Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on July 04, 2011, 09:33:45 AM
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birminghammail.net
CARLOS Cuellar is likely to remain at Villa Park next season and see out the final year of his contract.
New boss Alex McLeish wants to see what the 29-year-old is made of before deciding on his future.
Glasgow giants Rangers have already had a £1.5 million bid turned down for Cuellar, who arrived in an £8 million deal from Ibrox in 2008.
Any further bids are likely to be resisted as McLeish looks to build a squad capable of improving on last season’s ninth-place finish.
Cuellar has admitted in the past that a move back to Scotland would interest him but he is also happy to see out his fourth year at Villa Park.
There are still question marks over whether Rangers could afford to pay his wages anyway, even if he was prepared to sign on reduced terms.
The former Osasuna defender is one of only a few players to have met new manager McLeish as he has been recovering from an ankle injury at Bodymoor Heath while the majority of the squad are enjoying their summer holidays.
And although there have not been any in-depth talks between the two, McLeish is believed to want to keep the Spanish centre-half on board.
Cuellar could be back in light training by the time the players return for pre-season next Friday, giving him the chance to impress the new boss.
Having spent the summer at Villa’s training facility, he admits that things are starting to look up.
“The recovery is going well, I’m gaining strength and in a couple weeks I’ll be training with the team,” Cuellar said.
“If there is no complication I’ll be ready for the first game, away at Fulham. I hope we have a better season this year.”
Cuellar is a well-liked figure at Villa because of his jovial and bubbly personality.
Very rarely is he seen without a smile on his face and his jokes have made him one of the most popular players in the dressing room.
His experience is also good for some of the younger pros, who can look up to him and take advice that will help further their careers.
At former club Blues, McLeish managed to build a squad with a great team spirit and Cuellar is a player who fits into his mould.
Last season the Spaniard was often overlooked by Gerard Houllier as he made just 16 appearances in all competitions.
Niggling injuries at the start and end of the season also played a part as he was no exception to one of the most crippling injury crisis’ ever to hit the club.
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Right decision.
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One of those players who gets better with every game he doesn't play in.
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He's not just a good player, he's one of the few genuinely positive influences we have in the dressing room.
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Good. Said a week or so ago if that the best offer on the table is £1.5m from Rangers, we're best off keeping Carlos. Can't buy any kind of replacement for that money, and at 29 he's got plenty of football left in him.
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Worth keeping to see if AM can get him back to the form he showed before MON broke him by playing him at right-back
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Ironically though, those forlorn months at right back improved, ever so slightly, his ability to play the ball when in possessino. I think he is one of the better centre backs we have, so it's good to see him stay. He should have been played a lot more than he has been to date though, and preferably in the centre.
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I'd ship him out and get the money for him. He's gonna be third choice at best, and he'll be off next Summer anyway.
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I want him to stay Carlos and Clark would be my ideal pairing next season.
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One of those players who gets better with every game he doesn't play in.
aka "the theory of back up Quarterbacks"
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If he's only going to fetch a couple of million I don't see the point in selling him now, may as well hang on and take the contract gamble.
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I'm pleased with this.
A much better option than letting Rangers have him for next to fuck all.
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I'd ship him out and get the money for him. He's gonna be third choice at best, and he'll be off next Summer anyway.
Tend to agree
We can't afford to keep spunking 8 million on a player then getting sod all back
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I'd ship him out and get the money for him. He's gonna be third choice at best, and he'll be off next Summer anyway.
If he is a 3rd choice, he's a quality 3rd choice, better than the likes of Baker.
If we want a strong squad then we have to pay the money for good players to sit on the bench.
Plus, his attitude is always spot on.
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A terrific defender who can play at centre-back or right-back, we'll be stronger with him than without.
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Good. I hope he gets a new contract as well.
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On his day (pre-MON tinkering) he's easily a better centre half than either Collins or Dunne. He's also not a git like the other two.
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On his day (pre-MON tinkering) he's easily a better centre half than either Collins or Dunne. He's also not a git like the other two.
No, just not true.
He'd a decent old fashioned blocker but the other two can pass the ball where he appears to have triangular feet. He did a good job as a right back where he also acted as a third centre back for set pieces but he's just one of your causes to continue your tedious anti O'Neill campaign so you have to pretend he's better than he is.
That said I'm pleased he's staying because otherwise we'd have to buy a replacement.
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On his day (pre-MON tinkering) he's easily a better centre half than either Collins or Dunne. He's also not a git like the other two.
No, just not true.
He'd a decent old fashioned blocker but the other two can pass the ball where he appears to have triangular feet. He did a good job as a right back where he also acted as a third centre back for set pieces but he's just one of your causes to continue your tedious anti O'Neill campaign so you have to pretend he's better than he is.
That said I'm pleased he's staying because otherwise we'd have to buy a replacement.
bollocks. As a right-back he was completely utterly average, but was a victim of one of MON's ego trips. If you want an average right-back then buy one instead of forking out a fortune on a good centre half and turning him into one.
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On his day (pre-MON tinkering) he's easily a better centre half than either Collins or Dunne. He's also not a git like the other two.
No, just not true.
He'd a decent old fashioned blocker but the other two can pass the ball where he appears to have triangular feet. He did a good job as a right back where he also acted as a third centre back for set pieces but he's just one of your causes to continue your tedious anti O'Neill campaign so you have to pretend he's better than he is.
That said I'm pleased he's staying because otherwise we'd have to buy a replacement.
bollocks. As a right-back he was completely utterly average, but was a victim of one of MON's ego trips. If you want an average right-back then buy one instead of forking out a fortune on a good centre half and turning him into one.
Has there been a single day of your time posting on here in the last 12 months when you haven't mentioned MON? You're as bad as that other obsessive Mrs Overall.
Let it go man, you'll feel so much better.
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nice changing of the subject there, but you know i'm right :)
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nice changing of the subject there, but you know i'm right :)
I don't think you've ever been intentionally right about anything since you started gracing this site with your imaginative take on things.
Collins and Dunne are a better partnership than Cuellar with either of them, that's why he wasn't able to establish himself. He did a good job at right back and consequently we had a very solid defence for a season.
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Carlos is very unlucky to have not played more. He's more reliable than Dunne and Collins IMO. Never mind the fact he can't pass a ball, he's a defender, so first and foremost, he needs to defend. Aside from anything, under McCleish, we're probably not gonna be having ball playing centre-backs, and playing from the back. Dunne and Collins are hardly Maldini either. Plus Collins is often guilty of being too ambitious on the ball and gives the ball away just as often as Carlos may do.
For me his attitude makes him more consistent. He's not prone to concentration lapses like Collins, nor is he quite as cumbersome. Dunney, you just never know who's gonna show up. The top class man mountain CB, or the fat pub player.
I also think, of all our central defenders, Carlos reads the game better than the others, and covers his fullbacks very well.
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Good. A talent that has not been used as much as he should have been up to now.
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Excellent decision.
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Cuellar is shit loads better than Collins. Dunne, if he stays professional and fit is somewhat better than Cuellar but that is a big if. I'm delighted he's staying and hope he stays longer. It should be him and Dunne battling to play alongside a new signing.
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On his day (pre-MON tinkering) he's easily a better centre half than either Collins or Dunne. He's also not a git like the other two.
No, just not true.
He'd a decent old fashioned blocker but the other two can pass the ball where he appears to have triangular feet. He did a good job as a right back where he also acted as a third centre back for set pieces but he's just one of your causes to continue your tedious anti O'Neill campaign so you have to pretend he's better than he is.
That said I'm pleased he's staying because otherwise we'd have to buy a replacement.
Really?
Dunne maybe, but the ginger leg swinger isn't the most accomplished passers of the ball.
Poor Carlos. When he was played at right back, it was because he's defensively sound, and it didn't matter that he can't pass the ball.
Now he's unable to get a game at CB, because he can't pass the ball.
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Good news, a good player at centre back and also who I thought at the time was a very decent full back for that season he played there.
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Let's face it, we're not going to be constructing moves from centre half; we rarely construct them from central midfield. Considering what our defence was like for most of last season, skill on the ball shouldn't be one of the top criteria when choosing our centre halves. Carlos and one of Dunne or Collins would do, if we don't buy a new one.
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Good news. He is much better than Dullins. It lessens the pressure on us to sign centre backs too. We still need one mind.
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Let's face it, we're not going to be constructing moves from centre half; we rarely construct them from central midfield. Considering what our defence was like for most of last season, skill on the ball shouldn't be one of the top criteria when choosing our centre halves. Carlos and one of Dunne or Collins would do, if we don't buy a new one.
Or, as is far more likely, McLeish will come to the same conclusion as O'Neill, McDonald and Houllier and Cuellar will be back up to the other two.
An ability to pass it competently should be a minimum standard for any Premier League footballer. I like Carlos but as somebody mentioned earlier it's a classic case of the longer he is out of the side the better he is syndrome.
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Or, as is far more likely, McLeish will come to the same conclusion as O'Neill, McDonald and Houllier and Cuellar will be back up to the other two.
An ability to pass it competently should be a minimum standard for any Premier League footballer. I like Carlos but as somebody mentioned earlier it's a classic case of the longer he is out of the side the better he is syndrome.
Quite possibly. I hope not though. I remember Carlos playing poorly in the RB position but I don't remember many stinkers at CB. Certainly not as many as Collins and Dunne last season.
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Let's face it, we're not going to be constructing moves from centre half; we rarely construct them from central midfield. Considering what our defence was like for most of last season, skill on the ball shouldn't be one of the top criteria when choosing our centre halves. Carlos and one of Dunne or Collins would do, if we don't buy a new one.
Or, as is far more likely, McLeish will come to the same conclusion as O'Neill, McDonald and Houllier and Cuellar will be back up to the other two.
An ability to pass it competently should be a minimum standard for any Premier League footballer. I like Carlos but as somebody mentioned earlier it's a classic case of the longer he is out of the side the better he is syndrome.
Maybe my memory is hazy, but weren't you all for him being in the team at right back under the messiah? Now you've finally concluded his passing isn't up to it?
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Let's face it, we're not going to be constructing moves from centre half; we rarely construct them from central midfield. Considering what our defence was like for most of last season, skill on the ball shouldn't be one of the top criteria when choosing our centre halves. Carlos and one of Dunne or Collins would do, if we don't buy a new one.
Or, as is far more likely, McLeish will come to the same conclusion as O'Neill, McDonald and Houllier and Cuellar will be back up to the other two.
An ability to pass it competently should be a minimum standard for any Premier League footballer. I like Carlos but as somebody mentioned earlier it's a classic case of the longer he is out of the side the better he is syndrome.
Maybe my memory is hazy, but weren't you all for him being in the team at right back under the messiah? Now you've finally concluded his passing isn't up to it?
He was (in my opinion) the best right back we had at the time as, if you recall, Luke Young's brother had died. He got his chance and our defence was one of the tightest in the division so it would have been stupid to change it.
He isn't the best centre half we've got (in my opinion).
Why the need for the tiresome 'messiah' dig? Does it make you fell like a man?
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Let's face it, we're not going to be constructing moves from centre half; we rarely construct them from central midfield. Considering what our defence was like for most of last season, skill on the ball shouldn't be one of the top criteria when choosing our centre halves. Carlos and one of Dunne or Collins would do, if we don't buy a new one.
Or, as is far more likely, McLeish will come to the same conclusion as O'Neill, McDonald and Houllier and Cuellar will be back up to the other two.
An ability to pass it competently should be a minimum standard for any Premier League footballer. I like Carlos but as somebody mentioned earlier it's a classic case of the longer he is out of the side the better he is syndrome.
Maybe my memory is hazy, but weren't you all for him being in the team at right back under the messiah? Now you've finally concluded his passing isn't up to it?
He was (in my opinion) the best right back we had at the time as, if you recall, Luke Young's brother had died. He got his chance and our defence was one of the tightest in the division so it would have been stupid to change it.
He isn't the best centre half we've got (in my opinion).
Why the need for the tiresome 'messiah' dig? Does it make you fell like a man?
It's not a dig at you, it's a dig at the man himself and the high esteem he seems to carry himself in. So relax.
I actually think he is worthy of a place in the centre of our defence and I actually feel sorry for him as he has never let us down playing there. I also feel sorry for him that MoN stuck him out at RB for so long when there was a perfectly good right-back either playing at left back or on the bench. He had declared himself fit and psychologically ready after the family tragedy so he should have played - he too never let us down through all of that.
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But our defence that season was superb, there was no reason to change it. His ability in the air meant we were rarely embarrassed at set pieces as we were for much of last season so therer were sound reasons for doing it.
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The thing is, that is a sound enough reason for playing Cuellar at RB in tough away games (e.g. Chelsea) but not really good enough for winnable home games. In O'Neill's last season we were very solid at the back but struggled to score so playing Cuellar there was stifling us unnecessarily. We desperately needed to win rather than draw games to keep up the challenge for 4th but he seemed unwilling to make the change. The one game where he did play a better attacking RB was at Stamford Bridge.
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The thing is, that is a sound enough reason for playing Cuellar at RB in tough away games (e.g. Chelsea) but not really good enough for winnable home games. In O'Neill's last season we were very solid at the back but struggled to score so playing Cuellar there was stifling us unnecessarily. We desperately needed to win rather than draw games to keep up the challenge for 4th but he seemed unwilling to make the change. The one game where he did play a better attacking RB was at Stamford Bridge.
If we'd had a good attacking option I would agree but we didn't, we had the solid plodder Luke Young.
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If we'd had a good attacking option I would agree but we didn't, we had the solid plodder Luke Young.
Cafu he isn't; a better attacking RB than Cuellar he definitely is.
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His presence at RB helped us defensively in MON's last season as he frequently bailed out Collins, who unfortunately finds himself in the wrong position far too often. Our defensive success in the 09-10 season came at the cost of an impotent attack, as both our full-backs were uncomfortable in the opposition's half. Carlos is a very solid centre half back-up, and that is what he was used as last season. At £7.8m we would probably want some more, but that's not his fault.
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Cuellar - An average PL performer. He has cult status because he replies on twitter and facebook but let's not kid ourselves he's a great player.
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Cuellar is a must stay. We are short on players and him And Collins are our best defensive pairing. Pointless selling him for 2m. But he is not a RB and think Mcleish will quickly realise that .......
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If we'd had a good attacking option I would agree but we didn't, we had the solid plodder Luke Young.
Cafu he isn't; a better attacking RB than Cuellar he definitely is.
Yep, but not enough to make a difference, in my opinion, and disrupt a very good defence. As you say we didn't score enough goals and I really don't think Luke Young was the solution but by conceding few we made it less of an issue.
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In an ideal world we'd get Agger in the Downing deal.
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I'd ship him out and get the money for him. He's gonna be third choice at best, and he'll be off next Summer anyway.
What money?
And, he'd be a first-choice CB based on the performances of other candidates last season.
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In an ideal world we'd get Agger in the Downing deal.
Good shout, although we really need to strengthen at FB, imho, if CC is staying as a CB.
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If we'd had a good attacking option I would agree but we didn't, we had the solid plodder Luke Young.
Cafu he isn't; a better attacking RB than Cuellar he definitely is.
Yep, but not enough to make a difference, in my opinion, and disrupt a very good defence. As you say we didn't score enough goals and I really don't think Luke Young was the solution but by conceding few we made it less of an issue.
The defensive weaknesses last season were partly down to GH trying to play a more open, expansive style rather than backs to the wall for 80 minutes, where everybody was contributing to our great defence, not just the back four.
I wish we'd had a few more "solid plodders" like Luke Young in the team last season. As Hilts said, he may not be Cafu but he rarely let us down. 'Solid', yes. 'Plodder', you've got to be joking? As a former centre back himself, you've got to hope AM sorts out the defence once and for all.
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I'd ship him out and get the money for him. He's gonna be third choice at best, and he'll be off next Summer anyway.
What money?
And, he'd be a first-choice CB based on the performances of other candidates last season.
Exactly! I reckon Collins and Dunnbo let us down more than a few times last season. CC is a good CB and should be playing there. I love Dunny's do or die attitude at times but it's not good enough for the Prem (unless he goes on a massive fitness programme & loses a stone or 2). I'd love Scott Dann to join us with a view to having him paired with Clarky in a few years time Classy pairing imo.
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As a former centre back himself, you've got to hope AM sorts out the defence once and for all.
AM faces a dilemma though: Does he continue doing what has given him success in the future -- create a defensive-minded but successful team that rarely concede but only score by a miracle, or does he try to be Pep Guardiola, which will probably fail and look more like Ian Holloway? Hopefully, he'll manage to strike a balance.
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As a former centre back himself, you've got to hope AM sorts out the defence once and for all.
AM faces a dilemma though: Does he continue doing what has given him success in the future -- create a defensive-minded but successful team that rarely concede but only score by a miracle, or does he try to be Pep Guardiola, which will probably fail and look more like Ian Holloway? Hopefully, he'll manage to strike a balance.
Three things at least have to be taken into consideration:
1. At the Rags he never had any decent strikers. They defended well, played the ball about in midfield and then gave it to the opposition as there were no other options.
2. He has to realise that at Aston Villa, we expect much more even if we don't always get it.
3. He needs to buy well, not just on players that can do a job but players that do it and add something else.
I really think he will surprise a few people providing he gets his signings right and fans give him a chance.
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Yes, but my question is: is it somehow possible to get the best of both worlds? Will McLeish be able to do who what he's apparently not good at (getting the team to play decent football) now that he's got the personell to do it without forsaking what he IS good at (getting the team to defend well)?
I'm not sure if I believe so, but there's hope!
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At times it seems I follow a different team. Some of you seem to have been following a free-flowing, high-scoring outfit.
How often in recent years have we scored more goals than in 09/10 when Cuellar played at RB?
How often have we had a better goal difference?
Carlos Cuellar is an extremely good defender whether at CB or RB. His strength is that he covers the back line from penalty spot to right touchline, rather than staying out on the touchline as Walker or Young do. He isn't comfortable when carrying the ball out of defence but he more than makes up for it with his defensive qualities.
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I don't even think Carlos is that good a defender. Decent but not great, certainly not as good as the likes of Mellberg or Laursen. When playing RB and the opposition were attacking down the right wing, he kept drifting inside to his more natural CB position often leaving the left wing exposed. And his distribution makes Mellberg look like Beckenbauer. I think we need some new CBs as Collins is a trier but positionally all over the place, and Dunne is not always reliable.
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Cuellar was a strange signing at the time when we had signed Davies and Knight, while Laursen was still there. Laursen and Davies was the partnership so not sure where MON saw Cuellar fitting in. Cuellar was very poor in his first season when given chances at centre half. Once Laursen got injured, he had chances to bed down a place but if memory serves correct Knight and Davies were the partnership. Luke Young started that season brilliantly at right back but with Shorey struggling MON moved him to left back and Cuellar to right back for the game at Arsenal. I dont think he changed it back for the rest of the season. Cuellar was good in the air but without Young on the right we had neither full back pushing on which made us very predictable at home later that season.
Cuellar was poor imo at right back. He didnt like getting drawn to the touchline but was good when he tucked in, particularly in the air which wasnt Luke Young's strength. He was better defensively the season after with Collins and Dunne but his lack of ability on the ball was very apparent against weaker sides. Remember him having a good game next to Dunne at Old Trafford when we won (how times have changed!!) but Collins and Dunne was the better partnership in 09/10. 10/11, he was unlucky not to retain his place after a superb display at Wolves but he was injured a good bit and played poorly enough when given chances too.
Dont see the point either of letting his contract run out like Reo Coker. That is just piss poor financial management again by the board. Take the 3m now if someone offers it or else extend his deal by a year if we want him as cover. Imo if we are serious about Clark, then he needs to be third choice at a minimum centre half next season. Not too bothered which of Collins or Cuellar stays but Collins is younger. Think Dunne will have a massive season next time out with Euro 2014 approaching.