Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on June 22, 2011, 10:52:22 AM
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How much do you reckon?
I'll say £25m, £15m of which we'll recoup from Ashley's sale.
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I heard £35m. Cant remeber where i heard it but i definately did.
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15m from Young + other sales + 6m on top. roughly 25m
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i think £25m - £30. cant see it being more than that. (thats including funds generated from player sales)
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I reckon Dowing and Ashley will go and we'll break even.
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How much do you reckon?
I'll say £25m, £15m of which we'll recoup from Ashley's sale.
I'll go with that
cant see RL putting much more in
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McLeish said the other day he's not sure he'll get all the Young money. I'd totally gestimate whatever we generate from selling players, plus £15-£20m this summer.
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£15m from Young and an extra £20 million from his pocket to back McLeish so £35 million. I also think Downing will stay.
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£15m from Young and an extra £20 million from his pocket to back McLeish so £35 million. I also think Downing will stay.
I'd go along with £20m plus sales.
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£15m from Young and an extra £20 million from his pocket to back McLeish so £35 million. I also think Downing will stay.
I have a feeling Downing is off and if villa were tempted by a £20m offer, they would accept it.
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£15m from Young and an extra £20 million from his pocket to back McLeish so £35 million. I also think Downing will stay.
This for me, even if Downing was to go replace straight away with N'zogbia
Its not transfers thats the trouble, its the wage bill
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£15m from Young and an extra £20 million from his pocket to back McLeish so £35 million. I also think Downing will stay.
This for me, even if Downing was to go replace straight away with N'zogbia
Its not transfers thats the trouble, its the wage bill
We have to be looking a better than N'zogbia (see some of the names on the transfer speculation thread), he's OK, but there is a reason why he was at Newcastle and now Wigan.
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I didn't think we'd find £18m+ for Darren Bent and I didn't think we'd appoint Alex McLeish as manager so it could be anywhere from -£30M to +£30m.
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Depends on sales plus whatever sponsorship deal is on the table, but I think it will be a fair whack.
£20m plus sales is reasonable.
As I said before, if they dont back McLeish with a sizeable budget he will struggle.
The fans might tolerate him in time but not if he's scratching around the market too.
It would be too much negativity.
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£15m from Young and an extra £20 million from his pocket to back McLeish so £35 million. I also think Downing will stay.
This for me, even if Downing was to go replace straight away with N'zogbia
Its not transfers thats the trouble, its the wage bill
We have to be looking a better than N'zogbia (see some of the names on the transfer speculation thread), he's OK, but there is a reason why he was at Newcastle and now Wigan.
I think he's a good player, left because the manager didn't know his name. Didn't alot say Downing wasn't the player we should be looking for. He's a good creative player
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Ten million plus what we generate in sales.
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£15m from Young and an extra £20 million from his pocket to back McLeish so £35 million. I also think Downing will stay.
This for me, even if Downing was to go replace straight away with N'zogbia
Its not transfers thats the trouble, its the wage bill
We have to be looking a better than N'zogbia (see some of the names on the transfer speculation thread), he's OK, but there is a reason why he was at Newcastle and now Wigan.
I think he's a good player, left because the manager didn't know his name. Didn't alot say Downing wasn't the player we should be looking for. He's a good creative player
I think Nzogbia has improved alot since his time at Newcastle. Sometimes players have to take a backward step to then move forward. Moving to Villa could be his forward step to bigger and better things.
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15m from Young + other sales + 6m on top. roughly 25m
If Downing goes that will be another 15m coming in right there.
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15m from Young + other sales + 6m on top. roughly 25m
If Downing goes that will be another 15m coming in right there.
If we sell him for £15m then we want shooting given prices being paid elsewhere.
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Depends on sales plus whatever sponsorship deal is on the table, but I think it will be a fair whack.
£20m plus sales is reasonable.
As I said before, if they dont back McLeish with a sizeable budget he will struggle.
The fans might tolerate him in time but not if he's scratching around the market too.
It would be too much negativity.
I hope this is the case. It makes complete sense, very logical but logical seems to have gone out the window of late. Fingers crossed...
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15m from Young + other sales + 6m on top. roughly 25m
If Downing goes that will be another 15m coming in right there.
If we sell him for £15m then we want shooting given prices being paid elsewhere.
That's true.
I don't want him to go anyway.
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Depends on sales plus whatever sponsorship deal is on the table, but I think it will be a fair whack.
£20m plus sales is reasonable.
As I said before, if they dont back McLeish with a sizeable budget he will struggle.
The fans might tolerate him in time but not if he's scratching around the market too.
It would be too much negativity.
I hope this is the case. It makes complete sense, very logical but logical seems to have gone out the window of late. Fingers crossed...
I hope its true aswell considering what the general said about how would mcleish do with an owener that backed him! Lets see if its true.
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15m from Young + other sales + 6m on top. roughly 25m
If Downing goes that will be another 15m coming in right there.
If we sell him for £15m then we want shooting given prices being paid elsewhere.
I wouldn't back against it with this unpredictable board.
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i'd take 25m for Downing if anyone was barmy enough to offer that. Give us 50m to buy 6-7, 6-8m players and totally rebuild the squad. Lovely jubbly. Only problem is the ginga ninja is the man spending it!
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I can't see Randy taking a gamble as big as this and not backing him, getting fans back in his side (for the record i still have complete faith in him) he will need to do it by spending money. Lets hope Mcleish can attract some good players. Attracting Pleb and Foster to the likes of Small Heath is no mean feat
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It's all about the quality that he uses the money. At the Sty, he spent £8m on two centre backs that are now coveted by other clubs. If he can repeat this with his first couple of signings, I'd be pretty happy, and he'd still have a sizeable amount from the AY plus other sales for a DMF and a winger.
But the key - first and foremost - is to get a decent keeper. This could cost him £5-8m off the top.
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27 million
Keeper, Adam, N'Zogbia, couple of freebies. Maybe a loan.
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15m from Young + other sales + 6m on top. roughly 25m
If Downing goes that will be another 15m coming in right there.
If we sell him for £15m then we want shooting given prices being paid elsewhere.
That's true.
I don't want him to go anyway.
Downing will be 27 when the season starts. Anything over £18m and snap their hands off.
Budget (not including Downing money): £35m
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the transfer market will be slow to get going again this summer because Liverpool have fucked things by paying £20m for Henderson. It now sets the bar for every other transfer deal and essentially inflates the value of every player. Spurs paid around 8m for a world renowned player like VDV last summer, Henderson is worth £20m this summer. Clubs will be trying flog any old shoe for more than market value which brings the entire market, especially the domestic market to a grinding halt. For us, if we are selling him, it makes Downing at a minimum £20m and probably more.
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So if I was Big Eck this is what Id do:-
Goalkeepers
I have seen MCgregor and he is a very good keeper much better than Green or Foster. Be expensive but key position - 10m
Sell Guzan for 500K
So net spend 9.5m
Defenders
Sell Cuellar Sell Dunne - 7m Sell Beye 500K
Buy Roger Johnson - 7m and another Utility Defender
Get Bertrand on loan from Chelsea for a season
Get a right back - Walker wont come [shame]
Net Spend say 7-8m
Midfield
Sell Young 15m Sell Downing 20m Sell Petrov 2m
Buy NZogbia -8m Adam - 10m Tarrabt -8m Resign NRC
Give Ireland another shot
Net Save 11m
Attack
Sell Heskey
Loan - Sturridge from Chelsea
So should be a break even situation
Starting X1 [4-3-3 or 4-5-1]
McGregor
RB or L.Young
Bertrand
Johnson and Collins[Clark]
2 of NRC/ Delph/Makoun [Holding]
Adam
NZogbia or Taraabt
Bent
Sturridge
Subs - Marshall Gabby Albrighton Clark Tarrabt Makoun Ireland
Squad - Fonz, Bannan, RB Cover, Baker, Hogg etc
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AM said at the press conference that he's unsure that he'll get ALL the Young money to re-invest. Which means that the budget will probably be only about £15M. So much for backing the new Manager. He'll have to wheel and deal at the 2nd / 3rd tier level for players. No chance of getting back in the top-six with that sort of strategy. All this talk of £30M is wide of the mark - as AM stated: ''there's no pot of gold''
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AM said at the press conference that he's unsure that he'll get ALL the Young money to re-invest. Which means that the budget will probably be only about £15M. So much for backing the new Manager. He'll have to wheel and deal at the 2nd / 3rd tier level for players. No chance of getting back in the top-six with that sort of strategy. All this talk of £30M is wide of the mark - as AM stated: ''there's no pot of gold''
when did he say that? He didn't talk specifically about finances and certainly not about spending any percentage of the money from a deal that was not 100% done. He alluded to the fact that they would have to responsible and mentioned FFP a couple of times.
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AM said at the press conference that he's unsure that he'll get ALL the Young money to re-invest. Which means that the budget will probably be only about £15M. So much for backing the new Manager. He'll have to wheel and deal at the 2nd / 3rd tier level for players. No chance of getting back in the top-six with that sort of strategy. All this talk of £30M is wide of the mark - as AM stated: ''there's no pot of gold''
when did he say that? He didn't talk specifically about finances and certainly not about spending any percentage of the money from a deal that was not 100% done. He alluded to the fact that they would have to responsible and mentioned FFP a couple of times.
He was quoted in last night's B'ham Mail - I'm just re-iterating what he said.
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I'm amazed, or maybe not that its rumoured Young is going for just 15ML, the fact that there could be a player swap involved thus reducing that further, would just go to show Man U aren't exactly chomping at the bit to get him, in that case Ash needs to look at that, maybe he would be much better of staying where he is and playing week in week out instead of warming a bench.
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I'm amazed, or maybe not that its rumoured Young is going for just 15ML, the fact that there could be a player swap involved thus reducing that further, would just go to show Man U aren't exactly chomping at the bit to get him, in that case Ash needs to look at that, maybe he would be much better of staying where he is and playing week in week out instead of warming a bench.
I hope he does spend most of his time warming the bench to prove that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
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I'm amazed, or maybe not that its rumoured Young is going for just 15ML, the fact that there could be a player swap involved thus reducing that further, would just go to show Man U aren't exactly chomping at the bit to get him, in that case Ash needs to look at that, maybe he would be much better of staying where he is and playing week in week out instead of warming a bench.
IMO he'll be a regular but if not he'll be 'Warming a bench' for over 100k a week plus bonuses.There aren't many players who say no when Manure come calling.Unfortunately that is.I'd prefer it to be straight cash as the likes of Brown and Gibson aren't the exciting signings Mcleish really needs to help his difficult start as our manager
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I still think all is not right with the AY deal, seems to have been going on for far too long
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I still think all is not right with the AY deal, seems to have been going on for far too long
AM said he's on holiday and will be sorted soon
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I still think all is not right with the AY deal, seems to have been going on for far too long
That could be a major blow to us. Don't get me wrong - I want him to stay, but only if he signs a new contract, which I can't see happening now. Having him walk for nothing in 12 months would be a disaster.
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I still think all is not right with the AY deal, seems to have been going on for far too long
That could be a major blow to us. Don't get me wrong - I want him to stay, but only if he signs a new contract, which I can't see happening now. Having him walk for nothing in 12 months would be a disaster.
Too right, because there's no additional transfer money.
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I still think all is not right with the AY deal, seems to have been going on for far too long
AM said he's on holiday and will be sorted soon
In a few days????
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I still think all is not right with the AY deal, seems to have been going on for far too long
That could be a major blow to us. Don't get me wrong - I want him to stay, but only if he signs a new contract, which I can't see happening now. Having him walk for nothing in 12 months would be a disaster.
Too right, because there's no additional transfer money.
No, beacuse any club would rather sell then have a Bosman departure 12 months later.
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I still think all is not right with the AY deal, seems to have been going on for far too long
That could be a major blow to us. Don't get me wrong - I want him to stay, but only if he signs a new contract, which I can't see happening now. Having him walk for nothing in 12 months would be a disaster.
Too right, because there's no additional transfer money.
Maybe the case, may also be the case its better to get rid now than have him walk for free.
However, I consider a good season next season is paramount, we are not blessed with the most tactically ingenious manager in the ball park, certainly when it comes to attack and for me and the sake of 15ML I would look to keep him and get the most from him, he would definitely give AM more options, and he'll need as many options as he can get his hands on.
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We could have between 20 to 25 million to spend including player sales that's what I reckon.
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£30m.
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£15-20million net so probably around £40million gross.
Even with that much we need a number of shrewd buys to expect much from next season.
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McLeish showed Lerner he had balls coming here and I fully expect him to get the appropriate backing in the transfer market.
I reckon he'll have £20m, plus whatever is raised from player sales.
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£30m.
No chance - AM has already said that he's unsure of having all the Young money - so halve your estimate!!
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£40 mill inc the Young money.
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My guess: NRC, Friedel, Young, Cuellar and possibly Downing leaving. That means five players in, tops, not to increase the wage bill. Guess we'll probably break even or spend up to £5m net.
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My guess: NRC, Friedel, Young, Cuellar and possibly Downing leaving. That means five players in, tops, not to increase the wage bill. Guess we'll probably break even or spend up to £5m net.
Agree. Last season was a bit of a con with purchases. Everyone was over the moon with the Bent signing when in all reality that was only funded with the balance of the Milner money. The only extra money spent was on Makoun at £5M and a couple of loan deals (Walker and Bradley). Ireland was funded through the Milner deal. So I expect a net spend of no more than £4-5M. Sounds remarkably like the Deadly Doug days! Lerner is gradually lowering the expectation with less quality and investment.
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I'm gonna stick my neck on the line here and say that I believe Lerner always intended to keep back the Milner money to service the club's debt (the real reason MON left?) and that he would never have sanctioned the Bent transfer had we reached, or were within reach of, the 40-point mark, come 1st Jan 2011.
He will now look to replace that money with the £15M profit from the sale of Ash, which is why AM is saying he might not get any/all the money from the sale. However Lerner will have to front up £3 to £5M for the critical position of Goalkeeper.
AM would then have to fund any additional aquisitions from sales. Expect a fair few loans and free / cheap deals coming the other way, and a net spend of minus £10M.
Of course many will say that this is impossible as Lerner would not risk increasing the negativity surround the Club, but that pre-supposes he gives a sh*t either way. Let's face it, if he was scared of negativity from the fans, he wouldn't have appointed this manager in the first place.
Of course, I could have it totally wrong in which case...Happy Days? :-\
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I agree with the more negative predictions. I'll be surprised if it's more than a few mil net spend. Those who are predicting 30-40 mil, I wish I could be that optimistic. Lerner has signalled his intent with his managerial appointment. Scraping and scrapping mediocrity is here to stay.
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It looks like he is trying to get £3m for Cuellar to add to the £2.5m he doesn't have to spend to sign Bradley to fund a £5.5m bid for a goalkeeper, probably Al Habsi. Wheeling and dealing more Del Trotter style than Harry Redknapp.
I'm afraid it appears a case of 'no reasonable offer refused'. Worrying.
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What AM and everybody has always said he is not going to tell other clubs in a public forum like that - Hi everybody I have all the Young money and more in the kitty so how much do you want for your player ...
I am sure he will back AM - Randy on any level , as a fan , as a business knows he needs to invest in players and back the new manager
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Sell-to-buy. -£5m to +£5m net spend.
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It looks like he is trying to get £3m for Cuellar to add to the £2.5m he doesn't have to spend to sign Bradley to fund a £5.5m bid for a goalkeeper, probably Al Habsi. Wheeling and dealing more Del Trotter style than Harry Redknapp.
I'm afraid it appears a case of 'no reasonable offer refused'. Worrying.
What a load of old tosh.
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Have we turned down Bradley then?
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It looks like he is trying to get £3m for Cuellar to add to the £2.5m he doesn't have to spend to sign Bradley to fund a £5.5m bid for a goalkeeper, probably Al Habsi. Wheeling and dealing more Del Trotter style than Harry Redknapp.
I'm afraid it appears a case of 'no reasonable offer refused'. Worrying.
What a load of old tosh.
Thank you for your opinion. I hope you are right!
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If we dont spend big this summer considering the number of players required in key positions then we're going to have a very tough season ahead of us. We seem to be letting players contracts expire and leaving for free or letting them walk too cheaply...a major concern when you see the transfer fees being demanded by other clubs. £30m isnt going to bring in much quality so I'm hoping AM has a budget of £40m and can manage to persuade the likes of Downing, Ireland and Warnock to stay/actually play...if not, we could be right in the shit next season.
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I'd say roughly £30 mill absolute tops, which is still a pretty substantial sum.
At a guess, I'd say it could break down like this:
Foster-------£8 million
Dann--------£9 million
Adam-------£7 million
N'Zogbia----£8 million
Plus maybe Reo Coker back on a free and a loan or two.
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I think we'll only spend what we get in income from transfers. Possibly a bit more if the wage bill is deemed under control. I think Lerner did his bankrolling in January and am pretty glad he did. I think we'll get about £25m in without Downing going and obviously quite a lot more if he does. I'd expect us to spend that on players who command lower wages. I'm still excited about possible new faces though, as I am every year.
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I'm still excited about possible new faces though, as I am every year.
Me too!
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Have we turned down Bradley then?
"ALEX McLeish is prepared to sell Carlos Cuellar to former club Rangers to free up transfer cash for Villa after also deciding against signing Michael Bradley". Birmingham Mail 23/6/11
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If that's true it's terrible because £3 million should be making that much difference to our budget.
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This thread is depressing
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This thread is depressing
Very much so. Hopefully we are well off the mark and Randy will fully back Eck.
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I think we'll spend little this summer, not because we have a sell-to-buy policy or because Randy has given up or wants to sell, but because the board expect McLeish to try to convert the likes of Beye, Warnock and Ireland into motivated footballers before they bankroll replacements.
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Let's be honest, if Randy forked out £100m it still wouldn't ensure Chumpions League football so what is the point? He could easily fork out £30m but what for? £30m to finish 7th/8th/9th? The money the club would get back in return for his investment isn't going to happen.
McLeish needs to further trim the wage bill, and get rid of the high earning under achievers like Warnock, Beye, and Heskey and then bring in some younger players and then sell them on in the next couple of years to generate funds. I'm not blaming Randy if he chooses not to spend big this summer as it isn't really worth it is it? Not Randy's fault, or particularly Villa's but football in general.
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If we just sign under 25s, potentially good players, with sell on value, with a few free transfers, then i would'nt be too disappointed with that.
How good can Albrighton, Herd, Clark, Hogg, Baker, Licjah, Delph, Delfunso, Gardener be.Might be the time to find out.
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I'd say roughly £30 mill absolute tops, which is still a pretty substantial sum.
At a guess, I'd say it could break down like this:
Foster-------£8 million
Dann--------£9 million
Adam-------£7 million
N'Zogbia----£8 million
Plus maybe Reo Coker back on a free and a loan or two.
The trouble is if there's £30m to spend that is generally counted as including transfer fee, signing on fee, agent fee, and at least some of the wages. On that basis the amounts you've said for those players above are nowhere near enough. £30m is two decent players or four average ones.
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If we just sign under 25s, potentially good players, with sell on value, with a few free transfers, then i would'nt be too disappointed with that.
How good can Albrighton, Herd, Clark, Hogg, Baker, Licjah, Delph, Delfunso, Gardener be.Might be the time to find out.
I'm with you mate, it would be nice to give all the kids a go . The thing is, we'd probably end up getting relegated, unfortunately.
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The board could raise morale at a stroke by attempting to sign Milner and N'Zogbia.
It ain't going to happen though.
Adam is lined up for Liverpool, so we can cross that one off.
I honestly don't think we'll be in for those calibre of players anyway.
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im glad we are not getting adam...
a bit of a media darling last year who wastes almost as many of those long hoofs into the corner as he completes...
at a club like liverpool or villa, it wont be the successful passes that get highlighted... it will be the wasted ones...
he is slow, crap defensively and apart from being able to take a set piece (so can marc albrighton), i really dont see the fascination...
he is the definition of the term "highlight player"...
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he is slow, crap defensively and apart from being able to take a set piece (so can marc albrighton), i really dont see the fascination...
I think he's an excellent playmaker, great vision.
The question is if he can replicate his Blackpool form playing for a team that are not as expansive as Holloway's lot.
He was caught out of position in a few games for them as he's given free rein to wander about, he won't get the same sort of freedom at Liverpool.
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I'd say roughly £30 mill absolute tops, which is still a pretty substantial sum.
At a guess, I'd say it could break down like this:
Foster-------£8 million
Dann--------£9 million
Adam-------£7 million
N'Zogbia----£8 million
Plus maybe Reo Coker back on a free and a loan or two.
Dont know where on earth you got those transfer fees from. At least 10 million out
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I thought the board would soften the blow of getting McCleish by handing him a fair amount of dough,maybe they will and suprise us all,but it seems that Randy is probably gonna cut his cloth,and we'll have to try and shift a few. The trouble is the few we wanna shift(Beye,Dunne,Heskey,Ireland) are on good wages,and arent high up on the lists of other clubs transfer targets.