Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Lambert and Payne on June 17, 2011, 11:40:16 PM
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I'm from the younger generation, only 19 so I hear a lot of hate for the likes of Gregory (took us to a cup final?) And Collymore. I never understand it because I alway thought they were good. What are the reasons for this? And others for that matter, educate me please?!
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Gregory played shit football and his team put in a total non-performance in a game we've all forgotten.
Stan put in a load of couldn't be arsed performances and generally behaved like an arse.
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Gregory was good.
Collymore did not perform. Most of the anger is directed because he had the chance to play for his boyhood club (for a very large fee and expectation) and blew it. He scored very few goals, went through depression (I was at that Fulham cup game) and brought a media circus with him eg Ulrike.
Cannot fault him as a fan though.
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Collymore came to the club professing his love for it, then rarely showed any fight for the cause before calling in sick. Makes me laugh when I here him banging on about the present day footballers, he was a joke. Total tosser IMHO
Gregory was a decent player, versatile and played every number from 2-11 if I recall correctly. Did well as manager but then got a bit above himself.
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I don't think many of us hate Gregory. His style of football was a bit dull but he had some successes, the non-performance in the Cup Final was a heart-breaker but I don't hate him.
Stan Collymore was a waste. Undoubtedly massively talented, he generally gave the impression of one who couldn't be arsed. This may well have been due to depression which, even ten years ago, was considered to be something that a "real man" wouldn't suffer from and so Stan found little sympathy from some, especially the afforementioned Mr Gregory. He turned in the odd excellent performance, but far too few for the record signing we thought might change us from "very good" to "Champions". The most dislikable thing about him was hitting his girlfriend. Unforgivable. I still don't hate him though.
Struggling to think of too many hate figures. I used to hate Dwight Yorke but I've changed my mind over time. Alpay I found amusing as a "panto villain" and Hodge was before my time. Stephen Ireland is the best I can come up with. He really is a bell-end.
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Gregory played shit football and his team put in a total non-performance in a game we've all forgotten.
Stan put in a load of couldn't be arsed performances and generally behaved like an arse.
seem to recall for a while people thought our name had changed to Aston Villa Nil under Gregory. Though he did make us tough to beat while boring the shit out of us. He never understood Collymore, and Collymore had his numerous issues off the pitch. Apparently hitting Ulrika before getting battered himself wasn't a good move on his part. Gregory won't go down as the best or worst Villa manager ever. Collymore might go down as the most talented player never to show it in a Villa kit.
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Gregory played shit football and his team put in a total non-performance in a game we've all forgotten.
Stan put in a load of couldn't be arsed performances and generally behaved like an arse.
seem to recall for a while people thought our name had changed to Aston Villa Nil under Gregory. Though he did make us tough to beat while boring the shit out of us. He never understood Collymore, and Collymore had his numerous issues off the pitch. Apparently hitting Ulrika before getting battered himself wasn't a good move on his part. Gregory won't go down as the best or worst Villa manager ever. Collymore might go down as the most talented player never to show it in a Villa kit.
No he won't, because he did show it a fair few times. Not nearly enough, but just saying.
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Gregory played shit football and his team put in a total non-performance in a game we've all forgotten.
Stan put in a load of couldn't be arsed performances and generally behaved like an arse.
seem to recall for a while people thought our name had changed to Aston Villa Nil under Gregory. Though he did make us tough to beat while boring the shit out of us. He never understood Collymore, and Collymore had his numerous issues off the pitch. Apparently hitting Ulrika before getting battered himself wasn't a good move on his part. Gregory won't go down as the best or worst Villa manager ever. Collymore might go down as the most talented player never to show it in a Villa kit.
No he won't, because he did show it a fair few times. Not nearly enough, but just saying.
for what we paid at the time, the huge level of expectation, some of the great highs from his career at other clubs at the time of his arrival, being a Villa fan, for me he didn't give back anywhere near enough. Maybe "never" is harsh, but if I said he hardly ever showed his true potential, I'd defend my position.
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Fair enough.
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Ok hates a strong word. But i was at the cup final (don't remember much about the actual game!) But I've spoke to a lot of people with massive dislike to him
Stan just seems wasted potential? But the hate from some is as if he kissed the birmingham badge!
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I thought this was a general hate thing, I was going to say people who put those big plastic butterfly things on the front of their houses. Anything Villa connected I would go Blake, Hopkins, Turner, Hodge, O'Leary and Gardner. John and Stan don't really wind me up that much. Even the memory of Nigel Callaghan doesn't get my blood pressure up. Maybe it's because I used to fancy myself as a winger and I was crap and lazy too.
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People who play music out loud on public transport. They've already got their own thread though. Bastards.
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Why is it that Collymore is allowed into VP as a pundit for every game? Is he paying back the £20m on a 25 year plan?
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Collymore could have and should have been one of the best centre forwards we ever had, he had everything in terms of talent, physique and speed. He must live his life thinking what might have been.
Gregory as a manager bottled it, too many off field problems, believed all the hype and turned into a caricature. I dont hate either of them. Just sad.
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I don't even hate Robbie Savage anymore. What's wrong with me?
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Gregory nearly bankrupted the club and bought loads of old players with no re-sale value on top wages, so GT and DOL spent their tenures buying bargain basement players. See MON
Collymore was/is a nutcase, cost us a fortune and was probably the only time i ever had any sympathy for gregory. See Ireland
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I thought this was a general hate thing, I was going to say people who put those big plastic butterfly things on the front of their houses. Anything Villa connected I would go Blake, Hopkins, Turner, Hodge, O'Leary and Gardner. John and Stan don't really wind me up that much. Even the memory of Nigel Callaghan doesn't get my blood pressure up. Maybe it's because I used to fancy myself as a winger and I was crap and lazy too.
I've always questioned my dad on hopkins but he told my dad he should have played profesionally so my dad has clouded judgement! Hodge generates so much hate and it just seems the modern day footballer to me?
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I don't even hate Robbie Savage anymore. What's wrong with me?
Because he shafted the Bluenoses who worshipped
him and made them hate him. That made us warm to him.
(People who bought this may also like 'how not to hate Alex mcLeish' by the same author)
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It seems I am in a minority but I really liked Gregory. Sure he played proper boring 352, but we were hard to beat (although we drew 0-0 a fair bit).
Collymore I just feel sorry for.
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I loved Gregory, thought he done quite well and seemed a decent bloke.
Stan just gave up the moment he came to us and was very hated until he started being pro Villa in the media, before that 99% of the people here slated him.
Time heals
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I wouldn't say I disliked either of them. The football under Gregory wasn't to my liking, and the 2000 FA Cup final is still the biggest disappointment of my 45 years or so a s fan. Not because we lost, but because we were so negative on such a big day. It was said that Gregory used to fine players if they shot from outside the box.
Collymore is one of those I prefer to just remember for the good days - and there were a few, but as others have said there should have been more. He had everything to have become a Villa legend, an all-time great - but lacked one of the most crucial attributes, desire. He just never made the most of what he had.
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
Well he came from Wycombe and left Villa pretty much at the top of the PL to join Derby pretty much at the bottom. So it was up there. Didn't Derby stuff us 3 nil not long after though.
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
Is that not a good thing though?
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always loved the Gregory guitar...quality and creativity - what more can you ask for in a manager?
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that's what i disliked about him. A few quotes in the press and he had the support eating out his hand and it was obviously fake. I see mcliesh is following his example.
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
Is that not a good thing though?
It was great, and by all accounts he still thinks the same.
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McL plays the guitar?
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Dont understand hating either really to be honest.
Collymore was an enigma because he should have been Englands no.9 for many a year as he had absolutely everything as a footballer.
As for Gregory I always had the feeling he was a top quality manager with a touch of the barrow boy undercurrent such as Rednapp without quite the flare.
As Dave W said above though he really genuinely gave the impression it was the biggest job in football.
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I remember topping the PL in about November with JG and there was some statistic about us having 9 or 10 outfield English players with Bossie in goal. I'd guess but might be wrong - Charles, Ugo, Southgate, Wright, Draper blah blah blah Merson. Dublin. Can't remember the others just now.
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I would never compare Gregory with Collymore - I met Gregory when he was in charge of Wycombe and Collymore was making his first apperance and my then young lad needed a wee. Took us and was a gent. Do think he got a bit abovee himself though. As for Collymore, was in a nightclub when he was burning notes to show what a guy he was
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
Is that not a good thing though?
there are some ex-Villa out there who will always refer to the club as if they are still part of us. I find that with Gregory all the time, same with McInally, God and Big Ron and to a slightly lesser extent Sir Graham. He still loves us, but he's a little more political with his words. Collymore is unashamedly biased.
The bitter cock Tony Cascarino, not so much.
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People like BFR and GT had, and still have an affinity with the club without the need to blow smoke up the fan's asses every few weeks. Gregory just used it as a PR tool
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
Is that not a good thing though?
there are some ex-Villa out there who will always refer to the club as if they are still part of us. I find that with Gregory all the time, same with McInally, God and Big Ron and to a slightly lesser extent Sir Graham. He still loves us, but he's a little more political with his words. Collymore is unashamedly biased.
The bitter cock Tony Cascarino, not so much.
Sir Graham's first love was Watford and that's understandable. But I always remember speaking to him during O'Leary's first season - and don't forget this was not long after that disgraceful booing - and he asked how "we" were doing. Call me cynical, but McGrath took a fair bit of time before we were higher than third in his affections.
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
Is that not a good thing though?
there are some ex-Villa out there who will always refer to the club as if they are still part of us. I find that with Gregory all the time, same with McInally, God and Big Ron and to a slightly lesser extent Sir Graham. He still loves us, but he's a little more political with his words. Collymore is unashamedly biased.
The bitter cock Tony Cascarino, not so much.
Sir Graham's first love was Watford and that's understandable. But I always remember speaking to him during O'Leary's first season - and don't forget this was not long after that disgraceful booing - and he asked how "we" were doing. Call me cynical, but McGrath took a fair bit of time before we were higher than third in his affections.
fair enough Dave, you'll have been more close to the action than most of us. The booing of Sir Graham that day was really as low as this club's fans has gone in the last 20 years. I wish the internet was around back then like it is today. It would have been interesting to have seen if the same passion we've seen this week against McLeish would have been directed at a real injustice, at the morons that booed a man who resurrected our club from the depths of despair.
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Never truly hated either.
Always doubted Stan's Villa supporting credentials though, dating back to an early 90's interview with 90 minutes or one of those similar magazines. Paraphrasing but: "People keep on mentioning that (being a Villa fan) but I only watched them because I liked Gary Shaw. I probably went to more Wolves matches than Villa ones."
There's also a bit in his book where he talks about going to his first game in the Witton: "I fell asleep halfway through. Perhaps it was an omen." and how maybe his relationship with Ulrika was his attempt to stay in the spotlight, because 'if Villa weren't doing well they'd generally be off the radar.' He talks about getting bad vibes on his first day as a Villa player, at the press conference and looking around the ground and thinking it was nothing like he remembered as a kid. How Villa fans are generally fickle Range Rover drivers from Lichfield, unlike the passionate and knowledgeable Redscouse, Wolves, Olbiyun and even B-lose fans. Any of that sound like something a Villa fan would say?
He went on to describe the move to Villa as a step back and how he wished he'd stuck it out at Liverpool. All this was contained in a chapter called 'Villa: Going Nowhere' IIRC. Which would have been pretty accurate at various periods since. But at that time he was joining a team that had finished 4th and 5th and were being tipped as outsiders for the league. He also upped his wages with us compared to Liverpool (and he wasn't exactly underpaid there) and left just as Michael Owen was breaking through. So it's not exactly as if he was doing us a favour by coming to VP, joining for the romance of it all.
Gregory made an arse of himself on a fair few occasions -in particular dealing with the Stan issue- and the football was largely dull. But stats wise he's one of the best managers we've had since the war.
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Gregory was good.
I have to stop you right there. No he wasn't.
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I didn't mind Gregory and when he is on TV you can see he does have effection for the club.The football was boring mostly but there was bright patches Angel and Hendrie linked well at times ,Carbone was a brief hi-light and Merson was special.Like Dave say's he treated the Villa job like it was the best in the world and he was lucky to have it ,where as other seemed like the club was lucky to have them
As I recall he walked out after we beat Charlton in a Monday night match.There was some issue on his part about Doug not funding at 8mil bid for Muzzy Izzet
Collymore was just a waste of time really and just never fitted into the team Little had built.
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I miss the nineties.
Villa were 'respected'. We had consistent performances in and around 4th-5th, even 2nd. We had credibility. For the last couple of years under MON we regained that. I hope it hasnt gone.
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I don't hate either of them Gregory was not that good and collymore had problems.
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I H8 ....places in Shanghai like shopping malls, the metro and McDonalds that have no airconditioning on during the middle of summer, in order to save money.
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I liked Gregory. Collymore just couldn't be arsed
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One thing about Gregory - he always gave the impression that he regarded the Villa job as the best in football.
Is that not a good thing though?
It was great, and by all accounts he still thinks the same.
Having read an interview with him last year, I'd agree with that.
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I thought this was a general hate thing, I was going to say people who put those big plastic butterfly things on the front of their houses. Anything Villa connected I would go Blake, Hopkins, Turner, Hodge, O'Leary and Gardner. John and Stan don't really wind me up that much. Even the memory of Nigel Callaghan doesn't get my blood pressure up. Maybe it's because I used to fancy myself as a winger and I was crap and lazy too.
This list is fun: no Christmas cards from me either for Blake, Hopkins, Hodge or Gardner. Booooooooooooooo!
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I always liked Gregory but good God, the football was dull. Considering the cup final is one of the biggest games since I've been a fan I remember very little about it. Barely even remember Chelsea's goal. I do remember being top of the league for what seemed like half the season though. I actually dared to dream we were actually going to go and win the bloody thing until we had our own special brand of collapse that we specialise in to this day. Anyone remember how long we were top for?
As for Stan, he could have been one of the best forwards in Europe. He had the talent, pace, physique, technique - the lot. It's just a shame he had those inner demons he couldn't ever get the better of.
He actually reminds me a lot of Dalian Atkinson. Very talented forward who could be devastating on his day, just didn't show it often enough. Atkinson doesn't get any of the vitriol aimed towards him these days, (did at the time though) People just remember the wonder goals. Although he did help us win a trophy to be fair.
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I don't even hate Robbie Savage anymore. What's wrong with me?
That's because you are now an Astoon Fealla supporter! ( as I read from your signature)
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i hate the Tesco-bags
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I liked Gregory for the most part. I just wish he didn't have to be so vocal in the press.
Regarding the Cup Final, he made a huge mistake in taking the enjoyment out of it from the morning right through to kick off. In those days the FA Cup was still a romantic affair normally with the the Press on the bus and with the players, sing songs, terrible club songs etc. He chose not to play any part of it all and also the manor in which we played was so gutless.
I'm sure he regrets it now.
Collymore was supposed to be special. He so wasn't.
I got injured that summer so decided to join the South West Lions and travel up every home match, I was so excited to be part of it all for once in my life. I still look back and think what might have been that season. I think it was the worst start to a season we have ever had (it felt like it). I'll never forget the drubbing Sutton gave out to us at home.
I don't think there is anyone really I hate in football though. It's quite a strong word really.
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As one who suffers from depression, I have sympathy for Collymore.
On your good days you soar on your bad days it's a struggle to just get out of bed, due to self doubt.
That is identical to his performances.
So hate, no.
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Cant say i hated either really. Gregory as a lot of posters have said played really dull boring football but always gave the impression he had one of the best jobs in football and loved the Villa. He even paid out a fortune for a villa number plate,even if it was for show.As for Collymore,just a waste of space. Only players i can say i have hated are Steve Hodge ,Craig Gardner and Savo. I was one of the fans behind the goal when Savo gobbed at us. i could never forgive a guy for that and think he was lucky to ever play for us again.
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I liked Gregory. Met him in thẹ Holte suite one night late after thẹ AGM. He was really sound and brought a round of drinks for us all. As for his football, yes at times it was less than exhilarating, but I also remember thẹ run in at the end of his first season. Brilliant! Shame about thẹ cup final though. I think we got stage fright. As for Collymore, well his depression probably explains his lack lustre performances, but I still remember thẹ Atletico Madrid game, brilliant goal! Shame that he couldn't have turned it on more. He's very articulate and always bigs up thẹ villa. Don't hate either though. Biggest hate figure: Bingo Billy Mcneil. He truly did know shit football!
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Funny you should mention Billy McNeill Rico. I have been thinking about him a lot recently and the hard nosed no nonsense quality football we were told he was going to bring down from Scotland to Villa. Became a hate figure. Plus ca change and all that.
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Gregory was Ok but like our last few managers did not have any Tactical Nous!! Unable or willing to make a substitution to try and change the game, just the same as the two idiots O'leary and O'niel!!
And as for Collymore, he's just a Lazy Gobshite!!
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John Gregory was proud to be Aston Villa Manager and gave 100%. Ok so those cup matches did him no favours in the popularity stakes. As for Collymore the same could not be said. 7 million at the time ......Interestingly though the Evening Mail ran a survey on which striker to sign at the time and the fans voted massively in favour of Stan. I can also remember the fans not particularly overwhelmed hen Ron Saunders got the Villa job in 1974, just as now with Mcleish...........lets wait and see how it pans out...............
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I've read Gregory's book and he was genuinely honoured to be our manager, he loved it. It was a hell of a leap for him and overall he did well considering where he came from. Steve Stride suggested him to Doug and it was a shrewd move and that alone is why having someone with a bit of football and Vila know-how is a good idea to have on the board.
As for Collymore, he did'nt realise how good he was and did'nt really seem to care either, i'm sure he regrets it now because he could have been one of the best strikers in europe. He was, on his day that good.