Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: KevinGage on August 10, 2011, 06:03:15 PM

Title: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: KevinGage on August 10, 2011, 06:03:15 PM
...where would he rank in our all time greats?

Looking at old Beelzebub's daft face at the cricket in Edgbaston set be wondering, and provided the motivation for this half arsed thread.

I missed him in his pomp. But anyone who gets mentioned in the opening credits of Only Fools and Horses can't have been all bad. Being the first million pound player comes a distant second to that, obv.

Don't feel compelled to keep any feed back constructive, after the goings on of the past few nights feel free to vent here...



Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 10, 2011, 06:09:07 PM
Back in the day you were only allowed one sub so it would have been a toss up between him and Alun Evans as to who wore the tracksuit.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 10, 2011, 06:17:39 PM
Top five, maybe. Assuming he'd spent most of his career with us and not gone to Forest or any other club that was/is much bigger than Blues.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: barrysleftfoot on August 10, 2011, 06:47:09 PM


  From players i have seen

  Macca
  Yorkie
  Sid
  AGray
  BLittle
  Merse

  were all certainly better, with a few more, Atkinson, Mortimer, Evans etc might not be far off.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: D.boy on August 10, 2011, 07:16:45 PM
Go wash your mouth out right now. Perish the thought.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: woody4866 on August 10, 2011, 07:25:00 PM
...where would he rank in our all time greats?

Looking at old Beelzebub's daft face at the cricket in Edgbaston set be wondering, and provided the motivation for this half arsed thread.

I missed him in his pomp. But anyone who gets mentioned in the opening credits of Only Fools and Horses can't have been all bad. Being the first million pound player comes a distant second to that, obv.Don't feel compelled to keep any feed back constructive, after the goings on of the past few nights feel free to vent here...

wasn`t he sold for £999,999.99 because BC didn`t want him to be the 1st Million pound player
(sorry for being pedantic)
and No - he wouldn`t make my team
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: The Moose on August 10, 2011, 07:29:07 PM
Who?
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: olaftab on August 10, 2011, 07:42:35 PM
Yes an absolute genius. Probably the nearest English footballer  to Messi.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Big Dick Edwards on August 10, 2011, 08:08:13 PM
He had pace and was direct but his international record suggests he was a good but not outstanding player at the highest level.
Francis certainly wasn't as good as Little.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 10, 2011, 08:28:36 PM
Was Steve Hodge all that bad?
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: andyh on August 10, 2011, 08:29:27 PM
what made you start to consider this question and why ?
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: eamonn on August 10, 2011, 08:32:20 PM
what made you start to consider this question and why ?

Quote
Looking at old Beelzebub's daft face at the cricket in Edgbaston set be wondering, and provided the motivation for this half arsed thread.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Colhint on August 10, 2011, 08:33:45 PM
theres no denying he was very very good. Those who think otherwise obviously know more about football than Brian Clough.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: john e on August 10, 2011, 08:48:02 PM
as a big Frank Sinatra fan, i decided to name my youngest lad after the great man.
anyway his full name was Francis Albert Sinatra,
 i just couldnt bear the thought of him going round being called Francis, and my wife wouldnt have Frank,
 so Albert it is, theres not many other 3 year olds called Albert so its all worked out the best

sorry nothing to do with the topic, just thought i'd share
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Witton Warrior on August 10, 2011, 09:16:12 PM
I saw him play us in the 70's and he was pretty damned good; I always saw him and Sir Brian as touchstones for the respective clubs. He never said anything particularly negative about us when he played. Saw him later with Forest and he started to get more stick.

Then came the QPR match...
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 10, 2011, 09:19:08 PM


  From players i have seen

  Macca
  Yorkie
  Sid
  AGray
  BLittle
  Merse

  were all certainly better, with a few more, Atkinson, Mortimer, Evans etc might not be far off.

Francis was as good as every one of those players, with the possible exception of McGrath, and certainly way, way better than the likes of Dalian Atkinson.

Let's not be blind about this, he was a fantastic player.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Chris Smith on August 10, 2011, 09:22:03 PM
He'd have been rubbish for us due to all that shit rubbed in his face.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on August 10, 2011, 09:34:54 PM
I know the question has been asked before, but never having seen the answer I'll ask again......
Has anybody ever seen Jasper Carrot and Trevor Francis together in the same room?
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: steffo on August 10, 2011, 09:56:11 PM
I do recall Leighton Phillips being given the runaround one or twice by B-bub. Anyone remember a the local derby at the sty when Phillips was sent off and gave the ref the V sign. Classic.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: KevinGage on August 10, 2011, 10:07:28 PM
what made you start to consider this question and why ?

Partly what eammon has already mentioned, but also as an illustration maybe of the gulf between ourselves and the rabble down the road.

For them he seems to be without question their best of all time (not hard),  For us, I do genuinely wonder whether he'd make the top 5.  But that's when you open the thing out to players like McParland, Walker et.c - players who I've never actually seen in the flesh. Before the obvious one like McGrath, Little, Cowans et.c

Never particularly disliked the bloke in all honesty, even though he'd get the pantomime bad guy treatment. Probably not helped by the fact that he was partial to a dive or two.
As others have said, he always seems to speak positively about us too.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: john e on August 10, 2011, 10:16:46 PM
the best player i ever saw play for blose was Frank Worthington
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 10, 2011, 10:20:10 PM
What always confuses them is when you say "We let your best-ever player go."
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: SashasGrandad on August 10, 2011, 10:20:21 PM
... hell would have frozen over.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 10, 2011, 10:21:54 PM
... hell would have frozen over.

We did.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: nick harper on August 11, 2011, 08:20:34 AM
I would say he was ever bit a good as Brian Little - probably not as much skill but he was quick and direct and could play wide or through the middle.

If he had had an edge to his game, he could have been great. Just lacked a bit of aggression which Cloughie found frustrating, I think.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Mister E on August 11, 2011, 08:51:36 AM
He'd have been rubbish for us due to all that shit rubbed in his face.
That is always what comes to my mind when the player is mentioned! Jeez, we used to belt that song out with some gusto!
I think he was a very, very good player ... but he played alot of his football for Blues in the 2nd Div (they kept going up and then going back down; hmmm, heard that somewhere before). His career at Forest did not show him at his best; I think he'd already peaked.
for England, he wasn't playing in the best ever England team and because he was a poacher he needed something a little more robust around him; which he didn't get.
As for comparisons with Brian Little - I think Little was every bit as good, although he lacked a little of the pace that his Blues counterpart had.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on August 11, 2011, 08:54:54 AM
What a horrible thought, I couldn't handle him talking about Villa on TV with affection with that horrible nasal voice
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: willywombat on August 11, 2011, 08:59:06 AM
He was an awesome player in my opinion. I remember going to see him as a 16 year old in the days when I used to go to quite a few blues games with school mates. I cant remember who it was against now but he scored 4 goals and was utterly brilliant. I remember raving to my Dad about him and saying how much I wished he played for us.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: SashasGrandad on August 11, 2011, 09:06:59 AM
I wish Sky wouldn't keep pointing him out in the crowd at the test match.

The dog barks at the TV and I have to wash her spittle off the screen.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: willywombat on August 11, 2011, 09:18:15 AM
I wish Sky wouldn't keep pointing him out in the crowd at the test match.

The dog barks at the TV and I have to wash her spittle off the screen.

That's a fine dog!
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: darren woolley on August 11, 2011, 09:23:53 AM
I couldn't imagine him in Villa colours perish the thought.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: E I Adio on August 11, 2011, 09:56:42 AM
He was an extraordinarily naturally gifted player when he first burst into SHA's team when he was 16 or 17. As my Bluenose mate was apt to say, they tried hard to coach his natural ability out of him.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on August 11, 2011, 10:09:34 AM
Terrific player who I resent not because he played for SHA, not because he always seemed to score against us, but because I saw him as the primary reason Brian got that derisory half a cap. Given that Keegan would always get picked, the other striker place went to Francis, and inexcusably Mariner or Pearson. Travesty.

Hang your heads in shame Revie and Greenwood.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 11, 2011, 12:25:12 PM
I couldn't imagine him in Villa colours perish the thought.

Far too ugly.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: saunders_heroes on August 11, 2011, 12:45:28 PM
What a horrible thought, and an even horrible thread.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: TheSandman on August 11, 2011, 02:09:48 PM
It would not be so unthinkable had history proved different and Francis came through at the Villa and went on to play for us.

If he had a long period playing for us I'd say just about every reason for him to be so hated would be melted away.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Damo70 on August 11, 2011, 03:40:14 PM
He only really stood out in a poor Blues side. His strike record with England was about one in four games, he had a couple of years at Forest and then the rest of his peak years were at Sampdoria with moderate success. I would say he was a very good player but I think only Bluenoses would use the word great. It would be interesting to see where Forest fans would put him in their list of greats.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: eastie on August 11, 2011, 03:51:02 PM
I remember him scoring a hat trick for qpr at villa park and taking the ball in the air under control before volleying into the top corner - even a fair few villa fans around me actually applauded that goal.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 11, 2011, 04:14:05 PM
Had Francis signed for us instead of our friends Brian Little might not have become the player we loved and we would have had to think up another chant for any stray dog who randomly walked on the pitch.

Come to think of it, it's a long time since we've seen a dog (the canine variety)walk on the pitch.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Larry Duff on August 11, 2011, 07:27:18 PM
I'm intrigued Dave. Are you saying that TF was on Villa's books or am I getting the wrong end of the stick.

Although it pains me to say it. If he had played for us I am sure that Villa fans would have held him in the same regard as Blues fans do and he would be regarded by many as our greatest player of the last half century. 
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 11, 2011, 08:39:58 PM
I'm intrigued Dave. Are you saying that TF was on Villa's books or am I getting the wrong end of the stick.

Although it pains me to say it. If he had played for us I am sure that Villa fans would have held him in the same regard as Blues fans do and he would be regarded by many as our greatest player of the last half century. 

I said their greatest. I didn't say it was Francis.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Larry Duff on August 11, 2011, 09:59:22 PM
It wasn't Geoff Vowden was it?
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 11, 2011, 10:00:19 PM
It wasn't Geoff Vowden was it?

I said "turned him down." I didn't say "took him off their hands."
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: gervilla on August 11, 2011, 10:08:25 PM
I'm intrigued so i googled Birmingham City's greatest players and the second link on the list is http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article2025420.ece.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Stu on August 11, 2011, 11:44:41 PM
What always confuses them is when you say "We let your best-ever player go."

Brian Little? I think he failed the medical there though...
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 11, 2011, 11:51:10 PM
What always confuses them is when you say "We let your best-ever player go."

Brian Little? I think he failed the medical there though...

Nope. Guess again.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 12, 2011, 12:51:03 AM
Gil Merrick? Heard rumours his dad was a Villa fan so he could have had a trial with us I suppose. Otherwise...  Stan Lynn, Charlie Athersmith err... don't know.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 12, 2011, 01:03:34 AM
Joe Bradford. Their top scorer for 12 seasons. 7 goals in 12 England caps. We had him before they signed him.
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 12, 2011, 01:05:31 AM
Ah, I always forget about him. He scored more goals for them than anyone ever has for us. Lucky they know sod all about their history!
Title: Re: If Francis Had Been a Villa Player...
Post by: Stu on August 12, 2011, 01:13:50 AM
Excellent. I'll get my bluenosed relatives with that one. I may even tell them the answer.
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