Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: nigel on June 20, 2011, 09:48:53 PM

Title: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: nigel on June 20, 2011, 09:48:53 PM
Having a bit of an arguement regarding our nickname.
Could anyone tell me if it's VILLAINS or VILLANS?
I've been told it's the VILLANS and it's a 'play on words' thing.
I'm sure it's the VILLAINS though.
If by some chance it is villans, why?
Thanks
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: usav on June 20, 2011, 09:51:39 PM
It's funny how this question comes up every couple of years.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 20, 2011, 09:57:57 PM
Those of a certain age  prefer Villein.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 20, 2011, 10:10:13 PM
Lions.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: BC54 VFC on June 20, 2011, 10:12:02 PM
Villains; the title to this site says it all!
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Ghost of Pongo Waring on June 20, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
Over time it has been both so either is correct.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 20, 2011, 10:15:24 PM
The nickname is Villans - as the OP says, a play on words... I guess. Villa with 'ns' on the end. I assume this site is not named after the nickname, it's merely Villains as in the opposite of Heroes. The proper nickname is Lions though as I have never heard a Villa crowd shout "Come on you Villans!"
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: DeKuip on June 20, 2011, 10:16:09 PM
It's always been VILLANS
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Dave Clark Five on June 20, 2011, 10:24:44 PM
Occasionally it is possible to see banners with VILLIANS on them.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 20, 2011, 11:03:57 PM
My Car Reg says " V7LLN"  so I reckon it should be VILL`NS !
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 20, 2011, 11:05:57 PM
Occasionally it is possible to see banners with VILLIANS on them.

I remember been given a knock off sweat shirt with that on in the 90s.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Dazvillain on June 20, 2011, 11:43:25 PM
Well i chose the play on words approach for my name on here as with this site...Dazvillain !!!
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: not3bad on June 21, 2011, 12:30:51 AM
In Russia it might be Willans.  At least if Mr Checkov from Star Trek is saying it.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on June 21, 2011, 12:54:34 AM
100% Villans. The name of the fanzine refers to the good guys and bad guys we've had at our esteemed club.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 21, 2011, 01:14:22 AM
100% Villans. The name of the fanzine refers to the good guys and bad guys we've had at our esteemed club.

Does it?
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: KevinGage on June 21, 2011, 01:16:36 AM
Villains; the title to this site says it all!

That might be a copyright thing. Mac or Dave W will no doubt be able to confirm.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Eiresvillan on June 21, 2011, 01:22:21 AM
Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Louzie0 on June 21, 2011, 01:25:09 AM
100% Villans. The name of the fanzine refers to the good guys and bad guys we've had at our esteemed club.

Does it?

The accreditation line at the end of your Times article today has you as the Editor of the Villa fanzine 'Heroes and Villans'!  OooOooh!
Not that they know anything.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 21, 2011, 01:27:30 AM
Villains; the title to this site says it all!

That might be a copyright thing. Mac or Dave W will no doubt be able to confirm.

'Villans' was never used back in the day. I can honestly say that I'd never heard the term used except in relation to that mascot fella until a few years ago, when suddenly the press decreed that every club had to have a nickname/collective name for their supporters. We were certainly never called Villans, and neither for that matter did the other lot call themselves Bluenoses.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Stu on June 21, 2011, 01:36:40 AM
Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...

Oh man, I wish I was as good a supporter as you. One day, I'll get there.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: enigma on June 21, 2011, 02:37:52 AM
Villains; the title to this site says it all!

That might be a copyright thing. Mac or Dave W will no doubt be able to confirm.

'Villans' was never used back in the day. I can honestly say that I'd never heard the term used except in relation to that mascot fella until a few years ago, when suddenly the press decreed that every club had to have a nickname/collective name for their supporters. We were certainly never called Villans, and neither for that matter did the other lot call themselves Bluenoses.

When you say back in the day, how far back do you mean? In my Paninini sticker album back in the 80s it had our nickname as the Villans.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: olofmilosevic on June 21, 2011, 02:52:55 AM
VILLANS
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 21, 2011, 02:55:32 AM
Villains; the title to this site says it all!

That might be a copyright thing. Mac or Dave W will no doubt be able to confirm.

'Villans' was never used back in the day. I can honestly say that I'd never heard the term used except in relation to that mascot fella until a few years ago, when suddenly the press decreed that every club had to have a nickname/collective name for their supporters. We were certainly never called Villans, and neither for that matter did the other lot call themselves Bluenoses.

When you say back in the day, how far back do you mean? In my Paninini sticker album back in the 80s it had our nickname as the Villans.

It was sort-of a nickname but never used as far back as I can remember.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: brian green on June 21, 2011, 06:25:40 AM
I think it is the english language at work.   Historically the phrase was heroes and villains but usage has changed it to villans so either is correct.   Th great strength of english is that anything goes.   It is a great big string bag of a language you can still keep stuffing stuff in.   A typical example is the word invitation which has in recent time absorbed its own verb invite.

As for usage I always consider those who do not watch games from the Holte End as bona fide much respected Villains while we are Holte Enders.   I like being a Holte Ender because our patron is Sir Thomas Holte who on returning from a fruitless hunting day on finding his dinner not ready "cleaved the cook from nape to chin" with his sword.   Pretty much how I feel at the moment.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on June 21, 2011, 07:30:34 AM
Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...

Lions, Villans, Villains.....all modernist crap.

Come on you Perry Barr pets !
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on June 21, 2011, 07:34:44 AM
Quote
ki
Having a bit of an arguement regarding our nickname.
Could anyone tell me if it's VILLAINS or VILLANS?
I've been told it's the VILLANS and it's a 'play on words' thing.
I'm sure it's the VILLAINS though.
If by some chance it is villans, why?
Thanks

Is it argument or arguement?
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Sister of Top Cat on June 21, 2011, 08:16:47 AM
Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...
How do you know they were shouting "Come on you villans" as opposed to "Come on you villains"?  Surely they both sound the same?
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Dr Butler on June 21, 2011, 08:18:21 AM
as a Holte-ender don't mind either term to be honest

our Dad and Grandad always called us "the Villa"

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Archie on June 21, 2011, 08:20:22 AM
In Italy "Villans" is used by the TV commentators to indicate  the Villa players, like Reds for Pool, Red Devils for Man. Utd., Gunners for Arsenal, etc., not for the claret and blue faith.
Don't know if it's correct, though.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: frank on June 21, 2011, 08:26:37 AM
From my precious copy of "60 Seasons of League Football", which I bought in 1958:
"popularly and affectionately known as the Villains"
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: nigel on June 21, 2011, 08:44:23 AM
Quote
ki
Having a bit of an arguement regarding our nickname.
Could anyone tell me if it's VILLAINS or VILLANS?
I've been told it's the VILLANS and it's a 'play on words' thing.
I'm sure it's the VILLAINS though.
If by some chance it is villans, why?
Thanks

Is it argument or arguement?

Har Har  :D
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: nigel on June 21, 2011, 08:49:33 AM
Thanks for all replies.
It appears that either can be used then.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Daholteend on June 21, 2011, 09:29:01 AM
Sorry Chaps and Chapesses, your all wrong. I was listening  to Big Eck today and I distinctly heard him call the club Aztun Vulla, and we are now the Vullans!     ;)
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Jonathan Collett on June 21, 2011, 10:18:04 AM
Definitely only and traditionally Villans in terms of terrace history, Club official use and newspaper reports. Villains seems to have crept in post 80s but is just a misunderstanding or mis-spelling. Lions is an abomination arising from an era when people were trying to vandalise football history and recreate clubs (as in Leeds playing in all white, Liverpool all red and Coventry becoming"sky Blues")

Villans survives because it is the authentic and historic nickname of the Club.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Mac on June 21, 2011, 01:01:44 PM


Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...
How do you know they were shouting "Come on you villans" as opposed to "Come on you villains"?  Surely they both sound the same?

Just did a massive LOL. People are now looking at me funny.  Well more funny than ususal.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Mac on June 21, 2011, 01:05:12 PM
I heard "Come on You Lions" sung millions of times.  Never heard "Come on you Villa(i)ns".
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on June 21, 2011, 01:08:01 PM
Its Villans, as in come on you Villa(ns) meaning team..

Dont know who started this Villains crap(as in a criminal)..

Come on you Villans was shouted out regular in my Grandad's days at the club..More so than come on you Lions...
How do you know they were shouting "Come on you villans" as opposed to "Come on you villains"?  Surely they both sound the same?

The 'I' is silent as in Tilton.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Mac on June 21, 2011, 01:09:15 PM
Definitely only and traditionally Villans in terms of terrace history, Club official use and newspaper reports. Villains seems to have crept in post 80s but is just a misunderstanding or mis-spelling. Lions is an abomination arising from an era when people were trying to vandalise football history and recreate clubs (as in Leeds playing in all white, Liverpool all red and Coventry becoming"sky Blues")

Villans survives because it is the authentic and historic nickname of the Club.

Can someone please check John Lerwill's excellent tome for references.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: ktvillan on June 21, 2011, 01:27:59 PM
I think it is the english language at work.   Historically the phrase was heroes and villains but usage has changed it to villans so either is correct.   Th great strength of english is that anything goes.    It is a great big string bag of a language you can still keep stuffing stuff in.   A typical example is the word invitation which has in recent time absorbed its own verb invite.

I bloody hope not Brian.   I don't buy into this change by usage theory otherwise we will all have to put up with that bldy txt spk bollix in the future, and crap like "must of" and "should of".  For me it's not evolution it's just  laziness and ignorance.  And I can't say I've ever seen "Villans" used generally , only in  connection with our club.  For me it's always been Villans for Villa fans, probably from the days of the Villa Villan.  But ultimately it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Jonathan Collett on June 21, 2011, 01:28:53 PM

Can someone please check John Lerwill's excellent tome for references.

I haven't got the book but he once wrote in "the other place":

Quote
Ian Berry has just e-mailed me to contribute some clarification as to the term "Villan".

There was once a very imaginitive sports reporter by the name of Jack Urry (whose name has cropped up in another history thread) who - way back ca. 1880 - concocted the term "Villan" (as opposed to "Villain") and it has stuck ever since.

Jack Urry (who followed the Villa as a reporter and supporter from ca 1879) later wrote many articles for the Villa News and Record between 1906 and 1926. He died in 1928.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on June 21, 2011, 01:43:24 PM
I think it is the english language at work.   Historically the phrase was heroes and villains but usage has changed it to villans so either is correct.   Th great strength of english is that anything goes.    It is a great big string bag of a language you can still keep stuffing stuff in.   A typical example is the word invitation which has in recent time absorbed its own verb invite.

I bloody hope not Brian.   I don't buy into this change by usage theory otherwise we will all have to put up with that bldy txt spk bollix in the future, and crap like "must of" and "should of".  For me it's not evolution it's just  laziness and ignorance.  And I can't say I've ever seen "Villans" used generally , only in  connection with our club.  For me it's always been Villans for Villa fans, probably from the days of the Villa Villan.  But ultimately it doesn't really matter.

lol
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Chris Smith on June 21, 2011, 01:46:21 PM
Definitely only and traditionally Villans in terms of terrace history, Club official use and newspaper reports. Villains seems to have crept in post 80s but is just a misunderstanding or mis-spelling. Lions is an abomination arising from an era when people were trying to vandalise football history and recreate clubs (as in Leeds playing in all white, Liverpool all red and Coventry becoming"sky Blues")

Villans survives because it is the authentic and historic nickname of the Club.

I'd never heard Lions as a nickname until the Holte started using it in the "Come on You ..." chant so we might have oursleves to blame for that one.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Jonathan Collett on June 21, 2011, 01:59:17 PM

I'd never heard Lions as a nickname until the Holte started using it in the "Come on You ..." chant so we might have oursleves to blame for that one.


I think the Club set up a "lions club" in the 1960s (the building that later became the souvenir shop) and referred to some supporters clubs as lions clubs but as i say it was that era when all respect for tradition and heritage went out the window.

Whenever my dad heard "come on you Lions" sung in the Holte he would shake his head and say are Millwall playing? In any case "come on you" is really a cockney chant (as in "cam on you irons" cam on you spurs" etc) so that was another non authentic aspect.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: Gerrin on June 21, 2011, 02:30:22 PM
Interesting read, some explanation.. http://www.footynicknames.co.uk/Aston_Villa_-_The_Villains

I've always gone with Villains, and it makes sense if it dates back such a long time.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: nigel on June 21, 2011, 04:04:13 PM
Did a bit of research myself and found this on footynicknames.co.uk
There is also a little bit of confusion about their other main nickname, some people spell it as Villans and others as Villains, again though no prizes for guessing how that nickname came about !!

The one above is from a series of football cigarette cards issued by Sweetule products in 1959, the text on the back of which read;
"The Villains of Div 1. This nickname we presume is derived from the clubs own name. Founded in 1874, this club was one of the original sixteen members of Division 1, and has achieved many outstanding successes since then."

The second card is from a series named AFC Nicknames which was originally released in 1933 by Ogdens, they were subsequently reprinted in 1997 by Imperial Publishing and the text on the back reads;
"Aston Villa, one of the most famous and successful clubs since the introduction of League football, started from Aston Villa Wesleyan Chapel and it was in this way that they came by their rather curious name. Known as The Villa they are always depicted as a picturesque Villain, an appropriate representation of one of the most formidable teams in the game. They have, however, always cultivated a classical style which is the envy of their rivals and which has won them all the honours in the game. They share with Blackburn the record of having won the Cup 6 times."

There was  Painini card, date 1988, which had it as Villans. So that could have derived from an Italian spelling.

It would appear that history is on the side of Villains.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: dcdavecollett on June 21, 2011, 04:09:03 PM
Norman Edwards used to draw Guy Fawkes-like cartoons of the Villa Villain for the 'Sports Argus'.
Title: Re: VILLAINS or VILLANS
Post by: PONGO49 on June 22, 2011, 12:26:41 AM
The Villans
The Villains
The Villa
The Lions
Can't a club have more than one nickname
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