Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Lucky Eddie on September 14, 2011, 10:59:18 PM

Title: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Lucky Eddie on September 14, 2011, 10:59:18 PM

A lot of criticism of Randy on here and constant reference to his/their/our five year plan.

Truth is the whole worlds changed since Villa wrote their five year plan. How many of us who were going on foreign holidays and every away game five years ago can afford to do it now? How many of us who climbed the 'property ladder' in the nineties and noughties  bit off a little more than they can comfortably chew in 2011?

If you're not affected then you're in the fortunate minority but Randy's not the only one to have lost a few quid and finds himself re evaluating his future!

He's a Villa fan less well off than he was five years ago - just like every other Villa fan I know.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Vanilla on September 14, 2011, 11:10:46 PM
Yes, but most Villa fans have seen the prices rise for tickets, shirts etc without seeing their wages rise. So they are expected to put a higher percentage of their earnings in the club.

Under this argument, the less investment by Randy in the club will equal more modest expenditure, the decline of calibre of players at the club and the decline in ambition (or realism as most people are now calling it). This should equal at least a freeze in ticket prices for the next few years.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Risso on September 14, 2011, 11:20:52 PM
I don't really think you can compare somebody who inherited a fortune, and who has therefore been free to do pretty much whatever he likes in life, with ordinary fans who may have lost their job or otherwise faced financial hardship through no fault of their own.  Nobody forced Lerner to pay Heskey and Beye the stupid amounts they earn.  The money he has lost at Villa is entirely his own fault.

Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: old man villa fan on September 15, 2011, 12:02:48 AM
I don't really think you can compare somebody who inherited a fortune, and who has therefore been free to do pretty much whatever he likes in life, with ordinary fans who may have lost their job or otherwise faced financial hardship through no fault of their own.


Different arguement to the OP.

The point made was that times have changed and Lerner's circumstances have changed, just like many fans.

I don't think many people are saying that he has not made mistakes in how he has backed his managers.  The sooner the decks are cleared of the overpaid players that do not offer value for money, the better.

Like many, I will be upset if the club is run by only balancing the books without some investment because I do not believe Lerner can market the club well enough to raise our turnover significantly and lacks the experience of building a club from the bottom.

Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: MarkM on September 15, 2011, 08:21:02 AM

A lot of criticism of Randy on here and constant reference to his/their/our five year plan.

Truth is the whole worlds changed since Villa wrote their five year plan. How many of us who were going on foreign holidays and every away game five years ago can afford to do it now? How many of us who climbed the 'property ladder' in the nineties and noughties  bit off a little more than they can comfortably chew in 2011?

If you're not affected then you're in the fortunate minority but Randy's not the only one to have lost a few quid and finds himself re evaluating his future!

He's a Villa fan less well off than he was five years ago - just like every other Villa fan I know.

Taking the emotion away and concentrating on the business side, the strategic plan the club had should have had assesment points built in that would allow a change to be made if circumstances dictated it.

We do seem to have seen some major knee jerk reactions over the past 18 months that would suggest that the club failed to appreciate the potential impact of there actions and suddenly woke up one morning and thought "crap, this isnt working what are we going to do?"

The five year plan should have been an outline framework that could be changed if needed, but it needed to be closely monitored and policed to ensure it was relevant to the current circumstances
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: TimTheVillain on September 15, 2011, 08:25:25 AM
I wonder what Randy's 5 year plan would be if he wrote it today ?

Apparently, there was no 5 year plan it has been said ....
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Dave Javu on September 15, 2011, 08:37:02 AM
His 5 year investment in Aston Villa has been a much better investment than his shares in the Bank of America as this interesting link (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BAC#symbol=bac;range=5y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;) demonstrates.

Down around 85-90%...
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 15, 2011, 08:41:59 AM
Yes, but most Villa fans have seen the prices rise for tickets, shirts etc without seeing their wages rise. So they are expected to put a higher percentage of their earnings in the club.

Under this argument, the less investment by Randy in the club will equal more modest expenditure, the decline of calibre of players at the club and the decline in ambition (or realism as most people are now calling it). This should equal at least a freeze in ticket prices for the next few years.

Hmmmm, A more accurate analogy would be if any fans that own a business.  Have they raised their prices due to any number of factors - fuel increases, desperation etc etc
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on September 15, 2011, 08:54:12 AM
I don't think there was a plan, he threw money at it for a while, a lot of it was spent in vain, Heskey, Beye, Sidwell etc, if we'd have brought Bent when we were 4th then I think we would have stayed there, since then its all about saving money. Depressing state of affairs at the moment
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: DB on September 15, 2011, 08:59:25 AM
Five year plan??? Did anyone watch Citeh last night? Because that's it right there. The only thing that matters is money and how much. Sure you can talk about plans for the club, training facilities, improvements to catering etc, but what most of us want iis inprovement on the pitch, unless you have the cash and lots of it like City then 5 year plans mean squat. 5 years ago City were a mid-lower prem side going no-where then in comes the millions - now look at them. We don't have a pt to p*ss in compared to them, Chelsea etc.
We'll bring a player through the ranks or buy a youngster, develop him and when he's good enough the top wage players will snap him up. Doom and gloom I know, but that's the way it is.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: willywombat on September 15, 2011, 09:07:29 AM
I imagine his most immediate plan is to get out of the money pit he has found himself in ASAP. Let's all hope he's as dilligent about who he sells the club to as Doug was. I feel for RL, a decent man who understands the history and traditions of this great club but, due mainly to the financial meltdown, has found himself now out of his depth.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Concrete John on September 15, 2011, 10:23:10 AM
I don't think he's out of his depth, but he has had a reality check over the last year or two with the financial collapse and the man City investment. 

What the new longterm strategy is remains to be seen, but I'm guessing it will revolve around youth, both our own and purchases, to allow us to try and compete without the massive finances of some other clubs.  The problem we'll have is that unless we actually achieve something then we'll see the next generation of Youngs, Milners and Downings (Clark, Bannan, Delph & Albrighton?) leave us in a few years time and the cycle will start again.   
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 15, 2011, 10:27:07 AM
The worrying thing is the degree to which it looks like his strategy was "shit or bust".

Nobody was complaining when we were spending big on players, but we might have done had we known how utterly abruptly it would stop.

Having said that, though, I don't think our major problem is lack of investment, it is that the club has looked for a long while like it is run by well intentioned bumbling amateurs.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: willywombat on September 15, 2011, 10:37:00 AM
The worrying thing is the degree to which it looks like his strategy was "shit or bust".

Nobody was complaining when we were spending big on players, but we might have done had we known how utterly abruptly it would stop.

Having said that, though, I don't think our major problem is lack of investment, it is that the club has looked for a long while like it is run by well intentioned bumbling amateurs.


Difficult to argue with that paulie
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Concrete John on September 15, 2011, 10:40:12 AM
The worrying thing is the degree to which it looks like his strategy was "shit or bust".

I don't think 'shit or bust' is right, but rather 'invest until we get into the CL'.  We didn't and the worldwide financial climate means we can't keep trying as we were.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 15, 2011, 10:47:28 AM
The worrying thing is the degree to which it looks like his strategy was "shit or bust".

I don't think 'shit or bust' is right, but rather 'invest until we get into the CL'.  We didn't and the worldwide financial climate means we can't keep trying as we were.

We haven't just stopped trying to get into the CL, though, John, it's much more severe than that.

We couldn't take James McFadden (free agent) on because of his wages. That's the kind of financial reality we are now operating under.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Chris Smith on September 15, 2011, 11:01:19 AM
The plan was based around growing revenue through improved attendances leading to ground expansion, greater commercial sponsorship and widening the  hospitality packages available There are myriad reasons why that didn't work out but that's why we are now in a period of restructure.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Risso on September 15, 2011, 11:05:40 AM
The plan was based around growing revenue through improved attendances leading to ground expansion, greater commercial sponsorship and widening the  hospitality packages available There are myriad reasons why that didn't work out but that's why we are now in a period of restructure.

That and the absolute ridiculous lack of control over outgoings.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Chris Smith on September 15, 2011, 11:10:54 AM
The plan was based around growing revenue through improved attendances leading to ground expansion, greater commercial sponsorship and widening the  hospitality packages available There are myriad reasons why that didn't work out but that's why we are now in a period of restructure.

That and the absolute ridiculous lack of control over outgoings.

Yes, in hindsight that is obviously true but if the first part had been achieved it would have been much less of an issue.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: willywombat on September 15, 2011, 11:11:47 AM
I cant see it any other way. He is  in my opinion, actively looking for a buyer
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Concrete John on September 15, 2011, 11:14:16 AM
The worrying thing is the degree to which it looks like his strategy was "shit or bust".

I don't think 'shit or bust' is right, but rather 'invest until we get into the CL'.  We didn't and the worldwide financial climate means we can't keep trying as we were.

We haven't just stopped trying to get into the CL, though, John, it's much more severe than that.

We couldn't take James McFadden (free agent) on because of his wages. That's the kind of financial reality we are now operating under.

Did we turn down McFadden due to his wages or due to them being too much for HIM?  Given what we've seen with the Sidwells and Beyes, and he's probably be asking a lot as he's on a free, I can see that being a part of our more stringent "Let's think about this first" approach.

Had he been asking for less or a better player, it may have happened.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Chris Smith on September 15, 2011, 11:35:37 AM
I know from a good source that McLeish treats the money as if it were his own. If he doesn't think a player is worth the money then he doesn't need the board to tell him.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Fuse on September 15, 2011, 02:53:13 PM
I cant see it any other way. He is  in my opinion, actively looking for a buyer

I agree totally. Our only hope is that he can find someone who has an endless supply of money, a vision for success and a team of people who cna make it happen. Should be a piece of piss!! ;-)
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: brontebilly on September 15, 2011, 02:57:49 PM
How much does AVFC owe RAL does anyone know?

I know we pay millions each year in interest payment to RAL but what is the principal?

Is it possible Lerner could do the same as the Pompey chairman and demand his money back.

Lerner has no one to blame but himself for the state of the books at AVFC. He signed the cheques for Heskey, Beye et al. The value of someone like Levy at Spurs makes some difference.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on September 15, 2011, 03:38:51 PM
Not signing Mcfadden wasn't exactly a bad thing though
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 15, 2011, 05:34:05 PM
Not signing Mcfadden wasn't exactly a bad thing though


No but if the reason is that we couldn't afford him, it's a bad thing.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: ez on September 15, 2011, 08:24:04 PM
Piece in the Daily Mail. Sorry if its already been posted.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2037446/Belts-tightened-Aston-Villa.html
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 16, 2011, 01:24:42 AM
Piece in the Daily Mail. Sorry if its already been posted.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2037446/Belts-tightened-Aston-Villa.html

Have a look at the comments underneath and see the name from the recent past which jumps out.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Dave Cooper please on September 16, 2011, 01:29:29 AM
Not signing Mcfadden wasn't exactly a bad thing though

No but if the reason is that we couldn't afford him, it's a bad thing.

But not wanting him because the wages he wanted made him not worth it is a good thing.
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: UsualSuspect on September 16, 2011, 08:52:03 AM
I cant see it any other way. He is  in my opinion, actively looking for a buyer

I have thought that for a while

get the club on a better financial footing and get rid


As much as it pains me to say it, I can see us being exactly like Everton. No money to invest, no-one want's to by so just the same old drudgery year in year out
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: not3bad on September 16, 2011, 09:04:06 AM
I cant see it any other way. He is  in my opinion, actively looking for a buyer

If that's true he's going to have trouble.  Not exactly a seller's market is it?
Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: UsualSuspect on September 16, 2011, 09:53:18 AM
I cant see it any other way. He is  in my opinion, actively looking for a buyer

If that's true he's going to have trouble.  Not exactly a seller's market is it?

Hence us ending up like Everton - unfortunately

Title: Re: Five year plans yours/ours
Post by: Simon Ward on September 16, 2011, 10:24:33 AM
I have to say my five year plan is back on track from Sunday as the eldest gets packed off to university again!
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