Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Archie on August 26, 2011, 10:49:16 AM

Title: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Archie on August 26, 2011, 10:49:16 AM
I have been very struck by the recent decision of the club to cut paltry expenses like the free cup tickets for the staff (when the stadium is half empty in the first cup ties) and the free Match Programmes for the Lions Clubs' chairmen.

Obviously I have no problems to pay the match programmes from now on, this is not the point.
What leaves me perplexed is that the sums that you can save with this plan of retrechment of expenses will be about 1/1000000 of the costs that you have for some average players with top player wages like Dunne, Beyč and others.
So, decisions like these, on one side don't improve the financial situation of the club and on the other side cut to the quick the most genuine part of the club, the staff and the fans, giving the strong impression that the property is preparing to sell up the club, and in order to do so must give the purchaser the impression that the books are balanced and that there are not useless expenses.

Obviously I hope to be wrong but this is my impression at the moment.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: The Villa Werewolf on August 26, 2011, 11:27:41 AM
I have been very struck by the recent decision of the club to cut paltry expenses like... the free Match Programmes for the Lions Clubs' chairmen.

RANDY OUT!
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: bertlambshank on August 26, 2011, 11:30:00 AM
Welcome to the world of commerce.Its always the little man who gets it first.I think your right about Randy looking to sell.
He has more than enough trying to get the Brown's off their arse,never mind worrying about us.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 26, 2011, 11:31:23 AM
Can't remember the last time I had a match day programme. Probably 10 years ago.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: nigel on August 26, 2011, 11:48:36 AM
I can't believe I see these "Randy Out" & "Randy going to sell" comments. (not just you werewolf & Paul)

I certainly can't see him selling, not in the near future anyhow.
Why would he invest so much into the club only to sell on at very little, if any, profit? I just doesn't make sense to me.
Personally I wouldn't want a Man City sort of owner either.

As for the "Randy Out" brigade. Be careful what you wish for, you only have to look across the City for proof of what might happen.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 26, 2011, 11:55:08 AM
Is there a Randy Out Brigade?
I see a Werewolf taking the piss and a few people who think Randy would sell if someone came up with the right money.
Certainly no Randy Out Brigade anyway.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: PaulTheVillan on August 26, 2011, 11:58:03 AM
Randy not out.
Randy not sell.

Thank you please.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: levico on August 26, 2011, 12:07:17 PM
It does look like Randy is trying to change the culture at the club - we see this happen in corporate life all the time. It's not always a bad thing but nevertheless I wouldn't be surprised if he was looking to sell. Hopefully if he does he will do the honourable thing and make sure that we don't have a SHA repeat. Surely there are still people with money left in the Arabian Gulf?
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: The Villa Werewolf on August 26, 2011, 12:13:25 PM
I can't believe I see these "Randy Out" & "Randy going to sell" comments. (not just you werewolf & Paul)

I wasn't being entirely serious.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: hutchavfc on August 26, 2011, 12:14:03 PM
If not to sell but more likely to attract some other investors
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 26, 2011, 12:21:40 PM
If not to sell but more likely to attract some other investors

I see Randy is now big pals with Warren Buffett. He seems to have a few billion to throw around.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 26, 2011, 12:36:43 PM
Cup tickets to staff aren't free for the club though are they?
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Steve Z on August 26, 2011, 01:13:10 PM
I hope Randy doesn't want to sell, Look at the majority of foreign owners...Are they supporters of the club?? Look at the Balckburn chicken eaters for example..they all must of thought, as were all big Balckburn supporters we'll buy the club, plough lots of money into it...Not a chance.
Its all a big business now, to make money nothing else.
We are lucky to have an owner who does support the Villa
Football is no longer the working mans sport!!  IMO
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: darren woolley on August 26, 2011, 01:40:41 PM
He wont sell I think he's just watching the finances as he hasn't got a bottomless pit to dip into.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Kevin Dawson on August 26, 2011, 01:53:08 PM
Just had an e-mail from the club tellling me that tickets are still available for tomorrow's 3.00 kick-off v Wolves.

Think I might miss the game then!!!
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: maidstonevillain on August 26, 2011, 02:32:10 PM

Why would he invest so much into the club only to sell on at very little, if any, profit? I just doesn't make sense to me.


Because he could have lost a significant proportion of his fortune since he purchased the club?
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: nigel on August 26, 2011, 02:45:27 PM
I can't believe I see these "Randy Out" & "Randy going to sell" comments. (not just you werewolf & Paul)

I wasn't being entirely serious.
That's good to hear werewolf.
Brigade was probably the wrong word to use as it makes it sound like a large number, in reality it's around 10 that I read on the other forums I go on.
There are several posters who regulary slate RL and over the last couple of months I've seen several posts regarding his imminent sale of the club.
I have say I laugh at "imminent sale" rumours as I cannot see any substance in them.
But, I do get a touch cheesed off reading from these idiots who want him out. 
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: not3bad on August 26, 2011, 02:45:46 PM
Is there a Randy Out Brigade?
I see a Werewolf taking the piss and a few people who think Randy would sell if someone came up with the right money.
Certainly no Randy Out Brigade anyway.

There are people out there who want Randy out, I have encountered them on t'internet. 
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 26, 2011, 02:50:02 PM
What leaves me perplexed is that the sums that you can save with this plan of retrechment of expenses will be about 1/1000000 of the costs that you have for some average players with top player wages like Dunne, Beyč and others.

Thoughts?

Whilst I understand your sentiment, the players you mention are all under contract so they are obligated to continue payments whereas the free programmes etc were given as a goodwill gesture by the club.  What is quite clear is that the club looks like they want to cut the fat/waste at all levels of the club so Beye etc will be gone once the contract situation can be resolved.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: andrew08 on August 26, 2011, 03:14:05 PM
I can't think of any occasion in all my time of watching Villa when I have ever felt it necessary to get a freebie.

I've always understood the relationship between a fan and a professional football club: We pay in money for which we get to watch football played by people who get paid to do so. At the point where we decide we don't want to do that anymore we stop going. Easy.

Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: richard moore on August 26, 2011, 03:22:02 PM
Watch the pennies and the pounds will follow is, I think, the saying we are looking for here

As proved by Luke Young now going!
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 26, 2011, 08:38:15 PM
Is there a Randy Out Brigade?
I see a Werewolf taking the piss and a few people who think Randy would sell if someone came up with the right money.
Certainly no Randy Out Brigade anyway.

There are people out there who want Randy out, I have encountered them on t'internet. 

There probably are, there are also people who want us to sell Gabby and others who think Habib Beye was a decent purchase, they are a small minority and in no way deserve the suffix 'brigade'.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Ads on August 26, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
If not to sell but more likely to attract some other investors

I see Randy is now big pals with Warren Buffett. He seems to have a few billion to throw around.

Buffet made $280million just the other day from some shar sales.

Stick it into B6 Warren, you know you want to.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Chris Smith on August 26, 2011, 11:36:57 PM
Watch the pennies and the pounds will follow is, I think, the saying we are looking for here

As proved by Luke Young now going!

Or you could have penny wise, pound foolish.

Never trust an aphorism.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: olaftab on August 27, 2011, 01:11:32 AM
Nomrally when Firms  take these steps it's always to get the  books to an healthy state  for disposal of the  business.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Villa'Zawg on August 27, 2011, 05:56:33 AM
I'm not sure you can read too much into this in terms of preparing the business for sale. What you can say for definite (I assume Archie is correct) is that the club has withdrawn these small perks from two groups of people that do more for the club than an average supporter.

Many of the staff are ardent supporters who will want to attend every game, their "salary package" has been reduced, the amounts may not be huge but it is something that will hit the lowest paid hardest.

The Lions club chairman are a group of people who do as much as any to promote the club throughout the world and those type of small perks help them to explain to people who don't know us, why Villa are "special".

I've no idea why a business of the size of AVFC would choose to cut costs in this way but when you see it happening, it's legitimate to wonder why they will have thought it necessary. What is going on in the minds of senior management to make them believe that cutting these miniscule expenses is a good thing to do?
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 27, 2011, 07:13:24 AM
I can't think of any occasion in all my time of watching Villa when I have ever felt it necessary to get a freebie.

Me neither. However, I have had freebies from the club.
Free coach travel to Chelsea a few years back for the LC game.
Free vouchers for the club shop when I was temporarily displaced from the old Trinity stand and forced into the Witton lane stand at the opening of one season. I still wear the two tops which I obtained.
And today, with it being a 12.05 kick off I am going to have my "free lunch" at half time. One free pie (worth £3) and one free tea/coffee (£1-80).
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Californian Villain on August 27, 2011, 07:32:28 AM
I'm not sure you can read too much into this in terms of preparing the business for sale. What you can say for definite (I assume Archie is correct) is that the club has withdrawn these small perks from two groups of people that do more for the club than an average supporter.

Many of the staff are ardent supporters who will want to attend every game, their "salary package" has been reduced, the amounts may not be huge but it is something that will hit the lowest paid hardest.

The Lions club chairman are a group of people who do as much as any to promote the club throughout the world and those type of small perks help them to explain to people who don't know us, why Villa are "special".

I've no idea why a business of the size of AVFC would choose to cut costs in this way but when you see it happening, it's legitimate to wonder why they will have thought it necessary. What is going on in the minds of senior management to make them believe that cutting these miniscule expenses is a good thing to do?

Yeah. I belong to a Lions club in California, and while we don't do much apart from get together to watch matches, the club chairman does devote a good deal of time to organizing that kind of stuff, and he distributes membership cards at his own cost. Seems a real shame that one of the few perks of doing this is being taken away by the club, especially when the amount involved is so small in the context of what some of the players get paid. In fact it's the sort of thing I would have expected from HDE.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Chris Smith on August 27, 2011, 08:18:28 AM
It should be rembered that players are notbthe only employees. If these efficiency savings means that somebody on the staff keeps their job then it's worthwhile.

Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on August 27, 2011, 08:43:49 AM
Why should anyone get something for free? Although I've had 2 texts and 2 phonecalls trying to sell me tickets this week. Are they expecting a crap crowd again?
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: olaftab on August 27, 2011, 08:56:52 AM
The 32K  v Blackburn was shocking and I am sure a few thousand below  forecast budget. So a few more  under 35K  crowds and we may well have to take further measures.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: nigel on August 27, 2011, 09:40:13 AM
Is there a Randy Out Brigade?
I see a Werewolf taking the piss and a few people who think Randy would sell if someone came up with the right money.
Certainly no Randy Out Brigade anyway.

There are people out there who want Randy out, I have encountered them on t'internet. 

There probably are, there are also people who want us to sell Gabby and others who think Habib Beye was a decent purchase, they are a small minority and in no way deserve the suffix 'brigade'.
I did say in a later post that "Brigade" was probably the wrong word to use.
You're right that there are a minority of every opinion, on another forum I go on, birmingham mail, there's a chap who thinks Barry Bannan is nothing more than an average prospect. Amazing!!
Frighteningly though, If Luke goes to QPR that opens up the right back berth to Habib Beye!!! aaaaaaaaagh  ;D
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Archie on August 27, 2011, 09:51:59 AM
I'm not sure you can read too much into this in terms of preparing the business for sale. What you can say for definite (I assume Archie is correct) is that the club has withdrawn these small perks from two groups of people that do more for the club than an average supporter.

Many of the staff are ardent supporters who will want to attend every game, their "salary package" has been reduced, the amounts may not be huge but it is something that will hit the lowest paid hardest.

The Lions club chairman are a group of people who do as much as any to promote the club throughout the world and those type of small perks help them to explain to people who don't know us, why Villa are "special".

I've no idea why a business of the size of AVFC would choose to cut costs in this way but when you see it happening, it's legitimate to wonder why they will have thought it necessary. What is going on in the minds of senior management to make them believe that cutting these miniscule expenses is a good thing to do?

Perfect.
This is what I'd have written if my English were better.
Thank you mate.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Greg N'Ash on August 27, 2011, 09:52:59 AM
The whole "cut the wage bill" mantra is beginning to resemble the post Gregory period where we were repeatedly told how everyone else would go bankrupt like leeds and Villa would rise from the ashes as a phoenix of good finances. That didn't work out, and neither will this, unless Lerner's plan is to turn us into Wigan.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 27, 2011, 10:18:57 AM

Frighteningly though, If Luke goes to QPR that opens up the right back berth to Habib Beye!!! aaaaaaaaagh  ;D

Or Carlos Cuellar, or Ciaran Clark, or even Delph. Lichaj can play there too, don't let's depress ourselves with the thought of Happy Beye there just yet!
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 27, 2011, 10:53:51 AM
As far as I know employees still get free season tickets, it's just cup games that they no longer get freebies for. The change in cup tickets is due, iirc, to the fact gate money is shared and so the freebie actually costs Villa money, rather than it is just a free perk that costs the club nothing.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Irish villain on August 27, 2011, 02:17:17 PM
We need an EU/IMF bailout. It's been a savage change in policy at the club, the whole place just reeks of austerity.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Californian Villain on August 27, 2011, 04:17:20 PM
The whole "cut the wage bill" mantra is beginning to resemble the post Gregory period where we were repeatedly told how everyone else would go bankrupt like leeds and Villa would rise from the ashes as a phoenix of good finances. That didn't work out, and neither will this, unless Lerner's plan is to turn us into Wigan.

It's exactly like the post-Gregory period, when, after a phase of buying highly priced players with little or no sell-on value the club had to make cut backs after the money ran out...
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: ez on August 27, 2011, 05:24:41 PM
Close the Holte Pub if its losing money.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: ChrissyPrice on August 27, 2011, 05:35:25 PM
Close the top tier of Trinity Road on match days if today is anything to go by.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on August 27, 2011, 05:38:16 PM
From what I learn from Randy Lerner. He had two business in two sporting teams and no other income coming in to keep his wealth up like Man City and Chelsea owners will oil/gas money keep coming in.

So Randy can't keep up the spending. I do think he is not wealthy enough for two teams but one team is doable.
 
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: ozzjim on August 27, 2011, 05:56:20 PM
He has either totally lost interest and could not care less, or is broke. As he has spent 5 years building and now has seemingly left us with the smallest group of senior players imaginable, and not replaced our 2 best players. If he is no longer interested, I would prefer him to simply say so and put it up for sale.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 27, 2011, 07:05:26 PM
He has either totally lost interest and could not care less, or is broke. As he has spent 5 years building and now has seemingly left us with the smallest group of senior players imaginable, and not replaced our 2 best players. If he is no longer interested, I would prefer him to simply say so and put it up for sale.

That's the thing.

It isn't that we're shipping out players and replacing them with cheaper ones, we're shipping out players and not replacing them, full stop.

The squad wasn't strong enough last season, so how does he expect it to do when it is so much weaker this season?

It really does look like he's totally lost interest and wants his money back.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: ozzjim on August 27, 2011, 07:29:01 PM
I would not mind if he were looking to a sustainable strategy built on young players with sell on value to keep things going and solid scouting, so buying 19-23 year olds on wages of 25k rather than 50k, but the fire sale with no purchasing makes no sense.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: andyh on August 27, 2011, 07:34:15 PM
I am sure that each of the 3 times I have walked past the Holte Pub this week, the gates have been locked and padlocked.
Is it shut now ?
Is this another cost cutting excercise ? It just adds to the air of a club that can longer be bothered.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: Clampy on August 27, 2011, 07:37:01 PM
I am sure that each of the 3 times I have walked past the Holte Pub this week, the gates have been locked and padlocked.
Is it shut now ?
Is this another cost cutting excercise ? It just adds to the air of a club that can longer be bothered.

You walk in round the back opposite the Holte.
Title: Re: The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future of the club
Post by: andyh on August 27, 2011, 07:38:11 PM
I am sure that each of the 3 times I have walked past the Holte Pub this week, the gates have been locked and padlocked.
Is it shut now ?
Is this another cost cutting excercise ? It just adds to the air of a club that can longer be bothered.


You walk in round the back opposite the Holte.

ahhh, cleared up.
thanks
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