Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Lambert and Payne on September 16, 2011, 11:36:36 PM
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What do you consider to be the biggest derby in Britain or even the World. Is it our own with sha? Early kick offs and the numerous times we've played hasn't changed anything imo.
Millwall v West Ham this weekend plus the old firm. I personally don't rate the sky derbys (lplop manure aside). I also think the millwall west ham games are overrated, it will die down when they've played each other a few times and its only big because of films like green street anyways.
What about the lower league games? The likes of exeter v plymouth and swindon v oxford? The hatred is pretty intense even though they don't have the millions of supporters that manure and man city (these days) have..
For me its the old firm, the hatred goes from football and way beyond. I know the old firm are generally hated on here but these games are huge.
What's the biggest derby in your opinions and why?
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In Britain it's the Old inFirm, no question.
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The Old Firm, despite the inevitable (and warranted) criticism of both halves, is a huge deal when you're in its gravitational field.
Arsenal/Spurs is a nice event, where they've each had periods on top and the odd upset, and they've often meant something for football reasons.
I think us/Blues, Millwall/West Ham, Wolves/Baggies, Swansea/Cardiff, Newcastle/S'land are all about the needle between the fans and too infrequently about what's at stake on the pitch in terms of trophies.
man Utd/Liverpool isn't a derby as far as I'm concerned.
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As much as I detest the Small Heath shitbags, I'd imagine that the Rangers/Celtic hatred pisses all over everyone. But I still want SHA to lose every single game that they ever play, even if it had Fred West playing rush goalie against them.
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Celtic v Rangers
Liverpool v Man Utd
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Boca v River, before River got relegated. Obssesses the whole continent when it's played... both have generally been contenders for Copa Libertadores while the Old Firm haven't had a proper go at the European Cup in nearky two decades. I don't think many people outside the British Isles, excluding Scottish/Irish diaspora, care much about Celtic-Rangers.
I suspect that history will be re-written in the years to come and that in ten years time Sky will have made Manchester City vs Manchester United "The Biggest Derby In The World(TM)".
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Boca v River, before River got relegated. Obssesses the whole continent when it's played... both have generally been contenders for Copa Libertadores while the Old Firm haven't had a proper go at the European Cup in nearky two decades. I don't think many people outside the British Isles, excluding Scottish/Irish diaspora, care much about Celtic-Rangers.
Sure, they might not care about it but I bet they know about it. Just like Boca/River for people outside South America.
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The biggest "rivalry game" (to use American jargon) is definitely Barca-Real Madrid. Not a derby though... unless they move to a European Super League then it will be classed as one!
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Indeed. Like Liverpool and Man Utd they both have derbies against teams from their own cities.
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What about internationals, our own England v Scotland has to be up there along with Brazil v Argentina, Holland v Germany always intense too.
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What about internationals, our own England v Scotland has to be up there along with Brazil v Argentina, Holland v Germany always intense too.
Afraid not.
Scotland are to Engerland as the sha are to the Villa.
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The Muratti cup between Jersey and Guernsey, mental.
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Considering the amount of times they play each other and that they still retain the passion they do, then the Celtic-Rangers derbies have to be the biggest. It's not even just about Glasgow as their rivalry also extends outside of the country and across the Irish sea.
Having said that, I've been to three - one at each of Ibrox, Parkhead and Hampden, and as fierce and passionate as they were, none of them were a patch on the Villa-Blues atmosphere/rivalry/hatred in those first few derbies when the rags came up in 2003.
The best derby for me is Arsenal-Spurs. It's nearly always a cracking game of football. The worst is Liverpool-Everton, for the opposite reason.
The Manc derbies this season should be interesting - back to the level they were at in the late sixties.
As for us, we haven't got a derby this season - despite what some on here will try and tell us!
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Boca v River plate before relegation was watched by a massive population. Rangers v Celtic following is not even half in numbers terms .........
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I think Manchester has now taken over from Glasgow when you compare the two.
MU/MC 70000 & 48000 attendances Vs Celtic/Rangers 60000 & 50000 respectively.
With the influx of cash, MC v MU rivalry has really intensified more over the last 3 years to rival anything in Britain. Add to that the quality of players both teams have in their squads, and both teams being likely to be challenging for honours at the end of season, i cant see any other current derby rivaling those Mancs.
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The Milan derby's pretty big
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Glasgow derby for me then the madrid vs barca one is also spicy.
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1. Celtic v FC Skint
2. River v Boca
3. Barca v Real Madrid
4. Panathinaikos v Olympiacos (burn the port)
5. Fenerbahce v Galatasaray
All the teams I favour listed first.
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Got to be Celtic v Rangers.
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I'd go for Boca v River. Always wanted to go to the la bombonera
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Roma v Lazio gets pretty tasty
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I read that Iraq vs Iran was once of the worst derbies in the world, and then I'd perhaps add in England vs Scotland, Boca Juniors vs River Plate, and The Old Firm derby.
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Celtic and Rangers.
Ipswich-Norwich always captures my interest as well as the Merseyside derby (particularly when Everton win it) and Brighton-Crystal Palace can be a bit tasty even if at first glance you would wonder why these two particular teams hate each other - something to do with Alan Mullery back in the 70s i believe.
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The Muratti cup between Jersey and Guernsey, mental.
The Guernsey futu is testament to that.
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Oxford v Cambridge. They both ALWAYS get to the final of the boat race.
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I find that the Celtic/Ranger combo seems to happen too often now for me - kind of diluted it's excitement.
Having said that, I do not live in Scotland so have never experienced that effect up there....
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Stourbridge vs The Yeltz
You have to be there!
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Oxford v Cambridge. They both ALWAYS get to the final of the boat race.
I always wonder who Big Fat Ron supports for this.
Must be a clever bloke having been at both.
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El'Classico
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El Salvador v Honduras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War)
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1. Celtic v FC Skint
2. River v Boca
3. Barca v Real Madrid
4. Panathinaikos v Olympiacos (burn the port)
5. Fenerbahce v Galatasaray
All the teams I favour listed first.
Barca v Real Madrid's not a derby though is it? Ok it's a big game but that's like calling Man U v Chelsea a derby
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Barca-Real Madrid a derby? Really? The two cities are 300 miles apart! Fierce rivalry? Yes. Derby? No.
A derby is a game played between two teams from the same town or city. I can also accept that being extended to a wider, yet distinct geographical region, e.g. in this country, Newcastle-Sunderland, Norwich-Ipswich, Southampton-Portsmouth. Beyond that it fails to be a derby.
So to answer the question.
England? Probably at this moment Man Utd - City
UK? Rangers-Celtic
As for the rest of the world, there's too many to choose from, but what I've seen of Boca-River Plate is something approaching war.
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1. Celtic v FC Skint
2. River v Boca
3. Barca v Real Madrid
4. Panathinaikos v Olympiacos (burn the port)
5. Fenerbahce v Galatasaray
All the teams I favour listed first.
Barca v Real Madrid's not a derby though is it? Ok it's a big game but that's like calling Man U v Chelsea a derby
In Spain, the word "Derby" has no geographical meaning, it just means "Big Game". Hence El Classico is also referred to as the Derby.
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I'd go for Boca v River. Always wanted to go to the la bombonera
If we are only talking football than there is no point in talking about anything other than this Boca Juniors v River Plate. That is the biggest derby without any doubt. Unfortunately River Plate are struggling in the B division this season so Boca fans have to resort to fighting with either Argentinos Juniors or All Boys supporters.
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I also think the millwall west ham games are overrated, it will die down when they've played each other a few times and its only big because of films like green street anyways
Now that's absolute nonsense.
Rivalry between East London and Sarf East London pre-dates football. Are you saying that Millwall and West Ham have only been rivals since a few recent hooligan films?
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In Spain, the word "Derby" has no geographical meaning, it just means "Big Game". Hence El Classico is also referred to as the Derby.
I don't think we should use that as the definition, otherwise we'll end up with examples, just like in American sports, where the participants come from cities hundreds, if not thousands of miles apart.
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I've been to the Roma vs lazio derby.
That was an eye opener!!
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In Spain, the word "Derby" has no geographical meaning, it just means "Big Game". Hence El Classico is also referred to as the Derby.
I don't think we should use that as the definition, otherwise we'll end up with examples, just like in American sports, where the participants come from cities hundreds, if not thousands of miles apart.
It's known as El derbi Espaņol. I think that's a pretty good reason to refer to it as a derby.
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There's a good book called "Us V Them" that I read a few years ago which is well worth a read. Its written by an English guy who travels the world going to several derbies. From memory I think the Boca/River one was the most memorable, but he also went to Glasgow, Prague, North London (Sol Campbells first derby for Arsenal!), and El Classico (Figo's first derby for Real when he had a Pig's head thrown at him).
At the above game at the Nou Camp, FC Barcelona provided every fan (approx 90,000) with a whistle to blow whenever Figo touched the ball!!
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Nothing beats it for noise and atmosphere.
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A few years back in the NatWest Cup, Derbyshire County Cricket Club played Derbyshire Cricket Board in a Derbys derby in Derby.
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In Spain, the word "Derby" has no geographical meaning, it just means "Big Game". Hence El Classico is also referred to as the Derby.
I don't think we should use that as the definition, otherwise we'll end up with examples, just like in American sports, where the participants come from cities hundreds, if not thousands of miles apart.
It's known as El derbi Espaņol. I think that's a pretty good reason to refer to it as a derby.
The word and the sentiment behind the word might be similar, but it doesn't mean I have to accept it as being the same. Just as most right thinking Castilian or Catalan would look at what we in England describe on menus up and down the land as 'tapas' and feel that both their language and cultural heritage had been bastardised.
Sorry they might call it a derby, but a derby it ain't.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_derby
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Got to be Celtic v Rangers.
They both run from Clyde.
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Got to be Celtic v Rangers.
They both run from Clyde.
So would you. Did you ever see Clyde Best play? He was bloody enormous. ;D
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out of the ones I know I'd say Celtic rangers is a biggie. Not just about football but religion.
On internationals there's a few with history behind them
England Germany
Poland Germany
England Argentina
Turkey Germany
Most of them based on wars and politics. Just proving that sports and politics dont sit too easily.
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I'd say Germany v England/Poland isn't a proper rivalry as the Germans don't give a toss. England are to Germany what Coventry are to Villa.
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out of the ones I know I'd say Celtic rangers is a biggie. Not just about football but religion.
On internationals there's a few with history behind them
England Germany
Poland Germany
England Argentina
Turkey Germany
Most of them based on wars and politics. Just proving that sports and politics dont sit too easily.
If we're talking Internationals, you'd have to add
England Scotland
Germany Netherlands
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In Spain, the word "Derby" has no geographical meaning, it just means "Big Game". Hence El Classico is also referred to as the Derby.
I don't think we should use that as the definition, otherwise we'll end up with examples, just like in American sports, where the participants come from cities hundreds, if not thousands of miles apart.
And just to prove my point...
England Argentina
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Internationally, Argentina v Brazil and Argentina v Uruguay are worthy of mention.
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I also think the millwall west ham games are overrated, it will die down when they've played each other a few times and its only big because of films like green street anyways
Now that's absolute nonsense.
Rivalry between East London and Sarf East London pre-dates football. Are you saying that Millwall and West Ham have only been rivals since a few recent hooligan films?
Maybe I worded it wrong, its massive but I don't think the result on the pitch matters to most. And its only getting mass recognition in recent times because of the media. Some west ham ham fans don't see millwall as there derby
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A derby has a different dynamic when the 2 rivals share the same city or area.
It's different knowing that when you go to work on the Monday you will have to work side by side with your rivals after a defeat/victory.
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El Clasico and Old Firm are the two biggest in Europe, IMO.
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Rangers v Celtic will always be the biggest and most intense in Britain, purely because of the religious side of things.
The Manchester derby is one of the biggest now because they're arguably the two best teams in the country now and they'll both be challenging for the title.
Villa v Blues, Sunderland v Newcastle, Swansea v Cardiff, Southampton v Portsmouth, Wolves v Albion, Millwall v West Ham are all up there and are intense. Looking forward to Leeds v Man Utd on tuesday, theres real hatred there and it will be tasty to say the least.
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Coventry vs Villa ;D
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villa v blues no1. celtic rangers hatred is mostly religious based not football.
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What about internationals, our own England v Scotland has to be up there along with Brazil v Argentina, Holland v Germany always intense too.
France vs Italy
Spain vs Portugal
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As for us, we haven't got a derby this season - despite what some on here will try and tell us!
:-X :P
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As for us, we haven't got a derby this season - despite what some on here will try and tell us!
:-X :P
Come & have a pint with me in Rowley when we play the stripeyfilth, then try telling me after the game that this game don't matter.
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out of the ones I know I'd say Celtic rangers is a biggie. Not just about football but religion.
On internationals there's a few with history behind them
England Germany
Poland Germany
England Argentina
Turkey Germany
Most of them based on wars and politics. Just proving that sports and politics dont sit too easily.
If we're talking Internationals, you'd have to add
England Scotland
Germany Netherlands
Germany Holland is much bigger than Germany England.
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Turkey Greece and Egypt Algeria have an edge.
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They didn't get any bigger than Bromsgrove Rovers vs Reddshit Utd.
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Isn't Sevilla v Real Betis quite a violent one? Think I remember the managers got involved in a bit of a fight only a couple of years ago.
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This one was pretty tasty
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14400675.stm
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I'd go for Boca v River. Always wanted to go to the la bombonera
If we are only talking football than there is no point in talking about anything other than this Boca Juniors v River Plate. That is the biggest derby without any doubt. Unfortunately River Plate are struggling in the B division this season so Boca fans have to resort to fighting with either Argentinos Juniors or All Boys supporters.
Aftab, I was at the Bombonera 5 years ago, but just for a normal league game. The atmosphere was very good - the fans behind each goal literally are singing from the start to finish of each half and see it as their duty as supporters to do so. There is one song they sing in each half (about half way through) where the fans are bouncing up and down and it looks like a giant tidal wave which really is amazing.
However there was something all a bit surreal about the support in that it all felt choreographed and detached from the action on the pitch, albeit with great passion. For example, Quilmes, the opposition, were awarded a penalty and the Boca fans did not break stride, just carried on with their song. When Boca were awarded a penalty it wa sthe same, no rejoicing, carry on till the end of the song, but go mad when the goal is scored.
I felt that it was as if the supporters' role was to provide noise in the form of a loud and constant soundtrack, but it did not reflect the ebb and flow of the game - no build up of tension at corners, counter attacks, penalties etc, that I associate with the English game. I was at a run of the mill league game, and on the side not behind the goal however (my hotel had told me that if the barras bravas found out I was English it could get tricky). It would have been great to have attended a derby - and support River of course, not the Boca bluenoses.
The ground is a dilapidated shithole by the way, but has an aura about it that new shiny grounds can never achieve.
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out of the ones I know I'd say Celtic rangers is a biggie. Not just about football but religion.
On internationals there's a few with history behind them
England Germany
Poland Germany
England Argentina
Turkey Germany
Most of them based on wars and politics. Just proving that sports and politics dont sit too easily.
If we're talking Internationals, you'd have to add
England Scotland
Germany Netherlands
Germany Holland is much bigger than Germany England.
Agreed, the Dutch still speak of the 1988 Euro win in Germany as if the event made up for the invasion during WWII
Locally of course you can add in Feyenoord v Ajax, two teams who hate each other so much that they can only refer to one another by the dial code (010 Feyenoord and 020 Ajax).