Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: pooligan on June 15, 2011, 04:35:18 PM
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Most Villa fans of the era can remember Oscar Arce at the club. How many can remember his brother? I stand to be corrected on this,but i pretty sure his name was Hector Fullone. I saw him play several times in our Central League side and he looked useful.
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He was an amatuer, and may have been the last one signed by the Villa. He played a few reserve games, and in deference to his status was listed as H. Arce.
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And now it looks like we're appointing his amateur Scottish cousin - F. Arce.
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If I remember correctly, they turned up one day claiming to be Argentinian internationals (At least Oscar did), creating great interest and hope in what was a pretty hopeless era. Don't think either of them made it to the first team and both were soon gone, as was our hope.
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Was Arce our first "Salifou" - someone relatively unknown but exotic that we can place unrealistic expectations that they might be the flair player we've all dreamed of seeing in a Villa shirt.
See also - Nii Lamptey, Fabio Ferraresi.
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I am old enough to have seen him play.
We had a team sheet then that included "Brown, Arce, Hole" Looks like we may be heading that way again. :)
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Is that the brother who liked to play practical jokes in the dressing room so ended up being nicknamed
Silly Arce?
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Why not Aitken brown arce hole
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Why not Aitken brown arce hole
Mick Wright ?
Wright aitken brown arce hole.
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I am old enough to have seen him play.
We had a team sheet then that included "Brown, Arce, Hole" Looks like we may be heading that way again. :)
No we didn't.
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Yep, he joined as an amateur and actually was better than his brother.
Oscar was 'allegedly' an Argentinian Under 23 International (although his CV seemed a little 'creative') who was engaged to a Scottish girl he met whilst she was on a gap year in Argentina, he came over to the UK with her and was running an antique shop in Glasgow when he thought he'd 'try his luck' and write to Villa.
He had'nt played for two years, was unfit, but could juggle a ball like a circus act, but was hailed as a hero without really doing anything of note, and was bound to fail, his first game a 2-0 defeat at non-league Bedford Town culminated in him being sent off for spitting at an 'over-zealous' opponent, eager to kick lumps out of this skilful foreigner.
He scored a swerving free kick in a Central League game but after just seven reserve appearances and one goal he suffered a knee injury and was carried off to hospital to have an operation and that was the end of Oscar.
His brother, Hector Fullone, was younger, fitter and more attuned to robust challenges, he scored a few goals for the reserves and played more games, but they both returned to relative obscurity back in Argentina when Tommy Docherty arrved at the club.
Interestingly, Luis 'Oscar' Fullone Arce became a respected coach, mainly in Africa, and coached until quite recently.
And the infamous half - back line of Brown, Arce, Hole never actually played together !
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Yep, he joined as an amateur and actually was better than his brother.
Oscar was 'allegedly' an Argentinian Under 23 International (although his CV seemed a little 'creative') who was engaged to a Scottish girl he met whilst she was on a gap year in Argentina, he came over to the UK with her and was running an antique shop in Glasgow when he thought he'd 'try his luck' and write to Villa.
He had'nt played for two years, was unfit, but could juggle a ball like a circus act, but was hailed as a hero without really doing anything of note, and was bound to fail, his first game a 2-0 defeat at non-league Bedford Town culminated in him being sent off for spitting at an 'over-zealous' opponent, eager to kick lumps out of this skilful foreigner.
He scored a swerving free kick in a Central League game but after just seven reserve appearances and one goal he suffered a knee injury and was carried off to hospital to have an operation and that was the end of Oscar.
His brother, Hector Fullone, was younger, fitter and more attuned to robust challenges, he scored a few goals for the reserves and played more games, but they both returned to relative obscurity back in Argentina when Tommy Docherty arrved at the club.
Interestingly, Luis 'Oscar' Fullone Arce became a respected coach, mainly in Africa, and coached until quite recently.
And the infamous half - back line of Brown, Arce, Hole never actually played together !
Cracking post Oscar. Was that at the same time as Mwila and Kapengwe too? Did you ever see them play - they were really exotic names to me as a nipper and I so wanted them to be good, in an era where the other Midlands teams were a division above us
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Yep, he joined as an amateur and actually was better than his brother.
Oscar was 'allegedly' an Argentinian Under 23 International (although his CV seemed a little 'creative') who was engaged to a Scottish girl he met whilst she was on a gap year in Argentina, he came over to the UK with her and was running an antique shop in Glasgow when he thought he'd 'try his luck' and write to Villa.
He had'nt played for two years, was unfit, but could juggle a ball like a circus act, but was hailed as a hero without really doing anything of note, and was bound to fail, his first game a 2-0 defeat at non-league Bedford Town culminated in him being sent off for spitting at an 'over-zealous' opponent, eager to kick lumps out of this skilful foreigner.
He scored a swerving free kick in a Central League game but after just seven reserve appearances and one goal he suffered a knee injury and was carried off to hospital to have an operation and that was the end of Oscar.
His brother, Hector Fullone, was younger, fitter and more attuned to robust challenges, he scored a few goals for the reserves and played more games, but they both returned to relative obscurity back in Argentina when Tommy Docherty arrved at the club.
Interestingly, Luis 'Oscar' Fullone Arce became a respected coach, mainly in Africa, and coached until quite recently.
And the infamous half - back line of Brown, Arce, Hole never actually played together !
Cracking post Oscar. Was that at the same time as Mwila and Kapengwe too? Did you ever see them play - they were really exotic names to me as a nipper and I so wanted them to be good, in an era where the other Midlands teams were a division above us
Cheers Mahogony !
Emment Kapengwe and Freddie Mwila came later when Tommy Docherty signed them both from the NASL's Atlanta Chiefs after they played in a Summer Tournament in the States that Villa played in.
They both played a couple of games as Villa were spiralling towards the Third Division, and both were completely out of their depth, even for Second Division basement games, in fact I saw them in a couple of Central League games and they looked woefully inept at that level too !
These two, along with the Fullone or "Arce" brothers, sum up Villa's desperation at the time, clutching at any straw to get them out of the mess they were in.
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I am old enough to have seen him play.
We had a team sheet then that included "Brown, Arce, Hole" Looks like we may be heading that way again. :)
No we didn't.
I've always said that this was an urban myth. Unless my feeble memory has completely collapsed, I'm pretty certain that neither of the brothers played for the first team.
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Neither did ???
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And they were gone before Jimmy Brown joined us.
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I saw the 2 games Emment Kapengwe played. On a Wednesday night we played Carlisle and he looked like he might have something but I was only about 10 at the time so what did I know. Dave Rudge scored in a 1-0 win. On the following Saturday against Blackpool, Freddie Mwila played too and we drew 0-0 I think. Neither showed anything that day and I think that was the last we heard of them.
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Wow I love threads like this.
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I saw the 2 games Emment Kapengwe played. On a Wednesday night we played Carlisle and he looked like he might have something but I was only about 10 at the time so what did I know. Dave Rudge scored in a 1-0 win. On the following Saturday against Blackpool, Freddie Mwila played too and we drew 0-0 I think. Neither showed anything that day and I think that was the last we heard of them.
Not quite. Emment Kapengwe played a third match for us, at Millwall. Crowe took him off after an hour. He'd looked very lively and the Millwall fans in the Main Stand applauded him warmly as he came off.
I think Mwila was the captain of Zambia. The one time I saw him in the first team he kept getting caught in possession and misplacing passes. It is very very difficult for a central midfielder to flourish in a level which is too high for him. This season Bradley has reminded me a lot of him.
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Kapengwe was a bull of a man, very direct too, he had played for Atlanta for a number of years mainly as a wide right player.
Mwila was more of a skilful player, he was very slight, a bit of the build of Delph, but he got lost in matches and didn't like the physical aspect.
That Blackpool game was awful by the way, pouring with rain all match, from what I remember
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I saw the 2 games Emment Kapengwe played. On a Wednesday night we played Carlisle and he looked like he might have something but I was only about 10 at the time so what did I know. Dave Rudge scored in a 1-0 win. On the following Saturday against Blackpool, Freddie Mwila played too and we drew 0-0 I think. Neither showed anything that day and I think that was the last we heard of them.
Not quite. Emment Kapengwe played a third match for us, at Millwall. Crowe took him off after an hour. He'd looked very lively and the Millwall fans in the Main Stand applauded him warmly as he came off.
I think Mwila was the captain of Zambia. The one time I saw him in the first team he kept getting caught in possession and misplacing passes. It is very very difficult for a central midfielder to flourish in a level which is too high for him. This season Bradley has reminded me a lot of him.
SarkGrime, I am amazed at Millwall fans applauding any away player, ever. Was that before they came over and tried to give you a few friendly digs or were they different in those day?
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Yes it was raining all game in that dreadful game against Blackpool which ended 0-0 . I remember it well as i was in the Witton end and got drenched.
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SarkGrime, I am amazed at Millwall fans applauding any away player, ever. Was that before they came over and tried to give you a few friendly digs or were they different in those day?
Only the adults in the main stand. But they were Millwall fans all right. I know that because we'd forked out for the safety of seats in the stand and were sitting nice and quiet. *You* are amazed? How do you think we felt? That's why I remember it so well. Otherwise no, they weren't any different in those days - oh dear no.
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Oscar's signing was pretty symptomatic of the way the club was run in those days. He'd aproached Villa - presumably no one else would touch him - and was awarded a generous contract pretty much sight unseen.
He wasn't actually sent off in the pre-season friendly, the ref confirmed afterwards that he would have been had it been a league match, but as it was a friendly Villa were allowed to make a diplomatic substitution. It wasn't just the one incident, he'd been at it in his entire time on the pitch. 'It may take a while before he's ready for first team action' was the club's post-match take on the matter.
Oscar went on the coach at Millwall and (if I remember correctly) Sheffield United. He even had the temerity to criticise Villa in a Sunday Times article during his Millwall days. Something along the lines of attitudes at the club being symptomatic of the english game's intolerance of skilful players and how unappreciated he felt in his time at Villa Park. Even forty-plus years on I'd be happy to show him how much we appreciated him. I'd even polish my toecaps just for him.
Hector was an odd one. He couldn't have played for the first team if we'd have wanted to pick him. I have no idea why. Maybe work permit issues, which would have explained his amateur status. No doubt he got a few bob in his pocket one way or another. We had no idea at the time why he was even turning out for the reserves, presumably as some kind of sweetener to his brother. Of the two, Hector did seem to be the better player but only in relative terms. They were both fucking useless.
Your memory is correct Clarrie. Emment Kapemgwe's debut was hailed as a revelation. We did actualy win a game and he was prominent if not actually match-influencing. Mwila's debut the following saturday was more low key but warmly received nevertheless. They were both decent players, I assumed at the time that their subsequent obscurity had more to do with acclimatisation or similar. Black players, let alone Africans, were distinctly rare in those days. They didn't show much in the reserve games I saw either.
I can remember the rain against Blackpool too, plus Brian Godfrey heading an otherwise (unintentionally) goalbound free-kick wide. Maybe it was the weather that did for Emment and Freddie.
We played three home games against Carlisle, Blackpool and Bolton in 8 days for two wins and a draw, which took us up to something like 5th or 6th from bottom - our highest position all season.
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Does anyone remember the name of the black player we had in the early sixties?
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Yes, i remember the black player we had in the early sixties. It was Stan Horne if i remember correctly. i recall seeing him play a few times. Stand to be corrected on this,but i think he left us for Manchester City
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Does anyone remember the name of the black player we had in the early sixties?
I can remember Compton Edwards in the youth team, but I don't remember a black first team player. He was the youth teamer regarded as the most-likely-to from the (very badly run) youth system pre-Docherty.
The last I saw of Compton Edwards was him playing a game for Stafford Rangers (90% sure it was them, can't remember the opposition), some time around 1970/71.
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Yes, i remember the black player we had in the early sixties. It was Stan Horne if i remember correctly. i recall seeing him play a few times. Stand to be corrected on this,but i think he left us for Manchester City
That's the one. Thanks.
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Does anyone remember the name of the black player we had in the early sixties?
I can remember Compton Edwards in the youth team, but I don't remember a black first team player. He was the youth teamer regarded as the most-likely-to from the (very badly run) youth system pre-Docherty.
The last I saw of Compton Edwards was him playing a game for Stafford Rangers (90% sure it was them, can't remember the opposition), some time around 1970/71.
Compton Edwards was in the same school year as me, but different school, he was at Handsworth Tech. Every year we played them we lost, because of him and one other boy (Byron Ellis?). It was men against boys or at the very least big strong boys against wimps. We all thought he would make it as a professional footballer.
At the back of my mind there's a thought that Edwards played at least one game for the reserves against Everton. This from the man who forgot his train ticket and sandwiches this morning mind.
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Talking of black players when they were exception rather than the norm, anybody remember Ces Pod ? Not sure if I got the spelling right, but I remember him playing against us for Bradford City at Valley Parade in the 3rd division. A handy and pacey full back I recall. I remember the game as well because we were sitting down in the stand that burnt down a few years later.
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Yes i remember Ces Podd ,tall lanky full back playing for Bradford City against us in the 3rd. I was at that game to and standing in that stand you mention. Really nasty atmosphere in the ground that day. Before the game i remember most of the Villa fans ,me included, were standing in the open end behind the goal when the Bradford mob charged across the pitch and hate to say it ,kicked fuck out of us.A lot of us managed to escape into that stand. I remember that stand had seats with terracing in front and i watched the game standing in front of Jake Findley,Bobby Macdonald and Mike Brady who i knew well as they use to use the same club as me.I remember when we scored a little group of villa fans just in front of me cheering the goal. That let the Bradford fans know where we were.Within minutes there was a mob of Bradford in that stand looking for us. I remember as if it was yesterday a Bradford fan being stabbed just in front of me and Bobby Mac laughing at me and saying glad we are in here and not out there. At the end of the game ,the walk back to the coach seemed to take for ever as there were hundreds of Bradford fans looking for villa fans and hardly a copper in sight. Strange i can remember all that and hardly a thing about the match. I think we won 1-0 with Charlie Aitken scoring but i could be wrong
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It was Ces Podd.
Yeah I remember him playing for Bradford, I also believe he was the first black player to be granted a testimonial match by the FA and he fielded an all-black team in the game.
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I remember Ces Podd too as he was the first black player I ever saw in the flesh, playing at left back (I think) covering the flank in front of the Trinity enclosure. It’s funny pooligan, but my memory is of him being short and stocky – I was only a nipper so probably not very accurate.
I know some fellas from the C Crew who as youngsters went to that away game you refer to at Valley Parade and they recounted similar stories to yours. Their memory was that lots of Leeds fans turned up to join forces with Bradford fans that day and it was a very ugly afternoon.
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Yeah Pat, it was rumoured there was Leeds fans there. The season we we won promotion under GT was just as bad. After the game we were one of the first out of the car park just over the road from the away end. Bad move, we had just gone a few yards up the road from the ground when we came across a big punch up in the middle of the road and one guy was actually thrown on to the bonnet of our car.Talk of these first black players,can anyone say who was the first black player to play in the first division, the first one i can remember seeing is the old Leeds United winger Albert Johanson followed by Clyde Best of West Ham.
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And they were gone before Jimmy Brown joined us.
I realise this is a very old thread, but I was at a Central League game in about 1969 and this was indeed the inside-forward line-up on the team sheet. I remember that Hector Fullone (on the team sheet as Arce) scored a cracking drive from just inside the penalty area. Jimmy Brown had not long joined, and I think Barry Hole was playing because he was coming back from suspension (or possibly injury).
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I don't have a complete record for the stiffs for 1968-69 but Oscar & Hector had left by January 69.
Hopefully this might be of use for those who remember the brothers Arce.
(http://i.imgur.com/q97S2lu.png)
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In that Coventry game at Highfield Road, Oscar suffered a bad injury and was carried off, never to return again with his brother not far behind.
In the 5-1 defeat at home to Blackpool in the previous match, Oscar scored a free kick which was his standout moment in a Villa shirt, albiet in the reserves.
He later went on to be a respected coach mainly in Africa, but what happened to Hector god knows.