Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: The Laughing Policeman on August 22, 2011, 07:58:50 PM
-
Given what the guys of Brigada 1874 are trying to do, and the fact that I detest sitting at football matches. I want to bring this to your attention.
As it says on the petition it works in Germany why shouldn't it here.?
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1908
-
Much as I loved standing at football, terracing is never coming back.
-
Never going to happen. Seats carry more benefits to more people than terraces do.
-
No one is advocating the wholesale return of the terraces.
All we want is designated areas where seats can be removed and a certificate can be issued for a certain number of fans to be admitted to that area. Exactly in the same way as tickets are now sold for all seater stadia.
Those of you who say it can't or wont work should pay a visit to a Bundesliga ground. I recommend 1 FC Koln.
-
Never going to happen.....Move on
-
Never going to happen. Seats carry more benefits to more people than terraces do.
What benefits are you referring to, not being able to see the match when the person in front decides that he will stand all the match despite paying for a seat?
-
It doesn't matter how large or small a terracing area, for many reasons it's never coming back.
-
It doesn't matter how large or small a terracing area, for many reasons it's never coming back.
There's only one reason it wont come back............the apathy of people who are willing to put up with the bullsh*t fed to them by the governing bodies. And who seem to enjoy the lack of atmosphere at our major football grounds.
-
It doesn't matter how large or small a terracing area, for many reasons it's never coming back.
There's only one reason it wont come back............the apathy of people who are willing to put up with the bullsh*t fed to them by the governing bodies. And who seem to enjoy the lack of atmosphere at our major football grounds.
What was the reason all seater stadiums were introduced
-
It doesn't matter how large or small a terracing area, for many reasons it's never coming back.
There's only one reason it wont come back............the apathy of people who are willing to put up with the bullsh*t fed to them by the governing bodies. And who seem to enjoy the lack of atmosphere at our major football grounds.
Yes, that is of course the only reason terracing isn't already back.
-
Yes spangly we all know why all seater stadia were introduced, and it was adopted by EUFA to make it mandatory Europe wide, but with the proviso that governing FA's could apply for certain areas of grounds to be exempted for league matches but with strict licensing conditions.
As I said in my OP it works in Germany and elsewhere.
-
Of all the things to petition the government about, the right to stand up for a couple of hours seems trivial to say the least. As others have said, it's never going to happen. From the government's point of view there is nothing to gain and much to lose.
-
Yes spangly we all know why all seater stadia were introduced, and it was adopted by EUFA to make it mandatory Europe wide, but with the proviso that governing FA's could apply for certain areas of grounds to be exempted for league matches but with strict licensing conditions.
As I said in my OP it works in Germany and elsewhere.
This topic has been discussed many times on this forum it may well work in other countries but you are wasting your time
-
Never going to happen. Seats carry more benefits to more people than terraces do.
What benefits are you referring to, not being able to see the match when the person in front decides that he will stand all the match despite paying for a seat?
Off the top of my head:
For the regulatory authorities - safety
For the clubs - safety and the ability to charge more money to punters
For fans - safety and the increased accessibility; I don't have the figures but I'd bet my life earnings that the number of women, children, and disabled people attending football matches is significantly higher now to the 80s.
And ignoring all the logical arguments, Hillsbrough is enough to stop anyone in authority with any common sense whatsoever to suggest bringing terracing back. I'm not aware that Germany has had a Hillsbrough equivalent and the emotion attached to it means we'll never see large-scale terracing again.
As proven by the numerous campaigns over the past few years, there just isn't enough support for this to make it worth while for those that make the decisions. You're basically asking clubs to spend money changing the grounds again, for no financial reward (indeed you'd probably expect lower prices to stand) and with the increased safety risk. Given attendances are so high anyway what exactly is football's incentive to make this happen?
-
Man Citeh have a safe standing area of sorts.
Mind you so do Villa it's called the North Stand Lower.
Haven't sat in there since it opened,they might as well get rid of the seats.
It would be safer.
-
Sadly the Health and Safety Nazis run this country now, so I sympathise with your view but like many have said it isnt going to happen. I will sign the petition though.
-
Never going to happen. Seats carry more benefits to more people than terraces do.
What benefits are you referring to, not being able to see the match when the person in front decides that he will stand all the match despite paying for a seat?
Off the top of my head:
For the regulatory authorities - safety
For the clubs - safety and the ability to charge more money to punters
For fans - safety and the increased accessibility; I don't have the figures but I'd bet my life earnings that the number of women, children, and disabled people attending football matches is significantly higher now to the 80s.
And ignoring all the logical arguments, Hillsbrough is enough to stop anyone in authority with any common sense whatsoever to suggest bringing terracing back. I'm not aware that Germany has had a Hillsbrough equivalent and the emotion attached to it means we'll never see large-scale terracing again.
As proven by the numerous campaigns over the past few years, there just isn't enough support for this to make it worth while for those that make the decisions. You're basically asking clubs to spend money changing the grounds again, for no financial reward (indeed you'd probably expect lower prices to stand) and with the increased safety risk. Given attendances are so high anyway what exactly is football's incentive to make this happen?
Clubs such as Wolves have put their name to the campaign already and I'm sure many clubs outside the to6-8 or so will also back them.
-
Never going to happen. Seats carry more benefits to more people than terraces do.
What benefits are you referring to, not being able to see the match when the person in front decides that he will stand all the match despite paying for a seat?
Off the top of my head:
For the regulatory authorities - safety
For the clubs - safety and the ability to charge more money to punters
For fans - safety and the increased accessibility; I don't have the figures but I'd bet my life earnings that the number of women, children, and disabled people attending football matches is significantly higher now to the 80s.
And ignoring all the logical arguments, Hillsbrough is enough to stop anyone in authority with any common sense whatsoever to suggest bringing terracing back. I'm not aware that Germany has had a Hillsbrough equivalent and the emotion attached to it means we'll never see large-scale terracing again.
As proven by the numerous campaigns over the past few years, there just isn't enough support for this to make it worth while for those that make the decisions. You're basically asking clubs to spend money changing the grounds again, for no financial reward (indeed you'd probably expect lower prices to stand) and with the increased safety risk. Given attendances are so high anyway what exactly is football's incentive to make this happen?
Why shouldn't I be able to stand if I want to? I don't tell you you can't sit down.
-
I support this. People should have the choice.
-
It wasnt terraces that was the problem, it was fences trapping people in with no escape
-
It wasnt terraces that was the problem, it was fences trapping people in with no escape
There were problems with the old terracing, but now they have the ability to make it safer than seating areas, try getting out of a seating area in a hurry!
-
Why shouldn't I be able to stand if I want to? I don't tell you you can't sit down.
And I don't tell you you can't stand up so stop being so stupidly defensive.
I'm merely pointing out the reasons why terracing won't be coming back.
-
Why shouldn't I be able to stand if I want to? I don't tell you you can't sit down.
And I don't tell you you can't stand up so stop being so stupidly defensive.
I'm merely pointing out the reasons why terracing won't be coming back.
You were doing exactly that - so what if more women and children attend now? They don't have to stand so it wouldn't affect them. And yet again, Hillsborough was not caused by terraces.
-
Man Citeh have a safe standing area of sorts.
Really? Where and how?
-
I stood on some very rickety 'safe' terracing in Mainz, Germany, in May. It was rather less safe-feeling than the old Holte End. Yet it was completely packed with well-oiled fans and there were no incidents to report. The Germans have a habit of being able to think things through, take the smoking ban in pubs as an example. They've worked out that they can have some pubs where smoking goes on and non-smokers will avoid them. They've also worked out that terraces do not kill people, but idiotic crowd control does.
-
I support the idea and will sign any petition but I think no matter how many people sign or how much we campaign it won't happen.
-
Why shouldn't I be able to stand if I want to? I don't tell you you can't sit down.
And I don't tell you you can't stand up so stop being so stupidly defensive.
I'm merely pointing out the reasons why terracing won't be coming back.
You were doing exactly that - so what if more women and children attend now? They don't have to stand so it wouldn't affect them. And yet again, Hillsborough was not caused by terraces.
No I wasn't. Go and read what I wrote again.
And why do you think more women and children attend games now? The general consensus found in reports on the matter is because the overall environment at football games is more family friendly than it was. A big part of that is the absence of terracing where small people (ie many women and children) can feel intimidated by the crowd. In a seated area every one has their own personal space which women and parents appreciate.
And it's wholly irrelevant what actually caused Hillsborough. Lord Taylor's report permanently linked terracing with the disaster in the public's mind and politicians are not going to run the risk of public opinion by changing the law on the matter. There just isn't a persuasive enough justification for it.
I couldn't care less whether terracing comes back or not. If terracing came back I'd still probably have a season ticket in the seated area anyway but then I might occasionally go on the terrace for a change. However, the point is, it's not going to happen.
-
I've read what you've written and it still makes no more sense.
There are many reasons why more women and children attend games now and not one single one of them would have to stand up if they didn't want to, so why a few people standing at the other side of the ground would prevent them from attending is beyond me. Why do you think less of football's traditional working-class support attend, or are they unimportant?
Then you bring Hillsborough into the argument and when that one's rubbished you say the truth is irrelevant because the public apparently think differently. I'll have to try that one some time - never mind what's right, if I think it isn't it's wrong.
-
I to support the idea and think that there should be a safe standing area in grounds. Alas,i think it will never happen as its all about money and seats bring in more revenue than standing.Most fans i know,prefer to stand but when have the people who run football ever cared about what the fan wants or thinks.
-
Signed.
Cant see any downsides for safe standing to be honest other than the initial cost to the club.
-
No point going backwards- it will not and should not happen.
-
Let us all dream for a moment,and imagine they made the lower holte and north stand standing terracing.I bet you could get (safely) double the capicity in those areas ,so without any ground expantion you would have a 50k stadium.The atmosphere would be back to days of old and there would be CHOICE for us ,the paying customers.It happened in Germany,and in Denmark.Could it happen here?I hope so.
-
I don't think standing on terraces will ever come back we will just have to accept it.
-
And I don't tell you you can't stand up so stop being so stupidly defensive.
And why do you think more women and children attend games now? The general consensus found in reports on the matter is because the overall environment at football games is more family friendly than it was. A big part of that is the absence of terracing where small people (ie many women and children) can feel intimidated by the crowd. In a seated area every one has their own personal space which women and parents appreciate.
Those women and children currently have their view blocked by people standing in seated areas. (As a woman your argument is a bit lost on me but I'll take it on the basis that many of us are a bit shorter than men, although I'm not). If there were seperate standing areas they could enjoy the match even more.
At the moment people who would prefer to sit are being forced to stand by those who want to stand.
Seperate areas give both those who prefer to sit, and those who prefer to stand, a choice.
More women and children attend games now because society has changed. Women do lots of stuff that used to be the preserve of men. We have our own money and everything!
-
No matter how safe a standing area can be constructed, England would be the last country to ever do it. The events of Hillsborough are too deeply ingrained and changed things forever.
-
I'd be happy for standing to come back in some capacity.
-
No matter how safe a standing area can be constructed, England would be the last country to ever do it. The events of Hillsborough are too deeply ingrained and changed things forever.
Whilst true, I think the biggest resistance would be from the Police, and they're the ones who have final say on any event taking place or not.
-
No matter how safe a standing area can be constructed, England would be the last country to ever do it. The events of Hillsborough are too deeply ingrained and changed things forever.
Whilst true, I think the biggest resistance would be from the Police, and they're the ones who have final say on any event taking place or not.
Perhaps when the official Hillsboro records are finally released this whole subject will be considered somewhat differently.
-
No matter how safe a standing area can be constructed, England would be the last country to ever do it. The events of Hillsborough are too deeply ingrained and changed things forever.
Whilst true, I think the biggest resistance would be from the Police, and they're the ones who have final say on any event taking place or not.
Perhaps when the official Hillsboro records are finally released this whole subject will be considered somewhat differently.
I'd like to think so, but doubt it.
-
No point going backwards- it will not and should not happen.
Why not?
-
No point going backwards- it will not and should not happen.
Why not?
Because the primary consideration should be the safety of all supporters, not the personal preferences of some.
Currently, the authorities believe (and have strong evidence to back it up) that the safest solution for British football is all-seater stadia. Unless evidence emerges that suggests all-seater stadia is no longer the safest solution, and that a standing area would increase the overall safety, there is no way they will change their minds.
-
No one is advocating the return of the terraces in all parts of a ground. Just that as in other parts of Europe one section could be made available for standing and that numbers would be strictly controlled by the sale of tickets as is the custom with all seater stadia. So for instance if the Lower Holte was made a standing area and it was licensed to hold 10,000 then when those ten thousand tickets are sold out you can't gain admission. It's that easy. Could one of you who say it is unsafe to stand please explain where the danger lies?
-
No one is advocating the return of the terraces in all parts of a ground. Just that as in other parts of Europe one section could be made available for standing and that numbers would be strictly controlled by the sale of tickets as is the custom with all seater stadia. So for instance if the Lower Holte was made a standing area and it was licensed to hold 10,000 then when those ten thousand tickets are sold out you can't gain admission. It's that easy. Could one of you who say it is unsafe to stand please explain where the danger lies?
The onus is actually on those who advocate a standing area to demonstrate that, in the context of British football, there would be no negative impact on the overall safety at any given ground. Before a change is even considered the authorities would have to be convinced that having a standing area would be as safe, if not safer, than keeping that area seated.
-
No one is advocating the return of the terraces in all parts of a ground. Just that as in other parts of Europe one section could be made available for standing and that numbers would be strictly controlled by the sale of tickets as is the custom with all seater stadia. So for instance if the Lower Holte was made a standing area and it was licensed to hold 10,000 then when those ten thousand tickets are sold out you can't gain admission. It's that easy. Could one of you who say it is unsafe to stand please explain where the danger lies?
The onus is actually on those who advocate a standing area to demonstrate that, in the context of British football, there would be no negative impact on the overall safety at any given ground. Before a change is even considered the authorities would have to be convinced that having a standing area would be as safe, if not safer, than keeping that area seated.
Sorry but I don't understand this "context of British football".
If you mean that British football fans are more badly behaved than our European counterparts then you are sadly mistaken.
-
Sorry but I don't understand this "context of British football".
If you mean that British football fans are more badly behaved than our European counterparts then you are sadly mistaken.
I think the powers that be will be looking for something more scientific than 'It works in Germany so it will work here.'
-
I've read what you've written and it still makes no more sense.
There are many reasons why more women and children attend games now and not one single one of them would have to stand up if they didn't want to, so why a few people standing at the other side of the ground would prevent them from attending is beyond me. Why do you think less of football's traditional working-class support attend, or are they unimportant?
Then you bring Hillsborough into the argument and when that one's rubbished you say the truth is irrelevant because the public apparently think differently. I'll have to try that one some time - never mind what's right, if I think it isn't it's wrong.
It's interesting how a fanzine editor claims to not understand the power of public perception. Whatever the actual reason for the Hillsborough disaster (if indeed there is just one) the Taylor report's two major recommendations was the removal of fences and the introduction of all-seater stadia. As a result, the public perceive those to be the two things which will prevent another Hillsborough. Bringing in standing areas reverses that move and would be perceived to be less safe. True or not.
And as for the traditional working class support, I don't think they're unimportant (and I don't think I said or even suggested that), far from it. But it is the ridiculous level of inflation in football prices that has affected them, not the introduction of all-seater stadia. I have never come across anyone who has refused to go to a football match because they would be provided with a seat!
-
It doesn't matter how large or small a terracing area, for many reasons it's never coming back.
There's only one reason it wont come back............the apathy of people who are willing to put up with the bullsh*t fed to them by the governing bodies. And who seem to enjoy the lack of atmosphere at our major football grounds.
What was the reason all seater stadiums were introduced
The failure of the police.
-
I would love standing to come back. Just my personal opinion, that's all.
-
I've read what you've written and it still makes no more sense.
There are many reasons why more women and children attend games now and not one single one of them would have to stand up if they didn't want to, so why a few people standing at the other side of the ground would prevent them from attending is beyond me. Why do you think less of football's traditional working-class support attend, or are they unimportant?
Then you bring Hillsborough into the argument and when that one's rubbished you say the truth is irrelevant because the public apparently think differently. I'll have to try that one some time - never mind what's right, if I think it isn't it's wrong.
It's interesting how a fanzine editor claims to not understand the power of public perception. Whatever the actual reason for the Hillsborough disaster (if indeed there is just one) the Taylor report's two major recommendations was the removal of fences and the introduction of all-seater stadia. As a result, the public perceive those to be the two things which will prevent another Hillsborough. Bringing in standing areas reverses that move and would be perceived to be less safe. True or not.
And as for the traditional working class support, I don't think they're unimportant (and I don't think I said or even suggested that), far from it. But it is the ridiculous level of inflation in football prices that has affected them, not the introduction of all-seater stadia. I have never come across anyone who has refused to go to a football match because they would be provided with a seat!
Why should I be any more or less aware of public perception? For that matter, why would such perception, if it exists, prevent anyone from attending a match?
I know a few people who gave up watching because they'd have to sit but I don't know of anyone who might not go to a football match because someone else - not them, but someone else, in another part of the ground - is standing up.
-
I have never come across anyone who has refused to go to a football match because they would be provided with a seat!
Have you come across people who don't go because there's no atmosphere anymore, or because it's too expensive?....or even because they can't see because people keep standing up in front of them - because standing areas actually address this issue as well by taking the standers from in front of you and giving them a space where they can stand till their hearts content.
Public perception can be changed. The truth coming out about Hillsborough could be one of the things to move it along. You are correct in saying that it is a major obstacle to the debate, but even The Kop stand for the majority of the game, and so do Liverpool's away fans. How deep is that objection if you actually open it up and take a better look at it?
Many people's objection to standing seems to be purely "It's not going to happen". If people want it to happen, that's what they should say so. Then they can look at whether the barriers to it are insurmountable. When you look into it properly, they are not. To simply say "it's not going to happen" isn't an argument.
In Germany more injures have been attributed to past standing in seated areas (including the perfectly acceptable "moments of high drama"), than placing people in areas which are designed for standing. Seated areas tend to be steeper causing more of a domino effect if one person falls. The seat in front provides a trip wire for people leaping up as a goal is scored, or for any incident or piece of action. Modern safe standing areas still provide people with their own space, but a barrier at a height that prevents "tumbling". It has also been shown that where standing areas exist, people don't stand in seated areas, so it helps those who want to sit (all those women and children!) Someone said "we need something more scientific than "It works in Germany so it'll work here", and I am stumped as to where we find this science. In Germany you can drink for the whole game as you watch the match, yet still people aren't getting hurt or causing more trouble, but crowds are up and atmospheres are better. It isn't science, but what else is there?
Crowds are down everywhere. Most of the clubs money may come from Sky these days but how long will they remain interested in a game played out to increasingly quiet and empty stadiums. Even Man United aren't selling out every week anymore. It is in clubs interests to look into this. No-one is going to force a club to provide a safe standing area, but it's something that any club re-developing a stand right now could have in mind, and build something suitable for conversion, because I think the debate is going to happen, and it is going to be taken increasingly seriously.
-
Even if a limited amount of standing was allowed, thẹ clubs that have recently developed their stadia would most likely not be able to afford the cost of changing the layout of the terracing.
Villa Park on the other hand has the North Stand still awaiting redevelopment. I know the plans seem to have been shelved, but perhaps if the law on standing is changed the new North Stand could be a new Holte End, which would not only be excellent, but would give us a massive capacity, and hopefully cheaper access to the ground.
-
Even if a limited amount of standing was allowed, thẹ clubs that have recently developed their stadia would most likely not be able to afford the cost of changing the layout of the terracing.
Villa Park on the other hand has the North Stand still awaiting redevelopment. I know the plans seem to have been shelved, but perhaps if the law on standing is changed the new North Stand could be a new Holte End, which would not only be excellent, but would give us a massive capacity, and hopefully cheaper access to the ground.
Why is there this absurd notion that if safe standing is implemented then tickets will be cheaper? To change existing seating to standing areas will cost a lot of money. To redevelop an area like the North Stand it will cost a lot of money whether there are seats there or safe standing areas introduced.
From what I gather safe standing areas will have to have increased numbers of stewards. Safety checks on standing barriers, if we go the way of the German model, will be constant. It all costs money.
If there is one accident caused by a safe standing area, all of them will be closed. Do you think any club in its right mind would take that risk?
The sooner people realise that it is not just a case of taking some seats out, the better.
If you think you'll get cheaper tickets because you are standing, you probably think that the fall of Gadaffi will bring down petrol prices at the pumps. Think again.
-
Am I right in thinking that it is not against the law to stand in seated areas at a football match?
I'm sure its upto the club and local authorities.
-
Even if a limited amount of standing was allowed, thẹ clubs that have recently developed their stadia would most likely not be able to afford the cost of changing the layout of the terracing.
Villa Park on the other hand has the North Stand still awaiting redevelopment. I know the plans seem to have been shelved, but perhaps if the law on standing is changed the new North Stand could be a new Holte End, which would not only be excellent, but would give us a massive capacity, and hopefully cheaper access to the ground.
Why is there this absurd notion that if safe standing is implemented then tickets will be cheaper? To change existing seating to standing areas will cost a lot of money. To redevelop an area like the North Stand it will cost a lot of money whether there are seats there or safe standing areas introduced.
From what I gather safe standing areas will have to have increased numbers of stewards. Safety checks on standing barriers, if we go the way of the German model, will be constant. It all costs money.
If there is one accident caused by a safe standing area, all of them will be closed. Do you think any club in its right mind would take that risk?
The sooner people realise that it is not just a case of taking some seats out, the better.
If you think you'll get cheaper tickets because you are standing, you probably think that the fall of Gadaffi will bring down petrol prices at the pumps. Think again.
Wolves have already backed it. I'm sure most clubs appart from the biggest will also like to introduce this.
-
There's thousands of supporters who stand on terraces every week in Britain to watch football, just not in the premier league
-
There's thousands of supporters who stand on terraces every week in Britain to watch football, just not in the premier league
And at the egg chasing.
-
There's thousands of supporters who stand on terraces every week in Britain to watch football, just not in the premier league
And at the egg chasing.
Plus the hundreds of thousands of music fans who stand at festivals and outdoor gigs each summer.
-
Even if a limited amount of standing was allowed, thẹ clubs that have recently developed their stadia would most likely not be able to afford the cost of changing the layout of the terracing.
Villa Park on the other hand has the North Stand still awaiting redevelopment. I know the plans seem to have been shelved, but perhaps if the law on standing is changed the new North Stand could be a new Holte End, which would not only be excellent, but would give us a massive capacity, and hopefully cheaper access to the ground.
Why is there this absurd notion that if safe standing is implemented then tickets will be cheaper? To change existing seating to standing areas will cost a lot of money. To redevelop an area like the North Stand it will cost a lot of money whether there are seats there or safe standing areas introduced.
From what I gather safe standing areas will have to have increased numbers of stewards. Safety checks on standing barriers, if we go the way of the German model, will be constant. It all costs money.
If there is one accident caused by a safe standing area, all of them will be closed. Do you think any club in its right mind would take that risk?
The sooner people realise that it is not just a case of taking some seats out, the better.
If you think you'll get cheaper tickets because you are standing, you probably think that the fall of Gadaffi will bring down petrol prices at the pumps. Think again.
Wolves have already backed it. I'm sure most clubs appart from the biggest will also like to introduce this.
Why? Whats in it for them?
-
There's thousands of supporters who stand on terraces every week in Britain to watch football, just not in the premier league
And at the egg chasing.
Plus the hundreds of thousands of music fans who stand at festivals and outdoor gigs each summer.
You can have a pint whilst standing watching rugby.
You can smoke whilst standing at music festivals.
All urinals are now standing only.
-
Even if a limited amount of standing was allowed, thẹ clubs that have recently developed their stadia would most likely not be able to afford the cost of changing the layout of the terracing.
Villa Park on the other hand has the North Stand still awaiting redevelopment. I know the plans seem to have been shelved, but perhaps if the law on standing is changed the new North Stand could be a new Holte End, which would not only be excellent, but would give us a massive capacity, and hopefully cheaper access to the ground.
Why is there this absurd notion that if safe standing is implemented then tickets will be cheaper? To change existing seating to standing areas will cost a lot of money. To redevelop an area like the North Stand it will cost a lot of money whether there are seats there or safe standing areas introduced.
From what I gather safe standing areas will have to have increased numbers of stewards. Safety checks on standing barriers, if we go the way of the German model, will be constant. It all costs money.
If there is one accident caused by a safe standing area, all of them will be closed. Do you think any club in its right mind would take that risk?
The sooner people realise that it is not just a case of taking some seats out, the better.
If you think you'll get cheaper tickets because you are standing, you probably think that the fall of Gadaffi will bring down petrol prices at the pumps. Think again.
Wolves have already backed it. I'm sure most clubs appart from the biggest will also like to introduce this.
Why? Whats in it for them?
For a start it will inject a bit of buzz into the matchday maybe making more people inclined to go. More fans can fit into the same space = more sales of over priced matchday crap = more revenue. The bigger clubs are only really interested in business and corporate and having noisy terraces will spoil the sterile theatre experience.
-
Am I right in thinking that it is not against the law to stand in seated areas at a football match?
I'm sure its upto the club and local authorities.
I stood in L1 for the whole 94 minutes last night and the police and stewards didn't seem to have a problem with it.
But when it came to waving flags whilst the game was going on it was a different story. Apparently the stewards "had a complaint" about them. Who from we will never know , no one in L1 wanted them taken down and they certainly couldn't have been blocking anyones view.
So be warned, in the ever increasing sterilisation of OURNational Sport, flags and banners seem to be in the sights of those who must be obeyed.
-
It isn't against the law, it's against the ground regulations and licence.
Largely clubs can get away with letting you stand if they can show that they have took reasonable steps to get you to sit down.
I remember going to Bristol City with Preston and the steward asking us to sit down and the other half going mad, saying "We're on the attack, you can't make me sit down!" and the steward saying very calmly in a slow west country drawl. "You're right. I can only ask you to sit down. It's up to you whether you sit down now. I've done my job, I've asked you to. I don't really mind whether you sit down or not""
-
Am I right in thinking that it is not against the law to stand in seated areas at a football match?
I'm sure its upto the club and local authorities.
I stood in L1 for the whole 94 minutes last night and the police and stewards didn't seem to have a problem with it.
But when it came to waving flags whilst the game was going on it was a different story. Apparently the stewards "had a complaint" about them. Who from we will never know , no one in L1 wanted them taken down and they certainly couldn't have been blocking anyones view.
So be warned, in the ever increasing sterilisation of OURNational Sport, flags and banners seem to be in the sights of those who must be obeyed.
You always see big flags with poles at Anfield, and more recently Stamford Bridge, before kick-off. The flag waving seems very choreographed at both grounds so I assume they have the blessing of the clubs. I can’t say if they are waved during the game though and maybe that is the issue with the stewards at Villa Park – they are blocking the views of the non-existent fans behind the flag wavers. I say non-existent in the assumption that the back of the Lower Holte has not been converted into executive boxes since my last visit v Liverpool in May, and remains a wall of grey roller shutters. Some people seem just happy to have something to complain about, and health and safety laws are the perfect catch all reason to stop most things in a stadium.
-
Even if a limited amount of standing was allowed, thẹ clubs that have recently developed their stadia would most likely not be able to afford the cost of changing the layout of the terracing.
Villa Park on the other hand has the North Stand still awaiting redevelopment. I know the plans seem to have been shelved, but perhaps if the law on standing is changed the new North Stand could be a new Holte End, which would not only be excellent, but would give us a massive capacity, and hopefully cheaper access to the ground.
Why is there this absurd notion that if safe standing is implemented then tickets will be cheaper? To change existing seating to standing areas will cost a lot of money. To redevelop an area like the North Stand it will cost a lot of money whether there are seats there or safe standing areas introduced.
From what I gather safe standing areas will have to have increased numbers of stewards. Safety checks on standing barriers, if we go the way of the German model, will be constant. It all costs money.
If there is one accident caused by a safe standing area, all of them will be closed. Do you think any club in its right mind would take that risk?
The sooner people realise that it is not just a case of taking some seats out, the better.
If you think you'll get cheaper tickets because you are standing, you probably think that the fall of Gadaffi will bring down petrol prices at the pumps. Think again.
Wolves have already backed it. I'm sure most clubs appart from the biggest will also like to introduce this.
Why? Whats in it for them?
For a start it will inject a bit of buzz into the matchday maybe making more people inclined to go. More fans can fit into the same space = more sales of over priced matchday crap = more revenue. The bigger clubs are only really interested in business and corporate and having noisy terraces will spoil the sterile theatre experience.
Average attendances are higher now than they were for the vast majority of time we had terraces which doesn't really support the idea that bringing terraces back will increase attendances.
-
Even if a limited amount of standing was allowed, thẹ clubs that have recently developed their stadia would most likely not be able to afford the cost of changing the layout of the terracing.
Villa Park on the other hand has the North Stand still awaiting redevelopment. I know the plans seem to have been shelved, but perhaps if the law on standing is changed the new North Stand could be a new Holte End, which would not only be excellent, but would give us a massive capacity, and hopefully cheaper access to the ground.
Why is there this absurd notion that if safe standing is implemented then tickets will be cheaper? To change existing seating to standing areas will cost a lot of money. To redevelop an area like the North Stand it will cost a lot of money whether there are seats there or safe standing areas introduced.
From what I gather safe standing areas will have to have increased numbers of stewards. Safety checks on standing barriers, if we go the way of the German model, will be constant. It all costs money.
If there is one accident caused by a safe standing area, all of them will be closed. Do you think any club in its right mind would take that risk?
The sooner people realise that it is not just a case of taking some seats out, the better.
If you think you'll get cheaper tickets because you are standing, you probably think that the fall of Gadaffi will bring down petrol prices at the pumps. Think again.
Wolves have already backed it. I'm sure most clubs appart from the biggest will also like to introduce this.
Why? Whats in it for them?
For a start it will inject a bit of buzz into the matchday maybe making more people inclined to go. More fans can fit into the same space = more sales of over priced matchday crap = more revenue. The bigger clubs are only really interested in business and corporate and having noisy terraces will spoil the sterile theatre experience.
Average attendances are higher now than they were for the vast majority of time we had terraces which doesn't really support the idea that bringing terraces back will increase attendances.
But dont we have the marketing of the PL which we never had before? Germany has the largest average attendances in Europe.
-
Why is it an absurd notion for us to expect it to be cheaper to stand rather than sit? Back in the day before all seated stadia it was always much cheaper to stand, and if memory serves me well it was where most fans congregated on match days. As for stewarding, I don't recall the Holte End being swamped with stewards. If anything there are far more stewards nowadays. Obviously the cost of converting seats to standing would be expensive and most clubs that have developed their grounds or moved to new stadia would most likely not want the expense of changing back to safe standing, however, Villa Park has not been totally developed, hence the suitability of the North Stand to be made into a new Holte type stand. Obviously this is all hypothetical at the moment anyway, but I feel pretty sure that if an updated version of the old Holte (which by the way was perfectly safe!) was made that is where most fans would watch their football, and those who prefer to sit would have plenty of seats to choose from.
-
Was going to add my two penn'orth but laughing policeman and amfy have done a great job of putting the case for bringing back some terracing. Establishing the truth about Hillsbrough and citing the example of the German game are key as people have said.
The anti-terracing brigade have failed to come up with a single coherent argument to back up their position, beyond blindly tailing the attitudes of 'the authorities' and kindly thinking of the profits of the poor old hard-up clubs. I guess this is to be expected after 20 years of the Sky League and the gentrification of football.
-
Join the petetion of the Football Supporters Federation - Link (http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding.php)
-
I'm not sure there's an "anti-terracing brigade"; personally I couldn't give a monkey's whether people stand or not. But you're way off track in saying there isn't a single coherent argument to support all-seater stadia: there are plenty in the Taylor Report. The objections to sitting (as opposed to standing) that were raised then are the same ones being raised now. As I said before, if the powers that be are even to consider standing areas they're going to need to see some hard evidence that such areas are safer than current arrangements, in the context of British football. I don't think their first question will be "Does it work in Germany?"
This isn't about "gentrification" of football or the persecution of football supporters - it's about safety. I totally accept that some fans want to stand up at football matches. Unfortunately for them, what those fans have to accept is that as things stand their preferences are secondary to the safety reasons set out in the Taylor Report.
If you're expecting full disclosure of the Hillsborough documents to support the idea that standing is safer than sitting I think you're going to be disappointed.
-
Ladies and gents, if the argument for not being allowed to stand is based on a report that was conducted over 10 years ago, (have no clue on the dates) - then the argument is flawed.
Risk Assessments cannot be based on such outdated information. All Risk Assessments have to be conducted on current criteria.
The petition should insist on a properly conducted and up to date report and recommendation.
-
But dont we have the marketing of the PL which we never had before? Germany has the largest average attendances in Europe.
Attendances in Germany are high because the tickets are cheap.
-
hilts_coolerking, you keep on saying that the authorities will want to see hard evidence that safe standing is ok in "the British context" and that they wont just accept the evidence of the German model.
Well the only way they will get the hard evidence in "the British context" is to create safe standing areas at a number of clubs that want them, for a period of say 3 or 4 seasons, then they would have something to analyse.
Just to reiterate.....standing at football matches is safe, poor crowd control and stewarding isn't.
-
When we were in Hamburg we discovered you could buy a season ticket for less than the cost of a replica shirt at their club shop.
-
Celtic are looking at bringing in safe standing. They are making a feasability study. If they okay it, and eight out of twelve SPL clubs vote in favour, they would be allowed to do it and presumably at least a handful of Scottish clubs would follow suit.
This doesn't necessarily mean English clubs could then introduce it... it's currently illegal in England and Wales but not under Scots' Law. Still if it was seen to be a success in Scotland it might help the campaign to legalise it south of the border.
-
Many people's objection to standing seems to be purely "It's not going to happen".
It sounds so pompous, gives the impression of absolute certainty when in reality people are only guessing.
I can just imagine these people in other situations. 'Votes for women? Not going to happen'.
'National Health Service? Not going to happen'
'Gaddafi out? Don't make me laugh!'
None of these things would have happened if everybody sat around whining 'not going to happen'.
-
Many people's objection to standing seems to be purely "It's not going to happen".
It sounds so pompous, gives the impression of absolute certainty when in reality people are only guessing.
I can just imagine these people in other situations. 'Votes for women? Not going to happen'.
'National Health Service? Not going to happen'
'Gaddafi out? Don't make me laugh!'
None of these things would have happened if everybody sat around whining 'not going to happen'.
Here`s one that ain`t gonna happen - "Dave Woodhall handing out change for a tenner when he was presented with a fiver"............only kidding Dave :)
-
Here`s one that ain`t gonna happen - "Dave Woodhall handing out change for a tenner when he was presented with a fiver"............only kidding Dave :)
Whisper it quietly, but I sold someone a fanzine for £1.80 last week because he had no more on him. I still feel racked with guilt.
-
I'm not sure there's an "anti-terracing brigade"; personally I couldn't give a monkey's whether people stand or not. But you're way off track in saying there isn't a single coherent argument to support all-seater stadia: there are plenty in the Taylor Report. The objections to sitting (as opposed to standing) that were raised then are the same ones being raised now. As I said before, if the powers that be are even to consider standing areas they're going to need to see some hard evidence that such areas are safer than current arrangements, in the context of British football. I don't think their first question will be "Does it work in Germany?"
This isn't about "gentrification" of football or the persecution of football supporters - it's about safety. I totally accept that some fans want to stand up at football matches. Unfortunately for them, what those fans have to accept is that as things stand their preferences are secondary to the safety reasons set out in the Taylor Report.
If you're expecting full disclosure of the Hillsborough documents to support the idea that standing is safer than sitting I think you're going to be disappointed.
I support the petition to re-instate seating.
I loved the old Holte. I never felt un-safe. I hate the lack of leg-room and the lack of atmosphere at VP now.
Seriously though, I have some questions about what is said above:
Did other countries see fit to adopt their own "Taylor Reports" after Hillsborough? Did UEFA/FIFA change any regulations about terrace safety?
Why isnt it relevant to compare our football to German football? What is the main difference? Perhaps because Germans can be trusted to behave themselves? Thats a sad state of affairs if thats the case.
Would the Hillsborough disaster have happened if that stand was all - seater?
As i understand it, the over-crowding happened because lots of fans suddenly surged into the stand without tickets, then the immovable fence prevented people escaping the resulting crush, so the disaster was caused initially, and crucially, by poor crowd control, rather than the lack of seats in the stand.
-
Provided the terraced section is properly managed with only a certain number of fans allowed in and no more and with no fences I can't see how there can be a repeat of Hillsborough. With the modern technology available to clubs today with season ticket cards for entry etc it should be impossible for a repeat.
-
What happened at Hillsborough gave the Authoritys the oppportunity to react to the behaviour that happened in and around football stadiums in the 70s and 80s.
-
Designated member standing area with card controlled access zones of only specified maximum number of people could work and bring some much needed atmosphere back
-
Designated member standing area with card controlled access zones of only specified maximum number of people could work and bring some much needed atmosphere back
Exactly. There is no reason at all this couldn't be brought in. I stand by what I said - the way some people meekly accept the greed of English football is remarkable. The glaring alternative model of what happens in Germany gives the English FA and government no valid excuses whatsoever. And our club currently has, what, 8-10,000 reasons to support such a move.
-
Standing on or near seats to mind is more of a risk to safety especially when there is no method of control of who or where people stand
-
signed great idea, lower middle holte or lower middle north stand 2 blocks each end safe standing would be great, wont block anyones view, i dont think it will happen but it is worth a try
-
signed great idea, lower middle holte or lower middle north stand 2 blocks each end safe standing would be great, wont block anyones view, i dont think it will happen but it is worth a try
It will block the views of the people sitting in the blocks next to the "standing" blocks........It could only work in the corners
-
Two strikes and your out!
To stand or not to stand: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the crowd to suffer the boredom and passivity of sitting down or to stand up against the wishes of outrageous management, and by opposing, get kicked out. To stand, to sit? No more.
With the help of noted Cleveland Browns fan Bill Shakespeare, we present the star-crossed tale of Rob Stipe, a Dawg Pound fan who dresses up for games in a wig, face paint and shoulder pads and was recently kicked out of his seat at Cleveland Browns Stadium for standing up too much during games.
Stipe, a ticket holder of 25 years, was told by security personnel to sit during the first quarter of Sunday's game when he was standing during a third down. Later in the game, he was standing again and was asked to leave his seat due to a new rule that immediately boots second-offenders.
Stipe insists his standing isn't excessive. Adam Wright of The Chronicle-Telegram explains:
According to Stipe, "excessive standing" has become a bit of a no-no at Cleveland Browns Stadium over the last few seasons. Last year, he was also scolded for the offense and three sheriff's deputies were sent to meet him outside the bathroom to tell him to use his seat more.
"We do not stand all the time," the 35-year-old explained, referring to the as many as 12 friends and family who share season tickets. "We stand on first down, we stand at the beginning of this game, we stand at kickoff. We stand. We are standers, but we're also courteous to other people. If somebody says, 'Hey man, will you sit down?' Sure, I will love to sit down for you. No problem."
A Browns official told the newspaper that the standing rule is enforced only if other fans complain and that security personnel aren't scanning the crowd for standers. Stipe, who said he always honors requests to sit, admitted later in the story that he'd prefer everyone to stand.
"I hate the people who sit down at a game," he said. "It's not that I try to stand and [expletive] everyone off. I want everyone to stand so that when we're on national TV we don't look like lumps on a log."
National TV? We're talking about the Browns here, right?
Look, I sympathize with Stipe. I much prefer standing to sitting while at games; it makes me feel like I'm into the game more. It also looks much better on television. But the decision to stand or sit is a collective one made by the crowd. If the people behind you aren't standing and aren't taking cues from you to stand, you're a jerk if you keep doing it. Stipe tells a sob story, but I'm guessing his one-sided account leaves out some key details about the extent of his standing, the annoyance of the crowd behind him or his reaction to security personnel. If his version is the complete truth, this is a preposterous miscarriage of ticket-holder justice. More likely than not, he wasn't booted for standing as much as he was for refusing to sit.
And we wonder why no team in the league fears coming to CBS. I have heard MANY stories like Stipes since the Gestapo moved to Cleveland in '99.
-
I loved standing on the Holte in my youth and couldn't have contemplated sitting. Later, when I actually had a little disposable income and the football had become so bad as to remind me that my feet were aching well before halftime, my mate and I opted for a seat in the Trinity. In 25 years or so in that same seat, I cannot ever remember anyone spoiling my enjoyment of the game by standing up in front of me.
I rarely go to games now, for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is that I always seem to get some selfish dickhead leaping to his feet 5 seconds before a goal is scored, thus obliterating my view. Unfortunately, I'm not so quick to my feet these days now that I have to live with the consequences of an old football injury, so it really pisses me off.
If safe standing areas were available, both the people who chose to sit and those who chose to stand would benefit. And I might just go a little more often.
-
I rarely go to games now, for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is that I always seem to get some selfish dickhead leaping to his feet 5 seconds before a goal is scored, thus obliterating my view.
To be fair, it doesn't happen all that often though, does it?
-
I rarely go to games now, for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons is that I always seem to get some selfish dickhead leaping to his feet 5 seconds before a goal is scored, thus obliterating my view.
To be fair, it doesn't happen all that often though, does it?
That's what makes it worse.:)
-
Not to mention all the standing for missed sitters.
-
I suppose I should count myself lucky. I get to see all the away team's goals.
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
-
Not sure if this has been posted already... a fan stands up and is challenged by Manchester Police...
-
And now we know how many police and stewards it takes to throw an old man out of a football ground.
Thankfully we get the same stewards every game in L1 and the relationship is friendly. We sit down when they come round and ask us to, which isn't often............... and the police on duty in that area seem to take their cue from the stewards and are also quite relaxed about the whole thing.
The club have our names and address's on their data base so if they wanted to take action it wouldn't be difficult for them to do so.
Thankfully they seem to be quite relaxed about it too. But as always it only takes one idiot to spoil things.
-
Scottish Premier League gives green light for standing areas:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16248937.stm
-
Scottish Premier League gives green light for standing areas:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16248937.stm
At long last common sense is beginning to show a few green shoots of reappearing.
-
Scottish Premier League gives green light for standing areas:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16248937.stm
At long last common sense is beginning to show a few green shoots of reappearing.
In fairness, you stand more chance of seeing a crowd in a chip shop than at an SPL game.
-
The FA are still taking this approach......
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8AxQJmfsHNY/SRHWhr6yzqI/AAAAAAAAATc/Mj9ZkZxWpkk/s400/head-up-butt.png)
-
Don't know how anyone can complain about safe standing.
They can still sit in a seated area of the ground.
No-one is forcing them to stand up.
-
Also can someone please explain to me why it is deemed dangerous to stand up while watching Aston Villa play at Villa Park?
Yet it is deemed safe to stand up while watching Take That play at Villa Park?
-
Also can someone please explain to me why it is deemed dangerous to stand up while watching Aston Villa play at Villa Park?
Yet it is deemed safe to stand up while watching Take That play at Villa Park?
When was the last time you stood on the pitch to watch a game of football?
-
Also can someone please explain to me why it is deemed dangerous to stand up while watching Aston Villa play at Villa Park?
Yet it is deemed safe to stand up while watching Take That play at Villa Park?
When was the last time you stood on the pitch to watch a game of football?
Ask any of our team from Sunday (winky thing)
-
Not sure if this has been posted already... a fan stands up and is challenged by Manchester Police...
That is absolutely fucking disgraceful.
-
I think that was the incident that happened against us.
-
Not sure if this has been posted already... a fan stands up and is challenged by Manchester Police...
That is absolutely fucking disgraceful.
I don't know any background to this video but it's clearly been edited - you don't see the incident that caused the police to approach the bloke and you don't see how he ended up on the floor. How you can draw any conclusions from that one way or the other is beyond me.
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
Yes, please save us from a return to the days when twenty frightened looking blokes from Chelmsley Wood sneaked onto the Holte, stood as far away from the back as they possibly could, didn't say boo to a goose, then grassed themselves up to the police and asked for an escort to their own end as soon as anybody worked out who they supported. Kind of like you coming on here.
There really was nothing to worry about, and there still isn't. As evidenced by Villa taking the absolute piss in the Cup game last season, Villa v Blues is the hooilgan equivalent of Barcelona taking on the might of Gravesend and Northfleet.
-
Not sure if this has been posted already... a fan stands up and is challenged by Manchester Police...
That is absolutely fucking disgraceful.
I don't know any background to this video but it's clearly been edited - you don't see the incident that caused the police to approach the bloke and you don't see how he ended up on the floor. How you can draw any conclusions from that one way or the other is beyond me.
Seeing it happen at the game, they were trying to make them sit down. Nothing more than that.
Standing is clearly only dangerous when tits such as those in these videos try and force you into your seat.
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
Are you at it again? 'Them' coming down to the Holte End to duff us up? Unbelievable.
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
Are you at it again? 'Them' coming down to the Holte End to duff us up? Unbelievable.
He's acting out some kind of bizarre revenge fantasy in response to being bullied by nasty Villa fans, obviously. Still fooling the moderators though, so fair play to him.
-
Not sure if this has been posted already... a fan stands up and is challenged by Manchester Police...
That is absolutely fucking disgraceful.
I don't know any background to this video but it's clearly been edited - you don't see the incident that caused the police to approach the bloke and you don't see how he ended up on the floor. How you can draw any conclusions from that one way or the other is beyond me.
There's a very long thread about it on Bluemoon - "trouble in east stand"
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
Are you at it again? 'Them' coming down to the Holte End to duff us up? Unbelievable.
Do you remember all that bollocks about them being in the Holte in 2003?
Seems to be some sort of wet dream for the Noses to "get in the Holte".
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
Are you at it again? 'Them' coming down to the Holte End to duff us up? Unbelievable.
Do you remember all that bollocks about them being in the Holte in 2003?
Seems to be some sort of wet dream for the Noses to "get in the Holte".
There was a couple in front of us, a bloke and a woman. Nobody hit him, but she left with about fifteen lumps of chewing gum in her big curly perm. A few people were dropping them in there and they were so scared they wouldn't even look round. Bet she enjoyed that date.
-
I remember a bloke in the upper Witton getting belted down the stairs, but didn't see any in the Holte.
What I recall most about it was the reporting of the Noses intentions in almost fevourish fashion in the Evening Mail.
-
I remember a bloke in the upper Witton getting belted down the stairs, but didn't see any in the Holte.
What I recall most about it was the reporting of the Noses intentions in almost fevourish fashion in the Evening Mail.
Yes. And it was so far-fetched even the Sunday Sport wouldn't have printed it.
-
There was a couple in front of us, a bloke and a woman. Nobody hit him, but she left with about fifteen lumps of chewing gum in her big curly perm. A few people were dropping them in there and they were so scared they wouldn't even look round. Bet she enjoyed that date.
That's pretty moronic behaviour, truth be told.
-
There was a couple in front of us, a bloke and a woman. Nobody hit him, but she left with about fifteen lumps of chewing gum in her big curly perm. A few people were dropping them in there and they were so scared they wouldn't even look round. Bet she enjoyed that date.
That's pretty moronic behaviour, truth be told.
I know, there's really no justifcation for that at all. Big curly perms were well past their sell by date in 2003.
-
Bring back standing in the winter. It will be warmer.
-
There was a couple in front of us, a bloke and a woman. Nobody hit him, but she left with about fifteen lumps of chewing gum in her big curly perm. A few people were dropping them in there and they were so scared they wouldn't even look round. Bet she enjoyed that date.
That's pretty moronic behaviour, truth be told.
I know, there's really no justifcation for that at all. Big curly perms were well past their sell by date in 2003.
Perhaps it was actually an afro, you RACIST.
-
Also can someone please explain to me why it is deemed dangerous to stand up while watching Aston Villa play at Villa Park?
Yet it is deemed safe to stand up while watching Take That play at Villa Park?
When was the last time you stood on the pitch to watch a game of football?
Ask any of our team from Sunday (winky thing)
Applause!
-
There was a couple in front of us, a bloke and a woman. Nobody hit him, but she left with about fifteen lumps of chewing gum in her big curly perm. A few people were dropping them in there and they were so scared they wouldn't even look round. Bet she enjoyed that date.
That's pretty moronic behaviour, truth be told.
Taking your missus to sit in the Holte End as an away fan at the most hostile local derby in years? Spot on.
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
Are you at it again? 'Them' coming down to the Holte End to duff us up? Unbelievable.
He's acting out some kind of bizarre revenge fantasy in response to being bullied by nasty Villa fans, obviously. Still fooling the moderators though, so fair play to him.
On the Liverpool post match thread he asked why we allowed a couple of scousers to go unhindered with their celebrations of their second goal down the front of the Holte. It is hardly subtle.
-
My mate got me a ticket for Fulham v Man Utd game last night; as a Xmas present. Quite enjoyed not having to fret about a game.
Anyway, we were in the "neutral" zone, which was right next to the away fans. I say "neutral" because it was about 80/20 Man Utd fans.
Interestingly, the Man Utd fans in the neutral area sat throughout the game in response to the seated Fulham fans, but a few feet away they stood the entire game like most away fans do. It was a very strange, and welcome, display of courtesy to the Fulham fans in their own ground.
-
I agree that standing areas for ST holders, well governed and no tickets sold to non-ST holders could work. There's no way we would ever go back to standing areas that you can buy tickets for match by match, The knuckle dragging sty dwellers would love the chance to come onto the holte terraces again i'd imagine.
Are you at it again? 'Them' coming down to the Holte End to duff us up? Unbelievable.
He's acting out some kind of bizarre revenge fantasy in response to being bullied by nasty Villa fans, obviously. Still fooling the moderators though, so fair play to him.
On the Liverpool post match thread he asked why we allowed a couple of scousers to go unhindered with their celebrations of their second goal down the front of the Holte. It is hardly subtle.
That's a dead giveaway. As a typical nose, he can't comprehend it when opposing fans who are vastly outnumbered aren't attacked. Those are the only kind of odds they like. Which in turn explains why they give it the big 'un at the Sty (albeit from behind fences and police), yet scurry about like silverfish with the lights on as they leave Villa Park and head back to the safety of coaches upon which they negotiate their three-mile journey home. Pathetic.