Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: whydelilah on June 02, 2011, 12:02:28 PM
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Just a quick message, we (Stoke City) have been linked with NRC.
Not sure how much truth is in it but just thought I'd ask for your opinions of him?
What he's good at, what he's not so good at, would he be a good addition for us, would you be happy to see him go etc?
Cheers
WD
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He's a very limited footballer indeed, but sometimes you need a niggly fecker (obviously, I'm preaching to the converted here) and therefore serves a purpose. Did well for us towards the end of the season.
Gives the impression he thinks he's a lot better than he actually is.
Points a lot.
Organises team huddles.
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He's a terrier. Breaks up attacks, wins the ball, never stops working. His engine is fantastic. His passing is okay but not great, and his ability on the ball and getting forward is limited. However, at West Ham he was more forward-thinking so he must be capable of reverting to his box-to-box style. Personally? I'm gutted he's gone. His attitude was fantastic on the pitch, one of the most vocal players I've ever seen - can drive teams on.
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He's a terrier. Breaks up attacks, wins the ball, never stops working. His engine is fantastic. His passing is okay but not great, and his ability on the ball and getting forward is limited. However, at West Ham he was more forward-thinking so he must be capable of reverting to his box-to-box style. Personally? I'm gutted he's gone. His attitude was fantastic on the pitch, one of the most vocal players I've ever seen - can drive teams on.
Sounds positive.
That was the perception I had of him, from the outside looking in.
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As he plays in midfield, I wouldn't have thought it was of any relevance to Stoke as to what he is like as a player surely? Oh and he can't pass so that should suit you well ;-)
Sorry, I have a lot of time for Stoke as a club and know some great fans who follow them, but I find their style of football utterly repellant
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As he plays in midfield, I wouldn't have thought it was of any relevance to Stoke as to what he is like as a player surely? Oh and he can't pass so that should suit you well ;-)
Sorry, I have a lot of time for Stoke as a club and know some great fans who follow them, but I find their style of football utterly repellant
As time has gone on our style of play as slowly improved.
Admittedly its not the most "aesthetically pleasing" in the league but it is effective.
We now deploy 2 out and out, old fashioned style wingers so we don't always go down the direct route.
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He's a terrier. Breaks up attacks, wins the ball, never stops working. His engine is fantastic. His passing is okay but not great, and his ability on the ball and getting forward is limited. However, at West Ham he was more forward-thinking so he must be capable of reverting to his box-to-box style. Personally? I'm gutted he's gone. His attitude was fantastic on the pitch, one of the most vocal players I've ever seen - can drive teams on.
Sounds positive.
That was the perception I had of him, from the outside looking in.
I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority though. A lot will come in and say he's too limited, can't pass, doesn't do enough. But I guess it depends how you look at it. I hope he goes to you, I like Stoke and he'd be a good fit.
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If Nigel is told to just sit in front of the back four and protect it he's a very valuable asset. It's when he tries to be a rampaging box to box midfielder that his limitations become a problem.
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He's also a a natural leader and captain..
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As he plays in midfield, I wouldn't have thought it was of any relevance to Stoke as to what he is like as a player surely? Oh and he can't pass so that should suit you well ;-)
Sorry, I have a lot of time for Stoke as a club and know some great fans who follow them, but I find their style of football utterly repellant
As time has gone on our style of play as slowly improved.
Admittedly its not the most "aesthetically pleasing" in the league but it is effective.
We now deploy 2 out and out, old fashioned style wingers so we don't always go down the direct route.
I don't think it was the way you played per se which wound people up when we played you this year, it was the gamesmanship more than anything.
Although we're used to the winger thing ;)
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As he plays in midfield, I wouldn't have thought it was of any relevance to Stoke as to what he is like as a player surely? Oh and he can't pass so that should suit you well ;-)
Sorry, I have a lot of time for Stoke as a club and know some great fans who follow them, but I find their style of football utterly repellant
As time has gone on our style of play as slowly improved.
Could have fooled me after the match at Villa Park.
NRC is not really a dirty player or a timewaster, so i'm not sure how much use he'd be to you.
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As he plays in midfield, I wouldn't have thought it was of any relevance to Stoke as to what he is like as a player surely? Oh and he can't pass so that should suit you well ;-)
Sorry, I have a lot of time for Stoke as a club and know some great fans who follow them, but I find their style of football utterly repellant
As time as gone out out style of play as slowly improved.
Admittedly its not the most "aesthetically pleasing" in the league but it is effective.
We now deploy 2 out and out, old fashioned style wingers so we don't always go down the direct route.
Well, we shall agree to differ slightly and I have no wish to argue with decent fans from other clubs like your good self! Coker, if he comes, will probably be a younger version of Glen Whelan I suspect. I am not a great fan of his (Coker) - in fact, I think he is bloody useless - so perhaps my view is not entirely balanced! I could certainly envisage him at Stoke
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he has a work rate that is excellent, and can break up play... has pace, is reasonably strong and his engine is fantastic...
he does however, have poor decision making... with this he dwells on the ball too much and then has to rush a pass and that makes him look like he is a poor passer of the ball...
his touch isnt the greatest either and it sometimes seems like he has hexagonal shins and feet...
i like him because of his work rate and attitude, however, he is a limited footballer...
i do like the way that his potential targets that apparently included the likes of ac milan, have now been lowered to the likes of stoke...
so much for the hard ball contract negotiations, eh okey cokey? time to fire the agent, me thinks...
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He'd be a good signing for you (or indeed, many of the PL clubs) and I can see why you'd be interested. We should have kept him, in my opinion - one of our better players last season and it means we have yet another replacement to find in what will already be a busy summer. But still, we debated the merits of NRC long and hard recently so I'd best not open that can of worms up again.
If Pulis makes sure Nigel does what he's good at - winning the ball, making short, simple passes, he'll be a very effective player for Stoke. Nigel himself likes to think he's an attacking box-to-box sort, but he's not, he doesn't have any composure in front of goal and his final ball isn't great. But he'll run all day, lead the side, and he's still relatively young at 26/7.
Go for it. Wages might be an issue, however.
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As he plays in midfield, I wouldn't have thought it was of any relevance to Stoke as to what he is like as a player surely? Oh and he can't pass so that should suit you well ;-)
Sorry, I have a lot of time for Stoke as a club and know some great fans who follow them, but I find their style of football utterly repellant
As time has gone on our style of play as slowly improved.
Could have fooled me after the match at Villa Park.
NRC is not really a dirty player or a timewaster, so i'm not sure how much use he'd be to you.
Its not really fair to take one match on its own as an example of how a team plays.
We have been pretty poor away from home this Season but on the whole our style of play has improved.
We do need to step it up next season though, especially away from home.
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If NRC was asking for too much money for us to be able to offer him, with all due respect I doubt he'll end up at sturk.
and if he did I'd be disappointed in him.
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I'd imagine we're one of only a few teams in this league that is financially sound and has plenty of cash available for transfers and wages.
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He's a terrier. Breaks up attacks, wins the ball, never stops working. His engine is fantastic.
..... then more often than not gives the ball back to the opposition.
In fairness to him he did finish the season well for us, and good luck to him wherever he chooses to go, but I'd have been disappointed if he'd still been in our midfield next season.
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For giving a team more robustness Reo-Coker is great. Didn't have much to offer in the last 1/3 though.
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There are a few players in our team who put their heart and soul into the full 90 minutes of a game; NRC is one of them. We always seemed to be stronger when he was playing as he's a real battler. He has a tendency to get caught in possession and some of his passing is not the best, but loved his full-blooded attitude and his determination, a real team player. I was surprised and sad to see him go.
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Not a technically gifted player but that is not a quality TP likes anyway. If you can sign 3 or 4 NRC type players (his ability level not position) this summer you can expect another year in the prem in 12 months time. Limited but always gives 100% and is worth a place in most premier league squads.
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As he plays in midfield, I wouldn't have thought it was of any relevance to Stoke as to what he is like as a player surely? Oh and he can't pass so that should suit you well ;-)
Sorry, I have a lot of time for Stoke as a club and know some great fans who follow them, but I find their style of football utterly repellant
As time has gone on our style of play as slowly improved.
Could have fooled me after the match at Villa Park.
NRC is not really a dirty player or a timewaster, so i'm not sure how much use he'd be to you.
Its not really fair to take one match on its own as an example of how a team plays.
We have been pretty poor away from home this Season but on the whole our style of play has improved.
We do need to step it up next season though, especially away from home.
Quite easily the most dirty, boring and totally niggly "football" team at VP this season. 90 minutes that felt like 3 days. Rugby tactics, in a similar vein to Wimbledon under Bassett. Horrible.
Reo Coker is a good player IMO.
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You didn't win then? ;)
We're used to the stick, it's nothing new.
Thanks for the info on NRC.
All the best.
WD
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You didn't win then? ;)
We're used to the stick, it's nothing new.
Thanks for the info on NRC.
All the best.
WD
To be fair, there were lots of other matches we didn't win last season, but none of them arouse such annoyance as the Stoke one.
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Pulis often rubs people up the wrong way, like I say, we're used to the stick from other fans and the media by now. Its nothing new; water off a ducks back.
We can play some very good stuff on our day. As we did in the Semi at Wembley and just before that when we blew Arsenal away at The Brit.
We can also do the ugly stuff and grind out points, its all about mixing it up.
If West Ham, Blackpool and Brum had been capable of the same they might have stopped up.
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I was cheering you on at Wembley mate. I think Pulis has done a hell of a job, and is developing your team well. I think the finances you have set up is admirable. Reo-Coker. If he signs, he will achieve cult status with most of your fans, and you will remain baffled as to why that is. He has a great work rate. Thats the good news sorted.....
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He's an athlete first, footballer second. If you could merge Ireland's ability with Reo Coker's energy and commitment you'd have the ideal PL player.
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I was cheering you on at Wembley mate. I think Pulis has done a hell of a job, and is developing your team well. I think the finances you have set up is admirable. Reo-Coker. If he signs, he will achieve cult status with most of your fans, and you will remain baffled as to why that is. He has a great work rate. Thats the good news sorted.....
Cheers mate.
Now the bad news. . . .!!
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He was our second best player last season. Unless we replace him, we'll miss him. Expect to pay him £50k a week.
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He was our second best player last season. Unless we replace him, we'll miss him. Expect to pay him £50k a week.
We've already got a few on 50k+ a week so that shouldn't be a problem, especially if he's on a free.
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Would be sursprised if he ends up at Stoke as he is a midfielder and they are not used at Stoke whenever i have watched them play.
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NRC, who's a born leader, plays the same, week in, week out, always 100% commitment and determination with excellent defensive qualities but limited attacking ability. You only realise how valuable these sort of players are when they don't play for you anymore!
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He'll be a good player for you and I can easily see him playing for you next season.
I'm not his biggest fan but he's the kind of player all teams need. A hard worker who will break up attacks as long as you don't expect him to dazzle all as a play maker or ever score a goal you will be more than satisfied.
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he has a work rate that is excellent, and can break up play... has pace, is reasonably strong and his engine is fantastic...
he does however, have poor decision making... with this he dwells on the ball too much and then has to rush a pass and that makes him look like he is a poor passer of the ball...
his touch isnt the greatest either and it sometimes seems like he has hexagonal shins and feet...
i like him because of his work rate and attitude, however, he is a limited footballer...
i do like the way that his potential targets that apparently included the likes of ac milan, have now been lowered to the likes of stoke...
so much for the hard ball contract negotiations, eh okey cokey? time to fire the agent, me thinks...
He wont end up at a bigger club than us. QPR maybe
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Hard worker, breaks up opposition attacks and the sort of player every team needs. I would have been happy for him to stay.
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Why has he left? What were the circumstances surrounding his departure, out of interest?
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He'll be a good player for you and I can easily see him playing for you next season.
I'm not his biggest fan but he's the kind of player all teams need. A hard worker who will break up attacks as long as you don't expect him to dazzle all as a play maker or ever score a goal you will be more than satisfied.
You just know, where ever he ends up, he'll score on his debut. Bloody typical.
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too good for stoke - he wont go there im pretty sure.
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He left because he wasn't making as much money as the likes of Petrov and Makoun by the sounds of it. He was one of our better players last season and he will be missed, he lets himself down with his decision making, passese 1 v 1's he doesn't cover himself in glory.
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i followed a black Merc ML with the reg no R C04KER in MK today, got to be his hasnt it,
he wasnt in it though , couple of blond babes actually
i dont think he's going back to MK Dons though !!
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Average. Has a lot of fans, but he is very limited footballer. Great at breaking up play, but he gives the ball straight back to the opposition anyway. Thinks he's much better than he actually is.
I'm not unhappy he's gone.
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NRC, who's a born leader, plays the same, week in, week out, always 100% commitment and determination with excellent defensive qualities but limited attacking ability. You only realise how valuable these sort of players are when they don't play for you anymore!
He didn't play much for us for the best part of 2 seasons & we didn't miss him much then. He upped his game in the last few weeks, but isn't worth what he was getting, never mind more. I can't believe people are remotely bothered about NRC! Let's see where he ends up, that will show how much other clubs see him. My guess is Blackburn.
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He wanted massive wages and in truth was not worth them, although it would have been cheaper for us to pay them than replace him.
As for the stick, your display at Villa Park deserved instant points deduction. Seriously, as soon as Delap went off I have never seen a side so devoid of what to do next. You won a throw and took about 3 minutes to take it, as it was a shock for another player to have to actually throw the ball in. About 4 had a look before nominating one to give it a try. He threw it straight to us.
Then there was the timewasting, the niggly fouls and the general detestable bastard that is Jermaine Scum Bag from the shit Pennant.
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Why has he left? What were the circumstances surrounding his departure, out of interest?
As has been said, he was asking for silly money. He sees this move as his 'big one' - he right in the sweet spot in terms of his age and theoretically should be at the peak of his game. He thought that this meant he could demand £50k a week or whatever the silly amount was and we'd pay it. I don't think Stoke have the ability to pay those sort of wages so I'd be surprised if he ends up there unless he realises no one will pay that for him.
If he does get past the money then I think he'll do alright in the Stoke team. When we were pushing for top 4 he wasn't good enough. Last year we were shite and he did OK. I'd have been happy to keep him as a squad player but only on squad player wages.
Commitment and energy can't be faulted. Talent isn't his thing though.
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Isn't he a little short for a Stoketrooper?
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Isn't he a little short for a Stoketrooper?
I'm Nigel Reo Coker and I am here to rescue your season!
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One of the most defensive minded centre mids ive ever seen.
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I think he may be suprised that clubs are not knocking his door down for a meagre 60.000 a week. Silly boy.
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If Nigel is told to just sit in front of the back four and protect it he's a very valuable asset.
Wouldn't agree with that John.
Though improved, his passing and basic control are too to erratic for that role. Didn't we actually try it for a while back in 2007?
For me, he's best when he's given licence to go out and disrupt the opposition further up the pitch. He has a decent turn of pace and can actually carry the ball out of danger well and shift momentum, he's just not particularly imaginative with the ball at his feet.
Some of his best form for us was right side of a midfield three. With good players around him and a manager that utilises his strengths, he'll be a decent asset for plenty of sides.
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Why has he left? What were the circumstances surrounding his departure, out of interest?
Wanted parity with some of our better earners.
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Average. Has a lot of fans, but he is very limited footballer. Great at breaking up play, but he gives the ball straight back to the opposition anyway.
Agreed but then last season he really stepped up at level, improved his passing and was consistantly one of our better performers.
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Would be for anyone 12th or below, real battler but his overall technique is average & nt good enough for the top half clubs
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Said it before, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Tottingham.
Selling Palacios for a decent fee and getting Nige for nowt, it would be Levy all over. 'arry has tried to sign him a few times before too.
He wouldn't be a fixture in the side, but for specific games he'd be useful.
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If it's energy and intensity you want, then Reo's your man. Tenacious as a pit bull on crack and will not disappear when the going gets tough.
What you don't need is Reo thinking he is Iniesta and fucking up all your attacking moves. That can get monotonous and make the veins near your temple throb.
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That is part of the problem alright.
Didn't he once describe himself as a box to box attacking midfielder?
Maybe he was once, on Hackney Marshes.
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He'd fit in brilliantly at Stoke that's for certain.
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He wanted massive wages and in truth was not worth them, although it would have been cheaper for us to pay them than replace him.
As for the stick, your display at Villa Park deserved instant points deduction. Seriously, as soon as Delap went off I have never seen a side so devoid of what to do next. You won a throw and took about 3 minutes to take it, as it was a shock for another player to have to actually throw the ball in. About 4 had a look before nominating one to give it a try. He threw it straight to us.
Then there was the timewasting, the niggly fouls and the general detestable bastard that is Jermaine Scum Bag from the shit Pennant.
Like I've said, we've had these tantrum style rants aimed at us before. Its nothing new.
Usually always by teams that are unable to beat us.
Funny that.
Probably should spend more time working out a way to beat us than moaning like a spoilt child that doesn't get their way. ;-)
All the best.
WD
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That is part of the problem alright.
Didn't he once describe himself as a box to box attacking midfielder?
Maybe he was once, on Hackney Marshes.
As I recall it, when he signed him and MON told him he'd be protecting the back 4 he said something similar. The reply he got was "How many goals did you score last season?", which was 1 I think.
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or, its the comments of someone bored to death at games involving the two clubs?
i never forget the pigeons camped in our half and your fans cheering as you got near the halfway line a couple of seasons back...
how that game ended 2-2, after our manager decided to sit on a 2-0 lead, only that clown o'neill knows...
some your fans paying for a couple of pints by throwing coins at us from the safety of the coach park after that debacle was thoughtful though...
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Said it before, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Tottingham.
Selling Palacios for a decent fee and getting Nige for nowt, it would be Levy all over. 'arry has tried to sign him a few times before too.
Yup, I think that's a definite possibility.
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or, its the comments of someone bored to death at games involving the two clubs?
i never forget the pigeons camped in our half and your fans cheering as you got near the halfway line a couple of seasons back...
how that game ended 2-2, after our manager decided to sit on a 2-0 lead, only that clown o'neill knows...
some your fans paying for a couple of pints by throwing coins at us from the safety of the coach park after that debacle was thoughtful though...
How many times have you beaten our joke of a side over the past couple of seasons?
;-)
WD
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You're right, I reckon it will stay that way for the couple of games until you go back down.
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or, its the comments of someone bored to death at games involving the two clubs?
i never forget the pigeons camped in our half and your fans cheering as you got near the halfway line a couple of seasons back...
how that game ended 2-2, after our manager decided to sit on a 2-0 lead, only that clown o'neill knows...
some your fans paying for a couple of pints by throwing coins at us from the safety of the coach park after that debacle was thoughtful though...
How many times have you beaten our joke of a side over the past couple of seasons?
;-)
WD
if you think you are a "joke of a side" then that is your issue...
i never said you were a joke, i simply commented on the games between us being boring, and amusing incidents involved in one game in particular...
for the record though, in the timeframe you selected, its 1 win a piece... (a couple is two right?) ;-)
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Fair play cocker.
I thought the 2-2 match at your place was quite entertaining after we showed our never-say-die spirit once again.
I also thought this seasons match at The Brit was pretty good, again coming from behind to win 2-1.
I enjoyed the 3-2 win at our place 3 years ago too, another last minute goal sealing victory.
I have very fond memories of our meetings actually.
WD
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i dont, they are usually awful games...
one thing that has always irritated me about our games, is our inability to defend that god damn throw in and conceding late goals...
as for the 2-2, i still cant wipe from my mind the pigeons and cheering when you got near the half way line... that was hilarious... i blame the manager for sitting deep near the end of that game to protect the lead, as when we went forward, you werent interested in getting forward yourself... would have been much better idea to attack you, and you would have defended for us...
o'neill was pretty clueless tactically at times though...
as for why okey cokey left, he wanted too much money... had a bit of form after coming back into the team, and all of a sudden, expected to be on a par with the highest earners at the club... for a limited footballer, no matter how good his attitude and work rate is, that was never going to happen...
i personally, think he was badly treated at the villa by o'neill... he played him out of position, and then dropped him when his form inevitably dropped...
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Thats what makes it the game we all love, it'd be boring if we all had the same opinions.
When Whelan smacked home that corker of a shot from 20+ yards in the dying minutes, well, that was one of the stand out moments since we returned to the PL. I still remember the scenes and the celebrations like it was yesterday.
Good times.
WD
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i thought it was shawcross?
maybe he got the first...
the pigeons might have confused my thinking...
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i thought it was shawcross?
maybe he got the first...
the pigeons might have confused my thinking...
Shawcross headed home the first, Whelan smashed home the equaliser.
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makes sense... those god damn pigeons...
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Funny story.
After the match Pulis tried to bring one of those Pigeons to the club on loan, to sit in front of the back 4, but the pigeon said he’d never consider signing for a team that plays the way that Stoke does.
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wise pigeon...
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Never would have worked out anyway, he wasn't 6ft+..... or black.
Couldn't throw it very far either.
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anyway, nigel okey-cokey anyone?
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Stoke City - Long throws, free kicks, corners, and hoofing the ball up the pitch - an absolute abomination of a football team. Up there with Wimbledon of old as the worst football teams ever to be seen in the top flight of English football.
They'll be relegated eventually.
Anyway, Reo Coker.....
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Yep, hate to Stoke-bash but the games against them have been some of the dullest games I've ever had the misfortune to watch. Maybe it's just that our style (whatever that is) is so easily nullified, I wouldn't know how they look against other teams as, based on our own ties, I avoid watching them at all costs.
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Stoke City - Long throws, free kicks, corners, and hoofing the ball up the pitch - an absolute abomination of a football team. Up there with Wimbledon of old as the worst football teams ever to be seen in the top flight of English football.
They'll be relegated eventually.
Anyway, Reo Coker.....
Outplayed Bolton and Arsenal though in recent weeks.
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Indeed, smashed 'em both :D
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Stoke are under no obligation to entertain opposition fans though, are they?
If you look at that squad you'd have to say that Pulis is over achieving big time to make them comfortably mid table in the top flight, for a few seasons in a row now.
None of our recent managers would know anything about overachieving.
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Are a fair bit ahead of Roberto Martinez's Wigan this season and last. Yes the guy being linked with the Villa job. Stoke's method of football has evolved somewhat but I dont think Delap would get a game at any other EPL team. Wilkinson and Higginbottom as full backs dont exactly encourage keeping possession. Cant fault Pulis's results though.
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Stoke City - Long throws, free kicks, corners, and hoofing the ball up the pitch - an absolute abomination of a football team. Up there with Wimbledon of old as the worst football teams ever to be seen in the top flight of English football.
They'll be relegated eventually.
Anyway, Reo Coker.....
Outplayed Bolton and Arsenal though in recent weeks.
Wimbledon outplayed teams occasionally as well.
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Stoke are under no obligation to entertain opposition fans though, are they?
If you look at that squad you'd have to say that Pulis is over achieving big time to make them comfortably mid table in the top flight, for a few seasons in a row now.
None of our recent managers would know anything about overachieving.
Pulis is doing a good job there, look at what he's achieved.
They're playing the way that suits them, and it has worked. In fact, when Wenger moans about the way they play, I'm always on Stoke's side, because as whydelilah said, it is their job to find a way to beat Stoke.
However, that's one thing.
The fact that I'd rather pluck my eyeballs out than watch that horrible combination of 1970s football / gamesmanship is a different one altogether.
It's not about the fact we failed to beat Stoke, either. As i said on the last page, we failed to beat lots of other teams this season as well.
It's about the fact they're horrible to watch. Their choice entirely to play like that, but it is still horrible anti-football nonsense.
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Stoke are under no obligation to entertain opposition fans though, are they?
If you look at that squad you'd have to say that Pulis is over achieving big time to make them comfortably mid table in the top flight, for a few seasons in a row now.
None of our recent managers would know anything about overachieving.
Pulis is doing a good job there, look at what he's achieved.
They're playing the way that suits them, and it has worked. In fact, when Wenger moans about the way they play, I'm always on Stoke's side, because as whydelilah said, it is their job to find a way to beat Stoke.
However, that's one thing.
The fact that I'd rather pluck my eyeballs out than watch that horrible combination of 1970s football / gamesmanship is a different one altogether.
It's not about the fact we failed to beat Stoke, either. As i said on the last page, we failed to beat lots of other teams this season as well.
It's about the fact they're horrible to watch. Their choice entirely to play like that, but it is still horrible anti-football nonsense.
Indeed. It's not out of spite that I'd describe them as being shite to watch, it's just true
(in my opinion of course). Football ia supposed to be entertainment isn't it? Otherwise what is the point of it all? Grim loyalty maybe?
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Stoke are under no obligation to entertain opposition fans though, are they?
If you look at that squad you'd have to say that Pulis is over achieving big time to make them comfortably mid table in the top flight, for a few seasons in a row now.
None of our recent managers would know anything about overachieving.
Pulis is doing a good job there, look at what he's achieved.
They're playing the way that suits them, and it has worked. In fact, when Wenger moans about the way they play, I'm always on Stoke's side, because as whydelilah said, it is their job to find a way to beat Stoke.
However, that's one thing.
The fact that I'd rather pluck my eyeballs out than watch that horrible combination of 1970s football / gamesmanship is a different one altogether.
It's not about the fact we failed to beat Stoke, either. As i said on the last page, we failed to beat lots of other teams this season as well.
It's about the fact they're horrible to watch. Their choice entirely to play like that, but it is still horrible anti-football nonsense.
Indeed. It's not out of spite that I'd describe them as being shite to watch, it's just true
(in my opinion of course). Football ia supposed to be entertainment isn't it? Otherwise what is the point of it all? Grim loyalty maybe?
Yes. That game was the antithesis of anything that could remotely be called entertainment. And it goes beyond what is called styles of playing. Nor is is just sour grapes because we did not get a favourable result: quite a few direct/log ball teams have beaten us over the years at VP, and many of those games have been interesting to watch.
The last time I saw a game at VP in which the opposition started time wasting and deliberately breaking up play almost from the start was against Southgtate's Middlesbro, and I don't think they would have been considered a long ball team at the time.
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One of the things that makes the English game what it is, is the stamina required to overcome the many obstacles a season presents. No winter breaks, in fact an increase in the number of games played over the winter months, bad weather, relentless games as injuries pile up, many differences in grounds, fan bases, and a wide range of footballing styles.
Stoke present a formidable obstacle for many "bigger clubs" not many of the other clubs like them because the way the team play and the atmosphere created by their fans. While their timewasting tactics is appalling and I feel bad for te game in general,they don't owe opposition fans anything, we only have to watch them twice a year. Their own fans are who they answer to and their passion and attendances don't appear to be dwindling. Looked down on by many and a banana skin for teams that underestimate them
Reminds me a lot of how the european sides in the 70's and early 80's :) would dismiss the English clubs as technically weak. May well have had a point and our game may have improved technically with the introduction of foreign managers and players but the English clubs sure had a good record through that period due to their ability to close down quickly and run for 90 minutes.
So yes Reo Coker is not the most technically gifted but does have some qualities that make a team difficult to beat. Is he worth his pay demands, can't see Pullis going for that.
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Message to Reo`s agent. Where are all these italian Champions League teams after him ? Juventus, Inter, porky pies ?? ........
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All this talk about "gamesmanship" - can you please clarify what you mean?
I'd say we are one of the most honest teams in the league. I'm not saying we are squaky clean, Pennant certainly knows how to win a free kick when he wants and I'm sure at times others perhaps have gone down a tad easy but on the whole our players adopt a "stay on your feet" philosophy.
I've seen plenty of teams and players dive and roll around like they've been shot since we've been in this league and I absolutely hate those kind of antics. I can honestly say I haven't seen a Stoke player blatantly dive since we've been in this league. As I said above, there may be some incidents where you can argue somebody has gone down too easily but thats completely different to diving and trying to con the ref etc.
I absolutely detest the whole diving/surrounding refs/play acting ploys that seem to be more commonplace in the game today and I can honestly say, in my opinion of course, that as a team we don't buy into that and don't use such tactics as gamesmanship.
You can slate us all day long if you like for our style of play (heaven knows we are used to that) but don't compare us to the Arsenal/Man Utd/Chelsea/Barcelona's of this world that make you sick to the back teeth with some of the "tacticts" they use.
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Time wasting for the whole 90 minutes. Taking minutes over every dead ball; throws and goal kicks in particular. In effect trying to kill the game, to stop any football being played. You were fortunte that you had a weak and complicit referee who did next to fuck all about it. He finally booked your keeper after about 80 minutes when he could have done it numerous times before that but if he had he might have had to send him off eventually and lacked the bottle.
Each time Delap winds up for one of his throws the ref allows him to wait while the centre haldfs slowly lumber up field yet if a full back took as long over a defensive throw he'd get warned.
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USING A FUCKING TOWEL ON THE FUCKING BALL!
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I agree with the throw in point.
It does take longer than most other teams as in effect it is a corner/set piece for us so we have to wait for the big guns at the back to come up.
I have to say that for 99% of games we don't set out from the first whistle to drag things out and take our time over everything possible. I'm sure, as every other team in the world, we've done it towards the end of games if we are trying to protect a lead or play out for a point etc.
As fans we wouldn't accept that kind of tactic from start to finish, game in game out.
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USING A FUCKING TOWEL ON THE FUCKING BALL!
Not really gamesmanship though is it?
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All this arguing on a thread about a player who you have no chance of signing.
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I'd definitely say we have a chance if Pulis is genuinely interested in NRC.
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USING A FUCKING TOWEL ON THE FUCKING BALL!
Not really gamesmanship though is it?
It's fannying about of the highest order. Did Sir Stanley have his ball sent over after a blow-dry? Tsk!
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There's much worse going on in the game today.
Diving, surrounding the ref etc.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it squire.
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Stoke's a shitehole and their Club, fanbase, manager and team are totally representitive of that.
Don't mind 'em for their style of football, quite respect it in a way. Pennant's a twat (saying that, my halls at Uni. were located in his local area and lets just say I sympathise with him) but a fine winger on his day, I'd like Huth at the Villa and Begovic will be a fine 'keeper.
It's a shame they're wasted at Stoke.
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Stoke's a shitehole and their Club, fanbase, manager and team are totally representitive of that.
Did you pick your knuckles up from the floor to type that?
Bless.
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Stoke's a shitehole and their Club, fanbase, manager and team are totally representitive of that.
Did you pick your knuckles up from the floor to type that?
Bless.
I've got no particular axe to grind with Stoke City FC, I don't like their tactics, but they've done brilliantly to survive and thrive in the Premiership.
But it's undeniable that the area of Stoke is rancid.
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You guys do realise the part of the country that you are situated in, right?
;)
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USING A FUCKING TOWEL ON THE FUCKING BALL!
Not really gamesmanship though is it?
I'm sure there was a point in the match in Villa V Stoke when Stoke got two or three throw ins in reasonably quick succession, almost inside the same minute in fact, and yet Delap got that towell out for the same laborious preperation each time. When that happens it does seem to border on gamesmanship.
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You guys do realise the part of the country that you are situated in, right?
;)
Quite.
It's terrible, but Stoke makes it look like The Garden of Eden.
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You guys do realise the part of the country that you are situated in, right?
;)
Quite.
It's terrible, but Stoke makes it look like The Garden of Eden.
You should both be thankful you don't live in Wales. We're talking proper shit holes in there. Bangor and Merthyr Tidfull spring to mind.
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You guys do realise the part of the country that you are situated in, right?
;)
Quite.
It's terrible, but Stoke makes it look like The Garden of Eden.
Is it fuck terrible.
Stoke is, though.
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Agreed, its a fuck load worse than terrible.
Still, at least Brum ended up with a trophy, you may get some decent European sides descending on the area next season.
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blah blah blah me duck
(http://whatafy.com/content/attachments/89d1298219665-fishing.jpg)
fixed.
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Agreed, its a fuck load worse than terrible.
Still, at least Brum ended up with a trophy, you may get some decent European sides descending on the area next season.
What a shame I was actually rooting for you until your last post - thought you were handling the abuse and goading with wit and flair! i think NRC would do a great job for you - just don't let him shoot
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All this talk about "gamesmanship" - can you please clarify what you mean?
I'd say we are one of the most honest teams in the league. I'm not saying we are squaky clean, Pennant certainly knows how to win a free kick when he wants and I'm sure at times others perhaps have gone down a tad easy but on the whole our players adopt a "stay on your feet" philosophy.
I've seen plenty of teams and players dive and roll around like they've been shot since we've been in this league and I absolutely hate those kind of antics. I can honestly say I haven't seen a Stoke player blatantly dive since we've been in this league. As I said above, there may be some incidents where you can argue somebody has gone down too easily but thats completely different to diving and trying to con the ref etc.
I absolutely detest the whole diving/surrounding refs/play acting ploys that seem to be more commonplace in the game today and I can honestly say, in my opinion of course, that as a team we don't buy into that and don't use such tactics as gamesmanship.
You can slate us all day long if you like for our style of play (heaven knows we are used to that) but don't compare us to the Arsenal/Man Utd/Chelsea/Barcelona's of this world that make you sick to the back teeth with some of the "tacticts" they use.
Watch you winner against us at your place. If you can swear on your loved ones lives that Pennant has not, a good foot from Petrov, dived on the floor, then you are a very deluded man.
The childish rant as you put it may seem that way, but having paid to watch that game it was 90 minutes I will never get back, largely through time wasting and spoiling from Stoke. Long ball up channel, a minute or so to take the resulting throw. Was your keeper not booked for time wasting too?? It was gamesmanship and cheating. Happy to be rough, happy to dive over, continuous one dimensional tactics.
And it is not my job to work out how to beat Stoke is it. If it were, I would almost certainly not be posting on here.
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Agreed, its a fuck load worse than terrible.
Still, at least Brum ended up with a trophy, you may get some decent European sides descending on the area next season.
Did you write that one yourself?
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You guys do realise the part of the country that you are situated in, right?
;)
Quite.
It's terrible, but Stoke makes it look like The Garden of Eden.
Is it fuck terrible.
Stoke is, though.
It’s not really fair though to say that, I mean Birmingham is fucking huge. So why it may be squalor for you South Side lot with your Northfields and your Noses, its not so bad for the rest of us.
Either way, Shelton makes Northfield look like Catherine de Barnes.
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Agreed, its a fuck load worse than terrible.
Still, at least Brum ended up with a trophy, you may get some decent European sides descending on the area next season.
Did you write that one yourself?
A good portion of them will go to cause trouble and the rest will be there in their curly wigs and face paint like a bunch of day trippers after a Kodak moment.
Then they’ll have to come home. To Stoke and Yardley respectively.
As Greg would say *laugh*.
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He's about stokes level.
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Stoke are a disgrace to the game of football, the sooner they're relegated - the better... actually scrap that, the sooner that poxy little club goes into administration and out of existence - the better.
I think I can speak for everyone who supports a club in the Premier League in saying everyone would be very happy to see the back of Stoke. They deploy the most dirty tactics I think I've ever seen. No skill or talent, just anti-football and not to mention that their fans have a reputation of being very racist.
Their manager is a prick, their players are dirty scumbags always causing major injuries to oppossing players, they rely on Rory Delap's party trick for goals, they don't bother to try and play football it's just long balls from them for 90 minutes and constant fouling, extremely boring and to top it all off their fans have strong connections to the BNP.
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Don't let NRC run with the ball. He'll fall over it.
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Have a cuppa and an oatcake mate, the world will seem a better place.
I also wish they'd go down, only because we cant seem to beat the fuckers though.
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i wouldn't let a stoke fan get to you guys. anti football personified although it has made it possible for the small time clubs like stoke (old)bolton and blackburn to realise there dream of staying up in the big time with the likes of us. blues won a cup good for them! they also got relegated and are facing administration was it worth it? we rightly or wrongly opted out of our fa cup quarter final by sending out our 3rd string BUT we stayed up. stoke did well and are a safe 15th-8th kinda club villa are a top 7 team even after our awful season with injurys management changes and player unrest we STILL finished 9th. not bad for a tin pot club from a shit hole in england's second city
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Reading this thread, as a diversion from the unchanging managerial speculation, i came upon this quote from rigadon "Football ia supposed to be entertainment isn't it? Otherwise what is the point of it all? Grim loyalty maybe?"
I thought it summed up a lot of the attitudes towards teams like Stoke. Someone else described them as "anti-football", they may be anti-entertainment but that doesn't make them anti-football.
Football is primarily a game for playing not for watching. The aim of the game is to win, not entertain supporters, otherwise we would all be given score cards like come dancing.
Blackpool entertained, Stoke don't. Blackpool are more anti-football than Stoke because they are not as good at football.
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Forget Nigel, Stoke are about to sign Ridgewell, Jerome and life long Stoke fan Craig Gardner according to the Guardian.
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Stoke are a disgrace to the game of football, the sooner they're relegated - the better... actually scrap that, the sooner that poxy little club goes into administration and out of existence - the better.
I think I can speak for everyone who supports a club in the Premier League in saying everyone would be very happy to see the back of Stoke. They deploy the most dirty tactics I think I've ever seen. No skill or talent, just anti-football and not to mention that their fans have a reputation of being very racist.
Their manager is a prick, their players are dirty scumbags always causing major injuries to oppossing players, they rely on Rory Delap's party trick for goals, they don't bother to try and play football it's just long balls from them for 90 minutes and constant fouling, extremely boring and to top it all off their fans have strong connections to the BNP.
Sorry mate, you certainly do not speak for me. And don't presume to speak for such a diverse universe of people.
Ever since Wenger tried to convince the world that there was only One Way of playing the game of football - the Arsenal way - I have happily trumpeted the achievements of teams less blessed with the resources and academy facilities to attract the world's best talent. I have held Stoke up as an example of the different ways in which the game can be played.
I did not enjoy the time-wasting tactics employed by SCFC mentioned above by Chris Smith, but I am certainly not going to disparage them or question their right to exist in the top flight because of their style of football.
Just think back to the days of 2000 and JG's negativity (our last FAC Final was an exemplar of how to lose friends and fans!); think back to the dog-days of DOL and his soul-less approach.
At least the Stokies are having some fun and getting better at it! And winning.
Re NRC, he's a decent enough player who - with the right management and team ethos - will offer good value for money (subject to him not cutting a ridiculous personal deal).
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i wouldn't let a stoke fan get to you guys.
I think you'll find it was the other way round. Perils of posting in a forum where everyone supports another team. And he only came on to find out what we thought of NRC.
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I agree with the two posts above.
That said Stoke's horrid tendency to take points of us is getting a bit old.
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i wouldn't let a stoke fan get to you guys.
I think you'll find it was the other way round. Perils of posting in a forum where everyone supports another team. And he only came on to find out what we thought of NRC.
he is trying to antagonise us by saying birmingham city win things and that now birmingham are in europe they wont get knocked out early on like we did twice. he also indirectly calls birmingham/aston a shit hole! now to me thats activly trying to piss us villa fans off. some of us have done it back so we arnt blame less but this is an aston villa fan site and any fan being condescending towards our fans/team can expect a fair amout of arsy replys. if he only came to chat about coker why speak about bcfc's achievements aswel as if birmingham is a nice area and the fact that mighty stoke keep beating us? sod all to do with reo coker. if he wants banter make a friendly banter thread and theres no problem when it goes so very far off topic. the rest of my post also says stokes style is boring buy effective and that there target is safty year on year and thats also fine so im not exactly being nasty am i?
on reo he was reportedly asking for over 70k a week and if stoke can afford that i'd be stunned. qpr bound i think or mayb rubin kazan
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i wouldn't let a stoke fan get to you guys.
I think you'll find it was the other way round. Perils of posting in a forum where everyone supports another team. And he only came on to find out what we thought of NRC.
he is trying to antagonise us by saying birmingham city win things and that now birmingham are in europe they wont get knocked out early on like we did twice. he also indirectly calls birmingham/aston a shit hole! now to me thats activly trying to piss us villa fans off.
I think you will find he was fielding negative comments about Stoke City, Stoke players, Stoke fans and Stoke the place for several pages before he made that comment.
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I agree with the two posts above.
That said Stoke's horrid tendency to take points of us is getting a bit old.
That's the biggest factor in all this really, isn't it?
EffDee has covered most of it, English football throws up unique challenges and if you want any degree of success, be prepared to deal with completely different styles of play from the opposition from one game to the next.
It's not 'orrible Stoke's fault that our players signed mostly for big transfer fees and huge wages aren't resourceful enough to overcome a side built for a fraction of the cost. Whether they timewaste, have a doughnut like Delap launching scud missiles into the opposition penalty area or whatever.
Whilst we're on the subject, we haven't exactly been purveyors of total football in recent seasons either. A side that relies heavily on set pieces, delivery from out wide and generally has pretty poor possession percentages compared to the opposition? Sound like anyone we know?
I'll ignore the cracks about European football, as for the likes of Stoke and B-lose it's probably a once in a lifetime thrill.
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i wouldn't let a stoke fan get to you guys.
I think you'll find it was the other way round. Perils of posting in a forum where everyone supports another team. And he only came on to find out what we thought of NRC.
he is trying to antagonise us by saying birmingham city win things and that now birmingham are in europe they wont get knocked out early on like we did twice. he also indirectly calls birmingham/aston a shit hole! now to me thats activly trying to piss us villa fans off.
I think you will find he was fielding negative comments about Stoke City, Stoke players, Stoke fans and Stoke the place for several pages before he made that comment.
Well said that man.
I didn't come on here to get dragged into that kind of drivel.
Some times knuckle draggers drag you down to their level.
I apologise for that.
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Agreed, its a fuck load worse than terrible.
Still, at least Brum ended up with a trophy, you may get some decent European sides descending on the area next season.
What a shame I was actually rooting for you until your last post - thought you were handling the abuse and goading with wit and flair! i think NRC would do a great job for you - just don't let him shoot
Apology accepted :-)
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Yes, Reo Coker would be a quality addition for Stoke, would have been pretty happy if we still had him to be honest. Has he signed for them?
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NRC - i remember his agent saying he would be one of the most sort after free agents this summer, and know he is off to Stoke - laughing my tits off!! i hope that NRC gets all he deserves (I want 80k a week) yeah best of luck!!
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As time has gone on our style of play as slowly improved.
Admittedly its not the most "aesthetically pleasing" in the league but it is effective.
We now deploy 2 out and out, old fashioned style wingers so we don't always go down the direct route.
I've watched Stoke a few times when we haven't been playing and I thought you were improving.
Then your lot came to Villa Park and I saw, for the first time in memory, wingers not trying to beat their man but attempting to cannon the ball off the fullbacks shins at every opportunity.
It wasn't pretty