Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Compass on September 20, 2011, 10:01:25 PM
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Fulham - Good result, uninspiring performance (Given saved us)
Blackburn - Great result, decent performance
Hereford - Good result, decent performance (took us 80 mins until we scored)
Wolves - Decent result, decent performance
Everton - Good result, terrible performance
Newcastle - Decent result, terrible performance (Given saved us yet again)
Bolton - Awful result, shambolic performance
It's not getting better is it in the grand scheme of things? He may have improved our defence but any manager can do that with the same negative tactics. At the same time though he has destroyed our attack and midfield. We haven't looked a proper threat this season at all and we seem to be going backwards. I can't see a victory against QPR. It seems impossible at the moment.
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The bloke is a poor manager.
He was before we appointed him.
The club has made it's decision and is now paying the price, and it's not as if they weren't warned.
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Knee jerk reaction to a disappointing result tonight. Why don't we discuss the extent to which its the players rather than the manager's fault.
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Is nil-nil at home to the Wolves a decent result?
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Is nil-nil at home to the Wolves a decent result?
Nope.
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I have lost all faith in Mcleish.
At least under Houllier we tried to play. We have let 5 players from the starting 11 go and only replaced the goalkeeper, (N'Zogbia hasn't turned up yet)
I am so depressed.
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you can only work with what you've got. and i'm afraid, after Dowining and Young left there's very little to work with.
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apart from the obvious performance tonight. 2 out of 6 games Given has saved us. That means a third of our games this season we're gonna have teams pissing all over us. We can't afford to rely on him all season, i'd rather have players infront of him doing their job properly. We haven't even played anyone decent yet so i'd up that to half the games in the season that Given will have to be our man of the match.
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I have lost all faith in Mcleish.
At least under Houllier we tried to play. We have let 5 players from the starting 11 go and only replaced the goalkeeper, (N'Zogbia hasn't turned up yet)
I am so depressed.
You had faith in him?
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Is nil-nil at home to the Wolves a decent result?
It was a pretty fucking uninspiring peformance, too.
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Would have lost most of them drawn games, if it wasnt for given...the football so far has been dreadful
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Wolves a decent performance? It was abject. Shit result as well.
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McLeish destroyed our midfield did he?
Maybe selling Young, Downing and letting NRC go on a free and Makoun on a loan might have been the problem, no? And replacing them with N'Zogbia and Jenas? I'm sure McLeish told Randy he didn't want the £40m, so yes, lets blame McLeish... *rollseyes*
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McLeish destroyed our midfield did he?
Maybe selling Young, Downing and letting NRC go on a free and Makoun on a loan might have been the problem, no? And replacing them with N'Zogbia and Jenas? I'm sure McLeish told Randy he didn't want the £40m, so yes, lets blame McLeish... *rollseyes*
Nail on head.
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Never should have got rid of makoun, no creativity, no imagination, give it to collins and hoof it? Fucking brilliant. Thing is we knew it was going to be shit and he hasn't let us down has he and wolves at home was shite. Can't wait to play manure and city they are going to destroy us
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Is nil-nil at home to the Wolves a decent result?
Nope.
Neither is a draw at home to Newcastle.
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Hmm, let's see.
N'Zogbia is a flop so far. McLeish bought him.
Albirghton is doing poorly. Houllier did better with him.
Makoun was sent on loan to bring Jenas (wow!!!) who's injured straight away.
He keeps playing Delph who's in poor form (Bannan is the better alternative)
Fair enough Downing and Young being sold wasn't his fault.
It's not just the midfield players though. It's the tactics. Delph and N'Zogbia would shine more if they had a free role, but at the moment they're playing too deep and they look pathetic, N'Zogbia especially.
And yes, Wolves was a decent result seeing as we lost against them at home last season and drew in the season before that one.
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He should without question have been given another 10 million to spend with parameters that the players brought into the club were young and thus could enhance their reputation to be sold at profit, as the midfield is not strong enough. Makoun was not the answer IMO, and was pretty average in the games he played last season, but Blues midfield of ferguson, Bowyer and Gardner were stronger than our right now.
We need to pray Jenas brings his best form as we need him to badly. Delph, Jenas and Petrov might need to start together to give us a foothold in a game to go forward.
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He should without question have been given another 10 million to spend with parameters that the players brought into the club were young and thus could enhance their reputation to be sold at profit, as the midfield is not strong enough. Makoun was not the answer IMO, and was pretty average in the games he played last season, but Blues midfield of ferguson, Bowyer and Gardner were stronger than our right now.
We need to pray Jenas brings his best form as we need him to badly. Delph, Jenas and Petrov might need to start together to give us a foothold in a game to go forward.
yep. never rated jenas but we better hope he's wound up to prove some people wrong. After tonight i've given up on Ireland ever coming good.
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And yes, Wolves was a decent result seeing as we lost against them at home last season and drew in the season before that one.
kinda says it all really when a fucking awful 0-0 draw with Wolves is seen as a good result.
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Hmm, let's see.
N'Zogbia is a flop so far. McLeish bought him.
Albirghton is doing poorly. Houllier did better with him.
Makoun was sent on loan to bring Jenas (wow!!!) who's injured straight away.
He keeps playing Delph who's in poor form (Bannan is the better alternative)
N'zogbia being slated after what 5 games and barely any pre-season? Whatever
Albrighton faded last season
Makoun wasn't played by monsiour houllier last season
Delph has looked good to me, its heskey bannan should replace
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I would not have trusted him with another £10m
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Things can only get better. I hope.
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I didn't see the match, but the problem under McLeish has been the team hasn't looked anything like a coherent unit so far. The performance against Blackburn was good, but they looked even more disjointed in that match. The core of the problem is the midfield, as noted many times. I hope that McLeish has an idea of how to solve this, if not I can't see us picking up many points. We will, however, be scrambling for a tough-tackling midfielder with PL experience in January. The immediate answer is to try Clarke or maybe even Gardner in a midfield three.
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We are absolutely clueless going forward...one shot on target against Bolton reserves with almost a full strength first XI at home??? I didnt see all of the Newcastle game but reports suggest we didnt create much in front of goal either? Fucking pathetic.
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The one positive about tonight is that he surely must realise that the centre of midfield needs a drastic rethink. The signs have been there in each game this season, and how utterly overrun we've been at times.
Presumably he wanted to give the Petrov-Delph axis a run (I know Fabian didn't play tonight).
We're kind of fucked for options for the anchorman we need (forget Reo-Coker, I wouldn't mind having Hogg back right now), so surely he'll put three midfield, maybe giving Clark his head there alongside Jenas and Petrov (who I'm resigned to thinking will be an ever-present).
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losing 2-0 to Bolton?
It has started.
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And yes, Wolves was a decent result seeing as we lost against them at home last season and drew in the season before that one.
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By that logic , Man united will be ecstatic if they manage to scrape a draw at Old Trafford against Wolves as they lost against them last season
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When I looked at the kind run of opening fixtures i thought that maybe a bit of false confidence could be gained by riding high in the league and scoring a few goals before we faced anyone decent.
The lack of goals/chances and the way our midfield has been overrun by some pretty average teams is a cause for serious concern. The worry now is that if our players are struggling for confidence already, and performing badly, what shape are we going to be in when we have a run of tough games?
Also it's not as if we have a load of superstars sitting on the bench who can be brought in*. It is going to rely on tactical and coaching changes from Mcleish and so far there is no evidence that he is capable of doing it. I made a post when he was appointed that the justification from the board was based on a lot of 'what ifs' and crossing of fingers and that there was very little evidence on his CV to back up this faith. Now that he is here we just have to ride this out and hope that he can do something different.
*It says it all that on WM they were calling for Gardner to be brought on to change the fortunes of what was not far off being our first team. He has a lot of potential but bringing kids into the team with that level of expectation could destroy them
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The one positive about tonight is that he surely must realise that the centre of midfield needs a drastic rethink. The signs have been there in each game this season, and how utterly overrun we've been at times.
Presumably he wanted to give the Petrov-Delph axis a run (I know Fabian didn't play tonight).
We're kind of fucked for options for the anchorman we need (forget Reo-Coker, I wouldn't mind having Hogg back right now), so surely he'll put three midfield, maybe giving Clark his head there alongside Jenas and Petrov (who I'm resigned to thinking will be an ever-present).
what worries me is how the fan can see it , yet these so called experts with their coaching teams who are being paid bloody good money can't ..
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What we need is to find the next Big Ron Atkinson to bring in the players and crowd and proper football. I am sick off too many poor/unispiring performance. I want big games and big performance and entertainment. Villa deliver none. We were poor once Little resigned. O'Leary, Gregory, O'Neill and Houllier and McLeish are not good enough.
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McLeish has had to come into a club which dont forget were staring at relegation in April, and have since lost their two star players who gave them width.
Unforunately the width that is there now is as yet not compensating for that loss.
Albrighton is failing to receive service and when he does he seems to have lost his ability to cross. N'Zogbia appears as yet not to have arrived at all.
The low point for me last night was that we finished up screaming to bring N'Zogbia on, just three days after we had been screaming for him to be taken off.
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What we need is to find the next Big Ron Atkinson to bring in the players and crowd and proper football. I am sick off too many poor/unispiring performance. I want big games and big performance and entertainment. Villa deliver none. We were poor once Little resigned. O'Leary, Gregory, O'Neill and Houllier and McLeish are not good enough.
agreed.
I said it on here before - McLeish won't last 12 months at Villa.
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Hmm, let's see.
N'Zogbia is a flop so far. McLeish bought him.
Albirghton is doing poorly. Houllier did better with him.
Makoun was sent on loan to bring Jenas (wow!!!) who's injured straight away.
He keeps playing Delph who's in poor form (Bannan is the better alternative)
We all thought that N'Zogbia was going to be a great signing. Hasn't worked so far, but should in long term.
Albrighton has been rubbish for months, even under Houllier. So overrated.
Makoun, as good a player as he is, didn't impact as much as he should have, but should have ben given more of a chance. We didn't know Jenas would get injured straight away, he is a good signing I feel.
Delph has been playing really well, not sure where this common opinion of him being in poor form has come from?!
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What we need is to find the next Big Ron Atkinson to bring in the players and crowd and proper football. I am sick off too many poor/unispiring performance. I want big games and big performance and entertainment. Villa deliver none. We were poor once Little resigned. O'Leary, Gregory, O'Neill and Houllier and McLeish are not good enough.
agreed.
I said it on here before - McLeish won't last 12 months at Villa.
He'll be here at least as long as Lerner is.
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and that is a crying shame.
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What we need is to find the next Big Ron Atkinson to bring in the players and crowd and proper football. I am sick off too many poor/unispiring performance. I want big games and big performance and entertainment. Villa deliver none. We were poor once Little resigned. O'Leary, Gregory, O'Neill and Houllier and McLeish are not good enough.
agreed.
I said it on here before - McLeish won't last 12 months at Villa.
He'll be here at least as long as Lerner is.
Exactly.
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I haven't had the oppurtunity to visit VP this season as I now work and live in London (cancelling my 15yr long season ticket just to costs if I'm honest travel etc) but anyhow I digress, my grandfather went last night and this is a mail he sent me this morning of his summing up of the game last night and where we are, as I said I haven't been up this year so don't know how much of this rings true but I think he does hit the nail on the head regarding "non football people" at the top but here we go;
"No I'm deeply depressed today, I'm a kill joy I had the envious luck of Ryan getting me a ticket and went up to watch the dross, around a 25k attendance which has to be applauded.
Honestly I think we're in serious trouble, In my opinion he (McLeish) wasted 10million on N`Zog when we needed a tackler in midfield, loans out Makoun and gets in Jenas ( don't even let me start!! ha-ha! ) Gets shot of Lukey Young and gets in my opinion an "average" Hutton, we still persist to keep Ireland and I do appreciate how hard it is to sell players ( not our best ones though but outside factors did play a part in a few ) but how many more chances does this "profesional need!!! One shot on target and that was the traffic cone Collins in around the 89th minute it was moribund , no movement couldn't even string two passes together Bolton's reserves destroyed us, Petrov thinks he's lampard, Dunne and Collins need a silver bullet, Delf and Gabby are Championship at best and our midfield got over ran time and time again, but don't worry we're tighter at the back apparently?!?!
We're on a hiding to nothing nearer Christmas, honestly Craig I wouldn't be surprised if our sponsors pulled the plug as we were using them for far east exposure it's shocking!! the football is beyond negative. :( Plus the shambles that was the appointment of McLeish I wouldn't put any money on Randy getting it right again, we need Steve Stride back in the boardroom not the wet blanket that's Faulkner we're a mess! No football men at the top!!!!!"
Not here to stir just posting the opinion of a 50yr supporting Villa fan and he's my grandad so don't be too harsh :P
do you think he's got a point about bringing in a "Steve Stride" type apoointment and apologies for the long post.
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The finger has to be pointed at the players imo. I'm sick of changing managers and frankly i wouldn't rate Ferguson's chances of motivating some of the individuals in our squad.
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I'm sorry all this about money not being spent is garbage, fact is we have a better squad than he had with Birmingham but he is serving up the same tripe he did with them. We lack width for a 4-5-1, he needs to change it to a 4-3-3. With Jenas, Petrov, Delph in the middle, with N'Zogbia given a free role to roam behind Bent and Gabby, I can understand away from home try 4-5-1 but at home we should not be playing in this way. Yes we lost Young and Downing, huge losses however we are a mid-table side and we should be playing like one but we're playing like a team looking at relegation. It's a joke, McLeish hasn't a clue, 87mins for 1 shot on goal is abysmal i'm afraid and it's the way he sets the team up. The buck lies with the manager, it lied with Houllier last season so it lies with McLeish, he still has a decent team to be doing better.
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I'm sorry all this about money not being spent is garbage, fact is we have a better squad than he had with Birmingham but he is serving up the same tripe he did with them.
From what I've seen I think we're much worse at this moment in time
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I have a real conundrum.
I have worked in London for 16 years now, and have 2 boys aged 6 and 8 who were born down south.
I was adamant that I wouldn't buy them anything other than Villa stuff, and wouldn't take them to anything other than Villa games. Their friends support Arsenal, Chelsea etc. but I am desparately keen for them to follow the true path aof light and virtue.
It is becoming increasingly clear however that I may well be setting them up for a life of despair and misery. I was thinking of taking them to their first Villa game (Wigan at home - our best chance of a result and so the best chance of inoctrinating them).
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We have to many players who are to comfortable with where they are in their careers. We have a lot of players who are content with their lot, happy to tread water and earn good wages. Villa at the moment is like an old soft comfortable settee for these players.
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I said it on here before - McLeish won't last 12 months at Villa.
Ooooh, no. He's in for the long haul, IMO. He's doing exactly what he was brought in to do.
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I'm sorry all this about money not being spent is garbage, fact is we have a better squad than he had with Birmingham but he is serving up the same tripe he did with them.
From what I've seen I think we're much worse at this moment in time
We shouldn't be is the point!!!
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I haven't had the oppurtunity to visit VP this season as I now work and live in London (cancelling my 15yr long season ticket just to costs if I'm honest travel etc) but anyhow I digress, my grandfather went last night and this is a mail he sent me this morning of his summing up of the game last night and where we are, as I said I haven't been up this year so don't know how much of this rings true but I think he does hit the nail on the head regarding "non football people" at the top but here we go;
"No I'm deeply depressed today, I'm a kill joy I had the envious luck of Ryan getting me a ticket and went up to watch the dross, around a 25k attendance which has to be applauded.
Honestly I think we're in serious trouble, In my opinion he (McLeish) wasted 10million on N`Zog when we needed a tackler in midfield, loans out Makoun and gets in Jenas ( don't even let me start!! ha-ha! ) Gets shot of Lukey Young and gets in my opinion an "average" Hutton, we still persist to keep Ireland and I do appreciate how hard it is to sell players ( not our best ones though but outside factors did play a part in a few ) but how many more chances does this "profesional need!!! One shot on target and that was the traffic cone Collins in around the 89th minute it was moribund , no movement couldn't even string two passes together Bolton's reserves destroyed us, Petrov thinks he's lampard, Dunne and Collins need a silver bullet, Delf and Gabby are Championship at best and our midfield got over ran time and time again, but don't worry we're tighter at the back apparently?!?!
We're on a hiding to nothing nearer Christmas, honestly Craig I wouldn't be surprised if our sponsors pulled the plug as we were using them for far east exposure it's shocking!! the football is beyond negative. :( Plus the shambles that was the appointment of McLeish I wouldn't put any money on Randy getting it right again, we need Steve Stride back in the boardroom not the wet blanket that's Faulkner we're a mess! No football men at the top!!!!!"
Not here to stir just posting the opinion of a 50yr supporting Villa fan and he's my grandad so don't be too harsh :P
do you think he's got a point about bringing in a "Steve Stride" type apoointment and apologies for the long post.
Think your grandad's got it pretty spot on to be fair! The only thing I'd really disagree with is Gabby being Championship standard - I'd agree with him about the Fonz though. Oh - and the attendance was 22261 (including 261 Bolton fans) not 25k!
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I have lost all faith in Mcleish.
At least under Houllier we tried to play. We have let 5 players from the starting 11 go and only replaced the goalkeeper, (N'Zogbia hasn't turned up yet)
Do you really think that McLeish had much say in who left and who didn't come?
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I have a real conundrum.
I have worked in London for 16 years now, and have 2 boys aged 6 and 8 who were born down south.
I was adamant that I wouldn't buy them anything other than Villa stuff, and wouldn't take them to anything other than Villa games. Their friends support Arsenal, Chelsea etc. but I am desparately keen for them to follow the true path aof light and virtue.
It is becoming increasingly clear however that I may well be setting them up for a life of despair and misery. I was thinking of taking them to their first Villa game (Wigan at home - our best chance of a result and so the best chance of inoctrinating them).
No conundrum there, ev, you know what you have to do.
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I have a real conundrum.
I have worked in London for 16 years now, and have 2 boys aged 6 and 8 who were born down south.
I was adamant that I wouldn't buy them anything other than Villa stuff, and wouldn't take them to anything other than Villa games. Their friends support Arsenal, Chelsea etc. but I am desparately keen for them to follow the true path aof light and virtue.
It is becoming increasingly clear however that I may well be setting them up for a life of despair and misery. I was thinking of taking them to their first Villa game (Wigan at home - our best chance of a result and so the best chance of inoctrinating them).
No conundrum there, ev, you know what you have to do.
Villa have never beaten Wigan at home in the Premier League.
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I have a real conundrum.
I have worked in London for 16 years now, and have 2 boys aged 6 and 8 who were born down south.
I was adamant that I wouldn't buy them anything other than Villa stuff, and wouldn't take them to anything other than Villa games. Their friends support Arsenal, Chelsea etc. but I am desparately keen for them to follow the true path aof light and virtue.
It is becoming increasingly clear however that I may well be setting them up for a life of despair and misery. I was thinking of taking them to their first Villa game (Wigan at home - our best chance of a result and so the best chance of inoctrinating them).
No conundrum there, ev, you know what you have to do.
Villa have never beaten Wigan at home in the Premier League.
So maybe ev's kids could be there to see history - cheaply too from what I hear.
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What we need is to find the next Big Ron Atkinson to bring in the players and crowd and proper football. I am sick off too many poor/unispiring performance. I want big games and big performance and entertainment. Villa deliver none. We were poor once Little resigned. O'Leary, Gregory, O'Neill and Houllier and McLeish are not good enough.
agreed.
I said it on here before - McLeish won't last 12 months at Villa.
I've been saying Xmas or thereabouts since he was appointed.
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The scariest thing about last night was on paper not one of the players that started worried me on lack of ability or fitness.
Yet the amount of times players were looking to the bench to ask where they or others were meant to be it looked like they had all met in the car park 5 mins before kick off
Do they actually do any training?
Hutton - worst FB i have ever seen in a villa shirt - prior to Everton Herd was MOTM - why the heck did we buy this dross
Bannan - MOTM in CM for Scotland - now played on the wing?
Ireland - he is more a CH than a CM so why the hell was he told to play there? If your going to play him then he fills the whole behind a striker
Fonz - a decent striker - played on the wing??
I want to see sharp, concise passing in CM, i want to wingers (If we are going to play with them) getting to bylines and whipping crosses in, I want to see strong DM's chomping at the bit to get into tackles, i want to see full backs racing down the flanks and overlapping wingers
How fucking hard can that be?
The Randy argument about finances is for another day - the players we have are not bad players and most would get into teams outside the top 4/5
Where and more importantly how they are told to play is the problem
And that lies with only one person - i was prepared like most to stand by him and the board for his appointment but 5 games in he has reverted to type exactly as my nose mates said he would
Non entertaining dross where not losing is the KPI and anything else is a bonus - in fact speaking with a nose recently he spoke of MC as if he was watching him week in week out at VP
No flair, no imagination, and where we moaned about lack of plan B with MON - this guy does not even have a plan A
If we dont cut our losses its going to get even worse - the man is clueless
For the critism Houllier got you could see a plan taking shape and some of the football we played was pretty good (it was a few dissenting prima donnas in the camp that was his downfall) what i would give to have him back now
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And that lies with only one person - i was prepared like most to stand by him and the board for his appointment but 5 games in he has reverted to type exactly as my nose mates said he would
And the best bit? The crowning turd in the waterpipe?
Randy paid 3m quid to SHA to take him off their hands. Pure genius.
You couldn't make it up.
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And that lies with only one person - i was prepared like most to stand by him and the board for his appointment but 5 games in he has reverted to type exactly as my nose mates said he would
And the best bit? The crowning turd in the waterpipe?
Randy paid 3m quid to SHA to take him off their hands. Pure genius.
You couldn't make it up.
Just think we're probably cutting back our squad because the amount of cock ups Randy has made with the managers by paying out compensations each time. Unbelieveable. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually miss Doug Ellis :o He may have been tight (like Randy is right now), but at least he cared and never in a million years would he have hired this farce of the manager we have right now.
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And that lies with only one person - i was prepared like most to stand by him and the board for his appointment but 5 games in he has reverted to type exactly as my nose mates said he would
And the best bit? The crowning turd in the waterpipe?
Randy paid 3m quid to SHA to take him off their hands. Pure genius.
You couldn't make it up.
Just think we're probably cutting back our squad because the amount of cock ups Randy has made with the managers by paying out compensations each time. Unbelieveable. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually miss Doug Ellis :o He may have been tight (like Randy is right now), but at least he cared and never in a million years would he have hired this farce of the manager we have right now.
Not so sure about missing Doug tbh but i agree totally that he knew / cared / loved the club enough to have not appointed such a bad choice as AM especially in regards to PR. I know DOL was a crap choice but he came with a decent rep, there is just no sense in AM unless it is to have a patsy to run the team on a shoe string
I did not want to beleive that Lerner had lost the plot - i even thought AM could show what an astutue bit of business Randy had done - regrettably my hopes were dashed and the invevitability of it all depresses me
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Look at the start he had last season for Blues - not bad at all!
P 6 W1 D4 L1
Top 10 after 6 games, but 15 draws and 15 defeats 8 wins wasn't enough!
And for us:
P5 W1 D4 L? - we haven't played anyone with any pedigree yet either, the run over Xmas and in April will be really tough.
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Hookey, I think that your point on the KPI is bang on. I wasn't there last night I had far more pressing matters to do with family last night, but the reports and that I have heard and read worries me intensely.
I honestly feel that unless AMc manages to get some formula that turns things round, either by luck or nous, I think that we are looking at a Relegation battle
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McLeish destroyed our midfield did he?
Maybe selling Young, Downing and letting NRC go on a free and Makoun on a loan might have been the problem, no? And replacing them with N'Zogbia and Jenas? I'm sure McLeish told Randy he didn't want the £40m, so yes, lets blame McLeish... *rollseyes*
Nail on head.
Yeh and offload L Young and replace with Hutton. Does anyone actually believe that Mcleish is in charge of transfer policy?
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Look at the start he had last season for Blues - not bad at all!
P 6 W1 D4 L1
Top 10 after 6 games, but 15 draws and 15 defeats 8 wins wasn't enough!
And for us:
P5 W1 D4 L? - we haven't played anyone with any pedigree yet either, the run over Xmas and in April will be really tough.
The problem at Blues was the clean sheets dried up and they very rarely scored which is a recipe for disaster. They scored 37 goals in 38 games which is laughable. As soon as we don't keep clean sheets on a regular basis we're fucked because we hardly have 2 shots on target let alone score 2 goals.
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We are playing 70s style football again, with exprienced players that only know that one way of playing, that's why they were anti Houllier. Can you blame any of our better players for looking elsewhere?
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Sadly we're seeing the results of losing Milner, Young and Downing over the last year. It was bad last season, and it's only gonna get worse. Bent aside, and Given, the standard we're signing is dropping, and the calibre of manager since O Neill has gone down one peg with Houllier, followed by several pegs to McLeish who lets face it, is a poor mans O Neill.
We are literally void of a decent central midfielder. Jenas is a persistent underachiever and injured at the moment. Petrov can't run anymore, Delph doesn't look up to it, Bannan is too small to play without 1-2 tough tackling players to protect him, and Ireland needs to play a free role. That however requires a system to be shaped around fitting him in. I don't believe he's good enough for that. In addition he needs someone with the ability of Robinho to work off. He doesn't have that luxury here.
It's not all McLeish's fault. We're solid, tough to beat (with the exception of falling apart against Bolton's B-team) and work hard. Obviously we miss Ash and Downing's creativity. Albrighton too, contributed a lot in the first half of last season, but he's looked piss poor this season. He needed to step up and take the mantle lft, but he's bottling it.
I'm disappointed to admit ust how much we're missing Downing too. I thought we'd done excellent business with N'Zog to replace him, but so far I've been proved wrong. He's far too inconsistent. He only got going in the run in last season. That might well be something that saves us this year, but we're better than a relegation scrap each season. At least, we deserve better!
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We are playing 70s style football again, with exprienced players that only know that one way of playing, that's why they were anti Houllier. Can you blame any of our better players for looking elsewhere?
Which part of the 70s?
As I recall that meant a rigid 442, a big target man and defenders who kicked fuck out of anything that moved? That's miles away from where we are.
I think we're making the mistake of seeing an inevitable period of transition as something more profound.
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He drew 15 or 16 games at SHA last season so I joked when we appointed him that with better players he'd draw 20 games this season. Uh oh.
It's worrying me all these draws now as when winter comes and we have a few more injuries and suspensions, that is the time we'll be playing Manure, Arsenal and Liverpool all in a row at VP followed by away games at Stoke and Chelsea. We need some wins quick before that period otherwise it will just be a repeat of last season.
And if anyone thinks Jenas will be some sort of saviour to this team, they're goiing to be pretty disappointed.
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We are playing 70s style football again, with exprienced players that only know that one way of playing, that's why they were anti Houllier. Can you blame any of our better players for looking elsewhere?
Which part of the 70s?
As I recall that meant a rigid 442, a big target man and defenders who kicked fuck out of anything that moved? That's miles away from where we are.
I think we're making the mistake of seeing an inevitable period of transition as something more profound.
Indeed, but everything is either brilliant or fucking shite Chris, you know that, you can't have your cake and eat it with this 'transition' nonsense.
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No question we are missing vital cogs, problem is we are not replacing anything like the quality of player going out with player coming in and we have to do that, we are getting good money for these players.
That said even if we where getting the quality would they do the job under McLiesh, hypothetical but IMO, I doubt it.
Performance so far....................very ordinary.
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I would argue that we are tough to beat.
Wait until we have played teams that are likely to finish in the top 10 and see how hard to beat we are then.
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I would argue that we are tough to beat.
Wait until we have played teams that are likely to finish in the top 10 and see how hard to beat we are then.
You could argue that.
You could also argue also that there are some Villa fans desperate for us to cave in so they can be proved right.
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I would argue that we are tough to beat.
Wait until we have played teams that are likely to finish in the top 10 and see how hard to beat we are then.
You could argue that.
You could also argue also that there are some Villa fans desperate for us to cave in so they can be proved right.
If I hear any more nonsense that the Villa fans unhappy with the current situation care more about their own egos being massaged than the team doing well I'm going to explode.
Nothing would make me happier than if Eck proves us all wrong in the long term, that this is a genuine and necessary transition towards more fluid, attacking, possession-based football built on a solid base, that Heskey is the past and Bannan the future, that N'Zog settles in, that we get some entertainment at Villa Park that perhaps makes up for our lessened ability to challenge at the top any more. The problem is, I find it genuinely hard to imagine any of that being the case.
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What is the point in lying and pretending we are going to do well, are hard to beat, have fantastic kids etc etc when it's not true?
I also seem to remember our team of 76/77 being the most exciting Villa team i have ever had the pleasure of watching
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What is the point in lying and pretending we are going to do well, are hard to beat, have fantastic kids etc etc when it's not true?
I also seem to remember our team of 76/77 being the most exciting Villa team i have ever had the pleasure of watching
What's the point in having hope or optimism? Have teams you've watched never improved over time?
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he even finished 3rd in scotland once! i think hell do a good job here though hes building a solid team thats hard to beat so if we can just get a creative midfielder in we'll be okay
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he even finished 3rd in scotland once! i think hell do a good job here though hes building a solid team thats hard to beat so if we can just get a creative midfielder in we'll be okay
It is sometimes surprising what the introduction of a couple of key players can do.
A bit of muscle and a bit of vision in midfield could well be the catalyst of a very good side. A lot of discussion has gone on about players being played out of position. Much of that is down to necessity but rellay good players will shine wherever you put them within reason.
I still think that the improved performances of Dunne, Warnock and Gabby are down to the new regime. It is not all bad. It just takes time.
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Monty you beat me to it and expressed the doubters' case very well. I was going to ask Chris very courteously what he thought the transition was transition to. I can live with jam tomorrow but I at least want to catch a glimpse of the jam jar and maybe even the corner of the label and a bit of a picture of a strawberry.
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I would argue that we are tough to beat.
Wait until we have played teams that are likely to finish in the top 10 and see how hard to beat we are then.
You could argue that.
You could also argue also that there are some Villa fans desperate for us to cave in so they can be proved right.
I agree with you. It’s difficult to put your finger on, but I get this intangible sense that there is an atmosphere of expectation where some fans are almost eager for us to slip up.
Fuck them.
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Don't forget to add to 3rd in Scotland, Rangers worst ever run of 10 games without a win came under Mcleish
Still everything will be fine when jenas and heskey are fit
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I would argue that we are tough to beat.
Wait until we have played teams that are likely to finish in the top 10 and see how hard to beat we are then.
You could argue that.
You could also argue also that there are some Villa fans desperate for us to cave in so they can be proved right.
I agree with you. It’s difficult to put your finger on, but I get this intangible sense that there is an atmosphere of expectation where some fans are almost eager for us to slip up.
Fuck them.
Other than the odd weirdo, I can't think of anybody who would ever actually want Villa to lose, or in the other common accusation, that they don't like McLeish because of his Small Heath connection.
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Sadly we're seeing the results of losing Milner, Young and Downing over the last year. It was bad last season, and it's only gonna get worse. Bent aside, and Given, the standard we're signing is dropping, and the calibre of manager since O Neill has gone down one peg with Houllier, followed by several pegs to McLeish who lets face it, is a poor mans O Neill.
We are literally void of a decent central midfielder. Jenas is a persistent underachiever and injured at the moment. Petrov can't run anymore, Delph doesn't look up to it, Bannan is too small to play without 1-2 tough tackling players to protect him, and Ireland needs to play a free role. That however requires a system to be shaped around fitting him in. I don't believe he's good enough for that. In addition he needs someone with the ability of Robinho to work off. He doesn't have that luxury here.
It's not all McLeish's fault. We're solid, tough to beat (with the exception of falling apart against Bolton's B-team) and work hard. Obviously we miss Ash and Downing's creativity. Albrighton too, contributed a lot in the first half of last season, but he's looked piss poor this season. He needed to step up and take the mantle lft, but he's bottling it.
I'm disappointed to admit ust how much we're missing Downing too. I thought we'd done excellent business with N'Zog to replace him, but so far I've been proved wrong. He's far too inconsistent. He only got going in the run in last season. That might well be something that saves us this year, but we're better than a relegation scrap each season. At least, we deserve better!
A very fair assessment.
The problem is that you could go unbeaten in the league by drawing every game, and get relegated with 38 points.
What is so tough to handle is that we had hope until MON left, now the arc is downwards, where we will bottom out, i do not know.
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One thing I noted about AM's first after match interview is that he seems clearly worried about the team spirit. He referred to the Penalty incident where it was only Gabby who was claiming for one. I think he is on to something, we do lack a real team spirit, there doesn't seem to be that "togetherness" about this squad.
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There is a lack of togetherness full stop. Board, fans, managers, players the whole lot. Warnock mentioned it about the fans not calling for a penalty too. There is a lot of negativity around the club at the moment and general apathy. Which isn't surprising given the last 18 months of so of failures and falling apart.
A couple of good wins and performances would sort out some of it, as would a decent cup run.
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One thing I noted about AM's first after match interview is that he seems clearly worried about the team spirit. He referred to the Penalty incident where it was only Gabby who was claiming for one. I think he is on to something, we do lack a real team spirit, there doesn't seem to be that "togetherness" about this squad.
Genuinely don't think the other players ( nor supporters) thought it was a penalty.
Nowt to do with lack of togetherness, more to do with lack of understanding of each other.
If we'd played the 2nd half as badly as the 1st I could agree with this l;ack of togetherness, but it's more ( as Benty says) about getting the team to gel.
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I was encouraged a little by yesterday's second half. Signs of better passing and movement, and slight improvements from Ireland and Hutton. It's virtually a new team, apart from the defence, and it's perhaps telling that the defence are the best performers at the moment.
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The first 20 minutes of the second half yesterday are an example of how we should be playing all the time. Midfielders passing short, moving into space etc etc.
Bannan and Ireland are crucial. They are miles ahead of our other players in terms of ability to do this. They both MUST start every game. I'd like to see Clark in for Delph to give us a little more solidity, and possibly Bent to play alongside Gabby when fit, with N'zogbia given a spell on the sidelines.
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Sadly we're seeing the results of losing Milner, Young and Downing over the last year. It was bad last season, and it's only gonna get worse. Bent aside, and Given, the standard we're signing is dropping, and the calibre of manager since O Neill has gone down one peg with Houllier, followed by several pegs to McLeish who lets face it, is a poor mans O Neill.
Apart from Young , Milner and Downing all the other players Mon brought in were very average to crap. The standard of player being brought in now have yet to prove themselves. The calibre of managers after Mon are on par if not more successful than Mon.
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One thing I noted about AM's first after match interview is that he seems clearly worried about the team spirit. He referred to the Penalty incident where it was only Gabby who was claiming for one. I think he is on to something, we do lack a real team spirit, there doesn't seem to be that "togetherness" about this squad.
Genuinely don't think the other players ( nor supporters) thought it was a penalty.
Nowt to do with lack of togetherness, more to do with lack of understanding of each other.
If we'd played the 2nd half as badly as the 1st I could agree with this l;ack of togetherness, but it's more ( as Benty says) about getting the team to gel.
It's not just the penalty in isolation, there's lots of other stuff happening all over the pitch. For instance, Warnock when he screwed up in the first half (as he usually does) where he lost position. Dunne/Collins and Petrov should have been bollocking him to pull his socks up. Delph trying his 'fancy flicks', again, Petrov should be on his case.
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Monty you beat me to it and expressed the doubters' case very well. I was going to ask Chris very courteously what he thought the transition was transition to. I can live with jam tomorrow but I at least want to catch a glimpse of the jam jar and maybe even the corner of the label and a bit of a picture of a strawberry.
I think I caught sight of it Brian. It looked yellow and had the words 'Morrissons' 'value' and 'mixed fruit' on it. All very disappointing really.
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The first 20 minutes of the second half yesterday are an example of how we should be playing all the time. Midfielders passing short, moving into space etc etc.
Bannan and Ireland are crucial. They are miles ahead of our other players in terms of ability to do this. They both MUST start every game. I'd like to see Clark in for Delph to give us a little more solidity, and possibly Bent to play alongside Gabby when fit, with N'zogbia given a spell on the sidelines.
All true, but re. N'Zog - Wigan next, maybe it will serve to ignite his career at VP ?
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The first 20 minutes of the second half yesterday are an example of how we should be playing all the time. Midfielders passing short, moving into space etc etc.
Bannan and Ireland are crucial. They are miles ahead of our other players in terms of ability to do this. They both MUST start every game. I'd like to see Clark in for Delph to give us a little more solidity, and possibly Bent to play alongside Gabby when fit, with N'zogbia given a spell on the sidelines.
All true, but re. N'Zog - Wigan next, maybe it will serve to ignite his career at VP ?
Could be, I just get the impression that a reality check of sorts might help him. I think hes a good player, but his forms been poor. Maybe an angry N'zogbia coming of the bench could help.
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The first 20 minutes of the second half yesterday are an example of how we should be playing all the time. Midfielders passing short, moving into space etc etc.
Bannan and Ireland are crucial. They are miles ahead of our other players in terms of ability to do this. They both MUST start every game. I'd like to see Clark in for Delph to give us a little more solidity, and possibly Bent to play alongside Gabby when fit, with N'zogbia given a spell on the sidelines.
All true, but re. N'Zog - Wigan next, maybe it will serve to ignite his career at VP ?
Can't see why, it didn't against Newcastle.
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There were clear signs yesterday that we are not far off being a useful side. It's still about getting the balance right and getting the confidence up of one or two who are under performing. I have a feeling that one day soon it will all click and we will give somebody a good stuffing.
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There were clear signs yesterday that we are not far off being a useful side. It's still about getting the balance right and getting the confidence up of one or two who are under performing. I have a feeling that one day soon it will all click and we will give somebody a good stuffing.
Hope you're right Chris, as there have been far more signs of us being a dreadful side recently. Half an hour of decent play against a newly promoted QPR managed by Neil Warnock isn't enough to convince me I'm afraid.
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There were clear signs yesterday that we are not far off being a useful side. It's still about getting the balance right and getting the confidence up of one or two who are under performing. I have a feeling that one day soon it will all click and we will give somebody a good stuffing.
A few tweaks and a bit of muscle in the middle - yep I reckon you are right.
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2nd half yesterday, there was without question real encouraging signs that the players get McLiesh, that's an important point because in spite of what people throw at players who are now outing there views about Houllier, the obvious problem was that players simply where not on the same wavelength as Houllier, in the case of McLiesh we visibly witnessed a shocking poor first 45, then witnessed a totally different side emerge from the dressing room after the team chat at half time completely rejuvenated.
So McLiesh can do that, what's important now is how we carry that forward to the next game, game after that and so on.