Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Zhong Yi on August 22, 2011, 03:35:14 AM
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this is a surprise, in the Daily Mirror:
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Aston-Villa-could-offload-Jean-Makoun-to-Olympiakos-article788792.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Aston-Villa-could-offload-Jean-Makoun-to-Olympiakos-article788792.html)
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He hasnt really impressed and he's probably too lightweight for what we need in the middle of the park anyway, so not really bothered if he goes. If we can bring in someone more suitable and an improvement on Makoun then get rid.
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There's definitely a player in there somewhere. And if our resources were such that we could do what we did with Petrov - have a huge earner taking the best part of two years to find consistent form- fair enough.
But we can't.
Makoun out - and in his place a midfielder more capable of hitting the ground running - would be decent business. Providing we don't take a huge hit on the TF fee.
I like Luke, but at his age if we could get a younger version on possibly less money we'd have to look at that too.
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Did he ever arrive?
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This should be in the transfer rumour section.
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No surprise to me at all
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He has'nt really been given a fair crack yet has he really? We tend to give up on new players too easily nowadays if they have'nt set the world alight after 3 games.
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Right player, wrong time.
Might be the sort of trading we'll need to do to bring anyone else in.
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Surprised by these "hasn;t really impressed"comments. Okay he's a bit rash in the challenge but so is Delph. He's impressed me with his passing and vision, especially at Old Trafford last year, very tidy on the ball and can pick a through ball out. I'm not sure what people expect. I really hope he stays and is given a proper chance. If he's going it's probably more to do with him thinking he would be playing under Houllier and perhaps not fitting into AM's plans or style.
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Right player, wrong time.
Might be the sort of trading we'll need to do to bring anyone else in.
Tend to agree, Matt. He's a decent player but we've got Delph and Banan who do essentially the same job and if it is one in, one out then I'd rather it was him out of the three. That said, if we just get rid without bringing in another body I'll be pissed off.
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I'd be disappointed to see him go without a chance to show us what he can do. However, I could see the logic in losing him to get a dominant midfielder in, like Parker or similar.
Its true that Delph, Bannan, Gardner (soon) and in some ways Petrov cover what he offers.
This should only happen if we dont get mugged off on any potential deal and a replacement HAS to be tied up first.
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I called his one about 6-8 weeks ago. He is Houlliers man, and not settled as we would have hoped. Good player for sure, but worried he will get sent off before 60 minutes every week! McLeish on Sporting life is quoted as saying that it is possible that he will go but not without someone else coming in too.
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I said back when GH was ill that I thought Makoun would be gone in the summer.
He was very much a GH player.
He was very good until the red card at Blackpool.
I would sell him & let McLeish get in his own player.
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Dissapointing if true. The guys passing is class. Yet people slate him despite only playing 7 games for us.
Would love to see him given a chance, but if he doesnt fit into the managers plans then so be it, our loss.
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Let him go and get Parker...
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No surprise to me at all
Me either. I think it's obvious he won't be cut out for the Premier League. The bloke who bought him didn't play him much, and McLeish obviously doesn't fancy him either. No pace and can't tackle. Bannan is a far better prospect, as he showed on Saturday.
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Not happy with this, firstly I think he's a good player and secondly I just got a shirt with his name on the back.
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No surprise to me at all
Me either. I think it's obvious he won't be cut out for the Premier League. The bloke who bought him didn't play him much, and McLeish obviously doesn't fancy him either. No pace and can't tackle. Bannan is a far better prospect, as he showed on Saturday.
Totally agree
I think Delph and Petrov/AN other behind Bannan
It is obvious AM doesn't fancy makoun and what I have seen of makoun albeit fleetingly was that the pace of the game passed him by and he had no awareness of what was going on around him - hence caught in possession too often then the next tackle is a booking.
I liked the look of Steven N'Zonzi on Saturday, a big lump who put himself about a bit and has a good touch
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No great supprise to me, every manager has their own ideas on players and we keep on hearing about the wage bill needing to be lowered.
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Not seen enough of him to make any sort of opinion other than he's good at short passing. AM has been watching the squad for over a month now so he will have his ideas as to who fits better where with the resources available so I'll trust his judgment as far as Makoun is concerned.
If Makoun going out, sold or on loan means Parker comes in, well, that would be just wonderful.
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J2M out and Parker in would be a great result.
I'm afraid that J2M might be the new Mattieu Berson
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I think it's inevitable he'll go - as mentioned above he's the purchase of a former manager and doesn't suit/fit with the new one.
I'll be sad to see him go, he's shown glimpses of being a really good player - tidy on the ball, good eye for a pass always make himself available. However in the new economic reality we find ourselves in he's a lot more attractive to other teams than Heskey or Beye so i imagine Big Eck will move on to make wage space available for a midfielder he wants - probably a tough bastard.
I think Delph and Bannan are key to our midfield - what impresses me is that they both want the ball and find space to receive it - if lost track of how many seasons we have looked like a static team with senior players hiding from the ball.
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Surprised by these "hasn;t really impressed"comments. Okay he's a bit rash in the challenge but so is Delph.
Totally agree, Delph is like Frank Spencer on roller skates in the tackle. I think people are little disappointed that Makoun isn't the sort of Essien style midfield enforcer that he was billed as, but you don't have to be overly physical to anchor a midfield. His game is to do things simply, get it, move it then offer for it and attempt to get the ball off the opposition by interceptions and positioning. I think that when he came over here he may have overcompensated and threw himself into the tackle a bit too often, but I'd give him a chance to find a way to play his natural game in this league. His performance at Old Trafford should be enough to perusade anyone that we should give him a chance to do just that.
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Surprised by these "hasn;t really impressed"comments. Okay he's a bit rash in the challenge but so is Delph.
Totally agree, Delph is like Frank Spencer on roller skates in the tackle. I think people are little disappointed that Makoun isn't the sort of Essien style midfield enforcer that he was billed as, but you don't have to be overly physical to anchor a midfield. His game is to do things simply, get it, move it then offer for it and attempt to get the ball off the opposition by interceptions and positioning. I think that when he came over here he may have overcompensated and threw himself into the tackle a bit too often, but I'd give him a chance to find a way to play his natural game in this league. His performance at Old Trafford should be enough to perusade anyone that we should give him a chance to do just that.
There's a lot more to being a central midfielder than playing neat little five yard passes. It's a lazy comparison, but he really is very similar to Berson, who also had a good game at Old Trafford I seem to recall. Delph showed that he has the potential to be the complete midfielder on Saturday. Full of running, passing and tackiling, he really was excellent. Makoun is 28, and it's clear that his style is probably a lot more suited to the French league, and I just don't seem him being able to adapt. He's not suddenly going to learn to tackle at the age of 28.
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The way i see it is the main problem is that he doesn't fit into Mcleish's style. I think he likes two combative and strong central midfielders, which Makoun isn't. OK, he played DCM in France, but doing it in the PL is different and he'd need to play with a focused DCM behind him, when AM wants two of those. Is he attacking enough to play the furthest forward of a three? Not for me - more a deep lying play maker.
Ironically the player most of us want to replace him, Parker, is the exact sort we'd need to be able to play Makoun and get the best out of him.
So if this is true I think it's more tactical than about his ability as we need to focus our now more limited resources, so having a player that doesn't fit into the formation AM wants is always going to be first out the door.
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Shame if true as he can pick a pass out,was hoping he'd have big season for us. If it allows us to get in Parker though,it may be worth it. Spurs won't need him now.
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Get rid of Makoun & Ireland, get in Barton & play Bannan.
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Not happy with this, firstly I think he's a good player and secondly I just got a shirt with his name on the back.
Are you 12 ;-)
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considering the lightweight nature of the squad - in terms of personnel - and the fact we probably won't replace him, what is the point of selling when he has only played half a dozen times for the club? Unless he has said something to Agent Blue i cannot see the sense in flogging Jean Makoun, especially when u consider the reception he got when he signed for the club. Give him a season at least.
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considering the lightweight nature of the squad - in terms of personnel - and the fact we probably won't replace him, what is the point of selling when he has only played half a dozen times for the club? Unless he has said something to Agent Blue i cannot see the sense in flogging Jean Makoun, especially when u consider the reception he got when he signed for the club. Give him a season at least.
Directly from the article you're supposed to be commenting on:-
Asked about Makoun exiting the club, McLeish admitted: “It’s possible but we wouldn’t let anybody go unless somebody came in.”
And unless I'm missing some subtle humour, then calling our manager 'Agent Blue' is just plain childish!
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I think he's a good player, however if mcleish isnt interested then get rid but only if someone else comes in
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Move on Ireland too
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Strangely enough, why don't we offer him in a part swap and money for Parker, I think Makoun would fit West Ham set up well.
Worth a shot and West Ham have made it clear that 8 to 9ML will do it.
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Strangely enough, why don't we offer him in a part swap and money for Parker, I think Makoun would fit West Ham set up well.
Makoun's strength is short passing in midfield and West Ham are managed by Sam Allerdyce. By what measure would he suit their set up??
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Strangely enough, why don't we offer him in a part swap and money for Parker, I think Makoun would fit West Ham set up well.
Makoun's strength is short passing in midfield and West Ham are managed by Sam Allerdyce. By what measure would he suit their set up??
He's distinctly average.
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I'd keep him.
Even with Makoun in our squad, we're still a central midfielder light imo.
And Delph and Petrov already been booked twice so if we keep on having more godforksen refs like Attwell both will be suspended very quickly this season.
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If makoun leaves I would imagine it would be back to Lyon.
Which then begs the question how much money would we get? I would imagine that we haven't paid the full 6 million yet so we may be looking at zero money back for him.
I still cannot believe that we will sign parker for 8 million
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I think the bit in that article that is more surprising is that the wage bill is still around £80m, when you look at who has left..
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I doubt its anything like that now.
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Yep, we must have shaved about 10m off it since last season.
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I think the bit in that article that is more surprising is that the wage bill is still around £80m, when you look at who has left..
They've probably been lazy and jusy taken it from the last set of accounts before we sold some players.
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From Sporting life:
Asked about Makoun possibly leaving Villa, McLeish admitted: "It's possible but we wouldn't let anybody go unless somebody came in."
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Surprised by these "hasn;t really impressed"comments. Okay he's a bit rash in the challenge but so is Delph.
Totally agree, Delph is like Frank Spencer on roller skates in the tackle. I think people are little disappointed that Makoun isn't the sort of Essien style midfield enforcer that he was billed as, but you don't have to be overly physical to anchor a midfield. His game is to do things simply, get it, move it then offer for it and attempt to get the ball off the opposition by interceptions and positioning. I think that when he came over here he may have overcompensated and threw himself into the tackle a bit too often, but I'd give him a chance to find a way to play his natural game in this league. His performance at Old Trafford should be enough to perusade anyone that we should give him a chance to do just that.
There's a lot more to being a central midfielder than playing neat little five yard passes. It's a lazy comparison, but he really is very similar to Berson, who also had a good game at Old Trafford I seem to recall. Delph showed that he has the potential to be the complete midfielder on Saturday. Full of running, passing and tackiling, he really was excellent. Makoun is 28, and it's clear that his style is probably a lot more suited to the French league, and I just don't seem him being able to adapt. He's not suddenly going to learn to tackle at the age of 28.
I don't disagree that Makoun is more suited to the French League, but I do see a future for him here and think that his age is exactly why we should hold onto him. Other than Stan, he is the only player over 25 we have who can play a deep midfield role and his experience will be needed at some stage during the season. Also, I agree that he can't really slide tackle, but would suggest that he could teach our other midfielders a thing or too about winning the ball without going to ground, which is a much more important ability for a midfielder to have in the modern game than diving in every 5 minutes a la Cattermole.
Not saying that we should persevere forever with him, just give the guy a chance to adapt.
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Id be sad to see him leave so soon but if it meant getting parker in to replace him then i think it would benefit the team.
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He was never going to be the defensive midfielder we desperately need and were told he was. There is a good player in there no doubt but if we can get in a player we need more urgently then it will be a good move for the team.
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Makoun fitted into Houlliers philosophy of passing and moving. Mcleish`s style of play is more ball winner and tigerish in the tackle type player. Still think he is a player who would be able to give Bent and Zoggy a supply line that they both need .......
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Well Makoun has said he wants to stay and prove himself.
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I like what I have seen of him. Good passer and much more mobile then petrov (although a bit lightweight). I'd like to keep him.
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Maybe it comes down to getting one out before getting one in,and Jean the second is more attractive to others clubs than Ireland is. Wish it was the other way round,as I think he'd come good. Don't think we have another player with CL experience.
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If he goes it means that someone is coming in. I like Makoun and at a different time he'd be a very good player to have in our squad. Certainly if we were in Europe, and we needed the depth. However, given the current position we are in, we need players that are all going to meet the immediate goals of the club. I have to think Scott Parker is on the radar as he's exactly what we need right now, and for the next 2-3 years. Arguably even if he isn't as technically gifted he provides so much more in other areas and is an instant upgrade to what we have in our midfield today. His presence will be a massive boost to the young lads in the squad who one hopes will all eventually make their mark.
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
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considering the lightweight nature of the squad - in terms of personnel - and the fact we probably won't replace him, what is the point of selling when he has only played half a dozen times for the club? Unless he has said something to Agent Blue i cannot see the sense in flogging Jean Makoun, especially when u consider the reception he got when he signed for the club. Give him a season at least.
Directly from the article you're supposed to be commenting on:-
Asked about Makoun exiting the club, McLeish admitted: “It’s possible but we wouldn’t let anybody go unless somebody came in.”
And unless I'm missing some subtle humour, then calling our manager 'Agent Blue' is just plain childish!
without wishing to test u on experience:
AGENT BLUE: It is my opinion - Rodney Marsh style. End of.
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Parker on loan makes more sense as he certainly would be effective for 12-months. Then, once a few more are shifted off the wagebill, we go out and buy a younger version for the long term.
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considering the lightweight nature of the squad - in terms of personnel - and the fact we probably won't replace him, what is the point of selling when he has only played half a dozen times for the club? Unless he has said something to Agent Blue i cannot see the sense in flogging Jean Makoun, especially when u consider the reception he got when he signed for the club. Give him a season at least.
Directly from the article you're supposed to be commenting on:-
Asked about Makoun exiting the club, McLeish admitted: “It’s possible but we wouldn’t let anybody go unless somebody came in.”
And unless I'm missing some subtle humour, then calling our manager 'Agent Blue' is just plain childish!
without wishing to test u on experience:
AGENT BLUE: It is my opinion - Rodney Marsh style. End of.
It's 'you' not 'u' please.
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John haven't West ham quoted 4 million for a years loan?
I like Scott Parker for his attitude and work ethic but in that West Ham team it was easy to stand out. I watched him in the West Ham v Cardiff game and like the rest of the team he was mediocre.
I would have said yes a couple of years ago but not now.
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John haven't West ham quoted 4 million for a years loan?
That was the figure the press quoted earlier in the summer. It's excessive and if we're intersted we should be negotiating it down, but in princinpal I think a loan would be the way to go with Parker.
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A loan surely is the only option with Parker. A season for Gardner and Delph Training and first team appearences with him would be invaluable. Got to say Petrov has done well so far and still has a good season in him .......
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Makoun's a fine player with extensive Champions League and international experience. Disappointed we seem willing to let him go so easily.
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
Agree. He will be looking for a pay day now, and will be on the rundown from here.
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
Agree. He will be looking for a pay day now, and will be on the rundown from here.
Parker has never struck me as being anything other than totally professional. I think he'd be great for at least 3 years, and quite probably 4-5.
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He'll wanna have a good season with the euros at the end of it.
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
Agree. He will be looking for a pay day now, and will be on the rundown from here.
Parker has never struck me as being anything other than totally professional. I think he'd be great for at least 3 years, and quite probably 4-5.
Totally agree Risso, he's a VERY talented PROFESSIONAL.
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Diarra would be my first choice but if he's going to Spurs I'd take Palacios.
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Diarra would be my first choice but if he's going to Spurs I'd take Palacios.
Thats a good call,he started off well at Spurs. Bit like NRC,but with better control,and his wages wouldn't be outrageous.
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It seems unfair to me that we have put so much time and effort into trying to get Ireland to play that we should put so little effort into getting a return from Jean Makoun.
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Silly move in my opinion.. Ok, we've got 4 points from the 1st 2 games but the football ''we try to create'' has been dire to watch.. He's one of few play makers we have.. I don't think he's been given a fair shot at all.. And as for the statement ''Makoun isn't in Mcleash's long term plans''.. I really hope thats the other way round..
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Makoun fitted into Houlliers philosophy of passing and moving. Mcleish`s style of play is more ball winner and tigerish in the tackle type player. Still think he is a player who would be able to give Bent and Zoggy a supply line that they both need .......
Agreed
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http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11677_7117778,00.html
He wants to stay.. Give him a chance Eckles..
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Bent
Gabby ZoGGaz
Ireland
Delph Makoun
Warcock Young
Dunne Collins
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Silly move in my opinion.. Ok, we've got 4 points from the 1st 2 games but the football ''we try to create'' has been dire to watch.. He's one of few play makers we have.. I don't think he's been given a fair shot at all.. And as for the statement ''Makoun isn't in Mcleash's long term plans''.. I really hope thats the other way round..
I disagree with just about every word of that.
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Makoun is a luxury type player and I dont think we have the other type of players around that can support that. He is the sort of player that would make up the numbers in an Arsenal squad.
I think he is very different to the other midfielders we have but very typical of high level players in France.
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Sell him and get Parker/Barton. It would improve us immensely IMO.
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The defence-splitting ball he laid on for Ashley to crash the bar with against Wolves (and I think he replicated it in another game) is something we're crying out for. Bannan has the potential to do it but that's all it is at the momen, Ireland has done it but who knows if he's going to ever cop-on and regain the form he once showed? Makoun keeps the game moving with quick passes, in fact he's one of the few we have who understand the concept of pass and move.
If we sell him and buy someone like fucking McFadden I'll weep into my weetabix.
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He was one of the players i was looking forward to watching this season, I thought he should have been in a starter, he's exactly the sort of midfielder I would want in our midfield, bit obviously if he goes AM has other ideas
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Silly move in my opinion.. Ok, we've got 4 points from the 1st 2 games but the football ''we try to create'' has been dire to watch.. He's one of few play makers we have.. I don't think he's been given a fair shot at all.. And as for the statement ''Makoun isn't in Mcleash's long term plans''.. I really hope thats the other way round..
I disagree with just about every word of that.
Good for you..
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I suggested in transfer thread jimmy bullard
if we are to cut cloth accordingly
moving makoun on to reduce wage bill and replacing him with class act that is bullard be good business
in comparison bullard is expreienced and capable at premier league level
scores goals and creates not to mention a cheeky laugh to have in dressing room
he would be far better suited than makoun and would be chepaer to have - available on free.
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Jimmy fucking Bullard? The bloke who rivals Kieron Dyer for injuries and a prize wanker that got sacked from his last club? McGrath help us all.
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Jimmy Bullard. Wow.
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
Agree. He will be looking for a pay day now, and will be on the rundown from here.
Parker has never struck me as being anything other than totally professional. I think he'd be great for at least 3 years, and quite probably 4-5.
Scott parker will play CM until he is 36 ????
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
Agree. He will be looking for a pay day now, and will be on the rundown from here.
Parker has never struck me as being anything other than totally professional. I think he'd be great for at least 3 years, and quite probably 4-5.
Scott parker will play CM until he is 36 ????
Why not? McAllister did, for the Redscouse, and he'd been virtually semi-pro with the Sky Lose for the previous few years.
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It seems unfair to me that we have put so much time and effort into trying to get Ireland to play that we should put so little effort into getting a return from Jean Makoun.
Nobody wants to buy Ireland though, and McLeish can only trade players there are buyers for. I am pretty sure that if a club came in with a bid over 3m for Ireland that he would be out the door pdq.
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The only player I can see us possibly trading is makoun
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It's a sorry state of affairs if we have to trade Makoun. Granted I have not been that impressed with what I have seen of him, but he's only just joined the club. Surely we need to see a full season from him before we can justify clearing him out? He could turn out to be a bargain for whatever club would take him from us.
Keep him and if he still hasn't made an impact in January, look for bids.
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We need to add to the centre of the park. Not take away. Lets bring someone in and let them play with Makoun.
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
Agree. He will be looking for a pay day now, and will be on the rundown from here.
Parker has never struck me as being anything other than totally professional. I think he'd be great for at least 3 years, and quite probably 4-5.
Scott parker will play CM until he is 36 ????
Why not? McAllister did, for the Redscouse, and he'd been virtually semi-pro with the Sky Lose for the previous few years.
Very different players and the game has moved on even further since then. An all action midfielder will not be playing top level until 36 anymore.
In these times of frugal spending, buying Parker for 7m, with very little resale value, and putting him on a four year contract at 70kpw is laughable. Have we not learnt the lessons of O'Neill?
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Do you think that Parker has 3 seasons in him?
31 in October, picks up a few injuries I would bank on 2 years at best and for £8 million?
No thanks
Agree. He will be looking for a pay day now, and will be on the rundown from here.
Parker has never struck me as being anything other than totally professional. I think he'd be great for at least 3 years, and quite probably 4-5.
Scott parker will play CM until he is 36 ????
Why not? McAllister did, for the Redscouse, and he'd been virtually semi-pro with the Sky Lose for the previous few years.
Very different players and the game has moved on even further since then. An all action midfielder will not be playing top level until 36 anymore.
In these times of frugal spending, buying Parker for 7m, with very little resale value, and putting him on a four year contract at 70kpw is laughable. Have we not learnt the lessons of O'Neill?
My thoughts exactly
I posted earlier that I like Parker for the type of player he is and his work ethic but he isnt what we need
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He's exactly what we need.
The lessons of MON are that we don't pay that highest level of wages to crap players, which Parker certainly isn't.
That having been said, giving him a long contract at his age is a big no no given our current financial state. So that's why I advocate a loan and pay them for 12-months only, provided West Ham don't stick to their ridiculous £4m asking proce for the loan.
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I'd be happy with him on a loan. But like you say, only if West Ham are realistic. Although it's their perogative not to be if they choose.
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He's exactly what we need.
The lessons of MON are that we don't pay that highest level of wages to crap players, which Parker certainly isn't.
That having been said, giving him a long contract at his age is a big no no given our current financial state. So that's why I advocate a loan and pay them for 12-months only, provided West Ham don't stick to their ridiculous £4m asking proce for the loan.
We wont get Parker on a year long loan because that will be no good for West ham
Signing him for anything above 2 years wouldn't work because of his age
His wages are going to be high and there will be no resale value - just like the majority of players we sign.
I would rather us go with our young players or sign a player 25 ish who at least can give you several years service
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We wont get Parker on a year long loan because that will be no good for West ham
Signing him for anything above 2 years wouldn't work because of his age
His wages are going to be high and there will be no resale value - just like the majority of players we sign.
I would rather us go with our young players or sign a player 25 ish who at least can give you several years service
I pretty much agree with you, other than the fact West ham did say he was available for a years loan earlier this summer.
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Silly move in my opinion.. Ok, we've got 4 points from the 1st 2 games but the football ''we try to create'' has been dire to watch.. He's one of few play makers we have.. I don't think he's been given a fair shot at all.. And as for the statement ''Makoun isn't in Mcleash's long term plans''.. I really hope thats the other way round..
I disagree with just about every word of that.
Me too. Houllier didn't persevere with Makoun, and after a full pre-season, McLeish has neither started Makoun nor given him time as a sub. Sometimes players just don't work out, and from what I've seen, Makoun's style of play just isn't suited to the Premier League. Lots of big name players have come a cropper over here, it's no disgrace, but what you shouldn't do is persevere regardless.
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I would rather sell Makoun & Ireland ahead of Bannan.
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We wont get Parker on a year long loan because that will be no good for West ham
Signing him for anything above 2 years wouldn't work because of his age
His wages are going to be high and there will be no resale value - just like the majority of players we sign.
I would rather us go with our young players or sign a player 25 ish who at least can give you several years service
I pretty much agree with you, other than the fact West ham did say he was available for a years loan earlier this summer.
John I think Wet Spam will try a sell him first failing that loan him but they will want a couple of million at least for a loan deal
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And personally, I'd pay a couple of million to loan him for the season.
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Can't see for the life of me how a player who can keep the ball pass the ball, be creative with it, make good pieacing through balls, and will only get better,is not suited to playing in the prem
Some of you guys are still living on the 1970's and will only be happy when we go and sign someone like Lee Catermole
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Can't see for the life of me how a player who can keep the ball pass the ball, be creative with it, make good pieacing through balls, and will only get better,is not suited to playing in the prem
Some of you guys are still living on the 1970's and will only be happy when we go and sign someone like Lee Catermole
I'd tend to agree John, though the fact he's 28 means time isn't on his side to adapt.
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Can't see for the life of me how a player who can keep the ball pass the ball, be creative with it, make good pieacing through balls, and will only get better,is not suited to playing in the prem
Some of you guys are still living on the 1970's and will only be happy when we go and sign someone like Lee Catermole
I'd tend to agree John, though the fact he's 28 means time isn't on his side to adapt.
The problem is the other players need to be on the same wavelength re moving and passing; making the ball do the work crisply with short passes. I'm not sure we have enough who are that type of player to succeed at the moment. Delph, Bannan, N'zogbia probably are but Gabby, Bent, Heskey, Collins, Dunne I would say are not.
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Silly move in my opinion.. Ok, we've got 4 points from the 1st 2 games but the football ''we try to create'' has been dire to watch.. He's one of few play makers we have.. I don't think he's been given a fair shot at all.. And as for the statement ''Makoun isn't in Mcleash's long term plans''.. I really hope thats the other way round..
I disagree with just about every word of that.
Me too. Houllier didn't persevere with Makoun, and after a full pre-season, McLeish has neither started Makoun nor given him time as a sub. Sometimes players just don't work out, and from what I've seen, Makoun's style of play just isn't suited to the Premier League. Lots of big name players have come a cropper over here, it's no disgrace, but what you shouldn't do is persevere regardless.
I really want Makoun to succeed. But we need answers today and if we don't have the luxury of hoping he adapts, then we might as well get in someone who can help immediately. I think Makoun is a terrific player with the right players around him, but that means buying the right players, something we're not going to do. Give me Scott Parker instead for 3 years while gthe likes of Bannan/Gardner/Delph/Hogg etc all come through and become established.
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At the moment in time we have Makoun, Delph, Petrov, Bannan and Ireland as established options for central midfield (G.Gardner hasn't made the bench yet and I don't think Hogg is good enough so not counting either).
Given Stan will be knackered by Xmas and Delph will probably be suspended a couple of times our options could get pretty thin there so I'd keep Makoun and try to get another central midfielder in on loan.)
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in the brief playing time he's had he's looked good, he's not been off the pace if anything he's been to quick minded for the other players around him, why sink to the lowest common denominator, instead of saying he's to good for the rest say let the rest improve or become quicker in thought, if they can't, then slowly bring in players that can, which I believe was always GH philosophy anyway.
The thing we desperately need is a midfield more comfortable with the ball that doesn't lose posetion to easily, that's why we concede many late goals, because we panic , that's why players like Macoun are needed if we are to move forward and improve
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in the brief playing time he's had he's looked good, he's not been off the pace if anything he's been to quick minded for the other players around him, why sink to the lowest common denominator, instead of saying he's to good for the rest say let the rest improve or become quicker in thought, if they can't, then slowly bring in players that can, which I believe was always GH philosophy anyway.
The thing we desperately need is a midfield more comfortable with the ball that doesn't lose posetion to easily, that's why we concede many late goals, because we panic , that's why players like Macoun are needed if we are to move forward and improve
Which of our other central midfield options would you say isn't comfortable in possession?
In an ideal world we would keep him but if we need to move players on in order to trade then he would appear to be one who is expendable.
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Makoun for me gets caught in possession far to often so his next tackle is a booking
I think he's okay and we have a lot of just okay players
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If, out of necessity, we're prepared to give Warnock and Ireland another chance surely it's worse persevering with Makoun too, unless we can get back the majority of what we paid for him.
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Would like to see him given a chance but with McLeish scrabbling around for cash he is probably heading for the exit. Parker will be getting nervy about a move I reckon now. The kind of player McLeish is looking for but his wages will be a problem.
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A loan for Parker would be ideal for all parties I think as long as the numbers are reasonable, say 2m fee. In addition I'd like to see one of our younger players go to West Ham on loan in return. Hogg or Gardner would benefit from playing every week (although Big Sam would not be my preferred manager).
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Can't see for the life of me how a player who can keep the ball pass the ball, be creative with it, make good pieacing through balls, and will only get better,is not suited to playing in the prem
Some of you guys are still living on the 1970's and will only be happy when we go and sign someone like Lee Catermole
I'd tend to agree John, though the fact he's 28 means time isn't on his side to adapt.
The problem is the other players need to be on the same wavelength re moving and passing; making the ball do the work crisply with short passes. I'm not sure we have enough who are that type of player to succeed at the moment. Delph, Bannan, N'zogbia probably are but Gabby, Bent, Heskey, Collins, Dunne I would say are not.
I would agree with you up until you mentioned Bent. His movement is brilliant and even though he does get caught offside often its only marginal because, he is on the last defender's shoulder constantely.
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I have to agree with John E, and I''m a bit baffled as to why people are saying he's not suited to the PL, or he hasn't adapted. He's featured in, what, 7 games, looked pretty good in most of them, and some of the ones he missed were through suspension (and fitness? and rotation?) issues rather than "not being persevered with by Houllier".
The threaded through ball for Bent's wrongly disallowed goal v Newcastle was something I've rarely if ever seen Petrov do the likes of. Delph, Bannan and Ireland may be capable of such, but who knows what the loon will do next and how BB and FD will turn out?
Heré's one of quite a few articles that mentioned JIIM's debut performance at Old Trafford and remarked on the exceptional number of completed passes, and the quality of them.
http://astonvillacentral.com/2011/02/jean-makoun-completes-85-passes-against-manchester-utd/
One of our biggest problems under both O'Neill and GH has been retaining possession yet here are some people saying the player probably best suited to addressing that problem is not right for the PL and is the most expendable. Another problem was lack of a bit of subtlety and creativiy in the final third, and his aforementioned through ball showed signs he could have something to offer in that department too.
Writing him off really doesn't make much sense to me.
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What would one of our not so young youngsters get by playing in the fizzy pop? We learnt sod all by sending the fonz and bannan out.
Surely if Parker is such a catch other teams will be in for him
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Thought he did well tonight
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goodbye!!
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The threaded through ball for Bent's wrongly disallowed goal v Newcastle was something I've rarely if ever seen Petrov do the likes of. Delph, Bannan and Ireland may be capable of such, but who knows what the loon will do next and how BB and FD will turn out?
I mentioned that earlier in the thread and cited his killer-pass to Young when he hit the bar against Wolves. I knew Makoun had done it again in another game but couldn't place it.
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I have to agree with John E, and I''m a bit baffled as to why people are saying he's not suited to the PL, or he hasn't adapted. He's featured in, what, 7 games, looked pretty good in most of them, and some of the ones he missed were through suspension (and fitness? and rotation?) issues rather than "not being persevered with by Houllier".
The threaded through ball for Bent's wrongly disallowed goal v Newcastle was something I've rarely if ever seen Petrov do the likes of. Delph, Bannan and Ireland may be capable of such, but who knows what the loon will do next and how BB and FD will turn out?
Heré's one of quite a few articles that mentioned JIIM's debut performance at Old Trafford and remarked on the exceptional number of completed passes, and the quality of them.
http://astonvillacentral.com/2011/02/jean-makoun-completes-85-passes-against-manchester-utd/
One of our biggest problems under both O'Neill and GH has been retaining possession yet here are some people saying the player probably best suited to addressing that problem is not right for the PL and is the most expendable. Another problem was lack of a bit of subtlety and creativiy in the final third, and his aforementioned through ball showed signs he could have something to offer in that department too.
Writing him off really doesn't make much sense to me.
I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but his tackling is a worry. I don't just mean under par/ ineffective - I mean liability levels.
Also, his form has gradually dipped since his debut. I have seen enough of him to know he's a good player - his range of passing at home v Fulham was exceptional. But if he's feeling unsettled it will impact on performance -it's natural.
I have mixed feelings, If I'm honest. Part of me wants us to persevere with him -as their is definitely talent there. But another part of me thinks we've got the bit part roles covered with Bannan and Ireland. If moving Makoun out gets us someone who can come in and hit the ground running, we have to consider it.
In fact -if the offers were suitable enough - I'd be tempted to move both Makoun and Ireland out -if it meant we could bring in pretty much a guaranteed starter for the first XI.
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No doubt he can pick a pass but he is also prone to giving the ball away cheaply and losing possession. He's got away with it a few times (including a couple tonight) and against better opposition these mistakes would be punished. I see him as a younger version of Petrov but without the Premier League experience so he has potential, but someone like Parker would do a better job in our midfield right now.
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Luke Young, Barry Bannan, Jean Makoun going nowhere:
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/08/24/aston-villa-transfer-update-jean-makoun-barry-bannan-and-luke-young-97319-29292668/
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Fair enough Kevin Gage, he was sent off for one lunge against Blackpool, but I can't say I noticed any bad challenges against Newcastle, a game I managed to attend, or in other games, although I didn't manage to see the Fulham game which is one that many seem to be basing their opinions on. Rash tackling didn't stop Scholes being a massive contributor to Man Yoo, and it's something that Delph seems equally guilty of. Have there been more examples from JIIM or is he being vilified on the basis of one bad challenge at Blackpool? Fine if he's not AM's cup of tea and he decides he's the most expendable if it's one in one out, but let's not kid ourselves it's because he isn't good enough for the PL.
KRS our team has been full of players who give the ball away cheaply for the last five years or so, and the stats suggest that Makoun is far from the biggest culprit in that department. And as other have said, maybe sometimes he cedes possession because he's tried something that the other players are too dim or slow to pick up on. I think in Bent, Bannan, N'Zogbia and maybe if Ireland ever deigns to return to his home planet we have players with the nous and movement to gel with Makoun and make the most of his clever passes.
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I can't make my mind up on J2M.
Last night I think we'd have been better off with Hogg in the middle, giving a bit more freedom for Bannan to dictate the pace of our play.
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Thought he did well tonight
Was that a sarcastic comment ?
I thought he was poor and no one sat near me had a good word about his performance.
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Fair enough Kevin Gage, he was sent off for one lunge against Blackpool, but I can't say I noticed any bad challenges against Newcastle, a game I managed to attend, or in other games, although I didn't manage to see the Fulham game which is one that many seem to be basing their opinions on.
He also gave away a penalty v Everton -with a needless lunge at that tricky little player Jagielka, who was actually heading out of the penalty area at the time.
There were a few other examples in a number of games where if he'd actually made contact with his opponent, he'd have most likely seen red too. But the tackle was that late he missed the guy altogether...
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Fair enough Kevin Gage, he was sent off for one lunge against Blackpool, but I can't say I noticed any bad challenges against Newcastle, a game I managed to attend, or in other games, although I didn't manage to see the Fulham game which is one that many seem to be basing their opinions on.
He also gave away a penalty v Everton -with a needless lunge at that tricky little player Jagielka, who was actually heading out of the penalty area at the time.
In fairness Jagielka dived for that. Makoun possibly should have been wise to it but it wasn't a penalty; that afternoon Everton had earlier hit the bar and the ball bounced ''over'' the line but wasn't given and the ref was always going to give the slightest of decisions to them after that.
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Yes other tackles I can't comment on but to cite the everton pen is unfair as he clearly pulled out of any chAllenge and jagielka dived brushing his leg against makoun. I don't think you can blame him for a very ropey ref.
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No it wasn't sarcasm, His movement was excellent
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Phil, most fans won't see the movement off the ball, most fans are just following where the ball goes.
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He has had personal issues that have not helped him settle, and also a lack of French speakers at the club especially after the clear out haven't helped, but word is that with N'Zogbia around he should settle a little more and he has started making progress in his English lessons. Most continental midfielders that have more to their game then attack take time to settle in the PL. I'm absolutely confident that he will make a good contribution this season and by January will probably be one of our most useful and valuable players. His desire to stay makes me believe that he will put the effort in to impress the manager.
I only think he has been caught out in possesion because he hadn't adjusted to how little time he has on the ball in English football. It's obvious he can pass, it's obvious that he has brilliant off the ball movement and when the back four realise a bit better how and when to give him possesion his quality will come through. I think he is clever enough that if we give him the ball in midfield he can create plenty of space for the other midfielders and forwards to work with.
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We currently have Delph and Petrov playing in the CM positions that he would suit best. Petrov is old and likely to tire whereas Delph is still a youngster. I'd say that Makoun is an ideal guy to have around as he can replace either of the current centre midfielders.
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Gone to Olympiakos on a season long loan.
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Good bump, I was tempted to start a new thread.
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Disappointed, I thought he could be an upgrade on Petrov given a bit more time.
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Disappointed, I thought he could be an upgrade on Petrov given a bit more time.
He's not got the work rate.
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Surprised by these "hasn;t really impressed"comments. Okay he's a bit rash in the challenge but so is Delph.
Apart from the fact he can't tackle, he's Petrov in negative. Good luck to him, hope it works out. Very tidy player but we only need one Petrov.
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Just when he had learned a few words of english. Now he ahs to start learning greek. Incidentally if the rumblings coming out of the European Central Bank are anything to go by I hope we have some cast iron guarantees that the greek end of his wages can relied upon.
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Who's coming in? Palacios?
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Der Hammer. Nailed on. No pun intended.
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Who's coming in? Palacios?
Bannan/Ireland. They're cheaper!
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Der Hammer. Nailed on. No pun intended.
He joined wolfsburg the other week
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Der Hammer. Nailed on. No pun intended.
He signed a 3 year deal at Wolfsburg a couple of weeks ago.
*edit* Hmmm, I was a bit late there!
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I remember the game up at Old Trafford last season, he did'nt give the ball away once. He got sent off up at Blackpool and picked up an injury and did'nt really have much of a run after that. I think he would have come good given the time, we gave Petrov long enough.
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He was GHou's man... though I was under the impression that McLeish's knowledge of the European game is good (certainly compared to MON). Maybe he didn't want to risk giving Makoun a run and it not working out when he can get someone else in that he fancies (Craig Gardner started sulking at being benched at Sunderland yet?).
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Why the hell did I think it would be a good idea to get his name on the back of my shirt?
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Unless we get a pretty decent central midfielder in at some point in the next 48 hours then this move is absolutely ridiculous.
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So over the (long) weekend we lose 2 more first team squad members with still no more coming in. Bit of a joke now isn't it.
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So over the (long) weekend we lose 2 more first team squad members with still no more coming in. Bit of a joke now isn't it.
A complete f**king farce is is what this is.
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Seems like mentalism on a grand scale to let him go, I'd offer my services but I'm shit at football. Yes, I'm even worse than Nicky Shorey.
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Greece and Turkey is the end result for not quite fitting in footballers. Not surprised that he has ended up there. Amazed that we just keep shedding players without any replacements. I am now worried about the sort of transfers in we are likely to make. Could it get any worse?
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Why the hell did I think it would be a good idea to get his name on the back of my shirt?
I'd be in the store soon, asking them why Eck is making statements about players not leaving, if they're gonna leave anyway. 'caused you to waste your cash.
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Sorry to see him go as I was impressed the little saw of him.
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Why the hell did I think it would be a good idea to get his name on the back of my shirt?
Ditto.
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Sorry to see him go as I was impressed the little saw of him.
This.
Some of the comments about him being Djemba Djemba mk2 or Petrov in negative are quite baffling.
Oh well, no point crying over spilt milk and all that, time for the rest (whats left of them) to step up now.
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Sorry to see him go as I was impressed the little saw of him.
The little I saw of him was very unimpressive. Capable of a sideways pass or two and mistimed tackles as fas I could gather.
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I think I saw enough that I wanted to see more, but then Gezza wasn;t playing him much, neither did Gary Mac and now AM also doesn;t fancy him. Guess they must be right and me wrong, but I still think it's a shame.
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I think I saw enough that I wanted to see more, but then Gezza wasn;t playing him much, neither did Gary Mac and now AM also doesn;t fancy him. Guess they must be right and me wrong, but I still think it's a shame.
The only worry in my opinion is that it's another body out with no sign of a replacement, but I didn't think he was good enough. Another great use of funds to go with all the others.
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Still baffled at all these "didn't fit in" and too lightweight comments. He did more in his few games than petrov did in his first two years. And looked a much better player than petrov has for the last two years as well. Seems that if a player doesn't come in and perform miracles inhis first few games he's not up to it. I swear some of you couldn't spot a decent footballer if messi were squatting on you face.
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I swear some of you couldn't spot a decent footballer if messi were squatting on you face.
I'll bow to your far superior knowledge but from what I saw of him i'd class him as either 'so what' or 'not very good'. I've never heard of Messi, he sounds dangerously foreign to me.
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Still baffled at all these "didn't fit in" and too lightweight comments. He did more in his few games than petrov did in his first two years. And looked a much better player than petrov has for the last two years as well. Seems that if a player doesn't come in and perform miracles inhis first few games he's not up to it. I swear some of you couldn't spot a decent footballer if messi were squatting on you face.
Well the man who bought him didn't fancy him, McAllister didn't, and now neither has McLeish. Whatever you think about other fans' perceptions of footballers, three managers haven't rated him, and I agree with them.
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I'm sorry to see him go, he rarely gave the ball away and always kept us moving along with short passes rather than unnecessary dribbling. A very good player to have when protecting a lead.
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Dunno about the last part PW, but I did like his range of passing, especially early on.
He could play the simple pass, but he also had that awareness (and technique) to go for the less obvious ball at times. I don't know whether his tackling was just rusty as he needed to be brought upto speed with the game in the UK, or whether it was always going to limit his chances here.
Who knows, he might be back and we might get a chance to find out. Twelve months is a long time in football, no guarantee that the same manager will be in place et.c if/when he returns.
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He's a decent player but in a climate where we need to do a bit of horse trading to strengthen the squad he is expendable. We need players to do a job immediately while Bannan etc find their feet.
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Still baffled at all these "didn't fit in" and too lightweight comments. He did more in his few games than petrov did in his first two years. And looked a much better player than petrov has for the last two years as well. Seems that if a player doesn't come in and perform miracles inhis first few games he's not up to it. I swear some of you couldn't spot a decent footballer if messi were squatting on you face.
Well the man who bought him didn't fancy him, McAllister didn't, and now neither has McLeish. Whatever you think about other fans' perceptions of footballers, three managers haven't rated him, and I agree with them.
I have seen little of Makoun but observed somebody who was tidy on the ball and kept possession well, but was not an obvious "ball player" in the sense of having the ability to split a defence. Plenty of energy and the ability to mis-time a tackle too, but frankly not enough to judge him on - reminded me of Matthieu Berson, who seemed ok but never got enough playing time. Maybe we are not suited to this type of player. or, as Risso says, 3 managers have not seen fit to select him so maybe Makoun is simply not good enough.
Risso, your arguments re Makoun could apply to Emilio too - MON, Sven, Houllier, Capelo and er, Steve Bruce have all seen something that the man on the terraces manages to merely glimpse.
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Still baffled at all these "didn't fit in" and too lightweight comments. He did more in his few games than petrov did in his first two years. And looked a much better player than petrov has for the last two years as well. Seems that if a player doesn't come in and perform miracles inhis first few games he's not up to it. I swear some of you couldn't spot a decent footballer if messi were squatting on you face.
What utter garbage. Makoun has contributed absolutely nothing to the Villa cause and has been a complete waste of £6m. He isn't fit to lace Petrov's boots.
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I find it a bit depressing that we can't find space in a squad for a player who is comfortable in posession and didn't often give the ball away. He could also play through balls to good effect including one to Bent that resulted in an incorrectly disallowed goal (can't remember against whom) and one to Young against Wolves that he hit off the underside of the bar.
Players need time to settle and some are given longer than others. I enjoyed watching him play hope it works out for him in Greece.
At least one of our players will be in the Champs League.
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For what it's worth I think Makoun cost just over £4m.
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Risso, your arguments re Makoun could apply to Emilio too - MON, Sven, Houllier, Capelo and er, Steve Bruce have all seen something that the man on the terraces manages to merely glimpse.
True, I acknowledge that he brings a certain something to the table, but in my opinion, that's not enough to make up for his lack of goals. At the time we bought him, he wasn't what we needed.
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I find it a bit depressing that we can't find space in a squad for a player who is comfortable in possession and didn't often give the ball away.
Yes. As if a midfielder who's good on the ball and has a touch of class about him is a luxury player who we can't afford to 'risk' playing. He's not an 18-year-old fresh from Brazil - a seasoned international with a half-century of international caps and a pedigree of Champions League football. As I posted earlier, I'm really disappointed. I expected him to flourish alongside Delph this season, but he hasn't been given the chance.
I'd have moved Petrov on, used the fee and wages to sign the new midfielder. But I suppose there would have been few takers, whereas we've had no difficulty moving Makoun on. Which says something to me.
Oh, well.
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I called his one about 6-8 weeks ago. He is Houlliers man, and not settled as we would have hoped. Good player for sure, but worried he will get sent off before 60 minutes every week! McLeish on Sporting life is quoted as saying that it is possible that he will go but not without someone else coming in too.
Tbf i worry Delph is going to get sent off every game the way he tackles.
Disappointed we haven't kept Makoun, I just thought with him it would be the usual case of foriegn player taking 6 months to get up to speed.
Leaves us woefully short in central midfield though. Stan will be knackered by xmas starting every week, I think Delph's been booked in every game this season so I can see him getting a few suspensions this year and that leaves us with Bannan and Ireland with Ireland unreliable and someone who can't play in a central two imo.
Can see Clark playing a fair bit in central midfield again.
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I think what it boils down to, is that the midfielders we have are all better than Makoun. I'd much rather see Bannan in the team for a start, even Ireland.
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Watching Jean Deux v Hereford I thought he looked very average. It was an opportunity for him to shine and take his chance but he didn't. I expect he hasn' had time to settle in the UK or the PL and the fact that all of our coaches don't start him - GH, GM or AM probablay says more about the player than anything else. If it has freed up wages to bring somebody else in then fine.
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He may have improved if given the opportunities that the likes of Pires (when he first signed for Arsenal) and others were afforded once they first joined the league, but now we're unlikely to find out. I'll reserve judgement until I see who his replacement is, if we sign one at all.
One thing which does annoy me, is it's further unnecessary expense. We're making a habit of that.
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JMII would only work with a plan. A plan that has vanished with Houllier gone so probably the best thing.
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True. He's pointless in a a McLeish side.
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True. He's pointless in a a McLeish side.
By the end, even Houllier didn't seem to rate him much. Just not up to the Premier League standard I'm afraid, it happens. Look at Veron for example, great player, it just didn't work for him over here.
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if you didnt like him or rate him he's no loss is he,
like loseing Downing for me, no loss as far as i'm concerned because he aint that good
i didnt give a toss seeing a lot of these players go, only A Young and Macoun would i have liked to have stayed, and maybe a couple of lads we let out on loan i would have kept, although Macoun is a loan so he could come back
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I didn't know much about him before he arrived- and am none the wiser.
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Not exactly a player we'd miss under normal circumstances, but we've lost Ash, Downing, NRC and Makoun in midfield and signed just N'Zogbia. We were short of numbers as it was, but now were hideously light. Petrov is our only really senior in CM. Then there's Delph who's still very much got the jury out. Bannan is still debatably too small. Then who? We're in trouble. We don't just need a last day desperation signing. We need 2-3 new midfielders and decent ones. That's before we even start thinking about our weakness at fullback too. Dunno how we've suddenly got no money at all. This is worse than the Dougy days IMO. Bent will be gone next season (if not Jan).