ones they put us through for most of the last managers time with us. But then a lot of them, just aren't very good I'm afraid.
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SSN showed the Final Whistle and the Boos ringing out. They might have turned the mikes up to make it sound loud, but you could not hear any cheering.
It is predictable that after a result and performance like that he is going to get abuse although I guess the boos were aimed at the players aswell.
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I heard some boos,about midway through the second half and at the final whistle. When your 1-0 down at home to an average Bolton team with 1 upfront and showing no sign of scoring it was always going to happen. The players aswell as the tactics are a joke!!!
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The players don't deserve any cheers either. That's worse than boos imo. Why does a player like Stephen Ireland deserve any praise? Hasn't done anything and he's currently robbed Villa of a years wage. And he's one of the highest earners.
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I don't like boos during the game or at half time. However when you play one up front against a shit bolton team and the tactics are for Collins to fucking hoof it down the field and out of play and then get pushed up front I bloody well will boo.
I want mcleish to make us a good side but he won't, he's not a good manager and he never will be.
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I'm not saying I was a boo-er but I reserve the right to boo all I like if what I am watching is inept long ball crap like last night.
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
were you all there to the end because the ground exploded with boos at the end?
Truthfully, no. I left as the board for injury time was displayed.
it was deafening, myself and my lad were on our way out and it def exploded. Luckily, for me and him we have been brought up properly and would never boo our team!
"Exploded"' "deafening" - you must have had your hearing aid on the wrong setting.
We got boos but then we nearly always do if we lose a game these days, it's the modern way.
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Apostrophe misplaced. Boys is the plural of boy. Boy's means belonging to the boy. It would be sad if grammar standards slipped to the level of Ireland's footballing standards.
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For years fans have been booing at half time and full time after a defeat or draw against a team that should be beaten. It is the same at grounds up and down the country.
It is not necessarily a criticism on the manager or an individual player but a simple means of expressing dissatisfaction at a result and / or performance.
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For years fans have been booing at half time and full time after a defeat or draw against a team that should be beaten. It is the same at grounds up and down the country.
It is not necessarily a criticism on the manager or an individual player but a simple means of expressing dissatisfaction at a result and / or performance.
Yes, indeed.
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I boo'd at fulltime.
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Well said Pat. Precisely.
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Booing is no great phenomena. It’s been going on at the Opera for hundreds of years. One note out of tune in a 3 hour performance and beware. The difference is that at the end of an opera each performer takes an individual bow and therefore gets individual praise/criticism.
I am not afforded the opportunity to do this at football, therefore, I reserve the right to express my feelings to the team and manager as a unit.
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I think that the fans should unconditionally support the squad during the game, I agree with the Laughing Policeman about this, but I think that they must be free to boo after the final whistle if they are not satisfied with the way the team played in terms of committment.
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One shot on target in 90minutes and a home defeat, most fans wouldn't be particularly happy with that, how else do you express your feelings?
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I'm afraid this is one of the problems with appointing McLeish. It's a predictable story and headline, but the media have been chomping for the first chance to run with this, wholly exaggerated or not. I actually feel sorry for McLeish. His appointment was so controversial that, come the first slip up, people were always going to be on his back. He doesn't have the same amount of breathing space that would be afforded to other managers.
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To my mind supporting The Villa is as unconditional as the love you have for your parents or your wife.
The wife? You've lost me there son!
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I am not a fan of McLeish and didn't want to see him appointed, but...
what would anyone on these boards have done differently since he was appointed, given the constraints he is working under?
Very little, I would guess. Maybe the odd selection or positional switch, but nothing that you could say that definitely would have yielded better results.
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To my mind supporting The Villa is as unconditional as the love you have for your parents or your wife.
The wife? You've lost me there son!
:)
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people say a better chioce of manager would have been Mark Hughes,
i dont think the football would be much different under Hughes or Moyes for that matter, i cant remember people rushing to watch the 'entertainer' Mark Hughes's team play.
if you want entertainment its Keegan, Holloway i argued long and hard for Martinez, but obviously that never happened, then theres Coyle and that chap from Swansea maybe Poyet, all of them listed would be preferable to the 3 names at the top, and yes i would take KK over AM.
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It's actually a rubbish phrasal verb, like something a child might come out with rather than a proper paper. One might explode with rage, for example, but explode with boos? Boos ring out, they don't explode. Shit writing.
That said, don't see anything wrong with a good boo at full-time when it can no longer influence the course of the game and you've paid good money for utter crap. What are we supposed to do after getting turned over at home to Bolton Wanderers, turn fuckin' sommersualts?
Edit: apologies to esteemed organ of journalistic integrity, it was Rutski who 'def exploded' Rutski, poor stuff fella.
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Putting aside the blose thing, I think the main problem with the AM appointment was the average fan was looking at a totally different criteria for manager than the board obviously were. Most of us were expecting to carry on roughly how we had under GH and the candidates we thought of were in that vein. Someone like Martinez was underwhealming and it was a shock when he turned us down but when you think about it, his rejection doesn't look odd at all in hindsight
If you tell a potential manager that a) he has to sell to buy b) you'll going to lose 8-9 players from you squad and not just the crap ones and c) a good third of the money you make from sales will be squirrelled away and not spent on replacements, then its not surprising he turned us down. Names like Hughes and Benetiz were pie in the sky because they wouldn't work under those conditions. You'd have to have an almost psychotic belief in your own abilities to take the job or be desperate to leave your current job. Which is where AM came in.
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I can honestly say that in my 56 years of being a Villa fan, I've never booed a Villa player player or manager no matter how dire things were.
I booed Alpay when he 'shushed' the Holte End after scoring. That's the only time I can recall doing such a thing.
*Hangs head in shame*
Great post, by the way.
Alpay deserved the booing that day, I remember laughing at first when he did it but then it seemed like he carried on for too long, cringeworthy moment indeed.
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Villa are crap at the moment. They will probably be mediocre again at some point, and then crap again after that. Shrugs.
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I was in The North Stand. No booing, just shrugs and shaking heads all round. I honestly don't blame people for booing. They made the effort on a wet Tuesday night and were served up a dish of utter garbage.
I thought Bolton played quite well *winy thingy*
Booing OUR team is not the way to handle things, but it's fans showing desperation - a kind of physical / mental relief if you like after being marginally patient and expectant for 90 odd minutes.
I'm not a 'better fan than yow', but have never booed the team or any player in the shirt, but can understand why it happens.
As far as 'noise' is concerned, in an ideal world, those fans would make more noise during the game - actually getting behind the team from the off, then I guess they'd have more 'right' to boo ?
UTV 100% at all times.
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Putting aside the blose thing, I think the main problem with the AM appointment was the average fan was looking at a totally different criteria for manager than the board obviously were. Most of us were expecting to carry on roughly how we had under GH and the candidates we thought of were in that vein. Someone like Martinez was underwhealming and it was a shock when he turned us down but when you think about it, his rejection doesn't look odd at all in hindsight
If you tell a potential manager that a) he has to sell to buy b) you'll going to lose 8-9 players from you squad and not just the crap ones and c) a good third of the money you make from sales will be squirrelled away and not spent on replacements, then its not surprising he turned us down. Names like Hughes and Benetiz were pie in the sky because they wouldn't work under those conditions. You'd have to have an almost psychotic belief in your own abilities to take the job or be desperate to leave your current job. Which is where AM came in.
That's the best post you've ever made, Greg.
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And to think some of us (me included) thought we were in with a shout for Ancelloti!
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And to think some of us (me included) thought we were in with a shout for Ancelloti!
Yep. While members of this forum were playing 'which Champions League winning manager do we prefer', the board was playing 'which relegation battle manager won't turn us down'.
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Putting aside the blose thing, I think the main problem with the AM appointment was the average fan was looking at a totally different criteria for manager than the board obviously were. Most of us were expecting to carry on roughly how we had under GH and the candidates we thought of were in that vein. Someone like Martinez was underwhealming and it was a shock when he turned us down but when you think about it, his rejection doesn't look odd at all in hindsight
If you tell a potential manager that a) he has to sell to buy b) you'll going to lose 8-9 players from you squad and not just the crap ones and c) a good third of the money you make from sales will be squirrelled away and not spent on replacements, then its not surprising he turned us down. Names like Hughes and Benetiz were pie in the sky because they wouldn't work under those conditions. You'd have to have an almost psychotic belief in your own abilities to take the job or be desperate to leave your current job. Which is where AM came in.
That's the best post you've ever made, Greg.
+1
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Putting aside the blose thing, I think the main problem with the AM appointment was the average fan was looking at a totally different criteria for manager than the board obviously were. Most of us were expecting to carry on roughly how we had under GH and the candidates we thought of were in that vein. Someone like Martinez was underwhealming and it was a shock when he turned us down but when you think about it, his rejection doesn't look odd at all in hindsight
If you tell a potential manager that a) he has to sell to buy b) you'll going to lose 8-9 players from you squad and not just the crap ones and c) a good third of the money you make from sales will be squirrelled away and not spent on replacements, then its not surprising he turned us down. Names like Hughes and Benetiz were pie in the sky because they wouldn't work under those conditions. You'd have to have an almost psychotic belief in your own abilities to take the job or be desperate to leave your current job. Which is where AM came in.
Putting aside the blose thing, I think the main problem with the AM appointment was the average fan was looking at a totally different criteria for manager than the board obviously were. Most of us were expecting to carry on roughly how we had under GH and the candidates we thought of were in that vein. Someone like Martinez was underwhealming and it was a shock when he turned us down but when you think about it, his rejection doesn't look odd at all in hindsight
If you tell a potential manager that a) he has to sell to buy b) you'll going to lose 8-9 players from you squad and not just the crap ones and c) a good third of the money you make from sales will be squirrelled away and not spent on replacements, then its not surprising he turned us down. Names like Hughes and Benetiz were pie in the sky because they wouldn't work under those conditions. You'd have to have an almost psychotic belief in your own abilities to take the job or be desperate to leave your current job. Which is where AM came in.
We didn't even get to talk to Martinez to outline our plans did we ?
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And to think some of us (me included) thought we were in with a shout for Ancelloti!
The thing is, we probably were. That's what's so confusing about the appointment, we went from one extreme to the other. Ancelloti aside, how do you go from Benitez to AM? Chalk and cheese.
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
were you all there to the end because the ground exploded with boos at the end?
Yes I was there to the end, and about ten minutes after the final whistle we were still singing and chanting for The Villa. But there again in this age of instant gratification we are probably looked upon as deluded fools.
I prefer too look upon it as total support for your club no matter what.
And if the ground "exploded with boos" how come the 21,500 people booing didn't drown out the songs of the 500 or so in L1 and L2?
It's time to get behind the team and the manager and not too boo them, or come on here whingeing about things.
If you're Villa Till You Die you don't boo the players or manager.
Ok you can sit/stand there and smile with the blinkers on if you want and you can keep doing it in the Championship next season, that is the way it's heading unless he does something different. He hasn't since he came to england so why would he now (if several relegations haven't told him he's doing something wrong then nothing will)
One last thing I have been a season ticket holder for 14 seasons now and have never booed before but i couldn't withhold my extreme anger after the match and don't F***king tell me i don't support my club because i booed. I've been home & away for the past 3 seasons including Hamburg and Rapid Vienna x2 whilst unemployed nearly bankrupting myself so i am very committed. I don't want us in the championship because unless things change that is where we will be next season. Tuesday was the worset performance i have ever seen which includes the games i saw before i had a season ticket.
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It was certainly right up there with both Vienna performances Stuart. And AM purchased the centre half from us who played (crap) in both those games.
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And to think some of us (me included) thought we were in with a shout for Ancelloti!
Yep. While members of this forum were playing 'which Champions League winning manager do we prefer', the board was playing 'which relegation battle manager won't turn us down'.
And if that's true, then they couldn't have picked a worse man than Alex McLeish, who has already proved on two occasions that when the rot sets in, he can't turn it around. I'm hoping we'll be ok this season and avoid getting dragged into a scrap down the bottom, but I think a couple of defeats will see the players heads go down more than they already are.
McLeish is a lousy manager, we all know that - why did the board make such a terrible appointment? I really don't see what he offered, other than probably being happy to work under financial constraints. If that's the limit of ambition though, I'll be keeping my money in my pocket, thanks - I've got precious little of it as it is.
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And to think some of us (me included) thought we were in with a shout for Ancelloti!
The thing is, we probably were. That's what's so confusing about the appointment, we went from one extreme to the other. Ancelloti aside, how do you go from Benitez to AM? Chalk and cheese.
It was very odd. We approached Ancelotti, he wouldn't talk to us. Then we interviewed/spoke to Benitez for 15 minutes before deciding he wanted too much control. So we set up an interview with McClaren, but for some reason we changed our mind and cancelled. After that we approached Wigan to speak with Martinez, but he didn't want to. And in the end we went for McLeish, who has a completely different style and footballing ideology, arguing that he is a 'perfect fit'. Oh well.
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It was certainly right up there with both Vienna performances Stuart. And AM purchased the centre half from us who played (crap) in both those games.
Home games were better.... We Scored for starters.
The Away games can't tell you to be honest i was Very drunk for both of them and remember little about both trips.
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If there was any booing, I'd like to think it was aimed at the players. We put a decent team out and they couldn't motivate themselves to get a result against a second-string Bolton side.
It doesn't all come down the manager, but if it's convenient to blame him then go for it.
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If there was any booing, I'd like to think it was aimed at the players. We put a decent team out and they couldn't motivate themselves to get a result against a second-string Bolton side.
It doesn't all come down the manager, but if it's convenient to blame him then go for it.
Indeed.
I think what needs to happen right now is Collins delivers more hoofs in the future he should be booed everytime. He gets paid alot of money and he doesn't even make an effort with the ball.
I also think Delph, Albrighton, Ireland and N'Zogbia deserve venom if they carry on their poor form of football. They would struggle in the Championship. Ireland deserves it the most though. He is robbing us blind with the high wages his on contributing fuck all on the pitch. Has he ever broken a sweat in a Villa shirt?
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If there was any booing, I'd like to think it was aimed at the players. We put a decent team out and they couldn't motivate themselves to get a result against a second-string Bolton side.
It doesn't all come down the manager, but if it's convenient
Nobody boos the players without an implicit criticism of the manager who picked them and instructed them.
"The team were woeful tonight but, you know, the manager, he was excellent. If only the dreadful players were as good as our wonderful manager."
When did you last hear that one outside Cloud Cuckoo Land?
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If there was any booing, I'd like to think it was aimed at the players. We put a decent team out and they couldn't motivate themselves to get a result against a second-string Bolton side.
It doesn't all come down the manager, but if it's convenient to blame him then go for it.
Indeed.
I think what needs to happen right now is Collins delivers more hoofs in the future he should be booed everytime. He gets paid alot of money and he doesn't even make an effort with the ball.
I also think Delph, Albrighton, Ireland and N'Zogbia deserve venom if they carry on their poor form of football. They would struggle in the Championship. Ireland deserves it the most though. He is robbing us blind with the high wages his on contributing fuck all on the pitch. Has he ever broken a sweat in a Villa shirt?
Three out of the four names you listed in your last paragraph, many supporters thought would be the driving force this season.
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And to think some of us (me included) thought we were in with a shout for Ancelloti!
The thing is, we probably were. That's what's so confusing about the appointment, we went from one extreme to the other. Ancelloti aside, how do you go from Benitez to AM? Chalk and cheese.
It was very odd. We approached Ancelotti, he wouldn't talk to us. Then we interviewed/spoke to Benitez for 15 minutes before deciding he wanted too much control. So we set up an interview with McClaren, but for some reason we changed our mind and cancelled. After that we approached Wigan to speak with Martinez, but he didn't want to. And in the end we went for McLeish, who has a completely different style and footballing ideology, arguing that he is a 'perfect fit'. Oh well.
This:
http://www.daylife.com/article/0dKUbMs632amR
was widely reported across many papers all over Europe, experienced manager that likes good attacking football, he wanted the job and IMO would have been a step up from Houllier and MON......but we choose to ignore the man.
Also gone on record saying he still wants the job, there's no excuse.
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He probably wouldn't have when he found the constraints he would be working under.
I really don't understand the handwringing around booing. It's not particularly bad on here but it is in the media. I personally tend not to do it but I feel that you pay your money and so you should have your say if something is unacceptably poor in your opinion.
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He probably wouldn't have when he found the constraints he would be working under.
I really don't understand the handwringing around booing. It's not particularly bad on here but it is in the media. I personally tend not to do it but I feel that you pay your money and so you should have your say if something is unacceptably poor in your opinion.
I agree, the wringing of hands is OTT. But I can also understand why people are pissed off - another false dawn after so much promise - but my view is that it's really nobody's fault so blaming Lerner / MON / Houllier / AM / Bob Hoskins is futile. Still time for AM to turn it around but the fact is he shouldn't be having to turn it around after one whole defeat. It's some of the vitriol on here that I find most uncomfortable, bluenose ****** this, wish he'd just sell up and fuck off that. Really boring.
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The booing thing is one of the many crutches used by lazy, second rate sports journalists to prop up and pad out reports so that they can get down the pub having not broken sweat.
These same lazy journalists have brought about the notion that teams can be condensed into the identity of their manager. When we had O'Neill we were written about and broadcast about as though Aston Villa Football Club was somehow an enlarged version of him. Spurs are 'Arry, Arsenal are French Wenger, West Ham are Fat Sam.
You can compare it to predictive spelling on a mobile phone. Instead of the full range of the english language and the complete events of ninety minutes of football, there are twenty or thirty stock images, phrases, similies and metaphors which can be pasted together to fill the space available. Thus 'The Reds' can be Liverpool, Man U, Forest etc, The Blues can be Small Heath, Chelsea, Ipswich and so forth.
"Boo boys" is just one of those stock cut and paste expressions like "Man of the match" "Club in crisis" "Horror injury" "Wonder goal" "Heads going down" "Comeback kid" "Forgotten man""My (name of club) nightmare". "Boo boys" is particularly popular because it has alliteration, only seven letters and reaches out to all the tabloid readers who never go to games to reinforce their prejudices against the modern game and to justify the fact that they are too mean and too mean spirited to get off their arses to see a live game.
Lazy journalists stroking lazy readers.
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That's the best post you've ever made, Greg.
Talk about damning with faint praise.
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Anyway - what is the name of this boo boy who is out for Mcleish?
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All I heard was the sound of silence with occasional murmurs of exasperation. No booing.
were you all there to the end because the ground exploded with boos at the end?
Truthfully, no. I left as the board for injury time was displayed.
it was deafening, myself and my lad were on our way out and it def exploded. Luckily, for me and him we have been brought up properly and would never boo our team!
"Exploded"' "deafening" - you must have had your hearing aid on the wrong setting.
We got boos but then we nearly always do if we lose a game these days, it's the modern way.
my missus dropped a tea tray today, the noise was deafening, i jumped out of my skin. I think i may have to turn my deaf aid down, sorry, who said that? just the mice talking amongst them selves!