Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on September 12, 2011, 08:17:01 PM

Title: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 12, 2011, 08:17:01 PM
Let's start this one again, and this time without the stories from mates of mates about footballers with expensive lawyers. You know you can do it.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: lovejoy on September 12, 2011, 08:20:21 PM
C4 are reporting that the player is Garry O'Connor whilst at Blues- if he is the "top player" then I'm disappointed. The programme also showed Eck talking about him being off due to having an operation. To me this reflected badly on Eck. It could be argued he was a bare faced liar.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: hipkiss92 on September 12, 2011, 08:20:25 PM
Can we name everyone on the Dispatches programme?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on September 12, 2011, 08:25:05 PM
What happened to the other thread? To be fair if blues told mcleish to lie what can he do?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: The Man With A Stick on September 12, 2011, 08:27:57 PM
It's been pubic knowledge about O'Connor for months?  He was arrested wasn't he?

You only had to watch the useless bugger play to work out he was hepped up on goofballs.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on September 12, 2011, 08:31:53 PM
These people ain't top players what a let down
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: lovejoy on September 12, 2011, 08:48:42 PM
That Player A is always in trouble, nearly as badly as Mr X.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: TheSandman on September 12, 2011, 08:57:02 PM
It's been pubic knowledge about O'Connor for months?  He was arrested wasn't he?

Twice.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Holtenderinthesky on September 12, 2011, 08:58:33 PM
What is the point in an investigation designed to expose the cheats in our game when it refers to the cheaters as "player A"?  An absolute waste of an hour of the life of everyone who watched that programme imo.  The players get away with it once again it seems.  When will we have a programme that names and shames these players?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Dante Lavelli on September 12, 2011, 08:58:52 PM
C4 are reporting that the player is Garry O'Connor whilst at Blues- if he is the "top player" then I'm disappointed. The programme also showed Eck talking about him being off due to having an operation. To me this reflected badly on Eck. It could be argued he was a bare faced liar.

It's also possible that the club used the imposed drug ban to have the described operation. 

Either way, who really cares.  I'm surprised that all these interviewed fans think that the players should be named and shamed.  My personal view is that these "secret" bans are a pretty effective way of punishing the player whilst allowing him the opportunity to kick any addictions.  I also think that this way does not glamorise drugs in anyway whereas I fear that releasing names and the follow up interview with shamed premier league player would just raise cocaine's profile even further.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Holte L2 on September 12, 2011, 08:59:35 PM
It was public knowledge about O'Conner. I hope he kept the receipt for whatever he brought.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: charlie on September 12, 2011, 09:08:45 PM
Much hype, little of real groundbreaking news, much ado.....................
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on September 12, 2011, 09:56:08 PM
so it is not worth watching then.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 12, 2011, 10:06:17 PM
Total waste of time. Zero revelations of interest.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: bertlambshank on September 12, 2011, 10:07:50 PM
Dispatches is a very poor man's Panarama.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Clampy on September 12, 2011, 10:39:29 PM
Total waste of time. Zero revelations of interest.

And the host came across as a bit of an arse as well.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: newtonsballs on September 12, 2011, 11:48:49 PM
Media - all image, no content. What a shabby programme.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: willywombat on September 13, 2011, 02:46:13 AM
Quote from: The Man With A Stick

You only had to watch the useless bugger play to work out he was hepped up on goofballs.
[/quote

Love it!
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: darren woolley on September 13, 2011, 04:53:16 AM
Watched it when I knew it was one of Small Heath players being done for taking the Colombian marching powder I just thought I would have to take drugs to play for that lot.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Louzie0 on September 13, 2011, 05:14:04 AM
I was struck by the difference in the interpretation of the term, 'inconclusive'.  It was used in the letters to the FA from the professor in charge of the labs which processed the tests. 

He said that his expectation after he wrote this in a report was that more tests would be carried out on the player concerned for him to come to a definite conclusion. However, it seems that the FA read 'inconclusive' as 'That's all right then, nothing happening here, move on,' and didn't follow up at all.

It couldn't really be that daft, could it?  Players getting away with it because of a misinterpretation of a word?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Holtemeister on September 13, 2011, 07:34:03 AM
Young men loads of cash time on hands and party lifestyles ......... Are we really suprised
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Malandro on September 13, 2011, 08:30:25 AM
I'll give anyone £100 if they can prove that the England team has been taking performance enhancing drugs.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: UsualSuspect on September 13, 2011, 08:44:17 AM
C4 are reporting that the player is Garry O'Connor whilst at Blues- if he is the "top player" then I'm disappointed. The programme also showed Eck talking about him being off due to having an operation. To me this reflected badly on Eck. It could be argued he was a bare faced liar.

I agree

I thought it reflected badly on Mcleish but surprisingly those wearing the ginger specs on here fail to see it because daring to critisize a manager who lied about one of his players being injured because of a drugs ban means that you are not a real supporter.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Chris Smith on September 13, 2011, 08:58:15 AM
Was Graham Taylor equally wrong then for lying about Paul MGrath when he was absent for being pissed or receiving treatment for his addiction?

I reckon 99% of managers would do all they could to protect their player in similar circumstances.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Malandro on September 13, 2011, 09:39:16 AM
Total waste of time. Zero revelations of interest.

And the host came across as a bit of an arse as well.

You guys watch the Buck house thing too?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Ger Regan on September 13, 2011, 09:40:47 AM
I agree

I thought it reflected badly on Mcleish but surprisingly those wearing the ginger specs on here fail to see it because daring to critisize a manager who lied about one of his players being injured because of a drugs ban means that you are not a real supporter.
It would be easier to take some people's opinions at face value if it wasn't clear that they have agendas of their own.

As Chris said, I don't think you'd have many people on here criticising Taylor for how he handled McGrath, so why all of a sudden is McLeish in the wrong for (presumably, nobody really knows) trying to protect a troubled player?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Simon Ward on September 13, 2011, 09:43:03 AM
I'll give anyone £100 if they can prove that the England team has been taking performance enhancing drugs.

OR Emile Heskey?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Ger Regan on September 13, 2011, 09:44:02 AM
C4 are reporting that the player is Garry O'Connor whilst at Blues- if he is the "top player" then I'm disappointed. The programme also showed Eck talking about him being off due to having an operation. To me this reflected badly on Eck. It could be argued he was a bare faced liar.
That turn of phrase always makes me smile too. Very Fox News-esque. "Well I'm not calling him a liar, but it could be argued that he is".
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 13, 2011, 12:48:48 PM
Turned off halfway through having found nothing of any interest up to that point. Comments about the presenter spot on, it was very Brass Eye at times.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Mac on September 13, 2011, 12:58:29 PM
Total waste of time. Zero revelations of interest.

YESTERDAY:
Should be worth watching.

I bet you it isn't.  It'll be "isn't it shocking" but fail to deliver names.  Which surely is the point of this.

Another thing that's corrupt in our game.


Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Dave Cooper please on September 13, 2011, 01:29:19 PM
C4 are reporting that the player is Garry O'Connor whilst at Blues- if he is the "top player" then I'm disappointed. The programme also showed Eck talking about him being off due to having an operation. To me this reflected badly on Eck. It could be argued he was a bare faced liar.
That turn of phrase always makes me smile too. Very Fox News-esque. "Well I'm not calling him a liar, but it could be argued that he is".

Besides which, as mentioned in The Grauniad this morning, it is FA policy not to name players caught using recreational drugs, so McLeish was doing what the FA would have wanted him to do.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: lovejoy on September 13, 2011, 01:43:22 PM
I just think this idea of not going public is dodging the issue and basically a PR stunt to avoid tarnishing the "image of the game". if you take the example of Matt Stevens in rugby he has been made an example of but now (hopefully) successfully rehabilitated. frnakly I think football is in denial about a problem which exists.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Mac on September 13, 2011, 01:56:24 PM
It is an affront to other sportsmen that footballers can get away with failing or avoiding drug tests. Cycling gets hauled over the coals for every minor misdemeanour
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 13, 2011, 01:58:08 PM
The thing about cycling is there are so many misdemeanours to choose from, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Mac on September 13, 2011, 04:03:51 PM
Not compared to football, over the last couple of years, it would appear.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: pig on September 13, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
It is an affront to other sportsmen that footballers can get away with failing or avoiding drug tests. Cycling gets hauled over the coals for every minor misdemeanour

I think there is a big difference between "recreational drugs" and performance enhancing drugs. The more I think about it the more I think the FA are doing the right thing by not naming those who fail drugs tests for "recreational drugs". They are punished by receiving a ban, and it allows them and the club to organise some help for them, rather then kick them out of the sport.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: MalcolmP on September 13, 2011, 06:59:25 PM
Dispatches is a very poor man's Panarama.

And is Panarama a very poor man's Panorama?
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Ryu on September 14, 2011, 12:47:23 PM
the documentary tried its best to make you feel outraged that players who get caught using recreational drugs usually  aren't 'named and shamed' by their clubs and the media. I found myself not giving a toss. I mean, who would that benefit other than tabloids and their voyeuristic readership?

Its hard to argue with the anti doping people saying the testing system for performance enhancing drugs should be better, however.     
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Ger Regan on September 14, 2011, 12:50:11 PM
It's utter crap, the whole argument about how the fans, being the customer, have a right to know if a player fails a drugs test. If it happened to me in my job, I'm pretty sure the company wouldn't tell my clients, so what's the difference? And the whole "role model" thing is a load of nonsense too.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Ryu on September 14, 2011, 12:54:48 PM
Exactly right, Ger. Any parents who's kid sees Gary O'connor as a role model need to have a look at their own parenting!
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: lovejoy on September 14, 2011, 01:10:02 PM
It's utter crap, the whole argument about how the fans, being the customer, have a right to know if a player fails a drugs test. If it happened to me in my job, I'm pretty sure the company wouldn't tell my clients, so what's the difference? And the whole "role model" thing is a load of nonsense too.
Not sure I agree. When a player takes advertising money for endorsements he's putting himself in the shop window. I suspect a number of top players have significant income streams for endorsements and image rights as its part of Brand Premiership.

That turn of phrase always makes me smile too. Very Fox News-esque. "Well I'm not calling him a liar, but it could be argued that he is".
My feeble attempt to keep the thread 100% libel free. i am not sure if Eck is a bare faced liar but the way he was shown in the programme might suggest to some that he is.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: Ryu on September 14, 2011, 01:23:05 PM
Don't really agree with the sponsorship argument.  Rooney is hardly the most clean cut of characters and his face is everywhere, so I don't think this sort or personal issue would really affect most players appeal to sponsors.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: villabren on September 14, 2011, 09:09:45 PM
Big Ron claims there was two players using recreational drugs during his time as villa boss. He kept schtum, only mentioning after he left, and as far as I know, he's never named them
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 14, 2011, 10:06:58 PM
Big Ron claims there was two players using recreational drugs during his time as villa boss. He kept schtum, only mentioning after he left, and as far as I know, he's never named them

Hmmmm.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 14, 2011, 10:09:44 PM
Not compared to football, over the last couple of years, it would appear.

Not if that documentary is anything to go by.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: gervilla on September 14, 2011, 10:13:11 PM
Big Ron claims there was two players using recreational drugs during his time as villa boss. He kept schtum, only mentioning after he left, and as far as I know, he's never named them

Hmmmm.

I assumed one of these was a Scottish center forward that we had on loan  for a short spell, who was found out later to be very fond of the old devils dandruff.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 14, 2011, 10:16:06 PM
Big Ron claims there was two players using recreational drugs during his time as villa boss. He kept schtum, only mentioning after he left, and as far as I know, he's never named them

Hmmmm.

I assumed one of these was a Scottish center forward that we had on loan  for a short spell, who was found out later to be very fond of the old devils dandruff.

No, and please don't ask anymore.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: gervilla on September 15, 2011, 08:40:57 PM
Big Ron claims there was two players using recreational drugs during his time as villa boss. He kept schtum, only mentioning after he left, and as far as I know, he's never named them

Hmmmm.

I assumed one of these was a Scottish center forward that we had on loan  for a short spell, who was found out later to be very fond of the old devils dandruff.

No, and please don't ask anymore.

I didn't ask, I said "I assumed.." as in, since I heard that years ago I have always assumed he was one of the two.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: The Man With A Stick on September 15, 2011, 08:47:52 PM
Dispatches is a very poor man's Panarama.

And is Panarama a very poor man's Panorama?

Either that or a Panamanian Bananarama tribute act.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: brian green on September 15, 2011, 09:13:51 PM
Following the re examination of George Osborne's social life twenty years ago the very valid point was made yesterday that the consensus of medical research into the most dangerous drugs in Britain on a percentage basis rated smoking 48 alcohol 32 heroin 10 cocaine 6 marijuana 3 and ecstasy 1.

The only real difference between Berbatov smoking tobacco and "player A" using cocaine is the the government makes a lot of money out of tobacco so it is not regarded as a drug at all while cocaine (which was a standard dental treatment anaesthetic when I was a lad) makes them nothing.   The sooner we get politicians with the foresight and guts to legalize drug use the better but it is going to be a long long wait.
Title: Re: Drugs in football - 100% libel free
Post by: garyfouroaks on September 17, 2011, 05:51:23 PM
The "Drugs in football" argument is frequently misrepresented.

I am aware of no study which suggests that marijuana or cocaine, the two leading recreational drugs, have any performance enhancing effect on footballers.I believe that both drugs are used by some footballers, but with no positive performance effect.

The largely disappointing "Dispatches" highlighted the area of performance enhancing drugs both in terms of individual use, but more worryingly, the complicity of clubs in their use.

The Rio Ferdinand ban (for missing a drugs test, not for drugs use) flagged up concern in this area some years ago.How Rio forgot AND his club could not find him has never been satisfactorally explained.Although I wholly accept that the Authorities were satisfied that there was no wrong doing on the part of Rio or Man u - it did raise the hypothetical scnario of how clubs and players might collude to thwart drugs tests.
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