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Now that Ash has gone, I was wondering how we'd line up in the Fulham game was tomorrow? Basically, what is our best team. Rules are that new players can only included once they've signed and of course all the current squad can be used.
We can draw little tidbits from McLeish's comments about clean slates and what he said in the fan meeting. It'll be interesting to see how this changes as the summer progresses, more deals are done and we start seeing some pre-season
As it's an away game, I'd expect in a 4-5-1:-
Guzan
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Albrighton
Makoun
Petrov
Delph
Downing
Bent
Subs: Marshall, Cuellar, Collins, Bannan, Herd, Gabby Delfouneso.
Decent side that, all things considered.
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Pretty much agree John.
However, this is how we will line up...
Foster
Walker
Collins
Dunne
Enrique
Makoun
Delph
Milner (c)
Albrighton
N'Zogbia
Bent
Guzan
Clark
Young
Bannan
Gardner
Agbonlahor
Delfouneso
:)
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Pretty much agree John.
However, this is how we will line up...
Foster
Walker
Collins
Dunne
Enrique
Makoun
Delph
Milner (c)
Albrighton
N'Zogbia
Bent
Guzan
Clark
Young
Bannan
Gardner
Agbonlahor
Delfouneso
:)
I'll have what your having..
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New bloke
New bloke
New bloke
Collins
Clarke
Albrighton
Delph
Petrov
Makoun
New bloke
Bent
Subs:
New bloke
Dunne
L Young
Bannan
Familiar new bloke (Reo-Coker)
Agbonlahor
New bloke
EDIT : forgot about Jean Ducks!
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Based on our current squad, the most experienced XI would be:
Marshall
Beye
Collins
Dunne
Young L
Ireland
Petrov
Warnock
Downing
Heskey
Bent
:-X
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Didn't McLeish say something about pairing Gabby with Bent?
If so it would be 4-4-2 i'd imagine.
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After Tim's post I think I'm going to stop reading this thread until we've made a few signings...
-
Now that Ash has gone, I was wondering how we'd line up in the Fulham game was tomorrow? Basically, what is our best team. Rules are that new players can only included once they've signed and of course all the current squad can be used.
We can draw little tidbits from McLeish's comments about clean slates and what he said in the fan meeting. It'll be interesting to see how this changes as the summer progresses, more deals are done and we start seeing some pre-season
As it's an away game, I'd expect in a 4-5-1:-
Guzan
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Albrighton
Makoun
Petrov
Delph
Downing
Bent
Subs: Marshall, Cuellar, Collins, Bannan, Herd, Gabby Delfouneso.
Decent side that, all things considered.
Collins twice?
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Going with who is at the club at the time of writing, I'd go.
Guzan
L Young
Collins
Dunne
Clark
Albrighton
Petrov
Makoun
Downing
Agbonlahor
Bent
-
Subs:
Marshall
Ireland
Heskey
Beye
Warnock
Cuellar
Delph
-
Collins twice?[/quote]
Sorry - that should have been Clark in the subs.
-
Guzan
Young
Collins
Cuellar
Warnock
Albrighton
Delph
Makoun
Downing
Bent
Gabby
-
As above, subs Marshall, Dunne, Clark, Bannan, Ireland, Petrov, Heskey.
-
Guzan
Young Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Makoun Ireland Delph Downing
Bent
-
Guzan
Young
Collins
Dunne
Clark
Albrighton
Makoun
Delph
Bannan
Downing
Bent
Subs: Marshall, Cuellar, Warnock, Petrov, Ireland, Gabby, Fonz
Similar to most but I really want to see that midfield 3 at some point, I think they'd be great together going forward, would just need to work on them putting pressure on without having to kick people in the air.
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Can we change the thread title to First 7?
-
Guzan
Young
Collins
Dunne
Clark
Albrighton
Makoun
Delph
Bannan
Downing
Bent
Subs: Marshall, Cuellar, Warnock, Petrov, Ireland, Gabby, Fonz
Similar to most but I really want to see that midfield 3 at some point, I think they'd be great together going forward, would just need to work on them putting pressure on without having to kick people in the air.
I agree with that (though god does the defence need improving!). That midfield might not be the most physically imposing, but there's plenty of energy, tenacity and ability to keep the ball under physical pressure, not to mention three of the best technical players at the club (along with Downing's left foot and Petrov, maybe). Delph and Bannan in particular could really cause opposing teams damage, I feel, and with the experienced, and hopefully settled, Makoun to help them that could really work. My only worry is that Clark, Makoun and Delph are somewhat cards waiting to happen.
-
Guzan
Young,Collins,Dunne,Warnock
Albrighton,Clark,Petrov,Downing
Agbonlahor,Bent
Marshall,Cuellar,Baker,Ireland,Delph,Delfouneso,
Weimann
Still no place for Beye, Makoun or Heskey and Warnock,Dunne and Ireland would be under scrutiny for three games before the transfer window closed.
-
Foster
Young Collins Shawcross Warnock
Makoun Delph
Albrighton N'Zogbia Downing
Bent
-
Guzan
Young
Collins
Dunne
Clark
Albrighton
Makoun
Delph
Bannan
Downing
Bent
Subs: Marshall, Cuellar, Warnock, Petrov, Ireland, Gabby, Fonz
Similar to most but I really want to see that midfield 3 at some point, I think they'd be great together going forward, would just need to work on them putting pressure on without having to kick people in the air.
I agree with that (though god does the defence need improving!). That midfield might not be the most physically imposing, but there's plenty of energy, tenacity and ability to keep the ball under physical pressure, not to mention three of the best technical players at the club (along with Downing's left foot and Petrov, maybe). Delph and Bannan in particular could really cause opposing teams damage, I feel, and with the experienced, and hopefully settled, Makoun to help them that could really work. My only worry is that Clark, Makoun and Delph are somewhat cards waiting to happen.
Looks a bit lightweight in the middle of the park. Not sure we'd have enough steel with Bannan & Delph.
-
Guzan
Young Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Makoun Petrov Downing
Gabby Bent
Subs...Marshall Lichaj Clark Bannan Ireland Heskey Fonz.
Blimey.
Can anyone really see an eck team having two upfront and two out and out wingers away from home?
I also don't like this confirmed idea of pairing Gabby with Bent. Both work better as the lone striker so I'd rather stick with 4-5-1 away and maybe just do it at VP for the winnable home games.
-
Guzan
Young
Collins
Dunne
Clark
Albrighton
Makoun
Delph
Bannan
Downing
Bent
Subs: Marshall, Cuellar, Warnock, Petrov, Ireland, Gabby, Fonz
Pretty much what I would go for (Maybe Cuellar into the back four). I still have a bit of a worry about Makoun and Delph defensively as whilst they are willing to put their foot in they tend to do it a little too hard which may cost us. Whilst I think all three of that midfield are great footballers I fear we may have to sacrifice one of them to accommodate an NRC. With three footballers as good as Jean deux, Bazza and Fab whilst there are some question marks over them I feel we should at least give them a chance before letting these get in their way so I'd probably alternate two of them with an energetic, hard working player who puts his foot in sensibly.
Alex seems determined to play two up front at home so whilst I don't think it is absolutely the best way to go I can actually see it working if we try Delph or Makoun with someone like this new DM.
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The idea that 4-4-2 should be played at home as an attacking ploy is a myth. In a 4-4-2 you are unlikely to be able to keep the ball properly owing to numbers in midfield, ability to move off the ball and gaps between the lines, and if you don't have the ball then you are defending. 4-4-2 is, at best, a counter-attacking formation where the midfielders sit deep, you defend deep and look to break out with an outball to two forwards or the use of the wings.
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It all depends on the players within that 4-4-2.
If you've got a genuine attacking central threat and a striker that drops deep, then it can work to break down the bus parkers. However, neither Gabby nor Bent can do that too well and our best attacking midfielder is Ireland, so it may not work for us at home.
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I agree with the reservations about 4-4-2 and I'd much prefer a system with three in the middle. The trouble is that it seems that McLeish is inclined towards playing 4-4-2 (at least at home) next season.
My personal belief is that under MoN that the problems of the system were exacerbated by our personnel. We never did seem to get the right combination in central midfield. We had two players who were too similar in Petrov and Barry and laterly a Petrov who had started to fade badly paired with Milner who had to try to do the work two men later on in the game. If we re-sign NRC and pair him with Delph or Makoun it will work better. That said it will remain sub optimal and lack some creativity from the centre but hey-ho we're probably going to line up 4-4-2 next season anyway.
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Pretty much agree John.
However, this is how we will line up...
Foster
Walker
Collins
Dunne
Enrique
Makoun
Delph
Milner (c)
Albrighton
N'Zogbia
Bent
Guzan
Clark
Young
Bannan
Gardner
Agbonlahor
Delfouneso
:)
Don't you want us to bring in new players in central-defence where we arguably need them most?
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I think Gabby will be playing an Anelka type roll, with another on the other side of Bent in a 4-3-3. I can't see any of our current central midfield coping in a 4-42. Milner and Delph may be ok, were Jmmy to come back, but Diego would certainly not.
As such, with what we have right now -
Guzan
Cuellar
Collins
Dunne
Young
Makoun
Delph
Petrov
Downing
Agbonlahor
Bent
Subs
Albrighton - harsh I know, but gives flexibility
Bannan
Clark
Fonzy
Ireland
Marshall
Warnock
-
Bosnich,
Barrett,
Staunton.
Ugo,
Mcgrath.
Young,
Daley.
Milner,
Cowans,
Yorke,
Saunders.
Nailed on for Fulham
-
Enckleman
McGrath
Beckenbauer
Alpay
Albrighton
Kinsella
Leonhardsen
Fellaini
Nedved
Bent
Yorke
-
New keeper
Luke Young
Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Albrighton
Reo-Coker (?)
Makoun
Delph
Gabby
Bent
Subs:
Marshall
Beye
Clark
Petrov
Ireland
Bannan
Heskey
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Absolutely wildly optimistic...
GK Foster
RB Walker
LB Enrique
CB Clark
CB Dann
RW Albrighton
DM Delph
CM Milner
AM Diego
LW N'Zogbia
CF Bent
More realistic...
GK Given
RB Hutton
LB L Young
CB Dunne
CB Collins
RW Albrighton
DM Reo-Coker
CM Petrov
AM Delph
LW N'Zogbia (I reckon we'll sign him, and I like him, so he's in both teams!)
CF Bent
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I would love N'Zogbia. Is it realistic that we could sign him? I haven't really been following the transfer merry-go-round.
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I don't see why not. Out of contract next year, so they'll sell. He'd probably choose Liverpool ahead of us (bigger reputation, wouldn't need to move house) but if they sign Downing they won't need them both.
I suppose there's always the chance some pesky foreigners will sign him, but I think we have a decent shot if we are seriously after him.
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I wouldn't be too bothered if Downing left if we got N'Zogbia, better player IMO. Downing is too passive. McCarthy at Wigan would be a good signing too.
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Whichever 11 we can put out?
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The thing is, if the players don't do all the silly shit that houllier had to put up with we've got the basis of a very good squad.
I reckon, if Downing goes, we need 6 players.
Goalkeeper
Left back
Right back
Defensive Centre Mid (I'd be happy to put this off until Jan though)
Left winger
Attacking midfielder who's comfortable across the pitch
The last one is the big one for me, that's the young replacement, someone who can play left, right or in the hole and do a good job in each.
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Guzan
Young
Warnock
Dunne
Clark
Albrighton
Makoun
Ireland
Downing
Bent
Agbonlahor
subs
Heskey, Collins, Bannan, Delfouneso, Marshall, Petrov , Beye
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Now that Downing has gone and Given done, I thought this might be worth revisiting? Sticking with 4-2-3-1:-
Given
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Makoun
Petrov
Albrighton
Ireland
Delph (most likely N'Zogbia)
Bent
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Now that Downing has gone and Given done, I thought this might be worth revisiting? Sticking with 4-2-3-1:-
Given
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Makoun
Petrov
Albrighton
Ireland
Delph (most likely N'Zogbia)
Bent
Not bad but fuck me how lightweight do we look in central midfield??
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We can always use Clark in midfield to beef it up if we cant get a convincing defensive mid. A role he impressed at I think although he's definitely a versatile centre half by trade.
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Pass me a Prozac :-[
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Not bad but fuck me how lightweight do we look in central midfield??
I don't think it's that bad really. Petrov we know can do a job, but his stamina is an issue for 90 minutes, and Makoun is still largely an unknown quantity. So could be quite good if we manage Stan well and Makoun delivers. Were it me I'd be tempted to play Delph ahead of them for more cover, but strongly suspect it'll be Ireland.
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Yes I can see Clark playing alongside Makoun/Delph in central midifeld a fair bit this season.
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I wouldn't be overly critical of him as he's a young player playing out of position at a time when we had injury problems all over the place, but I really wasn't all that impressed with Clark as a DCM.
I'd rather play Hogg or Herd there.
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Hogg won't be good enough long term imo.
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Herd is a good young player but I'm 50/50 on him to make it here at the moment, I dont think Hogg will make it. Clark played well in midfield I thought considering his inexperience there.
He's obviously good defensively, tidy on the ball and has an eye for a goal so I wouldn't rule it out now and then.
I'd sooner get a dedicated player for the role though. A Fofana, Witsel, Sissoko, Parker...etc.
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I agree, Maz.
It's a pretty specialist position these days, so we need a specialist for it. Parker is the obvious and best choice.
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Going on current squad;
Given
Young Dunne Clark Warnock
Makoun Petrov
Alby Delph Ireland
Bent
I agreed about Hogg & Herd - Mr & Mrs average. Wont make it IMO
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Hogg won't be good enough long term imo.
How well did he do at Portsmouth? - I know he was a first-choice selection in midfield. We don't yet know how that developed his confidence, skills and strength for the forthcoming season ... I guess McGinge will be looking at that right now.
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Best I'm hoping for from Hogg is that he can be a limited, but effective, defensive midfield player. Might be useful in some games, or off the bench. Which is fine, but he's not a midfield starter.
What our strongest X1 today shows is that we're badly lacking that midfield general and wide players, in the main.
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Hogg's best trait (aside from being a dogged tackler) is long range shooting.
If he could suprise us and breakthough, he would be fairly popular for that in the way Hitzlspeeder was.
But I just can't see it. Gardner, Herd, Bannan, Delph, Clark etc are all much better players and will leave him behind.
He'll be a good lower prem/championship player.
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
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Personally, I'd put Bannan behind Delph right now.
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Personally, I'd put Bannan behind Delph right now.
I assume you mean behind in ranking not position and you are probably right. We haven't seen enough of Delph yet though but from what little we have seen he appears the complete article. We could have places for both but they need a 'heavy' alongside them in style and experience.
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Going on current squad;
Given
Young Dunne Clark Warnock
Makoun Petrov
Alby Delph Ireland
Bent
I agreed about Hogg & Herd - Mr & Mrs average. Wont make it IMO
Yes, thats probably about right at the mo. I'd say.
Better though would be if we sign a real good combative midfielder, play 4-4-2 and ship out Petrov and either Delph, Makoun or Ireland for Gabby.
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Personally, I'd put Bannan behind Delph right now.
I assume you mean behind in ranking not position and you are probably right. We haven't seen enough of Delph yet though but from what little we have seen he appears the complete article. We could have places for both but they need a 'heavy' alongside them in style and experience.
Thats seems to be the obvious and key piece we are missing from the squad. Whether we play 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we need an enforcer to bully opponents into submission to compliment the many ball players we have in Delph, Bannan, Makoun etc
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Personally, I'd put Bannan behind Delph right now.
I assume you mean behind in ranking not position and you are probably right. We haven't seen enough of Delph yet though but from what little we have seen he appears the complete article. We could have places for both but they need a 'heavy' alongside them in style and experience.
Thats seems to be the obvious and key piece we are missing from the squad. Whether we play 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we need an enforcer to bully opponents into submission to compliment the many ball players we have in Delph, Bannan, Makoun etc
That's the word - an enforcer!
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
Huzzah! Someone else who rates Hogg! Think it's only us two SV.
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I like Hogg, I just think his path to our midfield will be congested with better players.
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I like Hogg, I just think his path to our midfield will be congested with better players.
We're a bit short of defensive midfielders though Maz.
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
Huzzah! Someone else who rates Hogg! Think it's only us two SV.
Count me in too.
In my opinion there will be at least one of the less heralded youth players who appeared last year who will push on again and make themselves serious players, and if I were to pick one it would be Hogg.
I remember Graig Cardner looking absolutely hopeless when he first appeared in the team, yet as it stands he and a certain centre half are the best products of our academy in the last 10 years.
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Personally, I'd put Bannan behind Delph right now.
I assume you mean behind in ranking not position and you are probably right. We haven't seen enough of Delph yet though but from what little we have seen he appears the complete article. We could have places for both but they need a 'heavy' alongside them in style and experience.
Thats seems to be the obvious and key piece we are missing from the squad. Whether we play 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we need an enforcer to bully opponents into submission to compliment the many ball players we have in Delph, Bannan, Makoun etc
That's the word - an enforcer!
Robbie Savage ?
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
Huzzah! Someone else who rates Hogg! Think it's only us two SV.
Make that three. I think Hogg is a really good player and hope he gets a fair crack at the whip this season, his tackling and short passing puts him on a par with Petrov for me. Tends to keep a cool head and likes to spread the play. Don't think he had a single bad game for us last season, really impressed.
I'm actually quite confident about the new season. I think the squad we have is easily good enough to hold our own in the league and if it means another transitional season with all the kids coming through, so be it. I like the idea of 14 key players, plus some back up and youth. Think we could even be a 'surprise package'.
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-----------------Given
L young, Collins, Dunne. Warnock
----------Makoun, Delph------------
Albrighton, Nzogbia, Ireland
---------------Bent-----------
Bannan, Clark, Petrov, Lichaj, Gabby, Hogg (Beye and Heskey not worth having in squad imo)
To be honest, Id worry about that team.
-
Given
L Young
Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Albrighton
Makoun
Petrov
Ireland
Bannan
Bent
I'd look to bring in a winger over Bannan, but what we have is what I've listed.
-
Hogg is toss.
-
Given
Young
Warnock
Dunne
Collins
Petrov
Makoun
Ireland
Albrighton
Agbonlahor
Bent
Subs
Guzan
Delfoneuso
Bannan
Delph
Heskey
Beye
Clark
Bench is poor. Championship standard at the moment. Only Clark is not.
-
Given
Young Collins Dunne Warnock
Makoun
Albrighton Delph Agbonlahor
Bannan
Bent
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
Huzzah! Someone else who rates Hogg! Think it's only us two SV.
*Raises Hand*
I like him too. Doesn't do anything special but he does a lot of simple stuff very well. He's got a bit of toughness about him and passes fairly sensibly. He could actually be a decent enough player as a water carrier.
-
All the teams I have seen on here look lower mid table
-
All the teams I have seen on here look lower mid table
I get the same feeling, if not worse. Wayne Routledge on the bench.
-
All the teams I have seen on here look lower mid table
I think there are a few too many unanswered questions to know either way for sure:-
How will AM be able to shape the defence?
A lot depends on Dunne and Collins recapturing their 09/10 form. A lot of players were poorer under Houllier then we had previously seen, yet these two seem singled out for criticism, which may be to do with the lack of discipline. He does now how to organise a defence, so it's one area I'm hopeful in, even if I am concerned with the lack of a good DCM infront of them.
Will N'Zogbia join?
I think so. And if he doesn't I do think the funds will be there for someone else, who'll hopefully be as good.
Will Ireland stop being a mental?
Who knows? He's a good player if so and in Ash's position should shine. This is actually not my biggest concern as if he's still howling at the moon, then I have every confidence in Delph, plus we could make him unnecessary by going 442.
How good are the kids?
Probably our biggest question mark as it's mainly guess work. I think we can be confident about Clark, Albrighton and Delph, and I'm also a big Bannan fan, but beyond that it's a lot of unknowns. Although mainly squad players, injuries will happen and rotation should, so if they do turn out to not be as good as we'd hoped.
So, to answer if short form:-
How will AM be able to shape the defence? - Well, I think.
Will N'Zogbia join? - Yes.
Will Ireland stop being a mental? - Unknown, but not vital.
How good are the kids? - Unknown, but vital.
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
Huzzah! Someone else who rates Hogg! Think it's only us two SV.
*Raises Hand*
I like him too. Doesn't do anything special but he does a lot of simple stuff very well. He's got a bit of toughness about him and passes fairly sensibly. He could actually be a decent enough player as a water carrier.
I'm with you SV. £8.5m and £50k a week for Coker was disgusting. Hogg can do what he does and can pass.
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
Huzzah! Someone else who rates Hogg! Think it's only us two SV.
*Raises Hand*
I like him too. Doesn't do anything special but he does a lot of simple stuff very well. He's got a bit of toughness about him and passes fairly sensibly. He could actually be a decent enough player as a water carrier.
I'm with you SV. £8.5m and £50k a week for Coker was disgusting. Hogg can do what he does and can pass.
I think hogg will be great one day, I hope he pushes on this season, I built me pes team around him this year lol
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Hogg isn't actually that young though, so he needs to improve quick.
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
He was seriously out of his depth at home to Spurs and should've been sent off before half time so I struggled to see that really.
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Hogg isn't actually that young though, so he needs to improve quick.
None of the so called youngsters who stepped into the breach last year are that young. In the normal course of events, if emerging players are not getting significant number of games by the age of 20 the chances are they will not be upper table PL standard.
They are almost the same age now as Gary Shaw was when his career effectively ended.
The caveat on this is that they have not played that often because of a certain manager's insistence on picking the same 11 every week, as opposed to lack of ability.
They all seem to have good temperament, how often last year did we say that it was the experienced players that let us down after games such as ManU at home etc.
I like Hogg too, and Herd did well when he played. There were odd games when they didn't look that much, but you could have said the same of Ashley Young.
-
Hogg is still quite a bit older than the other's though.
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So, anyone got any fresh ideas from last night? I think it was the during the fans meeting that AM mentioned playing 4-4-2, but his first game was 4-5-1, which I prefer and hope he sticks to. Heskey was obviously a makeshift left winger, so I'm guessing that leaves a Charles N'Zogbia shaped hole in the side.
Given
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Petrov
Makoun
Albrighton
Ireland
N'Zogbia
Bent
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I refused to believe Eck is going to play 4-4-2 away from home with two strikers and two wide players. Maybe in the winnable home games like Blackburn and Wolves but I can't see him playing that at Fulham.
From the line up we saw last night, I think the majority of those will start v Fulham if fit. Certainly that is the first choice back 5 and if the central trio continue to link well in pre season, I'd expect that to be the midfield against Fulham with hopefully N'zogbia on the left instead of Heskey and maybe Gabby in for Albrighton on the right.
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We haven't currently got the players or the quality to play 4-4-2, so a hybrid 4-3-3 reverting to 4-5-1 when required seems sensible; a bit more bulk in midfield and, with our chronic lack of wingers, utilising strikers who are comfortable playing slightly wider. Got a couple of these. I'd say our first X1 right now would be this - with subs/options detailed just underneath:
Given
Guzan, Marshall
Young Dunne Collins Warnock
Lichaj, Beye Cuellar Clark Baker
Petrov Makoun
Hogg, Delph, Gardner, Herd
Ireland
Bannan
Albrighton Bent Agbonlahor
Delfouneso Weimann Heskey
-
Pretty much spot on Merv.
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Pretty much spot on Merv.
Yep. Agbonlahor is our Nzogbia.
-
Its getting that desperate that people want to make a run out for the first team is PL standard
-
We haven't currently got the players or the quality to play 4-4-2, so a hybrid 4-3-3 reverting to 4-5-1 when required seems sensible; a bit more bulk in midfield and, with our chronic lack of wingers, utilising strikers who are comfortable playing slightly wider. Got a couple of these. I'd say our first X1 right now would be this - with subs/options detailed just underneath:
Given
Guzan, Marshall
Young Dunne Collins Warnock
Lichaj, Beye Cuellar Clark Baker
Petrov Makoun
Hogg, Delph, Gardner, Herd
Ireland
Bannan
Albrighton Bent Agbonlahor
Delfouneso Weimann Heskey
Yes right any combination is lower mid table, get real
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I do think injuries(albeit hopefully minor) to Gabby and Ireland have shown how light our squad is. We desperately need to sign more than one player.
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Its getting that desperate that people want to make a run out for the first team is PL standard
Erm, what?
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
He was seriously out of his depth at home to Spurs and should've been sent off before half time so I struggled to see that really.
He was a player who you could see a real improvement in as he grew in confidence after a few games. He was also one of the few who played every week when out on loan which will not have one him any harm.
If Clarke and Albrighton are probables he's a possible.
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So, if the summer business is concluded (still hopeful we may get a nice late August surprise), where does that leave us?
.......................Given..........................
Young.....Dunne.....Collins.....Warnock
.............Makoun.....Petrov..................
Gabby/Marc.....Ireland.....N'Zogbia.....
.........................Bent..........................
My biggest concern remains Ireland - if he's got his head screwed on right and is playing well that's a team capable of a top 6 finish, IMO. Although that would be heavily dependent on injuries.
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I think Hogg is every bit as good as Reo Coker and I'm amazed that Bannan hasn't featured in these lists.
Huzzah! Someone else who rates Hogg! Think it's only us two SV.
Count me in too.
In my opinion there will be at least one of the less heralded youth players who appeared last year who will push on again and make themselves serious players, and if I were to pick one it would be Hogg.
I remember Graig Cardner looking absolutely hopeless when he first appeared in the team, yet as it stands he and a certain centre half are the best products of our academy in the last 10 years.
And me I think Hogg is one of the best young players we have got!
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What I want:
.......................Given..........................
Young.....Dunne.....Collins.....Warnock
.............Makoun.....Delph...................
Gabby.............Ireland..........N'Zogbia
.........................Bent..........................
What Big Eck will play:
.......................Given..........................
Young.....Dunne.....Collins.....Warnock
........Makoun..Ireland...Petrov............
Heskey.................................N'Zogbia
.........................Bent..........................
-
Given
Young
Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Makoun
Delph
Petrov
Ireland
N'Zogbia
Bent
Guzan
Cuellar
Clark
Bannan
Albrighton
Delfouneso
Gabby
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What I want:
.......................Given..........................
Young.....Dunne.....Collins.....Warnock
.............Makoun.....Delph...................
Gabby.............Ireland..........N'Zogbia
.........................Bent..........................
What Big Eck will play:
.......................Given..........................
Young.....Dunne.....Collins.....Warnock
........Makoun..Ireland...Petrov............
Heskey.................................N'Zogbia
.........................Bent..........................
Maybe although he does seem to like Gabby and his pace. Delph may supplant Petrov as the season progresses.
The critical bit for me is simply the vulnerability of the squad to a rash of injuries - we do not yet have the quality in depth unless the kids really have pushed on. To repeat what others have said: time for the wannabe's to step up to the plate or give way in the squad to others.
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What I want:
.......................Given..........................
Young.....Dunne.....Collins.....Warnock
.............Makoun.....Delph...................
Gabby.............Ireland..........N'Zogbia
.........................Bent..........................
What Big Eck will play:
.......................Given..........................
Young.....Dunne.....Collins.....Warnock
........Makoun..Ireland...Petrov............
Heskey.................................N'Zogbia
.........................Bent..........................
I think he'll play the team that you want apart from replacing Delph with Petrov
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I think he'll go....
Given
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Makoun
Petrov
Ireland
Albrighton
Bent
N'Zogbia
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it hope its
Given
Young
Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Nzogbia
Petrov
Ireland
Allbrighton
Bent
Agbonlahor
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I think he'll go....
Given
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Makoun
Petrov
Ireland
Albrighton
Bent
N'Zogbia
That's the team I think I'd play.
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I think he'll go....
Given
Young
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Makoun
Petrov
Ireland
Albrighton
Bent
N'Zogbia
That's the team I think I'd play.
Yep, sod all this 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 lets start our own 5-5
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it hope its
Given
Young
Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Nzogbia
Petrov
Ireland
Allbrighton
Bent
Agbonlahor
You're not worried at all that it would be absolutely mental and not work?
Why not just say that we should play Gabby, Bent, Heskey, Delfouneso and Weimann with Ireland, N'Zogbia and Albrighton off them.
Maybe get Given to just play rush goalie as well?
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it hope its
Given
Young
Collins
Dunne
Warnock
Nzogbia
Petrov
Ireland
Allbrighton
Bent
Agbonlahor
That team would be so vulnerable!
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.......................Given..........................
Young.....Clark.....Collins.....Warnock
.............::::::::::Makoun........................
Albrighton...........Delph..........N'Zogbia
.........................Bent............Agbonlahor (Heskey)
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Having looked at all the combinations in previous posts, I am really worried we are two or three key injuries away from having a real crisis. The squad is clearly too thin and over reliant on home grown youngsters, none of whom I am convinced have long term PL futures. Some of them will need to play 30 PL games this season.
We are just about ok at the back but are lightweight and lack bite in the middle and up front, we are almost completely reliant on Bent.
It's not looking too healthy to me and a Fulham team that will have played 6 competitive games is not the start I'd have chosen.
Sorry, feeling a bit gloomy about it all at the moment.
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I agree. It could work. But it's a big risk.
We may well be under cooked for the fulham game given their headstart in terms of competitive games.
And given the season starts in 2 weeks it's a bit of a worry that n'zogbia seems to have only just got back from holiday. Can we really expect him to be match fit in a fortnight? We could be talking petrov and makoun holding, with albrighton, Ireland and gabby supporting bent, with massive question marks about the form of all 3.
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What will happen when Bent picks up his first 'groin strain' then the problems will come to light.
I would love to see 3 midfield players contributing with at least 10 goals apiece but I can't see it happening.
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After watching yesterday's game I am convinced that Ireland will not get enough ball playing in the hole. He needs to be played on the left of a central three so he can pick up the ball from deep and run with it. He was being bypassed by long balls and mids playing it down the channels straight up to the front man or out to the wing. He needs a lot of ball to be confident and take the game on and he needs it to be provided to him.
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In a word "worried"
Too slow at the back too lightweight in midfield and nothing up front without Bent
-
the back line has the turning circle of the Titanic as was shown yesterday, not mobile enough and do not have the nous to prevent being caught out .
We rely a great deal on last ditch defending, Ok when it works but potentially fatal especially, against the more fluid teams.
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I did'nt watch the first game against Blackburn but apparantley the defence was very good, but it did look a bit shoddy at times yesterday. Hopefully it was a one off.
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In a word "worried"
Too slow at the back too lightweight in midfield and nothing up front without Bent
thats the way I feel too. Midfield in particular worries me. Petrov, Bannan, Ireland, Makoun wouldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bad and its likely we will have a combination of three of them in the first X1. Cant see any protection for our defence there either. Cant see both Young and Warnock lasting the season at full back and our cover is non existent.
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...................Given....................
Young....Dunne^..Collins^..Warnock
........Makoun...^Ireland.^..Petrov............
Heskey.........>^>>>>>^....................N'Zogbia
..................^......Bent..........................
> - Routes opposition will drive bus through.
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I would feel more comfortable if NRC was still at the club. Midfield really looks a bit lighteight and we have lost some of the pace we were renowned for.
We really need a big season from all of Given, N'Zogbia, Makoun, Collins and Bent.
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Judging from the chelsea game it looks like HOOF! on a budget with aimless humps forward from the likes of Dunne which means we're contantly on the defensive as it just comes straight back when we lose posession. Difference before under MON is we have some offensive threat and someone in midfield who could win the ball. Hope i'm wrong but its not looking good.
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I hope our team is:
------------------------------------Given-------------------------------
LYoung---------------Collins-------------New CB----------New LB
------------------------New CM-----------Makoun--------------------
------------------------Bannan/Delph/Ireland------------------------
Albrighton---------------------Bent-------------------------N'Zogbia
I'm not holding out much of that hope.
And even with that team there are question marks over Albrighton whose form has nosedived and Collins.
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I'd probably welcome Barton at the moment given the powder puff texture of our midfield. Ireland and Barton in the same midfield - never thought i'd suggest that
-
I
I hope our team is:
------------------------------------Given-------------------------------
LYoung---------------Collins-------------New CB----------New LB
------------------------New CM-----------Makoun--------------------
------------------------Bannan/Delph/Ireland------------------------
Albrighton---------------------Bent-------------------------N'Zogbia
I'm not holding out much of that hope.
And even with that team there are question marks over Albrighton whose form has nosedived and Collins.
I think we should be allowed to play Bannan, Delph and Ireland as one player, considering how light weight our midfield is.
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I am puzzled as to why we play a right footed Dunne on the left. He is cumbersome at best of times having to twist to clear balls from his left at times looks embarrassing. Surely a left footed Clark would be better suited to that position.
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Is Collins right or left footed?
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He's right. It would certainly be odd to play a lefty on the right and vice versa!
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Please no Petrov in the side!!!
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I'd probably welcome Barton at the moment given the powder puff texture of our midfield. Ireland and Barton in the same midfield - never thought i'd suggest that
I used to be dead against Barton coming to the club but I have to say it's sounding like a good move to me now.
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I'd probably welcome Barton at the moment given the powder puff texture of our midfield. Ireland and Barton in the same midfield - never thought i'd suggest that
I used to be dead against Barton coming to the club but I have to say it's sounding like a good move to me now.
yep. we need someone in there with a bit of bite. Can't believe AM can't see it or that he's not knocking on Lerner's door demanding the dosh for it. I realise money is tight but there comes a time when it could cost us more money not buying a player than biting the bullet and investing
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Barton, despite being a tit, is probably exactly what we could use in midfield. He can read play well, break up attacks and whatnot, but he can also pass well, get forward and score goals.
But he is a tit.
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Judging from the chelsea game it looks like HOOF! on a budget with aimless humps forward from the likes of Dunne which means we're contantly on the defensive as it just comes straight back when we lose posession. Difference before under MON is we have some offensive threat and someone in midfield who could win the ball. Hope i'm wrong but its not looking good.
Well, if you judge it based on one game of our pre-season, against the toughest opposition we will play all year, then I can see you point.
If you look at it over the three games though, you'll see a different picture. We've defended well, Bent's scored goals and we've passed it around quite nicely, but we were found out against truely top notch opponents. What that suggests to me is an upper midtable side.
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I agree upto a point. Anyone who decides we're going to have a good/bad/indifferent season basedon friendly games is likely to be disappointed/surprised. The worrying thing for me was the defence in the chelsea game were doing the same things that caused us problems all last season and presumably they were fit then.
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I didn't actually see the game Saturday, so maybe not in the best position to comment, but what struck me was that AM made quite a few changes, except to the defence. I can understand why, as he wants to get them working as a unit, but in those conditions, and during pre-season, they must have been knackered during that 2nd game, which was against the much tougher of the opposition. So I'll give some allowance as to how they played in consideration of that.
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It'll be interesting to see the defence in action in the league, actually. For a set of players who were amongst the meanest defences in the league to become one of the most porous in the space of a season is quite bewildering, looking back on it. I suppose we'll find out if they really have turned to crap, or if the methods employed by Houllier's regime simply buggered it up.
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So, now that the summer dealings are all done, how do people think we'll line up? I'd like to see in a 4-2-3-1:-
Given
Hutton - Dunne - Collins - Warnock
Petrov - Delph
N'Zogbia - Bannan - Gabby
Bent
Subs; Guzan, Clark, Baker, Jenas, Ireland, Albrighton and Heskey.
Cuellar to take Baker's place on the bench once fit and Jenbas to come on for Petrov if/when he tires.
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I feel sure that Jenas will start, which is fine by me. I also think he allows us to play a 4-4-2 more comfortably too, if we choose.
So;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
or;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Jenas Petrov N'Zogbia
Bent Agbonlahor
Not teams to trouble the top six, probably, but solid enough and potentially with goals in 'em.
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So, now that the summer dealings are all done, how do people think we'll line up? I'd like to see in a 4-2-3-1:-
Given
Hutton - Dunne - Collins - Warnock
Petrov - Delph
N'Zogbia - Bannan - Gabby
Bent
Subs; Guzan, Clark, Baker, Jenas, Ireland, Albrighton and Heskey.
Cuellar to take Baker's place on the bench once fit and Jenbas to come on for Petrov if/when he tires.
As much as I rate him, I'd bring Jenas in for Delph in that side.
And I think it could be a handy side.
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Apologies John, I just started a thread asking the same. I'll add my two pence worth here and we can carry on as normal (can the other thread be locked?)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So now we know our squad up until January how do people want us to line up and where do you think we'll finish?
---------------------Given----------------------
Hutton-----Collins-------Dunne---Warnock-
-------------Petrov-------Delph---------------
---Nzogbia-------Bannan------Gabby--------
--------------------Bent------------------------
Subs: Guzan, Albrighton, Jenas, Clark, Heskey, Fonz
Ultimately two of Jenas, Delph and Petrov should be picked based on form and fitness.
I would send Gardner out on loan with the option to bring him back with immediate notice.
If the players can find some confidence and avoid injuries then I think we should get 7-10 with that squad.
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I feel sure that Jenas will start, which is fine by me. I also think he allows us to play a 4-4-2 more comfortably too, if we choose.
So;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
or;
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Albrighton Jenas Petrov N'Zogbia
Bent Agbonlahor
Not teams to trouble the top six, probably, but solid enough and potentially with goals in 'em.
Agreed.
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Apologies John, I just started a thread asking the same. I'll add my two pence worth here and we can carry on as normal (can the other thread be locked?)
No worries mate - if I had seen yours first I wouldn't have dragged the old one up. And I see we've picked the same side and formation aswell. However, I do think that CitizeN'Zogbia's side is more likely with AM in charge:-
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Petrov Delph
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Bent
-
At home:
---------------------Given-----------------------
---Hutton---Dunne---Collins---Warnock---
---------------Petrov---Delph------------------
---Agbonlahor---Bannan---N'Zogbia--------
----------------------Bent-------------------------
Guzan, Clark, Herd/Cuellar, Ireland, Jenas, Albrighton, Heskey
Away:
Same Back 5
---Albrighton---Petrov---Jenas---Delph---N'Zogbia---
--------------------------Bent---------------------------------
Guzan, Clark, Herd/Cuellar, Agbonlahor, Ireland, Bannan, Heskey
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The more I think about it, the more CitizeN'Zogbia's side make sense to me.
With a midfield three of Jenas, Petrov and Delph we'd be pretty solid with one sitter and two box to box players, who will also get back and (at least try to) tackle. And also both are decent passers and can score goals. It would aid Petrov as it would allow him to just sit and use his experience to read the game and make interceptions, thereby conserving his energy. Bannan and Ireland could slot into the Delph/Jenas roles and I suppose it's Clark as cover for Petrov.
It would also be more of a genuine 4-3-3 and Albrighton could come in for either wide player as needed or for Bent with Gabby then going central. Plus Heskey is there as that 'different' option.
Both fullbacks like to get forward aswell, so alongside what seems to be a back in form Collins and Dunne we'd have a good defence, mainly down to the way AM will drill them.
Looks a balanced side with some exciting players to me!
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John, I assume you mean Petrov as the "sitter", but he seems to be getting forward more now than he has done in a few seasons.
-
Given
Young Collins Dunne Warnock
Petrov
Delph Jenas
Agbonlahor..............NZogbia
Bent
-
What no Beye?
-
I think it should be
Bannan - Delph - Jenas
as our midfield fulcrum, ditching petrov.
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Formation and alternatives in brackets.
Plenty of room for flexibility. i.e, Albright and N'Zogbia wide, playing three out and out strikers etc.
Given
(Guzan)
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
(Beye) (Cuellar) (Clark) (Lichaj)
Jenas Bannan Delph
(Herd) (Petrov) (Gardner)
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
(Albrighton) (Ireland)
Bent
(Delfouneso, Heskey)
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Would people be against sending Gardner on loan?
I think at this stage in his career he needs regular games and looking at these formations he is probably 2 or 3 injuries away from that at Villa often not making the bench.
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I would be against it at the moment because the numbers we have and I dont think it will be long before he breaks through anyway.
I understand the benefit of loans but in his case, he's really going to come through and take to it naturally anyway in my opinion so in his particular case I'd say there was little value in it.
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I would be against it at the moment because the numbers we have and I dont think it will be long before he breaks through anyway.
I understand the benefit of loans but in his case, he's really going to come through and take to it naturally anyway in my opinion so in his particular case I'd say there was little value in it.
I think a loan would be beneficial. Unless we have a bad run of injuries again, he's not even going to get in the squad at the moment, so I'd send him to somewhere like Derby who play decent football, and look like having a decent season so he gets a taste of being in a winning side. A spell on loan stood the likes of Gary Cahill and Bannan in good stead.
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I'd send him out. A few months in the Championship would be better for him than playing for our reserves and right now you'd have Petrov, Delph, Bannan, Jenas and Ireland ahead of him, so quite unlikely to play.
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Well it would have to be short term and/or with a recall option.
Because as things stand he's fourth or fifth choice central midfielder which sounds a way down but isn't really at all. And each injury or lack of form or fitness or suspension moves him one up the list.
Hopefully we can still go and get somebody like Mahamadou Diarra soon in which case the pressures off a bit and we can loan him out.
Personally, the sooner Gardner is playing in the first team, the better.
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Well it would have to be short term and/or with a recall option.
Because as things stand he's fourth or fifth choice central midfielder which sounds a way down but isn't really at all. And each injury or lack of form or fitness or suspension moves him one up the list.
He hasn't played a single minute of first team football, so how he'd be 4th choice central midfielder is beyond me. Petrov, Delph, Jenas, Bannan and Ireland will all be picked ahead of him, and that's without considering Herd and Clark as well. He hasn't even been in a match day squad yet has he?
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I like the thought of Petrov, Jenas and Delph in the middle. Also, Delph and Petrov will need resting at various points this season for different reasons and we can genuinely do this now with Jenas, play one of Petrov/Delph with Jenas and Bannan or Ireland further up. Well hopefully that will be the case and not Heskey as the front of a middle 3. Heskey can be back up for Bent/Gabby, N'Zog and Bannan back up for Gabby/N'Zog too. Albrighton and Delfouneso need to buck their ideas up to be any more than fringe players for the rest of the season. I still don't see much game time for Ireland either, injuries aside.
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Well it would have to be short term and/or with a recall option.
Because as things stand he's fourth or fifth choice central midfielder which sounds a way down but isn't really at all. And each injury or lack of form or fitness or suspension moves him one up the list.
He hasn't played a single minute of first team football, so how he'd be 4th choice central midfielder is beyond me. Petrov, Delph, Jenas, Bannan and Ireland will all be picked ahead of him, and that's without considering Herd and Clark as well. He hasn't even been in a match day squad yet has he?
I dont consider Bannan and Ireland as the same position. Gardner to my mind would be in the same pool as Petrov, Jenas, Delph and Herd with Ireland and Bannan as more specialist positions. What I would call the third midfielder in our current system.
You could play Gardner as one of two central midfielders whereas I wouldn't advise that with Bannan or Ireland.
Therefore, as things stand, he's 4th or 5th choice.
No, he hasn't played senior league football yet but I dont see what that's got to do with it at the moment.
He's considered the brightest young talent at the club and due to our paucity of numbers will have to figure at some point. I'd say it's in our interest to get him involved soon too. I think he's pretty much ready for it.
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I think at a push you can now play Bannan as one of a central 2 with Jenas. You couldn't with Petrov as his legs are going and you couldn't with Delph as they are both left footed and inexperienced. But ideally Bannan or Ireland should play in front of a solid 2. I just hope Mcleish does this now, but fear it will be Jenas or Heskey in this role and our creativity problems will persist. I think with Herd still about too and a new right back Gardner cab be loaned out comfortably.
-
John, I assume you mean Petrov as the "sitter", but he seems to be getting forward more now than he has done in a few seasons.
He said in the Mail he was enjoying having the licence to get further forward under AM.
-
If he plays a three in central midfield,one has to be Bannan or Ireland. Were really lacking any kind of guile,Bent would benefit as well. Hopefully its wee Bannan,as the more games he gets,the more he'll improve.
-
------------------------------------Given---------------------------------
Hutton--------------Dunne----------------Collins-----------Warnock
-----------Petrov----------------Delph--------------Bannan------------
------------Gabby-----------------Bent--------------N'Zogbia-----------
-
This, for me:
Seamus Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Jenas Delph
Agbonlahor Bannan N'Zogbia
Bent
Subs: Guzan, Clark, Cuellar, Petrov, Ireland, Albrighton, Delfouneso
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I think at a push you can now play Bannan as one of a central 2 with Jenas. You couldn't with Petrov as his legs are going and you couldn't with Delph as they are both left footed and inexperienced. But ideally Bannan or Ireland should play in front of a solid 2. I just hope Mcleish does this now, but fear it will be Jenas or Heskey in this role and our creativity problems will persist. I think with Herd still about too and a new right back Gardner cab be loaned out comfortably.
I don't think you can play Bannon and Jenas as the central two, they are to lightweight together. I think Petrov, like him or not has found his boots this season so far and deserves his place. He was found wanting last season, as it was evident Milner had carried him the season before, but think he is proving his worth at the moment.
-
Given
Hutton Collins Dunne Warnock
Clarke
Jenas Delph
N'Zogbia Gabby
Bent
I believe Clarke is good enough to adapt to the holding midfield roll. This would allow both Jenas and Delph to go box to box, and make late runs into the box (Platty Style) we have lacked this threat for too long. The emphasis has always been on the strikers to score.
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Let's not forget Edna in January he could be a great buy!