Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Billy Walker on July 07, 2011, 12:02:10 PM
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Just to take our minds off what is going on at the club at the moment, I have just stumbled across this:
http://www.grahambuddauctions.co.uk/bidcat/detail.asp?SaleRef=GB18&LotRef=407
(Apologies Mods for the long link.)
I never even realised there was a programme for this fixture - and if I had have known then I would have sold everything I own to put in a bid. This item, for me, embodies everything that is unbeatable about Aston Villa Football Club.
Further examination of the site yields even more Villa treasures that have recently gone under the hammer.
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Great find. It never occurred to me there was a programme for this.
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Das ist Ausgezeichnet!
Won't please jackthevillain though.
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I wonder how many more little gems like this there are out there.
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Makes your heart swell just a litle bit
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The thing I like about this kind of stuff is that it might educate the younger football supporter out there that the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester United etc. were all small fry and unheard of back in the day. Villa were "the" name and world famous before the lot of them.
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It says on the link the game was played the day after the England international. I am sure there was more of a gap between the two games. Didnt Eric Houghton appear in both ?
In the Summer of 1938 Villa toured Germany where they created International headlines by refusing flatly to give the Nazi salute, unlike the England team of the time who had complied with DEMANDS to do so. The England team who played in Berlin lost 6-3 to the German National Team.
It was an episode that rekindled pride in British Independence and made Villa many friends. The Incident caused much Embarrassment to the British Government who were trying to appease the German Dictator. In England Villas gesture was generally applauded and made the club many friends.
The next game between the two teams, and the last to be played before World War II, was again in Germany, a friendly at the Olympic Stadium in Berlin on 14 May 1938, played in front of a crowd of 110,000 people. It was the last occasion on which England played against a unified German team until the 1990s. This was the most controversial of all the early encounters between the two teams, as before kick-off the English players were ordered by the Foreign Office to line up and perform a Nazi salute in respect to their hosts. How compliant the players were with this situation has been a matter of debate, with a feature in The Observer in 2001 speculating that they were "perhaps merely indifferent players (who had undoubtedly become more reluctant, to the point of mutiny, by the time the post-war memoirs were published)."[5]
A BBC News Online report published in 2003 reported that the salute was calculated to show: "that Germany, which two months earlier had annexed Austria, was not a pariah state. The friendly game effectively helped clear the way for Chamberlain's "Peace for our time" deal with Hitler, which, in turn, led to Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia."[6] England won the match 6–3, but according to German writer Ulrich Linder, author of the book Strikers for Hitler: "To lose to England at the time was nothing unusual because basically everybody lost to [them] at the time. For Hitler the propaganda effect of that game was more important than anything else."
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Just to reply to Andy_Lochead:
I think Villa and England toured together - and, I think, Houghton played in both matches on consecutive days. I could be wrong, though, and would be very interested to hear otherwise.
The Germans had been inviting English club sides over for a number of years prior to this tour but this one was seen as the "big" tour hence England and Villa being invited over together. We forget just how famous and influential a club Villa were back then. I think the tour had been organized as part of a propaganda push on Hitler's part with the FA and British Government viewing it as the perfect opportunity to cement diplomatic ties between the two nations, possibly being able to pacify the worsening political situation. It certainly represents a key moment in the development of sport being used as a political tool.
I remember reading that Villa and England were placed under huge pressure by the FA and British diplomats to do the salute - it might actually have been from an interview with Houghton.
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I wonder how many more little gems like this there are out there.
If anyone has a Villa v Huddersfield 1922 Cup Final program I'll give them a couple of bob for it. :-)
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One of our players (can't remember who just now) played in both games. We actually played a stronger team than England did as our opponents were a Germany and Austria XI. First game we were asked to salute and refused. Second game we were told to and did, after a fashion.
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One of our players (can't remember who just now) played in both games. We actually played a stronger team than England did as our opponents were a Germany and Austria XI. First game we were asked to salute and refused. Second game we were told to and did, after a fashion.
Was that when Houghton "lobbed the V's" as it were?
I've said in past debates on here and I'll say it again, the story of this tour would make a great documentary or film.
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According to this site, the only Villa player of the X1 for the England game was Frank Broome. No mention of Eric Houghton.
http://www.englandfootballonline.com/Seas1900-39/1937-38/MS216Ger1938.html
According to Chris Nawrat and Steve Hutchings' The Sunday Times Illustrated History of Football, England were determined that Germany should not benefit from the Anschluss in this match and obtained an agreement that the German team would not include any Austrian players on the condition that Aston Villa would play a friendly match the next day against a combined German and Austrian team.
However, Houghton is mentioned here.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/aston_villa/article4652386.ece?token=null&offset=84&page=8
Eric Houghton was a brilliant, hard-shooting winger for Villa and England in the 1930s, an FA Cup-winning manager with the club in the 50s and a director in the 70s. No one laid better claim to the title Mr Aston Villa. But Eric was no Europhile and he hated the Germans with a passion. On the BBC’s wonderful oral history of the game Kicking and Screaming in the 1990s he gleefully told the tale of taking a penalty against German opposition on a Villa tour. “The keeper came off his line and said to me ‘You English pig, you English pig’, trying to put me off. I said ‘You get back on your line Fritz and I shall endeavour to knock your square head into a round one’. And the ball shot just past him on the way in, hit the stanchion then almost got him again as it came out.”
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According to this site, the only Villa player of the X1 for the England game was Frank Broome. No mention of Eric Houghton.
http://www.englandfootballonline.com/Seas1900-39/1937-38/MS216Ger1938.html
According to Chris Nawrat and Steve Hutchings' The Sunday Times Illustrated History of Football, England were determined that Germany should not benefit from the Anschluss in this match and obtained an agreement that the German team would not include any Austrian players on the condition that Aston Villa would play a friendly match the next day against a combined German and Austrian team.
However, Houghton is mentioned here.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/aston_villa/article4652386.ece?token=null&offset=84&page=8
Eric Houghton was a brilliant, hard-shooting winger for Villa and England in the 1930s, an FA Cup-winning manager with the club in the 50s and a director in the 70s. No one laid better claim to the title Mr Aston Villa. But Eric was no Europhile and he hated the Germans with a passion. On the BBC’s wonderful oral history of the game Kicking and Screaming in the 1990s he gleefully told the tale of taking a penalty against German opposition on a Villa tour. “The keeper came off his line and said to me ‘You English pig, you English pig’, trying to put me off. I said ‘You get back on your line Fritz and I shall endeavour to knock your square head into a round one’. And the ball shot just past him on the way in, hit the stanchion then almost got him again as it came out.”
Thanks for that.
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they still are the greatest club in the world to me. I pity other fans that dont have Villa
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great stuff. wonder what jack would make of this? ;D
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It would be interesting to see Aston Villa if they keep up the rate of progress before WWII today. It would be interesting to see what Eric Houghton thought of Aston Villa today and Randy Lerner era.
Did Eric see us win European Cup (Not sure when he died)
This history is wonderful :)
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How much did it go for?
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£210.
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I'd just like to add that we are the greatest club in the world. Always have been, always will be.
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I'd just like to add that we are the greatest club in the world. Always have been, always will be.
Exactly.
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It would be interesting to see Aston Villa if they keep up the rate of progress before WWII today. It would be interesting to see what Eric Houghton thought of Aston Villa today and Randy Lerner era.
Did Eric see us win European Cup (Not sure when he died)
This history is wonderful :)
I think he did SPA. I'm sure I saw him in the North Stand foyer circa 1986-87. He was getting on then but great to listen to (by that, I mean his accent when he spoke). A real local hero.
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I wonder how many more little gems like this there are out there.
If anyone has a Villa v Huddersfield 1922 Cup Final program I'll give them a couple of bob for it. :-)
I'll happily sell it to you along with London Bridge and a handful of magic beans.
(we didn't play Huddersfield in the 1922 final... it was 1920!)
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Sad statto alert. You're worse than me!
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Has to be made into a documentary/film. We should get onto Tom Hanks about it, I'm sure he has connections!!
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Has to be made into a documentary/film. We should get onto Tom Hanks about it, I'm sure he has connections!!
It could be done like 'Escape to Victory' using real actors and a few present day players. Tom Hanks can play Eric Houghton and we could draft in the likes of Dunne, Collins etc. I suggest Klinsman, Ballack, Huth etc for some of the german players. With his brummie accent Thomas Hitzlperger could be cast on either side.
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£210.
Blimey I would have given them more than that
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I've got a postcard sent by the squad from Germany with all their autographs on. I'd scan and post it if I could work it out !
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I'd just like to add that we are the greatest club in the world. Always have been, always will be.
Name: Legion.
Specialist subject: Stating the bleedin' obvious.
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Good article in last night's Mail too which adds to our greatness. Something I wasn't aware off.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/07/07/aston-villa-the-day-the-claret-and-blues-won-the-baseball-league-97319-29010957/
Sorry for the long link.
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I've got a postcard sent by the squad from Germany with all their autographs on. I'd scan and post it if I could work it out !
Is that anything to do with this ?
(http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/d48856/d4885613r.jpg)
ASTON VILLA, GERMAN TOUR, 1938
Price Realized
£180
Football Memorabilia
3 April 2007
London, South Kensington
OverviewLot Description
ASTON VILLA, GERMAN TOUR, 1938
notebook in blue morocco, gilt edges (spine worn), containing autographs of the Aston Villa, Germany tour side
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Good article in last night's Mail too which adds to our greatness. Something I wasn't aware off.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/07/07/aston-villa-the-day-the-claret-and-blues-won-the-baseball-league-97319-29010957/
Sorry for the long link.
Didn't you read my review in a previous issue of H&V?
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Sorry Lee, missed that.
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I've got a postcard sent by the squad from Germany with all their autographs on. I'd scan and post it if I could work it out !
Hard to imagine now but there was a special 1st day issue envelope/postcard with "Fußballspiel Aston Villa F.C. -Deutsche Nationalmannschaft 15.5.1938" postal stamps
(http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!B60p98gCGk~$(KGrHqZ,!hgEyr3scv69BMyeFqYBVQ~~-1_3.JPG)
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Like :)
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I've got a postcard sent by the squad from Germany with all their autographs on. I'd scan and post it if I could work it out !
Hard to imagine now but there was a special 1st day issue envelope/postcard with "Fußballspiel Aston Villa F.C. -Deutsche Nationalmannschaft 15.5.1938" postal stamps
(http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!B60p98gCGk~$(KGrHqZ,!hgEyr3scv69BMyeFqYBVQ~~-1_3.JPG)
Its a postcard sent to someone in Aston from Fred Biddlestone I think (I'm on memory here as I keep it in the safe at work). On the front is some German spa town and on the back is all the squad autographs, inc Eric H's signed W E Houghton I think and the famous coach who's name escapes me. It has a rather spooky postmark on which incorporates the Nazi swastika. It would have gone well with that Lot at auction I guess. I purchased it more than 10 years ago,with a 1938 program so it's a nice little bundle .
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You are not the greatest club on the earth. Your fans are shite.
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You are not the greatest club on the earth. Your fans are shite.
Fuck off!!!
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You are not the greatest club on the earth. Your fans are shite.
...no we've not got any vacancies for ex News of the World journalists thank-you. The door is that way
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You are not the greatest club on the earth. Your fans are shite.
That's it, comrade, vent your envy here. Get it out your system.
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Can everyone just please ignore the tedious oaf of a troll?
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You are not the greatest club on the earth. Your fans are shite.
Is your username short for my ha-ha-hang-ups include a stu-stu-stutter and a tiny penis?
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Lol
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Eric Houghton died in 1996.
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Was the refusal to give the Nazi salute an anti-fascist statement, or more a refusal to salute to any foreign ruler other than the british king?
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Was the refusal to give the Nazi salute an anti-fascist statement, or more a refusal to salute to any foreign ruler other than the british king?
Good question. Which raises the bigger question of what motivated people to fight in WW2. How much was it defending your own country against an expansionist power and how much was it being opposed to the ideology of National Socialism ?
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The thing I like about this kind of stuff is that it might educate the younger football supporter out there that the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester United etc. were all small fry and unheard of back in the day. Villa were "the" name and world famous before the lot of them.
Makes your heart swell just a litle bit
Likewise your Penis!
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I've got a postcard sent by the squad from Germany with all their autographs on. I'd scan and post it if I could work it out !
Hard to imagine now but there was a special 1st day issue envelope/postcard with "Fußballspiel Aston Villa F.C. -Deutsche Nationalmannschaft 15.5.1938" postal stamps
(http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!B60p98gCGk~$(KGrHqZ,!hgEyr3scv69BMyeFqYBVQ~~-1_3.JPG)
Don't let spk and our other enlightened friends over in off topic know about the man shafting. Though being a man shafter to a national standard does actually sound pretty impressive.