Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: KevinGage on August 10, 2011, 06:03:15 PM
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...where would he rank in our all time greats?
Looking at old Beelzebub's daft face at the cricket in Edgbaston set be wondering, and provided the motivation for this half arsed thread.
I missed him in his pomp. But anyone who gets mentioned in the opening credits of Only Fools and Horses can't have been all bad. Being the first million pound player comes a distant second to that, obv.
Don't feel compelled to keep any feed back constructive, after the goings on of the past few nights feel free to vent here...
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Back in the day you were only allowed one sub so it would have been a toss up between him and Alun Evans as to who wore the tracksuit.
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Top five, maybe. Assuming he'd spent most of his career with us and not gone to Forest or any other club that was/is much bigger than Blues.
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From players i have seen
Macca
Yorkie
Sid
AGray
BLittle
Merse
were all certainly better, with a few more, Atkinson, Mortimer, Evans etc might not be far off.
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Go wash your mouth out right now. Perish the thought.
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...where would he rank in our all time greats?
Looking at old Beelzebub's daft face at the cricket in Edgbaston set be wondering, and provided the motivation for this half arsed thread.
I missed him in his pomp. But anyone who gets mentioned in the opening credits of Only Fools and Horses can't have been all bad. Being the first million pound player comes a distant second to that, obv.Don't feel compelled to keep any feed back constructive, after the goings on of the past few nights feel free to vent here...
wasn`t he sold for £999,999.99 because BC didn`t want him to be the 1st Million pound player
(sorry for being pedantic)
and No - he wouldn`t make my team
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Who?
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Yes an absolute genius. Probably the nearest English footballer to Messi.
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He had pace and was direct but his international record suggests he was a good but not outstanding player at the highest level.
Francis certainly wasn't as good as Little.
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Was Steve Hodge all that bad?
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what made you start to consider this question and why ?
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what made you start to consider this question and why ?
Looking at old Beelzebub's daft face at the cricket in Edgbaston set be wondering, and provided the motivation for this half arsed thread.
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theres no denying he was very very good. Those who think otherwise obviously know more about football than Brian Clough.
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as a big Frank Sinatra fan, i decided to name my youngest lad after the great man.
anyway his full name was Francis Albert Sinatra,
i just couldnt bear the thought of him going round being called Francis, and my wife wouldnt have Frank,
so Albert it is, theres not many other 3 year olds called Albert so its all worked out the best
sorry nothing to do with the topic, just thought i'd share
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I saw him play us in the 70's and he was pretty damned good; I always saw him and Sir Brian as touchstones for the respective clubs. He never said anything particularly negative about us when he played. Saw him later with Forest and he started to get more stick.
Then came the QPR match...
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From players i have seen
Macca
Yorkie
Sid
AGray
BLittle
Merse
were all certainly better, with a few more, Atkinson, Mortimer, Evans etc might not be far off.
Francis was as good as every one of those players, with the possible exception of McGrath, and certainly way, way better than the likes of Dalian Atkinson.
Let's not be blind about this, he was a fantastic player.
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He'd have been rubbish for us due to all that shit rubbed in his face.
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I know the question has been asked before, but never having seen the answer I'll ask again......
Has anybody ever seen Jasper Carrot and Trevor Francis together in the same room?
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I do recall Leighton Phillips being given the runaround one or twice by B-bub. Anyone remember a the local derby at the sty when Phillips was sent off and gave the ref the V sign. Classic.
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what made you start to consider this question and why ?
Partly what eammon has already mentioned, but also as an illustration maybe of the gulf between ourselves and the rabble down the road.
For them he seems to be without question their best of all time (not hard), For us, I do genuinely wonder whether he'd make the top 5. But that's when you open the thing out to players like McParland, Walker et.c - players who I've never actually seen in the flesh. Before the obvious one like McGrath, Little, Cowans et.c
Never particularly disliked the bloke in all honesty, even though he'd get the pantomime bad guy treatment. Probably not helped by the fact that he was partial to a dive or two.
As others have said, he always seems to speak positively about us too.
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the best player i ever saw play for blose was Frank Worthington
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What always confuses them is when you say "We let your best-ever player go."
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... hell would have frozen over.
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... hell would have frozen over.
We did.
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I would say he was ever bit a good as Brian Little - probably not as much skill but he was quick and direct and could play wide or through the middle.
If he had had an edge to his game, he could have been great. Just lacked a bit of aggression which Cloughie found frustrating, I think.
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He'd have been rubbish for us due to all that shit rubbed in his face.
That is always what comes to my mind when the player is mentioned! Jeez, we used to belt that song out with some gusto!
I think he was a very, very good player ... but he played alot of his football for Blues in the 2nd Div (they kept going up and then going back down; hmmm, heard that somewhere before). His career at Forest did not show him at his best; I think he'd already peaked.
for England, he wasn't playing in the best ever England team and because he was a poacher he needed something a little more robust around him; which he didn't get.
As for comparisons with Brian Little - I think Little was every bit as good, although he lacked a little of the pace that his Blues counterpart had.
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What a horrible thought, I couldn't handle him talking about Villa on TV with affection with that horrible nasal voice
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He was an awesome player in my opinion. I remember going to see him as a 16 year old in the days when I used to go to quite a few blues games with school mates. I cant remember who it was against now but he scored 4 goals and was utterly brilliant. I remember raving to my Dad about him and saying how much I wished he played for us.
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I wish Sky wouldn't keep pointing him out in the crowd at the test match.
The dog barks at the TV and I have to wash her spittle off the screen.
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I wish Sky wouldn't keep pointing him out in the crowd at the test match.
The dog barks at the TV and I have to wash her spittle off the screen.
That's a fine dog!
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I couldn't imagine him in Villa colours perish the thought.
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He was an extraordinarily naturally gifted player when he first burst into SHA's team when he was 16 or 17. As my Bluenose mate was apt to say, they tried hard to coach his natural ability out of him.
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Terrific player who I resent not because he played for SHA, not because he always seemed to score against us, but because I saw him as the primary reason Brian got that derisory half a cap. Given that Keegan would always get picked, the other striker place went to Francis, and inexcusably Mariner or Pearson. Travesty.
Hang your heads in shame Revie and Greenwood.
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I couldn't imagine him in Villa colours perish the thought.
Far too ugly.
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What a horrible thought, and an even horrible thread.
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It would not be so unthinkable had history proved different and Francis came through at the Villa and went on to play for us.
If he had a long period playing for us I'd say just about every reason for him to be so hated would be melted away.
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He only really stood out in a poor Blues side. His strike record with England was about one in four games, he had a couple of years at Forest and then the rest of his peak years were at Sampdoria with moderate success. I would say he was a very good player but I think only Bluenoses would use the word great. It would be interesting to see where Forest fans would put him in their list of greats.
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I remember him scoring a hat trick for qpr at villa park and taking the ball in the air under control before volleying into the top corner - even a fair few villa fans around me actually applauded that goal.
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Had Francis signed for us instead of our friends Brian Little might not have become the player we loved and we would have had to think up another chant for any stray dog who randomly walked on the pitch.
Come to think of it, it's a long time since we've seen a dog (the canine variety)walk on the pitch.
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I'm intrigued Dave. Are you saying that TF was on Villa's books or am I getting the wrong end of the stick.
Although it pains me to say it. If he had played for us I am sure that Villa fans would have held him in the same regard as Blues fans do and he would be regarded by many as our greatest player of the last half century.
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I'm intrigued Dave. Are you saying that TF was on Villa's books or am I getting the wrong end of the stick.
Although it pains me to say it. If he had played for us I am sure that Villa fans would have held him in the same regard as Blues fans do and he would be regarded by many as our greatest player of the last half century.
I said their greatest. I didn't say it was Francis.
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It wasn't Geoff Vowden was it?
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It wasn't Geoff Vowden was it?
I said "turned him down." I didn't say "took him off their hands."
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I'm intrigued so i googled Birmingham City's greatest players and the second link on the list is http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article2025420.ece.
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What always confuses them is when you say "We let your best-ever player go."
Brian Little? I think he failed the medical there though...
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What always confuses them is when you say "We let your best-ever player go."
Brian Little? I think he failed the medical there though...
Nope. Guess again.
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Gil Merrick? Heard rumours his dad was a Villa fan so he could have had a trial with us I suppose. Otherwise... Stan Lynn, Charlie Athersmith err... don't know.
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Joe Bradford. Their top scorer for 12 seasons. 7 goals in 12 England caps. We had him before they signed him.
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Ah, I always forget about him. He scored more goals for them than anyone ever has for us. Lucky they know sod all about their history!
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Excellent. I'll get my bluenosed relatives with that one. I may even tell them the answer.