Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Leicester_Villian on June 13, 2011, 07:43:16 PM

Title: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Leicester_Villian on June 13, 2011, 07:43:16 PM
Have to ask the question .....would we be in the position we are now in the Doug era?

Yes he got slagged off but the majority ........ but money was spend ...maybe not enough BUT the club was a business

As for managers ...well I don't recall ever being in this mess ...maybe I will be proved wrong and all will be revealed ...but I doubt it somehow

I am basically very disappointed with whats going on as RL/PF I am afraid are just not football people

But Doug would not have allowed this to happen ...yes he had experience of managers but the club have had a few in past year and we don't seem to learn

It was clear to all that GH was going so why was a manager not lined up

Does this show that Doug did have some idea after all?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: not3bad on June 13, 2011, 07:54:19 PM
As for managers ...well I don't recall ever being in this mess ...maybe I will be proved wrong and all will be revealed ...but I doubt it somehow

So it's taken longer than you'd like and therefore it's not going to happen?  Is that your logic?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: paul_e on June 13, 2011, 07:54:48 PM
But, what have they actually done wrong?

Have they employed the wrong person?
Have they left it so long that we've missed out on transfer targets?
Have they failed to sell the club to the person they actually want as first choice?
Have they failed to tell the press who they're interested in and who is favourite?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: LeeB on June 13, 2011, 07:56:20 PM
Is this the first "It was better under Doug" post?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Dave Clark Five on June 13, 2011, 07:58:00 PM
How far will this band wagon go? The wheels will fall off the others if any more jump aboard.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 13, 2011, 07:59:24 PM
Have you blocked out the mid 80s ?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: garyfouroaks on June 13, 2011, 08:03:11 PM
faulkner is not up to it.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2011, 08:03:11 PM
No way would Doug have allowed this to happen, he'd have appointed Southgate or Grant by now.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: AV82EC on June 13, 2011, 08:56:33 PM
Fucking Hell. 

<goes to cupboard to get gun>
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on June 13, 2011, 09:21:05 PM
Yes, Doug didn't appoint any shit managers and always made the right choice. Next you'll be telling me it was all down to Doug that MON came to Villa in the first place...
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Witton Warrior on June 13, 2011, 09:22:42 PM
Doug was always decisive

He was also considerably richer than yo!
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave shelley on June 13, 2011, 09:28:24 PM
Doug was always decisive

He was also considerably richer than yo!

What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Tokyo Sexwhale on June 13, 2011, 09:29:28 PM
Good Appointments:  Graham Taylor I , Ron Atkinson, Brian Little, John Gregory, <ahem> Martin O'Neill

Godawful Appointments: Graham Turner, Billy McNeill, Jozef Venglos, Graham Taylor II, David O'Leary

So that's at best a 50% hit rate. 
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2011, 09:32:05 PM
Did he appoint Crowe and Saunders?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2011, 09:34:14 PM
Right, so that's:

Replacing a European Cup-winning manager with one whose biggest achievements had been with Shrewsbury Town, replacing him with a manager who the world and his dog knew was just killing time until he took over at Celtic, having the first English team back in Europe turned down by the boss of Bristol Rovers, introducing another manager to a press conference with the immortal words "Who knows who this is?" and his final sacking taking place against a backdrop of the commercial manager reading a type-written note from behind the locked North Stand gates.

I'm sure we all miss those days.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2011, 09:37:15 PM
In those days I had hair, I miss that.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave shelley on June 13, 2011, 09:41:03 PM
In those days I had hair, I miss that.
Me too.  I also miss seeing my knob.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Villanation on June 13, 2011, 09:46:11 PM
As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.

Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Eigentor on June 13, 2011, 09:49:32 PM
Was Deadly more decisive than Randy: definately, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

Overall, was Deadly a better chairman than Randy is: no way.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2011, 09:50:18 PM
As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.

Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.

That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Villanation on June 13, 2011, 09:59:42 PM
As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.

Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.

That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?

@dave. No question there are some massive grey area's around Dougies wheeling and dealings, hell as a kid i washed his Jag and he still owe's me the sheckles, the only point i was making is that in part, a pretty large part, Villa are what they are to some degree down to Mr Ellis. Thats the only point, and also, you have to say when Doug moved he moved fast, hiring and firing.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2011, 10:03:38 PM
Just out of interest, can anyone remember how much time there was between SGT1 leaving and BFR arriving, as that's about the longest gap I can remember us having between managers under Ellis? Mind you, as he got rid of so many (mutually of course!) mid season he usually had to act sharpish.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2011, 10:10:16 PM
Just out of interest, can anyone remember how much time there was between SGT1 leaving and BFR arriving, as that's about the longest gap I can remember us having between managers under Ellis? Mind you, as he got rid of so many (mutually of course!) mid season he usually had to act sharpish.

About eleven months - Dr Jo came in between.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2011, 10:13:21 PM
Just out of interest, can anyone remember how much time there was between SGT1 leaving and BFR arriving, as that's about the longest gap I can remember us having between managers under Ellis? Mind you, as he got rid of so many (mutually of course!) mid season he usually had to act sharpish.

About eleven months - Dr Jo came in between.

I meant Dr Jo and BFR!

Jeeze i'm a twat. Absolutely no idea why I typed SGT1. I blame the lack of hair affecting my brain.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2011, 10:16:24 PM
As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.

Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.

That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?

@dave. No question there are some massive grey area's around Dougies wheeling and dealings, hell as a kid i washed his Jag and he still owe's me the sheckles, the only point i was making is that in part, a pretty large part, Villa are what they are to some degree down to Mr Ellis. Thats the only point, and also, you have to say when Doug moved he moved fast, hiring and firing.

Except when he sacked Barton and the job was touted around Europe before we finally got Turner six weeks later. Sir Graham left in May 1990 - after being turned down by Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis Dr Jo eventually arrived during the pre-season tour. 16 days (during the season) between BFR and Brian. That's not moving fast.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Ian. on June 13, 2011, 10:19:41 PM
Its not the first time we have been turned down then?

Out of curiosity did we actually call off an appointment with McClaren due to fan power? Or is it the press (Sky Sports) actually making that one up?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: mozza on June 13, 2011, 10:20:02 PM
Doug had Steve Stride whereas Randy has Paul Faulkner ?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Villanation on June 13, 2011, 10:29:15 PM
As much as people like to knock Doug Ellis, me included at times, he left the club in very good shape that RL has benefited from and IMO he sold Villa at far less a value than it was really worth, even then IMO it was his concern that he found the right man rather than someone that would take advantage of the club, think that counted more than profit.

Was Doug Ellis more switched on than RL, I doubt very much we would have gone this long without direction, that said Randy Lerner has only been here a few years so jury is still out, I think the point about the good times and the bad times is right, its now we will see the real value of the chairman.

That's some revisionism there. At the moment there's uproar because we're linked with the former Small Heath manager. And where did Doug start his football directorship life?

@dave. No question there are some massive grey area's around Dougies wheeling and dealings, hell as a kid i washed his Jag and he still owe's me the sheckles, the only point i was making is that in part, a pretty large part, Villa are what they are to some degree down to Mr Ellis. Thats the only point, and also, you have to say when Doug moved he moved fast, hiring and firing.

Except when he sacked Barton and the job was touted around Europe before we finally got Turner six weeks later. Sir Graham left in May 1990 - after being turned down by Joe Jordan and Gerry Francis Dr Jo eventually arrived during the pre-season tour. 16 days (during the season) between BFR and Brian. That's not moving fast.

This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82  :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2011, 10:31:31 PM
This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82  :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.

He did it to make them relegated.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Villanation on June 13, 2011, 10:32:13 PM
This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82  :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.

He did it to make them relegated.

The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2011, 10:34:38 PM
This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82  :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.

He did it to make them relegated.

The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the team.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Fergal on June 13, 2011, 10:43:00 PM
Its not the first time we have been turned down then?

Out of curiosity did we actually call off an appointment with McClaren due to fan power? Or is it the press (Sky Sports) actually making that one up?
The press and Sky sports making stuff up? Never.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Diablo on June 13, 2011, 10:51:46 PM
Have to ask the question .....would we be in the position we are now in the Doug era?

Yes he got slagged off but the majority ........ but money was spend ...maybe not enough BUT the club was a business

As for managers ...well I don't recall ever being in this mess ...maybe I will be proved wrong and all will be revealed ...but I doubt it somehow

I am basically very disappointed with whats going on as RL/PF I am afraid are just not football people

But Doug would not have allowed this to happen ...yes he had experience of managers but the club have had a few in past year and we don't seem to learn

It was clear to all that GH was going so why was a manager not lined up

Does this show that Doug did have some idea after all?

Oh God!! This is insane
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 13, 2011, 11:08:38 PM
This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82  :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.

He did it to make them relegated.

The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the team.

Why would/did he do that?

I'm not arguing, incidentally, just curious. It was too young to care about what happened off the pitch, it took me a long time just to find out what a Mita Copier was.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2011, 11:09:35 PM
This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82  :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.

He did it to make them relegated.

The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the team.

Why would/did he do that?

I'm not arguing, incidentally, just curious. It was too young to care about what happened off the pitch, it took me a long time just to find out what a Mita Copier was.

Because they were there, and he wasn't.
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 13, 2011, 11:18:26 PM
This is true, but generally Ellis was a decisive person as many ex managers would say, I suppose the real cross Doug has to live with is the period between 79 and 82  :) unfortunate that, but he didn't shrink from taking decisions, I remember when he wrecked the squad in the middle/ late eighties and we got relagated, but again his claim was he did that to make the club viable.

He did it to make them relegated.

The view from the terraces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the team.

Why would/did he do that?

I'm not arguing, incidentally, just curious. It was too young to care about what happened off the pitch, it took me a long time just to find out what a Mita Copier was.

Because they were there, and he wasn't.

Oh, I've heard that one. Sorry, I thought there was some additional subterfuge I ought to have known about.

I guess this lust for secrets is infectious!
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: pooligan on June 14, 2011, 07:57:15 AM
Brave man Leicester Villian daring to queston RL/PF. They cant do any wrong in many peoples eyes posting on here it seems
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Witton Warrior on June 14, 2011, 06:56:26 PM
Doug was always decisive

He was also considerably richer than yo!

What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.

Hi Dave

Apologies for not answering quicker.

The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.

The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.

That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.

WW

*Harry Enfield and Chums I think
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave shelley on June 14, 2011, 09:25:29 PM
Doug was always decisive

He was also considerably richer than yo!



What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.

Hi Dave

Apologies for not answering quicker.

The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.

The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.

That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.

WW

*Harry Enfield and Chums I think

Perhaps if you had added an emoticon at the end of the sentence or alluded to one then any misunderstanding would have been avoided.  Just an obervation mind.
;)
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Witton Warrior on June 14, 2011, 09:45:11 PM
Doug was always decisive

He was also considerably richer than yo!



What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.

Hi Dave

Apologies for not answering quicker.

The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.

The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.

That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.

WW

*Harry Enfield and Chums I think

Perhaps if you had added an emoticon at the end of the sentence or alluded to one then any misunderstanding would have been avoided.  Just an obervation mind.
;)

Point taken Dave - don't want people jumping to conclusions ;-)

WW
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: dave shelley on June 14, 2011, 09:48:31 PM
Doug was always decisive

He was also considerably richer than yo!



What the fucking hell does anyones bank balance have to do with this debate. That is personal. Out of order.

Hi Dave

Apologies for not answering quicker.

The first line is an observation pertaining to the thread.

The second is an allusion to a popular culture "character" from a TV series* that many Villa fans liked to think had more than a passing resemblance to Ellis although that was simply for comic effect - a bit like why I wrote it in the present times of heightened emotional responses.

That's what the fucking hell it's about Dave.

WW

*Harry Enfield and Chums I think

Perhaps if you had added an emoticon at the end of the sentence or alluded to one then any misunderstanding would have been avoided.  Just an obervation mind.
;)

Point taken Dave - don't want people jumping to conclusions ;-)

WW

Cool.
Title: What if
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on June 15, 2011, 09:42:29 AM
Randy Lerner decided to ask Deadly Doug to choose the manager. Who would Deadly appoint this time.
Title: Re: What if
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on June 15, 2011, 09:44:22 AM
Hard to say.
I'm betting he wouldn't appoint Fucking Eck.
Title: Re: What if
Post by: TonyD on June 15, 2011, 09:45:56 AM
Hard to say.
I'm betting he wouldn't appoint Fucking Eck.

Hughes or Grayson.   
Title: Re: What if
Post by: *shellac* on June 15, 2011, 09:55:20 AM
Allardyce.
Title: Re: What if
Post by: Ennis on June 15, 2011, 09:55:45 AM
do we really need another thread?
Title: Re: Deadly Doug & Managers
Post by: Damo70 on June 15, 2011, 11:43:56 AM
I would suggest that RL's decision to appoint GH when the season was underway and the pressure was on was slightly better than Doug's appointment of McNeil in similar circumstances in '86.
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