Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: andyaston on September 21, 2011, 02:27:23 PM
-
From what I have seen since the start of the season a few things have changed. One is we look pretty well orgainised at the back, a lot more solid than last year.
However, our midfield seems extremely lightweight and in our last 3 games without Heskey's strength and support our midfield has been overrun.
Since we lost Milner last year we have been lacking in this department, games away at Man City and Liverpool last season were alarming. There were other games where we got away with it but, in the main our backline was under no protection and looked all at sea.
This season we have a good Goalkeeper in Shay Given and the backline look more solid with vast improvements from Warnock and Dunne. But, when Petrov (who seems to be playing well) went off on saturday we had a midfield consisting of Albrighton, Delph, N'zogbia and Ireland. This, with Bannan who was substituted makes the middle of the park seem very weak. All are under 5''9 tall and none weigh more than 11 stone which means a pub team could bully us.
Anyone who has played the game knows if your playing with a lightweight midfield your there for the taking. Jenas may add some running but, this area needs adressing. Until this happens, the forwards will have no service and our improved defence will be put under more pressure thus, we will get performances similar to our last 3 games, two of which we got away with lucky draws.
-
I totally agree. The injection of someone a bit mean in there will make a big difference. There is an improvement in some individual performances but it needs someone to hold it all together as midfield is a bit of a void at the moment.
-
Lightweight midfield, absolutely.... I think a few of us saw this coming months ago. I've put my thoughts on it in the QPR pre-match thread.
-
I totally agree.
I was sat high in the Trinity for last night game, I'm usually in the family area.
There seemed to be a huge hole in the middle.
I felt for the defence last night as they had no cover in front, something Petrov & Delph had been doing.
Last night we had, in my opinion, a really attack minded midfield and it failed big time.
I know he's got his knockers, but I think we missed Delph last night.
Talking of having his knockers, Heskey's got his fair share also.
Would I be the only one to say I think we missed him too?
I think we lacked muscle last night, EH holds it pretty well, and when you play the likes of Bolton you need it.
-
Did we actually offer NRC a new contract ? From reading an interview with him,it sounds like we didn't,he only found out on twitter that he'd been released.
Either way,though he had his limitations,we miss his pressing and energy,and we don'thave anyone like him in the squad right now.
-
Did we actually offer NRC a new contract ? From reading an interview with him,it sounds like we didn't,he only found out on twitter that he'd been released.
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer is he then.
His contract was ending. He hadn't signed another one. What exactly was he expecting to happen on July 1st?
-
We need an absolute gripper in the middle of the park who isn't Joey Barton but does kick chunks out of anyone within 15 yards of him.
I think Jean Deux was meant to be that man but it didn't quite work out like that.
Sadly, the sort of player we need is a pretty rare occurence.
-
I think we lacked muscle last night, EH holds it pretty well, and when you play the likes of Bolton you need it.
You wouldn't think so considering how much he gets slagged off.
Heskey would have been just what we needed to mix it in the middle a bit last night.
-
I thought Jean II Makoun could have been that player but he carried the incurable disease of being the previous manager's man and treated accordingly ie disgracefully when you compare how much time and indulgence has been wasted on Ireland. The reverse is true of course that N'Zogbia can fanny about and play the diva till the cows come home and still be on the teamsheet because he is the manager's man.
-
I think we lacked muscle last night, EH holds it pretty well, and when you play the likes of Bolton you need it.
You wouldn't think so considering how much he gets slagged off.
Heskey would have been just what we needed to mix it in the middle a bit last night.
And in all honesty, regardless of loving or hating heskey, if an aging centre forward who has never really used his bulk, pace and skill to anywhere near it's potential can do a job in midfield then we are really in the shit.
-
Anyone who has played the game knows if your playing with a lightweight midfield your there for the taking.
When was the last time you watched Barcelona?
-
Anyone who has played the game knows if your playing with a lightweight midfield your there for the taking.
When was the last time you watched Barcelona?
Indeed but the Barca midfield get in their faces, our midfield stand off and invite them to pass the ball around us.
-
I think we lacked muscle last night, EH holds it pretty well, and when you play the likes of Bolton you need it.
You wouldn't think so considering how much he gets slagged off.
Heskey would have been just what we needed to mix it in the middle a bit last night.
And in all honesty, regardless of loving or hating heskey, if an aging centre forward who has never really used his bulk, pace and skill to anywhere near it's potential can do a job in midfield then we are really in the shit.
He wouldn't have player midfield, would he?
He'd have played alongside Gabby and took the hits for him.
Some games you need someone like EH, others you don't. Simples
-
That comment Villadephia is one of the most insightful I have read in ages. Barcelona midfield are like terriers after rats. Our midfield watch the opposition and try to make sense of what they are doing instead of breaking it up whatever it is.
-
Arsenal did the same with Thomas Rocastle and Davis, they hunted as a pack, you dont need to tackle if you close the space around the man in posession the way that Barca do. Surprised that this tactic has not been repeated in the game more often, you need quick agile players with stamina to do it.
-
David Rocastle?
I didn't think Paul Davis was particularly small though. I thought he was 6ft+?
-
I don't think we missed Delph I think he's a championship player, we missed out by not gettin Barton on a free
-
I don't think we missed Delph I think he's a championship player, we missed out by not gettin Barton on a free
£80k per week is not free!!!
-
I honestly cannot remember the last time that I was happy with the centre of the midfield....I suspect it dates back to when Ian Taylor was around though....forever too lightweight
-
I'd try Clark and Jenas, when both are fit, to play in a midfield two, and add Bannan to that if playing with a three.
-
I don't think we missed Delph I think he's a championship player, we missed out by not gettin Barton on a free
Delph has been one of our best performers this year. He is pure quality.
-
I don't think we missed Delph I think he's a championship player, we missed out by not gettin Barton on a free
£80k per week is not free!!!
Is anybody free? We wouldn't have to pay Newcastle a fee, look how much we've forked out on Heskey &Beye & Ireland
-
I don't think we missed Delph I think he's a championship player, we missed out by not gettin Barton on a free
Delph has been one of our best performers this year. He is pure quality.
I don't think we missed Delph I think he's a championship player, we missed out by not gettin Barton on a free
Delph has been one of our best performers this year. He is pure quality.
No he hasn't and no he isn't, he was poor against Newcastle and Everton and not much better against Wolves
-
I don't think we missed Delph I think he's a championship player, we missed out by not gettin Barton on a free
£80k per week is not free!!!
Is anybody free? We wouldn't have to pay Newcastle a fee, look how much we've forked out on Heskey &Beye & Ireland
£40k per week, being the difference between Barton and Heskey/Beye (assuming Heskey and Beye are on £40k per week), over a 5 yr contract is over £10m. We didn't spend anywhere near that much on Heskey and Beye added together.
-
We don't need beye or heskey we need someone like Barton, I bet heskey is on over £60k a week easy as is beye
-
David Rocastle?
I didn't think Paul Davis was particularly small though. I thought he was 6ft+?
i was trying to make the point, that Arsenal midfield was the first time that i saw a collective pressing tactic, rather than the traditional man marking regimes. They all went to the man with the ball to regain posession in the same way that Barca do now.
-
I honestly cannot remember the last time that I was happy with the centre of the midfield....
Milner and Petrov was absolutely fine.
-
Milner and Petrov were the best pairing we have had for a long time. Milner and Barry both centrally would have been quite good too. Ah I miss Jimmy.
Gardner sounds like he had a great game for the reserves tonight, I can't help but think he needs to start being integrated in as the future of our midfield until someone pays us silly money for him!
Jenas, Delph and Petrov have to play IMO for us to have a chance of competing properly in there, with Gabby and NZogbia playing as wide strikers in the Chelsea model. Then Bannan and Ireland can be back ups with Gardner getting some game time too hopefully.
Heskey - is he a better attacking midfield player than striker now... possibly. Or even holding midfield.... hmmm...Makele.. Heskey...
-
I'd try Clark and Jenas, when both are fit, to play in a midfield two, and add Bannan to that if playing with a three.
After posting I read this page. I thought Clark in midfield was one of the positives of last season when he played there, and thought he was very good in the game against Blues at VP. Could work - Clark Jenas with someone in front. Interesting..
-
I'd try Clark and Jenas, when both are fit, to play in a midfield two, and add Bannan to that if playing with a three.
After posting I read this page. I thought Clark in midfield was one of the positives of last season when he played there, and thought he was very good in the game against Blues at VP. Could work - Clark Jenas with someone in front. Interesting..
I would definately give this a go.
-
When JJ is fit it will be him and Petrov in the middle. Or at best we'll finally go three, Jenas-Petrov-Delph.
I'd like to see Clark get a run in that trio sometime.
-
I think this has been a common theme on here since we released NRC without seeming interested in replacing him. Letting Makoun go too was a bit puzzling, but he chased and closed down the opponents pretty effectively. These days we don't even seem to be doing that. I'm not sure if we are better off with an injured Spurs reject.
I hope McLeish tries something new in the next match. QPR should be the perfect opportunity to play Clarke, Herd or both in midfield. If he persists with Petrov and Delph chances are it will be another lacklustre and disjointed display.
-
We need an absolute gripper in the middle of the park
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/01_03/gripperBBC1301_228x353.jpg)
-
When JJ is fit it will be him and Petrov in the middle. Or at best we'll finally go three, Jenas-Petrov-Delph.
I'd like to see Clark get a run in that trio sometime.
Yes me too but it will be Jenas and Petrov for most of this season.
-
I think we lacked muscle last night, EH holds it pretty well, and when you play the likes of Bolton you need it.
You wouldn't think so considering how much he gets slagged off.
Heskey would have been just what we needed to mix it in the middle a bit last night.
And in all honesty, regardless of loving or hating heskey, if an aging centre forward who has never really used his bulk, pace and skill to anywhere near it's potential can do a job in midfield then we are really in the shit.
Amen to that
Pound for pound Heskey is shit physically.
I would go as far to call him a poof
-
I would go as far to call him a poof
And why would you do that, unless of course you were a homophobic dimwit?
-
I think this has been a common theme on here since we released NRC without seeming interested in replacing him. Letting Makoun go too was a bit puzzling, but he chased and closed down the opponents pretty effectively. These days we don't even seem to be doing that. I'm not sure if we are better off with an injured Spurs reject.
I hope McLeish tries something new in the next match. QPR should be the perfect opportunity to play Clarke, Herd or both in midfield. If he persists with Petrov and Delph chances are it will be another lacklustre and disjointed display.
Is Clark fit? I feel like I read something within the past few days that he wasn't exactly match fit.
-
I would go as far to call him a poof
And why would you do that, unless of course you were a homophobic dimwit?
A poof in the respect of not wanting to put in a challenge in case it might hurt him or falling like a lumbering redwood if a player breathes within 3 feet
Dear me calling people names, still you'll be going to Juniors soon
-
Imagine Fellaini in our midfield instead of Petrov, a big, pretty intimidating guy who can pass and also score the odd goal.
That's the kind of player we need.
-
I would go as far to call him a poof
And why would you do that, unless of course you were a homophobic dimwit?
A poof in the respect of not wanting to put in a challenge in case it might hurt him or falling like a lumbering redwood if a player breathes within 3 feet
Dear me calling people names, still you'll be going to Juniors soon
It's extremely hypocritical of you to whinge about name calling when you've been pulled up for calling somebody a "poof".
-
Whilst I agree with the consensus that a hard/strong player in the middle of the park would help us I think the personnel we have can help themselves by keeping the ball better, as they did for parts of the 2nd half against QPR. Also by pushing up more when not on the ball. Sitting deep and inviting pressure combined with smaller stature is a recipe for disaster.
-
I would go as far to call him a poof
And why would you do that, unless of course you were a homophobic dimwit?
A poof in the respect of not wanting to put in a challenge in case it might hurt him or falling like a lumbering redwood if a player breathes within 3 feet
So being homophobic then? Just checking.
-
I would go as far to call him a poof
And why would you do that, unless of course you were a homophobic dimwit?
A poof in the respect of not wanting to put in a challenge in case it might hurt him or falling like a lumbering redwood if a player breathes within 3 feet
So being homophobic then? Just checking.
Why is he being homophobic ?
I thought moderators were above being so judgmental - they should be.
He meant a bit of a weakling in a non rugby playing sort of way ( i.e. not overly physical and not using his body strength) it doesn't take massive amounts of intelligence to see that.
I guess we would expect more, but hey ho.
-
Do we mis Reo-Coker?
-
Do we miss Reo-Coker?
Yes.
-
Do we miss Reo-Coker?
Yes.
No.
Yes, he will win more battles than the current midfield but there's little point when as soon as he wins the ball he gives it straight back to the opposition.
We need to be more slick in midfield and there were signs for 20 or so minutes on Sunday that we can be. Having Jenas to come in will give us more options as an an adequate replacement for Petrov when he tires or a direct replacement for Delph.
-
NRC didn't give the ball away as much as some seem to think, and his stats prove that, but he was guilty of giving us very little going forward and had a habit of running into deadends when he did.
As always, we need someone than can give us his strength, energy and tackling, but also more on the ball. Unfortunately, those type of players are few and far between, plus they do not come cheap.
-
yes the midfield is lightweight, but what we gonna do ....go out and buy a driving midfield player, gets you 5-10 PL goals a year?? no we are not because that will cost us £10-15m.
We got to work with what we got. This will be AM biggest challenge at Villa and one in my view which will keep or lose him his job.
Petrov, Clarke, BB, JJ, Delph & Ireland have got to work because people.....we ain't gonna get anymore!
-
I'd like to see 3 in there.
Playmaker - Ireland/Bannon. probably Ireland if he doesn't have another breakdown
Grafter - Jenas, petrov can't do it anymore
Defensive midfielder - Petrov/Clarke
Fuck the wingers off and play N'Zogbia in a free role behind Gabby and Bent
-
Why is he being homophobic ?
I thought moderators were above being so judgmental - they should be.
He meant a bit of a weakling in a non rugby playing sort of way ( i.e. not overly physical and not using his body strength) it doesn't take massive amounts of intelligence to see that.
I guess we would expect more, but hey ho.
Using the word 'poof', a word generally associated with homosexual males, to describe someone being not very physical, thereby implying that gay men cannot be strong and athletic.
We don't accept casual racism on here, why should we accept casual homophobia.
-
Why is he being homophobic ?
I thought moderators were above being so judgmental - they should be.
He meant a bit of a weakling in a non rugby playing sort of way ( i.e. not overly physical and not using his body strength) it doesn't take massive amounts of intelligence to see that.
I guess we would expect more, but hey ho.
Yes, perish the thought that we should be allowed opinions as well. If he means 'poof' as 'a bit of a weakling', then yes, that is being homophobic. In the same that if he had said 'faggot' to mean 'a bit of a weakling' or 'queer' to mean 'a bit of a weakling'. Their all pejorative terms for homosexuals so he is either being homophobic or extremely stupid. I don't really see any middle ground.
Sorry if that's too opinionated from your fragile and sensitive mind Tim.
-
Why is he being homophobic ?
I thought moderators were above being so judgmental - they should be.
He meant a bit of a weakling in a non rugby playing sort of way ( i.e. not overly physical and not using his body strength) it doesn't take massive amounts of intelligence to see that.
I guess we would expect more, but hey ho.
Yes, perish the thought that we should be allowed opinions as well. If he means 'poof' as 'a bit of a weakling', then yes, that is being homophobic. In the same that if he had said 'faggot' to mean 'a bit of a weakling' or 'queer' to mean 'a bit of a weakling'. Their all pejorative terms for homosexuals so he is either being homophobic or extremely stupid. I don't really see any middle ground.
Sorry if that's too opinionated from your fragile and sensitive mind Tim.
It's you, yes YOU with the fragile and sensitive mind Dave, taking someone on a football fanzine who uses a word like that to be interpreted as being homophobic.
It's you with a rather insular state of mind that's the issue ( with you).
That and being derogatory - your specialism.
-
Yeah, silly me taking issue with casual bigotry. It's obviously me that has the problem.
-
Why is he being homophobic ?
I thought moderators were above being so judgmental - they should be.
He meant a bit of a weakling in a non rugby playing sort of way ( i.e. not overly physical and not using his body strength) it doesn't take massive amounts of intelligence to see that.
I guess we would expect more, but hey ho.
I'm sure there are plenty of big strapping blokes out there that are brave and strong who just happen to be gay. It doesn't take massive amounts of intelligence to see that using gayness in a manner linked to a negative connotation is being somewhat homophobic. Indeed using the word poof at all is being homophobic in much the same way as referring to black people as niggers is being racist.
-
Any road up, back to our lightweight midfield.
A midfield needs a mix of aggression and creativity, one of my all time favourite midfield players was Johnny Giles in his Leeds days specially, he could both create and destroy and was excellent at both.
Dennis Mortimer ditto, he could win the ball and carry it, we need someone like that ideally.
Caveat - refs don't let much go these days !
-
I asked on another thread last week if a midfield with Ireland and Bannan could work. Most of us thought not - more powder puff than the Power Puff Girls.
Now it looks like the best (only?!) football we'll play requires both in the team.
-
As long as delph et al. Aren't wasteful in possession and are sensible with their positional play then I think we can get by with our lightweight midfield.
Peoples favourite power puff girl, is that its own thread?
-
i think petrov, delph and jenas will compete for all round box to box player in midfield, and ireland and bannon wil compete for creative midfield ( to play off the striker )
-
Imagine Fellaini in our midfield instead of Petrov, a big, pretty intimidating guy who can pass and also score the odd goal.
That's the kind of player we need.
I find him one of the most overrated players in the league tbh.
-
i think petrov, delph and jenas will compete for all round box to box player in midfield, and ireland and bannon wil compete for creative midfield ( to play off the striker )
The thing is with Petrov, when he's made the box to box run, he's knackered and can't do it again the whole match.
He slows things down far too much.
-
Imagine Fellaini in our midfield instead of Petrov, a big, pretty intimidating guy who can pass and also score the odd goal.
That's the kind of player we need.
I find him one of the most overrated players in the league tbh.
I disagree. I think he would be a perfect fit for our midfield (although I'm not a fan of his constant elbowing). He's reasonably mobile and an absolute giant so it should allow Bannan to play centrally without us being too small.
I fear he'd cost in excess of 10m so he could be beyond our means at the moment.
-
By the way, been reading quite a bit this past week about a certain midfielder impressing in Serie A; Michael Bradley's Chievo punching above their weight and up to third (early days in the league I know).
Still think, for the sake of £2.5m, he'd have been a good acquisition in central midfield. Perhaps if funds hadn't been so tight we'd have taken the chance.
-
By the way, been reading quite a bit this past week about a certain midfielder impressing in Serie A; Michael Bradley's Chievo punching above their weight and up to third (early days in the league I know).
Still think, for the sake of £2.5m, he'd have been a good acquisition in central midfield. Perhaps if funds hadn't been so tight we'd have taken the chance.
I think it's easier for a hard working box-to-box guy to succeed in Italy. Personally, I don't think he could have ever hacked the grind of English football. Too fast and too strong for him.
-
Considering the fact he played four times for us (for the reserves against Man City in the Cup, when we were down to ten against Blackburn and two other games I cannot remember. One of which I recall him being pretty good in) we could hardly conclude as to his ability or lack thereof. He had no fair chance to impress or do otherwise let alone bed into the side.
-
Bradley didn't get much of a chance, and in the chances he did get, the game passed him by.
It was unfortunate for him, really, that the managerial situation changed, and the club found themselves needing to make a decision on whether to go ahead with the deal or not. It was always likely to be a no, given those circumstances.
-
Imagine Fellaini in our midfield instead of Petrov, a big, pretty intimidating guy who can pass and also score the odd goal.
That's the kind of player we need.
I find him one of the most overrated players in the league tbh.
I disagree. I think he would be a perfect fit for our midfield (although I'm not a fan of his constant elbowing). He's reasonably mobile and an absolute giant so it should allow Bannan to play centrally without us being too small.
I fear he'd cost in excess of 10m so he could be beyond our means at the moment.
He should also have written into his contract. Grow hair as much as humanly possible and stand in front of the oppo's goalkeeper.
-
Imagine Fellaini in our midfield instead of Petrov, a big, pretty intimidating guy who can pass and also score the odd goal.
That's the kind of player we need.
I find him one of the most overrated players in the league tbh.
I disagree. I think he would be a perfect fit for our midfield (although I'm not a fan of his constant elbowing). He's reasonably mobile and an absolute giant so it should allow Bannan to play centrally without us being too small.
I fear he'd cost in excess of 10m so he could be beyond our means at the moment.
He should also have written into his contract. Grow hair as much as humanly possible and stand in front of the oppo's goalkeeper.
Goes without saying !
He's just a name that came to mind, he's young and has masses of complimentary ability.
As VN says, beyond our wafer thin budget sadly or a January raid would make sense while offloading Ireland I guess.
We're putting our hopes on Jenas, I hope he delivers, we really do need to get more cohesive as a unit, sometimes you watch the team play and it looks like they don't know each other and it's all about individual rather than collective play.
But that's another point.