Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Leicester_Villian on June 13, 2011, 07:43:16 PM
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Have to ask the question .....would we be in the position we are now in the Doug era?
Yes he got slagged off but the majority ........ but money was spend ...maybe not enough BUT the club was a business
As for managers ...well I don't recall ever being in this mess ...maybe I will be proved wrong and all will be revealed ...but I doubt it somehow
I am basically very disappointed with whats going on as RL/PF I am afraid are just not football people
But Doug would not have allowed this to happen ...yes he had experience of managers but the club have had a few in past year and we don't seem to learn
It was clear to all that GH was going so why was a manager not lined up
Does this show that Doug did have some idea after all?
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As for managers ...well I don't recall ever being in this mess ...maybe I will be proved wrong and all will be revealed ...but I doubt it somehow
So it's taken longer than you'd like and therefore it's not going to happen? Is that your logic?
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But, what have they actually done wrong?
Have they employed the wrong person?
Have they left it so long that we've missed out on transfer targets?
Have they failed to sell the club to the person they actually want as first choice?
Have they failed to tell the press who they're interested in and who is favourite?
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Is this the first "It was better under Doug" post?
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How far will this band wagon go? The wheels will fall off the others if any more jump aboard.
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Have you blocked out the mid 80s ?
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faulkner is not up to it.
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No way would Doug have allowed this to happen, he'd have appointed Southgate or Grant by now.
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Fucking Hell.
<goes to cupboard to get gun>
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Yes, Doug didn't appoint any shit managers and always made the right choice. Next you'll be telling me it was all down to Doug that MON came to Villa in the first place...
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Doug was always decisive
He was also considerably richer than yo!
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Doug was always decisive
He was also considerably richer than yo!
What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.
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Good Appointments: Graham Taylor I , Ron Atkinson, Brian Little, John Gregory, <ahem> Martin O'Neill
Godawful Appointments: Graham Turner, Billy McNeill, Jozef Venglos, Graham Taylor II, David O'Leary
So that's at best a 50% hit rate.
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Did he appoint Crowe and Saunders?
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Right, so that's:
Replacing a European Cup-winning manager with one whose biggest achievements had been with Shrewsbury Town, replacing him with a manager who the world and his dog knew was just killing time until he took over at Celtic, having the first English team back in Europe turned down by the boss of Bristol Rovers, introducing another manager to a press conference with the immortal words "Who knows who this is?" and his final sacking taking place against a backdrop of the commercial manager reading a type-written note from behind the locked North Stand gates.
I'm sure we all miss those days.
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In those days I had hair, I miss that.
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In those days I had hair, I miss that.
Me too. I also miss seeing my knob.
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As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.
Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.
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Was Deadly more decisive than Randy: definately, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.
Overall, was Deadly a better chairman than Randy is: no way.
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As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.
Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.
That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?
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As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.
Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.
That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?
@dave. No question there are some massive grey area's around Dougies wheeling and dealings, hell as a kid i washed his Jag and he still owe's me the sheckles, the only point i was making is that in part, a pretty large part, Villa are what they are to some degree down to Mr Ellis. Thats the only point, and also, you have to say when Doug moved he moved fast, hiring and firing.
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Just out of interest, can anyone remember how much time there was between SGT1 leaving and BFR arriving, as that's about the longest gap I can remember us having between managers under Ellis? Mind you, as he got rid of so many (mutually of course!) mid season he usually had to act sharpish.
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Just out of interest, can anyone remember how much time there was between SGT1 leaving and BFR arriving, as that's about the longest gap I can remember us having between managers under Ellis? Mind you, as he got rid of so many (mutually of course!) mid season he usually had to act sharpish.
About eleven months - Dr Jo came in between.
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Just out of interest, can anyone remember how much time there was between SGT1 leaving and BFR arriving, as that's about the longest gap I can remember us having between managers under Ellis? Mind you, as he got rid of so many (mutually of course!) mid season he usually had to act sharpish.
About eleven months - Dr Jo came in between.
I meant Dr Jo and BFR!
Jeeze i'm a twat. Absolutely no idea why I typed SGT1. I blame the lack of hair affecting my brain.
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As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.
Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.
That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?
@dave. No question there are some massive grey area's around Dougies wheeling and dealings, hell as a kid i washed his Jag and he still owe's me the sheckles, the only point i was making is that in part, a pretty large part, Villa are what they are to some degree down to Mr Ellis. Thats the only point, and also, you have to say when Doug moved he moved fast, hiring and firing.
Except when he sacked Barton and the job was touted around Europe before we finally got Turner six weeks later. Sir Graham left in May 1990 - after being turned down by Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis Dr Jo eventually arrived during the pre-season tour. 16 days (during the season) between BFR and Brian. That's not moving fast.
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Its not the first time we have been turned down then?
Out of curiosity did we actually call off an appointment with McClaren due to fan power? Or is it the press (Sky Sports) actually making that one up?
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Doug had Steve Stride whereas Randy has Paul Faulkner ?
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As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.
Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.
That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?
@dave. No question there are some massive grey area's around Dougies wheeling and dealings, hell as a kid i washed his Jag and he still owe's me the sheckles, the only point i was making is that in part, a pretty large part, Villa are what they are to some degree down to Mr Ellis. Thats the only point, and also, you have to say when Doug moved he moved fast, hiring and firing.
Except when he sacked Barton and the job was touted around Europe before we finally got Turner six weeks later. Sir Graham left in May 1990 - after being turned down by Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis Dr Jo eventually arrived during the pre-season tour. 16 days (during the season) between BFR and Brian. That's not moving fast.
This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82 :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
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This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82 :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
He did it to make them relegated.
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This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82 :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
He did it to make them relegated.
The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82 :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
He did it to make them relegated.
The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the team.
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Its not the first time we have been turned down then?
Out of curiosity did we actually call off an appointment with McClaren due to fan power? Or is it the press (Sky Sports) actually making that one up?
The press and Sky sports making stuff up? Never.
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Have to ask the question .....would we be in the position we are now in the Doug era?
Yes he got slagged off but the majority ........ but money was spend ...maybe not enough BUT the club was a business
As for managers ...well I don't recall ever being in this mess ...maybe I will be proved wrong and all will be revealed ...but I doubt it somehow
I am basically very disappointed with whats going on as RL/PF I am afraid are just not football people
But Doug would not have allowed this to happen ...yes he had experience of managers but the club have had a few in past year and we don't seem to learn
It was clear to all that GH was going so why was a manager not lined up
Does this show that Doug did have some idea after all?
Oh God!! This is insane
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This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82 :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
He did it to make them relegated.
The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the team.
Why would/did he do that?
I'm not arguing, incidentally, just curious. It was too young to care about what happened off the pitch, it took me a long time just to find out what a Mita Copier was.
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This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82 :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
He did it to make them relegated.
The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the team.
Why would/did he do that?
I'm not arguing, incidentally, just curious. It was too young to care about what happened off the pitch, it took me a long time just to find out what a Mita Copier was.
Because they were there, and he wasn't.
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This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82 :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
He did it to make them relegated.
The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the team.
Why would/did he do that?
I'm not arguing, incidentally, just curious. It was too young to care about what happened off the pitch, it took me a long time just to find out what a Mita Copier was.
Because they were there, and he wasn't.
Oh, I've heard that one. Sorry, I thought there was some additional subterfuge I ought to have known about.
I guess this lust for secrets is infectious!
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Brave man Leicester Villian daring to queston RL/PF. They cant do any wrong in many peoples eyes posting on here it seems
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Doug was always decisive
He was also considerably richer than yo!
What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.
Hi Dave
Apologies for not answering quicker.
The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.
The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.
That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.
WW
*Harry Enfield and Chums I think
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Doug was always decisive
He was also considerably richer than yo!
What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.
Hi Dave
Apologies for not answering quicker.
The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.
The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.
That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.
WW
*Harry Enfield and Chums I think
Perhaps if you had added an emoticon at the end of the sentence or alluded to one then any misunderstanding would have been avoided. Just an obervation mind.
;)
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Doug was always decisive
He was also considerably richer than yo!
What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.
Hi Dave
Apologies for not answering quicker.
The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.
The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.
That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.
WW
*Harry Enfield and Chums I think
Perhaps if you had added an emoticon at the end of the sentence or alluded to one then any misunderstanding would have been avoided. Just an obervation mind.
;)
Point taken Dave - don't want people jumping to conclusions ;-)
WW
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Doug was always decisive
He was also considerably richer than yo!
What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.
Hi Dave
Apologies for not answering quicker.
The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.
The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.
That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.
WW
*Harry Enfield and Chums I think
Perhaps if you had added an emoticon at the end of the sentence or alluded to one then any misunderstanding would have been avoided. Just an obervation mind.
;)
Point taken Dave - don't want people jumping to conclusions ;-)
WW
Cool.
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Randy Lerner decided to ask Deadly Doug to choose the manager. Who would Deadly appoint this time.
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Hard to say.
I'm betting he wouldn't appoint Fucking Eck.
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Hard to say.
I'm betting he wouldn't appoint Fucking Eck.
Hughes or Grayson.
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Allardyce.
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do we really need another thread?
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I would suggest that RL's decision to appoint GH when the season was underway and the pressure was on was slightly better than Doug's appointment of McNeil in similar circumstances in '86.