Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Markerton on May 26, 2011, 10:01:42 AM
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Full story on SkySports.com. (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6952734,00.html)
Downing:
I am 26 and at a major crossroads in my career so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment.
"When I was injured that made me realise what it can be like to be out for such a long time. It hurt. The most important thing is to play football, but I do want to play in the Champions League at some point.
Same shit, different day.
Does anyone else see this as a bad thing? I'm starting to worry.
I can bear losing Young, but if we lose Downing as well then I'm gonna start shitting bricks already.
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Double plus f**k. :-(
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What a knob, same old Villa, not giving 5 years deals out, how thick is our board? Milner, Ash and now Downing all record signings on 4 year contracts!
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Full story on SkySports.com. (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6952734,00.html)
Downing:
I am 26 and at a major crossroads in my career so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment.
"When I was injured that made me realise what it can be like to be out for such a long time. It hurt. The most important thing is to play football, but I do want to play in the Champions League at some point.
Well as good as he's been for us this season he still would'nt get into any of the current champions league teams.
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The reason players are leaving (IMHO) is because we're not showing any passion or ambition.
The signing of Darren Bent has shown we WANT to be a top club, and I think it's up to the management to pull their wallets out and start showing the money to the players we want NEED to keep.
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Said on the transfer thread from hos comments a couple of weeks back to this there has been a shift. Agents whispers almost certainly. If there was a silly bid over 15 million I would sell and be done with it. Fed up of wondering if X is staying or going.
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We won't keep our top players unless we improve and get into the top four or five, ever twas thus and always will be.
Young this season, Downing next, I'm afraid it's depressingly predictable.
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There's too many question marks hanging over the club. Will GH be back, will he not? Will there be money to spend will there not? Is Ash off is he not?
We really need to answer a few of those questions in the next few weeks and start building the team up again.
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We need to get a respected manager in as soon as possible to convince our stars to stay and, just as importantly, get others to sign.
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Players, or rather more accurately their agents, are mercenaries. As Tevez's attitude at M<an City has shown it doesn't matter what you can offer them, it doesn't matter how much you spend or this bollocks about the board showing 'passion' or 'ambition'.
If Downing wants to go there's nothing the Villa board can do to stop him. And anyway, the best clubs in the world also lose their players, so all this bleating is a little ridiculous. Is it another blow? Yes of course. Will it happen again, and again, and agina, no matter how successful Villa were? Yes, of course.
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He's still got 2 years left on his current deal. After flirting with relegation this season maybe he's waiting to see who the manager will be, which players we buy, and what direction we start heading in next season. If it's more of the same next season he'll continue our recent habit of selling our best player every summer. If things look better maybe he'll then sign a new deal. Not reading too much into it tbh
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We need to get a respected manager in as soon as possible to convince our stars to stay and, just as importantly, get others to sign.
No Manager in the world will convince them more than a £25.000+ a week wage increase .
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Modern football in a nutshell, after spending his first few months injured, has a good season then drops hints in the media to flush out prospective buyers.
Oh so predictable.
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I am 26 and at a major crossroads in my career so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment.
"When I was injured that made me realise what it can be like to be out for such a long time. It hurt....
...so I vowed to never to attempt another tackle as long as I live.
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An above average season and he thinks he's bloody Messi. Champions League football with who Stewart, Bohemians?
The only good news is as he says, he's approaching a crossroads in his career and as we all know, he can't cross a ball, nevermind a road.
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Been tapped up by the Redscouse obviously IMO. Shame but that is modern football.
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is he away with the england lot currently? hmmmmm........
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We need to get a respected manager in as soon as possible to convince our stars to stay and, just as importantly, get others to sign.
No Manager in the world will convince them more than a £25.000+ a week wage increase .
We've already offerered Downing a substantial increase. Unless Man City show an interest he is unlikely to get huge amounts more elsewhere than at Villa. We will probably convince him to stay if we convince him of our ambitions. Then again, some people want to believe Milner only left for the money.
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I hate football
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To be honest if I was him I'd be thinking exactly the same. I'd see a club who went backwwards after a failure to invest last summer and with uncertainty over the manager. I'd think that I had two years on my contract so I'd give it a few months to see how things pan out.
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He joined us because of MON.
He's waiting to see what happens re. GH and Ash before even thinking about committing.
At 26, you can't blame him, as Irish Villan said, we're in a state of flux.
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He joined us because of MON.
He's waiting to see what happens re. GH and Ash before even thinking about committing.
At 26, you can't blame him, as Irish Villan said, we're in a state of flux.
But we were in this situation 2 weeks ago when he practically had pen to paper !!??
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posted this in the tranfer thread, and I still agree with it.
Downings being a right c unt here.
He is not at a 'major crossroads of his career' as he states.
He has 2 FUCKING YEARS LEFT on his contract.
He will be at a major crossroads in 2 years time when his contrcat expires, or approaching one next year when there is a year left.
BUT THAT IS NOT NOW!!!!
As its stands he is only half way through his current contract.
God, I hate modern day footballers...they are all wankers !!
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He joined us because of MON.
He's waiting to see what happens re. GH and Ash before even thinking about committing.
At 26, you can't blame him, as Irish Villan said, we're in a state of flux.
I thought he joined us because he didn't fancy slumming it in the championship. I'm guessing who the manager was didn't come into it.
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downing has been an improvement on his previous shite season, but i dont think he has been that great...
better of a shite bunch granted, but i certainly wouldnt be concerned if he left for 15mil or more...
i hope the jumped up pansy little shit enjoys following the likes of milner and warming a champs league clubs bench...
personally, i would be more concerned if albrighton left (he has similar goals and assists stats to both downing and young, with over 1000 mins less football)...
as far as im concerned, both downing and young can fuck right off...
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sometimes you get players that turn out to be a lot better than you thought ie Bent, i wasnt all that taken with Bent when we bought him, but glad to say he has proved me wrong
then theres players who turn out to be a lot worse than you thought, ie Ireland, i thought he would be a great player for Villa, but he's been a load of crap so far, so wrong there again.
then theres players who who turn out to be exactly what you thought, like Downing,
i didnt want him when he came, i dont want him now, and will be glad when he's gone.
most overated Villa player for years,
Liverpool are welcome to him
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Been tapped up by the Redscouse obviously IMO. Shame but that is modern football.
That's what I reckon too, he's been gotten to by King Kenny or Candlehead Rednapp. Ah well, going to be another tough drawn out summer of loosing our best and hoping the young guys come through. Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.....we are becoming a good club for blooding players for the so called "next level".
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An above average season and he thinks he's bloody Messi. Champions League football with who Stewart, Bohemians?
The only good news is as he says, he's approaching a crossroads in his career and as we all know, he can't cross a ball, nevermind a road.
Bang on
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If he's as good as his head is telling him, lets get £25mill for him and fuck him off.
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Been tapped up by the Redscouse obviously IMO. Shame but that is modern football.
That's what I reckon too, he's been gotten to by King Kenny or Candlehead Rednapp. Ah well, going to be another tough drawn out summer of loosing our best and hoping the young guys come through. Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.....we are becoming a good club for blooding players for the so called "next level".
He's got 2 years left on his contract, we don't have to sell him. If we do, and I don't think we will, it will be because we put money ahead of football.
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Been tapped up by the Redscouse obviously IMO. Shame but that is modern football.
That's what I reckon too, he's been gotten to by King Kenny or Candlehead Rednapp. Ah well, going to be another tough drawn out summer of loosing our best and hoping the young guys come through. Barry, Milner, Young, Downing.....we are becoming a good club for blooding players for the so called "next level".
He's got 2 years left on his contract, we don't have to sell him. If we do, and I don't think we will, it will be because we put money ahead of football.
Or, we decide that if he can't commit to our club he can fuck off !!
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He hasn't banked on Randy. If Randy sells Ash, he just won't sell Downing, I'm still confident of that.
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There's a pattern developing here with all our best players of late.
Leave middling club and join Villa.
Do nothing special at Villa but still get played.
Develop at Villa and get noticed by England.
Get established with England.
Make references taken from the highway code.
Talk about Champions League and your age.
Warm a bench somewhere in the North West.
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i expect hes aware of liverpools reported interested and has had his head turned, with the extra yr on his contract id be looking for at least £18m for him , but once a player makes these kind of noises its likely he will go.
Id rather have players who want to be here than with one eye on the door and unhappy players can cause unrest, we dont need to sell so he would demand a good transfer sum if we decide to let him leave.
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There's a pattern developing here with all our best players of late.
Leave middling club and join Villa.
Do nothing special at Villa but still get played.
Develop at Villa and get noticed by England.
Get established with England.
Make references taken from the highway code.
Talk about Champions League and your age.
Warm a bench somewhere in the North West.
I blame the player's accountants. There's probably a whole Pension Plan based on doing 2 years with Villa and then making enough to retire
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This stuff about players having their heads turned is a bit wishy washy if you ask me - mainly becauase they don't need their heads turning - that implies some about turn in the way they view things, as if they were perfectly happy to be here forever until someone pointed out to them that clubs like Man City and United win trophies and play in the CL.
The fact is that they all want to play at the highest level, and if they can't do it here, they'll do it elsewhere. Until we can provide at the very least evidence of establishing our credentials in the league (being "in amongst it") this will always happen.
What I don't understand - and I've only read it on this thread, so maybe it is incorrect - is why we give players like Downing and Young four year rather than five year contracts, as it makes that awkward "two years left" mment happen sooner than you'd like.
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A selling club.......like manu, Ronoldo, Teves etc
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To be honest theres not many players who given the chance to join liverpool from villa wouldnt want to go, sadly it seemsd a trend that we are having our better players picked off one by one and i agree that until we can acquire champions league football it is likely to happen again and again.
Its not so much as a selling club but if players express a desire to play elsewhere what choice really do we have? we saw what happened with dwight yorke after we refused his request- if a player wants to go then he is best out of it , we need players totally committed to aston villa.
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What I don't understand - and I've only read it on this thread, so maybe it is incorrect - is why we give players like Downing and Young four year rather than five year contracts, as it makes that awkward "two years left" mment happen sooner than you'd like.
Agreed, Paulie. I always thought is was good business sense that we had an additional 'one year option' on contracts. I can only guess that agents are against it now.
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Yet again we see a player who's ambition is not matched by his talent, yes he's had a decent season but Liverpool is the only club who would be interested, and lets face it they are a long way off the likes of United, Chelski, Arsenal and Man City so European football is not likely for them in the forseeable future. Put a 20 million tag on him and Young and see how many takers there are, if they are regarded as being that good they will be snapped up.
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All this further supports the need to build from our youth set up. Get the players engrained in the club. That way you will get more loyalty, not complete loyalty but certainly more.
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Can't see him going this summer with Ash off. So a new manager, a show of intent in the transfer market followed by a stonking season should seem him right...who know's maybe this time next year we will be looking to improve upon him..
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If they go to a top club like Manu and are guaranteed CL football then fine but Spurs? Liverpool? It would really irritate me if we lost them to clubs like that. At least with Barry and Milner going to City you know they have enough money to (almost) guarantee success. If he goes to Liverpool I will despair!
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I don't see what the issue is. He's under contract and like every ambitious international player in the PL he wants to play at the highest level. I hope he gets there with us. It's as much up to us as a club to help get him there as it is for him to be a part of that success. This year I hope is a one off, but if we don't figure out a way to stay competitive every season don't be surprise if we hear similar noises from Delph, Albrighton, Clark etc in years to come.
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
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I am sick of players who somehow think playing for Aston Villa is no longer good enough, either he signs a new deal or sell to the highest bidder, and that could be QPR.
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If the pansy wants to go,good riddence i say. Have never seen a player pull out of so many 50 50 tackles as our Stewart
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
He's been our best player this season, in my opinion.
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He's been the best player for me too this season, can't criticise him on his displays this year, but it's a factor of the money in modern day football I'm afraid that players don't show the loyalty of olden days.
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He has been very good this season Post-England goal - but the other months he has been average and below average. Got the player of the year award because Bent only came in January - and now he thinks he is the dogs-bollocks. Some players lose 50/50 tackles - Downing loses (don't even try) 20/80 tackles.
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
He's been our best player this season, in my opinion.
I'd probably agree.
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A few years back this sort of thing would've bothered me but I lost my feelings for the game a few years back when Barry, Milner left. They're all overpaid, overrated c**ts and I won't line their pockets anymore!! At the end of the day their only motivation is money..........
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
He's been our best player this season, in my opinion.
I'd probably agree.
I would too, but I would say that he was probably 7 out of 10 for the season and based on how shit he was last season I think I'd show the club a bit of respect and keep my gob shut.
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
He's been our best player this season, in my opinion.
I'd probably agree.
Easily our most consistent player this season, I have no arguments about that. Get what they can for him and let him rot at Man City like Milner is doing..... I mean he can hardly get in now, wait until they start spending again and he's even further down the pecking order.
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He was easily our player of the year in a mediocre and for much of it a poor season. We don't know what's happening with the management, or how many new faces will be arriving, the club is at the same crossroads as Downing. Bent would never have arrived if we hadn't been in desperate trouble, it was the best panic buy in the club's history but hardly a sign of sustained ambition. If Downing's a bit cautious about commiting beyond his two years then you can't really blame him.
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It makes me laugh how fans get so upset when a player dares to want to move on from the Villa.
Usually the reason they joined us and moved up the ladder was because they were ambitious - so why do we expect them to stop being ambitious once they pull on a claret and blue shirt?
If you're lucky enough to have football as your job/career then you're going to try and play at the highest level you possibly can and make as much money as you can whilst doing it.
They're just men at work.
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
He's been our best player this season, in my opinion.
I'd probably agree.
I would too, but I would say that he was probably 7 out of 10 for the season and based on how shit he was last season I think I'd show the club a bit of respect and keep my gob shut.
He has no respect for the club, this bloke despite being injured had faith shown in him by our owners and now comes out with comments like this. Absolute c**t in my opinion.......
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A few years back this sort of thing would've bothered me but I lost my feelings for the game a few years back when Barry, Milner left. They're all overpaid, overrated c**ts and I won't line their pockets anymore!! At the end of the day their only motivation is money..........
I feel the same. It's interesting that in the space of 2 seasons we are likely to have lost an entire midfield namely Barry,Milner, Young and Downing that should have been capable of taking us to the top 4.
However it is clear that none of these players were ever particularly interested in the long term objectives of Aston Villa.
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
He's been our best player this season, in my opinion.
I'd probably agree.
I would too, but I would say that he was probably 7 out of 10 for the season and based on how shit he was last season I think I'd show the club a bit of respect and keep my gob shut.
He has no respect for the club, this bloke despite being injured had faith shown in him by our owners and now comes out with comments like this. Absolute c**t in my opinion.......
Exactly
We bought him injured and then stuck with him last season for the most part when he was fucking rubbish then he has a good season - not a great one and all of a sudden he's Ronaldo.
Liverpool would be the only "bigger" club to be interested and way over 12 million, I don't think so.
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I have no problem whatsoever with Young wanting a move, I would actually run out his contract as I think it's more beneficial to Villa. The problem I have with Downing is that nobody else really wanted him at the price Boro quoted as he was injured. He still has two years left on his contract so to talk about being at a crossroads at the moment should be furthest from his mind, he knows because he's flavour of the month and he's using that for his gain.
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A few years back this sort of thing would've bothered me but I lost my feelings for the game a few years back when Barry, Milner left. They're all overpaid, overrated c**ts and I won't line their pockets anymore!! At the end of the day their only motivation is money..........
I feel the same. It's interesting that in the space of 2 seasons we are likely to have lost an entire midfield namely Barry,Milner, Young and Downing that should have been capable of taking us to the top 4.
However it is clear that none of these players were ever particularly interested in the long term objectives of Aston Villa.
Maybe they know the long term objectives of Aston Villa.....and they aren't that interesting.
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Why is everyone knocking him for last season? Yes, he did play the most part but are you forgetting that he had his leg in a fucking cast when we bought him?
I was not expecting him to play until mid January/early February last season, I was amazed at what he'd accomplished and that he'd managed to get back on the ball (no pun intended).
This season is Downing's normal play. This is what he can do day-in-day-out, the difference between this season and last season is the summer. He had a full summer's training this year, whereas last year (as I said) he was still injured for the most part.
Give the lad a break (no pun intended), he's a quality footballer and we need him at this club, especially if we have any chance of clawing away at the top 6 again this year.
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A few years back this sort of thing would've bothered me but I lost my feelings for the game a few years back when Barry, Milner left. They're all overpaid, overrated c**ts and I won't line their pockets anymore!! At the end of the day their only motivation is money..........
I feel the same. It's interesting that in the space of 2 seasons we are likely to have lost an entire midfield namely Barry,Milner, Young and Downing that should have been capable of taking us to the top 4.
However it is clear that none of these players were ever particularly interested in the long term objectives of Aston Villa.
Maybe they know the long term objectives of Aston Villa.....and they aren't that interesting.
As fans we always blame the club for not being ambitious enough, if I was Lerner I'd just say 'Fuck it, I can't be dealing with these ingrate egotistical wankers' sell up and wash my hands with football.
Actually saying that I lie, I'd willingly lose money and ruin their careers, but then again I'm bitter :(
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So it's Downing to Liverpool as Ashley Young goes to Man Utd then. Better get N'Zogbia in.
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Its all McAllister's fault!!
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If Downing and Young go, Bent could aswell. Doubt he'd enjoy it here if he's getting no supply.
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If Downing and Young go, Bent could aswell. Doubt he'd enjoy it here if he's getting no supply.
Well he seems happy enough at the moment with next to no supply from either Ashley or Downing.
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bloody hell. Ash, Downing, Bent...who's next? Albrighton, Clark, Delph, Makoun, Bannan? Turn off all thr lights, shut the place down. How will we survive? Randy should sell as soon as possible. They'll all be gone.
All I can see is this image of grown men in Villa kits running round screaming that it's the end of the world.
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He may have been player of the season, but out of our three wingers, he is the one I would miss the least. With an extra year on his contract to run, he is arguably more valuable than Ash. That being the case, if someone were to offer £18-20m for him, Id take it, re-invest, and Give Ash what he wants to stay. When in form, there is no doubt in my mind that Young is a much better winger than Downing.
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bloody hell. Ash, Downing, Bent...who's next? Albrighton, Clark, Delph, Makoun, Bannan? Turn off all thr lights, shut the place down. How will we survive? Randy should sell as soon as possible. They'll all be gone.
All I can see is this image of grown men in Villa kits running round screaming that it's the end of the world.
Bent?
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A few years back this sort of thing would've bothered me but I lost my feelings for the game a few years back when Barry, Milner left. They're all overpaid, overrated c**ts and I won't line their pockets anymore!! At the end of the day their only motivation is money..........
I feel the same. It's interesting that in the space of 2 seasons we are likely to have lost an entire midfield namely Barry,Milner, Young and Downing that should have been capable of taking us to the top 4.
However it is clear that none of these players were ever particularly interested in the long term objectives of Aston Villa.
Except that Barry had been here 10 years when he left and selling him paid for Downing. Milner might argue that our spending plans for last summer convinced him that the long term objectives of Aston Villa weren't for him.
We all make career decisions to suit ourselves and I should be used to but I'm still surprised that people expect footballers to behave any differently to the rest of us.
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If Downing and Young go, Bent could aswell. Doubt he'd enjoy it here if he's getting no supply.
Well he seems happy enough at the moment with next to no supply from either Ashley or Downing.
Other than setting up most of his goals you've got a point.
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If Downing and Young go, Bent could aswell. Doubt he'd enjoy it here if he's getting no supply.
Well he seems happy enough at the moment with next to no supply from either Ashley or Downing.
Other than setting up most of his goals you've got a point.
I think you're confusing him with Walker.
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I really wan't to keep him especially if as expected Young leaves it would mean we would lose two England internationals which all though we could replace them with better it would send out the wrong signals to other clubs which is not what I wan't I don't wan't players coming here and thinking I will go there and spend a season or two have one good season and move on a stepping stone club I wan't players to stay and perform for us while they are under contract not thinking about moving on.
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They are both good players and have had pretty good seasons, but if they don't want to give us the benefit of another couple of seasons (especially Downing who has given us 1 full fit season), and then maybe move while still in their prime then bollox to the pair of them, the mercenary bar stewards.
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Downing's form has been no more than acceptable this season for a supposed £12m player.
Whilst the trend is depressing and indicative of how it is virtually impossible for a club like Villa to slowly build a competative side, I still couldn't care less if I never saw Downing in a Villa shirt again.
He's been our best player this season, in my opinion.
It wasnt hard to do thou really was it ..
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If Downing and Young go, Bent could aswell. Doubt he'd enjoy it here if he's getting no supply.
Well he seems happy enough at the moment with next to no supply from either Ashley or Downing.
Other than setting up most of his goals you've got a point.
I think you're confusing him with Walker.
I'm pretty sure he's not. Young and Downing have both set up more goals for Bent than Walker has.
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If Downing and Young go, Bent could aswell. Doubt he'd enjoy it here if he's getting no supply.
Well he seems happy enough at the moment with next to no supply from either Ashley or Downing.
Other than setting up most of his goals you've got a point.
I think you're confusing him with Walker.
I'm pretty sure he's not. Young and Downing have both set up more goals for Bent than Walker has.
Young set up three: Everton, West Ham and Arsenal
Walker set up three: Bolton, Stoke and Arsenal
Downing set up two: Man Utd and Everton.
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Year 1: Gareth Barry
Year 2: James Milner
Year 3: Ashley Young
Year 4: Stewart Downing
Year 5: Ciaran Clark
Year 6: Mark Albrighton
Year 7: Gary Gardner
etc etc.... football, as a competitive sport is dead.
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This is also another wake up call to all those who think the players have absolute buy in to the Houllier philosophy. Downing clearly doesn't as he still has two years on his contract to run and he's already making the earliest possible agitation for a move.
Perhaps this is a coded message to Randy that it's not only the supporters that realise that this Management team needs to be put out to pasture.
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I can't see the drama in his comments here. We have had a crap season and the management is up in the air. I am sure he will sign a new deal if the next few months are what we hope for.
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Oh good, loyalty being shown again.
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If Downing and Young go, Bent could aswell. Doubt he'd enjoy it here if he's getting no supply.
Well he seems happy enough at the moment with next to no supply from either Ashley or Downing.
Other than setting up most of his goals you've got a point.
I think you're confusing him with Walker.
I'm pretty sure he's not. Young and Downing have both set up more goals for Bent than Walker has.
Young set up three: Everton, West Ham and Arsenal
Walker set up three: Bolton, Stoke and Arsenal
Downing set up two: Man Utd and Everton.
Young should get credited with an assist for the Man City goal too. Then there's all the chances they set up that he missed. Young in particular has struck up a good understanding with Bent, slipping balls through timed to his runs.
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His most likely destination would be Liverpool (not much European football there this season) or Spurs (he'll be bench warmer in they hold on to Lennon and Bale). Les Arse, Chelski or Man Ure would not be interested in him, would not be good enough for them in my opinion. The only wild card would be Citeh, but the will be looking for a better calibre of player.
It's disheartening at this stage, to continually loose our best players, to see no loyalty from them. Football is becoming a game that it's getting harder and harder to maintain interest in, why should we invest our money and nervous energy season after season if it's patently obviously that the players don't give a shite about the jersey or the fans.
A regulatory body should be put in place to police what these bloodsuckers agents are doing to the game and give them parameters to stay within.
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Same old, same old. It used to happen once every few years to us - Rioch, Gray, Gidman, *odge, Platt, Yorke etc - now it happen every bloody year. I was going to sort my season ticket out today but my enthusiasm has gone unsurprisingly.
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Downing won't be going anywhere this summer. I think we've all accepted Ash is off, but Randy's is no mug. He's shown that he's not arsed about the cash to prove a point to the player.
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Young should get credited with an assist for the Man City goal too. Then there's all the chances they set up that he missed. Young in particular has struck up a good understanding with Bent, slipping balls through timed to his runs.
You're clutching at straws with the Man City goal. Young shot, had nothing to do with setting up Bent.
You're right, Bent has missed a couple but overall, considering the possession and positions both Ashley and Downing get themselves into with Bent waiting in the middle, the failure to deliver the final ball has been nothing but very poor. If Downing can improve on that side of his game, we really will have the complete player and maybe then teams in the Champions League might show an interest.
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Fuck off Downing you two faced prick.
Sick of these Stewies and Ashleys and Rios and Stevies and Lamps and JT's and Wazzas and Bazzas who are all basically self serving, arrogant, thick, egotistical prima dona pricks.
Don't tell us two weeks ago you can't see why would want to leave then tell us some bullshit about being at a Crossroads when we took a chance on you when you had a potentially career threatening injury and turned you into the player you have become which is just about better than average. Now do one along with your mate.
And Villa, stop arsing about again, do the decent thing and remove this failed management team and get someone in who is going to restore the work ethic into these under performing 'stars'.
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This is the last year I believe that clubs can spend what they want on transfers as next year the UEFA rules kick in. As such I think the transfer window will go mental with clubs spending more than in any other window. I dare say agents are telling their players that this may well be the last chance to secure massive long term contracts. Hence Downing all of a sudden has a change fo ehart and uses the usual CL ambitions as a smoke-screen for chasing the £.
Personally I am more concerned what happens at our club with the Manager situation. If we have a good manager then he won't be worried about players like Downing wanting to leave as he will have the skills to find a replacement.
I'd rather 11 younger, hungrier players on the pitch than so called established stars who have one good season and think they are fit to play against the likes of Messi.
Our best season under MON was when we had that and we have gone backwards ever since the Barrys, Milners, Youngs of this world think they are better than the club they are at.
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Considering Young and Downing are both off and Walker's probably going back to Spurs the argument going on is a bit academic isn't it?
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'I'm enjoying my stay here. I've enjoyed it since the first day I came. It's a terrific football club. It's fantastic they want me. There are terrific players here. I'm confident, despite this season, we're going in the right direction and if we get the right players in then I'm happy. 'The important thing in football is - if you're happy why change it? I know it's been a disappointing season, but I can see the bigger picture. It's great here."
Quote Downing 2 weeks ago.
Since then we have beaten Arsenal and Liverpool, and he is not so sure about sticking around.
If we are offered over 15 million we should sell.
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'I'm enjoying my stay here. I've enjoyed it since the first day I came. It's a terrific football club. It's fantastic they want me. There are terrific players here. I'm confident, despite this season, we're going in the right direction and if we get the right players in then I'm happy. 'The important thing in football is - if you're happy why change it? I know it's been a disappointing season, but I can see the bigger picture. It's great here."
Quote Downing 2 weeks ago.
Since then we have beaten Arsenal and Liverpool, and he is not so sure about sticking around.
If we are offered over 15 million we should sell.
He's not sure about extending his contract "at the moment", big difference.
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...and the first game we're up against him we should instruct the team to 'concentrate' on his bad ankle just to remind him which club looked after him in his hour of need.
One good season is his return for the faith we put in him. At lease Barry, Milner and Young have given us more than that.
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'I'm enjoying my stay here. I've enjoyed it since the first day I came. It's a terrific football club. It's fantastic they want me. There are terrific players here. I'm confident, despite this season, we're going in the right direction and if we get the right players in then I'm happy. 'The important thing in football is - if you're happy why change it? I know it's been a disappointing season, but I can see the bigger picture. It's great here."
Quote Downing 2 weeks ago.
Since then we have beaten Arsenal and Liverpool, and he is not so sure about sticking around.
If we are offered over 15 million we should sell.
I think the above quote was from his online chat with the fans. The quote on which this thread is based is presumably in response to a journalist's question which is not stated but which was probably loaded to get the response.
"I know the club are keen for me to extend my contract as I only have two years left on my deal and that my agent had a recent meeting with our chief executive (Paul Faulkner)," Downing confirmed.
"However, I am 26 and at a major crossroads in my career so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment."
One could choose to emphasize the phrase "at the moment" as meaning he wants to see what transpires next season. You could also argue that he would be a mug to sign at this juncture.
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'I'm enjoying my stay here. I've enjoyed it since the first day I came. It's a terrific football club. It's fantastic they want me. There are terrific players here. I'm confident, despite this season, we're going in the right direction and if we get the right players in then I'm happy. 'The important thing in football is - if you're happy why change it? I know it's been a disappointing season, but I can see the bigger picture. It's great here."
Quote Downing 2 weeks ago.
Since then we have beaten Arsenal and Liverpool, and he is not so sure about sticking around.
If we are offered over 15 million we should sell.
He's not sure about extending his contract "at the moment", big difference.
Not really, the message is the same.
All the classic snippets are there - mentioning his age, wants to play in the CL etc etc.
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That's really pissed me off.
Let's sell him for £20m, get N'Zogbia for £10m.
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there's no point getting worked up over this. It's going to happen to us and almost every other club for the rest of eternity. The relative success of club just delays the inevitable. Barcelona for example, players may only up and leave at the very end of their careers. In contrast, current day Aston Villa and clubs everywhere in a similar position, the most "loyalty" we might get out of a player is 3 to 4 years. The better we become, the more chance that 3 to 4 years gets a little longer. Whether it is players from our own youth system or those we have acquired (players who have shown ambition and left their previous clubs for the very same reason we will lose ours), they are going to want to improve their personal situation.
Downing's comments don't suprise me in the least, any more than Ciaran Clark's won't in 2 or 3 years time if we are still an average PL football club.
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Footballers are gobshites, very rarely bother reading anything they have to say particulary when it's through official channels, they only bother to say what they think you want to say. If Heskey were to say he's retiring from playing football for a living and returning to his plastering business i'd be happy to read that particular interview.
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That's really pissed me off.
Let's sell him for £20m, get N'Zogbia for £10m.
the same N'Zogbia who left Newcastle, and in order for us to sign him, he'll leave Wigan for exactly the same reason as Ash will leave us?
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Yeah, him. That's the one.
I'm allowed to be pissed off for a moment and make a knee-jerk comment, TV. It's the first time I've been pissed off in the five years or so I've been posting on here. Am I not allowed to be annoyed that Downing might be leaving?
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That's really pissed me off.
Let's sell him for £20m, get N'Zogbia for £10m.
Ha! Makes me smile how we always over value our own players and under value other clubs players. Is Downing worth double what NZobia's worth? I doubt Wigan fans would take a straight swap if it was on offer.
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Yeah, him. That's the one.
I'm allowed to be pissed off for a moment and make a knee-jerk comment, TV. It's the first time I've been pissed off in the five years or so I've been posting on here. Am I not allowed to be annoyed that Downing might be leaving?
off course you are Merv. Maybe I've just become a little immune to it to be honest because I expect something like this every year (at least recently anyway), but it's not like it hasn't happened before. And it most certainly will happen again. Whether it's Barry, Milner, Young, or Platt, Yorke or McInally, history will repeat itself.
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It makes me laugh how fans get so upset when a player dares to want to move on from the Villa.
Usually the reason they joined us and moved up the ladder was because they were ambitious - so why do we expect them to stop being ambitious once they pull on a claret and blue shirt?
If you're lucky enough to have football as your job/career then you're going to try and play at the highest level you possibly can and make as much money as you can whilst doing it.
They're just men at work.
I absolutely agree with this. Most of the people on this thread are being absolutely hysterical.
The great irony is that so many of the people who are complaining about him being a disloyal little gobshite go on to suggest we replace him with N'Zogbia. A player who will have one good game and demand a move to Liverpool.
I don't see him leaving this summer if we sell Young but do have to concede there has been a marked turn around from his comments a few weeks ago. Even if he does go I can't bring myself to be too upset. It's football and if you were not a supporter of the club you would probably sign for Liverpool or Tottenham too. I would.
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It makes me laugh how fans get so upset when a player dares to want to move on from the Villa.
Usually the reason they joined us and moved up the ladder was because they were ambitious - so why do we expect them to stop being ambitious once they pull on a claret and blue shirt?
If you're lucky enough to have football as your job/career then you're going to try and play at the highest level you possibly can and make as much money as you can whilst doing it.
They're just men at work.
I absolutely agree with this. Most of the people on this thread are being absolutely hysterical.
The great irony is that so many of the people who are complaining about him being a disloyal little gobshite go on to suggest we replace him with N'Zogbia. A player who will have one good game and demand a move to Liverpool.
I don't see him leaving this summer if we sell Young but do have to concede there has been a marked turn around from his comments a few weeks ago. Even if he does go I can't bring myself to be too upset. It's football and if you were not a supporter of the club you would probably sign for Liverpool or Tottenham too. I would.
What annoys me is not the fact he wants to leave, but the fact two weeks ago he was going 'WHEEEYYYYYY!! I FUCKIN' LOVE IT HERE, WHERE'S THE PEN?!!', and all of a sudden it's a case of 'Hmmm ... I might not sign, actually.'
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It makes me laugh how fans get so upset when a player dares to want to move on from the Villa.
Usually the reason they joined us and moved up the ladder was because they were ambitious - so why do we expect them to stop being ambitious once they pull on a claret and blue shirt?
If you're lucky enough to have football as your job/career then you're going to try and play at the highest level you possibly can and make as much money as you can whilst doing it.
They're just men at work.
I absolutely agree with this. Most of the people on this thread are being absolutely hysterical.
The great irony is that so many of the people who are complaining about him being a disloyal little gobshite go on to suggest we replace him with N'Zogbia. A player who will have one good game and demand a move to Liverpool.
I don't see him leaving this summer if we sell Young but do have to concede there has been a marked turn around from his comments a few weeks ago. Even if he does go I can't bring myself to be too upset. It's football and if you were not a supporter of the club you would probably sign for Liverpool or Tottenham too. I would.
I agree that it happens at every club, but it seems to be a bit of an epidemic at Villa. We lost Barry and Milner, if we add Downing and Young to that this summer, then it's a poor state of affairs. I can't think of another club who will have lost four players of that quality in two years.
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What has changed in 2 weeks - there is one big and simple answer IMHO , the manager "word" has it that they dont get along , 2 weeks ago he was delighted to sign as it looked for all the world as if the manager was off, now he may stay he has decided to review his position. I will have a bet if GH moves up or out then Stewart will decide there is no better place to be blah blah
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It makes me laugh how fans get so upset when a player dares to want to move on from the Villa.
Usually the reason they joined us and moved up the ladder was because they were ambitious - so why do we expect them to stop being ambitious once they pull on a claret and blue shirt?
If you're lucky enough to have football as your job/career then you're going to try and play at the highest level you possibly can and make as much money as you can whilst doing it.
They're just men at work.
I absolutely agree with this. Most of the people on this thread are being absolutely hysterical.
The great irony is that so many of the people who are complaining about him being a disloyal little gobshite go on to suggest we replace him with N'Zogbia. A player who will have one good game and demand a move to Liverpool.
I don't see him leaving this summer if we sell Young but do have to concede there has been a marked turn around from his comments a few weeks ago. Even if he does go I can't bring myself to be too upset. It's football and if you were not a supporter of the club you would probably sign for Liverpool or Tottenham too. I would.
What annoys me is not the fact he wants to leave, but the fact two weeks ago he was going 'WHEEEYYYYYY!! I FUCKIN' LOVE IT HERE, WHERE'S THE PEN?!!', and all of a sudden it's a case of 'Hmmm ... I might not sign, actually.'
Precisely.
I would be less annoyed had he said nothing two weeks ago, would still have been annoyed though considering it's only one decent season he's given us in return for getting him back to full fitness. That was a years salary the club forked out for virtually no return. Downing owes us.
Either he's a cnut or his agent is or more than likely they both are.
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This kind of approach from players will get more and more common.4 year contracts, play 2, if you do well don't sign and hope a bigger club come in for you, if you are shit you want to sign a new deal.
FWIW play him for next season , and as per Ash, if he goes he goes.
Might be worth signing them on a 5 year deal though.
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Well this news has certainly fucked me off. Really liked the lad before this, it certainly has opened my eyes now. What a cnut.
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off course you are Merv. Maybe I've just become a little immune to it to be honest because I expect something like this every year (at least recently anyway), but it's not like it hasn't happened before. And it most certainly will happen again. Whether it's Barry, Milner, Young, or Platt, Yorke or McInally, history will repeat itself.
Yeah, I know. I'd hoped to avoid all 'Downing leaving' talk this summer, though. Like you, I've seen it happen time and time again at Villa but I hadn't even contemplated Downing going anywhere until a few whispers started doing the rounds about a month ago.
I'm not sure he's good enough for CL football, mind. Well, not playing for any of the 3-4 PL clubs who'll be in the CL next season anyway.
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He'll probably want to leave if he gets a better offer. Why wouldn't he?
It does seem like we're a bit vulnerable at the moment. Wealthy enough to have some seriously desirable players, but unable to keep them when others come sniffing.
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Can't let this happen.
Why the fuck do we always sell our best players? Selling our best players will get us nowhere. It'll only make us weaker.
Everton seem to keep their best players fine.
The board need to start doing something about this, it's getting out of hand.
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Can't let this happen.
Why the fuck do we always sell out best players? Selling our best players will get us nowhere. It'll only make us weaker.
Everton seem to keep their best players fine.
The board need to start doing something about this, it's getting out of hand.
Totally agree.
The club MUST show some steel and even some humility ( now that player power is so fucking painful).
Keep Downing, but:-
Sell Young for £20 mill
Buy N'Zogbia for £12 mill
£8 mill to add to the spending budget AND a very good player.
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Sell Downing to the highest bidder on the condition that he is dispatched to where ever in the same condition that we received him in.
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Realistically I can see that if we do get N'zogbia it would probably cost us everything we get from the Young sale (about £15m i guess). I just hate the fact we get to this position and players run their contracts down to one year so that we get fuck all for them when they do go. Two years ago we'd have been looking for (however realistically) twice what we're likely to get for Young, now we'll get a frenchman from wigan instead and no change to spare.
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Sell Downing to the highest bidder on the condition that he is dispatched to where ever in the same condition that we received him in.
Got a hammer? I'll do the honours...
(only joking)
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He'll probably want to leave if he gets a better offer. Why wouldn't he?
It does seem like we're a bit vulnerable at the moment. Wealthy enough to have some seriously desirable players, but unable to keep them when others come sniffing.
Wealthy enough to pay them stupid wages that they're more than willing to accept until they start thinking they're better than they are. You're right though, we are a bit vunerable at the moment.
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Everton seem to keep their best players fine.
Rooney, Lescott and Pienaar os probably comparable with Barry, Milner and Young. Plus rumours that Jaglielka is off to Arsenal this summer.
I think our biggest problem is that we do not expect these players to want to leave. They get to one year left on their contracts and we're surprised that someone is already lined up to buy them.
If we sold when we were in a position of strength then the team would not suffer so greatly. For example Milner effectively allowed us to buy bent and Ireland, whereas selling young will probably get us a Nzogbia, and that's it.
Admittedly there is a huge flaw in this argument due to the monumental cock up that was Ireland but 7 times out of 10 9m would get you a decent premiership level player.
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I'm bored of all this now. What's the best Villa can genuinely hope for if our best players keep leaving?
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He's got two years on his contract. he is going to leave at some point. Either
a) Now, for silly money
b) in twelve months' time, for a fair price
c) in two years' time, for nothing.
I am ready for any of (a), (b) or (c) provided that, for as long as he stays, he plays well.
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He's got two years on his contract. he is going to leave at some point. Either
a) Now, for silly money
b) in twelve months' time, for a fair price
c) in two years' time, for nothing.
I am ready for any of (a), (b) or (c) provided that, for as long as he stays, he plays well.
There's no need for that sort of realism on here, we need snarling and straining of sinews with a few cnuts thrown in for good measure.
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Yes, sorry Bren.
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If Downing did leave us it would be no surprise, and who could blame him? He wouldn't be the first to go and he certainly won't be the last (Bent will probably be next). Unless we qualify for the Champions League, or start winning things, this will continue to happen, so we might as well get used to it (I think most of us already are). As a club, we've had to reasses our place in the pecking order, in my opinion, and managing the fans' expectations will be part of that. We're a team that does the right thing, the right way, rather than a team that wins and wins ruthlessly. That's our place.
But when it comes down to character, it's evident from Downing's on-pitch attitude that he would never put himself on the line for anybody but himself. A hundred bottled challenges tells us that. He's a maggot, I'm afraid, and all his wriggling of late has been to attract bigger fish.
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Liverpool are going to have one big wage bill the number of Villa players due to join them. Good luck to them I say, be great to see how Kenny copes and gets them into the top 4.
As to Villa another tough season fighting relegation looks on the cards reading some of the tripe that's gone before.
No manager, all the best players sold, no money for new ones, Heaven help us.
Anyway away from the playground and back in the real world, seems to me our star player of the season is reminding the management that further prevarication is not the way to run a PL club looking to win things, just as going another season with a manager with dodgy health credentials is no way to consider the club has a viable future.
Randy wake up son.
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Anyway away from the playground and back in the real world
What were you doing at the playground Malcolm? You know you're not supposed to go there especially unsupervised.
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Who said there's no money for new players?
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Of all of our 'star' players under speculation in recent times, he is the one I'd be happiest to let go.
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Of all of our 'star' players under speculation in recent times, he is the one I'd be happiest to let go.
Although I generally agree, it's also be one of the most harmful if he goes the same summer Ash does.
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Of all of our 'star' players under speculation in recent times, he is the one I'd be happiest to let go.
Although I generally agree, it's also be one of the most harmful if he goes the same summer Ash does.
I agree there, John.
I'll be gutted when Ash goes though, and I just can't say the same about Mr 70%.
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Downing is not irreplaceable.
You would be hard to find another A.Young so easily, but Downing is hardly the worlds greaest player.
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He's not irreplaceable, but it's another job we could do without.
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Sad that we're becoming such a feeder club for bigger English teams. Someone will no doubt bring up Spurs/Berbatov and the fact that no team in the world is susceptible to getting their players nicked. But assuming Downing and Ash both go this summer I can't think of many that have lost their best player 4 times in 2 years whilst supposedly having ambitions of playing CL football.
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it stinks. You've got Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City. Arsenal might drop out of this bracket but they're only teams modern footballers want to play for because a) they have more money b) they're always in the Champions League (or will be in Man City's case). The rest of us, and i think this includes Tottenham, Everton and some of the bigger clubs, are always going to lose their players because we cant compete with them. The only way i can see us doing it is spending as much money as a Chelsea or Man City - and once you're in the top four you have to stay there. I dont like it and i cant accept it but this is what i think.
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Of all of our 'star' players under speculation in recent times, he is the one I'd be happiest to let go.
Although I generally agree, it's also be one of the most harmful if he goes the same summer Ash does.
I agree there, John.
I'll be gutted when Ash goes though, and I just can't say the same about Mr 70%.
agreed,
Ash can take a player on and beat him, theirs not a lot of players in the prem that can do that, Nani, Wallcot, lennon, Johnson, Valencia are just a few i can think of, but most of them play for top 4 sides, i'm not sure if the fella from wigan can do it either, but downing certainly cant.
if we have to bring in a wide man i hope its someone who has the pace and skill to take players on in wide positions, then of coarse the most important bit , delivering the ball
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There's no loyalty these days i would fuck him and anyone else off who doesn't want to commit to Villa.
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One good season and these players think they should be on the same stage as Messi.
Fuck off then Downing. Enjoy being the next Robbie Keane.
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A shame if he does decide to leave, I think he's a really good player. But, there are other really good players out there, I'm sure one of them would be prepared to replace him.
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[Downing:
I am 26 and at a major crossroads in my career so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment.
"When I was injured that made me realise what it can be like to be out for such a long time. It hurt. The most important thing is to play football, but I do want to play in the Champions League at some point.
Amazing how he forgets that we invested in a player that was injured and took a risk on him. Who else buys a player that fails his medical and sits out the 1st 6 months
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I am also at a major crossroads in my career. I am thinking of going full-time wearing a paint-stained tracksuit in the car park of B&Q and asking people if they need any tiling done
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A few years back this sort of thing would've bothered me but I lost my feelings for the game a few years back when Barry, Milner left. They're all overpaid, overrated c**ts and I won't line their pockets anymore!! At the end of the day their only motivation is money..........
I feel the same. It's interesting that in the space of 2 seasons we are likely to have lost an entire midfield namely Barry,Milner, Young and Downing that should have been capable of taking us to the top 4.
However it is clear that none of these players were ever particularly interested in the long term objectives of Aston Villa.
Maybe they know the long term objectives of Aston Villa.....and they aren't that interesting.
As fans we always blame the club for not being ambitious enough, if I was Lerner I'd just say 'Fuck it, I can't be dealing with these ingrate egotistical wankers' sell up and wash my hands with football.
It would'nt surprise me in the slightest if Randy's enthuiasm ran out sooner or later. It's his hard earned money he's spending, i would'nt blame him.
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It isn't just us. ManU couldn't keep Ronaldo and Tevez and even had Rooney spouting on about the club's ambition before they managed to kiss his arse the way he liked it.
I suspect that a big factor in footballers 'loyalty' generally these days is that agents make more more from transfers than they do from contract extensions.
All we can do is make sure we get a good price, and more importantly place greater importance on likely resale values when we ourselves sign players. This is something we have been particularly poor at for more than a decade.
As for Downing, he has been prominent this season without being anything special. I'd be more downhearted if Clark or Albrighton were to depart.
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I am also at a major crossroads in my career. I am thinking of going full-time wearing a paint-stained tracksuit in the car park of B&Q and asking people if they need any tiling done
Do you fancy a voice-over gig for Talk Shite commercials, Damon? You can record them from your bathroom at home to get the requisite booming echo effects.
Gardening equipment would be your niche in this area, I would say.
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He's not that special. If he's using his decent (but nothing more) season to gain leverage, that's just the way of the world these days. Be nice if he remembered it was us who paid him a fortune while he spent half a season getting back to fitness (caused by Petrov I know, Stan should really have handed out a portion of his wages to cover Downing's).
The home-grown model with talented players who actually care about the club (Albrighton, Clark) seems to be the only satisfying one remaining these days but unlikely that it'll lead to much success.
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'I'm enjoying my stay here. I've enjoyed it since the first day I came. It's a terrific football club. It's fantastic they want me. There are terrific players here. I'm confident, despite this season, we're going in the right direction and if we get the right players in then I'm happy. 'The important thing in football is - if you're happy why change it? I know it's been a disappointing season, but I can see the bigger picture. It's great here."
Quote Downing 2 weeks ago.
Since then we have beaten Arsenal and Liverpool, and he is not so sure about sticking around.
If we are offered over 15 million we should sell.
He's not sure about extending his contract "at the moment", big difference.
I think the fact that he's changed his tune within the space of 14 odd days is the main gripe that people have Chris and it's a fair enough argument.
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Maybe he's been tapped up and is planning to join MON, Robertson and Walford at Stamford Bridge. The timing of his about turn certainly coincides with MON's return to management and afterall, it was MON that actually signed him. Add to that Champions League football and I think we'd better start preparing to find his replacement.
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Bastards - all of them.
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Well if we have to lose our Player of the Year to anyone I'd rather it was Liverpool.
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Downing is a good player and has been our best player this season. He's far from irreplaceable though, another one like Milner who may find the grass isn't always greener elsewhere.
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do people think that downing is saying this as heard that ashley young was going to be offered big wages to stay at villa, there downing is only putting down marker that he wants big contract to stay
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What he's saying is I'm 26, think that I can play at the highest level, come and get me as i've no intention of signing any new contracts here, the doors open, Ash Young has been saying the same thing for about a season and a half now.
It is modern football, as ugly as that looks its a fact of life, what should be happening now is the movers and shakers at the club should be making moves to install a management team with a future game plan as to where we aspire to be going next season, who we are going to be getting in, if we want to keep our better players and if we want to attract the better players we need to at least look like we are going to have a crack at getting into Europe next season.
My thoughts on this are unless we get a new manager in place now I would expect anything to happen, wouldn't surprise me to see one of the top 4 or 5 come in for Bent, proven Premiership strikers being thin on the ground, wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Bent kick up a fuss and p*** of......on the premise that this is a career defining moment at his age.
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let him go,i think he is too lazy,a bottler and does'nt know and good pass. albrighton is a hungrier player and is'nt afraid to defend and someone like n,zogbia on the right for ash. i never rated him anyway. up the villa.it will be there loss, so f##k'em
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If we can get silly money for him let him go, he is a very good player and I don't want him to go but if he wants to go let's move him on.
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He would be perfect at Arsenal if he had the talent, big pussy
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What he's saying is I'm 26, think that I can play at the highest level, come and get me as i've no intention of signing any new contracts here, the doors open, Ash Young has been saying the same thing for about a season and a half now.
It is modern football, as ugly as that looks its a fact of life, what should be happening now is the movers and shakers at the club should be making moves to install a management team with a future game plan as to where we aspire to be going next season, who we are going to be getting in, if we want to keep our better players and if we want to attract the better players we need to at least look like we are going to have a crack at getting into Europe next season.
My thoughts on this are unless we get a new manager in place now I would expect anything to happen, wouldn't surprise me to see one of the top 4 or 5 come in for Bent, proven Premiership strikers being thin on the ground, wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Bent kick up a fuss and p*** of......on the premise that this is a career defining moment at his age.
i think if a top 4/5 side came in for Bent we might have a problem, same as we would for any player we have,
but i dont think they will,
Man Utd - Rooney, Hernandes, maybe Berbatov, no chance
Liverpool - Carrol, Suares, no chance
Arsenal - Van Persie, posible, but not a Wenger type player, but you never know
Man City - world and his wife and dog, but still possible,
Spurs - had him before, and Redknaps misses is better apparantly
Chelsea - Torres, Sturridge, Drogba? Anelka ?and the other one
i cant see any of them being in a position to make a bid, but then i didnt think we were, but still cant see it
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He would be perfect at Arsenal if he had the talent, big pussy
Lets face it, that's the mistake a lot of these players make, its almost a case of own hype blah blah, Milner springs to mind, show piece player with constant attention on him at Villa, takes the big pay day deal at Man City and its any more room on the bench for me scenario, crazy really.
IMO, Ash is a big player at Villa, if he goes to one of the top clubs he'll be another SWP, seriously, how much money do these blokes need ffs.
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if Downing's been tapped up i reckon its spurs. don't ask me why, just a gut feeling and the fact they have all sorts of shite to offer as part exchange as well as walker i guess
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What he's saying is I'm 26, think that I can play at the highest level, come and get me as i've no intention of signing any new contracts here, the doors open, Ash Young has been saying the same thing for about a season and a half now.
It is modern football, as ugly as that looks its a fact of life, what should be happening now is the movers and shakers at the club should be making moves to install a management team with a future game plan as to where we aspire to be going next season, who we are going to be getting in, if we want to keep our better players and if we want to attract the better players we need to at least look like we are going to have a crack at getting into Europe next season.
My thoughts on this are unless we get a new manager in place now I would expect anything to happen, wouldn't surprise me to see one of the top 4 or 5 come in for Bent, proven Premiership strikers being thin on the ground, wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Bent kick up a fuss and p*** of......on the premise that this is a career defining moment at his age.
i think if a top 4/5 side came in for Bent we might have a problem, same as we would for any player we have,
but i dont think they will,
Man Utd - Rooney, Hernandes, maybe Berbatov, no chance
Liverpool - Carrol, Suares, no chance
Arsenal - Van Persie, posible, but not a Wenger type player, but you never know
Man City - world and his wife and dog, but still possible,
Spurs - had him before, and Redknaps misses is better apparantly
Chelsea - Torres, Sturridge, Drogba? Anelka ?and the other one
i cant see any of them being in a position to make a bid, but then i didnt think we were, but still cant see it
Your probably right, thing is, nothing would surprise me, and Villa for some peculiar reason seems to have this transit camp feel to it, players come in and almost instantly start to make noises that they have itchy feet.
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He's just another in a long line.
As soon as their performances for us get them into the England squad they get all Billybigbollocks and they see themselves to big for The Villa.
Such is life.
No trophies, champions league football or stupid wages to be had here is there after all.
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He's just another in a long line.
As soon as their performances for us get them into the England squad they get all Billybigbollocks and they see themselves to big for The Villa.
Such is life.
No trophies, champions league football or stupid wages to be had here is there after all.
in fairness though, Millner and Barry both went to Man City who whether we like it or not are the new force in world football, and money no problem,
if Young goes he might well go to Man Utd, so they arent going to clubs who we are competing with just now,
i know that makes it difficult for us ever to be competing, but its not as if are best players are shipping out to say Everton, Spurs, Sunderland, Newcastle etc
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He's just another in a long line.
As soon as their performances for us get them into the England squad they get all Billybigbollocks and they see themselves to big for The Villa.
Such is life.
No trophies, champions league football or stupid wages to be had here is there after all.
in fairness though, Millner and Barry both went to Man City who whether we like it or not are the new force in world football, and money no problem,
if Young goes he might well go to Man Utd, so they arent going to clubs who we are competing with just now,
i know that makes it difficult for us ever to be competing, but its not as if are best players are shipping out to say Everton, Spurs, Sunderland, Newcastle etc
Thats true, and lets face it, for us, that's the important point.
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let him go,i think he is too lazy,a bottler and does'nt know and good pass. albrighton is a hungrier player and is'nt afraid to defend and someone like n,zogbia on the right for ash. i never rated him anyway. up the villa.it will be there loss, so f##k'em
I wonder how many games you have watched this season? Is this the same player that has just been voted player of the season and has now started to be picked regularly for the England squad?
Doesn't know a good pass? Albrightons positional sense and poor defensive rash tackles doesn't make him a better player. I hope he signs a new contract at the Villa.
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Decent player, no better. Stood out in a team that was poor 90% of the time.
Perfectly illustrates what football has become when a player like Stewart Downing can treat a club like ASTON VILLA like this.
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The day Stuart Downing becomes too big for Aston Villa is a very, very sad day.
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It's just selfish to say such a thing imo.
Bent must be thinking "What are they playing at? I've come here, banged in the goals and have improved the team and now they want to scuttle off somwhere else".
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This twat Downing needs to remember that we nursed him back to fitness paying him £50K a week whilst he sat on his arse and than when he was fit he was useless for the rest of the season however we supported him. Now that he has had a half decent season he thinks he is too good for us.
Go to whoever you like...crossroads my arse!
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I am also at a major crossroads in my career. I am thinking of going full-time wearing a paint-stained tracksuit in the car park of B&Q and asking people if they need any tiling done
Damon, I need my bathroom & kitchen tiled, when you free?
Downing? He's the same as all of them. One sniff of ginger & his knickers are round his ankles
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The day Stuart Downing becomes too big for Aston Villa is a very, very sad day.
Thanks for bringing some reality to today. Couldn't agree more. I remember when we lost Andy Gray and John Gidman, I really thought things would never be the same.
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I dont blame Downing - its not right, but it is modern football.
Players now would be a fool to sign a contract more than 12 months before the existing one expires.
Why would he sign one now ? , he can wait a year (so he has a year left) and then say "Pay me what you want, or I will be prepared to play out the remaining year and move for nothing next year"
Exactly what Rooney did, and if it happens to Man U, it will certainly happen to us.
Not Downings fault - dont mean he will leave, he's just making sure he gets one hell of a whacking increase next year.
However, (and I only read the first two pages) it does make me chuckle how a guy who lifted the player of the season trophy less than 4 days ago is now seen as some a a mercanary ****
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let him go,i think he is too lazy,a bottler and does'nt know and good pass. albrighton is a hungrier player and is'nt afraid to defend and someone like n,zogbia on the right for ash. i never rated him anyway. up the villa.it will be there loss, so f##k'em
'Too lazy'; are you talking about your spelling??
As John McEnroe said: 'you cannot be serious'. I've seen Stewart Downing play 40 times this season; yes, 40 times live, not a couple of times on some dodgy, illegal, internet stream. He's been, by far and away, our best player this season. As well as scoring eight goals, which is eight times as many as he scored two seasons ago, he has has many assists and has got back into the England team as a result of his great performances for Villa. If we sell him then we might as well sell the whole team.
All I can think is that your name should end '...joke' rather than '...jock'.
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There is a common theme here...being named Player of the year!
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There is a common theme here...being named Player of the year!
You say that like it's a bad thing?
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i don,t like him, don,t rate him and i think he's a bottler.i have missed two games this season and have had a season ticket since 1989.am i allowed to comment on him now i have watched them live, big nose! :-*
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i don,t like him, don,t rate him and i think he's a bottler.i have missed two games this season and have had a season ticket since 1989.am i allowed to comment on him now i have watched them live, big nose! :-*
You're very welcome to comment on him, but you're still talking bollocks.
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Downing won't be sold this summer even though after his comments he should be, i just don't understand why he made the comment, what's to be gained by it other than the wrath of supporters who havw cheered him all season.
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He is blessed with ability beyond that of most of his colleagues at VP , and out best player by a country mile last season,
Wd would miss him more than Houllier who is the reason he's stalling.
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i don,t like him, don,t rate him and i think he's a bottler.i have missed two games this season and have had a season ticket since 1989.am i allowed to comment on him now i have watched them live, big nose! :-*
Well, I suggest you get down to Specsavers pretty damn quick, and certainly in time for the start of next season, Downing or no Downing.
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The day Stuart Downing becomes too big for Aston Villa is a very, very sad day.
Thanks for bringing some reality to today. Couldn't agree more. I remember when we lost Andy Gray and John Gidman, I really thought things would never be the same.
They weren't. We used the money to put together a better team.
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He's much improved and would be missed, although having said that he'd be worth a lot more if he used his right foot now and again and grew a pair.
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He probably has been our best player this season, but he's not been anything special since he joined us. Milner and Barry you could understand and Young has at least been one of the better players in the premiership since he joined us even if his form hasn't been brilliant this season. But Downing.......I can't imagine any of the top 4 wanting him which makes the interview a bid odd if you ask me. I'd want to keep the club and fans onside unless i was definetely going to leave.
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your right,i really like him now!
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Arsenal are pushing Samir Nasri to make a quick decision on his future after Stewart Downing revealed he is open to leaving Aston Villa.
In demand: Downing has been watched by Arsenal and Liverpool and is set to leave Villa Park this summer
Arsene Wenger has identified the England winger as a potential replacement for Nasri if he leaves this summer.
On the move? Nasri has failed to commit to a new deal with the Gunners
And Downing put the Gunners on red alert on Thursday after saying: 'I know Villa are keen for me to extend my contract as I only have two years left on my deal.
'However, I am 26, and at a major crossroads in my career, so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment.
'The most important thing is to play football, but I do want to play in the Champions League at some point.'
Downing knows he can fulfil his ambitions of playing in Europe's top club competition with Arsenal and Sportsmail understands that the former Middlesbrough man is aware of the Gunners' interest.
But with Liverpool also in the hunt, the North London club know they cannot wait too long before making their move for Downing.
Nasri has been offered a five-year deal in the region of £90,000-per-week - but is stalling on signing.
Gunners sources insist the club are confident the France forward will extend his stay at the Emirates. But Wenger does not want the contract stand-off to drag on much longer so that he has enough time to sign a replacement, namely Downing.
And the Frenchman has instructed the Gunners hierarchy to get a definitive answer from Nasri as quickly as possible.
More...
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1391310/Stewart-Downing-Arsenal-wishlist-Samir-Nasri-snubs-deal.html#ixzz1NV4iDuVa
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I can see why Downing feels he is 'at a crossroads', he ain't got the bollocks cross the road just as he hasn't got the bollocks to make a tackle on the pitch. If anyone offers 15m for him i'll carry him there myself on my back.
How long on the sidelines getting a fortune when injured? - Fuck him off and quick.
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What part of 'I don't want to play for Houllier' do you lot not understand ?
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Where does he say that Tim?
What part of Bent says he does so much?
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To be fair to Downing after the season we've had and the feeling that the club has been drifting from the loftier potential of 2009-10 until now (in that we were challenging seriously for top 4 but since the heskey signing its kind of not really happened), its hardly surprising if his agent has been in his ear, telling him he's had low key approaches from big clubs, that he's just been the best player in a poor team and they are holding him back. Its not a slant to the story I'd necessarily agree with, but I can see how an agent can portray that reality.
This is going to happen, to every club, forever, at least until modern football and the money in the game eats itself. Its unfortunate but not exactly surprising. And part of the reason I refuse to give my money to the sport in the form of a season ticket next year.
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Chop him into two or three pieces and sell him to Wenger, Dalglish and Redknapp.
Crossroads, my arse. Why don't you try cross-dressing, Stewart?
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Downing has been watched by Arsenal? My fucking arse
let's put him in the shop window and see exactly who comes in for him apart from Liverpool
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You'd think after Barry then Milners exit Villa fans would get the message. Last seasons shenanigins can't be helping much either so why are so many so surprised our best players are both wanted and expected to leave.
The silence at the top is deafening, no statements, no plans, no decisions even General K says little and very rarely, I wonder what is going on.
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can you imagine losing Nasri and getting Downing as his replacement, ha ha,
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can you imagine losing Nasri and getting Downing as his replacement, ha ha,
Exactly!
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worryingly yes. Plus Downing tracks back and tackles better than Nasri
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That must be a damning indictment of Nasri's defensive capabilities then.
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worryingly yes. Plus Downing tracks back and tackles better than Nasri
Does that mean Nasri never even gets back into his own half then? I never ever thought I would hear the words 'Downing' and 'tackles better' in the same sentence
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I not sure why everyone hates downing, thought he was our best player by far this season. To be honest im fed up of the quote downing cant tackle i dont care that he cant tackle carlos cuellar cant pass or cross and I dont care about that either.
I can just about take the fact Ash is going but it be a big loss Downing going as well if we had a proper manager in their he would persuade downing to stay!
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Hmm. Villa need to act quickly so this doesn't end up being yet another saga. I like Downing, he's a good player and has been consistent this season. But, after this season I'm struggling to shed a tear over any of our 'stars' leaving. Sell now or have him silenced until this time next year. One way or another I cannot be bothered reading about it all summer.
Paul Faulkner must be feeling a little redundant at the moment seeing as the national media seem to be doing his job for him. Why, they've been trying to sell Downing and Young to LIverpool and Manchester United respectively for almost 6 months now. Good old 'King Kenny' and 'Sir Alex' can't, and will not be denied y'know. It's the natural order of things.
I guess we could just say, "I'm considering buying a season ticket, but I feel like I'm at a crossroads in my life and, at my age, want to see if any other clubs want my support for their possible champions league campaign in 2013."
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The day Stuart Downing becomes too big for Aston Villa is a very, very sad day.
hes not... he just thinks he is...
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And one of the "crossroad" parts of deciding to buy or renew an ST is the thought of being entertained. Downing and Young are people who can do that.
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Indeed, Moet. Indeed.
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The day Stuart Downing becomes too big for Aston Villa is a very, very sad day.
hes not... he just thinks he is...
He's gone all Gareth Southgate on us...
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I dont hate Downing I just think that after we paid him whilst injured he should show a bit of respect and just keep his gob shut
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I'm now cynical enough to expect every one of our bigger stars to shit on us at some point.
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I remember getting shouted at/down when I suggested we had, not 1, but 2 wantaway wingers.
Simple option - fuck him off. Another in a long list who obviously thinks he is far better than he actually is. Looks good when everyone else is playing bad - because he has got good ball skills - end delivery promises more than it delivers. Type of player you want in a scrap - nah. A lightweight.
Can't see any Arsenal rumours coming true mind.
A lot of agents will be talking their players up even more than ever because the glass ceiling (other than for a select few Chelsea / Cit-eh) of wages/turnover kicks in next year and this is the last golden egg opportunity. As ours is at 88% or so I reckon that means some big paycuts.
An a sort of related point does anyone know what value Faulkner brings to our club? Any at all
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I may be wrong but whilst expecting Ash to go for ages I believe Lerner will slap a huge fee on Downing and not budge. After all he does have form in holding out for 'our' price.
With that in mind I expect one more season out of him.
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If we lose Young and Downing this summer we could face relegation. I can't see us creating chances.
After Downing's quotes a couple of weeks ago, it seems to me that someone's had a word with him.
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Downing is a good player, but if we have our normal season, and finish around top 6/Europa league then can Downing expect to be in abetter team than that? Is he good enough for a top-4 side? I don't think he is. Some of these players need to realise there level. Look at SWP, Milner, Parker when he was at Chelsea etc.
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I remember getting shouted at/down when I suggested we had, not 1, but 2 wantaway wingers.
Simple option - fuck him off. Another in a long list who obviously thinks he is far better than he actually is. Looks good when everyone else is playing bad - because he has got good ball skills - end delivery promises more than it delivers. Type of player you want in a scrap - nah. A lightweight.
Can't see any Arsenal rumours coming true mind.
A lot of agents will be talking their players up even more than ever because the glass ceiling (other than for a select few Chelsea / Cit-eh) of wages/turnover kicks in next year and this is the last golden egg opportunity. As ours is at 88% or so I reckon that means some big paycuts.
An a sort of related point does anyone know what value Faulkner brings to our club? Any at all
I think our wage bill is now/will be a lot lower. Carew, Young, Reo Coker, Freidel, Sidwell etc
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If we lose Young and Downing this summer we could face relegation. I can't see us creating chances.
After Downing's quotes a couple of weeks ago, it seems to me that someone's had a word with him.
Firstly we won't lose both this summer. Secondly we would spend enough in that situation on quality for us not to go down.
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If he thinks he's too big for us,fcuk him,sell him and buy Nzogbia who's a better player anyway.
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I'd like to play Champion's League football as well. I'd also like to play in an Ashes series, run faster than Usain Bolt and write a critically acclaimed and commercially successful musical masterpiece. However, unfortunately I am not good enough at these things to acheive any of these aims. I think young Stewart needs to make a critical assessment of his abilities before fucking off the Villa to go supposedly onwards and upwards.
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I not sure why everyone hates downing, thought he was our best player by far this season. To be honest im fed up of the quote downing cant tackle i dont care that he cant tackle carlos cuellar cant pass or cross and I dont care about that either.
I can just about take the fact Ash is going but it be a big loss Downing going as well if we had a proper manager in their he would persuade downing to stay!
Add in a whole lot of other basic things that our players can't do, or at least not very well, and you have the reason why we will forever hover between 6th and 10th. Taking Cuellar as one example, our awful distribution from the back is one of the biggest unseen factors as to why we can hardly ever control a game with much confidence and why watching Villa in almost any given scenario, but particularly when sitting on a lead, can be such a nerve wracking experience
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If a bid of around £18m comes in let him go if that's how he feels. I'd rather have players committed to Aston villa than an unsettled player looking for a way out, bring in a couple of quality players with the money and move onwards- we have lost far better than downing and progressed and will do so again.
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If a bid of around £18m comes in let him go if that's how he feels. I'd rather have players committed to Aston villa than an unsettled player looking for a way out, bring in a couple of quality players with the money and move onwards- we have lost far better than downing and progressed and will do so again.
I'm sure you were saying the same last season about Milner and will be doing so again next summer regards Bent.
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it would be nice for footballers to show a bit of loyalty- we spent big money on downing when he was injured, we gave him a platform to get back in the england team etc. maybe he could repay that by signing a new contract.
but i guess footballers are just not like that. they are selfish and never take responsibility. its always the clubs fault for poor results and a lack of success. never mind that the players poor performances on the pitch are actually the main reason. they seem to think they have some divine right to go and play at the top clubs and at the highest level, even if their talent, attitude and performances don't deserve it.
that said, i think downings comments from this week are more than a little influenced by his agent/adviser. the other week downing was happy to stay, could see where the club was going etc. doesn't put you in as strong a position when negotiating a new deal. so his agent tells him to back track a bit, give it the old "champions league ambition, key point in my career" etc etc. you make villa scared they will lose the player and they are going to give up more in negotiations. namely more money for downing (and for the agent). no doubt hes also been shopping downing around other clubs as well, unsettling downing. after all, if he gets downing a nice big money move somewhere, mr agent is also going to be picking up a nice fat bonus.
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I'm on page seven of the thread - but my immediate thought would be get rid of Ash and Downing and get Larsson and N'Zogbia.
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Come on chris, we both know there is no future in holding onto players if they are not committed and have an eye on the door, it just unsettled people and causes problems , if downing is inkling for a move it makes sense to cash in now and get the big money for him and get players who are committed to Aston villa.
The players hold all the aces these days and clubs have no real
Power once a player gets into the last 2 yrs of his contract, downing joined us as serious condensers for champions league and we are now a long way from that situation.
Sadly we have little option if he is not interested in extending his deal.
A good shout jj, get nzogbia and larsson to provide with along with Marc, and we'd still have £20m plus leftover to strengthen the squad plus whatever else we raise in sales.
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It's the bit about progressing that I disagreed with, Eastie. Until we find a way of holding on to our better players we're always going to be also rans.
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This stuff about players having their heads turned is a bit wishy washy if you ask me - mainly becauase they don't need their heads turning - that implies some about turn in the way they view things, as if they were perfectly happy to be here forever until someone pointed out to them that clubs like Man City and United win trophies and play in the CL.
The fact is that they all want to play at the highest level, and if they can't do it here, they'll do it elsewhere. Until we can provide at the very least evidence of establishing our credentials in the league (being "in amongst it") this will always happen.
What I don't understand - and I've only read it on this thread, so maybe it is incorrect - is why we give players like Downing and Young four year rather than five year contracts, as it makes that awkward "two years left" mment happen sooner than you'd like.
I wouldn't disagree with any of that.
The staff that are choosing to leave (Milner, Young, Downing) are the ones who joined us when the club was unequivocal about its ambition to be "in amongst it" and no doubt believe in their own ability to play at that level. Why wouldn't they? We bought them in on the basis that we also believed they could play at that level.
I don't know why we tend to offer 4 year contracts rather than 5 and don't know if other clubs do things differently.
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I accept that chris, but we are in a catch 22 situation, I agree until we are successful and in the champions league we will have this problem when a player gets into the final 2 yrs of a deal.
Sadly that's the way the game has gone and players hold the power , the gap is growing and the finances are such that I really do not see us getting into the champions league without massive investment as man city have done.
I have resigned myself to top 6 being as good as it will get for the foreseeable future, but that is not enough for ambitious international players and the champions league is their holy Grail.
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If as expected DOwning goes to Liverpool it will primarily be for money firstly. Just as it was when he left Boro to comer here.
Secondary reasons would be that they look more likely to be heading upwards than we do.
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It's the bit about progressing that I disagreed with, Eastie. Until we find a way of holding on to our better players we're always going to be also rans.
In the summer of 2009 when he signed, Downing bought into the 'Proud History, Bright Future' vision of the board. Sadly, 5 years on, we haven't progressed according to the plan having just avoided relegation - that's why Downing will move on. After all, it's a short career and ambitious players want medals and cups to reflect back on. It's the same pattern with Barry, Milner, Young and now Downing.
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None of the top 4 will touch Downing, he might win a cup with Liverpool but then he could win a cup with us.
His agent is trying to engineer a move or trying to get him a nice pay rise at the Villa which quite frankly he doesnt deserve.
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The problem with our anger is that we expect the players to have the same feelings towards the club as we do, or at least some degree of it.
Almost all players couldn't give a toss about the club they play for.
Football is such a strange industry, surely the only one where the core workers dictate to Management on a near total level.
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The problem with our anger is that we expect the players to have the same feelings towards the club as we do, or at least some degree of it.
Almost all players couldn't give a toss about the club they play for.
Football is such a strange industry, surely the only one where the core workers dictate to Management on a near total level.
I agree
Most footballers would be stacking the shelves at Lidl if they had to find another job.
We get told football is a business but most business would have 75% plus of their turnover going on wages.
Players sign a 5 year deal but break it at the drop of a hat but clubs can't move players on if the player doesn't want to leave
We're doomed.....
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I'm afraid Chris we might already be alsorans.
Financially we can't compete, and probably never will.Our status now, i believe is to buy good up and coming players, and accept that if they are successful they will want to move on.
If i was GH now, if i could get Walker, and a good LB for the money off Downing, then i would do it.
The good thing is, we have plenty of good young players coming through.
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If a bid of around £18m comes in let him go if that's how he feels. I'd rather have players committed to Aston villa than an unsettled player looking for a way out, bring in a couple of quality players with the money and move onwards- we have lost far better than downing and progressed and will do so again.
That's true, but what isn't true is that we haven't lost so many of our better players in such a short time. Milner, Barry, soon to be gone Young, and now Downing looking for a move. This isn't good for the club.
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If he does not want to stay then let him go now and get as much cash for him as we can. We dont want to hold on to him for another 12 months otherwise we will end up in the same position as we do with Young now where we only get a fraction of wht he is really worth. Lets put some faith in the kids and people who want to be part of the club.
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This stuff about players having their heads turned is a bit wishy washy if you ask me - mainly becauase they don't need their heads turning - that implies some about turn in the way they view things, as if they were perfectly happy to be here forever until someone pointed out to them that clubs like Man City and United win trophies and play in the CL.
The fact is that they all want to play at the highest level, and if they can't do it here, they'll do it elsewhere. Until we can provide at the very least evidence of establishing our credentials in the league (being "in amongst it") this will always happen.
What I don't understand - and I've only read it on this thread, so maybe it is incorrect - is why we give players like Downing and Young four year rather than five year contracts, as it makes that awkward "two years left" mment happen sooner than you'd like.
I wouldn't disagree with any of that.
The staff that are choosing to leave (Milner, Young, Downing) are the ones who joined us when the club was unequivocal about its ambition to be "in amongst it" and no doubt believe in their own ability to play at that level. Why wouldn't they? We bought them in on the basis that we also believed they could play at that level.
I don't know why we tend to offer 4 year contracts rather than 5 and don't know if other clubs do things differently.
The difference between 4 and 5 years is presumably a substantial upswing in weekly wages; asking the player to make that further 'commitment'.
It's laughable really; Downing - a forgotten player in Smoggieland, nursing a bad injury. Then he makes a move - "strongly influenced by MON" apparently - for a substantial pay rise, gets well, plays okay, returns to the England fold and is now Mr Big Bollox who thinks that Merseyside offers yet greater opportunities.
Interesting how many Villa players have played for - or at least been considered by - Capello. Don't they 'get it'? It's actually quite a good thing to be at a club like Villa, where you can strut your stuff every week, mix with Internationals and still be in London for a night out (if you wish to do that) within 2 hours.
I'm pissed off! - part of me agrees that we should get what we can and get rid; part of me says "F*ck it, we'll hang on and let you 'suffer' in B6".
In the end, if the Scouse tw*ts want to give us £20m+ let's do the deal and move on. Anything less, let's keep him and get another season of football out of him.
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If he does not want to stay then let him go now and get as much cash for him as we can. We dont want to hold on to him for another 12 months otherwise we will end up in the same position as we do with Young now where we only get a fraction of wht he is really worth. Lets put some faith in the kids and people who want to be part of the club.
exactly this.
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To be fair, it's not surprising. If you didn't know the long term plan for your workplace or who your boss is even going to be you'd give some serious thought about moving on, especially if the guy who might be coming to boss you isn't rated as highly as your last boss.
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Downing has been watched by Arsenal? My fucking arse
let's put him in the shop window and see exactly who comes in for him apart from Liverpool
Oh come on they did watch him at close quarters last but 1 game of the season! and I agree with you.
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To be fair, it's not surprising. If you didn't know the long term plan for your workplace or who your boss is even going to be you'd give some serious thought about moving on, especially if the guy who might be coming to boss you isn't rated as highly as your last boss.
True, I've said elsewhere that the vacuum and uncertainty serves no purpose and increasingly people do get disconcerted. However, in the footballing world it is pretty common. How many managers did Downing see at 'Boro? Didn't seem to affect him there.
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There's no loyalty these days i would fuck him and anyone else
Beginning to sound like Imogen Thomas.
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The vacume created over the Houlier situation is my concern here. The longer the uncertainty over the Managers position is concerned the more disruption to the squad. This situation needs sorting out now.
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I am 26 and at a major crossroads in my career so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment.
"When I was injured that made me realise what it can be like to be out for such a long time. It hurt....
[/quo
...so I vowed to never to attempt another tackle as long as I live.
Would appear to be a very accurate statement.....
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The vacume created over the Houlier situation is my concern here. The longer the uncertainty over the Managers position is concerned the more disruption to the squad. This situation needs sorting out now.
yep. whether its a real vacuum or not, the perception is we're on automatic pilot. They need to make a statement early next week latest.
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The vacume created over the Houlier situation is my concern here. The longer the uncertainty over the Managers position is concerned the more disruption to the squad. This situation needs sorting out now.
I.agree.
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You could give a player a 1 day deal or 500 years at the end of the day the contract isn't really worth the paper it's cost to print. Player power generally wins these days and if someone wants to move because of some other attraction then no-one is going to stand in their way. If any player wants to leave my club then be my guest. If you don't want to play then f*ck off. We will find someone (not necessarily as good) to replace you and we will be here. I was here before you came and I will be here after you have gone.
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Hell some of you are waiting to see who the manager is and what signings come in before renewing your season tickets. Stew is still signed on for another two years and the transfer window isn't even open yet.
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There's no loyalty these days i would fuck him and anyone else
Beginning to sound like Imogen Thomas.
Quality ......
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its funny, hes not good enough for the champs league clubs, and its then down to spurs and liverpool as to his most likely destination, and thats only because liverpool have fallen so far, and spurs willl buy anything with a pulse...
every single liverpool fan i know dont want him... they think he is crap... my mate calls him stewart downsindrome!
be funny to see him rotting on their bench at his "crossroads"...
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My take on things is Daglish clearly wanted Downing more than Ashley, but knew Downing wasn't for sale so went for Ashley. Man Utd. have come in and disrupted things and Ashley's heading there, so a word has been had in Downing's ear and he's after him again now.
Very frustrating, but that's what happens in football. Which is why it annoys me so much we're so 'nice' at times. Why we can't just go and take someone's manager I'll never know.
When we were (wrongly) accussed of tapping up Bent in January no one gave a shit.
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As stated elsewhere contracts don't actually count for anything,so if Downing was a reasonable human being he should sign a contract if only to entitle the club that showed faith in and paid him substantial wages whilst he was injured/shit to demand a higher fee.
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It's incredibly rare for a player to simply down tools because they can't get the move they want. Downing will only leave if the board decide to accept an offer for him.
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It's incredibly rare for a player to simply down tools because they can't get the move they want. Downing will only leave if the board decide to accept an offer for him.
Exactly, I'm just glad that those screaming "sell the bastard" are not in charge of our transfer policy.
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My take on things is Daglish clearly wanted Downing more than Ashley, but knew Downing wasn't for sale so went for Ashley. Man Utd. have come in and disrupted things and Ashley's heading there, so a word has been had in Downing's ear and he's after him again now.
Couldn't the club do what we did with Barry the first time and put a major price on him if Liverpool come in with an offer this summer? From what I've read he doesn't sound as if he's desperate to go immediately, anyway. Who knows, a lot can happen in a season and we could end up above them next May, in a CL spot of our own, if the Board's plans for rebuilding come to fruition.
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If Downing really wants to leave it'll be on our terms. With two years left on his contract we can demand full market value for him, unlike Young. If Liverpool or anyone else don't want to pay it, Downing won't be going anywhere.
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My take on things is Daglish clearly wanted Downing more than Ashley, but knew Downing wasn't for sale so went for Ashley. Man Utd. have come in and disrupted things and Ashley's heading there, so a word has been had in Downing's ear and he's after him again now.
I think you're close. Downing has definately been tapped up by Liverpool, thus the statement and change of attitude from two weeks ago.
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I see it like this. 2 years left on a contract = sell at above market value
1 year left on a contract = sell at realistic (close to what we paid) price
january window with less than 6mths left = sell at a loss
bosman = player leaves for nothing
So if Liverpoo want him this year then starting bid will need to be 15m +
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My take on things is Daglish clearly wanted Downing more than Ashley, but knew Downing wasn't for sale so went for Ashley. Man Utd. have come in and disrupted things and Ashley's heading there, so a word has been had in Downing's ear and he's after him again now.
Couldn't the club do what we did with Barry the first time and put a major price on him if Liverpool come in with an offer this summer? From what I've read he doesn't sound as if he's desperate to go immediately, anyway. Who knows, a lot can happen in a season and we could end up above them next May, in a CL spot of our own, if the Board's plans for rebuilding come to fruition.
Well in the mental world of football transfer fees; if Ashley Young with one year left on his contract is worth £15-£18 million Stewpot should be worth about £40 million. That should scare the blighters off (...saying that, they did shell out £35 million for Carroll).
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Its amazing how things can turn around, if Mr Lerner moves fast, and he must have targets in mind to manage the club, if and its a big IF, maybe just maybe we end up keeping Downing, even possibly Young, get a high profile manager, we have a chairman that's prepared to commit funds, its possible.
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If Downing really wants to leave it'll be on our terms. With two years left on his contract we can demand full market value for him, unlike Young. If Liverpool or anyone else don't want to pay it, Downing won't be going anywhere.
Yes he will, no different to Young. If a player isn't happy he will move. Fuck the ungrateful c**t off as soon as possible, hopefully he'll get everything he deserves.
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Someone on twitter has said that Liverpool made an offer for Downing in January which was rejected by Houllier. Downing only found out about this offer after he made his "I love Villa Park" comments and now wants out. Apparently said "Aston Villa will be raging but I don't give a sh*t"
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Someone on twitter has said that Liverpool made an offer for Downing in January which was rejected by Houllier. Downing only found out about this offer after he made his "I love Villa Park" comments and now wants out. Apparently said "Aston Villa will be raging but I don't give a sh*t"
Downing and his agent would have been fully aware if Liverpool were going to make a bid, certainly before Villa did, or milliseconds after the bid was received. Its naive to think otherwise. He's been tapped up since Young was heading to Old Trafford. £20M please.
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Downing is a little shit. End of story. Go and being a fecking pansy elsewhere. If it is to be, feck him off for 20 million. Get N'Zogbia down the left, Albrighton the right and create chances for Bent to stick away.
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I concur with the two posts above. It's surprising to see him pining for a move away after one good season to say the least. I say get rid and start again. It's not worth the will he-won't he aggravation it causes.
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There is no way the club will consider letting Downing go if Young leaves.
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Rather annoying from Stewart, considering he came to us on one leg, we paid his wages which are probably very significant for over 6 months without him playing a game, he has one decent season, when the team is really struggling, gets back in the England side and then starts to stir up wanting away.
God I hate modern day football.
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Rather annoying from Stewart, considering he came to us on one leg, we paid his wages which are probably very significant for over 6 months without him playing a game, he has one decent season, when the team is really struggling, gets back in the England side and then starts to stir up wanting away.
Could he be a contender for a Steve Hodge Award?
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Rather annoying from Stewart, considering he came to us on one leg, we paid his wages which are probably very significant for over 6 months without him playing a game, he has one decent season, when the team is really struggling, gets back in the England side and then starts to stir up wanting away.
Could he be a contender for a Steve Hodge Award?
Fucking hell, I was just about to post that there is a whiff of the Hodge about this smog munching fool.
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Nick harper once a player wants out it's best to cash in and get rid rather than keep an unhappy player- it's not the clubs fault he's a greedy ungrateful tosser- get rid at a big fee and let's het players who are hungry to play for Aston villa .
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Disappointing.
It really is as simple as this, if we have a promising young player who gets into the England squad, not long from from that point, i.e the next available transfer window, we are going to lose them to a club in the Champions league (or one expecting to be soon). Even if we appear to be on the cusp of qualifying we will lose the player (see Barry).
Anybody calling for Albrighton to be included in the national team?
Villa need to come out fighting here. As others have said, get rid now or shut Downing up until next season. Anything to avoid a 'saga'.
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Hmmm. He's had a good season, but even before this little twist I had the feeling he was our Player of the Year largely in part to the indifferent form of many around him. He was good, but not great. Most of the 'starting X1s' I posted in pre-match threads had Albrighton on the right and Young on the left; I still find it difficult to really warm to Downing, he doesn't excite me as a player and I didn't like seeing him in England squads before he joined Villa. It's different when he signs for your club, of course - you support him and want to see him do well, naturally.
Losing him and Ash in one summer would be a blow, I admit. But while I do think it'll be tough to replace Young, I think we can replace Downing far easier - N'Zogbia is an obvious candidate, Matt Jarvis another. Downing, a good season behind him and back in the England squad, is probably at the peak of his value now and £15-18m now should be considered. More than considered.
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Trying to use the press to engineer a move away when you've still got two years on your contract.
Good luck with that, Downing.
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Didn't sound like he wanted away when SSN spoke to him at the England camp. He has two years left and we have no manager right now. He has every right to wait and see what happens before committing. If we sold Young, brought in a poor replacement and brought in Curbishley or someone, then he might well want to consider his future - and he wouldn't be able to do that if he signed a new deal. I say we wait before the people start the insults. If he does make noises and kick up a fuss about leaving, then start. I just think he's being cautious.
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Downing the new Hodge hahahaha, I hated that fucker before the 86 WC, hated hearing fellow Villans saying "Our man Hodge" and that day against Oxford at VP I could (if I wasn't a mild pleasant natured person ;-) ) have punched his light's out.
Downing at the moment is just getting my right eyebrow raised, and IMO is a long way to go before he gets the Hodge Hatred.
To show how "mild mannered" I am for my "sins" when I lived in Birmingham a friend of mine was............I can hardly believe I'm about to admit this on a Villa forum, Robert Hopkins. Now there's a name to get most of the older Villans back up. lol
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You don't have to be a genius to know what this (http://tinyurl.com/3vdfwwg) means.
If somebody wants to pay silly money, then fine. Otherwise I expect him to play well until the moment his contract expires.
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i wouldnt put downing in the hodge bracket yet , although if we do play norwich early next season and he passes back and gives away a goal i will concede he is indeed the new hodgie!
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How many times have we seen a Villa player in an England tracksuit talking about playing on the 'biggest stage'?
1 decent season.
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His comments re MON and Houllier are interesting. On the one hand he credits MON for giving him the belief to get back in the England team, no mention of Houllier's contribution. On the other, he seems non plussed whether Houllier stays or not.
Hardly a ringing endorsement for Houllier from our player of the season. You would think that he of all the players would be appreciative of the supposed "improvements" under Houllier, but not a dickie bird of praise from Downing in a lenghty press conference, just the bland "I had no problems with him" and "I've enjoyed working with him". Yet he still has time to praise our former manager.
I think that people have lost sight of the fact that Houllier is not the man for the Villa job healthy or otherwise. It seems the sympahty that has come from him being ill has clouded people's view of how bad he has been. If players like Downing and Young have very little good to say about him, I think it shows what was suspected throughout the season, that the players dont have time for him. It's not just a select few who have had rows with him.
As for Downing seemingly wanting out...can you blame him? A player in or around the England team should be looking at playing Champions League football. He joined us on the basis that we might be a club to challenge for it and now we arent. 12 months on he will be the next Barry/Milner/Young anyway in what is becoming a depressingly familiar theme. Maybe we should sell him now, maximise the funds. Or maybe the owner will insist in getting an out of favour player the manager doesnt rate in lieu.
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The article just proves to me it's his agent trying to get a move going, and Downing just wants to challenge for honours. Can't blame him for that. If he wants to go, ship him off for a very nice fee. If he wants to stay but just wants assurances on us pushing to achieve then give him the assurances. It's what we all want, Aston Villa winning things.
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We have to accept that we're losing Young and Downnig soon.
The bloke behind me in the Upper Trinity will be glad that Young's off - he spent the whole of last season lambasting him and the 'Downing's a wuss' brigade will be doing cartwheels.
Marvelous eh !
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I'd tell him he can fuck off but only if the price suits us and we get the better deal then I hope the ****** breaks his foot again
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Also he might have to go abroad, would Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal or City buy him?
I think not
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I don't want our best players to leave, and I don't hate them for being ambitious.
But I hope he doesn't expect us to bend over and be shafted just so he can get exactly what he wants.
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I can't see the club selling Downing this close-season. January, maybe, if the offers are right and things have stabilised at the club; but not now.
As said before, the club is lucky that Capello sees it as a talent-broker; he spends a lot of time watching us and players like Bent, Downing, Albrighton, GA etc should feel reassured that he will continue to watch them.
But, it's all down to the next couple of weeks.
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He will be 28 next summer. That will mean he has no chance of United or Arsenal.
He is also not a big enough name for Chelsea or Man City and Liverpool will buy a Left winger this summer.
Therefore he is playing a dangerous game with Villa. It also means he has to play the whole of next season like he has this season. I am not so sure he is capable of that.
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I don't want our best players to leave, and I don't hate them for being ambitious.
But I hope he doesn't expect us to bend over and be shafted just so he can get exactly what he wants.
Exactly how I see it. I don't care how often a player is prompted by reporters, the likes of Downing and Young should not be touting themselves, however politely, via England press conferences.
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I don't want our best players to leave, and I don't hate them for being ambitious.
But I hope he doesn't expect us to bend over and be shafted just so he can get exactly what he wants.
If he wants away then fans turning on him helps him feel better about it.
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Not the Biggest fan of Downing but accept he has been an important player this season, repeating the habit of losing our best players every season is not a sustainable strategy to succeed.
The Young and Downing money could enable us to rebuild the squad and I think that a massive overhaul is needed. But lets get the manager position sorted out please.
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I don't want our best players to leave, and I don't hate them for being ambitious.
But I hope he doesn't expect us to bend over and be shafted just so he can get exactly what he wants.
If he wants away then fans turning on him helps him feel better about it.
I am not turning on him. I want to see him playing well for the Villa, from now until he leaves.
Hating him is just a bonus
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I don't want our best players to leave, and I don't hate them for being ambitious.
But I hope he doesn't expect us to bend over and be shafted just so he can get exactly what he wants.
If he wants away then fans turning on him helps him feel better about it.
I am not turning on him. I want to see him playing well for the Villa, from now until he leaves.
Hating him is just a bonus
I know you're not but plenty are. If he's trying to engineer a move now the having fans turn on him now makes it easier to walk away.
I still think he's just giving notice, like Ashley last year, that unless things improve massively he'll be off next summer. I don't blame him in the slightest but reserve the right to abuse him when it happens.
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He's off to Liverpool if they can meet the asking price.
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Might not be the worst thing. Ship 'em out for big money and reinvest big this Summer to rebuild and then have another assault.
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NO player is bigger the OUR club...
if he want to go the fcuk him off, replacements are always around the corner i.e
young - nzogbia
downing - phillips or johnson
every-cloud and all that!!
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Personally, I'd let Downing and Ash go and sign N'Zogbia and Larsson - leaving us with about £20m profit.
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It sums up modern football,the guy has a decent six months and thinks he should be in a champions league team. A few good performances in an England shirt and he turns into Steve Hodge.
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Personally, I'd let Downing and Ash go and sign N'Zogbia and Larsson - leaving us with about £20m profit.
Good point jj, although a lot depends on how the new manager likes to play, he may not want to use 2 wide men and we have marc already here , interesting few weeks ahead i feel.
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Quite simply no player should be allowed to leave Villa until the new manager is in place. What the fuk has happened to football where the manager is having no say on who stays and who goes. If Liverpool want Downing they can pay us a fukin inflated fee or we say no your not for sale - similar to Barry. It worked that season and it can work again. And is Downing thick anyway - the last time I checked Liverpool were not in the Champions League and I think they have as much chance as no one next season of entering into it. Now, if he is on about a potential lucractive move to Shakhtar Donetsk, then that's different as he would walk into their side probably and get a CL place he so covets. God these blokes are in another world. Agents should be Struan(g) up.
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Personally, I'd let Downing and Ash go and sign N'Zogbia and Larsson - leaving us with about £20m profit.
Me too. Start with N'Zogbia on the left, Albrighton on the right next season; use Larsson if we want a tighter 4-4-2 or play him on the right of a midfield three if we go 4-3-3/4-5-1.
Don't tell Wigan would turn down £10m for N'Zogbia - and Larsson's on a free.
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The problem is that Larsson isn't as good as Young or Downing and Albrighton is still very young. We need players of equal or better ability or well have more talk of transition for another year.
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I don't want our best players to leave, and I don't hate them for being ambitious.
But I hope he doesn't expect us to bend over and be shafted just so he can get exactly what he wants.
If he wants away then fans turning on him helps him feel better about it.
He earns £60k a week, I'm sure he give a rats arse what the fans think. There's no defending his words, as I said before Young has earned his shot at the big time. Downing was injured when we bought him, if he's using the fact that MON has gone then why was he so average when he was still here? He had a good season in an average team, shut up and earn your fucking money you whinging twat.
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That's why, for me, Larsson isn't a nailed-on starter. But he gives you more toughness and tenacity at RM, so you can take Albrighton out of the firing line when he needs a rest. Larsson is also a genuine RM rather than a RW - we've not had one for a while - so he'd give us more tactical flexibility, be comfortable playing CM or, as I said, on the right of a midfield trio.
N'Zobgia, for me, is at least as good as Downing. Albrighton is young but not that young - 22 later this year. Ready to play more regularly, IMO.
That covers our wide positions and allows us to recruit an attacking midfielder, perhaps.
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Valid points Merv, it's just Larsson always looked rather limited when I've seen him play for Blues. Albrighton ought to be ready to pay a bigger part this season, he certainly looked the part during the first half of the season but he did tail off (as younger players invariably do). The last game I saw him play was Wigan and he looked like a ghost of the effervescent ball of energy from pre-Christmas. Surely just a confidence issue from playing in a struggling side. I hope he'll step up and seeing as we do not take first team training at Villa, we'll have to see what the new manager thinks when he gets appointed I guess.
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larssons set piece delivery impressed me greatly on occassions i saw him last season -on a free he would be a useful addition.
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as someone who never thought he was any good and still dont, i would actually love it if he shipped out to Liverpool or Spurs or anywhere really for a load of dosh,
i'm sure we could get someone else in who would be a lot better with the cash
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Agreed john e!
Downing's had a pretty decent season...but he should! He's a senior professional on a lot of money who should be able to have an influence on a game. Haven't seen him do that very much at all. His work rate has improved recently but it has been really crap at times - in my head I still have the image of Kyle Walker pointing to Jarvis and telling Downing to mark him - Downing didn't and we went down at home to Wolves!!! Good players don't do that. I think he's got great potential and keep waiting for him to do great things but he rarely does. I can't really see him making a big impact with any of the CL teams. In his defence I think I would not commit yet either, simply because of the GH situation. Bring in the right man and I'm pretty sure he will be happy to stay. Ash going to ManU is different. As a player who wouldn't want a go with them? His dead ball delivery has been pisspoor at times and we waste so many potential scoring chances because of it. Larsson's been good in that department in a struggling team.
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So some people criticise Downing's mercenary attitude and want us to sign N'Zogbia. Fuck me.
Matt Jarvis please.
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N'Zogbia for Young, Jarvis for Downing.
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N'Zogbia for Young, Jarvis for Downing.
We have albrighton here and the new manager may well not to want to play with 2 wide men in the team.
If it is hughes i would expect ireland to play a key role in the team as hughes got him playing superbly under him at city.
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Downing will only ever be a good player. He'll never be really good, let alone great. As long as we get good money and signed someone as good or (hopefully) better, I wouldn't be too sad.
Frankly I'm more excited having Albrighton in our line up and kicking on to be a potential Villa great.
Downing will only flatter to decieve at a "bigger" club.
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N'Zogbia for Young, Jarvis for Downing.
Martinez has said that Wigan would only let N'Zogbia go to a Chumps League club, although I doubt that would hold.
Larsson, Jarvis, Phillips if we are looking UK but you half hope we might find an exciting foreign prospect
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N'Zogbia for Young, Jarvis for Downing.
Martinez has said that Wigan would only let N'Zogbia go to a Chumps League club, although I doubt that would hold.
Larsson, Jarvis, Phillips if we are looking UK but you half hope we might find an exciting foreign prospect
Phillips as in swp?
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N'Zogbia for Young, Jarvis for Downing.
Martinez has said that Wigan would only let N'Zogbia go to a Chumps League club, although I doubt that would hold.
Larsson, Jarvis, Phillips if we are looking UK but you half hope we might find an exciting foreign prospect
Phillips as in swp?
Leighton.
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So some people criticise Downing's mercenary attitude and want us to sign N'Zogbia. Fuck me.
Matt Jarvis please.
What's the problem with N'Zogbia? Birmingham made a move for him, Wigan agreed the fee, Birmingham wouldn't pay his wages (the same reason they missed out on several players in the last year), N'Zogbia returned to Wigan and played his arse off for the club.
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N'Zogbia for Young, Jarvis for Downing.
Martinez has said that Wigan would only let N'Zogbia go to a Chumps League club, although I doubt that would hold.
Larsson, Jarvis, Phillips if we are looking UK but you half hope we might find an exciting foreign prospect
Phillips as in swp?
Good grief no - Phillips as in young Blackpool winger, or possibly Leslie. Ding dong.
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Sporting Life (http://www.sportinglife.com/football/premiership/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/11/06/01/SOCCER_England_Nightlead.html&BID=312)
BENT HOPES YOUNG AND DOWNING STAY
Darren Bent has pleaded with his England and Aston Villa team-mates Ashley Young and Stewart Downing to remain at their club - and continue to help him deliver goals.
Bent has benefited from the service provided by Manchester United target Young and Downing - linked strongly with Liverpool - since his £18 million move from Sunderland to Villa in January.
It has helped him to become a first-choice striker for England and he will be looking to score for the fourth successive international on Saturday against Switzerland at Wembley.
Bent said: "I've been in both of their ears trying to convince them (Young and Downing) to stay.
"They are two top, top players and, if we can hold onto them next season, it will be fantastic.
"I hope they stay. What is going on in their careers and lives is down to them.
"But for me, being a striker, you want the best service and they are probably the two best wingers in the league.
"If we can keep hold of them two I will be very, very happy."
Bent netted nine times in 16 games for Villa and carried that form into the international arena with his goals against Denmark and Wales after breaking his duck in the autumn against Switzerland.
He said: "A lot of people, when I made the move, were questioning if it was the right decision.
"I always knew in my head it was the right decision for me and my performances for Villa have been good.
"I've managed to get goals and my England career has picked up as well. For me, it was the perfect move at the right time."
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Nice to see Benty being there to keep Downing and Ash on their feet while at Camp England. Barry and Milner came back with heads turned from it.
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I might sound like a sad sack here but I think we'd be vulnerable to losing Bent too if we hadn't just signed him. Away on England duty, had a great season etc.
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Read his comments today. Bent loves it at the Villa.
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Controversial but could this actually be good news. It wasn't so long ago that Downing was the target for the boo-boys and it is possible that - especially with a new manger - that he will return to that sort of form.
For once villa are in a pretty strong position here in the sense that he still has two years left on his contract so will attract the maximum fee. Furthermore, he is almost 28, so his value will start depreciating soon (from an age perspective).
If we could get 15m (or more) then I would sell him and get a hungrier player who is looking to prove himself. With 15m for Young, our new manger would have a decent "war-chest" to shape the team into his style.
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Controversial but could this actually be good news. It wasn't so long ago that Downing was the target for the boo-boys and it is possible that - especially with a new manger - that he will return to that sort of form.
For once villa are in a pretty strong position here in the sense that he still has two years left on his contract so will attract the maximum fee. Furthermore, he is almost 28, so his value will start depreciating soon (from an age perspective).
If we could get 15m (or more) then I would sell him and get a hungrier player who is looking to prove himself. With 15m for Young, our new manger would have a decent "war-chest" to shape the team into his style.
£18m please .
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A list of replacements off the top of my head:
Expensive: Gervihio, Adam Johnson, Witsel
Cheap: Hoillet, Lasson, Jarvis, Chamberlain
Buy one from the top and one from the bottom, complemented by Albrighton and I think we would have the wide positions covered for a good few years. We would almost certainly least break even and possibly have enough to buy a young prodigy for one of the other positions we need.
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Read his comments today. Bent loves it at the Villa.
I read them, he loves it at Villa at the moment. He probably loved Sunderland too. I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, we are vulnerable and if Bent was 2 years away from the end of his contract he'd more than likely be making the same noises Downing is
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Read his comments today. Bent loves it at the Villa.
I read them, he loves it at Villa at the moment. He probably loved Sunderland too. I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, we are vulnerable and if Bent was 2 years away from the end of his contract he'd more than likely be making the same noises Downing is
Agreed, that probably is the reality so we should be scouting the world to find a young replacement for him now i.e. start planning. My knowledge is far from extensive so I will pluck some predictable names to use as an example.
So if we think Bent is likely to leave in two years time we need to try and guess who will be peaking at that point. My guess would be The Fonz, Connor Wickham and Daniel Sturridge.
1. The Fonz is ours already so what can we do to make him better? I'd suggest sending him on loan.
2. Connor Wickham. Could we do a deal with Ipswich where he signs with us but goes back to Ipswich on loan for two seasons. It would make him more affordable and match ready for when Bent departs.
3. I actually think that Sturridge would be a good punt for us now as he has the versatility to play in a number of roles.
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His comments today irritated me a bit, but such is life. We shall see what happens.
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So some people criticise Downing's mercenary attitude and want us to sign N'Zogbia. Fuck me.
Matt Jarvis please.
What's the problem with N'Zogbia? Birmingham made a move for him, Wigan agreed the fee, Birmingham wouldn't pay his wages (the same reason they missed out on several players in the last year), N'Zogbia returned to Wigan and played his arse off for the club.
He's agitated for a move at every club he's been at. Not sure he's honoured a contract yet. I wouldn't say no if he was available but wouldn't expect him to stay too long. Then again, I'm getting used to that.
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N'Zogbia had agreed wages with SHA and when on the verge of signing demanded 10k a week more. SHA quite rightly told him to fuck off.
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So some people criticise Downing's mercenary attitude and want us to sign N'Zogbia. Fuck me.
Matt Jarvis please.
What's the problem with N'Zogbia? Birmingham made a move for him, Wigan agreed the fee, Birmingham wouldn't pay his wages (the same reason they missed out on several players in the last year), N'Zogbia returned to Wigan and played his arse off for the club.
He's agitated for a move at every club he's been at. Not sure he's honoured a contract yet. I wouldn't say no if he was available but wouldn't expect him to stay too long. Then again, I'm getting used to that.
Funny thing is, if Ash was saying he'd honour his contract so he could earn even more of a fortune from his next move and we wouldn't get a penny, we'd probably be slagging the life out of him.
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N'Zogbia had agreed wages with SHA and when on the verge of signing demanded 10k a week more. SHA quite rightly told him to fuck off.
To be fair, a quick tour round that shit tip would move anyone to demand an extra £10k.
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Read his comments today. Bent loves it at the Villa.
Downing also said he loves it at the Villa, not so long back.
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Read his comments today. Bent loves it at the Villa.
Downing also said he loves it at the Villa, not so long back.
To quote Martin Gore, "Words are meaningless, and forgettable".
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He's agitated for a move at every club he's been at. Not sure he's honoured a contract yet. I wouldn't say no if he was available but wouldn't expect him to stay too long. Then again, I'm getting used to that.
This is the Charles N'Zogbia who spent five years at Newcastle, yes? Put in a transfer request not long after Joe Kinnear called him 'Insomnia' during a press conference?
He was painted as the villain for pulling out of the Birmingham move, and I'm not surprised if his wage demands were excessive - as reported at the time. But since Birmingham since saw several moves collapse because they couldn't pay the wages, I'm not so sure it was all down to N'Zogbia being greedy.
Point is, I don't really see N'Zogbia being the disruptive influence. He's had two PL clubs in seven years.
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N'Zogbia had agreed wages with SHA and when on the verge of signing demanded 10k a week more. SHA quite rightly told him to fuck off.
To be fair, a quick tour round that shit tip would move anyone to demand an extra £10k.
10k+therapy+356 holidays a year+plus a personal guarantee from the chairman that you would never have to wear the club badge....at the very least.
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Reports suggesting SD will go to 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' for 10 mil must be a piss take. A player as important to the club as he is with 2 years left on his contract should be worth 15 mil at least given what we paid for him. We can't afford to lose him yet, sad how it's so inevitable that he will go, if not this year then next. I'm getting very worried about our habit of selling our star man every season. That is why Moyes wouldn't come to us IMO. :(
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Reports suggesting SD will go to 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' for 10 mil must be a piss take. A player as important to the club as he is with 2 years left on his contract should be worth 15 mil at least given what we paid for him. We can't afford to lose him yet, sad how it's so inevitable that he will go, if not this year then next. I'm getting very worried about our habit of selling our star man every season. That is why Moyes wouldn't come to us IMO. :(
Don't believe everything you read. Downing won't be going anywhere anytime soon, and certianly not for £10m.
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£10m my arse
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Maybe that was Benitez at the interview. " Make me Willa Man and first I would like to buy this Stewart Downing and I think I can get him off our own cloob for £10m, we have article for news ready."
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You know, with the scramble for "home grown" players this summer to meet the criteria, if we were offered 20+m for him, then frankly i'd take it. Would give the new guy, whoever he may be, 40+m to buy five or six, 6-8m price bracket players from abroad or with potential, and overhaul the squad totally. Much better than keeping him for another year and then picking up 10+m.
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Reports suggesting SD will go to 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' for 10 mil must be a piss take. A player as important to the club as he is with 2 years left on his contract should be worth 15 mil at least given what we paid for him. We can't afford to lose him yet, sad how it's so inevitable that he will go, if not this year then next. I'm getting very worried about our habit of selling our star man every season. That is why Moyes wouldn't come to us IMO. :(
Don't believe everything you read. Downing won't be going anywhere anytime soon, and certianly not for £10m.
Heard from a proven Liverpool ITK a few weeks ago that a deal is a formality. No idea of the fee though.
I didn't believe him because it seemed inconceivable that Villa would sanction the departure of both wingers and definitely not before the season was over.
But then Downing refused to commit and reports started to hit the press.
I guess we'll see.
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16-18 milion and i'm sure he will go, anything less is ridiculous.
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Whilst all this manager shernaigans is going on there are alot of rumours he is off to Liverpool this week...with the recent transfers I would expect in excess of £20mil
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Whilst all this manager shernaigans is going on there are alot of rumours he is off to Liverpool this week...with the recent transfers I would expect in excess of £20mil
Exactly, £5mil on top of the Henderson price please 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. Especially as they spent £35mil on Carroll and Downing is supposed to fire crosses for him to knock in. (When Andy is fit and not in Jail.)
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Must be 20 million - twitter rumours that he has handed in transfer request. Fucked up this summer.
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Must be 20 million - twitter rumours that he has handed in transfer request. Fucked up this summer.
To be honest if true his loyalty is a disgrace.
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This seems like a difficult deal to pull off.
Buy a 27 year old and he'll likely need replacing in 3-4 years. Plus you don't very much back for him. For those reasons, I don't see Liverpool paying a premium like they did for Carroll and Henderson. But that doesn't mean Villa shouldn't demand one.
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What a Juan Kerr if true.
Villa take a big risk when he is bought injured. Don't see the best of him until this season and now he possibly wants to go.
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Must be 20 million - twitter rumours that he has handed in transfer request. Fucked up this summer.
hes a wanker If true
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Any sources?
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Maybe we should sell him in the same fit state he was in when we parted with 12 million pounds. I wonder who would part with that amount of money for a crocked 'nearly but not quite International' player.
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This seems like a difficult deal to pull off.
Buy a 27 year old and he'll likely need replacing in 3-4 years. Plus you don't very much back for him. For those reasons, I don't see Liverpool paying a premium like they did for Carroll and Henderson. But that doesn't mean Villa shouldn't demand one.
The same price as the last Left footed player they tried to poach off us. This time they have the money for it as shown by their recent purchases.
And although I can understand your point, both Carroll and Henderson both really have potential only at the moment. They haven't been doing it enough in the prem to get a good look at them whereas Downing has been playing reasonably well all his career.
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Janine Self, regular Villa correspondent on, I forget which one of the nationals, is saying he definatly hasn't put a transfer request in
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I hope he does hand in a transfer request ...that way we don't have to give him his loyalty payment !!
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The bloke is a disloyal tat however FFS what is going on with Villa management? They are letting the hyenas rip us apart and push the Club back about 5 years in development.
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I'm confident Big Eck will persuade him to stay.
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It does appear to be the worst 2 weeks at the start of a summer I can remember. Poorly managed thus far.
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Janine Self, regular Villa correspondent on, I forget which one of the nationals, is saying he definatly hasn't put a transfer request in
It was the Sun a few years ago. Dunno if she is still there. But it shows how the London press treated our football, they couldn't be bothered to send a proper sports reporter up to cover our games. It's not like she is one of the SSN hotties to make up for it. <wink>
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I've seen her name on a few articles in the Daily Mail recently
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This seems like a difficult deal to pull off.
Buy a 27 year old and he'll likely need replacing in 3-4 years. Plus you don't very much back for him. For those reasons, I don't see Liverpool paying a premium like they did for Carroll and Henderson. But that doesn't mean Villa shouldn't demand one.
The same price as the last Left footed player they tried to poach off us. This time they have the money for it as shown by their recent purchases.
And although I can understand your point, both Carroll and Henderson both really have potential only at the moment. They haven't been doing it enough in the prem to get a good look at them whereas Downing has been playing reasonably well all his career.
Agree with that, it just isn't in line with the new Liverpool policy.
Even if Downing is the top target, I can see them switching to somebody like N'zogbia who is two years younger and reportedly available for £9-12m.
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Mcleish loves Nzogbia . Expect him to be the first signing ..
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It does appear to be the worst 2 weeks at the start of a summer I can remember. Poorly managed thus far.
Much rather have a poor fortnight at the start than at the end like last season.
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We beat Arsenal and Liverpool in that time-span.
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We beat Arsenal and Liverpool in that time-span.
I think orange meant 'start' & 'end' of summer, not the season.
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(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/AndyGT2/downingsale.jpg)
::)
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Is this real?
http://www.talksy.com/156857/look-who-s-with-big-andy-carroll-holding-a-liverpool-scarf
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(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/dotcomsimon/SD-1.jpg)
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Is this real?
http://www.talksy.com/156857/look-who-s-with-big-andy-carroll-holding-a-liverpool-scarf
Not unless Downing has grown another 3 fingers on his left hand!
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Hmmm...What do people think?
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Are we sure this hasnt been phot0shopped???
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Hmmm...What do people think?
I think the Interweb is a breeding ground for bullsh*t, bollox and misleading guff.
ITSOTP
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If that is real, then Downing needs to remember that we took him whilst injured & waiting 12 months for him to start playing well.
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If that is real, then Downing needs to remember that we took him whilst injured & waiting 12 months for him to start playing well.
As if he cares!
In the minds of most footballers, supporters are not fit to lick the shit off their shoes.
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Could be photoshopped but I count 4 left fingers so who knows? if it's real then as he knows that we hate these bin dipping fuckers then get rid of him now.
Before he goes fine him two weeks pay, just for the hell of it. Oh and don't accept less than they paid for Henderson either!
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If it not a photoshop windup we should get Petrov to break his other leg.
Jesus Christ man. I am really getting sick to bollocks of football.
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I think its dodgy, the neckline seems a different complection to the head like its just been stuck on, just an opinion no expert knowledge
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having looked at it again on the Mirror website it looks genuine to me due to the light on their faces
If it is genuine then the ponce needs to fuck off
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It looks pretty genuine to me and we should sell him off! Player contracts and loyalty these days means nothing. He has shown his true colours here and is not fit enough to wear the claret and blue shirt!
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It looks pretty genuine to me and we should sell him off!
Why roll over and give him exactly what he wants?
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It looks pretty genuine to me and we should sell him off!
Why roll over and give him exactly what he wants?
Why keep someone who is stupid enough to do that (assuming it is a real pic)? Plus he has said he doesn't want to commit to Villa and the fact he has no loyality (paid for his wages while on the sick bed and waited for him to get fit) says it all really. We should not let him go for less than £20m and play hardball just like MON did with the GB saga
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Looks suspiciously like a 'I'm on holiday in a bar and someone got me to pose for a photo' type of image, to me.
Carroll looks rough as fuck. Thought he was the barman until someone pointed him out.
If Liverpool are looking at £12m, can't see Downing going anywhere Anfield anytime soon. £20m at least.
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How long has Carroll been on Holiday?
You can just picture him on the first day of training looking like grizzly Adams and breathing out of his arse
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Apparently the pic is a fake (twitter users including Ian Taylor have said). If you look at the pic again, there appears to be an extra set of fingers just above Downings fingers.
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Definitely looks Photoshopped to me - as others have said, too many fingers and as far as I know he doesn't come from Norfolk
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There are no extra fingers, there's tassles on the scarf and lady's hand on top. where are people seeing these extra fingers?
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Whoops.
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Bugger me extra fingers and little jimmy Krankie
im off 4 a lie down
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The same tassles appear under his hand too, If it was photoshopped they would have just swapped the head wouldnt they?
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I don't think it's even Downing, if you zoom right in the lad looks about 19.
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It could have been an England scarf though. The scarf itself looks a little odd to me, I think that's what's been changed.
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The scarf might have been photoshopped the supposed extra fingers thing isn't right. It's certainly his hand holding it.
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It could have been an England scarf though. The scarf itself looks a little odd to me, I think that's what's been changed.
Also what is holding up the other end of the scarf?
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@AVFCOfficial Aston Villa FC
Brian Doogan, our head of media, has spoken to Stewart Downing and he can confirm the picture circulating the internet is a FAKE.
I'm guessing he's always going to say that.
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
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You'd have thought Villa may have put someone with a little more authority than the Head of Media on the job of speaking to Downing about it....
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
Like we did with Darren Bent.
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It's probably Adam Johnson. Both the buggers look the same.
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
Like we did with Darren Bent.
Hardly. Sunderland were desperate for the cash, not to mention a certain situation with Miss Potatohead.
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
Like we did with Darren Bent.
Hardly. Sunderland were desperate for the cash, not to mention a certain situation with Miss Potatohead.
But we still tapped him up.
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
Like we did with Darren Bent.
Hardly. Sunderland were desperate for the cash, not to mention a certain situation with Miss Potatohead.
But we still tapped him up.
The same way we probably tapped up big Eck
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
Like we did with Darren Bent.
Hardly. Sunderland were desperate for the cash, not to mention a certain situation with Miss Potatohead.
But we still tapped him up.
How do you know we tapped him up?
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
Like we did with Darren Bent.
Hardly. Sunderland were desperate for the cash, not to mention a certain situation with Miss Potatohead.
But we still tapped him up.
How do you know we tapped him up?
I don't, same as Mark doesn't "know" that Downing has been tapped up. However, the speed with which it all went through suggested to me some sort of prior contact.
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I'd trust Downing's word about as far as he can cross a ball.
He got tapped up by Liverpool and wants out. Only thing stopping his move is Liverpool meeting out asking price.
Like we did with Darren Bent.
Hardly. Sunderland were desperate for the cash, not to mention a certain situation with Miss Potatohead.
But we still tapped him up.
How do you know we tapped him up?
I don't, same as Mark doesn't "know" that Downing has been tapped up. However, the speed with which it all went through suggested to me some sort of prior contact.
I read early last month on a Liverpool site that Jamie Carragher had mentioned that Liverpool had spoken to Downing and he wanted to join them. This was just before Downing made an about turn regarding renewing his contract. I'd say whilst not "knowing", it certainly sounded like he'd been tapped up.
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Is this real?
http://www.talksy.com/156857/look-who-s-with-big-andy-carroll-holding-a-liverpool-scarf
Not unless Downing has grown another 3 fingers on his left hand!
He is from Middlesboro ;-)
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http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/ (http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/)
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Looks suspiciously like a 'I'm on holiday in a bar and someone got me to pose for a photo' type of image, to me.
Carroll looks rough as fuck. Thought he was the barman until someone pointed him out.
If Liverpool are looking at £12m, can't see Downing going anywhere Anfield anytime soon. £20m at least.
He was worth £10million with one leg so has to be double
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http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/ (http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/)
So the scarf, as it's a different colour, has been 'shopped' then
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http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/ (http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/)
So the scarf, as it's a different colour, has been 'shopped' then
Looks that way.
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I don't know about 'forensic analysis' or 'photoshopping' but to my trained eye, I would say thats not Downing because it looks fuck all like him !!
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http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/ (http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/)
So the scarf, as it's a different colour, has been 'shopped' then
Nope, it says that reds come out a lot brighter under the picture.
in fact according to that website it looks genuine if anything.
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Looks suspiciously like a 'I'm on holiday in a bar and someone got me to pose for a photo' type of image, to me.
Carroll looks rough as fuck. Thought he was the barman until someone pointed him out.
If Liverpool are looking at £12m, can't see Downing going anywhere Anfield anytime soon. £20m at least.
He was worth £10million with one leg so has to be double
Imagine what he would be worth if he could use his right foot and make a tackle? The mind boggles.
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http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/ (http://errorlevelanalysis.com/permalink/5eacce9/)
So the scarf, as it's a different colour, has been 'shopped' then
Nope, it says that reds come out a lot brighter under the picture.
in fact according to that website it looks genuine if anything.
I think the only thing you can say is that it is inconclusive. If as they say red can cause a false positive, then that could explain the scarf differences. But why isn't the reddish background banner different? But if the scarf is altered why are parts of it still the same colour as the background?
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I am sure that the scarf is fake- it looks like it has been stapled to the belly of the fat bloke on the right!
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We didn't tap Bent up. I will give you full timeline of events in GM's if you like Chris.
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Is this real?
http://www.talksy.com/156857/look-who-s-with-big-andy-carroll-holding-a-liverpool-scarf
Not unless Downing has grown another 3 fingers on his left hand!
He is from Middlesboro ;-)
They're not fingers, they're tassles from the scarf.
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I thought the guy on the left was Andy Carroll. To me the scarf looks fake as it just doesn't look right. I also think the guy on the right is not Downing at all as he doesn't even look like him on closer inspection.
I think the woman is holding the other end of the scarf giving it the floating effect.
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Are we still talking about this?
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We didn't tap Bent up. I will give you full timeline of events in GM's if you like Chris.
Ok, cheers.
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Who the hell on here really thinks that's Downing?
Wasn't Carroll on holiday around the time England were playing Swiss anyway?
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Who the hell on here really thinks that's Downing?
Downing has already admitted to being in the photo, just bottled out admitting he was holding the scarf.
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have u got a link Paul?
I must admit I thought it was genuine by the light on the faces
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Who the hell on here really thinks that's Downing?
Downing has already admitted to being in the photo, just bottled out admitting he was holding the scarf.
Where has he admitted this?
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Don't know when or where that photo was taken but I've just got back from Ibiza, Andy Carroll and Downing were there together so its probably a genuine photo, still would'nt read to much into it though.
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From the BBC
Liverpool's interest in Aston Villa winger Stewart Downing has cooled with the Reds lining up St Etienne wideman Dimitri Payet in a £13.5m move instead.
Full story: talkSport
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I'd happily send Downing to Anfield if we could get Payet instead.
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I'd happily send Downing to Anfield if we could get Payet instead.
Rather keep a player who has proven ability that's been shown in the PL over someone i've never heard of from Ligue 1 who has no experience of the English league thanks.
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according to the Daily Mail, should you wish to believe it, we've told Liverpool £19 mil which still seems low to me. Still, if he wants to go there, they need to pay up. We really don't need this to become this summers Barry distraction.
Downing given green light for Liverpool switch, but only if Reds match £19m fee
By Sportsmail Reporter
Last updated at 11:08 PM on 22nd June 2011
Stewart Downing has moved a step closer to joining Liverpool after being told he can leave Aston Villa as long as the Anfield club meet a £19m asking price.
Villa boss Alex McLeish does not want to lose Downing but with the winger stalling on contract talks Villa are ready to cash in.
McLeish has made it clear he will not deny Downing a move to Liverpool and is planning to use the proceeds of a sale to lure Charles N'Zogbia from Wigan.
Downing has his heart set on Anfield but a stumbling block could be the transfer fee.
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So we signed him from Smogboro when no one else wanted him, stood by him through a long standing injury and as soon as his form picks up he wants out - feck him off and if 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' want to give us 20 million then let's take the money now - he's certain not to sign a contract extension now unless his form dips again so it's a lose lose for us.
He strikes a beautiful ball but he's obviously not the type of bloke we need at the Club if he pulls stunts like this. Let's get N'zogbia instead.
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Let's get N'zogbia instead.
Agreed. N'Zogbia and maybe Junior Hoillet from Blackburn. Those two either side of Bent would be a formidable, quick and skillful forward line.
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The downing photo is fake. The original is on the talk sPort website and he has two left hands holding the scarf. This doesn't mean he's not going of course.
Really don't want to lose him but would I swop downing for n'zogbia plus benayoun or kranjkar? Probably, if he really wanted to go.
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Sounds from the mcleish fans event that he wants to play gabby up top with bent. Not my cup of tea, but if so, I don't think we'd be buying two new wingers. Would rather get a creative wide player who can help us vary the play than revert to MON style 442, get it wide, get it in the box.
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Can't quite understand Henderson being a £20m player and Downing 'only' £19m. How does this work exactly?
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http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Liverpool-target-Stewart-Downing-set-to-hand-in-Aston-Villa-transfer-request-to-force-through-Reds-move-article752260.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Liverpool-target-Stewart-Downing-set-to-hand-in-Aston-Villa-transfer-request-to-force-through-Reds-move-article752260.html)
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But it's the Mirror.
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Refuse his transfer request if he does hand it in. Ungrateful t*at he can stay and honour his contract. About time we played hard ball with want away players.
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We can get better. Get £20m and raid Europe.
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http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Liverpool-target-Stewart-Downing-set-to-hand-in-Aston-Villa-transfer-request-to-force-through-Reds-move-article752260.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Liverpool-target-Stewart-Downing-set-to-hand-in-Aston-Villa-transfer-request-to-force-through-Reds-move-article752260.html)
If there's any truth in it then ta'ra Downing, won't be missed half as much as Young.
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We are fooked. Who the hell is next? Bent?
Modern football is so fecking pointless.
:(
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I would love to punch that arsehole. Punch him right in the face.
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We can get better. Get £20m and raid Europe.
In terms of figures, I would possibly agree with you, but it goes beyond that.
We now have an image of ourselves firmly planted in the minds of most of the country of us being a selling club. Three consecutive summers, we've sold our "best" player. If we sell our two best players in one summer, that really is pretty poor.
I know it is difficult to hold on to them when they've got one year left on their contract, but Downing has two, so we should let him go absolutely nowhere. Selling Ashley Young and then shortly after would suggest we're going absolutely nowhere very fast.
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We are fooked.
Don't be such a drama queen.
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The Manager told the fans' representatives the other night that only a £50 million (!!!!!!!) bid would persuade us to sell, so you can all chill out and rest easy... 8)
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[We now have an image of ourselves firmly planted in the minds of most of the country of us being a selling club. Three consecutive summers, we've sold our "best" player. If we sell our two best players in one summer, that really is pretty poor.
That depends. Liverpool have been selling their stars at a steady pace: first Alonso, then Mascherano and Torres. Nevertheless, they are not perceived as a selling club -- partly because the media likes them better, but also because they have reinvested the money in big statement signings like Suarez and Carroll. If we sell Downing, how we spend the proceeds will partly decide how we'll be perceived: a Bent style signing, and our reputation may be in tact, if we spend the money on unfashionable Championship players, it will take yet another hit.
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We are fooked.
Don't be such a drama queen.
We coped so well without Milner, losing Young and Downing will be a peace of piss! Oh, and it'll send such a positive message to fans/potential summer targets.
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Paulie, I agree but imagine that first night of Match of the Day when we make the first slot on account of the mystery winger we have bought to replace Downing who has scored a hatrick and set up another 6 goals..... I have a dream....
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Paulie, I agree but imagine that first night of Match of the Day when we make the first slot on account of the mystery winger we have bought to replace Downing who has scored a hatrick and set up another 6 goals..... I have a dream....
Six months ago, I'd have been with you, but now .... I'm not too sure. I suspect the winger will be Allbrighton (no bad thing), and the money will be in the bank.
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In which case this is a fire sale of sorts and we will end up with new owners halfway through the season.
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In which case this is a fire sale of sorts and we will end up with new owners halfway through the season.
You know how to put a man's mind at rest, Nirog.
*cries*
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It's one option. Would it be the end of the world? No. I genuinely don't know whether having seen how things have panned out under MON Randy now feels he may like to move on. I also don't know how the worldwide recession has hit him personally. I also don't know how much he 'gambled' on getting that top 4 place and the holy grail of Champions League. Everything is speculation at the moment, I was just adding another possibility. If he sold the club tomorrow what would he get for it? How much has he personally (rather than AVFC) spent on players and is he trying to recoup this? As I intimated, if it's a fire sale he hasn't gone about it in a traditional way as he has spent far too much of his own cash to make it that worthwhile. I normally talk shit so probably am now too!
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how the fook has he got 27 england caps ..
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The Sun is running a similar story.
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If he wants to go, for £20m I'd let him. His stock will never be higher and based on Big 'Eck's transfer dealings at Blose, I would trust him to spend that and they Young money and improve us. If he's not given the full proceeds, as others have mentioned, Randy probably needs to think about why he's the custodian of the club anymore.
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The Sun is running a similar story.
Indeed and it looks like it may happen!
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I'd sell for £20m. His stock will never be higher than now and personally I'd prefer players who want to be here. With £35m we can replace one left winger and still have money left over to invest elsewhere.
Whilst I liked young and downing, by playing both (all the time) we always seemed to be compromising one of their talents by playing one out of position.
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I remember big 'Eck pushing hard to sign Jovanovic before we got him.
How would you feel about throwing him in as a sweetener?
I quite rate the guy to be honest and am a bit disappointed he never got a decent crack under Roy or Kenny.
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He was quite good in Resident Evil.
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if this goes through between Benitez and Dalglish, Liverpool would have paid £95m for these 4 English players - Glen Johnson, Andy Carroll, Jordan Henderson, Stewart Downing. Now I'll accept that the four players in question are decent, but surely that same money could have been much better spent?
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18months of 'service'... its fucking laughable if true.
Id take the cash personally. Then on 17th Dec, designate a special man marking role to Mr Petrov, job done!
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I remember big 'Eck pushing hard to sign Jovanovic before we got him.
How would you feel about throwing him in as a sweetener?
I quite rate the guy to be honest and am a bit disappointed he never got a decent crack under Roy or Kenny.
One of the papers ran a story last week that moves to some Belgian clubs had fell through as he was on over £100k a week with two years left on his deal, if I were him I'd be going nowhere either.
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Seems only the Mirror are running with this at the moment. In the same piece they appear to be suggesting that Liverpool will sell 'deadwood' like Merales to pay for Downing, wasn't he one of the best players for them last year?
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If true he's a prick let him go. Wanker
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To be honest, 20 million for Downing would be daylight robbery on our part. I'd take the money and buy then with our add it to the coffers and sign some decent foreign talent to compliment our quality youngsters. Downing was easily our best player last season but that was more an indication of how poor our season was. I'd still only say he had a 7/10 season to be honest. And if I'm further being honest, that's the best you'll get from him. Fuck him off, and buy someone better. He's a good player, but he'll never be close to being a great player. Ash Young will be missed far more.
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Juventus are apparently after Mireles for 13 mill.
We need to be smart over this, we need to go and buy N'Zogbia before we sell Downing otherwise Wigan will want 20million if they know we've sold Downing for 20.
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To be honest, 20 million for Downing would be daylight robbery on our part. I'd take the money and buy then with our add it to the coffers and sign some decent foreign talent to compliment our quality youngsters. Downing was easily our best player last season but that was more an indication of how poor our season was. I'd still only say he had a 7/10 season to be honest. And if I'm further being honest, that's the best you'll get from him. Fuck him off, and buy someone better. He's a good player, but he'll never be close to being a great player. Ash Young will be missed far more.
Where do you think we will buy better for less?
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It all depends on who we'd get in. £35m for downing and young, with us buying n'zogbia (10), sturridge (12), kranjcar (7) and Hutton / walker (5-8) and I'd be more than happy.
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It all depends on who we'd get in. £35m for downing and young, with us buying n'zogbia (10), sturridge (12), kranjcar (7) and Hutton / walker (5-8) and I'd be more than happy.
I reckon Sturridge is out of the question, we can't afford Chelsea wages and I doubt he'd want to sign for a mid table side and I don't think Spurs will want to sell Walker. Wouldn't mind N'zogbia but don't rate Hutton or Krancjar.
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Lets sell Darren Bent too. I bet we'd get good money for him as well.
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Lets sell Darren Bent too. I bet we'd get good money for him as well.
Good idea, we could probably get a few quid for Gabby while we're at it.
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Lets sell Darren Bent too. I bet we'd get good money for him as well.
Good idea, we could probably get a few quid for Gabby while we're at it.
Spurs once sold their best player and look at them now!
By selling all of ours, we shall eclipse them within two years max.
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We could save even more money if we don't bother signing a goal keeper too.
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Think its about time we made a stance and told every club. Downing is not for sale. He has a two year contract to run ......
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bensmith_Times
#LFC will pay £8m for Adam, £16m for Downing. Meireles may be allowed to leave if right cash offer comes in.
bensmith_Times
#LFC expect to complete deals for Charlie Adam/Stewart Downing by Monday. (via @TonyEvansTimes)
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I'd definitely rather he stayed. I'm just desperately trying to find the positives. I'm pretty damn worried about next season at the moment. Feels a bit of a sinking ship!
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I don't think we'll sell Downing for 16 million. We could get the same money for him next year (see Young, A) so makes no sense selling him now for the same price.
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Now Ash I can accept leaving, good service and always spoke well of the club and goes to the Champions. If Downing goes he can go fuck himself, he has not put anywhere near enough into the club considering the risk we took with him.
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Typical of the modern day footballer - showed no loyalty to Boro and now ourselves - he`s not even going to play in Europe next season, so I can only presume its for more moeny.
There is a decent player in there but lets face it - he is hardly a totally committed 100% type. For me we will miss Ashley more if only for his work rate.
With Young , Coker and Milner gone who will be stepping up to be "the engine room of the side" - its all quite worrying right now.
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I think Villa need to make a statement with some signings because at the moment it really seems to be loss, loss, loss all the time.
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With Young and potentially Downing going, you couldn't blame Darren Bent for thinking "What the fuck have I done?"
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Not at all Hilts, he will be next unless they reinvest and more.
Downing however, can move then snap his fucking knee in 2 I hope. Little bastard. Young I wish well. Barry gave us good service, but Jimmy and Downing have sold us down the river, as much as I would like Jimmy back.
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With Young and potentially Downing going, you couldn't blame Darren Bent for thinking "What the fuck have I done?"
Bye ;D
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With Young and potentially Downing going, you couldn't blame Darren Bent for thinking "What the fuck have I done?"
Bye ;D
BEYE :(
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If you don't show any ambition as a club, this is the end result.
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I just can't believe the mentality from signing Bent in January to selling up anything with value now. Young I understand with a year left, but Downing should have been convinced by disclosing our targets and telling he owes us some loyalty.
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well he does owe us after buying him crocked, but realistically can you blame him. Most of the fans don't rate the manager so you can hardly criticise the players for agreeing and looking elsewhere. Show no ambition and these things happen.
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If Downing does go, let's get as much as we can out of Liverpool, and then i personally hope he gets as much abuse as Bosnich got when he came back with Man Utd in the Cup.
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If you don't show any ambition as a club, this is the end result.
There's no denying that the club is going backwards.
I really think Mr Lerner Sir is losing interest.
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well he does owe us after buying him crocked, but realistically can you blame him. Most of the fans don't rate the manager so you can hardly criticise the players for agreeing and looking elsewhere. Show no ambition and these things happen.
No, I guess not. Downing's just doing the equivalent of not renewing his season ticket.
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Typical of the modern day footballer - showed no loyalty to Boro and now ourselves - he`s not even going to play in Europe next season, so I can only presume its for more moeny.
There is a decent player in there but lets face it - he is hardly a totally committed 100% type. For me we will miss Ashley more if only for his work rate.
With Young , Coker and Milner gone who will be stepping up to be "the engine room of the side" - its all quite worrying right now.
When some of our own fans are turning their back on the club it's little surprise that some of the players do the same.
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Typical of the modern day footballer - showed no loyalty to Boro and now ourselves - he`s not even going to play in Europe next season, so I can only presume its for more moeny.
There is a decent player in there but lets face it - he is hardly a totally committed 100% type. For me we will miss Ashley more if only for his work rate.
With Young , Coker and Milner gone who will be stepping up to be "the engine room of the side" - its all quite worrying right now.
When some of our own fans are turning their back on the club it's little surprise that some of the players do the same.
"Turning my back on the Villa" involves making a decision whether to renew my season ticket bearing in mind the increased costs of doing so (ticket prices up, fuel prices up etc) when my salary is 30% down on what I was earning 2 years ago.
Furthermore is the experience enjoyable and worth the expense?
Meanwhile Young and possibly Downing, "turn their back" for an extra £50K per week - is that really the same ?
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its hardly encouraging is it. 2 weeks before pre-season 3 first teamers gone, another 2 looking like they're off. We're linked to bobbins and frankly it's hard imagining we can attract better. You're not going to attract season ticket sales if it looks like you're preparing for a relegation fight.
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I don't see this whole "Downing leaving saga" as necessarily a sign of "flogging" anything with value. Maybe Lerner is just plain fed up of people walking out and wanting out of Villa. First MON, then Barry, then Milner, then Young and now Downing. Maybe he's looking for some stability and why not sell Downing this summer if he's only going to go next summer. We may as well get some new players in on long contracts and see what McLeish can do, rather than having to rebuild each year because our star players leave. If he uses the money from Young and Downing to get some good players in on long contracts, we could have a few years to build on, rather than tinkering each summer.
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I think Downing is a little shit to be honest, he owes us big time but one decent half season and one good half season and he wants out. Ok, 18-20 million Stuart and you can fulfill your dream of warming Liverpools bench next season.
We are in a lose lose here, either we make him stay and he goes for nowt at the end of his contract or we keep him, hios form dives, no one comes in for him that he prefers (ie no top 6 Clubs) and he signs an extension then.
He's a good player but 18 mill would be daylight robbery - bite their hands off. I really wouldn't see the problem with that.
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Typical of the modern day footballer - showed no loyalty to Boro and now ourselves - he`s not even going to play in Europe next season, so I can only presume its for more moeny.
There is a decent player in there but lets face it - he is hardly a totally committed 100% type. For me we will miss Ashley more if only for his work rate.
With Young , Coker and Milner gone who will be stepping up to be "the engine room of the side" - its all quite worrying right now.
When some of our own fans are turning their back on the club it's little surprise that some of the players do the same.
"Turning my back on the Villa" involves making a decision whether to renew my season ticket bearing in mind the increased costs of doing so (ticket prices up, fuel prices up etc) when my salary is 30% down on what I was earning 2 years ago.
Furthermore is the experience enjoyable and worth the expense?
Meanwhile Young and possibly Downing, "turn their back" for an extra £50K per week - is that really the same ?
It's the same thought process, though. You have an expectation of what you should get get out of going to the Villa and are questioning whether you'll get that next season. That's fair enough but isn't it just what he's doing from a playing perspective?
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I don't really see any commonality between players paid millions demanding moves after one decent season and supporters questioning whether they can justify the best part of 600 odd quid for a season ticket.
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20m minimum. that gives us 40m if Lerner gives Mcliesh the money from sales. 6-7, 6-8m pound players to rebuild our squad and finally put to rest the whole MON mistake. just gotta pray Mcliesh can pick-up quality players for those sort of fee's. The worst bit is we're losing the more reliable players in the squad and still have the deadwood and troublemakers.
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Bye Bye you rat faced prick. I hope you rot in the Liverpool reserves.
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Villa desperately need to show some ambition now, it's almost like we are on the brink.
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This is all reminding me a bit of (although, on a lesser scale) the dismantling of the Saunders/Barton team when Doug and Graham Turner came on board.
The philosophy behind it all seems pretty similar: cut costs, sell the better players and replace with youth and, possibly, cut price bargains. It's a strategy that can work if you get the right manager in. I do think McLeish has a whole lot more about him than Turner...but then again has he as much to offer as Billy McNeill? I just don't know - I certainly hope so.
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Villa desperately need to show some ambition now, it's almost like we are on the brink.
Unfortunately, the ambition ended when club appointed Alex McCleish. I don't dislike the new Villa manager, but he won't attract big names and players with ambition don't want to wallow in mediocrity.
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Villa desperately need to show some ambition now, it's almost like we are on the brink.
Absolutely agree
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I don't really see any commonality between players paid millions demanding moves after one decent season and supporters questioning whether they can justify the best part of 600 odd quid for a season ticket.
The motives are pretty similar i reckon. If it looked like we might win the league next season then Downing would not want to leave and fans would be more likely to justify spending the money. I wasn't singling VCTM out here as his situation isn't typical but making a more general point about not being seen as an attractive option.
At the moment I doubt we're living up to the way he was sold the club when he signed in the same way that some supporters feel let down by the perceived lack of ambition.
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Good players leaving us is a pain in the arse, to say the least.
I think it paints a picture of just how we are viewed as a club, in many ways. We seem to be the club that is the step between 'the rest' and 'the best'. We can attract the players from the clubs below us, and offer a good shot at being noticed by England and, ultimately, by the clubs in the Champions League or who are splashing out a LOT of money.
It might not be palatable, but that's how I view it, and I have done for a long time in truth - before and since Randy Lerner took over. It's going to take a manger of considerable talent, and no little amount of luck, to take us from that position to Champions League. I doubt that McLeish is that good, although I hope he's lucky.
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This is all reminding me a bit of (although, on a lesser scale) the dismantling of the Saunders/Barton team when Doug and Graham Turner came on board.
The philosophy behind it all seems pretty similar: cut costs, sell the better players and replace with youth and, possibly, cut price bargains. It's a strategy that can work if you get the right manager in. I do think McLeish has a whole lot more about him than Turner...but then again has he as much to offer as Billy McNeill? I just don't know - I certainly hope so.
reminds me more of the fall-out from Gregory's reign but on a bigger scale. Only overpaid players with little market value left at the club so we're now plunging headlong into austerity. Thing is DOL and GT could spot a bargain, not sure AM can
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I've long given up on expecting any sort of loyalty from players, if he wants out lets negotiate the best price and he can sling his hook.
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As far as I can see, the only thing that needs to be handled carefully in this matter, is the timing. So as not to dampen morale, it would be better to get a couple of players in before he leaves.
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At the moment I doubt we're living up to the way he was sold the club when he signed in the same way that some supporters feel let down by the perceived lack of ambition.
If players are leaving and supporters are not renewing then you'd have to say it's a pretty widely held perception and consequently that there might well be some truth in it.
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This is all reminding me a bit of (although, on a lesser scale) the dismantling of the Saunders/Barton team when Doug and Graham Turner came on board.
The philosophy behind it all seems pretty similar: cut costs, sell the better players and replace with youth and, possibly, cut price bargains. It's a strategy that can work if you get the right manager in. I do think McLeish has a whole lot more about him than Turner...but then again has he as much to offer as Billy McNeill? I just don't know - I certainly hope so.
reminds me more of the fall-out from Gregory's reign but on a bigger scale. Only overpaid players with little market value left at the club so we're now plunging headlong into austerity. Thing is DOL and GT could spot a bargain, not sure AM can
He's proved he can in the past, he brought in the likes of Prso, Arteta from Barca and picked up Kris Boyd who went on to score every week for Rangers. It looks as if Small Heath are going to make a tidy profit on Dann and Foster was a good buy as well.
I understand the concerns and agree to an extent but now he's here we're just going to have to trust his judgement.
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What i'd really like is for one of these footballers to come out and say,
"It's too much money to turn down"
Rather than giving us all of this guff they come out with.Liverpool are splashing the cash at the moment and to all sense and purposes they're a more attractive proposition than Villa, but like us there's no european football on offer.However, as with Barry,Milner and Young they got into the England squad based on what they did for us in the Premierleague,lack of CL football didn't harm them.
From waht i've read on here there seems to be a school of thought that Barry,milner and Downing are just greedy bastards whereas Young is the one with ambition as he's gone to Man United.Well i'd bet my bollocks that had United or any of the top 4 not been interested he'd have gone to whoever offered him the most money as well. Downing will be no different, he won't feel he owes Villa anything in a similar way that Bent didn't look back at sunderland when we came in.It's the way it is.
The most depressing thing of it all though is just a few years back we as a club were in a position where we had Liverpool coveting our then best player (Barry) and mr O'Neill was able to tell them to do one despite the fact we'd have a far less valuable player on our hands as his contract whittled down.Now though we've got Downing with 2yrs left and we're pretty much all resigned to losing him as it's 'good business for a player with only 2yrs left on his contract'.In 12 months someone will be in for Bent and we'll be giving it 'Oh it's good business for a 28yr old'.
To cut the bullshit though the simple fact is that unless you replace an outgoing player with one who is at least on par then the team gets weaker.
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To be honest, 20 million for Downing would be daylight robbery on our part. I'd take the money and buy then with our add it to the coffers and sign some decent foreign talent to compliment our quality youngsters. Downing was easily our best player last season but that was more an indication of how poor our season was. I'd still only say he had a 7/10 season to be honest. And if I'm further being honest, that's the best you'll get from him. Fuck him off, and buy someone better. He's a good player, but he'll never be close to being a great player. Ash Young will be missed far more.
Always thought this myself... what a c**t thou ..
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Spidey sense in tingling about next year.
I'd like to think i'm glass half full type of punter - but this summer has pushed even the most optimistic of us to the brink of despair,
bottom line - we are not far off pre season and we have released or sold more players than any other in the premiership (including all of the promoted teams),
- we don't have a keeper,
- we don't have a left back
- Dunne is likely to be the size of a zeppelin by now
- we are desperate to get rid of our back up centre half,
- Warnock wants out and we need to get rid
- we are welcoming back a space cadet who hates the city and the club,
- we have a captain who is not worthy of his spot in the team
- we have just sold our most creative player - ok he turned into a diving prima donna but he did create
- our player of the year is tossing himself off at the thought of getting his house screwed by scouse vermin rather than see out his contract with us
- we have just appointed a manager that nobody wants with a poor track record and a poor footballing philosophy
- Emile Heskey shows no sign of leaving (this is possibly the most depressing of all.
5 years in this is not what i expected - i'll still be there next year (tragically can't wait for the start of the season!!)
Can't wait to write a positive post - hope i can soon, we need to make a statement or 3 soon - else we are in for another long year.
Glad i'm not Benty - ETF must be the understatement of the year for him !! (sure he'll console himself with a truck load of cash however) - bt if this carries on we couldn't blame him for looking elsewhere for the sake of his career.
Right - time for a strong drink!!
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*EDIT
Glad i'm not Benty - WTF must be the understatement of the year for him !! (sure he'll console himself with a truck load of cash however) - bt if this carries on we couldn't blame him for looking elsewhere for the sake of his career.
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It's as predictable as Stephen Ireland putting in poor display, if the club reduce their ambition than both players and supporters will become disillusioned, thats why there was so much opposition to the appointment of McLeish.
It's no good calling players all the names under the sun, they hold a lot of power these days and even back when Southgate left, the clubs intention and desire to progress is at the forefront of most players minds because their career will progress too.
The clubs intention is clear with the latest appointment, and along with quality players departing, we will find it very hard to attract equivalent replacements.
The only hope is that the manager can surprise us all and make the club attractive once again by getting good results, but many people have their doubts.
The club have made their choice and the consequences now follow, as sure as night follows day.
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Spidey sense in tingling about next year.
I'd like to think i'm glass half full type of punter - but this summer has pushed even the most optimistic of us to the brink of despair,
bottom line - we are not far off pre season and we have released or sold more players than any other in the premiership (including all of the promoted teams),
- we don't have a keeper,
- we don't have a left back
- Dunne is likely to be the size of a zeppelin by now
- we are desperate to get rid of our back up centre half,
- Warnock wants out and we need to get rid
- we are welcoming back a space cadet who hates the city and the club,
- we have a captain who is not worthy of his spot in the team
- we have just sold our most creative player - ok he turned into a diving prima donna but he did create
- our player of the year is tossing himself off at the thought of getting his house screwed by scouse vermin rather than see out his contract with us
- we have just appointed a manager that nobody wants with a poor track record and a poor footballing philosophy
- Emile Heskey shows no sign of leaving (this is possibly the most depressing of all.
5 years in this is not what i expected - i'll still be there next year (tragically can't wait for the start of the season!!)
Can't wait to write a positive post - hope i can soon, we need to make a statement or 3 soon - else we are in for another long year.
Glad i'm not Benty - ETF must be the understatement of the year for him !! (sure he'll console himself with a truck load of cash however) - bt if this carries on we couldn't blame him for looking elsewhere for the sake of his career.
Right - time for a strong drink!!
depressing reading but thats how i see it in a nutshell
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At the moment I doubt we're living up to the way he was sold the club when he signed in the same way that some supporters feel let down by the perceived lack of ambition.
If players are leaving and supporters are not renewing then you'd have to say it's a pretty widely held perception and consequently that there might well be some truth in it.
As I've said before I have changed my thinking on the MON walk out. The lack of ambition will be undeniable unless at least £40m is spent replacing our best players.
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Ominous tweet from Kendrick: 'It's my understanding Eck will get cash for a new keeper, but might have to generate funds himself for other #avfc signings'
We will be fighting relegation with a weaker team next season at this rate.
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Ominous tweet from Kendrick: 'It's my understanding Eck will get cash for a new keeper, but might have to generate funds himself for other #avfc signings'
We will be fighting relegation with a weaker team next season at this rate.
Fucking hell if that's true it's a disgrace.
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Ominous tweet from Kendrick: 'It's my understanding Eck will get cash for a new keeper, but might have to generate funds himself for other #avfc signings'
We will be fighting relegation with a weaker team next season at this rate.
But if he sells Downing hasn't he generated over 30 million?
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Ominous tweet from Kendrick: 'It's my understanding Eck will get cash for a new keeper, but might have to generate funds himself for other #avfc signings'
We will be fighting relegation with a weaker team next season at this rate.
Fucking hell if that's true it's a disgrace.
Makes one think again doesn't it? A lot of us have egg on face if this is true. I argued that Bent was not a panic buy and that MON was a C U Next Tuesday until I was blue in the face. The squad needs investment of at least £30m, that's if we keep Downing! There needs to be more communication from the owners in my view.
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Ominous tweet from Kendrick: 'It's my understanding Eck will get cash for a new keeper, but might have to generate funds himself for other #avfc signings'
We will be fighting relegation with a weaker team next season at this rate.
But if he sells Downing hasn't he generated over 30 million?
A new keeper plus what we generate by selling our two best players is nothing like enough to stand still, let alone push on.
I hope there's no truth in Kendrick's tweet, because if there is, I'm afraid it's another season spent in the relegation battle
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Ominous tweet from Kendrick: 'It's my understanding Eck will get cash for a new keeper, but might have to generate funds himself for other #avfc signings'
We will be fighting relegation with a weaker team next season at this rate.
Fucking hell if that's true it's a disgrace.
It's all very well scaling back but if we sell Downing and Young we need to be spending £15-20 million net with the amount of players that need replacing. So about £50 million net. We cannot afford not to spend fuck all net, if that's the case Randy may as well sell up and go.
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This is all reminding me a bit of (although, on a lesser scale) the dismantling of the Saunders/Barton team when Doug and Graham Turner came on board.
The philosophy behind it all seems pretty similar: cut costs, sell the better players and replace with youth and, possibly, cut price bargains. It's a strategy that can work if you get the right manager in. I do think McLeish has a whole lot more about him than Turner...but then again has he as much to offer as Billy McNeill? I just don't know - I certainly hope so.
reminds me more of the fall-out from Gregory's reign but on a bigger scale. Only overpaid players with little market value left at the club so we're now plunging headlong into austerity. Thing is DOL and GT could spot a bargain, not sure AM can
He's proved he can in the past, he brought in the likes of Prso, Arteta from Barca and picked up Kris Boyd who went on to score every week for Rangers. It looks as if Small Heath are going to make a tidy profit on Dann and Foster was a good buy as well.
I understand the concerns and agree to an extent but now he's here we're just going to have to trust his judgement.
This is all reminding me a bit of (although, on a lesser scale) the dismantling of the Saunders/Barton team when Doug and Graham Turner came on board.
The philosophy behind it all seems pretty similar: cut costs, sell the better players and replace with youth and, possibly, cut price bargains. It's a strategy that can work if you get the right manager in. I do think McLeish has a whole lot more about him than Turner...but then again has he as much to offer as Billy McNeill? I just don't know - I certainly hope so.
reminds me more of the fall-out from Gregory's reign but on a bigger scale. Only overpaid players with little market value left at the club so we're now plunging headlong into austerity. Thing is DOL and GT could spot a bargain, not sure AM can
He's proved he can in the past, he brought in the likes of Prso, Arteta from Barca and picked up Kris Boyd who went on to score every week for Rangers. It looks as if Small Heath are going to make a tidy profit on Dann and Foster was a good buy as well.
I understand the concerns and agree to an extent but now he's here we're just going to have to trust his judgement.
I agree. Like the tail end of last season, the supporters have to be positive and really lift the young lads and the club.
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Ominous tweet from Kendrick: 'It's my understanding Eck will get cash for a new keeper, but might have to generate funds himself for other #avfc signings'
We will be fighting relegation with a weaker team next season at this rate.
Okay so Foster for £10 million plus £45 (young + downing + random dead wood) to buy a winger (£15m) a full back (£5m) a centre back (£10m) and a decent midfielder (£15m). Then promote the likes of Albrighton, Licaj, Delph, Bannan etc. It's not that bad is it?
£55m is a pretty healthy chunk of money to reinvest.
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I hope it's not true, because we are in massive trouble if it is.
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Maybe that's what he is doing. Sell Young and Downing, leave with roughly what he put in, he should get the price he paid back for the club. And while he's at it leave us with a manager that nobody really wanted. Was it something we said?
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Maybe that's what he is doing. Sell Young and Downing, leave with roughly what he put in, he should get the price he paid back for the club. And while he's at it leave us with a manager that nobody really wanted. Was it something we said?
How much more would he have to recoup to get back the money he put in so far?
Surely a fair amount more than that.
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Why should Randy keep having to cough up money out of his own pocket?
The Kendrick tweet - as I read it - implies that he will again to buy a keeper, but further signings will have to be generated from player sales.
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Why should Randy keep having to cough up money out of his own pocket?
The Kendrick tweet - as I read it - implies that he will again to buy a keeper, but further signings will have to be generated from player sales.
He doesn't have to keep coughing up money from his own pocket, but if we're going to just stop trying to improve the club, we're back where we were with Doug five years ago, unfortunately.
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Why should Randy keep having to cough up money out of his own pocket?
The Kendrick tweet - as I read it - implies that he will again to buy a keeper, but further signings will have to be generated from player sales.
Rumours abound that it's worse than that.
We'll generate about £40m from sales, but only be allowed to spend half of it.
I think we're in the shit.
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I don't know how much he has put in and taken out (if he has taken out anything). It's probably a big difference in figures anyway. I'm not being critical of him in any way, trying to look at it objectively. If he bankrolled Young and Downing he may argue it's his money anyway. There seems to be less and less clarity around these days about whether the club or the owner are buying players (and yes, there is a difference). While the club owns the players if they bought them soleley with his money (ie outside any resources the club could muster on its own) they may as well be his. Given what we have been paying in wages, I'd be amazed if we can muster up anything to spend on players unless he goes down the side of his couch.
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I don't know how much he has put in and taken out (if he has taken out anything). It's probably a big difference in figures anyway. I'm not being critical of him in any way, trying to look at it objectively. If he bankrolled Young and Downing he may argue it's his money anyway. There seems to be less and less clarity around these days about whether the club or the owner are buying players (and yes, there is a difference). While the club owns the players if they bought them soleley with his money (ie outside any resources the club could muster on its own) they may as well be his. Given what we have been paying in wages, I'd be amazed if we can muster up anything to spend on players unless he goes down the side of his couch.
The club is spending the money on players, not Randy. Randy provides it to the club in the form of loans, paid back with interest - none of it just comes out of his pocket, which is how it should be.
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This is fucking rubbish, and frankly if it's true we have gone from pretty ambitious to one of the least ambitious teams in the league.
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This restructuring of the club is happening far to quickly and we could be in serious relegation trouble next season. McLeish is going to need to really need to get the team playing as a unit to keep us safe.
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The difference being he takes it out of his pocket and loans it rather than gives it to us. It's still his money and still needs to be paid back. He owns the club and if he insists the club pay him back before they buy new players that's what happens.
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The difference being he takes it out of his pocket and loans it rather than gives it to us. It's still his money and still needs to be paid back. He owns the club and if he insists the club pay him back before they buy new players that's what happens.
i don't think anyone thinks it is any different to that - he's funding the club in that he lends us the money - NB not all the money, it's not as if we have no revenue.
If he's decided to grab back his investment, that's his prerogative, but I dread to think what the effects on the club are going to be if he does so right now.
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Why don't we stop wetting our pants about what might be if this happens, or if this doesn't happen?
Understandable that some don't like change. Fair enough.
The rest of us will jump on, see what happens...??
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We aren't wetting our pants, we are discussing things? I'm excited about the upcoming season as I am every year. As for change, it can add to that excitement.
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To be honest last season I wasn't excited for the start of the season due our lack of activity. This coming season unless something dramatic happens I'll be dreading it.
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Why should Randy keep having to cough up money out of his own pocket?
The Kendrick tweet - as I read it - implies that he will again to buy a keeper, but further signings will have to be generated from player sales.
Rumours abound that it's worse than that.
We'll generate about £40m from sales, but only be allowed to spend half of it.
I think we're in the shit.
Are these Rumours from a decent source? From mere press speculation I have not read this. If true it would indeed be a worry - fuck me I'm a happy clapper - it'd also be a great opportunity for the likes of the Fonz, Clark, Bannan and Albrighton to step up as they'd be playing virually every week.
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Isn't it to the advantage of a club to make out that they don't have a lot to spend? Lerner probably just doesn't want to be taken advantage of as might happen to a club who have just made or will make close to 40 million from selling two players. Clever play from Lerner if you ask me..
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One of the things I am most looking forward to next season is seeing the kids progress (hopefully). That doesn't make you a happy clapper Dante, it would be fantastic to see a side many of whom have been nurtured through the ranks playing in a league match. I actually have a slight concern whenever we buy someone new because it may block progress for one of the kids. I know lots of people on here say the same.
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Isn't it to the advantage of a club to make out that they don't have a lot to spend? Lerner probably just doesn't want to be taken advantage of as might happen to a club who have just made or will make close to 40 million from selling two players. Clever play from Lerner if you ask me..
I hope that's the case, I really do.
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The thing is with Downing is that he's not as good as he thinks he is. He has "Southgate" syndrome. If Liverpool offer a good amount of money, then take it and use it elsehwere. Downing is hardly the greatest player and one who is irreplaceable.
I don't understand what all the fuss ia bout Liverpool anyway. I don't see them as being any better than what we could potentially be. Henderson and Carroll, I don't think, are any better than what we have and Gerrard is falling away as he gets older. The only great player they have is Suarez, who looks very good, but will be off when he realiss Liverpool won't be in the Champions League.
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Southgate was very very good, and after leaving Villa should have been at one of the top sides.
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Downing is quality, he is brilliant in possession and never loses the ball.
For me I'd sell him and buy N'Zogbia or visa versa.
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there aren't too many "very very" good players who don't play for the top clubs. If they are good enough, they usually end up there or at least the top clubs show signs that they want them.
Southgate never really made one position his own, as he was quite handy in defence and midfield.
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I remember big 'Eck pushing hard to sign Jovanovic before we got him.
How would you feel about throwing him in as a sweetener?
I quite rate the guy to be honest and am a bit disappointed he never got a decent crack under Roy or Kenny.
One of the papers ran a story last week that moves to some Belgian clubs had fell through as he was on over £100k a week with two years left on his deal, if I were him I'd be going nowhere either.
He's on £70k a week but his signing on fee is spread over the first year pushing it to around £120k. He wants a pay-off of reportedly £2.5m to leave. I'd value him at around £5m so there's a potential bargain there for somebody.
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Many many signs point to the conclusion we are in the shot financially. But not the bent signing. Very few clubs male signings on that scale no matter how perilous their league position.
If out kids were of man utd, Liverpool or west ham late 90s / early 00s calibre I'd be excited. Given that 2 of our bright lights barely got a kick on the championship and none started a game at the under 21 euros this is a big big risk if thats our new strategy.
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Shot financially?
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Crap managerial appointment, and the flogging of our best players for the third summer running. It's hardly going to get the crowds flocking back is it?
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No. I'm affraid not.
I hope the club are planning on arresting this negativity thats swamping us at the moment.
We need some good news and soon.
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Why should Randy keep having to cough up money out of his own pocket?
The Kendrick tweet - as I read it - implies that he will again to buy a keeper, but further signings will have to be generated from player sales.
Rumours abound that it's worse than that.
We'll generate about £40m from sales, but only be allowed to spend half of it.
I think we're in the shit.
Are these Rumours from a decent source?
From a very reliable source, Dante.
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You can't blame Downing can you? Even leaving aside the possibility that our ambitions have arguably been reduced Liverpool are a better option than us as things stand. Same goes for Spurs. If Lerner is determined to run the club on the cheap then you definitely cannot blame Downing and everyone on this site who claims they would act differently if they were in his position is a liar.
If budgets are being reined in then the person I really feel sorry for is McLeish. He, like all of us, sees that the squad needs heavy remodeling but he may not get the money he needs to do it. The fact is with so many of our supporters ready to turn on him that if next season goes tits up he will be the person who will get the blame despite it not actually being his fault. If I was more cynical I'd suggest that if the board are prepared to dramatically rein in costs at whatever cost then an unpopular appointment might be a desirable one as it can act as a scapegoat.
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No. I'm affraid not.
I hope the club are planning on arresting this negativity thats swamping us at the moment.
We need some good news and soon.
Yes the club needs to think very carefully, I understand wanting to sort their finances out. But a massive part of that is getting the crowds in, and it is all unacceptably negative at the moment and that won't get people into the ground. You also need to sell shirts and getting in attractive signings is part of that. There needs to be positivity coming out of the club and it's up to the board to do something.
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It is going to be a difficult season coming up for us. We must get behind the team regardless of our views about the board.
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Personally I think any player who actively wants out should be allowed to go, but at a price that suits us, and at a time that suits us. So thẹ only real question is how much do we value him at? So if we value him at say 15 million, then we should add on an extra 5 million and say, go tell Mr. Dalglish this is what we want, straight cash, no installments and he's all yours, no haggling, no bargaining. Go away if you can't afford it, come back when you can. We can be a selling club, but a selling club that stands up for itself.
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I agree theres a risk that fab unrest pulls the club apart. Even in a worst case scenario we're still in a position that 10 or more epl clubs would envy by there's a risk that all the negativity becomes a real problem, especially at home.
Even a team of:
New keeper - young, Collins, dunne, Clark - albrighton , petrov, makoun, delph - gabby, bent
Subs: Marshall, lichaj, baker, bannan, Hogg, delfouneso, heskey
Which is about the most pessimistic I can possibly be, should be a mid table side.
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When Downing goes it will just re-affirm that the "bright future" bollocks we were fed when Randy arrived is well and truly over. We have got used to selling our best player every season but selling our best TWO in the same pre-season? Who on earth is Alex McLeish going to be able to attract to a club with our current level of ambition that sells its best players all the time? That's if he even gets any decent money to spend. Anyone who thinks we'll use the Downing cash to buy Nzogbia is mad, as if we would be able to attract him now, and as if Randy will shell out for him. Not a chance. These are terrible times at VP.
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Any muli-billionaire tycoons out there that would buy us?!
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I am that depressed at the moment that I would even see Gardner's return as a positive move.
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Why are we allowing Cuellar to leave also - didnt McLeish sign him for Rangers.
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I am that depressed at the moment that I would even see Gardner's return as a positive move.
In a moment of bizarre daydreaming at the school's prizegiving today I thought exactly the same!
Looking at a few of the names we've been linked with - too many who I've never heard of before - my mind started to put economy and scrapping for points as a priority...
he was Blose best player last season and chipped in a few goals! He might at a bit of steel to the midfield. He wasn't all bad when he was with us. It would be lovely to have him in the same team as Gary!
I was trying really hard to justify this terrible scenario to myself!
Is this what it's come to?
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You can't blame Downing can you? Even leaving aside the possibility that our ambitions have arguably been reduced Liverpool are a better option than us as things stand. Same goes for Spurs. If Lerner is determined to run the club on the cheap then you definitely cannot blame Downing and everyone on this site who claims they would act differently if they were in his position is a liar.
If budgets are being reined in then the person I really feel sorry for is McLeish. He, like all of us, sees that the squad needs heavy remodeling but he may not get the money he needs to do it. The fact is with so many of our supporters ready to turn on him that if next season goes tits up he will be the person who will get the blame despite it not actually being his fault. If I was more cynical I'd suggest that if the board are prepared to dramatically rein in costs at whatever cost then an unpopular appointment might be a desirable one as it can act as a scapegoat.
Got to agree with the McLeish bit - he really is on a hiding to nothing isn't he.
If we are not 5-0 up by half time against Fulham - he's going to need a squadron of SAS to escort him to his cuppa
I'm not prepared to give the board the benefit of the doubt re cynicism bit opposite needing a fall guy when this all goes tits up - i just think they have no real idea about what they are doing .
Think Downing will be pivotal - if they do flog him to the dippers - we are raising the white flag and nothing of quality will come in to replace them - why would they.
Think Lerner needs to say something to manage our expectations - along the lines of the first 5 year plan didn't work out, so the next phase is going to be built upon mid table consolidation while we do x,y and z to push on for the future.
No expecting anything from the board - perhaps thats the route of the problem - i don't expect anything from this board!!!
Onwards and upwards - who knows perhaps there's a Saudi Prince out there thinking "that Aston Villa looks like a ripper place to sink a shedload of cash into - you know what thats what i'll do - fuck it!"
(Saudi Princes formerly associated with Portsmouth FC - kindly jog on :-))
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Lets sell Darren Bent too. I bet we'd get good money for him as well.
Good idea, we could probably get a few quid for Gabby while we're at it.
Spurs once sold their best player and look at them now!
By selling all of ours, we shall eclipse them within two years max.
ah but they applied the clever trick of taking the money they raised from selling their best player and then spending double that amount on buying new players.
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Why are we allowing Cuellar to leave also - didnt McLeish sign him for Rangers.
that probably says it all
if cuellar wants out and downing`s on the way (more than likely) and no replacements on the horizon - not even rumours, i say we are doomed - doomed i tell ya
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Why are we allowing Cuellar to leave also - didnt McLeish sign him for Rangers.
that probably says it all
if cuellar wants out and downing`s on the way (more than likely) and no replacements on the horizon - not even rumours, i say we are doomed - doomed i tell ya
The only possible replacements I've read about in the last 48 hrs are a Kenyan international and a bloke from a Dutch club I've never heard of. Perhaps we're going to specialise in uncovering real gems who will take the Prem by storm!
Or perhaps they're the only players we can tempt to join us!?
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Why are we allowing Cuellar to leave also - didnt McLeish sign him for Rangers.
that probably says it all
if cuellar wants out and downing`s on the way (more than likely) and no replacements on the horizon - not even rumours, i say we are doomed - doomed i tell ya
The only possible replacements I've read about in the last 48 hrs are a Kenyan international and a bloke from a Dutch club I've never heard of. Perhaps we're going to specialise in uncovering real gems who will take the Prem by storm!
Or perhaps they're the only players we can tempt to join us!?
Or you will wake up and realise we don't conduct our business in the press.
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Downing aint gone....... yet, but now I'm getting concerned hearing and reading more and more that he's gonna slap a transfer request in. This is my opinion and probably controversial I blame Mr O'niell for knackering my beloved Villa up by running the club like his play thing and Mr Lerner not keeping an eye or being fed duff info by O'niell that it was ok to build an amazing reserve side..... when Randy realised what MON was doing it was too late.... Im looking forward to next season but not expecting much ..... mid table plus a decent cup run seems like what I'll have to settle for. 'SIGH' you never know F'eck might pull some signings out the bag.
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Downing aint gone....... yet, but now I'm getting concerned hearing and reading more and more that he's gonna slap a transfer request in. This is my opinion and probably controversial I blame Mr O'niell for knackering my beloved Villa up by running the club like his play thing and Mr Lerner not keeping an eye or being fed duff info by O'niell that it was ok to build an amazing reserve side..... when Randy realised what MON was doing it was too late.... Im looking forward to next season but not expecting much ..... mid table plus a decent cup run seems like what I'll have to settle for. 'SIGH' you never know F'eck might pull some signings out the bag.
Sorry.
You can't blame O'Neill for Downing wanting to jump ship.
It's quite clear that the Michael Vaughan look-a-like bastard has been tapped up by Liverpool.
If the argument is that O'Neill had too much power, who's fault is that?
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If everything you read and hear is true , it's not good.
Best player last season wants out is really a White flag moment .
I do wonder what we'll be watching next season , it's going to be very very different , hopefully in a good way.
Bsck to Downing - in an ideal world he would acknowledge that he owes us , but it doesnt wirk like that .
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If Downing wants to go , then let him go.
For me he is a good footballer, better than AYoung in my eyes, , he has a good pass on him, a good shot, and a good cross, but he will never be a top class player because he has no heart, no desire.If he had the attitude of AYoung he would be a far better player.I'm not sure he can make a telling pass, and i'm not sure he can pick a man out.If we sell him and get Adam and N'Zogbia with the money, then i think that would be good business.
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but it doesnt wirk like that .
Spelled how my dad pronounced it.
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If Downing wants to go , then let him go.
For me he is a good footballer, better than AYoung in my eyes, , he has a good pass on him, a good shot, and a good cross, but he will never be a top class player because he has no heart, no desire.If he had the attitude of AYoung he would be a far better player.I'm not sure he can make a telling pass, and i'm not sure he can pick a man out.If we sell him and get Adam and N'Zogbia with the money, then i think that would be good business.
Agreed. And if money's tight and we are looking for players with a bit more 'heart', I'd even contemplate going for that horrible fucker Barton.
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If Downing wants to go , then let him go.
For me he is a good footballer, better than AYoung in my eyes, , he has a good pass on him, a good shot, and a good cross, but he will never be a top class player because he has no heart, no desire.If he had the attitude of AYoung he would be a far better player.I'm not sure he can make a telling pass, and i'm not sure he can pick a man out.If we sell him and get Adam and N'Zogbia with the money, then i think that would be good business.
Agreed. And if money's tight and we are looking for players with a bit more 'heart', I'd even contemplate going for that horrible fucker Barton.
Fucking hellfire.
Imagine him on the loose up Broad Street.
We'd have to issue all the youth players with goggles as well, should he get the urge to stub out a lit cigar in one of their eyeballs.
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Barton? No thanks.
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Barton was excellent last year whenever i saw him but, no not for me either, the blokes an arse.
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If Downing wants to go , then let him go.
For me he is a good footballer, better than AYoung in my eyes, , he has a good pass on him, a good shot, and a good cross, but he will never be a top class player because he has no heart, no desire.If he had the attitude of AYoung he would be a far better player.I'm not sure he can make a telling pass, and i'm not sure he can pick a man out.If we sell him and get Adam and N'Zogbia with the money, then i think that would be good business.
Agreed. And if money's tight and we are looking for players with a bit more 'heart', I'd even contemplate going for that horrible fucker Barton.
Me too, but if we get neither and rely on Albrighton alone, we are buggered.
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Set the price tag at £22m and watch Liverpool squirm. It's not like we're under pressure to sell right now and we know that Liverpool will pay extravagantly for crap players. Either way, it's a win-win situation. If he hands in a transfer request, just reject it. We can get better players than him for the money and if we make him stay, we will keep one of our better performers from last season and sell him for about £18m next summer or in january.
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He's contracted to us, we don't have to sell. Even if he puts in a transfer request, we can turn it down. If Liverpool want him they have to make us an offer we can't refuse (ref £35m for Carroll & £20m for Henderson). I suspect that Liverpool do not have the money to tempt us, particularly if they are talking about £12m bids FFS.
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Just posted on Twitter by Ian Taylor...
£15 million bid for Stewart Downing by Liverpool. #avfc
Bugger!
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Too low, jog on Kenny.
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Just posted on Twitter by Ian Taylor...
£15 million bid for Stewart Downing by Liverpool. #avfc
Bugger!
If the bindippers can spunk out £20m on Henderson then we should make them match that bid for Downing. Tell (wan)King Kenny to come back with a decent offer
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Thank-you but no thank-you. Add another 5m or jog on.
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£20m + He has 2yrs on his contract. It has to be an offer we cannot refuse. £15m is a joke .............
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We've rejected it according to SSN
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For once we are in the better position. Pay what we want or feck orf.
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£35m for Carroll, £20m for Henderson and they want Downing for £15m - piss off
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£35m for Carroll, £20m for Henderson and they want Downing for £15m - piss off
Exactly. I'd sell him for £20m, though. The ungrateful tit.
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He'll be going, but not on the cheap. So when are we going to get some replacements in?
I can see next season being a long, hard slog.
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Yep, for 20 million he can fuck off, for 15 million they can
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We need to make a stand on this one. It's pretty hard to accept selling two of your three best players in the same window, coming after selling your best player the two previous summers.
Some things are more important than money, so fuck Liverpool, and fuck Downing.
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We need to make a stand on this one. It's pretty hard to accept selling two of your three best players in the same window, coming after selling your best player the two previous summers.
Some things are more important than money, so fuck Liverpool, and fuck Downing.
This - totally agree, no other club would do so why should we !?
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We need to make a stand on this one. It's pretty hard to accept selling two of your three best players in the same window, coming after selling your best player the two previous summers.
Some things are more important than money, so fuck Liverpool, and fuck Downing.
I don't think the board much care. They showed the world the level of their ambition with the appointment of Alex McLeish. I still can't believe he's our manager.
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I don't think he's even worth that much but sting them like Noocassil and the Mackems did. £19.87m or no dice.
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Sod it, I'm fed up of players being at the club who want to play somewhere else. £20m for a player we bought for £12m with 2 years left on his contract and no appetite for a decent challenge can feck off. But Villa have to insist that a deal is only made on our terms.
Bloody modern-day mercenary footballers.
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Barton was excellent last year whenever i saw him but, no not for me either, the blokes an arse.
He was RT the Dalai Lama on twitter the other day, changed man?
Anger cannot be overcome by anger. If a person shows anger to you, and you show anger in return, the result is a disaster.
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Sod it, I'm fed up of players being at the club who want to play somewhere else. £20m for a player we bought for £12m
£10m.
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I would take £18m to be fair, only if we get Charlie N'Zog though.
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I would take £18m to be fair, only if we get Charlie N'Zog though.
Would that make N'Zogbia the Young replacement or the Downing replacement?
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I'd take £18 million if we get N'Zogbia too. Only if the c*** requests a transfer though so we don't have to pay him a loyalty fee.
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I would take £18m to be fair, only if we get Charlie N'Zog though.
Would that make N'Zogbia the Young replacement or the Downing replacement?
Don't mind so long as he's not the Callaghan replacement!
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I would take £18m to be fair, only if we get Charlie N'Zog though.
Would that make N'Zogbia the Young replacement or the Downing replacement?
Young's replacement because Albrighton will be playing on the right instead of Downing. Still need another wide man to fill out the squad though.
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In fairness to Barton, his modus operandi is usually to target younger or weaker people, people who have most likely shown him no ill will at all. So in a weird way he probably thinks he's consistent with the above, the little shit.
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I'd take £18 million if we get N'Zogbia too. Only if the c*** requests a transfer though so we don't have to pay him a loyalty fee.
LOYALTY FEE!!! C*nt should be made to pay us one ffs!
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Christ this is shite.
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If we can get above £15mil for Downing we should take it. He will have one good game in 4 for liverpool. He is over rated by many.
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If we can get above £15mil for Downing we should take it. He will have one good game in 4 for liverpool. He is over rated by many.
Maybe but who gives a fuck what he does or doesn't do for Liverpool? It's how we'll miss his assists and goals that worries me. Not to mention Ashley's. Or Milner's, for that matter, who we haven't yet replaced properly.
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If we can get above £15mil for Downing we should take it. He will have one good game in 4 for liverpool. He is over rated by many.
If Downing wants to leave, and Liverpool offer us what a current England winger in his prime years is worth in the crazy English transfer market, I'd let him go. With two years left on his contract, Villa are in the position of control, not Downing. Liverpool need to start the bidding at £20m or they can forget about it. As has been said already, if Liverpool can pay the money they have for unproven players like Carroll and Henderson, they can at least pay market value for Downing.
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I suspect it'll go through eventually. We really need replacements to supply bent, two of them. We really need to push the boat out for n'zogbia as I can't think of another winger of his calibre we could get. I'd be more tempted to get a creative wide midfielder than another winger on top of that. A benayoun or kranjcar type player to give us some balance, especially if we revert to 2 up top. We might even find such a player abroad!
The fans need some good news relatively soon tho. It feels like a long hard season already.
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Plus, not really interested in N'Gog being part of the deal. He's on £40k per week and not that good
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Bid rejected (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14041899.stm)
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but it doesnt wirk like that .
Spelled how my dad pronounced it.
Ha ha - the iPhone way isn't always the best !!
He's not gone yet, back in training on Friday ..... who knows, Liverpool not bidding enough (£15 mill) so maybe we can get £18 mill if he does go and replace quickly and maybe with an even better player ( OPTIMISM ON A RAINY WEDNESDAY :0)
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If the ****** is that desperate to go tell him to pay us £2m from his own pocket
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Can you imagine what SD will be like next season if he's refused his dream move to his 'favourite' club by Villa's intransigence over a reasonable valuation.
Crikey he'll be not just one character out of the Wizard of Oz but a multiple personality disorder!
One thing's for certain don't expect any strong tackling from him
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If we can get above £15mil for Downing we should take it. He will have one good game in 4 for liverpool. He is over rated by many.
I agree
Last season he was good and times okay at others for the season no more than 7 out of 10 from me
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One thing's for certain don't expect any strong tackling from him
No change there then! fecker.
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When we played Liverpool, last game last season - Downing played very well.
I thought then , is he trying to impress Dalgliesh ? - IF he is going, make it quick and bank as much as possible.
On reflection - at least £20 mill.
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If Arsenal want him and come in with any half decent offer, we should flog the tosser to them. It galls me that we have to sell him to Liverpool. Arrogant tossers.
15 mil for him is a derisory offer.
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If we can get above £15mil for Downing we should take it. He will have one good game in 4 for liverpool. He is over rated by many.
I agree
Last season he was good and times okay at others for the season no more than 7 out of 10 from me
As much as I hate the fucking loathsome weasel, i'm not going to indulge in any 'Oh he was crap anyway' revisionism that we always get on this site. It was bad enough when Ashley left.
He's a very good winger, productive, good passing and an eye for goal.
He and Ashley will be sorely missed.
And now we're debating about the likes of never has beens like Hitz coming back.
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If we can get above £15mil for Downing we should take it. He will have one good game in 4 for liverpool. He is over rated by many.
I agree
Last season he was good and times okay at others for the season no more than 7 out of 10 from me
As much as I hate the fucking loathsome weasel, i'm not going to induldge in any 'Oh he was crap anyway' revisionism that we always get on this site. It was bad enough when Ashley left.
He's a very good winger, productive, good passing and an eye for goal.
He and Ashley will be sorely missed.
Totally agree, he scored goals, created them but can't tackle - who cares he's a winger. For me he was best palyer last season and if he goes I will miss him more than Ashley 'fall down-a-lot' Young. For some reason he has never been a real favourite, not sure why, I suppose if he was home-grown like Albrighton then he wouldn't have a bad word said about him.
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It's all so crap and predictable.
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It's all so crap and predictable.
Exactly right Irish.
It's the inevitability of it that is so annoying.
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Never been 100% about him although not a bad player never worth 15m in a month of Sunday's but I hate the scousers so even if he puts in a transfer request (he wont) then I wouldn't do a deal less than 25m with them.
I also read that they want to throw N'Gog in with the deal, that's fine with me providing it's him plus 24.999m which would make it a fair deal! Keep their useless tossers.
Second thoughts just piss them off string the scum along and still reject every offer they try with.
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I remember saying when we ended up with McLeish that the only way he’d get off to any kind of start would be to lay down the law to Downing and state ‘you’re staying no matter what.’ Instead it’s looking inevitably that he’s going straight out of the door to one of our closest rivals. Firstly I ask myself where exactly the goals are going to come from next season now that we’ve sold both of our service providers. Secondly and more depressingly I ask myself what this is saying about the direction the club is taking right now.
I can put up with us admitting that the top 4 is out of our reach, what I can’t put up with is the fact that the club are taking away all the hopes of the fans by selling off the crown jewels. I am well aware of the argument that boards come and go and fans just support, but by god they are currently doing their best to turn next season into a bit of a chore rather than a weekly event that we all look forward to.
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Think Villa are doing precisely the right thing rejecting an offer of 15ML, however, if Liverpool come back with another improved offer, say 17/18ML then you have to let the player go.
A lot of players you could hold out on and still know you'll get a decent season out of him and flog them next summer, problem is with Downing his form will drop through the floor and really McLiesh should know this or at least be advised this.
In short, Liverpool return with even a slightly improved offer, take the money and run.
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As if they've offered £15m for Downing. It looked like Henderson and Carroll were horrendously overpriced, but £15m for Downing - "LOL". Let's take the money and get rid of him before they realise he's not as good as he likes to think he is and that he will never, ever tackle anybody.
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As if they've offered £15m for Downing. It looked like Henderson and Carroll were horrendously overpriced, but £15m for Downing - "LOL". Let's take the money and get rid of him before they realise he's not as good as he likes to think he is and that he will never, ever tackle anybody.
Well this is the point in relation to his form, Downing has always seemed to me to be the type of player that needs to be at the top of his game, otherwise he's non-existent, as for Liverpool, its strange that if someone said to me pick a club for in the whole world where you would expect Downing to really shine...........Liverpool.
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If they paid £20 Million for Henderson (laugh) then Downing has to be valued more than that. He's not worth it, but if Liverpool want to pay way over the odds for mediocrity then they stump up for Downing too.
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If Newcastle and Sunderland are laughing all the way to the bank why should we have to put with with piss like £15 million? Fuck 'em.
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I think one of the problems that Villa have with Downing is that Downing has made it clear that as far as he's concerned he's got one foot out the door, he doesn't want to play for Villa, (personally i don't think he ever really has judging by his comments about Boro 5mins after signing for Villa), so on that basis its opened the door for Liverpool to approach this in a manner as if dealing with an unhappy player, hence the low offer.
No club wants a player that's indifferent to playing for you.
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I think one of the problems that Villa have with Downing is that Downing has made it clear that as far as he's concerned he's got one foot out the door, he doesn't want to play for Villa, (personally i don't think he ever really has judging by his comments about Boro 5mins after signing for Villa), so on that basis its opened the door for Liverpool to approach this in a manner as if dealing with an unhappy player, hence the low offer.
No club wants a player that's indifferent to playing for you.
But it wasn't so long ago when he was saying how happy he was at Villa. The fucking Weasel.
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I think one of the problems that Villa have with Downing is that Downing has made it clear that as far as he's concerned he's got one foot out the door, he doesn't want to play for Villa, (personally i don't think he ever really has judging by his comments about Boro 5mins after signing for Villa), so on that basis its opened the door for Liverpool to approach this in a manner as if dealing with an unhappy player, hence the low offer.
No club wants a player that's indifferent to playing for you.
But it wasn't so long ago when he was saying how happy he was at Villa. The fucking Weasel.
Footballers hay!!!!!!!!!!!mind you, you probably couldn't have expect him to come out and say, "happy until Liverpool come knocking".
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Although I think we should play hardball over the fee and screw them as much as possible (something that we are historically shite at) If the boot was on the other foot and we were offering £15M for Downing I for one would be going ape shit!!!
Yes lets try for more but not lose sight that many of us probably never imagined we would get back half of what we paid for the little twat!!
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jordan Henderson age 21 england games 1 games 71 goals 4 cost 16,000,000 plus add 0ns
stewart c**t downing 26 england games 27 games 244 goals 29 lots of assists
yes Liverpool you can have him for 15,000,000 , no problem with Raul Meireles thrown in please...
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The club needs some good news and very soon. If Downing wants to engineer a move this summer then he is a wanker but let's not hide how we are being perceived.
The season is a month away and I still haven't recovered from the last one yet. The same old bitching, back biting amongst the fans, the same lack of ambition I want out stuff from certain players, the same lack of any form of optimism as we fatalistically trundle into another campaign.
We need something to make the world take notice, something to give us hope, something to reinvigorate us ahead of the season.
And if that doesn't come soon then there are some very dark clouds on the horizon.
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The club needs some good news and very soon. If Downing wants to engineer a move this summer then he is a wanker but let's not hide how we are being perceived.
The season is a month away and I still haven't recovered from the last one yet. The same old bitching, back biting amongst the fans, the same lack of ambition I want out stuff from certain players, the same lack of any form of optimism as we fatalistically trundle into another campaign.
We need something to make the world take notice, something to give us hope, something to reinvigorate us ahead of the season.
And if that doesn't come soon then there are some very dark clouds on the horizon.
Agree
I want to see signings that will signal our intentions but alas I don't think we are going to get them. I think that was why were were linked with martinez and then got AM.
AM to the board - "Please can I have some money"
Board: "You are lucky to be here so sod off"
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I think one of the problems that Villa have with Downing is that Downing has made it clear that as far as he's concerned he's got one foot out the door, he doesn't want to play for Villa, (personally i don't think he ever really has judging by his comments about Boro 5mins after signing for Villa), so on that basis its opened the door for Liverpool to approach this in a manner as if dealing with an unhappy player, hence the low offer.
No club wants a player that's indifferent to playing for you.
He'll be keen to play well next season to cement his place in the England squad next summer - given that he's quoted as saying the reason he wants to move is to become an England regular there's no way he'll jeopardise that. So for me that puts us in the driving seat. First up we should tell him if he wants a move he has to submit a formal transfer request and so forego any "loyalty" slice of a transfer fee. Then we should tell Liverpool £20m or fuck off. No transfer request then the price goes up to £25m.
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In today's market he's worth double what we paid - those market conditions are fuelled by what Liverpool themselves have paid for Carroll & Henderson.
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Mutterings about Joe Cole coming in our direction are interesting.
Next 3 weeks will be interesting - let's hope in our favour.
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Mutterings about Joe Cole coming in our direction are interesting.
Next 3 weeks will be interesting - let's hope in our favour.
£15m + Cole or £18m cash and he can FRO as far as i'm concerned the weasley faced shitbag.
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If I hear one more Liverpool fan say they are being held to ransom with Downing , i will seriously go and bulldoze anfield myself with Dalghish underneath it .. you stupid thick c**ts . you want to get an england internation with prem experience coming up to his peak for less than Henderson , while you payed 35,000,000 for the pony tailed thug...
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15 + Cole would suit me too. Meirelles wants to go to Italy
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Meirelles wants to go to Italy
I'll stump up for a pizza.
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15 + Cole would suit me too.
Not for me, that would rate the past it fat bastard at £5m. No thanks.
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I think with Cole's wages we can safely rule out him joining us
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I think with Cole's wages we can safely rule out him joining us
£90k per week isn't it?
Modern football is rubbish.
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Is it just me, or does this transfer really stink. I am disgusted at the way Downing has shown us contempt, we showed faith in him and paid him good money to not play,when he was recovering from a broken leg, and he has one good season and wants away. Also it appears that we are just rolling over and taking this shit, there are no sounds from VP about how we will not let him go.
This transfer takes professional footballers attitudes and contempt for the fans another step lower.
Is this the future for Aston Villa, sell all our best players because they are our top earners for profit, reduce the wage bill and try and compete on the cheap.
Modern football is indeed rubbish
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totally agree that modern football is rubbish and the reason for it.......MONEY! its an absolute joke. FFP wont make it any better as the big clubs will still get bigger due to the money they will get from Champions league etc.
Anyway, back to topic, Downing is a disloyal twat. Im not disappointed with Ashley young one bit as he gave us good service (for the modern game) and he gave 100% each game. As for Downing, we buy him when he's injured, help him recover, has a below average first season and then has a great season then he wants out? Clearly tapped up or his agent turning his head. Agents are equally to blame for modern day footballers attitude towards clubs.
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Modern Day football will become less rubbish when we see the likes of Henderson (£20 million, laugh) looking no better than the most average footballer in the league, Downing sailing crosses 6 foot over Carrolls head and King Kenny with sullen face stating every Saturday night on MOTD That "we know what we need to do to improve".
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What isn't being mentioned much on this thread is that McLeish told the Fan's Forum a few weeks back that Downing wasn't for sale unless we recieved a "stupid offer" along the lines of "£50 million!!". This raise more than a few questions:
1. Was Mystery Man day-dreaming at the back and didn't realise that McLeish was actually talking about Darren Bent? (Doubtful, but kind of funny)
2. Was McLeish lying through his back teeth to Villa fans' faces, just a few days into the job? (Unlikely. He doesn't strike me as that sort)
3. Did McLeish make a rash and naive statement before actually speaking to the player or assessing his transfer market options? (Possibly, but how dum would that have been considering he could have played with a straight bat and said he hadn't had a chance to speak to the player yet?)
4. Is McLeish not really in charge or pulling the strings and if the Board says: "Sell" he says: "How much for?"?
5. Has McLeish been forced into a change of heart on Downing because he doesn't have the Ash Money and has to generate his own transfer pot, and he now sees the Downing sale as the only way to generate the funds he needs?
or 6. He really isn't for sale and the Scousers are just chancing their arm? Perhaps the bit about "Villa holding out for £20 million" is just symptomatic of the way the Media views us these days, like a cheap whore, where the word 'no' just means 'come back with a better offer'.
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I think with Cole's wages we can safely rule out him joining us
Thank fuck for that, I'm racked off with busted flushes being used as makeweights for our better players.
Cash or fuck off.
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What's all this sell the c**t for £18 million nonsense? The price is £30 million. If you want to meet in the middle fine, but I'm getting really narked at Villa playing 'fair' and setting 'reasonable' prices.
The c**t's been tapped up, probably privately, certainly through the press. F*** playing fair.
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No player should be involved in the deal unless it was one we were specifically after in the first place.
Really not interested in their crud like Cole and Ngog.
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£19,000,000 is the price SSN are quoting we've set.We should be saying 24 million as 19 mill is clearly saying we are prepared to sell as 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' will pay that
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I think with Cole's wages we can safely rule out him joining us
I hope that with Cole being utter gash we can rule him out.
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I don't think this has been posted yet but this was tweeted by a well respected journalist....
@danroan
Downing is minded to join Liverpool - but having lost Young to Utd I understand Villa have decided he is not for sale
This does coincide with what the fans were told by AM.
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Interesting Downing stat from the BBC
Of the eight games in which Downing scored last season, Villa won seven.
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Downing is a maggot. But he's an expensive maggot. Liverpool should pay up or fuck off. If they come up with the required amount - at least £25million, cash, with none of their unwanted rubbish in return - then I feel it's only fair that we shift him on in the condition in which we received him. Stiliyan...
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The game we lost was Stoke away
Statto statto
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The game we lost was Stoke away
Statto statto
should of won that game too, you anorak ;)
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The media has now decided that we've 'set the price at £19m'. I really don't think they know how much we're willing to sell for, but it won't be less than Henderson. If I'm wrong and we sell for anything less than £20m - £25m I will have serious doubts as to whether Randy Lerner has anything but quickly recouping his investment in mind.
Liverpool fans claiming that the Henderson deal is ok because he's young and has potential are deluded. They have paid well over the odds for a totally unproven kid and another as yet untested to any great degree centre forward. If you go on proven ability, Downing should be worth more than Carroll. If potential and re-sale value are so important, would a 27 year old world class player like Tevez be worth less than Henderson because he's only 20? Would he bollocks. One-eyed nonsense. Common sense tells you that Downing isn't worth £25 million, but in the current premier league market he IS worth that at least.
Agree with the other posters, some good news is long over due.
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Liverpool fans are really starting to do my head in! How can they say that £15m for downing is a fair price? They're the ones who started the high spending on "potentials" like Henderson and Carroll. Downing, IMO, is proven in the PL - not the best but definately worth £20m in todays transfer market. Also, rumour has it that they agreed a £9m fee for Adam and he is in the last yr of his contract. Downing still has 2 years left and they valur him at £15m? Pathetic!
Hope Henderson and Carroll flop. it will be interesting to see what the fans will say about King Kenny!
Also just want to reiterate that Downing is a wanker! The end!
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Liverpool are my tip for a bad season, by that i mean outside the top four,
if they sign Downing for anything over 15 mill i will laugh my bollocks of and get down the bookies to lump on.
never in nearly 40 years of watching Villa have i seen a more overated player than Downing, he will be a total flop up at Anfield, and i will enjoy every minuet of it
for what its worth , i do rate Carroll though, even though he's young and unproven i just get a good feeling about him becoming a quality centre forward, injuries permiting
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for what its worth , i do rate Carroll though, even though he's young and unproven i just get a good feeling about him becoming a quality centre forward, injuries permiting
And if he can stay out of jail the big thug!
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for what its worth , i do rate Carroll though, even though he's young and unproven i just get a good feeling about him becoming a quality centre forward, injuries permiting
And if he can stay out of jail the big thug!
True
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Joe Cole is shite.
Then again so is McLeish.
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The media has now decided that we've 'set the price at £19m'. I really don't think they know how much we're willing to sell for, but it won't be less than Henderson. If I'm wrong and we sell for anything less than £20m - £25m I will have serious doubts as to whether Randy Lerner has anything but quickly recouping his investment in mind.
Liverpool fans claiming that the Henderson deal is ok because he's young and has potential are deluded. They have paid well over the odds for a totally unproven kid and another as yet untested to any great degree centre forward. If you go on proven ability, Downing should be worth more than Carroll. If potential and re-sale value are so important, would a 27 year old world class player like Tevez be worth less than Henderson because he's only 20? Would he bollocks. One-eyed nonsense. Common sense tells you that Downing isn't worth £25 million, but in the current premier league market he IS worth that at least.
Agree with the other posters, some good news is long over due.
Agree. If Henderson is worth £20m and he's only 20, and they first offered £12m for Downing at 27, Messi is 24, so why don't they put in a cheeky £15m bid for him aswell. All this Downing nonsense has just reminded me how much I hate those fecking scousers.
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Regarding Downing, after thinking about it today and reading on here, i've got one foot in Greg's 'let's get as much as we can and get rid' camp and the other foot in Paulie's 'we need to stop selling our best players' argument. There's a case for both.
Like i said last night, we should only sell if the money is right and if we get a decent enough replacement in. If we don't get both, then he goes nowhere.
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Probably been stuck on elsewhere but this is on the end of the Adam story on BBC website:
Liverpool had a £15m bid for England winger Stewart Downing rejected by Premier League rivals Aston Villa on Tuesday.
And while reports suggest Villa are holding out for £20m, BBC Sport understands the club do not want to lose Downing at any price.
Seems the most likely scenario to me. McLeish and the club want to hang onto him, unless stupid money is offered, and SSN are making shit up (again). Liverpool know he wants away so are taking the piss with offers to test our nerve. If you look at it from McLeish's perspective this is either a nice PR "win" early doors or will pile further shit on him, so I'd be surprised if he wasn't strongly resisting this.
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Another thing about Downing, would, after a lengthy and public flirtation with Liverpool, Downing be booed at the first opportunity? I think he would and I don't think he'd have the character to overcome it
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He became our player of the season after getting called a poofter by most of his own fans in the early days so I don't think his resilience is in doubt. Just his loyalty.
Also - bearing in mind his age and the fact that his next move will be the last big one, plus his position on the fringes of England, he would be taking one huge gamble if he loses interest on the pitch because he doesn't get the move he wants.
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We never do decent business. When we sold Yorke to the Redscum the press was full of 'overvalued at £12M' when it was clear he was worth £20M. They would never have won their treble without him. Milosevic went for peanuts and then was traded on at a huge profit. Hitlesperger went for nothing, Barry for small change to the richest club in the world, Young at well below half his market value. At least we got something for Milner. Downing will probably go for less than any rational valuation. Mind you I think he's violently overrated and blunts us as an attacking force, but what do I know. Providing he isn't replaced with Joe Cole I shan't be sorry to see him go.
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Another thing about Downing, would, after a lengthy and public flirtation with Liverpool, Downing be booed at the first opportunity? I think he would and I don't think he'd have the character to overcome it
Has he flirted with them openly, though?
He's hardly sunk to the levels that shit heap Barry did with that cringemaking "please let me achieve my dreams" front page Evening Mail article.
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Another thing about Downing, would, after a lengthy and public flirtation with Liverpool, Downing be booed at the first opportunity? I think he would and I don't think he'd have the character to overcome it
We haven't seen much character from him at VP! He was shit when he started for us, and only better last season when everyone else was a bit crap. Still don't know how he got player of the season! At his age he should be a very strong influential player in most matches he plays. He isn't! Let him go for the right price and look for somebody with genuine flair/guts or both. Downing is a wuss!
Don't like to be negative to any player but I'd happily boo the twat first time back at VP!
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Sell him for £20 million and bring in Adam Johnson.
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I don't think he has been too blatant in as much as talking to the press etc, but his somewhat abrupt 'about turn' in attitude does suggest that he has been, say, rather easily persuaded that his future could lay elsewhere.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't sell him after all, and even if we do I think we'll get a good replacement in N'Zogbia or someone of that ilk.
As an aside, can anyone remember if it was a 'serious statement of intent' when we signed him? Or does that only apply when it's Kenny Dalgliesh doing it?
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As an aside, can anyone remember if it was a 'serious statement of intent' when we signed him? Or does that only apply when it's Kenny Dalgliesh doing it?
I honestly think MON saw potential. I think I did. I think Dalgleish sees the same and hopes he can get him playing to that level all of the time. But he just hasn't done it for me.The odd spark of brilliance is not enough to earn a place in the team every game...he's not a team player and he doesn't have any bottle. Give us the dosh and get rid!
Then perhaps AM can make a statement of intent!
I hope so!
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As an aside, can anyone remember if it was a 'serious statement of intent' when we signed him? Or does that only apply when it's Kenny Dalgliesh doing it?
Here's how The Guardian reported it when Villa signed him:
Aston Villa have completed the signing of the Middlesbrough winger Stewart Downing for a fee in the region of £12m. The England international has joined Martin O'Neill's side on a four-year deal after passing a medical.
Downing is O'Neill's first summer recruit but will be unable to play a part in the Villa first team until October at the earliest and may not be fully fit until December after breaking a foot in the penultimate league game of last season. He will have an operation to remove a steel pin from the fractured bone in September before stepping up his fitness programme.
The 24-year-old felt he had to leave Boro following the club's relegation to keep alive his hopes of playing at next summer's World Cup with England. "Leaving Boro feels strange because I have always been at the club," he said. "I supported them when I was young and I will always be a Boro fan.
"But I hope the fans will understand that I'm ambitious and want to win things. This move gives me a chance of that. Also, I definitely want to play at next year's World Cup, so that's my aim - to get back to full fitness, get back playing and get myself in the England team for the World Cup.
"I don't just want to go there to sit it out this time either. I want to be in the team. I loved the last World Cup, it was brilliant, but I want to play a bigger part this time. I have to be with a good Premier League side if I want to do that."
Downing had no hesitation in accepting Villa's offer. "When it became apparent that Villa were interested I was very excited," he said. "I wanted to come as soon as I met Martin O'Neill so I am delighted it's now sorted out. As soon as I spoke to the manager at the training ground, I wanted to play for Villa and I wanted to play for him. He has great ambition and wants to build a good squad to take the club forward. I want to be part of that.
"As an outsider looking in, it was obvious that Villa were a club on the up. You can see a chairman and manager who want to build great things. They have done that over the past few seasons, particularly by finishing sixth last time around, which was great. But once you get here and see the stadium, the training ground, the people behind the scenes and the manager with his ambition and hopes for the future, it's even better than you realised.
Hmmm. It makes you realise how exciting things seemed back then - clearly perceptions have changed. One thing's for certain, though, Liverpool at the moment are reminding me a lot of Villa in the early O'Neill days.
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As long as the money gets re invested, i will be delighted to see the back of him for £19m. Good player, not great and obviously a vile little prick. I also remember the comment about going back to Boro when they get back in the top flight about 5 mins after joining us. Never liked him, although i was largely pleased with his performances last season.
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As long as the money gets re invested, i will be delighted to see the back of him for £19m. Good player, not great and obviously a vile little prick. I also remember the comment about going back to Boro when they get back in the top flight about 5 mins after joining us. Never liked him, although i was largely pleased with his performances last season.
Modern day footballer then?
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Bad even by the normal standards. Nursed back from injury and wants to jump ship after one good season. At least the others who have done it to us have put a shift in first.
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Bad even by the normal standards. Nursed back from injury and wants to jump ship after one good season. At least the others who have done it to us have put a shift in first.
That's probably what annoys me the most about the whole thing.
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That article also makes you realise why he might feel diferently about playing for Villa than he did when he signed. I'd probably feel the same if I didn't have any deep allegiance to the club to be honest.
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That article also makes you realise why he might feel diferently about playing for Villa than he did when he signed. I'd probably feel the same if I didn't have any deep allegiance to the club to be honest.
You'd give it another year though wouldn't you? New manager, new era etc? See how things go? Has he actually said he wants to leave or is it just Liverpool doing their usual "scouting" through the press, unsettling the player and then putting an offer in?
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SkySportsNews Sky Sports News
Tottenham Chairman Daniel Levy says Luka Modric understands he will not be sold
Ahh... The benefits of giving long term contracts to your players.
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SkySportsNews Sky Sports News
Tottenham Chairman Daniel Levy says Luka Modric understands he will not be sold
Ahh... The benefits of giving long term contracts to your players.
I'd be surprised if Modric will stay at Spurs when Yanited come calling.
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Sell him for £20 million and bring in Adam Johnson.
Would love this to happen but somehow can't see it.
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getting sick of players wanting to leave the club i just hope big eck gets rid of everyone that doesnt want to be here and starts again would sooner have a building year again now than in maybe 2 years time IF YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY FOR VILLA PLEASE F@@K OFF
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SkySportsNews Sky Sports News
Tottenham Chairman Daniel Levy says Luka Modric understands he will not be sold
Ahh... The benefits of giving long term contracts to your players.
I'd be surprised if Modric will stay at Spurs when Yanited come calling.
Just saw Levy on SSN. There's no way he's going.
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SkySportsNews Sky Sports News
Tottenham Chairman Daniel Levy says Luka Modric understands he will not be sold
Ahh... The benefits of giving long term contracts to your players.
I'd be surprised if Modric will stay at Spurs when Yanited come calling.
Just saw Levy on SSN. There's no way he's going.
They've got to pay for that new stadium some how. Ridiculous season ticket prices will only go so far.
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Spurs are a far more ambitious better run club than we are. They have some genuine top level players. They can keep Modric whilst we fret about a second rater like Downing.
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Another thing about Downing, would, after a lengthy and public flirtation with Liverpool, Downing be booed at the first opportunity? I think he would and I don't think he'd have the character to overcome it
Has he flirted with them openly, though?
He's hardly sunk to the levels that shit heap Barry did with that cringemaking "please let me achieve my dreams" front page Evening Mail article.
Perhaps not Paulie, but Barry had a decade's 'service' to draw upon and people lining up to say how he'd be professional to the last. To be fair he was as dependable as ever even after his Dream Move TM (puke) broke down.
I just get the impression Downing would take flak due to his 'pansy' (how odd is that for a winger) image in some quarters and this, crossed with his relatively short time here would mean a proper, hodge-esque panning would ensue.
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daniel levy a great statement telling modric your not being sold i would love to hear randy lerner say the same to downing i want something positive to come out of villa park a statement of intent but all we hear is that villa want 19 mill
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From the laughable Sportsvibe.co.uk
Kenny Dalglish has made Valencia winger Juan Mata a priority signing after Aston Villa rejected an improved offer for Stewart Downing earlier this week.
According to a report on the Mirror Football website, the Merseyside club upped their bid from the £12 million they tabled two weeks ago to a generous £15 million.
However, Villa are thought to be holding out for an astronomical sum of around £20 million, and Liverpool are not willing to shell out so much to bring the 27-cap England international to Anfield.
Despite clearly being keen to move on from the Midlands outfit having stalled with contract negotiations, Downing will have to find another suitor able to provide European football.
Meanwhile, Dalglish will look elsewhere to find a steady supply of assists for his new strike partnership of Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez.
Given the immense form of Mata during Spain’s successful European Under-21 Championship campaign over the course of last month in Denmark, the Liverpool manager is likely to put together an attempt to raid the Mestalla.
Valued at close to £20 million by his current employers, Mata has achieved a great deal in the game in spite of his tender age.
Still just 23 years old, he has compiled 11 senior caps for his country, during which time he has scored four goals.
Though he was restricted to a single substitute appearance in the 2-0 group stage win over Honduras, Mata was a part of Spain’s squad throughout their run to World Cup victory in South Africa last summer.
Did Liverpool qualify for Europe then? Must have missed that.
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For £20mil I'll drive the smog affected twat up there myself, laughable amount of money for a player of his ilk (then again, so was the £12mil we paid).
Not sure why some are treating him in the same bracket as Young & Milner, no where near the class of them and he can be replaced quite readily in my opinion - he was the best of a pretty shit bunch last season so that's nothing to shout about.
I'm dreading Albrighton getting in the England squad as no doubt he'll be the next (along with Bent) to be brainwashed by Stevie Me or some other bellend into leaving us.
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From tomorrow's Times:
However, Alex McLeish, the new Villa manager, is ready to play hard-ball with Liverpool over Downing. McLeish will inform the left-sided midfield player that he is not available for transfer and that he remains a key part of Villa’s plans for next season.
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daniel levy a great statement telling modric your not being sold i would love to hear randy lerner say the same to downing i want something positive to come out of villa park a statement of intent but all we hear is that villa want 19 mill
[/b]
Where did you hear that? ( Genuine question)
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We are in deep shit if The Board thinks that a refusing to sell Downing is a statement of intent that we should all rally around.
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We are in deep shit if The Board thinks that a refusing to sell Downing is a statement of intent that we should all rally around.
Eh?
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The thing is, if he stays, what kind of reception will he get from the fans. If he has a bad start to the season, he will be accused of not "having his heart" in it, and could lead to a downward spiral. In the worst case scenario, he'll have a falling out with the McLeish, won't play, and then will be worth half as much next summer, or nothing the summer after!
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You could say the same about Moderic. He openly stated he wanted to leave. Now he has been "told" by Levy he is going nowhere. He will be in full swing after a full pre-season. Downing will be the same .........
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Mark Lawrenson on R5 this morning more or less implied it's an inevitable move.
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Mark Lawrenson on R5 this morning more or less implied it's an inevitable move.
He would though wouldn't he? Most of their ex-gobshites still think Liverpool are the last word in football.
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WM are reporting soured from Mcleash "Downing not for sale".
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I really don't think Downing will be allowed to leave full stop.
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Story from Mat K in today's Mail says McLeish has told Liverpool that Downing is not for sale.
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I think the next stage is for Downing to put in a written transfer request which I expect by Monday. The cock.
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I think we have said he is not for sale as a way of getting liverpool to up their bid. Downing is off, IMO, and we are just waiting for the right amount of money.
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Downing not for sale is the same as Modric is not for sale. Both are once the amount reaches an acceptable level.
I feel further removed from the game I have loved for 55 years every day.
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lets hope they offer 25 million ...
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If Spurs lose Modric they still have Van Der Vaart, Pienaar, Kranjcar, Bale and Lennon. We lose Downing we're only really left with the kids like Albrighton and Bannan, oh and Ireland. We are a long long way from competing with Spurs and Liverpool for 5th and 6th place, never mind 4th, that has now long gone.
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Mark Lawrenson on R5 this morning more or less implied it's an inevitable move.
He would though wouldn't he? Most of their ex-gobshites still think Liverpool are the last word in football.
Yes, indeed, just like that fat twat on Talkawholelottashite. Hilarious to hear some Bindipper ring in to their show this morning and say that they have signed second rate players so far. The presenters almost spontaneously combusted on the spot!
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On ssn's website, McLeish has said Downing is not for sale.
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Here... (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,11677_7024478,00.html)
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What is the point of keeping a bloke that generally has a half arsed attitude against his will?
I can see Downing making a real effort next season.
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Just read that Modric has come out and said he's not going to hand a transfer request in at Spurs.
Stewart - up to you matey.
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So am I right in saying if you have a contract and the club sells you they have to pay that up ? A ''loyalty bonus ''
So if SD is on 50k a week is that £5.2 mil he will lose for handing in a transfer request ?
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The way I understand it is that it is usually not the full wage over the remainder of the contract but similar to a signing on fee that is part of the contract and payable when sold or forfeited if a transfer request is handed in.
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It used to be the case that the player was entitled to 10% of the transfer fee, unless he's handed in a transfer request when he got fuck all.
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The way I understand it is that it is usually not the full wage over the remainder of the contract but similar to a signing on fee that is part of the contract and payable when sold or forfeited if a transfer request is handed in.
One of the things that winds me up most in the modern game. A player can say he wants to go, talk to the other club via his agent and even agree terms, but unless he actually hands in a written transfer request he still gets paid to go. Fucking disgraceful and actually gives you an element of respect for those that do hand a request in.
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So am I right in saying if you have a contract and the club sells you they have to pay that up ? A ''loyalty bonus ''
So if SD is on 50k a week is that £5.2 mil he will lose for handing in a transfer request ?
No.
I think Karl Bridges has it about right.
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So am I right in saying if you have a contract and the club sells you they have to pay that up ? A ''loyalty bonus ''
So if SD is on 50k a week is that £5.2 mil he will lose for handing in a transfer request ?
No.
I think Karl Bridges has it about right.
The fact is that when a player is sold within the contract period, the setllement is determined at that time often regardless of what it may say in the contract. There is a massive mis-understanding about contracts.
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Piss off (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14041899.stm)
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If they want him and he is prepared to go then do the deal, anything over £15mil is good business
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I can't see Downing putting in a transfer request, the thought of handing it to AM would probably frighten the life out of him.
He reminds me of Zilly* from 'Stop the Pigeon'.
*Zilly (voiced by Don Messick) is a pilot in the Vulture squadron. He is a cringing coward, forever running away and having to be fetched by Muttley. Each new plan fills him with dread, and he usually utters his catchphrase, "Oh dear! Oh my!", before retracting his head into his collar. Dastardly puts up with his cowardice because he is (1) a reasonably competent pilot who is needed to fly planes....
reasonably competent, cringing coward....that's Downing
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I doubt he'd personally hand a transfer request in anyway, I'd imagine his agent would do it for him. The big fanny.
I can't understand why Liverpool don't just pay the fucking money anyway. It's not hard is it? We've been through this game of brinksmanship with them before with Barry and it didn't work then. While I didn't want Ashley Young to leave at least Man U sorted it out relatively quickly and seemed to actually pay what we were asking for. Ditto Man City with Barry himself.
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I like the sound of this Barry Himself fellow.
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I like the sound of this Barry Himself fellow.
He's Raab's older, fatter, slower brother.
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Personally I think Downing would be pretty easy to replace so - after what's happened - I would prefer it that he leaves.
I also have a feeling that a few of the crowd would get on his back if he stayed and I do not think he has the character to deal with that, resulting in poor performances and a plummeting transfer value. At least now we're likely to get close to £20m (which is roughly what Mata is valued at!).
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I can't see Downing putting in a transfer request, the thought of handing it to AM would probably frighten the life out of him.
He reminds me of Zilly* from 'Stop the Pigeon'.
*Zilly (voiced by Don Messick) is a pilot in the Vulture squadron. He is a cringing coward, forever running away and having to be fetched by Muttley. Each new plan fills him with dread, and he usually utters his catchphrase, "Oh dear! Oh my!", before retracting his head into his collar. Dastardly puts up with his cowardice because he is (1) a reasonably competent pilot who is needed to fly planes....
reasonably competent, cringing coward....that's Downing
I think the only reason he has not spoken out publically is that he is too much of a coward and is trying to keep his options open. Indeed I imagine him telling Dalglish that he is deperate to leave and then taking putting him on hold to tell McLeish that he loves the club and will stay until the end of the career.
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The thing is, if he stays, what kind of reception will he get from the fans. If he has a bad start to the season, he will be accused of not "having his heart" in it, and could lead to a downward spiral. In the worst case scenario, he'll have a falling out with the McLeish, won't play, and then will be worth half as much next summer, or nothing the summer after!
Don't think I have read any quote from Downing that he wants to leave now or that he wants to join Liverpool this summer.
I've read and heard lots of crap about how liverpool is his destiny and that he should come running if Kenny calls - and that the villa should be thrilled that (gasp!) Liverpool want one of their players and send him gift wrapped for a couple of million because they are in Europe/CL apparently (I must have missed that) and we can't offer him the chances they can. Any amount of repeated stories in the press and on the radio along these lines still don't make any of this true. Can we calm down until and if he slaps in a transfer request? Then I'll believe it.
Slagging off a player for something he hasn't done is a shortsighted way to go about building a squad, whether you like him or not. And what's not to appreciate about the Player of The Season 2010-2011?
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I don't think I've heard much from Downing lately to quash these rumours - he could have done so easily.
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I don't think I've heard much from Downing lately to quash these rumours - he could have done so easily.
Haven't the players just arrived back from holiday? I can think of better ways to spend a holiday than to quash rumours.
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I like the 'put up or shut up' stance from Villa. Liverpool want him, so I'm sure there will some middle ground between £15-£20 million. He's a decent player, but we should snap their hand off for anything over £15 million.
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I don't think I've heard much from Downing lately to quash these rumours - he could have done so easily.
Haven't the players just arrived back from holiday? I can think of better ways to spend a holiday than to quash rumours.
You're right. He's staying. 100%.
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Fear the worst! Would you want to play for a team whose fans hate the manager, the best players keep getting sold every season and arent challenging for the top 6.
Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager, have plenty of History and will pay more money.
No brainer! Hes gone!
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
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Fear the worst! Would you want to play for a team whose fans hate the manager, the best players keep getting sold every season and arent challenging for the top 6.
Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager, have plenty of History and will pay more money.
No brainer! Hes gone!
We have plent of history too.
No argument with the rest.
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Fear the worst! Would you want to play for a team whose fans hate the manager, the best players keep getting sold every season and arent challenging for the top 6.
Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager, have plenty of History and will pay more money.
No brainer! Hes gone!
We have plent of history too.
No argument with the rest.
Downings history
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Fear the worst! Would you want to play for a team whose fans hate the manager, the best players keep getting sold every season and arent challenging for the top 6.
Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager, have plenty of History and will pay more money.
No brainer! Hes gone!
Some of our more excitable, obsessed by the Noses fans might hate him. Most of us are willing to give him a chance even if expectations are not particularly high.
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Downing is a side show, If Mcliesh falls into the trap of attempting to apease the fans by trying to look tough on the Downing transfer, he is a fool. The club needs some leadership right now, not a stupid gesture.
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
Blimey Leeg, with the best will in the world how do you work that one out?
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Yes, I think I'd take 5 European cups and 19 league titles inthe last 100 years, rather than 1 of each in all honesty!
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Downing is a side show, If Mcliesh falls into the trap of attempting to apease the fans by trying to look tough on the Downing transfer, he is a fool. The club needs some leadership right now, not a stupid gesture.
I'm starting to think that McLeish really, really, can't win.
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I wouldn't sell Downing unless he hands in a transfer request. If he wants to go that bad, he'll hand one in. Over to you Stewart.
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
Hmmm.....I mean - don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the Villa and what we stand for, when we were great, we started football etc etc but surely we all agree that the be all and end all of football is trophies and I'm afraid Liverpool wipe the floor with everyone.
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Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager,
let's see how much they idolise him when they finish outside the top 4.The deluded scousers are fully expecting to challenge for the title.I have a feeling they're going to be in for a rude awakening
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Fear the worst! Would you want to play for a team whose fans hate the manager, the best players keep getting sold every season and arent challenging for the top 6.
Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager, have plenty of History and will pay more money.
No brainer! Hes gone!
You do know this is a Villa site I presume????
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
Blimey Leeg, with the best will in the world how do you work that one out?
Sheer, unadulterated bias. Please don't let facts get in the way!
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
Blimey Leeg, with the best will in the world how do you work that one out?
I agree with Legion. We've both won everything, but they've had less England internationals and less seasons in the top flight. And standing up to Hitler and inventing the league trumps it all for me. Also, they are johnnie-come-latelies and the bastard offspring of Everton.
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They've won more stuff, but our history is more important and intersting I reckon. But again, that's because I love my club.
But also because it's true. Before the war Liverpool were largely irrelevant.
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They've won more stuff, but our history is more important and intersting I reckon. But again, that's because I love my club.
But also because it's true. Before the war Liverpool were largely irrelevant.
Which war? ???
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They've won more stuff, but our history is more important and intersting I reckon. But again, that's because I love my club.
But also because it's true. Before the war Liverpool were largely irrelevant.
They still are.
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They've won more stuff, but our history is more important and intersting I reckon. But again, that's because I love my club.
But also because it's true. Before the war Liverpool were largely irrelevant.
Which war? ???
Both of the big ones.
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They've won more stuff, but our history is more important and intersting I reckon. But again, that's because I love my club.
But also because it's true. Before the war Liverpool were largely irrelevant.
Which war? ???
The Falklands.
WWII, of course. Since the 60s they've made a big noise, attracting thousands of cowardly unimaginative reptilian glory supporters on the way. They've also made a song all clubs supporters used to sing their own, bless.
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They've won more stuff, but our history is more important and intersting I reckon. But again, that's because I love my club.
But also because it's true. Before the war Liverpool were largely irrelevant.
Which war? ???
Both of the big ones.
I was only saying that to someone the other day!!!
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Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager,
let's see how much they idolise him when they finish outside the top 4.The deluded scousers are fully expecting to challenge for the title.I have a feeling they're going to be in for a rude awakening
They're still in honeymoon mode with Dalgleish. A rude awakening is exactly what I expect.
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Or sign for someone whose fans idolise the manager,
let's see how much they idolise him when they finish outside the top 4.The deluded scousers are fully expecting to challenge for the title.I have a feeling they're going to be in for a rude awakening
They're still in honeymoon mode with Dalgleish. A rude awakening is exactly what I expect.
I gave my wife a rude awakening on our honeymoon.
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How are Liverpool going to fit all these midfield players into one team?
I could see them cashing in on Gerrard this summer. I'm sure abramovich would be stupid enough to spend £25m on him.
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
Blimey Leeg, with the best will in the world how do you work that one out?
I agree with Legion. We've both won everything, but they've had less England internationals and less seasons in the top flight. And standing up to Hitler and inventing the league trumps it all for me. Also, they are johnnie-come-latelies and the bastard offspring of Everton.
we have probaly had more England Internationals than them lately ...
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
Blimey Leeg, with the best will in the world how do you work that one out?
I agree with Legion. We've both won everything, but they've had less England internationals and less seasons in the top flight. And standing up to Hitler and inventing the league trumps it all for me. Also, they are johnnie-come-latelies and the bastard offspring of Everton.
we have probaly had more England Internationals than them lately ...
We've had more England Internationals than England.
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Our history is far superior to theirs. I can't argue with the rest, though.
Blimey Leeg, with the best will in the world how do you work that one out?
I agree with Legion. We've both won everything, but they've had less England internationals and less seasons in the top flight. And standing up to Hitler and inventing the league trumps it all for me. Also, they are johnnie-come-latelies and the bastard offspring of Everton.
we have probaly had more England Internationals than them lately ...
We've had more Englad internationals than them ever.
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we have had more england internationals than anyone, ever...
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They've won more stuff, but our history is more important and intersting I reckon. But again, that's because I love my club.
But also because it's true. Before the war Liverpool were largely irrelevant.
And after the war so have we,
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Apart from winning more or less every trophy you mean?
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Apart from winning more or less every trophy you mean?
He must mean Gulf War 2.
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Apart from winning more or less every trophy you mean?
He must mean Gulf War 2.
The first one.
Gulf one.
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Gulf War 1
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The first war in the gulf.
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Liverpool F.C. and history? They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties. They won six trophies in their first eight decades of existence. They started their "modern" winning streak when they came into money, ironically just at a time when the original giants of English football and its most successful club (us), started to financially implode.
There's a danger here are of confusing "winning trophies" with "history". When this happens we lose sight of context and what was going on in football at any particular time. Villa's history is far greater and richer than any other club's because of our influence on the game. Creating league football saved the sport and turned it into a world-wide phenomenon - making it the number one sport on the planet. Not only that, but because of Villa's league and the huge surge in the game's popularity, new clubs were formed and created on the back of the old, established clubs - one such club being Liverpool.
One of the many reasons why we will always be a greater club than Liverpool, with a greater history than Liverpool, is because there would be no Liverpool if it were not for Aston Villa.
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Liverpool F.C. and history? They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties. They won six trophies in their first eight decades of existence. They started their "modern" winning streak when they came into money, ironically just at a time when the original giants of English football and its most successful club (us), started to financially implode.
There's a danger here are of confusing "winning trophies" with "history". When this happens we lose sight of context and what was going on in football at any particular time. Villa's history is far greater and richer than any other club's because of our influence on the game. Creating league football saved the sport and turned it into a world-wide phenomenon - making it the number one sport on the planet. Not only that, but because of Villa's league and the huge surge in the game's popularity, new clubs were formed and created on the back of the old, established clubs - one such club being Liverpool.
One of the many reasons why we will always be a greater club than Liverpool, with a greater history than Liverpool, is because there would be no Liverpool if it were not for Aston Villa.
Applauds!
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LOL @ this thread.
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LOL @ this thread.
Go and LOL on a Liverpool forum then, if it's so amusing.
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LOL @ this thread.
Laugh it up Chuckles. As the years go by, there will be more and more clubs whose trophy count will match Liverpool's. But there will only ever be Aston Villa who can boast the rich history we can.
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LOL @ this thread.
If you want a good LOL just think Jordan Henderson and what he's cost you. I've been LOLing ever since.
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When you prostituted yourselves out to every Tom Dick and Harry just to make yourselves more money, cashing in on the success on the field, then you sold your soul.
You're not even the biggest club in your own city, that is Redman if you are from that city.
Lplop and Ure, can't stand either of them, give me proper supporters every time.
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Not sure what anybody is getting defensive about.
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So Downing is staying then?...
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Not sure what anybody is getting defensive about.
No one's getting defensive - just having a nice little stroll through our peerless history.
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Not sure what anybody is getting defensive about.
No one's getting defensive - just having a nice little stroll through our peerless history.
If you wandered into my house and started laughing at the decor, I would be equally as unimpressed.
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Liverpool F.C. and history? They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties. They won six trophies in their first eight decades of existence. They started their "modern" winning streak when they came into money, ironically just at a time when the original giants of English football and its most successful club (us), started to financially implode.
There's a danger here are of confusing "winning trophies" with "history". When this happens we lose sight of context and what was going on in football at any particular time. Villa's history is far greater and richer than any other club's because of our influence on the game. Creating league football saved the sport and turned it into a world-wide phenomenon - making it the number one sport on the planet. Not only that, but because of Villa's league and the huge surge in the game's popularity, new clubs were formed and created on the back of the old, established clubs - one such club being Liverpool.
One of the many reasons why we will always be a greater club than Liverpool, with a greater history than Liverpool, is because there would be no Liverpool if it were not for Aston Villa.
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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I wouldn't turn down the last 46 years of Liverpool's 'history'. They may no longer be the club they once were but I realistically can't see them dropping out of the top 6 over the next few years, even with Kenny Dalglish in charge.
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I wouldn't turn down the last 46 years of Liverpool's 'history'. They may no longer be the club they once were but I realistically can't see them dropping out of the top 6 over the next few years, even with Kenny Dalglish in charge.
Ideally what you want is Villa's history with the Red Scouse's trophies. What you don't want is a Liverpool fan coming on here and laughing at our devotion to what we do have.
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Liverpool F.C. and history? They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties. They won six trophies in their first eight decades of existence. They started their "modern" winning streak when they came into money, ironically just at a time when the original giants of English football and its most successful club (us), started to financially implode.
There's a danger here are of confusing "winning trophies" with "history". When this happens we lose sight of context and what was going on in football at any particular time. Villa's history is far greater and richer than any other club's because of our influence on the game. Creating league football saved the sport and turned it into a world-wide phenomenon - making it the number one sport on the planet. Not only that, but because of Villa's league and the huge surge in the game's popularity, new clubs were formed and created on the back of the old, established clubs - one such club being Liverpool.
One of the many reasons why we will always be a greater club than Liverpool, with a greater history than Liverpool, is because there would be no Liverpool if it were not for Aston Villa.
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Was your first post as good as this?
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That was his first post. He was banned for his second.
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Oh dear.
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That was his first post. He was banned for his second.
Kudos.
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Fans of other teams are more than welcome to post on this site providing they are constructive and not abusive, sendo whu being a perfect example.
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I wouldn't turn down the last 46 years of Liverpool's 'history'. They may no longer be the club they once were but I realistically can't see them dropping out of the top 6 over the next few years, even with Kenny Dalglish in charge.
Ideally what you want is Villa's history with the Red Scouse's trophies. What you don't want is a Liverpool fan coming on here and laughing at our devotion to what we do have.
That's twice you've presumed to know what I was laughing at.
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Fans of other teams are more than welcome to post on this site providing they are constructive and not abusive, sendo whu being a perfect example.
I have no problem with other fans posting. I don't particularly understand why they come on our forums to post, but each to their own. However, I do take exception to mockery, tongue-in-cheek or not.
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I think he was referring to myhaha.
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The interesting thiing is that, for all Liverpool's history (and let's be totally honest about it, it is outstanding), they haven't won the league for over twenty years now. In fact, the last time they won the league was only nine years after the last time we won it, which puts it into perspective somewhat. The CL win was obviously big, but they really do need to win the league some time soon.
I remember when Man United went 25 (or so) years without winning the league, then Ferguson did it, and look what has happened since. The difference is that Man United were perfectly placed to profit from the Sky football boom, coming to prominence when they did, and built on it accordingly.
Liverpool aren't going to have that luck. In fact, they're going to be trying to regain past glories when it is more difficult than ever, with plenty of teams with as much money as they have and a fading allure.
Interesting times.
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When I left my previous job, where I worked with a United and a Liverpool fan, I got them both a little leaving gift: a Subbuteo trophy in a case. For the United fan, I gave him the European Cup, as that's all they seem to care about (aside from this season, where the PL title became the be-all and end-all for about a week). For the Liverpool fan, I got her a Premier League trophy. I'm not a Liverpool fan (that much is clear, hopefully) but I was right on the money when she said it was the only one she really cared about.
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I think Redman and his alter-ego missed my point. They are debating this thread on the Liverpool.tv forum at the moment and if I could argue my point there I would do so but it appears one has to pay money to be a Liverpool.tv forum member. I hope the posters on here don't mind me addressing the concerns of Redman (Timynwa on Liverpool.tv) and his pal very quickly, should they return to read this thread. I think Redman's view on his thread is:
"Timynwa
Kopite
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 413
To be fair for such a ridiculous statement he's actually argued the point quite well. Think he's forgetting what 'history' is though, he's implying history is more important the further back you go ('They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties.') but that's just not true. "
No Redman.
I'm not implying that the further back you go the more important history is. That's what turgidly wretched Liverpool fans say to Chelsea fans. I'm implying that fundamental to football history is the influence of a club. Winning a whole load of trophies before Liverpool did does not make our history far superior to Liverpool's. Being England's most trophied club for three-quarters of the twentieth century does not solely make our history far, far superior to Liverpool's, either.
No, Redman, Aston Villa creating league football is what makes our history greater and far more influential than any other club on the planet - and if we hadn't have done it, if we hadn't created this game, your tedious, utter basket-case of a club would not exist.
Respect your elders and betters and tell your little friends on Liverpool.tv to stop being such a tiresome bunch of deluded, gloryhunting drama queens. (Chill out - You'll all be supporting Man City within five years and marvelling at their history anyway.)
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I think Redman and his alter-ego missed my point. They are debating this thread on the Liverpool.tv forum at the moment and if I could argue my point there I would do so but it appears one has to pay money to be a Liverpool.tv forum member. I hope the posters on here don't mind me addressing the concerns of Redman (Timynwa on Liverpool.tv) and his pal very quickly, should they return to read this thread. I think Redman's view on his thread is:
"Timynwa
Kopite
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 413
To be fair for such a ridiculous statement he's actually argued the point quite well. Think he's forgetting what 'history' is though, he's implying history is more important the further back you go ('They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties.') but that's just not true. "
No Redman.
I'm not implying that the further back you go the more important history is. That's what turgidly wretched Liverpool fans say to Chelsea fans. I'm implying that fundamental to football history is the influence of a club. Winning a whole load of trophies before Liverpool did does not make our history far superior to Liverpool's. Being England's most trophied club for three-quarters of the twentieth century does not solely make our history far, far superior to Liverpool's, either.
No, Redman, Aston Villa creating league football is what makes our history greater and far more influential than any other club on the planet - and if we hadn't have done it, if we hadn't created this game, your tedious, utter basket-case of a club would not exist.
Respect your elders and betters and tell your little friends on Liverpool.tv to stop being such a tiresome bunch of deluded, gloryhunting drama queens. (Chill out - You'll all be supporting Man City within five years and marvelling at their history anyway.)
Steady Billy, we have to take the feelings of visiting fans into account.
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No we don't. We can take their opinions and discuss them. Then we can decide that we are right and they are wrong in an amicable manner.
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Has our friend Redman been linking this thread to trampy Liverpool sites? Oh what a rascal. Only a fool would question our history. A fool, or some bandwagon jumper who got on the whole football trip post 1992. Same difference really. Nothing counts before that date.
Speaking of LOL, care to explain again how Liverpool were going to bid for Ashley Young and Downing, but that you'd generously let us keep Downing once you got Young? How did that pan out?
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The interesting thiing is that, for all Liverpool's history (and let's be totally honest about it, it is outstanding), they haven't won the league for over twenty years now. In fact, the last time they won the league was only nine years after the last time we won it, which puts it into perspective somewhat. The CL win was obviously big, but they really do need to win the league some time soon.
I remember when Man United went 25 (or so) years without winning the league, then Ferguson did it, and look what has happened since. The difference is that Man United were perfectly placed to profit from the Sky football boom, coming to prominence when they did, and built on it accordingly.
Liverpool aren't going to have that luck. In fact, they're going to be trying to regain past glories when it is more difficult than ever, with plenty of teams with as much money as they have and a fading allure.
Interesting times.
All true. I don't think Ferguson had the most difficult task establishing his club's dominance and I don't think he's ever assembled a truly great side but he has extended their spell at the top of the English game for an awfully long time. For me, that's his greatest achievement. As long as he's there, it'll be difficult for any team (including Liverpool) to topple the Mancs.
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I think Redman and his alter-ego missed my point. They are debating this thread on the Liverpool.tv forum at the moment and if I could argue my point there I would do so but it appears one has to pay money to be a Liverpool.tv forum member. I hope the posters on here don't mind me addressing the concerns of Redman (Timynwa on Liverpool.tv) and his pal very quickly, should they return to read this thread. I think Redman's view on his thread is:
"Timynwa
Kopite
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 413
To be fair for such a ridiculous statement he's actually argued the point quite well. Think he's forgetting what 'history' is though, he's implying history is more important the further back you go ('They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties.') but that's just not true. "
No Redman.
I'm not implying that the further back you go the more important history is. That's what turgidly wretched Liverpool fans say to Chelsea fans. I'm implying that fundamental to football history is the influence of a club. Winning a whole load of trophies before Liverpool did does not make our history far superior to Liverpool's. Being England's most trophied club for three-quarters of the twentieth century does not solely make our history far, far superior to Liverpool's, either.
No, Redman, Aston Villa creating league football is what makes our history greater and far more influential than any other club on the planet - and if we hadn't have done it, if we hadn't created this game, your tedious, utter basket-case of a club would not exist.
Respect your elders and betters and tell your little friends on Liverpool.tv to stop being such a tiresome bunch of deluded, gloryhunting drama queens. (Chill out - You'll all be supporting Man City within five years and marvelling at their history anyway.)
That's cold Billy Walker.
You obviously haven't experienced the magic of the Kop, with the lifeblood of the club - the hardcore support from Cornwall, the shire counties, Scandinavia and Ireland- getting the words wrong to all their songs.
They're looking at ways to improve Anfield apparently. Two seek and destroy scud missiles on match day ought to do it.
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That's cold Billy Walker.
You obviously haven't experienced the magic of the Kop, with the lifeblood of the club - the hardcore support from Cornwall, the shire counties, Scandinavia and Ireland- getting the words wrong to all their songs.
They're looking at ways to improve Anfield apparently. Two seek and destroy scud missiles on match day ought to do it.
I have, indeed, sampled The Kop, Kevin. I've sat in its spine-tingling silence.
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That's cold Billy Walker.
You obviously haven't experienced the magic of the Kop, with the lifeblood of the club - the hardcore support from Cornwall, the shire counties, Scandinavia and Ireland- getting the words wrong to all their songs.
They're looking at ways to improve Anfield apparently. Two seek and destroy scud missiles on match day ought to do it.
I have, indeed, sampled The Kop, Kevin. I've sat in its spine-tingling silence.
You misunderstand. When they're quiet they're just being knowledgeable.
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Either that, or taking pictures.
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I think Redman and his alter-ego missed my point. They are debating this thread on the Liverpool.tv forum at the moment and if I could argue my point there I would do so but it appears one has to pay money to be a Liverpool.tv forum member. I hope the posters on here don't mind me addressing the concerns of Redman (Timynwa on Liverpool.tv) and his pal very quickly, should they return to read this thread. I think Redman's view on his thread is:
"Timynwa
Kopite
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 413
To be fair for such a ridiculous statement he's actually argued the point quite well. Think he's forgetting what 'history' is though, he's implying history is more important the further back you go ('They didn't even win their first F.A. Cup until the mid-sixties.') but that's just not true. "
No Redman.
I'm not implying that the further back you go the more important history is. That's what turgidly wretched Liverpool fans say to Chelsea fans. I'm implying that fundamental to football history is the influence of a club. Winning a whole load of trophies before Liverpool did does not make our history far superior to Liverpool's. Being England's most trophied club for three-quarters of the twentieth century does not solely make our history far, far superior to Liverpool's, either.
No, Redman, Aston Villa creating league football is what makes our history greater and far more influential than any other club on the planet - and if we hadn't have done it, if we hadn't created this game, your tedious, utter basket-case of a club would not exist.
Respect your elders and betters and tell your little friends on Liverpool.tv to stop being such a tiresome bunch of deluded, gloryhunting drama queens. (Chill out - You'll all be supporting Man City within five years and marvelling at their history anyway.)
Hold your horses.
This has nothing to do with me.
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I'm looking forward to reading your future posts with your "Liverpoolfc.tv" buddies Redman. Should make for an entertaining season.How do you put up with that lot? It's like a Justin Bieber convention in there. Please don't tell me they all think West Life have a greater musical history/influence than Bob Dylan, too? (They have heard of Bob Dylan?)
Out of interest, have you seen the thread on here about how Villa and England were invited over to play Germany prior to the Second World War? Get your buddies to have a look at it. (Let's call it "Homework For The Glory Hunters".) A bit of football education will do them all the power of good.
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I'm looking forward to reading your future posts with your "Liverpoolfc.tv" buddies Redman. Should make for an entertaining season.How do you put up with that lot? It's like a Justin Bieber convention in there. Please don't tell me they all think West Life have a greater musical history/influence than Bob Dylan, too? (They have heard of Bob Dylan?)
Out of interest, have you seen the thread on here about how Villa and England were invited over to play Germany prior to the Second World War? Get your buddies to have a look at it. (Let's call it "Homework For The Glory Hunters".) A bit of football education will do them all the power of good.
Hold your horses.
This has nothing to do with me.
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Have a read of this thread Redman. I'd genuinely be interested to hear what a fan from another club thinks of this particular chapter in the history of football.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=44122.0
And point your excitable friends to this while you are at it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McGregor_(football)
Listen. No Aston Villa, no LEAGUE FOOTBALL. No Premier League, Champions League, whatever league you want. We created it. We even invited your parent club, the club you guys sprung from, Everton FC, to our league. This is OUR game, our competition. Without Villa there would be no Liverpool - there would have been no reason for a Liverpool fc to exist.
It's a shame Liverpool.tv is not open to outside posters because you would get some interesting debate going there.
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I have, indeed, sampled The Kop, Kevin. I've sat in its spine-tingling silence.
Glass houses & stones come to mind here. I know our away support is excellent but VP does not rock on a regular basis.
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The interesting thiing is that, for all Liverpool's history (and let's be totally honest about it, it is outstanding), they haven't won the league for over twenty years now. In fact, the last time they won the league was only nine years after the last time we won it, which puts it into perspective somewhat. The CL win was obviously big, but they really do need to win the league some time soon.
I remember when Man United went 25 (or so) years without winning the league, then Ferguson did it, and look what has happened since. The difference is that Man United were perfectly placed to profit from the Sky football boom, coming to prominence when they did, and built on it accordingly.
Liverpool aren't going to have that luck. In fact, they're going to be trying to regain past glories when it is more difficult than ever, with plenty of teams with as much money as they have and a fading allure.
Interesting times.
All true. I don't think Ferguson had the most difficult task establishing his club's dominance and I don't think he's ever assembled a truly great side but he has extended their spell at the top of the English game for an awfully long time. For me, that's his greatest achievement. As long as he's there, it'll be difficult for any team (including Liverpool) to topple the Mancs.
Really? Never created a truly great side? Are you sure?
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Have a read of this thread Redman. I'd genuinely be interested to hear what a fan from another club thinks of this particular chapter in the history of football.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=44122.0
It's clearly something to be proud of.
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Hi Redman
what are your expectations for this season ?
Do you realy believe that the gambles that Kenny has made will pay off?
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I have, indeed, sampled The Kop, Kevin. I've sat in its spine-tingling silence.
Glass houses & stones come to mind here. I know our away support is excellent but VP does not rock on a regular basis.
True enough, but their away support is a bag of balls too. Compare the end of season away at Arsenal with their day-trip to B6
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The interesting thiing is that, for all Liverpool's history (and let's be totally honest about it, it is outstanding), they haven't won the league for over twenty years now. In fact, the last time they won the league was only nine years after the last time we won it, which puts it into perspective somewhat. The CL win was obviously big, but they really do need to win the league some time soon.
I remember when Man United went 25 (or so) years without winning the league, then Ferguson did it, and look what has happened since. The difference is that Man United were perfectly placed to profit from the Sky football boom, coming to prominence when they did, and built on it accordingly.
Liverpool aren't going to have that luck. In fact, they're going to be trying to regain past glories when it is more difficult than ever, with plenty of teams with as much money as they have and a fading allure.
Interesting times.
All true. I don't think Ferguson had the most difficult task establishing his club's dominance and I don't think he's ever assembled a truly great side but he has extended their spell at the top of the English game for an awfully long time. For me, that's his greatest achievement. As long as he's there, it'll be difficult for any team (including Liverpool) to topple the Mancs.
Really? Never created a truly great side? Are you sure?
Absolutely.
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I have, indeed, sampled The Kop, Kevin. I've sat in its spine-tingling silence.
Glass houses & stones come to mind here. I know our away support is excellent but VP does not rock on a regular basis.
Maybe the point there is we don't bore the arse off the world with tall tales of the Magic of the Holte? (though in my experience -even if it is a notch or two below it's halcyon days- it's still one of the better stands in England. Biased? Never.)
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This thing about home support is a load of rubbish, all supporters claim that they have more passion than the home supporters because it is usually true. Villa Park has often been bereft of atmosphere.
Apparently Stokies are different, PersonalyI have never had the urge to see a load of interbred half wits making lots of noise in a mecarno constructed charecterless edifice.
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Hi Redman
what are your expectations for this season ?
Do you realy believe that the gambles that Kenny has made will pay off?
Hi Hawkeye.
My only expectation is CL qualification. I'll be disappointed with anything less. It won't be easy but I sense enough vulnerability amongst the current the top-4 to bridge the gap.
As for Kenny's signings, we've overpaid in some cases but I do think we've bought good players to fit a system. It seems Kenny has a vision of how he wants to play and he's targeting players with specific attributes. I don't think there'll be as much pressure for our signings to perform immediately as we'll have more depth.
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Redman do you rate Downing?
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Redman do you rate Downing?
I rate him to an extent. I would rather have Young but I like the consistency of Downing's crossing. Top priority for me this summer was to buy players to service Andy Carroll and I think Downing is a fairly safe bet in that regard.
Not sure I'd pay £20m for him though. More talented wingers like Vargas and Bastos are a similar age and likely available for less.
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I have, indeed, sampled The Kop, Kevin. I've sat in its spine-tingling silence.
Glass houses & stones come to mind here. I know our away support is excellent but VP does not rock on a regular basis.
True enough, but their away support is a bag of balls too. Compare the end of season away at Arsenal with their day-trip to B6
All home support is gash these days, but Liverpool's away support is utterly dreadful.
The Mancs are annoying with their well honed "we'll do what we want" nonsense, but they at least seem to be a manifestation of their support which is largely from Manchester, and thus at odd with their home support.
Liverpool's away support is toe-curlingly embarassiong. Jester hat wearing Irish once-a-year types, star struck Scandinavians, and camera toting tourists who have never been to a match before and find the whole experience somewhat mind boggling.
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Redman do you rate Downing?
I rate him to an extent. I would rather have Young but I like the consistency of Downing's crossing. Top priority for me this summer was to buy players to service Andy Carroll and I think Downing is a fairly safe bet in that regard.
Not sure I'd pay £20m for him though. More talented wingers like Vargas and Bastos are a similar age and likely available for less.
They would want Champs League footy, surely? I fear they would be aiming a little higher than 'Pool. Downing is perfect for a club aiming for top six - and for twenty million it would be the perfect deal for all parties in my view.
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Redman,
You mention that Kenny has a "system". What do you think that is? Based on the signings and reported targets (especially when you consider the plus points of Lucas and Meriles (sp?) last season). I am struggling to see where Gerrard fits into the first XI. Admittedly it's a squad game nowadays but if you had a bad start I could see a Kenny v Gerrard war developing amoungst the fans or alternatively Henderson being marginalised.
From an outsiders perspective that would be great to watch but I guess not from your point of view and equally harsh on Henderson who will be desperate for games to justfy his fee.
So how do you think they'll line up?
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Redman do you rate Downing?
I rate him to an extent. I would rather have Young but I like the consistency of Downing's crossing. Top priority for me this summer was to buy players to service Andy Carroll and I think Downing is a fairly safe bet in that regard.
Not sure I'd pay £20m for him though. More talented wingers like Vargas and Bastos are a similar age and likely available for less.
They would want Champs League footy, surely? I fear they would be aiming a little higher than 'Pool. Downing is perfect for a club aiming for top six - and for twenty million it would be the perfect deal for all parties in my view.
CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
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City offer stratospheric money, though. Liverpool don't.
It's a pretty big swinging factor.
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CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
Being able to offer any player astronomical wages helps though.
You can't offer either CL football or astronomical wages, just being Liverpool and having Kenny won't help sign today's pampered superstar I'm afraid. Welcome to the World of the wannabe also-ran Redman!
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Redman,
You mention that Kenny has a "system". What do you think that is as based on the signings and reported targets (especially when you consider the plus points of Lucas and Meriles (sp?) last season). I am struggling to see where Gerrard fits into the first XI. Admittedly it's a squad game nowadays but if you had a bad start I could see a Kenny v Gerrard war developing amoungst the fans or alternatively Henderson being marginalised.
From an outsiders perspective that would be great to watch but I guess not from your point of view and equally harsh on Henderson who will be desperate for games to justfy his fee.
So how do you think they'll line up?
It's a fair point and something I'm curious about myself. Gerrard has barely played under Kenny so it's difficult to envisage where he'll fit in.
It looks like Meireles will be sold and I'd guess Shelvey will go out on loan. So that leaves Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson, Adam, possibly Aquilani and Spearing competing for the midfield positions. I wouldn't be surprised if we played a lot with 3 or even 4 central midfielders. Henderson, Gerrard and Adam can all play wide if required.
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City offer stratospheric money, though. Liverpool don't.
It's a pretty big swinging factor.
Liverpool pay bigger than most and according to the owner, are prepared to pay bigger.
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CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
Being able to offer any player astronomical wages helps though.
You can't offer either CL football or astronomical wages, just being Liverpool and having Kenny won't help sign today's pampered superstar I'm afraid. Welcome to the World of the wannabe also-ran Redman!
Somebody forgot to tell Suarez.
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Redman, why haven't manure assembled a great side? I hate man utd and I hate Fergie, but the mans an excellent manager and they have had some truley excellent players.
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Redman,
You mention that Kenny has a "system". What do you think that is as based on the signings and reported targets (especially when you consider the plus points of Lucas and Meriles (sp?) last season). I am struggling to see where Gerrard fits into the first XI. Admittedly it's a squad game nowadays but if you had a bad start I could see a Kenny v Gerrard war developing amoungst the fans or alternatively Henderson being marginalised.
From an outsiders perspective that would be great to watch but I guess not from your point of view and equally harsh on Henderson who will be desperate for games to justfy his fee.
So how do you think they'll line up?
It's a fair point and something I'm curious about myself. Gerrard has barely played under Kenny so it's difficult to envisage where he'll fit in.
It looks like Meireles will be sold and I'd guess Shelvey will go out on loan. So that leaves Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson, Adam, possibly Aquilani and Spearing competing for the midfield positions. I wouldn't be surprised if we played a lot with 3 or even 4 central midfielders. Henderson, Gerrard and Adam can all play wide if required.
Then add Downing to the mix and the fact that both Suarez and Caroll justify a starting berth. I dunno, I still think it's a bit lop sided and must give hope to the other teams in the chasing pack (and Villa).
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Suarez is not a superstar! If and when he reaches that status he'll be wearing a Real Madrid/Barca shirt. Let's not swallow the Scouse media hype. He's a good player, though, I'll grant you.
Redman what is your view on having Alonso and Mascherano in your midfield two years ago and Henderson and Adam this season? Can this really be considered progress?
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Redman, why haven't manure assembled a great side? I hate man utd and I hate Fergie, but the mans an excellent manager and they have had some truley excellent players.
I mean genuinely great.
No Man U side has dominated both at home and Europe nor have they redefined how football should be played. Fergie's had a quarter of a century to assemble a side capable of matching the likes of Michel's Ajax, Saachi's Milan or Guardiola's Barca and not come close. There's no shame in that though.
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Redman,
You mention that Kenny has a "system". What do you think that is as based on the signings and reported targets (especially when you consider the plus points of Lucas and Meriles (sp?) last season). I am struggling to see where Gerrard fits into the first XI. Admittedly it's a squad game nowadays but if you had a bad start I could see a Kenny v Gerrard war developing amoungst the fans or alternatively Henderson being marginalised.
From an outsiders perspective that would be great to watch but I guess not from your point of view and equally harsh on Henderson who will be desperate for games to justfy his fee.
So how do you think they'll line up?
It's a fair point and something I'm curious about myself. Gerrard has barely played under Kenny so it's difficult to envisage where he'll fit in.
It looks like Meireles will be sold and I'd guess Shelvey will go out on loan. So that leaves Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson, Adam, possibly Aquilani and Spearing competing for the midfield positions. I wouldn't be surprised if we played a lot with 3 or even 4 central midfielders. Henderson, Gerrard and Adam can all play wide if required.
Then add Downing to the mix and the fact that both Suarez and Caroll justify a starting berth. I dunno, I still think it's a bit lop sided and must give hope to the other teams in the chasing pack (and Villa).
It's just strength in depth, surely?
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But they've won european trophies and dominated English football for years. Isn't that what matters? No offence but what have Liverpool done in recent years? Birmingham City have won more in the last 5 years!
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Suarez is not a superstar! If and when he reaches that status he'll be wearing a Real Madrid/Barca shirt. Let's not swallow the Scouse media hype. He's a good player, though, I'll grant you.
Redman what is your view on having Alonso and Mascherano in your midfield two years ago and Henderson and Adam this season? Can this really be considered progress?
Let me tell you - compared to Bastos and Vargas, Suarez is very much a superstar. We just bought him at the right time. Had it been this summer, competition would have been a lot more fierce. Not many clubs were busy in the January market and ordinarily, players of Suarez's quality wouldn't have been available anyway.
As for Henderson and Adam, neither have kicked a ball for Liverpool yet so it's impossible to say.
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But they've won european trophies and dominated English football for years. Isn't that what matters? No offence but what have Liverpool done in recent years? Birmingham City have won more in the last 5 years!
That's a different argument.
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Maybe, well yes, but it somewhat depends on the personalities and I doubt Gerrard will play the squad player on the bench. As a result Henderson wil hardly get a game and waste the potential that he has.
I suppose my gripe is with the modern footballer. Henderson would've played every week at Sunderland and as a result become a better player (although poorer). There is a risk he'll become another sidwell or Parker who both stalled their careers by going to Chelsea. Ditto Milner to Man City.
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I'm watching the Copa America right now and Suarez looks every bit a quality player.
I'm amazed spurs never used their Chumps league carrot to get him in Jamuary. Fair play to liverpool for taking the risk.
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Maybe, well yes, but it somewhat depends on the personalities and I doubt Gerrard will play the squad player on the bench. As a result Henderson wil hardly get a game and waste the potential that he has.
I suppose my gripe is with the modern footballer. Henderson would've played every week at Sunderland and as a result become a better player (although poorer). There is a risk he'll become another sidwell or Parker who both stalled their careers by going to Chelsea. Ditto Milner to Man City.
I take your point. We'll have to see how it works out. Deep squads always leave casualties. Assuming time and injury haven't yet caught up with Gerrard, I expect him to be the first name on the teamsheet next season.
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Didn't think Suarez was that much of a risk TBH.
Was Ajax's best player when we played them at VP back in 2008 and kept an eye on him since then. He's the kind of player we should have been targeting - pre World Cup 2010. It's nigh on impossible to get them when they become well known.
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CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
Being able to offer any player astronomical wages helps though.
You can't offer either CL football or astronomical wages, just being Liverpool and having Kenny won't help sign today's pampered superstar I'm afraid. Welcome to the World of the wannabe also-ran Redman!
Somebody forgot to tell Suarez.
That'll be the Suarez from the Dutch league (about on par with the Scottish in real terms) that none of the real CL powerhouses bothered to bid for and you paid exactly how much for?
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Didn't think Suarez was that much of a risk TBH.
Was Ajax's best player when we played them at VP back in 2008 and kept an eye on him since then. He's the kind of player we should have been targeting - pre World Cup 2010. It's nigh on impossible to get them when they become well known.
Yeah - you've got to get in there early these days. The latest batch of promising Dutch-based attackers have been snapped up already. Castaignos has gone to Inter, Van Wolkswinkel to Sporting and Sigthorsson to Ajax. There's still a young Slovenian stirker ready to be plucked from Groningen though.
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CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
Being able to offer any player astronomical wages helps though.
You can't offer either CL football or astronomical wages, just being Liverpool and having Kenny won't help sign today's pampered superstar I'm afraid. Welcome to the World of the wannabe also-ran Redman!
Somebody forgot to tell Suarez.
That'll be the Suarez from the Dutch league (about on par with the Scottish in real terms) that none of the real CL powerhouses bothered to bid for and you paid exactly how much for?
Come off it.
The only reason he didn't move after the world cup (a very successful one by the way) was because Ajax priced him out of it. When January came round, not many clubs were in the market but Liverpool were, Ajax needed the money and Suarez fancied it. £22.7m he cost - the third biggest deal in Dutch history after Van Nistlerooy and Sneijder.
So if you're making the point that Suarez doesn't prove Liverpool can attract CL quality players, it's not very convincing.
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Didn't think Suarez was that much of a risk TBH.
Was Ajax's best player when we played them at VP back in 2008 and kept an eye on him since then. He's the kind of player we should have been targeting - pre World Cup 2010. It's nigh on impossible to get them when they become well known.
Yeah - you've got to get in there early these days. The latest batch of promising Dutch-based attackers have been snapped up already. Castaignos has gone to Inter, Van Wolkswinkel to Sporting and Sigthorsson to Ajax. There's still a young Slovenian stirker ready to be plucked from Groningen though.
Wolfswinkel from Utrecht? I didn't know that.
Though with a name like that, he'd have to be absolutely outstanding in England to avoid getting a rough time.
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But they've won european trophies and dominated English football for years. Isn't that what matters? No offence but what have Liverpool done in recent years? Birmingham City have won more in the last 5 years!
That's a different argument.
Yeah sorry the mind wondered in my sleepless state! But I don't see how man utd haven't had a genuinly great team in all this time?
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Stewie is average to be brutally honest. We could replace him with an overseas winger as good or better for a fraction of what Liverpool will fork out for DJ Stew. Get rid, and quick, so we can get about our business.
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By the way, has anyone actually come out publicly and suggested that the "right" thing for Downing to do would be to commit himself to Villa in order to repay the loyalty Villa showed in him, when he was injured?
I know it probably won't happen, but I'm interested to know whether or not anyone has actually insinuated this in the press.
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Come on redman, pay up and show us the money- you know the asking fee so let's get this show on the road.
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Thought this was an interesting view :
Hmm, still not feeling any tingly sensations in the old marble pouch on the Downing front but fair enough article. He's a known quantity and does what it says on the tin.
Let's just hope Liverpool hire Cilla Black to introduce him at the press conference.
"And here's summer signing number three, and he's our Stewart and he's from Middlesbrough! Aww, isn't he lovely, girls? And he cost a lorra lorra money. So our Stewart, which kind of lovely crosses would you like to find flying off your left boot?"
"Er, well".
"Take your time, our Stewart"
"They're all so lovely, it's hard to choose really"
"Awww bless him! Well, you're a lovely fella and we wish you a lorra lorra luck"
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CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
Being able to offer any player astronomical wages helps though.
You can't offer either CL football or astronomical wages, just being Liverpool and having Kenny won't help sign today's pampered superstar I'm afraid. Welcome to the World of the wannabe also-ran Redman!
Somebody forgot to tell Suarez.
That'll be the Suarez from the Dutch league (about on par with the Scottish in real terms) that none of the real CL powerhouses bothered to bid for and you paid exactly how much for?
Come off it.
The only reason he didn't move after the world cup (a very successful one by the way) was because Ajax priced him out of it. When January came round, not many clubs were in the market but Liverpool were, Ajax needed the money and Suarez fancied it. £22.7m he cost - the third biggest deal in Dutch history after Van Nistlerooy and Sneijder.
So if you're making the point that Suarez doesn't prove Liverpool can attract CL quality players, it's not very convincing.
Aye, it's a bit like signing a slightly younger John Carew.
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Curious and irritating that even in this pretty fair assessment (in my view) of Downing's ability, the general drift of the article is that he deserves to be at a 'better' club than Villa, in this case Liverpool. This assumption permeates the entire sporting press and does most football fans and most football clubs a huge disservice.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jul/08/stewart-downing-liverpool-steve-mcclaren
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He's a Liverpool supporter, I believe, writing a Liverpool blog. Does The Guardian employ the services of a Villa blogger, I wonder?
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He's a Liverpool supporter, I believe, writing a Liverpool blog. Does The Guardian employ the services of a Villa blogger, I wonder?
On the face of it, very doubtful.
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Stewie is average to be brutally honest. We could replace him with an overseas winger as good or better for a fraction of what Liverpool will fork out for DJ Stew. Get rid, and quick, so we can get about our business.
Throwing in the towel already? Strange how a player becomes more and more average in the mind of some the closer said player moves towards the exit door.
Downing will be a loss. Just like Young. Why mug yourself off by making stupid comments like that?
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Welcome to you too.......please tread carefully around here when making strong comments to fellow posters.
I think SD has decided he's going and we realistically don't have much chance of keeping him, I think its just about maximising the upside for us.
Plus I was never a fan of the faint hearted lion
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Stewie is average to be brutally honest. We could replace him with an overseas winger as good or better for a fraction of what Liverpool will fork out for DJ Stew. Get rid, and quick, so we can get about our business.
Throwing in the towel already? Strange how a player becomes more and more average in the mind of some the closer said player moves towards the exit door.
Downing will be a loss. Just like Young. Why mug yourself off by making stupid comments like that?
its also amazing how much better a player becomes when a fan of a club thinks he is about to join them...
although if you look past the 1 post you have on here, you will see that quite a few fans dont rate downing and never have...
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its also amazing how much better a player becomes when a fan of a club thinks he is about to join them...
although if you look past the 1 post you have on here, you will see that quite a few fans dont rate downing and never have...
Downing was unlucky enough to be signed during a period when you were all expecting Sneijder and god knows who else. The summer of 2009 was a crazy time for Villa fans and poor Downing has obviously born the brunt of your delusions in the two seasons since.
He shouldn't make the Liverpool first eleven in the manner he does Aston Villas but he'll be handy to have around. What say you to £10 million? A fair sum for a fair player. No more, no less. ;)
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Yeah those two Wembley trips in 2010 were really hard to bare. Poor Stewart!
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its also amazing how much better a player becomes when a fan of a club thinks he is about to join them...
although if you look past the 1 post you have on here, you will see that quite a few fans dont rate downing and never have...
Downing was unlucky enough to be signed during a period when you were all expecting Sneijder and god knows who else. The summer of 2009 was a crazy time for Villa fans and poor Downing has obviously born the brunt of your delusions in the two seasons since.
He shouldn't make the Liverpool first eleven in the manner he does Aston Villas but he'll be handy to have around. What say you to £10 million? A fair sum for a fair player. No more, no less. ;)
Aye, I wouldn't be surprised if Liverpoor try and play poormouth on this one again, as per the Barry deal. The smallest big club in the land.
And the irony of a Liverpool fan talking about delusional behaviour. I'd guess you'd be experts mind.
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Let him be. We also had a time when we thought our owner could afford a perpetual spending spree, that our manager was the Messiah, and that it only was a question of time before we were in the Champions League. Granted, we were nowhere near as smug about it, but it would be cruel to wake him up from his dream when it has just started.
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its also amazing how much better a player becomes when a fan of a club thinks he is about to join them...
although if you look past the 1 post you have on here, you will see that quite a few fans dont rate downing and never have...
Downing was unlucky enough to be signed during a period when you were all expecting Sneijder and god knows who else. The summer of 2009 was a crazy time for Villa fans and poor Downing has obviously born the brunt of your delusions in the two seasons since.
He shouldn't make the Liverpool first eleven in the manner he does Aston Villas but he'll be handy to have around. What say you to £10 million? A fair sum for a fair player. No more, no less. ;)
Aye, I wouldn't be surprised if Liverpoor try and play poormouth on this one again, as per the Barry deal. The smallest big club in the land.
And the irony of a Liverpool fan talking about delusional behaviour. I'd guess you'd be experts mind.
Hypocritical post, that. All Liverpool are looking for is value for money. To read more into it than that is delusional.
The only way to overcome delusion is to accept all football supporters are essentially the same. We just have different allegiances and we're all as deluded as each other.
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Fair point, but actions speak louder than words. Liverpool have shown a willingness to spend over the odds earlier for players that aren't for sale. Downing isn't for sale. Why shouldn't we expect you to overpay this time? We don't need to sell Downing.
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Fair point, but actions speak louder than words. Liverpool have shown a willingness to spend over the odds earlier for players that aren't for sale. Downing isn't for sale. Why shouldn't we expect you to overpay this time? We don't need to sell Downing.
You shouldn't expect us to because of Downing's age and future resale value. Otherwise, I agree. He's under contract and you are within your rights to price him out of a deal.
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Stewie is average to be brutally honest. We could replace him with an overseas winger as good or better for a fraction of what Liverpool will fork out for DJ Stew. Get rid, and quick, so we can get about our business.
Throwing in the towel already? Strange how a player becomes more and more average in the mind of some the closer said player moves towards the exit door.
Downing will be a loss. Just like Young. Why mug yourself off by making stupid comments like that?
Why make yourself look stupid by sounding like Ian Wright?
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Fair point, but actions speak louder than words. Liverpool have shown a willingness to spend over the odds earlier for players that aren't for sale. Downing isn't for sale. Why shouldn't we expect you to overpay this time? We don't need to sell Downing.
You shouldn't expect us to because of Downing's age and future resale value. Otherwise, I agree. He's under contract and you are within your rights to price him out of a deal.
I think this is the crux of the matter. You see Downing as a useful addition, but by no means essential and have no problems moving on to other targets if our asking price is too high. However, we have already sold Young, made a controversiel manager appointment and can only defend selling Downing if we get an inflated fee.
What complicates matters is that Downing's head is turned. However, unless he puts in a transfer request I don't think that'll make a difference.
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its also amazing how much better a player becomes when a fan of a club thinks he is about to join them...
although if you look past the 1 post you have on here, you will see that quite a few fans dont rate downing and never have...
Downing was unlucky enough to be signed during a period when you were all expecting Sneijder and god knows who else. The summer of 2009 was a crazy time for Villa fans and poor Downing has obviously born the brunt of your delusions in the two seasons since.
He shouldn't make the Liverpool first eleven in the manner he does Aston Villas but he'll be handy to have around. What say you to £10 million? A fair sum for a fair player. No more, no less. ;)
Aye, I wouldn't be surprised if Liverpoor try and play poormouth on this one again, as per the Barry deal. The smallest big club in the land.
And the irony of a Liverpool fan talking about delusional behaviour. I'd guess you'd be experts mind.
Hypocritical post, that. All Liverpool are looking for is value for money. To read more into it than that is delusional.
The only way to overcome delusion is to accept all football supporters are essentially the same. We just have different allegiances and we're all as deluded as each other.
It was the dreg you no doubt introduced to the thread who mentioned the d word, but no matter.
On a wider point:
Is anyone else getting a wee bit bored of Liverpool fans telling us what we should and shouldn't accept? Definitely shades of deja vu with the Barry deal there.
I'm trying to think of all the various players we've signed in previous years -plenty of them for big fees. Did any of our lot go on opposition websites, in the mistaken belief we could get the price down? As if we were agents of the club in some way? Is that how it works? It seems to be a peculiar trait specific to the bindippers, as I don't recall fans of other clubs coming on here (or other Villa websites) and trying it either.
The current club sets the asking price -that's generally the norm in these scenarios. There might be a bit of room for manoeuvre if the bid is closer to our valuation and doesn't take the piss. But when it comes down to it, it's a case of pay or don't. If the Redscouse ultimately believe the price to be unreasonable -as their fans so clearly do- fine. Move on.
Go and spunk the guts of £20-£30 million on another promising Championship/ lower Prem U21 international.
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Its simple enough really.We don't want to sell him, and he has 2 years left on his contract.
If Lplop want him, make us an offer we can't refuse.Start at £20m and we might reconsider, anything less than that we don't have to bother.
FWIW he flatters to me, good footballer, but an absolute tart, not a winner in my eyes.Better footballer than AY, but not a better player.
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It was the dreg you no doubt introduced to the thread who mentioned the d word, but no matter.
More delusion.
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its also amazing how much better a player becomes when a fan of a club thinks he is about to join them...
although if you look past the 1 post you have on here, you will see that quite a few fans dont rate downing and never have...
Downing was unlucky enough to be signed during a period when you were all expecting Sneijder and god knows who else. The summer of 2009 was a crazy time for Villa fans and poor Downing has obviously born the brunt of your delusions in the two seasons since.
He shouldn't make the Liverpool first eleven in the manner he does Aston Villas but he'll be handy to have around. What say you to £10 million? A fair sum for a fair player. No more, no less. ;)
I've got a suggestion:
Fuck off.
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I've got a suggestion. Please be civil. I don't think he's being serious.
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It was the dreg you no doubt introduced to the thread who mentioned the d word, but no matter.
More delusion.
Excuse my cynicism, but we seem to have an infestation of scabs roughly coinciding with the same time you pitched up here.
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I've got a suggestion. Please be civil. I don't think he's being serious.
It's hard to tell, with or without emoticons. Why come on to a Villa board and suggest that us thinking big was delusional?
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Redman has been a member for quite a while. myhaha was a recent acquisition who was banned.
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It was the dreg you no doubt introduced to the thread who mentioned the d word, but no matter.
More delusion.
Excuse my cynicism, but we seem to have an infestation of scabs roughly coinciding with the same time you pitched up here.
Quite. I read in the Guardian the other day that Dalgleish will make them champions again. Now THAT is delusional. They struggled to get sixth in a season that was terrible in terms of quality last time out, are not in europe, yet are telling everyone that they're about to win the league again. Mad heads, the lot of them.
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Excuse my cynicism, but we seem to have an infestation of scabs roughly coinciding with the same time you pitched up here.
It's up to you whether to believe it's a coincidence or not. Doesn't matter to me.
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Redman has been a member for quite a while. myhaha was a recent acquisition who was banned.
Yes and his comments make for good debate. BCB's comment however was posted in order to inflame, that's why I got all pissy :)
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Redman, genuine questions:
How's the "Scouse Not English" thing going? Do The Spirit of Shankly still push this astonishing piece of cultural revisionism? What do you think was the motivation behind starting up such a group/campaign?
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CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
Being able to offer any player astronomical wages helps though.
You can't offer either CL football or astronomical wages, just being Liverpool and having Kenny won't help sign today's pampered superstar I'm afraid. Welcome to the World of the wannabe also-ran Redman!
I feel it's going to take them some time to accept it. It's a cold, hard reality, that's for certain.
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Redman, genuine questions:
How's the "Scouse Not English" thing going? Do The Spirit of Shankly still push this astonishing piece of cultural revisionism? What do you think was the motivation behind starting up such a group/campaign?
If I thought it was a genuine question, I'd happily indulge you.
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CL is not the be-all-and-end-all. No CL footie hasn't done City's recruitment drive much harm. And we're talking about Vargas and Bastos here, not Sanchez and Neymar.
Being able to offer any player astronomical wages helps though.
You can't offer either CL football or astronomical wages, just being Liverpool and having Kenny won't help sign today's pampered superstar I'm afraid. Welcome to the World of the wannabe also-ran Redman!
I feel it's going to take them some time to accept it. It's a cold, hard reality, that's for certain.
Not being in the CL this season is a cold hard reality.
Not being able to offer large wages isn't. We do that already. And considering most Liverpool supporters attribute the recent downfall to the previous regime, why would we accept our current position outside the top-4 now that regime has gone?
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its also amazing how much better a player becomes when a fan of a club thinks he is about to join them...
although if you look past the 1 post you have on here, you will see that quite a few fans dont rate downing and never have...
Downing was unlucky enough to be signed during a period when you were all expecting Sneijder and god knows who else. The summer of 2009 was a crazy time for Villa fans and poor Downing has obviously born the brunt of your delusions in the two seasons since.
He shouldn't make the Liverpool first eleven in the manner he does Aston Villas but he'll be handy to have around. What say you to £10 million? A fair sum for a fair player. No more, no less. ;)
would that be 10 mill for the player you already offered 15 mill for ?
i agree with your sentiments though,
SD is a fair player on his day, and a waste of space when its not, but your the guys persuing him, i hope you get him,
we actually dont need a replacement for him as we already got a better player in Allbrighton, obviously thats just my opinion, and one i had for the whole of last season when SD was supposedly 'awesome' in most games, something which i failed to see,
but hey ho, just give us the money and you can keep him
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why would we accept our current position outside the top-4 now that regime has gone?
Because there is no natural gravity force that pulls Liverpool to the top unless there is some evil Yanks holding you back. Yet you Liverpool fans seemingly believe so.
I'm not saying that you cannot get back into the top 4, but I suspect that you'll find it a lot harder than you believe it will be.
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Put yourself in SD shoes....
Same wages......
Kenny Dalgish manager or Alex Mcleish.
Bent & Abnoglahor or Carroll & Scharez
To supply the strike force or work with the manager?
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Put yourself in SD shoes....
Same wages......
Kenny Dalgish manager or Alex Mcleish.
Bent & Abnoglahor or Carroll & Scharez
To supply the strike force or work with the manager?
Not up to SD though is it.He has got 2 years left on his contract
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Put yourself in SD shoes....
Same wages......
Kenny Dalgish manager or Alex Mcleish.
Bent & Abnoglahor or Carroll & Scharez
To supply the strike force or work with the manager?
I genuinely can't work out whether you're trying to say that he's better of staying with us or moving.
He would get the play with THE Andy Carroll?
What an honour.
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Put yourself in SD shoes....
Same wages......
Kenny Dalgish manager or Alex Mcleish.
Bent & Abnoglahor or Carroll & Scharez
To supply the strike force or work with the manager?
I genuinely can't work out whether you're trying to say that he's better of staying with us or moving.
He would get the play with THE Andy Carroll?
What an honour.
Maybe it's easier to cross accurately when you can aim at the pony-tail.
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Not if the ponytail is in Broadmoor.
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Put yourself in SD shoes....
Same wages......
Kenny Dalgish manager or Alex Mcleish.
Bent & Abnoglahor or Carroll & Scharez
To supply the strike force or work with the manager?
I genuinely can't work out whether you're trying to say that he's better of staying with us or moving.
He would get the play with THE Andy Carroll?
What an honour.
Me too, I can't work it out what he was implying. The way it's been put I'd rather play for Villa.
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I think he's having one of these silly, tedious digs at the manager that are becoming de rigueur.
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why would we accept our current position outside the top-4 now that regime has gone?
Because there is no natural gravity force that pulls Liverpool to the top unless there is some evil Yanks holding you back. Yet you Liverpool fans seemingly believe so.
I'm not saying that you cannot get back into the top 4, but I suspect that you'll find it a lot harder than you believe it will be.
So I keep reading. However, with the greatest respect, how would you know? You aren't speaking with the benefit of experience.
The top-4 isn't some kind of holy grail to Liverpool. We've finished third more often than fourth in the past decade. And two years ago, we finished second with a points total that would have won the league last season.
So I don't expect it to be easy but who knows? It might be. It has been before.
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And two years ago, we finished second with a points total that would have won the league last season.
With a midfield three that was the envy of pretty much every team in the world.
Now you can't put together a midfield three that's the envy of Newcastle or Fulham.
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Redman, so you're better than us. So what? Take Downing and f*ck off.
Direct enough?
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Top 4 2011/12 and for the foreseeable
ManU
ManC
Arsenal ( Wenger will spend big this window)
Chelsea
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And....?
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And two years ago, we finished second with a points total that would have won the league last season.
With a midfield three that was the envy of pretty much every team in the world.
Now you can't put together a midfield three that's the envy of Newcastle.
Thankfully, football is played on grass and not paper. We should wait until this midfield has actually played together before making comparisons.
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Redman, so you're better than us.
That wasn't the point I was making.
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Redman, genuine questions:
How's the "Scouse Not English" thing going? Do The Spirit of Shankly still push this astonishing piece of cultural revisionism? What do you think was the motivation behind starting up such a group/campaign?
If I thought it was a genuine question, I'd happily indulge you.
Genuine questions, I assure you. No worries, though.
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why would we accept our current position outside the top-4 now that regime has gone?
Because there is no natural gravity force that pulls Liverpool to the top unless there is some evil Yanks holding you back. Yet you Liverpool fans seemingly believe so.
I'm not saying that you cannot get back into the top 4, but I suspect that you'll find it a lot harder than you believe it will be.
So I keep reading. However, with the greatest respect, how would you know? You aren't speaking with the benefit of experience.
The top-4 isn't some kind of holy grail to Liverpool. We've finished third more often than fourth in the past decade. And two years ago, we finished second with a points total that would have won the league last season.
So I don't expect it to be easy but who knows? It might be. It has been before.
Because there is a natural force of gravity that pulls you to the top. ::)
You have got rid of two of the worst owners in PL and a manager, who despite a decent record, didn't understand the club, and have replaced them with a seemingly decent owner willing to invest and a manager with legendary status. So I understand there's a great reason for hope and optimism.
But I don't understand the need for arrogance.
Three seasons ago you were close to winning the league (and probably deserved to), but the spine of that team (except Reina) is either gone (Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Arbeloa) or deteriorating (Carragher, Gerrard). The reality is that despite of being in the top four most of the last decade, you've missed out two seasons in a row. You're in danger of making it a habit.
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When did this become the discuss Liverpool thread?
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When did this become the discuss Liverpool thread?
Yeah. It's getting a bit tedious now. All this over a failed bid.
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Agreed, I couldn't give a shit about them, which probably shows how much they've fallen as you used to hate them with a passion.
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Fans of other teams are welcome here as long as they behave themselves, but please remember this is a Villa site. There are plenty of Liverpool forums to discuss all things Scouse on.
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Redman, genuine questions:
How's the "Scouse Not English" thing going? Do The Spirit of Shankly still push this astonishing piece of cultural revisionism? What do you think was the motivation behind starting up such a group/campaign?
If I thought it was a genuine question, I'd happily indulge you.
Genuine questions, I assure you. No worries, though.
Okay, fair enough. I just wasn't sure what to make of the "astonishing piece of cultural revisionism" barb.
I'm not from the city of Liverpool so I don't claim to know the politics inside-out and unlike yourself, I'm no historian.
But I don't think it's difficult to understand why this generation of scousers, (and especially Liverpool supporters) might feel like outsiders in their own country. Liverpool is possibly the most socialist of English cities and built in Shankly's image, Liverpool is a socialist club at heart.
So although Liverpool wasn't the only city to suffer at the hands of Thatcher's government and the right-wing media, it was arguably the city most politically and ideologically opposed to how it suffered.
I also think scousers are culturally a bit different. The ubiquity of the stereotype is testament to that. But it's a badge they wear with pride. They don't identify strongly with the rest of the country and they are perfectly happy to continue looking after themselves and each other.
As for the Spirit of Shankly, "Scouse not English" was never part of the agenda. SoS was formed specifically to get rid of Hicks and Gillett, hold the new owners accountable and work towards fan ownership.
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Fans of other teams are welcome here as long as they behave themselves, but please remember this is a Villa site. There are plenty of Liverpool forums to discuss all things Scouse on.
I better apologise for my last post then. Point taken.
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But I don't understand the need for arrogance.
Neither do I. Nor do I understand the need to mistake self-belief for arrogance.
Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
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Redman, genuine questions:
How's the "Scouse Not English" thing going? Do The Spirit of Shankly still push this astonishing piece of cultural revisionism? What do you think was the motivation behind starting up such a group/campaign?
If I thought it was a genuine question, I'd happily indulge you.
Genuine questions, I assure you. No worries, though.
Okay, fair enough. I just wasn't sure what to make of the "astonishing piece of cultural revisionism" barb.
I'm not from the city of Liverpool so I don't claim to know the politics inside-out and unlike yourself, I'm no historian.
But I don't think it's difficult to understand why this generation of scousers, (and especially Liverpool supporters) might feel like outsiders in their own country. Liverpool is possibly the most socialist of English cities and built in Shankly's image, Liverpool is a socialist club at heart.
So although Liverpool wasn't the only city to suffer at the hands of Thatcher's government and the right-wing media, it was arguably the city most politically and ideologically opposed to how it suffered.
I also think scousers are culturally a bit different. The ubiquity of the stereotype is testament to that. But it's a badge they wear with pride. They don't identify strongly with the rest of the country and they are perfectly happy to continue looking after themselves and each other.
As for the Spirit of Shankly, "Scouse not English" was never part of the agenda. SoS was formed specifically to get rid of Hicks and Gillett, hold the new owners accountable and work towards fan ownership.
Thanks for that, Redman.
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I'm not from the city of Liverpool
(http://howtobecomeaparamedic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/shock.jpg)
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I'm not from the city of Liverpool
(http://howtobecomeaparamedic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/shock.jpg)
Brummie Red ??
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Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
No, I think it's more that we have previously done much more than just 'crack the top four' within living memory, indeed we finished second when proper football was invented by Sky, and most of us can still remember us winning the Big Cup.
We don't wish failure on Liverpool, we just know that, whatever you think, you're with us now, the onlookers to the Money Cup. You can spend your money on your Hendersons and your Carrolls, but it will only get you fifth at best, and you know it. Rejoice, we're competing for the Europa League, hoorah.
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Brummie Red ??
Nah, I'm from Cheshire. Scouse family though. I was born in Trafford though, of all places.
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Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
We don't wish failure on Liverpool, we just know that, whatever you think, you're with us now, the onlookers to the Money Cup. You can spend your money on your Hendersons and your Carrolls, but it will only get you fifth at best, and you know it. Rejoice, we're competing for the Europa League, hoorah.
You don't know any such thing.
I might be your belief but it sure isn't knowledge.
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But I don't understand the need for arrogance.
Neither do I. Nor do I understand the need to mistake self-belief for arrogance.
Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
No. Maybe arrogance isn't the right word, but you seem to believe that you'll get into the top four because of recent history. I don't think it works that way.
To the second question: No. It's because I believe the top four to be a self-preserving society. Man City managed to muscle in because of tremendous investment. Arsenal may be in danger of dropping out next season. In that case there is a spot that you or Spurs can grab. But honestly I believe Wenger is too experienced to let that happen. But good luck.
(To the mods: I'll stop posting about Liverpool now. Sorry for playing my part in the diversion.)
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Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
We don't wish failure on Liverpool, we just know that, whatever you think, you're with us now, the onlookers to the Money Cup. You can spend your money on your Hendersons and your Carrolls, but it will only get you fifth at best, and you know it. Rejoice, we're competing for the Europa League, hoorah.
You don't know any such thing.
I might be your belief but it sure isn't knowledge.
No, but deep down you know it.
You are clinging onto King Kenny and your owners spending daft cash on average players as proof that you are going to crack the CL places. You might be right, but there's only Arsenal's place up for grabs and you're not the only team fighting for it despite your arrogance.
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But I don't understand the need for arrogance.
Neither do I. Nor do I understand the need to mistake self-belief for arrogance.
Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
No. Maybe arrogance isn't the right word, but you seem to believe that you'll get into the top four because of recent history. I don't think it works that way.
To the second question: No. It's because I believe the top four to be a self-preserving society. Man City managed to muscle in because of tremendous investment. Arsenal may be in danger of dropping out next season. In that case there is a spot that you or Spurs can grab. But honestly I believe Wenger is too experienced to let that happen. But good luck.
(To the mods: I'll stop posting about Liverpool now. Sorry for playing my part in the diversion.)
I'm not even sure there is an established top-4 any more.
I look at Liverpool and see a club on an upwards trajectory without the distraction of Europe.
I look at City and see a club also on-the-up but not as much as it should be. Plus first time in CL.
I look at Arsenal and see a team starting to fade, with want-away players and disillusioned fans.
I look at Spurs and see a club standing still (at least for now).
And I look at Chelsea and see a club under new management and a team with an aging spine.
It looks wide open from my vantage point.
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Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
We don't wish failure on Liverpool, we just know that, whatever you think, you're with us now, the onlookers to the Money Cup. You can spend your money on your Hendersons and your Carrolls, but it will only get you fifth at best, and you know it. Rejoice, we're competing for the Europa League, hoorah.
You don't know any such thing.
I might be your belief but it sure isn't knowledge.
No, but deep down you know it.
You are clinging onto King Kenny and your owners spending daft cash on average players as proof that you are going to crack the CL places. You might be right, but there's only Arsenal's place up for grabs and you're not the only team fighting for it despite your arrogance.
With that opening line, you're on thin ice accusing anybody of arrogance.
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I have been back in Brum for the last month or so, and all the Villa fans I have spoken to could not give a flying fuck whether he goes or not.
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I have been back in Brum for the last month or so, and all the Villa fans I have spoken to could not give a flying fuck whether he goes or not.
I'm kind of hoping it does go through, at around £20m, if only to marvel at Liverpool spending the best part of £85m on Carroll, Henderson, Downing and Adam.
How much would that lot have cost 12 months ago? £20-25m?
King Kenny's spending like John Gregory on crack.
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I hope he goes now. If he stays, it will just feel like Barry's last season with us when I could never really get behind him knowing that he wanted away and was inevitably going to leave. I shall just feel the same way about Downing. In addition, I am not that fussed about him as a player. For me, he joins the pantheon of players we have had, or do have, that everyone else seems to rate highly bar me - Coker, Cuellar and Luke Young to name but three...
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I hope he goes now. If he stays, it will just feel like Barry's last season with us when I could never really get behind him knowing that he wanted away and was inevitably going to leave. I shall just feel the same way about Downing. In addition, I am not that fussed about him as a player. For me, he joins the pantheon of players we have had, or do have, that everyone else seems to rate highly bar me - Coker, Cuellar and Luke Young to name but three...
Agree with you on the Downing front and the similarity to the Barry saga...he'll just leave next year instead! Problem is, Barry was pretty much a thorough professional and longstanding Villa player and continued to do his stuff on the pitch...I can't see Downing doing that. He has used England games to put himself in the shop window...the few games he's had for the national team he's been a revelation; all of a sudden he's brilliant...whereas his week by week contribution is way below what it should be for a senior professional. He's had one half decent season and suddenly he's off. Let him go and bring in a good pro, not a spineless wuss with great potential who goes hiding for 80% of the game.
Can't agree with you about the other 3 named...they'd be in my starting line-ups every time...in their proper positions. They're pro's who give their best, Downing simply doesn't.
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Breaking News SSN. Asrenal have made contact......Which is nice
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Breaking News SSN. Asrenal have made contact......Which is nice
if downing has a brain he will go work with arse all day long, they will pay the right price aswel rather that piss around like the bin dippers do
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Breaking News SSN. Asrenal have made contact......Which is nice
He will fit in well there. All tippy tappy football, no tackling either, bags of promise but often no end product....it will jack the Arse fans off too
I would take a gamble on Bendtner. Think there is a player in there somewhere and he urgently needs a change of scene and club. Cash plus him would do nicely...
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Breaking News SSN. Asrenal have made contact......Which is nice
if downing has a brain he will go work with arse all day long, they will pay the right price aswel rather that piss around like the bin dippers do
Will they? Liverpool have spent big money already this year, whereas Arsenal have always seemed to avoid paying massive fees for players.
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Breaking News SSN. Asrenal have made contact......Which is nice
can i really see Wenger spending £20 million on Downing , Wenger will be having Francis Jeffers nightmares right now ...
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I smells a bidding war!
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well If downing goes Arsenal maybe Nzogbia will go Liverpool...
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But I don't understand the need for arrogance.
Neither do I. Nor do I understand the need to mistake self-belief for arrogance.
Is it because Villa failed to crack the top 4 that you project that failure on to other clubs who aspire to do the same?
No. Maybe arrogance isn't the right word, but you seem to believe that you'll get into the top four because of recent history. I don't think it works that way.
To the second question: No. It's because I believe the top four to be a self-preserving society. Man City managed to muscle in because of tremendous investment. Arsenal may be in danger of dropping out next season. In that case there is a spot that you or Spurs can grab. But honestly I believe Wenger is too experienced to let that happen. But good luck.
(To the mods: I'll stop posting about Liverpool now. Sorry for playing my part in the diversion.)
I'm not even sure there is an established top-4 any more.
I look at Liverpool and see a club on an upwards trajectory without the distraction of Europe.
I look at City and see a club also on-the-up but not as much as it should be. Plus first time in CL.
I look at Arsenal and see a team starting to fade, with want-away players and disillusioned fans.
I look at Spurs and see a club standing still (at least for now).
And I look at Chelsea and see a club under new management and a team with an aging spine.
It looks wide open from my vantage point.
To me Liverpool have paid over the odds for 2 English players which has hidden the fact they like us and spurs have lost one of there best players each year. (alonso,mascherano,torres)
Spurs are at a crossroads with Modric possibly leaving, Which could then result in Bale leaving.
Villa are in limbo at the moment, but with a more organised defence, could be very strong as long as we replace Downing eg Nzogbia.
I honestly think the top 4 will be the top 4 again and that Spurs, Villa, Liverpool, Everton and maybe Sunderland all battling for 5th onwards.
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well If downing goes Arsenal maybe Nzogbia will go Liverpool...
If and I hope we are intereted in NZogbia we must be smart and not sell Downing until we have got him or a suitable replacement.
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well If downing goes Arsenal maybe Nzogbia will go Liverpool...
My thinking too Juan. Bugger!
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well If downing goes Arsenal maybe Nzogbia will go Liverpool...
If and I hope we are intereted in NZogbia we must be smart and not sell Downing until we have got him or a suitable replacement.
Perhaps the combination of Albrighton and Ireland is the replacement...sorry if that seems negative. But I can't help thinking that purse strings will be bloody tight! As a Villa fan I have got used to expecting the worst so that when something better actally happens I can feel more optimistic. I'm sure there's a technical term for this....
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Wouldn't be surprised if the Arsenal story was a load of rubbish. Didn't the same rumour appear when Liverpool were in for Barry?
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Wouldn't be surprised if the Arsenal story was a load of rubbish. Didn't the same rumour appear when Liverpool were in for Barry?
Same here. Arsenal have never, ever spent anywhere near £18m on a player and they've bought much better players than Downing.
Hopefully this is someone very clever at the club engineering an imaginary auction by feeding stupid journalists duff info.
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According to OptaJoe, Downing has provided eight premier league assists since August 2009. Funny, I though it would have been more than that (I know that stats like that don't paint the whole picture). One fewer than Walcott, it says here.
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I think Wenger has been frightened to spend big on English players since he got his fingers burnt with Francis Jeffers.
I doubt he'd want Downing, but there is pressure on him to start spending money rather than bringing players through.
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It's getting stupid - painful in fact and disruptive.
AM - sell the bloke to the highest bidder next week and get N'Zogbia in before someone else does.
Wish Downing would hand a transfer request in ..... we'd all know where we were.
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Wouldn't be surprised if Arsenal were to offer player(s) in exchange (Arshavin perhaps?) rather than a straight cash deal. With their new owner though, you never know.
Haven't they got enough bloody non-tackling fairies on their cake already though, what do they want another one for?
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Bit of Tweeing coming from Liverpool Echo that Liverpool making statement re. The enigmatic Mr Downing shortly .
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Wouldn't be surprised if the Arsenal story was a load of rubbish. Didn't the same rumour appear when Liverpool were in for Barry?
Same here. Arsenal have never, ever spent anywhere near £18m on a player and they've bought much better players than Downing.
Hopefully this is someone very clever at the club engineering an imaginary auction by feeding stupid journalists duff info.
didnt ashavin cost 20?
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Wouldn't be surprised if the Arsenal story was a load of rubbish. Didn't the same rumour appear when Liverpool were in for Barry?
Same here. Arsenal have never, ever spent anywhere near £18m on a player and they've bought much better players than Downing.
Hopefully this is someone very clever at the club engineering an imaginary auction by feeding stupid journalists duff info.
didnt ashavin cost 20?
£15m - he's their record transfer and that was on the back of a European Championships where Arshavin had ran the show for Russia. Downing's nowhere near the player Arshavin was at that point in time.
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Wouldn't be surprised if the Arsenal story was a load of rubbish. Didn't the same rumour appear when Liverpool were in for Barry?
Same here. Arsenal have never, ever spent anywhere near £18m on a player and they've bought much better players than Downing.
Hopefully this is someone very clever at the club engineering an imaginary auction by feeding stupid journalists duff info.
didnt ashavin cost 20?
£15m - he's their record transfer and that was on the back of a European Championships where Arshavin had ran the show for Russia. Downing's nowhere near the player Arshavin was at that point in time.
if he cost 15 he certainly isnt there record! i think he must have been 15 with add ons if hes there record, officially jose antonio reyes cost 17.5 million so he's there record and dare i say it at the time not as good as downing. still 20 million is possible for them to throw in a player as a make weight 15 + bentner or eboue or almunia or ramsey theres a few good youths there aswel so dont rule anything out, especially as ashavin, nasri, fabregas, bentner, almunia, eboue all likely to leave and clichy already gone to city they are going to tear the squad up and try again downing and gerviniho either side of a 4 5 1 would suit there playing style
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if he cost 15 he certainly isnt there record! i think he must have been 15 with add ons if hes there record, officially jose antonio reyes cost 17.5 million so he's there record and dare i say it at the time not as good as downing. still 20 million is possible for them to throw in a player as a make weight 15 + bentner or eboue or almunia or ramsey theres a few good youths there aswel so dont rule anything out, especially as ashavin, nasri, fabregas, bentner, almunia, eboue all likely to leave and clichy already gone to city they are going to tear the squad up and try again downing and gerviniho either side of a 4 5 1 would suit there playing style
Reyes was £8m or £10.5m (depending on who's report you belive) plus add ons. Recent reports say that Wiltord cost them more (£13m) and was their transfer record until they signed Arshavin.
See here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/4438430/Arsenal-wait-for-Andrei-Arshavin-transfer-to-be-ratified-by-Premier-League.html
And here http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-could-smash-transfer-record-for-arshavin-1365851.html
I still doubt they'll spend that much on Downing. Only Liverpool and Man City throw silly money around.
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According to OptaJoe, Downing has provided eight premier league assists since August 2009. Funny, I though it would have been more than that (I know that stats like that don't paint the whole picture). One fewer than Walcott, it says here.
I think I saw on SSN that Downing won 75% of his tackles last season. So that would be 75% of 4.
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According to OptaJoe, Downing has provided eight premier league assists since August 2009. Funny, I though it would have been more than that (I know that stats like that don't paint the whole picture). One fewer than Walcott, it says here.
I think I saw on SSN that Downing won 75% of his tackles last season. So that would be 75% of 4.
75% of 4-kall more like.
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According to OptaJoe, Downing has provided eight premier league assists since August 2009. Funny, I though it would have been more than that (I know that stats like that don't paint the whole picture). One fewer than Walcott, it says here.
I think I saw on SSN that Downing won 75% of his tackles last season. So that would be 75% of 4.
75% of 4-kall more like.
Tidy.
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if he cost 15 he certainly isnt there record! i think he must have been 15 with add ons if hes there record, officially jose antonio reyes cost 17.5 million so he's there record and dare i say it at the time not as good as downing. still 20 million is possible for them to throw in a player as a make weight 15 + bentner or eboue or almunia or ramsey theres a few good youths there aswel so dont rule anything out, especially as ashavin, nasri, fabregas, bentner, almunia, eboue all likely to leave and clichy already gone to city they are going to tear the squad up and try again downing and gerviniho either side of a 4 5 1 would suit there playing style
Reyes was £8m or £10.5m (depending on who's report you belive) plus add ons. Recent reports say that Wiltord cost them more (£13m) and was their transfer record until they signed Arshavin.
See here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/4438430/Arsenal-wait-for-Andrei-Arshavin-transfer-to-be-ratified-by-Premier-League.html
And here http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-could-smash-transfer-record-for-arshavin-1365851.html
I still doubt they'll spend that much on Downing. Only Liverpool and Man City throw silly money around.
After a bit of digging it was 10.5 + 7 in add ons. Im guessing as he was shit it was only the 10.5
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Dug out some quotes from Stewart Downing.
From this:
Yes, I am happy here. There is speculation that players are going to clubs all the time but I am happy here. Since the first day I came here I have enjoyed every minute
A lot of faith went into me when Martin paid a lot of money for me when I was injured
On a personal note I want to do well because the club put a lot of faith in me
It's a family club. You feel very welcome and there's a great environment. I love the fact the team has great ambition for the future
I'm looking forward to next season already. We're looking to really progress
I am thoroughly enjoying my time at Villa. Even though it's been a frustrating season, I see the bigger picture and the ambition of the club
It’s part and parcel of being a player and doing well. Ever since I was young I’ve read stories saying ‘you’re going here, you’re going there.' Obviously if you have a good season you get linked, but I’m happy here
There are terrific players here. I’m confident, despite this season, that we’re going in the right direction and, if we get the right players in, then I’m happy
The important thing in football is if you’re happy, then why change it. I know it’s been a disappointing season but I can see the bigger picture
To this
My agent had a recent meeting with our chief executive. However, I am 26, and at a major crossroads in my career, so I won't be committing to a new deal at the moment
I want to keep playing and enjoying my football. When I was injured that made me realise what it can be like to be out for such a long time. It hurt. The most important thing is to play football, but I do want to play in the Champions League at some point
With England as well, all the top players play in good teams. I'm no different
You just want the best for your career. You want to finish with medals at the end of it so, if it's a step up with Villa or with someone else, then I'm ready for it
You watch teams in the Champions League and it makes you wish you were there. You sit at home and watch it, hear the music come on, you see the teams and you think 'that's where you want to be.
It's the pinnacle. It's the best. It's the best standard with the best players. It would be nice to taste that one day
My agent had a meeting with the club - just one meeting - and he just felt it was the right time not to sign my contract
Will I be at Villa next season? I'm not sure
You hope they do (understand) but normal fans will want you to stay at their club for the rest of your life. If you do leave there's obviously a bit of bitterness there
You hope they do understand because, it's like any job, if there's a better job on hand, or a better level to do it, then people do it
It's up to their fans and their opinions of me. If they want to be loud and clear with what they think of me, then that's fine
:-\
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Traitor's a bit strong imo, I'm disappointed but not surprised that he see Liverpool having a better chance of giving him CL football.
However they are no where near even qualifying (again imo) and the players that they have brought don't seem the type to get them into the top four, so I have my doubts he will ever get his wish.
If Villa can get around 20m and ONLY if he puts in a transfer request then would I sell if it were me but then it's not my money. RL, Mcleish might feel what's the point in waiting 12 months just to hear the constant bleating of his agent and then only get half of what he is worth today.
TBH I also think that if he stays he will get plenty of shit from the VP faithful that it wouldn't do anyone any favour's, better that he goes now.
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Agree with you Jim. I would also add the guy acted as a big fairy pulling out of any 50-50 tackle while he wanted to play for us,what would he be like if he was playing while his heart is not in it?
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Not quite the Judas Barry was. I can understand Downing leaving because of his International prospects and also mostly because of how poor we were last season, and maybe he sees the signing of McCleish as a lack of ambition. Barry had none of those factors, as we'd had a decent few seasons and he'd already secured a place in the England team.
Still, it's a shame - but I think "traitor" is a bit of a strong word.
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We will have got £40m for 2 players who divided opinion amongst the fans. A signicent number thought Ash was a diving over rated twat and I would personally view Downings increase in value from £12m to £20m as unturndownable.good business all round I'd say.
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You all carry on as if Premiership football were a gentlemen's club or an officers' mess, where codes of behaviour and ethics and loyalty and "doing the right thing" were what what mattered, way above such mundane things as a man's income or monetary value in a transfer market. This Division is a mad-house where incredibly lucky young men can attract offers of wealth beyond the realms of Croesus. And all this so that the games that they play, both on and off the pitch, can be watched on TV by a world-wide audience who are lured by their celebrity, largely generated by the media coverage that their wealth attracts.
I have said before - just accept that your job is that of an extra on a film set i.e. to provide the crowd noise and the passion. And you have to pay for the privilege of doing it.
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Well said Alan, you might as well start a thread like this for any premier league player you care to mention. I'm amazed anyone is in the slightest bit surprised and even bothers to comment about it any more!
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Downing was poor imo in his first season with us, but we stuck by him; he was arguably best of a bad bunch last season AND he broke back into the England team, while with AV, where he played the best I've ever seen him play - putting himself in the shop window?
As my old man used to say "would you go into the trenches with him?" NO!
Downing always has been and always will be a player with fantastic potential never quite realised because of his own attitude and lack of determination to really want to win, NOT because of the team he plays for. I just think he will ALWAYS be a bit disappointing, whoever he plays for.
Sell him, and if we get 20 miilion for him so much the better!
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He just went about things the wrong way he should have not said anything about wanting to leave but because he as said he wants to leave after one good season I can see why we are all upset about him leaving.
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And well said Frank too - I sense a coming together of 'old gits' on this one with Alan. Things aren't what they used to be....!
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If he wants out then he can go at the right price. As long as reinvest the dough I can live with that.
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Downing pledges to stay at Villa (http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/04/02/stewart-downing-pledges-to-stay-at-aston-villa-97319-28445173/)
::)
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I've never thought of Downing as the kind of character who would act any differently to be honest so I'm not disappointed, or at least no more than usual. You hope for better but it's a fool's hope.
But, he can easily be replaced so I'm really struggling to give a fuck.
Just get the right deal for us and REPLACE HIM BEFORE WE SELL HIM!
As for traitors. There are few players who have any kind of honour any more. It's easier to think of players as a commodity now. They come and go and you buy and sell as you need. You get more attached to the ones you produce yourself but otherwise it's not at all how it used to be.
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It's not that he want's a move to a club that can give him CL football, that to an extent is understandable. To pledge yourself in one breath to your current club is fine but to then openly come out and say pretty much the exact opposite in the next is not.
It would be nice to think he read the Paul Scholes article yesterday and felt an uncomfortable rush of blood to his face doing so.
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Loyalty is a two way street though, isn't it?
There were were some (admittedly a minority) who were advocating getting rid of Downing as early as last summer -after just over half a season post injury.
If Ireland does well this season and gets a big move next summer (big if, granted) I'm sure the L word will be repeated and there will be plenty of outrage. Despite plenty hoping Newcastle had taken him off our hands for good this year.
I never thought Downing was going to be here for the bulk of his career. To be honest, if he was, I'd take that to mean that our progress had stalled. Good player, but far from irreplaceable. It's a pretty big leap from being barely good enough to be in the Villa starting XI last season to expecting/ almost demanding CL football little over 12 months later.
It's just the thought of 3 of our better players departing in less than a year. It could affect us both in terms of the players we can attract and the motivation of some of our better players left behind. Did Ash think the writing was on the wall when we sold Milner last year (after selling Barry the year previous)? Will Bent think the same?
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It would be nice to think he read the Paul Scholes article yesterday and felt an uncomfortable rush of blood to his face doing so.
The sad truth of modern football is that even if he did he'd then have got into his Ferrari and forgot all about it.
I've now come to the conclusion that I want him gone. Disloyal and trying to engineer a move, after we let him get over his injury, plus we're likely to get more than he's really worth. And we've got Albrighton who seems to be shaping up to be a better player.
Fuck him.
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I'll actually be disappointed if he stays. Not a player I rated at all pre-Villa - just don't think he's that special.
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Not quite the Judas Barry was. I can understand Downing leaving because of his International prospects and also mostly because of how poor we were last season, and maybe he sees the signing of McCleish as a lack of ambition. Barry had none of those factors, as we'd had a decent few seasons and he'd already secured a place in the England team.
Still, it's a shame - but I think "traitor" is a bit of a strong word.
Playing for Aston Villa has never stopped players playing for england , in fact capello was always down VP . it seems to be our downfall when these players get picked , i think we have lost all our players since they have been picked for England , other than Bent ... If you play well for VILLA , you actually get noticed by England , probbaly because you are playing week in , week out , instead of sitting on somebodys bench ........
p.s Havent we got rid of the tosser yet
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I'll actually be disappointed if he stays. Not a player I rated at all pre-Villa - just don't think he's that special.
Me neither. I do think he's shown to be better than I thought last season, but still far from irreplacable.
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It would be nice to think he read the Paul Scholes article yesterday and felt an uncomfortable rush of blood to his face doing so.
The sad truth of modern football is that even if he did he'd then have got into his Ferrari and forgot all about it.
I've now come to the conclusion that I want him gone. Disloyal and trying to engineer a move, after we let him get over his injury, plus we're likely to get more than he's really worth. And we've got Albrighton who seems to be shaping up to be a better player.
Fuck him.
That's just the reaction his agent wants.
He's had his head turned by thought of more money and a better chance of winning things at a bigger club. It would have been nice if he'd have been strong enough to resist it but it's the norm for the world we live in. It's not just a football thing.
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LIVERPOOL FC face competition from Arsenal to secure the capture of Stewart Downing from Aston Villa – but remain favourites to land the England winger.
Kenny Dalglish has identified the 26-year-old as one of his top summer targets, and last week had a formal £15m bid rejected by the Midlands club, as he looked to follow up the signings of midfielders Jordan Henderson and Charlie Adam.
But with Arsenal likely to lose at least one of creative duo Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri in the coming weeks, Gunners boss Arsene Wenger is also keen to bring the former Middlesbrough man to the Emirates.
They are, however, yet to submit an official offer, despite reports to the contrary.
New Villa boss Alex McLeish insisted on Friday that he has no plans to sell Downing in this transfer window.
The Scot has already seen key figures Brad Friedel and Ashley Young depart this summer, and would be loath to part company with the club’s current player of the season
Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/07/11/liverpool-fc-lead-chase-with-arsenal-to-secure-stewart-downing-from-aston-villa-100252-29030289/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom#ixzz1RmqTrmgg
I posted this , as I like the commenets at the bottom .
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heres one
Please don't sign this fella,going to be a big mistake.Done nothing for Boro or Villa,had 27 caps and looked useless.
20 million and a sell on value of what for a 31 year old? Not alot.
Got to be better out there,just got to be.Don't ruin our summer buying this guy.
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Isn't Downing's agent that oil slick on legs Willie Mckay?
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Isn't Downing's agent that oil slick on legs Willie Mckay?
Not sure, but whoever it is, he'll be minted if he keeps getting itchy feet like this.
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If the little scrote wants to go why doesn't he have the balls to stick a transfer request in? Worst of the worst regarding today's footballer, wants his Victoria Sponge and wants to eat it.
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Isn't Downing's agent that oil slick on legs Willie Mckay?
Not sure of the name but I have read that he has the same agent as Gerrard and Carragher.
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Isn't Downing's agent that oil slick on legs Willie Mckay?
Not sure of the name but I have read that he has the same agent as Gerrard and Carragher.
Well, isn't that surprising!
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Isn't Downing's agent that oil slick on legs Willie Mckay?
Not sure of the name but I have read that he has the same agent as Gerrard and Carragher.
Well, isn't that surprising!
It all makes sense now. It was comments from Carragher that first started the rumour that Downing had been tapped up..
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Just checked, Struan Marshall is his name.
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I thought his agent was called Cockhead McShitdick. Maybe that was Barry's. It would be nice to know one day what the players rather than the agents thought
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It would be nice to think he read the Paul Scholes article yesterday and felt an uncomfortable rush of blood to his face doing so.
The sad truth of modern football is that even if he did he'd then have got into his Ferrari and forgot all about it.
I've now come to the conclusion that I want him gone. Disloyal and trying to engineer a move, after we let him get over his injury, plus we're likely to get more than he's really worth. And we've got Albrighton who seems to be shaping up to be a better player.
Fuck him.
That's just the reaction his agent wants.
He's had his head turned by thought of more money and a better chance of winning things at a bigger club. It would have been nice if he'd have been strong enough to resist it but it's the norm for the world we live in. It's not just a football thing.
That implies that anybody that has any say in the matter whatsoever cares a fig about our reaction and it is this which makes so many of us share John's opinion on this sordid episode.
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Players hide behind their agents all the time. They, the players, really are just without any thought to fans. To them it's a living. The fact is, we idolise them to varying degrees and feel silly when reminded it's one way - hence the reaction.
I don't mean that we have pictures on our walls like adolescent spotty oiks by the way. More a heightened respect for something they can do that we cannot and a blind faith relationship with the shirt they wear.
To use the footballing parlance, all fans want some respect and "I'm no different". Problem is that it is never going to happen so we might as well get used to it I guess. A bit like the fact that the premier league is un-winnable to all but 3 teams.
As for Downing, a bit like Nigel Reo Coker - good player, never a great player and therefore can't really get myself motivated behind the bashing.
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As for Downing, a bit like Nigel Reo Coker - good player, never a great player and therefore can't really get myself motivated behind the bashing.
Jeez, no way - different gravy Rigadon.
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As for Downing, a bit like Nigel Reo Coker - good player, never a great player and therefore can't really get myself motivated behind the bashing.
Jeez, no way - different gravy Rigadon.
Downing is a great then?
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I like NRC in a defensive mid role,l but Downing is a game changer - he can put the ball into dangerous positions - he can get past players, and he's contributes with goals too.
No great ( Downing) but 'greater' than NRC.
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I like NRC in a defensive mid role,l but Downing is a game changer - he can put the ball into dangerous positions - he can get past players, and he's contributes with goals too.
No great ( Downing) but 'greater' than NRC.
I just don't think we'll miss either that much and the only problem I see with this is the old selling club perception thing rearing it's ugly head yet again. Truth be told I want to see a new look Villa next season so they can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned! But the again I've got a banging headache and have been reading about Mr Murdoch Sir and our spineless politicians so I'm not in the best of moods!
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I'd rather he fucked off too really, but am not getting vibes from the club that AM is getting a decent enough transfer kitty to build and enhance the team.
I may be wrong, but the Young cash has already been spent on Darren Bent, this seems to be the way we are, a selling club in reality.
Funds will be available, but Young isn't going to be replaced per se.
Parker and N'Zogbia in - Young and Downing out, that's looking a half decent bet.
Net spend there would be negative to the tune of c £ 16 mill plus.
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As for Downing, a bit like Nigel Reo Coker - good player, never a great player and therefore can't really get myself motivated behind the bashing.
They are similar in that the both know how to play to their strengths, Downing's being his great ability to run up the field with the ball. He can turn defence into attack in seconds. That we would really miss. As for the rest of his game, nothing really we would miss. He flatters to deceive as I'm sure Liverpool would soon find out.
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Agreed, Mark and (to a degree) Tim. Downing is solid, tidy and slightly above average at the things he's asked to do. Reo Coker just average. Both were a slightly less shite than other players last season.
Nzogbia and Parker would be a slight upgrade on both.
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I thought SSN and the Scouse journos said Downing was going to sign for 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' today? Strange I haven't seen anything yet.
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For good or for ill I think we are going to drag our heels over Downing.
Indeed if the stories in the Meaning Evil are true and we are not after N'Zogbia I'd guess that is because we are intent upon keeping him.
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For good or for ill I think we are going to drag our heels over Downing.
Indeed if the stories in the Meaning Evil are true and we are not after N'Zogbia I'd guess that is because we are intent upon keeping him.
I'd hope so, as N'Zogbia is probably the only adequate replacement avaliable we could realistically get.
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For good or for ill I think we are going to drag our heels over Downing.
Indeed if the stories in the Meaning Evil are true and we are not after N'Zogbia I'd guess that is because we are intent upon keeping him.
I don't know what to believe here .... Wigan want to sell ( apparently), AM wanted N'Zogbia at the sty so does rate him highly, but we're not interested in him ??????
What worries me is that we're forced to sell our superstar and N'Zogbia goes elsewhere. leaving us up shit creek again - we do spend a lot of time there !
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I dont doubt we're interested in N'Zogbia. We haven't bid (nobody has apparently) yet but that doesn't mean we're not interested.
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I know he is an ungrateful sod who seemingly wants out but how many of us really wouldnt be the same in his position- Liverpool are are the way up , rich new owners an incredible fan base and a history 2nd to none, add to that the increase in wages and greater chance of success and who would really blame him?
We as villa fans see it differently as this is our club but to downing it is just a job and he has no real long term ties to Aston villa- sad that football is going this way but I can see why he wants to go.
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On nzogbia didn't mcleish take a swipe at him in the press after the blues deal broke down, accusing him of ridiculous demands at the last minute after it had all been seemingly agreed?
Maybe nzogbia is a red herring?
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I'm guessing that the replacement for Ash will be Ireland, hence no N'Zogbia. The club want to keep Downing and play him and Albrighton wide, so no need for another winger there either, as to buy an N'Zogbia would probably mean Marc on the bench and one of the remits of the McLeish era Villa seems to be to get more use out of our accademy.
Should Downing go, which I think will take a silly £20m+ offer, N'Zogbia may then come onto the radar.
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Sometimes eastie, your posts make me want to vomit.
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On nzogbia didn't mcleish take a swipe at him in the press after the blues deal broke down, accusing him of ridiculous demands at the last minute after it had all been seemingly agreed?
Maybe nzogbia is a red herring?
Was it on SSN?
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Sometimes eastie, your posts make me want to vomit.
I know what you mean, Liverpool on the way up FFS.
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"Liverpool are are the way up , rich new owners an incredible fan base and a history 2nd to none, add to that the increase in wages and greater chance of success"
In the unlikely event I ever wrote something like that, which reads as the most mindless Sky punted shite, I would hide underground in a cave, cringing and beating myself senseless only to emerge as some Gollum like creature in a few hundred years, when people would probably still be tutting at me.
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"Liverpool are are the way up , rich new owners an incredible fan base and a history 2nd to none, add to that the increase in wages and greater chance of success"
In the unlikely event I ever wrote something like that, which reads as the most mindless Sky punted shite, I would hide underground in a cave, cringing and beating myself senseless only to emerge as some Gollum like creature in a few hundred years, when people would probably still be tutting at me.
Just needs a Coopers Injury style "Theatre of Dreams" nickname for Anfield, and it'd be complete.
"Tricksssssie Scousssssers my precioussssss".
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To an international player given the option of Aston villa or Liverpool how many honestly do we think would choose villa ?
I have hated Liverpool since being a kid in the 70s but can you really blame him for wanting to go there?
We are fans and villa is our club but to players it's just a job.
Sell him at about £19m and let's get players who want to play for Aston villa .
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"Liverpool are are the way up , rich new owners an incredible fan base and a history 2nd to none, add to that the increase in wages and greater chance of success"
In the unlikely event I ever wrote something like that, which reads as the most mindless Sky punted shite, I would hide underground in a cave, cringing and beating myself senseless only to emerge as some Gollum like creature in a few hundred years, when people would probably still be tutting at me.
Just needs a Coopers Injury style "Theatre of Dreams" nickname for Anfield, and it'd be complete.
"Tricksssssie Scousssssers my precioussssss".
As soon as I see eastie type "that night in Istanbul" I'm going to hunt him down.
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Don't worry maz , the one team in football I hate most is Liverpool, but I'm looking at it from downings angle , not mine.
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Liverpool are are the way up...
and a history 2nd to none...
Well, people said that every year.
Yeah. In Merseyside.
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As soon as I see eastie type "that night in Istanbul" I'm going to hunt him down.
Surely you mean "THAT night in Instanbul"? (See also "THAT night in Barcelona", "THAT Giggs goal at Villa Park" etc.
Eastie should be a commentator for ITV.
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Maybe nzogbia is a red herring?
Nah, Eastie, he's human - Google him.
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To an international player given the option of Aston villa or Liverpool how many honestly do we think would choose villa ?
I have hated Liverpool since being a kid in the 70s but can you really blame him for wanting to go there?
We are fans and villa is our club but to players it's just a job.
Sell him at about £19m and let's get players who want to play for Aston villa .
I suppose people see things differently growing up in different eras but I don't see Liverpool in this way at all. I've always had them down as a team who flattered to deceive on numerous occassions in the league and who once got extremely fortunate when winning a Champions league. As a person who doesn't give a great deal of credit to winning an FA or a league cup because both competitions are treated as 2nd class by so many teams these days, they haven't done a great deal in recent times to be labelled this haven of footballing gods they're being made out to be.
Obviously I've seen what they've done in the past but for me it all depends on what you live through to shape your personal views on the significance of other teams, and I honestly really don't see what the big deal is about Liverpool.
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Jockey, I hear you. Unfortunately it doesnt get engraved on the cup "lucky to win". The stats say "Winner". Second in the league a few seasons back, fairly consistent CL qualifications up until Rafa fcuked it up. Still doesnt make me like them, but thems the facts. I thought it was interesting that De Jong spoke out and said City had now replaced Chelski as most hated club? Sorry, both of these are pretenders to the Manx bastards thone, and they also have to get past Liverpool for me
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I know he is an ungrateful sod who seemingly wants out but how many of us really wouldnt be the same in his position- Liverpool are are the way up , rich new owners an incredible fan base and a history 2nd to none, add to that the increase in wages and greater chance of success and who would really blame him?
We as villa fans see it differently as this is our club but to downing it is just a job and he has no real long term ties to Aston villa- sad that football is going this way but I can see why he wants to go.
Sounds to me like you've been listening too much to Tarby, Lawro and Hansen.
History second to none?! They had a fantastic seventies and eighties when they collected league titles like no one's business. We'll overlook the amount of money they shelled out on players (I can think of a couple of British record transfers lurking in there along with spending sprees and record salary bench marks being set.) If Man City go on to dominate the next twenty years will they then have a history second to none?
"Incredible" fan base? Oh, come on Eastie! What next, The Toon Army are the most loyal fans out there? The Busby Babes were the greatest side ever? You're swallowing up media P.R. nonsense - which is what the average footballer does too(!)
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Liverpool are a bigger club than Aston Villa and they are heading in an opposite direction to us. If I were Downing, I wouldn't think twice about going.
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During my school years most kids supported Liverpool or Leeds and Liverpool ruled in Europe in the 70s as well as in england- I hated the way they killed games and endlessly passed to clemence to bounce the ball roll it out then get it back and bounce it again- thank god for the backpass rule.
Liverpool like man utd have worldwide support and those two clubs are also the most successful English clubs in history- it delights me that they have not won the title since 1990 and have little chance of doing so in the near future, however we are not as likely to be chasing the top 4 as they are and sadly I doubt many top players would choose villa rather than Liverpool.
I am not singing liverpools praises but looking at it from downings view and can understand why he wants to go, besides the undoubted wage rise and signing fee.
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Liverpool won't make the top 4 this year. They have paid a fuck load of money for above average players, not world beaters. Andy Carroll? What has he actually done to justify the hype? Same with Henderson. To fund this spree they sold their best player.
Had they not had a very successful 70's and 80's (incidentally the decades that most journalists remember the best and most pundits played in) they would not be seen as being a bigger club than Villa. You might say that's 'ifs and buts' gone mad, but they haven't won the league in a very, very long time so why do people keep speculating it could their year?
We're back to perception I'm afraid.
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During my school years most kids supported Liverpool or Leeds and Liverpool ruled in Europe in the 70s as well as in england- I hated the way they killed games and endlessly passed to clemence to bounce the ball roll it out then get it back and bounce it again- thank god for the backpass rule.
Liverpool like man utd have worldwide support and those two clubs are also the most successful English clubs in history- it delights me that they have not won the title since 1990 and have little chance of doing so in the near future, however we are not as likely to be chasing the top 4 as they are and sadly I doubt many top players would choose villa rather than Liverpool.
I am not singing liverpools praises but looking at it from downings view and can understand why he wants to go, besides the undoubted wage rise and signing fee.
I totally disagree, Liverpool for the first time in a generation have the right man in charge, for all Man U's and Man City's money i think the big challengers for Chelsea and Man Utd this season will be Liverpool, Dalgliesh knows the club and knows how they tick, by the looks of it at the expense of Arsenal.
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Liverpool will challenge for the title this season.
The title of best team in Liverpool. And they'll probably just about win.
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During my school years most kids supported Liverpool or Leeds and Liverpool ruled in Europe in the 70s as well as in england- I hated the way they killed games and endlessly passed to clemence to bounce the ball roll it out then get it back and bounce it again- thank god for the backpass rule.
Liverpool like man utd have worldwide support and those two clubs are also the most successful English clubs in history- it delights me that they have not won the title since 1990 and have little chance of doing so in the near future, however we are not as likely to be chasing the top 4 as they are and sadly I doubt many top players would choose villa rather than Liverpool.
I am not singing liverpools praises but looking at it from downings view and can understand why he wants to go, besides the undoubted wage rise and signing fee.
I totally disagree, Liverpool for the first time in a generation have the right man in charge, for all Man U's and Man City's money i think the big challengers for Chelsea and Man Utd this season will be Liverpool, Dalgliesh knows the club and knows how they tick, by the looks of it at the expense of Arsenal.
Dalgleish took over at Liverpool and had an excellent run of results working under no pressure following Woy's departure.He then signed a permanent contract and looked like they had an outside chance of qualifying for Europe and then lost the last two games.
The deluded Liverpool fans think they're title challengers this year.Pressures on for KK.I don't think they'll finish above 5th
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During my school years most kids supported Liverpool or Leeds and Liverpool ruled in Europe in the 70s as well as in england- I hated the way they killed games and endlessly passed to clemence to bounce the ball roll it out then get it back and bounce it again- thank god for the backpass rule.
Liverpool like man utd have worldwide support and those two clubs are also the most successful English clubs in history- it delights me that they have not won the title since 1990 and have little chance of doing so in the near future, however we are not as likely to be chasing the top 4 as they are and sadly I doubt many top players would choose villa rather than Liverpool.
I am not singing liverpools praises but looking at it from downings view and can understand why he wants to go, besides the undoubted wage rise and signing fee.
I totally disagree, Liverpool for the first time in a generation have the right man in charge, for all Man U's and Man City's money i think the big challengers for Chelsea and Man Utd this season will be Liverpool, Dalgliesh knows the club and knows how they tick, by the looks of it at the expense of Arsenal.
Dalgleish took over at Liverpool and had an excellent run of results working under no pressure following Woy's departure.He then signed a permanent contract and looked like they had an outside chance of qualifying for Europe and then lost the last two games.
The deluded Liverpool fans think they're title challengers this year.Pressures on for KK.I don't think they'll finish above 5th
I think the last 2 games of last season were weird for a lot of clubs, including Villa, as much as i'm loathed to say i think the red hoard will sweep through the Premeirship this season and be a real problem for the top 2, remember they went on that run without there best player, players and had just sold Torres, now if Dalgliesh works the transfer market the right way and builds his team on top of, they will be the team to keep an eye on IMO.
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Liverpool may challenge for 4th place with arsenal
And spurs but I do not see them challenging for the title .
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I think some Villa fans talk more bollocks about Liverpool than Liverpool fans.
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I think some Villa fans talk more bollocks about Liverpool than Liverpool fans.
But here is the problem. As Rigadon says, it's all a matter of perception and the media has played a huge role in this. According to the media, Leeds United are a huge club, with great tradition and a glorious past. I'm pretty sure many pundits would say they are as big as Villa despite Villa winning loads more than them. We have won as many trophies as Newcastle and Sunderland put together but our media profile would suggest otherwise.
Media perception does not just influence supporters, it clearly influences players too. The cliques within the England squad, the fact that Downing wants to play for Liverpool...it's as though this "pecking order" and mythology is all set in stone and has been so for a million years. It stinks and it does the game a huge disservice.
Moving onto Liverpool. They are signing similar ranking players to what we were signing under Martin O'Neill a couple of years back...yet we were viewed then as outsiders for the top four and they are viewed now as a powerhouse going all out for the title? Strange how media perception works.
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Yes and Dalglish has returned to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
They'll finish this season with what they took from Villa Park last season. Nowt.
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I think some Villa fans talk more bollocks about Liverpool than Liverpool fans.
Don't they just. They couldn't win the league with Alonso and Mascherano in midfield with Torres up front, do people really think they're going to do it with Lucas, Henderson and Carroll in their place?
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Liverpool are a bigger club than Aston Villa and they are heading in an opposite direction to us. If I were Downing, I wouldn't think twice about going.
We will see.
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Not a chance will Liverpool finish ahead of Arsenal. People seriously underestimate Wenger.
Liverpool will do very well to get fourth this year. Adam is a good player and I think Henderson will turn out to be worth the fee (eventually), but right now their squad is nowhere near good enough.
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You've got a point Eastie, you've got a point.
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I think some Villa fans talk more bollocks about Liverpool than Liverpool fans.
Don't they just. They couldn't win the league with Alonso and Mascherano in midfield with Torres up front, do people really think they're going to do it with Lucas, Henderson and Carroll in their place?
And they had Torres before he forgot how to play football.
I can't believe what I'm reading on here at times. Liverpool will do well if they finish any higher than last season. They are no where near the top 4.
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Teams that will finish above Liverpool next season: Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City. Teams that might finish above Liverpool next season: Spurs, us and Everton.
Nothing they have done this year has made me think "i wish we had signed him." I also think once the King Kenny bollocks blows over, he may not end up being "the messiah" they all thought he would be.
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Yes and Dalglish has returned to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
They'll finish this season with what they took from Villa Park last season. Nowt.
They'll come close to an F.A. Cup, but goals from Albrighton, Bannan and Collins will knock them out in the semis.
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Sometimes you have to be realistic when looking at who is or isn't a big club- sadly we have 1 league title and one fa cup win in the last 90 years or so and however much we may not like it we are not looked at in the same way as Liverpool by neutral fans .
We are a big club on a par with everton I would say but have a long way to go to match Liverpool and their vast worldwide support.
100 years ago we were the man utd and Liverpool of the time but sadly those days are long gone.
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Sorry, I appear to to have stumbled onto a Liverpool site by mistake? Could someone point me in the direction of H&V, where I can have a good old natter about Spurs' wagebill?
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Teams that will finish above Liverpool next season: Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City. Teams that might finish above Liverpool next season: Spurs, us and Everton.
Nothing they have done this year has made me think "i wish we had signed him." I also think once the King Kenny bollocks blows over, he may not end up being "the messiah" they all thought he would be.
I don't think we'll be anywhere near the top 6. Looking at the situation as of now, I'd say that the club is set up to kick around in mid-table, with the odd cup run here and there.
I agree with the rest of your post though. The pressure will be on Dalgleish this coming season and it'll be interesting to see how he copes with it. A lot of teams are going to have sussed out the way he sets his teams up now.
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I think some Villa fans talk more bollocks about Liverpool than Liverpool fans.
Indeed, at least Redman has a good excuse.
I think they will reach 4th (if Arsenal have a poor season) or 5th and that is about the limit of what they will manage in the next few years. So more moving sideways rather than forwards or upwards.
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Sometimes you have to be realistic when looking at who is or isn't a big club- sadly we have 1 league title and one fa cup win in the last 90 years or so and however much we may not like it we are not looked at in the same way as Liverpool by neutral fans .
We are a big club on a par with everton I would say but have a long way to go to match Liverpool and their vast worldwide support.
100 years ago we were the man utd and Liverpool of the time but sadly those days are long gone.
Is that all we've won?
Sorry, here comes my lunch again... blllooooooaaaarrrrgghhh!!!!!!
I have to ask eastie, are you taking the piss or what?
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Sometimes you have to be realistic when looking at who is or isn't a big club- sadly we have 1 league title and one fa cup win in the last 90 years or so and however much we may not like it we are not looked at in the same way as Liverpool by neutral fans .
We are a big club on a par with everton I would say but have a long way to go to match Liverpool and their vast worldwide support.
100 years ago we were the man utd and Liverpool of the time but sadly those days are long gone.
The most shocking statement of the day right here. Unbelievable
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As I say as big clubs are ranked we are on a par with everton , we are not as big a club as man utd , arsenal or Liverpool - they are the 3 biggest English clubs in my view - not the best teams but the biggest clubs.
JockY What do you unbelievable about that statement? Yes we have won the European cup and I had the privilege of seeing us win it , Liverpool have done it 5 times and forest twice , I am saying our history over the last 90 yrs we haven't won the sort of trophies to be classed up there with the liverpools and man utds.
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I think eastie has been possessed by the evil retarded spirit of future dead Jim White.
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"12 Jul 2011 14:32:53
Ive beeen told downing is booked into the hilton tomorrow night, medical tomorrow or thursday Jf92"
http://www.liverpool-rumours.co.uk/
They broke the Adam deal before anyone else.
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As I say as big clubs are ranked we are on a par with everton , we are not as big a club as man utd , arsenal or Liverpool - they are the 3 biggest English clubs in my view - not the best teams but the biggest clubs.
Just out of interest, what criteria do you use to judge a 'big club'? Numbers through the turnstiles? History of trophies won? Recent success? Financial clout?
To me 'big club' is a meaningless statement as it means different things to different people. And football is a transient business, so clubs you are classing as 'bigger' now could, for a variety of reasons, be struggling in a year or two and we'd be nicking their best players.
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"12 Jul 2011 14:32:53
Ive beeen told downing is booked into the hilton tomorrow night, medical tomorrow or thursday Jf92"
http://www.liverpool-rumours.co.uk/
They broke the Adam deal before anyone else.
Everybody knew Adam was signing for Liverpool.It was the worst kept secret in football
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Does that mickey mouse town even have a Hilton?
He'd fail the medical anyway. They wont be able to find his spine.
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All of those John, history of trophies, gates, finance , worldwide fan base, Recent success and being up there regularly over a long period of time, Chelsea and man city are rich successful clubs right now but I class man utd arsenal and Liverpool as bigger overall- each to their own view.
Does anyone here think we are a bigger club than any of those 3 out of interest?
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eastie is that bloke in the pink suit on the last day of standing on the Holte isn't he?
"Come on everybody all together....walk on, walk oooonn with hope etc etc"
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As I say as big clubs are ranked we are on a par with everton , we are not as big a club as man utd , arsenal or Liverpool - they are the 3 biggest English clubs in my view - not the best teams but the biggest clubs.
Just out of interest, what criteria do you use to judge a 'big club'? Numbers through the turnstiles? History of trophies won? Recent success? Financial clout?
To me 'big club' is a meaningless statement as it means different things to different people. And football is a transient business, so clubs you are classing as 'bigger' now could, for a variety of reasons, be struggling in a year or two and we'd be nicking their best players.
John, I judge "a big club" on the number of FA cups stolen.... ;)
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As I say as big clubs are ranked we are on a par with everton , we are not as big a club as man utd , arsenal or Liverpool - they are the 3 biggest English clubs in my view - not the best teams but the biggest clubs.
JockY What do you unbelievable about that statement? Yes we have won the European cup and I had the privilege of seeing us win it , Liverpool have done it 5 times and forest twice , I am saying our history over the last 90 yrs we haven't won the sort of trophies to be classed up there with the liverpools and man utds.
If only we could have a debate like this every ten years and record the conclusions for posterity. Imagine if we had begun having such debates from 1890 onwards.
The fact is football changes and is very fluid - or at least it was beforre the days of the media and big money influencing it. Stating club x, y or z are the biggest, as though it is set in stone, is a nonsense. Certainly those three clubs currently have more trophies on their rolls of honour,and certainly those three clubs have more "plastic" fans than us at the moment - but that is all down to the Premier League, the media and the way football has panned out since 1993.
They're "bigger" clubs than us in the same way that Katy Perry is currently a bigger hit-maker than The Rolling Stones. Things change, nothing is set in stone. One thing's for certain, for the greater part of our existence we have been a more trophied club than Man Utd than Man Utd have been more trophied than us!
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As said earlier Bren I hate Liverpool but Im not going to say we are a bigger club than them and I sadly understand why downing wants to go .
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Billy walker if in 1990 you had asked the 3 biggest clubs in England before the premier league the reply would be Liverpool , man utd and arsenal- check the all time league tables we are talking over the last 100 yrs not just since the premier league .
This is 2011 not 1911.
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All of those John, history of trophies, gates, finance , worldwide fan base, Recent success and being up there regularly over a long period of time, Chelsea and man city are rich successful clubs right now but I class man utd arsenal and Liverpool as bigger overall- each to their own view.
Does anyone here think we are a bigger club than any of those 3 out of interest?
Bigger than all five. We always have been, as a Villa fan you should know this, even if we don't win anything for the next 100 years we will be bigger than them. You forgot Barcelona and Real Madrid by the way.
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Have you remembered we've won a bit more than an FA cup and a league title in the last 90 years though eastie? I dont honestly give a fuck who thinks who is bigger. It's childish.
It's the Sky speak that gets on my morks.
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Back on downing has anyone any idea about this inter Milan Kenyan winger we have been linked with as a replacement at £2.5m according to reports in Italy.
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Maz I know what we have won and am very proud of it , let's hope big eck is the man to bring back the silverware to us !
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As said earlier Bren I hate Liverpool but Im not going to say we are a bigger club than them and I sadly understand why downing wants to go .
Take no notice Eastie - it's a legitimate argument and don't let anybody tell you otherwise just because they happen not to agree.
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Billy walker if in 1990 you had asked the 3 biggest clubs in England before the premier league the reply would be Liverpool , man utd and arsenal- check the all time league tables we are talking over the last 100 yrs not just since the premier league .
This is 2011 not 1911.
In 1990 we had more trophies than Arsenal, Eastie!
True, they'd edged ahead of us in league titles - I think they were on nine by then - but in terms of overall trophies they were behind us. Ditto Man Utd. (I think Liverpool had overtaken us twelve years earlier.)
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As I say as big clubs are ranked we are on a par with everton , we are not as big a club as man utd , arsenal or Liverpool - they are the 3 biggest English clubs in my view - not the best teams but the biggest clubs.
Just out of interest, what criteria do you use to judge a 'big club'? Numbers through the turnstiles? History of trophies won? Recent success? Financial clout?
To me 'big club' is a meaningless statement as it means different things to different people. And football is a transient business, so clubs you are classing as 'bigger' now could, for a variety of reasons, be struggling in a year or two and we'd be nicking their best players.
John, I judge "a big club" on the number of FA cups stolen.... ;)
Only meaningful barometer in my eyes.
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The trick is not to get wrapped up on the who is bigger than who game. When a new season starts I am always optimistic. As far as I'm concerned we've always been the best, even in the 3rd Division, to losing to ManUre in the league cup. It's a fact of life Win or Lose we are the best, because since I've been 7 I have supported Villa, and I'm now 50, and were still the best, always will be Win or Lose.
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Trophies is one of many criteria Billy, arsenal and man utd in 1990 who still huge clubs as you know only too well , like I say this is 2011 , in 1911 we were the número UNO of English football but sadly no more.
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Back on downing has anyone any idea about this inter Milan Kenyan winger we have been linked with as a replacement at £2.5m according to reports in Italy.
Managed to find this, i've translated it as best I can
Allan outsize Wanga (born November 26, 1985 in Kisumu) is a Kenyan footballer, currently playing for Inter Milan. He is making much goodness as a Winger. Oh how he dreams of playing in the Europa League for the Azerbaijani first division club Baku FC could it be we are aborted, dreams can come true say Gabrielle.
Tasting very sour after No, No, No, you don't love me and I know with a work permit. Now loaned to Vietnamese side Hoang Anh Gia Lai Love you long time for a season.
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I think eastie has been possessed by the evil retarded spirit of future dead Jim White.
That's just piss funny.
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Stewart 'Mediocre' Downing
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All of those John, history of trophies, gates, finance , worldwide fan base, Recent success and being up there regularly over a long period of time, Chelsea and man city are rich successful clubs right now but I class man utd arsenal and Liverpool as bigger overall- each to their own view.
Does anyone here think we are a bigger club than any of those 3 out of interest?
Bigger than all five. We always have been, as a Villa fan you should know this, even if we don't win anything for the next 100 years we will be bigger than them. You forgot Barcelona and Real Madrid by the way.
[/quote]
All of those John, history of trophies, gates, finance , worldwide fan base, Recent success and being up there regularly over a long period of time, Chelsea and man city are rich successful clubs right now but I class man utd arsenal and Liverpool as bigger overall- each to their own view.
Does anyone here think we are a bigger club than any of those 3 out of interest?
Bigger than all five. We always have been, as a Villa fan you should know this, even if we don't win anything for the next 100 years we will be bigger than them. You forgot Barcelona and Real Madrid by the way.
Historically, we are to Liverpool (or any other plastic media club) what they are to Chelsea. Ergo, we are now, have been and always will be, number one.
"Big" is a horrible, vulgar term that reflects the awful direction football has been headed since, possibly, the 1950's/1960's. It's values have steadily been eroding, the whole game becoming more shallow and tabloid-esque as the years have flowed by. It's no surprise that the clubs you mention Eastie - Man Utd and Liverpool - have prospered in such an era because both of these clubs have played the media/money game better than anyone. Where on earth were these two clubs before TV came on the scene? They were nobodies.
Comparing these Johnny-Come-Lately clubs to the likes of Aston Villa is like comparing Tesco's to Harrod's. Tesco's can keep expanding and making money but it won't make them, in my judgement, better or more historic than Harrod's. Try explaining that to the average footballer, though. I don't think the average player has the means to think things through for himself. Like Redman (only joking, Redman) and many others, they will swallow the media version of the history of football and think Liverpool are a greater club than they actually are.
It's interesting. I've read a similar thread to this on a Liverpool forum, the difference being that their equivalent to Eastie (in terms of the debate) is arguing that Man City are a bigger and more attractive club than Liverpool.
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I think there's more to it than tv Billy- in fairness Liverpool were built up by shankly and busby did similar at united - they laid the foundations over numerous years, during the Saunders era we had the basis to really build on our title success and I wonder if Ron had stayed another few years what might have been - sadly it wasn't to be and our period of glory was all too fleeting.
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Just a comment on the 'Downing to have a medical and stay at the L'pool hilton' ITK posted a couple of pages ago. I read the other day that, 'Downing joined Aston Villa in summer 2009 after passing a medical'.
No idea where this was published - I've been reading so many stories here and there about transfers, recently (can't imagine why) but I suspect that the writer had used a formulaic description of a move between clubs having forgotten one aspect of the transfer in question. Downing couldn't walk far without crutches at the time!
That started me thinking about what it would take to fail a medical at a football club.
I suspect like many posters on here, a famous one I can remember was Asa Hartford's medical at Leeds. Then I found this. http://www.dragonlink.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php?t-13163.html
So (if the ITK is true) it seems that Downing should sail through this medical in whatever shape he's in.
I'd like to keep him, but now think that the only thing that will keep Downing at Villa is either a surprise on the Hartford scale or more likely, Alex McLeish's determination to keep him, unless he manages to sign somebody who offers at least the same skill set.
Or hopefully even better!
Bit of a sideways move on the thread but still about Downing!
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History doesn't really matter anymore. I doubt most of our players even knew we won the European Cup before they signed for us. The number of 'fans' a team has in Thailand or Kenya is what matters these days...
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Most successful side in English football up until the late 60's
More trophies than Man U up until 1993.
Level with Arsenal on total trophies won up until Wenger took over in 1996.
But what does it matter if we don't add to it. You only have to look at the Anfield layout to see that they were traditionally a smallish club pre Shankly. All small/medium sized one tiered stands and the Kop was about half the size of the Holte. Historically Everton were the bigger club.
But the bulk of Liverpool's success ran parallel to the time when the game was getting more TV exposure from the 60's onwards. Since then, they've pretty much always been there or thereabouts. We've had decent spells; mid -late 70's early 80's early-mid 90's but never a consistent period during that time of competing. And it that that ultimately sets the perception, both for pundits and plastics alike.
For me, the better sides target what they're going to win next. I value our history, but if we're content to wallow in it and simply reminisce (not levelling that at you, BW) we could easily go the way of Preston, Huddersfield and Wolves et.c. They were a big deal at one time or another -and there fans will probably still tell you they are.
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Seems a deal has been done ....
Aston Villa & Liverpool agree a fee over Stuart Downing, more than likely to be 'undisclosed' should develop a lot over the next day #LFC
web • 12/07/2011 05:11 PM
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That "reliable source" has spelt Stewart wrong.
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Good post gagey and yes if we were having this discussion 50 yrs ago we would be up there but we are in 2011 now and the glory days were too long ago- I for one would love to see us win the fa cup under mcleish- that is my holy Grail having seen us win other trophies- let's hope it's a season to remember!
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That "reliable source" has spelt Stewart wrong.
Yes, he changed that in another tweet.
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Does that mickey mouse town even have a Hilton?
He'd fail the medical anyway. They wont be able to find his spine.
there is one
http://www.hilton.co.uk/liverpool
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"Historically, we are to Liverpool (or any other plastic media club) what they are to Chelsea."
I'm a Liverpool fan, been following since Redman posted.
We're all biased and proud of our club, etc. I'm not surprised the media comments on Liverpool, "Legendary Kop", etc make you sick, the "night in Istanbul" comment was funny.
But our history, the club and team Shankly built, and Paisley continued, is based on his philosophy. Shankly was a Socialist, our fans believed in the man, the club, and had faith in the teams he built. You might think that faith was misplaced but its not a history based on financial clout, or even trophies won. Surely you can see it can't be equated to what Abramovich is doing at Chelsea?
I'm too young to remember Shanks, but I remember the great teams of the 80's, and they were a force to be idolised. What the older fans around me could call a continuation of the Liverpool way. Something we could all believe in.
The greater history of AVFC, as far as I can make out on here, is based on the fact you were formed 20 years before us and on trophies won, that even our Grandfathers can't remember. Basically, stuff you read about in a Rothamans annual.
History isn't about trophies accumulated, but equally its not about year formed in, or number of trophies won before WW1. To us its about what the club means to its fans, and has meant through time. Our history is the club Shankly built for the people of Liverpool to be proud of.
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We did establish the whole football league thing.
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Welcome liverpool fans. Lovely that you're here. Er, just one thing. This is a Villa site. So, anything less than, you are the greatest club ever just doesn't quite cut it. But with that understanding absolutely understood - carry on sharing.
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"Historically, we are to Liverpool (or any other plastic media club) what they are to Chelsea."
I'm a Liverpool fan, been following since Redman posted.
We're all biased and proud of our club, etc. I'm not surprised the media comments on Liverpool, "Legendary Kop", etc make you sick, the "night in Istanbul" comment was funny.
But our history, the club and team Shankly built, and Paisley continued, is based on his philosophy. Shankly was a Socialist, our fans believed in the man, the club, and had faith in the teams he built. You might think that faith was misplaced but its not a history based on financial clout, or even trophies won. Surely you can see it can't be equated to what Abramovich is doing at Chelsea?
I'm too young to remember Shanks, but I remember the great teams of the 80's, and they were a force to be idolised. What the older fans around me could call a continuation of the Liverpool way. Something we could all believe in.
The greater history of AVFC, as far as I can make out on here, is based on the fact you were formed 20 years before us and on trophies won, that even our Grandfathers can't remember. Basically, stuff you read about in a Rothamans annual.
History isn't about trophies accumulated, but equally its not about year formed in, or number of trophies won before WW1. To us its about what the club means to its fans, and has meant through time. Our history is the club Shankly built for the people of Liverpool to be proud of.
Nope. Our greater history is based on the fact we created the league. The world's first league. On top of that we had football's first true dynasty and visionaries behind us.
Allow me to quote you here:
"The greater history of AVFC, as far as I can make out on here, is based on the fact you were formed 20 years before us and on trophies won, that even our Grandfathers can't remember. Basically, stuff you read about in a Rothamans annual."
Allow me to re-write it as Chelsea fan talking about Liverpool:
"The greater history of LFC, as far as I can make out on here, is based on the fact you struck it rich thirty years before us and on trophies won, that only our dad's remember. Basically, stuff you watched on Saint and Greavsie."
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You're only as good as your last game.
How did that go again?
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Come now Billy we must not live 100 years in the past ,we need to move on and win things in the here and now.
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Not a history based on financial clout?!
Liverpool have been amongst the biggest wage payers from the sixties onwards. Shankly's first act as Liverpool manager? He doubled the, then, Liverpool transfer record and signed Ian St. John. It was a huge signing for a second tier football club.
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"Historically, we are to Liverpool (or any other plastic media club) what they are to Chelsea."
I'm a Liverpool fan, been following since Redman posted.
We're all biased and proud of our club, etc. I'm not surprised the media comments on Liverpool, "Legendary Kop", etc make you sick, the "night in Istanbul" comment was funny.
But our history, the club and team Shankly built, and Paisley continued, is based on his philosophy. Shankly was a Socialist, our fans believed in the man, the club, and had faith in the teams he built. You might think that faith was misplaced but its not a history based on financial clout, or even trophies won. Surely you can see it can't be equated to what Abramovich is doing at Chelsea?
I'm too young to remember Shanks, but I remember the great teams of the 80's, and they were a force to be idolised. What the older fans around me could call a continuation of the Liverpool way. Something we could all believe in.
The greater history of AVFC, as far as I can make out on here, is based on the fact you were formed 20 years before us and on trophies won, that even our Grandfathers can't remember. Basically, stuff you read about in a Rothamans annual.
History isn't about trophies accumulated, but equally its not about year formed in, or number of trophies won before WW1. To us its about what the club means to its fans, and has meant through time. Our history is the club Shankly built for the people of Liverpool to be proud of.
Nope. Our greater history is based on the fact we created the league. The world's first league. On top of that we had football's first true dynasty and visionaries behind us.
Allow me to quote you here:
"The greater history of AVFC, as far as I can make out on here, is based on the fact you were formed 20 years before us and on trophies won, that even our Grandfathers can't remember. Basically, stuff you read about in a Rothamans annual."
Allow me to re-write it as Chelsea fan talking about Liverpool:
"The greater history of LFC, as far as I can make out on here, is based on the fact you struck it rich thirty years before us and on trophies won, that only our dad's remember. Basically, stuff you watched on Saint and Greavsie."
Respect Villa's post was well written but this "club for the people thing", that's how all fans feel isn't it? I mean, do you really think that Liverpool belongs to it's fans anymore than Chelsea, or Sunderland, or Villa, or Everton, or Manchester United. The only reason fans of clubs like Liverpool and Man Utd feel like they have to push this working class for the people thing is to counteract the fact that most of it's support has never actually been to Liverpool or Manchester. Not casting any aspersions on the poster BTW, I'm sure he's from Toxteth or Bootle or somewhere.
As for the big club argument, it's ALL about timing and perception and increasingly money.
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RespectVilla, good post but I think that the club that Shankley built is just a distant memory these days both in terms of success on the pitch and your standing off it. There's little doubt that he and those that followed achieved great things but you're now on your second set of Yank billionaires and your fan base is distinctly cosmopolitan rather than just the 'people of Liverpool'. A long way from his socialist vision.
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Come now Billy we must not live 100 years in the past ,we need to move on and win things in the here and now.
You're only as good as your last game.
How did that go again?
No, no! At Liverpool you are only as good as your last pass. (I think that's what Hansen told the masses back in the nineties.) I make that a scuffed Kuyt shinner that went out at the Witton Lane.
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Agree in part rigatoni but it's not all about money- partly maybe but I certainly wouldn't say Chelsea are a bigger club than villa- richer and more successful at the moment yes but bigger no!
On that note I will bid you all goodnight , back to work at 5 am so I'm off to sleep.
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Liverpool are a big club, whichever way you want to cut it. By whatever definition you want to use. But then so are we.
Bigger/ biggest - that's always going to be down to individual interpretation, with lashings of bias thrown in for good measure.
I think most neutrals -and a fair few Villa fans would say they are, at this stage. I don't think many Redscouse fans would reciprocate. They've had the guts of 40 years now being in and around the top echelons of the league -and don't tend to have the same dry spells we do between trophies won.
If McGregor was instrumental in setting up the league (and he was) McKenna at Liverpool played a big role in the formative years of the comp too, as vice president and then president. So they have been big players near enough since the get go. They do have pedigree. A quick scan of their honours says they won their first league title in 1901 and had five on the board soon after WWII (compared to our six at that stage). Which surprised me TBH.
Was McGregor's genius in forming the league and seeing the possibilities, or merely getting their first? After all, there were clubs formed before us (and soon after us). Could it be argued that a domestic league would have inevitably happened anyway? I'll leave that to people who know a bit more about the subject.
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I don't give a shit about the 'Liverpool-bigger-than-Villa thing, what pisses me off is the fact that he (Downing) arrived on one leg, took 6 months money out of the club as we showed faith in him, he was average at best for the rest of the season. One decent season and he fucks off at the first opportunity after completely changes his mind.
No doubt the gutless, spineless piece of shit will be injured on his return to Villa Park. If he shirks a tackle, he'll certainly shirk faces the Villa fans at Villa Park. Tosser
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Come now Billy we must not live 100 years in the past ,we need to move on and win things in the here and now.
I agree, Eastie, every club wants to win in the here and now. We desperately need to add a few trophies to our cabinet. Having said that, there is no harm at all in looking at history and putting it into context. When certain football clubs get such a free, positive press and other clubs don't (despite being far more influential) you have to start making a noise about it. This idea that Liverpool supporters have about their club, this notion that their history is greater than Villa's is, to put it politely, ridiculous.
Lets compare Shankly's record with our own Geogre Ramsay:
George Ramsay: League Championships: 6
FA Cups 6
(League and Cup Double 1)
Bill Shankly: League Champs 3
FA Cup 2
UEFA Cup 1
Which one of the two have you read about in the newspapers, heard mentioned on TV etc.? I couldn't care less about where, when, how or why the honours were won...the press seem to have moulded the history of football into a certain way. We have every right to challenge it.
Because Ramsay's success finished forty years before Shankly's started is no excuse to not remember or celebrate it. If that was the case we may as well forget about Shankly now and start worshiping at the altar of Jose M.
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With due respect, I can't take your arguments seriously if you insist that your club was solely responsible for forming the league. Has it not occurred to you that you needed other teams to play against?
If it was your guy who first said, "hey, lets have a league with points and stuff", is that what you're most proud of? I'll stick with Shankly's vision "My idea is to build a bastion of invincability... so they have to send a team from Mars to beat us" and all that.
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I've got to admit to being delighted with the Downing deal. Had a stop start year and a half, and if we sell for 20million, that's a cracking bit of business by Randy.
Never rated him. Not even through his purple patch last season.
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"Because Ramsay's success finished forty years before Shankly's started is no excuse to not remember"
The excuse we have for not remembering is, er, none of us can remember that far back.
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I don't give a shit about the 'Liverpool-bigger-than-Villa thing, what pisses me off is the fact that he (Downing) arrived on one leg, took 6 months money out of the club as we showed faith in him, he was average at best for the rest of the season. One decent season and he fucks off at the first opportunity after completely changes his mind.
No doubt the gutless, spineless piece of shit will be injured on his return to Villa Park. If he shirks a tackle, he'll certainly shirk faces the Villa fans at Villa Park. Tosser
My thoughts too..
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I don't give a shit about the 'Liverpool-bigger-than-Villa thing, what pisses me off is the fact that he (Downing) arrived on one leg, took 6 months money out of the club as we showed faith in him, he was average at best for the rest of the season. One decent season and he fucks off at the first opportunity after completely changes his mind.
No doubt the gutless, spineless piece of shit will be injured on his return to Villa Park. If he shirks a tackle, he'll certainly shirk faces the Villa fans at Villa Park. Tosser
My thoughts too..
Hear hear!
And strangely enough the most common word I have used for the last 2 seasons in relation to Downing is "TOSSER"!
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With due respect, I can't take your arguments seriously if you insist that your club was solely responsible for forming the league. Has it not occurred to you that you needed other teams to play against?
If it was your guy who first said, "hey, lets have a league with points and stuff", is that what you're most proud of? I'll stick with Shankly's vision "My idea is to build a bastion of invincability... so they have to send a team from Mars to beat us" and all that.
If you want to come and argue about that piece of history, at least have the respect to look it up and know what you are talking about before dismissing it, especially on a Villa site fella.
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I don't give a shit about the 'Liverpool-bigger-than-Villa thing, what pisses me off is the fact that he (Downing) arrived on one leg, took 6 months money out of the club as we showed faith in him, he was average at best for the rest of the season. One decent season and he fucks off at the first opportunity after completely changes his mind.
No doubt the gutless, spineless piece of shit will be injured on his return to Villa Park. If he shirks a tackle, he'll certainly shirk faces the Villa fans at Villa Park. Tosser
My thoughts too..
Hear hear!
And strangely enough the most common word I have used for the last 2 seasons in relation to Downing is "TOSSER"!
I thought it was 'fuckin poofter'
No offence like.
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"Because Ramsay's success finished forty years before Shankly's started is no excuse to not remember"
The excuse we have for not remembering is, er, none of us can remember that far back.
I don't remember Shankly.
I do remember Kevin Keegan and Emlyn Hughes planting big wet smackers on Margaret Thatcher.
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Historically, we are to Liverpool (or any other plastic media club) what they are to Chelsea. Ergo, we are now, have been and always will be, number one.
"Big" is a horrible, vulgar term that reflects the awful direction football has been headed since, possibly, the 1950's/1960's. It's values have steadily been eroding, the whole game becoming more shallow and tabloid-esque as the years have flowed by. It's no surprise that the clubs you mention Eastie - Man Utd and Liverpool - have prospered in such an era because both of these clubs have played the media/money game better than anyone. Where on earth were these two clubs before TV came on the scene? They were nobodies.
Comparing these Johnny-Come-Lately clubs to the likes of Aston Villa is like comparing Tesco's to Harrod's. Tesco's can keep expanding and making money but it won't make them, in my judgement, better or more historic than Harrod's. Try explaining that to the average footballer, though. I don't think the average player has the means to think things through for himself. Like Redman (only joking, Redman) and many others, they will swallow the media version of the history of football and think Liverpool are a greater club than they actually are.
It's interesting. I've read a similar thread to this on a Liverpool forum, the difference being that their equivalent to Eastie (in terms of the debate) is arguing that Man City are a bigger and more attractive club than Liverpool.
You'll never get anywhere with claims about which club has the greater history because any number of clubs could make a case just as arbitrary as yours.
It amazes me to see the media argument peddled. Plenty of Liverpool supporters make the same claim against other clubs and I've seen Manc and Chelsea supporters also do the same. It's just playing the victim and adds nothing to the debate.
If you're really interested in which club is bigger/has the greater history or whatever, my advice would be don't trust the judgment of any Liverpool or Villa supporter. Including yourself.
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If it was your guy who first said, "hey, lets have a league with points and stuff", is that what you're most proud of? I'll stick with Shankly's vision "My idea is to build a bastion of invincability... so they have to send a team from Mars to beat us" and all that
Was going 20-odd years without a league title part of his vision as well?
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think downing will go only when we have his replaement ready to sign for the club
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I don't give a shit about the 'Liverpool-bigger-than-Villa thing, what pisses me off is the fact that he (Downing) arrived on one leg, took 6 months money out of the club as we showed faith in him, he was average at best for the rest of the season. One decent season and he fucks off at the first opportunity after completely changes his mind.
No doubt the gutless, spineless piece of shit will be injured on his return to Villa Park. If he shirks a tackle, he'll certainly shirk faces the Villa fans at Villa Park. Tosser
My thoughts too..
Hear hear!
And strangely enough the most common word I have used for the last 2 seasons in relation to Downing is "TOSSER"!
I thought it was 'fuckin poofter'
No offence like.
Wouldn't dream of using such inelegant terminology andy!
It might upset poor delicate, sensitive Stewart's self-esteem and then he'd have to leave the game early to have a good sulk before the c**t went home to count his money! A true TOSSER!
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I think it is somewhat of a false argument too, as today the biggest club is the one with the biggest backing. 12 months ago Liverpool and Villa were about on a par apart from you having Gerard. Now you are streets ahead, better squad and united behind the manager, however much I think he will fail, the fact is that Liverpool are showing to be a bigger club than Villa. Man City were, 4 years ago, much smaller and had ambitions of staying in the league, now they want to win the champions league. We can argue over who has the greater history, and it is not widely noted that we are the club that founded the league in the press as much as it should be, but recent history would again say that Liverpool have perhaps a history only bettered by Man United. Truth is though, in 3 years Doncaster could be the 3rd biggest club in England, all it takes is a madly rich family with laudering needs to take them over and boom, all others will be brushed aside, while the players will have their Ipods on, furiously texting their agents saying, I need dollar, dollar, dollar is what I need, and off they will scurry. There are few players with the loyalty to become true club greats, and as money makes the game tick, it dictates who the big and not so big clubs are.
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I think it is somewhat of a false argument too, as today the biggest club is the one with the biggest backing. 12 months ago Liverpool and Villa were about on a par apart from you having Gerard. Now you are streets ahead, better squad and united behind the manager, however much I think he will fail, the fact is that Liverpool are showing to be a bigger club than Villa. Man City were, 4 years ago, much smaller and had ambitions of staying in the league, now they want to win the champions league. We can argue over who has the greater history, and it is not widely noted that we are the club that founded the league in the press as much as it should be, but recent history would again say that Liverpool have perhaps a history only bettered by Man United. Truth is though, in 3 years Doncaster could be the 3rd biggest club in England, all it takes is a madly rich family with laudering needs to take them over and boom, all others will be brushed aside, while the players will have their Ipods on, furiously texting their agents saying, I need dollar, dollar, dollar is what I need, and off they will scurry. There are few players with the loyalty to become true club greats, and as money makes the game tick, it dictates who the big and not so big clubs are.
It's fair argument. I don't personally agree that the size of club can be determined over such a short-term period but I can't say your interpretation is wrong.
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With due respect, I can't take your arguments seriously if you insist that your club was solely responsible for forming the league. Has it not occurred to you that you needed other teams to play against?
If it was your guy who first said, "hey, lets have a league with points and stuff", is that what you're most proud of? I'll stick with Shankly's vision "My idea is to build a bastion of invincability... so they have to send a team from Mars to beat us" and all that.
I much prefer:
“For brilliance and, at the same time, for consistency of achievement, for activity in philanthropic enterprise, for astuteness of management and for general alertness, the superiors of Aston Villa cannot be found.”
Our man William McGregor said that - long before old Shanks even thought of such things. It's great to be the originals.
What I love about what McGregor says here is that The Aston Villa Football Club was not merely a sporting institution, it was also a philanthropic enterprise - a club deep-rooted in community and the welfare of others. Everything you laud about Liverpool is superb, but give credit to the club that did it first, the club that fathered this great game. Doing things first, being the originators is what makes Villa peerless.
We're all looking forward to the big kick-off in August. When the big day comes and we start the weekly battle once more, tip your hat to McGregor and Villa. We gave the world this unrivalled competition.
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The sooner the shithouse puts in a transfer request and buggers off the better.
Chances of him putting in a transfer request - zero.
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With due respect, I can't take your arguments seriously if you insist that your club was solely responsible for forming the league. Has it not occurred to you that you needed other teams to play against?
If it was your guy who first said, "hey, lets have a league with points and stuff", is that what you're most proud of? I'll stick with Shankly's vision "My idea is to build a bastion of invincability... so they have to send a team from Mars to beat us" and all that.
I much prefer:
“For brilliance and, at the same time, for consistency of achievement, for activity in philanthropic enterprise, for astuteness of management and for general alertness, the superiors of Aston Villa cannot be found.”
Our man William McGregor said that - long before old Shanks even thought of such things. It's great to be the originals.
What I love about what McGregor says here is that The Aston Villa Football Club was not merely a sporting institution, it was also a philanthropic enterprise - a club deep-rooted in community and the welfare of others. Everything you laud about Liverpool is superb, but give credit to the club that did it first, the club that fathered this great game. Doing things first, being the originators is what makes Villa peerless.
We're all looking forward to the big kick-off in August. When the big day comes and we start the weekly battle once more, tip your hat to McGregor and Villa. We gave the world this unrivalled competition.
Stands. Claps.
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Why are we arguing over who's the bigger club.
Clearly Liverpool are a bigger club.
That's not to say that we are a small club, just that they are bigger.
However, a year ago, I would say that we were the better team (proved since we finished above them.)
Obviously that has changed this season thanks to Liverpool's number 1 fan Gerard Houllier.
However we only finished 3 places below them and neither of us are in Europe next season.
That's why I guess people are annoyed because Downing was going on about how great the Champions League is yet he wants to join a club who aren't even in the Europa League yet alone the Champions League.
Liverpool are in the same boat as us.
Premier League, FA Cup and Carling Cup.
So I can see why some people would view it as a sort of a sideways move.
In terms of current, now, Liverpool aren't that much ahead than us compared to Man Utd and Chelsea.
However if you're looking at the history and sizes of the two clubs. Liverpool are the bigger club without doubt.
We love to remind everyone that we won the European Cup.
Liverpool have won it five times!
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I want to keep him. He's very good. Until and unless AMcL signs somebody better. Or Liverpool offer silly money. He gains nothing at this point by putting in a request as I understand it but he has, sadly, got form for that at Middlesborough. It got knocked back there (Jan 2009) so maybe he has learned something.
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I want to keep him. He's very good. Until and unless AMcL signs somebody better. Or Liverpool offer silly money. He gains nothing at this point by putting in a request as I understand it but he has, sadly, got form for that at Middlesborough. It got knocked back there (Jan 2009) so maybe he has learned something.
Yeah he said he regretted putting in a transfer request at Boro.
So I would be surprised and disappointed if he hands in a transfer request at Villa.
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With due respect, I can't take your arguments seriously if you insist that your club was solely responsible for forming the league. Has it not occurred to you that you needed other teams to play against?
If it was your guy who first said, "hey, lets have a league with points and stuff", is that what you're most proud of? I'll stick with Shankly's vision "My idea is to build a bastion of invincability... so they have to send a team from Mars to beat us" and all that.
I much prefer:
“For brilliance and, at the same time, for consistency of achievement, for activity in philanthropic enterprise, for astuteness of management and for general alertness, the superiors of Aston Villa cannot be found.”
Our man William McGregor said that - long before old Shanks even thought of such things. It's great to be the originals.
What I love about what McGregor says here is that The Aston Villa Football Club was not merely a sporting institution, it was also a philanthropic enterprise - a club deep-rooted in community and the welfare of others. Everything you laud about Liverpool is superb, but give credit to the club that did it first, the club that fathered this great game. Doing things first, being the originators is what makes Villa peerless.
We're all looking forward to the big kick-off in August. When the big day comes and we start the weekly battle once more, tip your hat to McGregor and Villa. We gave the world this unrivalled competition.
Stands. Claps.
Stands. Claps. Chants. Shouts quite loudly. Sings in unison with thousands of likeminded, dedicated, committed true fans of AVFC. Screams bollocks off. Sighs proudly. Sleeps peacefully.
Can we do this every week please?
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Billy Walker wins!
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4120/zangief.gif)
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With due respect, I can't take your arguments seriously if you insist that your club was solely responsible for forming the league. Has it not occurred to you that you needed other teams to play against?
If it was your guy who first said, "hey, lets have a league with points and stuff", is that what you're most proud of? I'll stick with Shankly's vision "My idea is to build a bastion of invincability... so they have to send a team from Mars to beat us" and all that.
I much prefer:
“For brilliance and, at the same time, for consistency of achievement, for activity in philanthropic enterprise, for astuteness of management and for general alertness, the superiors of Aston Villa cannot be found.”
Our man William McGregor said that - long before old Shanks even thought of such things. It's great to be the originals.
What I love about what McGregor says here is that The Aston Villa Football Club was not merely a sporting institution, it was also a philanthropic enterprise - a club deep-rooted in community and the welfare of others. Everything you laud about Liverpool is superb, but give credit to the club that did it first, the club that fathered this great game. Doing things first, being the originators is what makes Villa peerless.
We're all looking forward to the big kick-off in August. When the big day comes and we start the weekly battle once more, tip your hat to McGregor and Villa. We gave the world this unrivalled competition.
Stands. Claps.
Stands. Claps. Chants. Shouts quite loudly. Sings in unison with thousands of likeminded, dedicated, committed true fans of AVFC. Screams bollocks off. Sighs proudly. Sleeps peacefully.
Can we do this every week please?
Apologies for the multiple quote, but a big, "Oh, yes!" from me.
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“For brilliance and, at the same time, for consistency of achievement, for activity in philanthropic enterprise, for astuteness of management and for general alertness, the superiors of Aston Villa cannot be found.”
Brilliant post, but (and you know there has to be a but) while yours was a philanthropic exercise, ours was an exercise of conquest. A team built to tear through the opposition all over the world. Your man was "aiming for consistency of achievement", but Shankly built a club to conquer the globe.
Was going 20-odd years without a league title part of his vision as well? - Haha
I do remember Kevin Keegan and Emlyn Hughes planting big wet smackers on Margaret Thatcher.
- ouch
I never knew you were the originals, I'll bear that in mind in future. Got to go now guys, all the best.
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I'm blushing! The thing is, though, it's the truth. We're far too modest about our club and we really need be proud of what we have achieved and use it as the basis for taking the club forward. There's no club out there that can match our history or influence - regardless of what cockney/north west media folk spoon feed us. I hope every young lad at Bodymoor learns all of this, appreciates all of this and realizes that this is THE club to build a career at and to win trophies at. This club's natural station is second to none and there should be no greater thing in football than winning trophies in the original claret and blue shirt.
If any of these plastic, Johnny-come-lately clubs come sniffing around any of our youth players I hope they (the players) have been taught to reason, to think for themselves and to tell whoever it might be: why would I want to leave the greatest club in football?
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Shankly my arse. When we were the first superpower of football there wasn't a globe to conquer. Our idea of league football was just getting around you see.
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Is this still the Downing thread?
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I'm blushing! The thing is, though, it's the truth. We're far too modest about our club and we really need be proud of what we have achieved and use it as the basis for taking the club forward. There's no club out there that can match our history or influence - regardless of what cockney/north west media folk spoon feed us. I hope every young lad at Bodymoor learns all of this, appreciates all of this and realizes that this is THE club to build a career at and to win trophies at. This club's natural station is second to none and there should be no greater thing in football than winning trophies in the original claret and blue shirt.
If any of these plastic, Johnny-come-lately clubs come sniffing around any of our youth players I hope they (the players) have been taught to reason, to think for themselves and to tell whoever it might be: why would I want to leave the greatest club in football?
Sorry to shit in the punchbowl but this is still just an arbitrary claim to greatness, isn't it?
It is, of course, a claim you're perfectly entitled to. As are supporters of other clubs with their equally arbitrary claims.
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Shankly my arse. When we were the first superpower of football there wasn't a globe to conquer. Our idea of league football was just getting around you see.
He was that twat who said football is more important than life and was then venerated by twats of the same ilk such as Jimmy Tarbuck and numerous other unfunny and unwitty scousers who thought it was awfully clever and insightful and showed how special he (Shankly) was. Instead of which it just made him sound thick and uneducated, particularly in the light of Heysel and Hillsborough
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I'm blushing! The thing is, though, it's the truth. We're far too modest about our club and we really need be proud of what we have achieved and use it as the basis for taking the club forward. There's no club out there that can match our history or influence - regardless of what cockney/north west media folk spoon feed us. I hope every young lad at Bodymoor learns all of this, appreciates all of this and realizes that this is THE club to build a career at and to win trophies at. This club's natural station is second to none and there should be no greater thing in football than winning trophies in the original claret and blue shirt.
If any of these plastic, Johnny-come-lately clubs come sniffing around any of our youth players I hope they (the players) have been taught to reason, to think for themselves and to tell whoever it might be: why would I want to leave the greatest club in football?
Sorry to shit in the punchbowl but this is still just an arbitrary claim to greatness, isn't it?
It is, of course, a claim you're perfectly entitled to. As are supporters of other clubs with their equally arbitrary claims.
Well quite clearly no Redman. You have what you have, we have this, which is the truth, and only we have it. Essentially, you would not have yours unless we did what we did, or a least it may look different to the way it does. So be grateful, and respectful of our rather large piece of the history of football.
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I'm blushing! The thing is, though, it's the truth. We're far too modest about our club and we really need be proud of what we have achieved and use it as the basis for taking the club forward. There's no club out there that can match our history or influence - regardless of what cockney/north west media folk spoon feed us. I hope every young lad at Bodymoor learns all of this, appreciates all of this and realizes that this is THE club to build a career at and to win trophies at. This club's natural station is second to none and there should be no greater thing in football than winning trophies in the original claret and blue shirt.
If any of these plastic, Johnny-come-lately clubs come sniffing around any of our youth players I hope they (the players) have been taught to reason, to think for themselves and to tell whoever it might be: why would I want to leave the greatest club in football?
Sorry to shit in the punchbowl but this is still just an arbitrary claim to greatness, isn't it?
It is, of course, a claim you're perfectly entitled to. As are supporters of other clubs with their equally arbitrary claims.
Well quite clearly no Redman. You have what you have, we have this, which is the truth, and only we have it. Essentially, you would not have yours unless we did what we did, or a least it may look different to the way it does. So be grateful, and respectful of our rather large piece of the history of football.
I am grateful and respectful but let's keep it in perspective. Nobody involved with Aston Villa built what they did so supporters could use it to score points by making arbitrary claims to greatness on their behalf a century later.
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“For brilliance and, at the same time, for consistency of achievement, for activity in philanthropic enterprise, for astuteness of management and for general alertness, the superiors of Aston Villa cannot be found.”
Think we have a new 'philosophy football shirt' quote here? I would buy one thats for sure.
Well said fella.
p.s. in recognition of the original thread, he can bugger off as far as im concerned...
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McGregor was always going to be biased though, lets be fair. (And nowt wrong with that either.)
Who was that Arsenal forward from around the time of the mid 40's who said 'That's the problem with playing in Europe, all anyone wants to talk about is Aston Villa,' or words to that effect?
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I'm blushing! The thing is, though, it's the truth. We're far too modest about our club and we really need be proud of what we have achieved and use it as the basis for taking the club forward. There's no club out there that can match our history or influence - regardless of what cockney/north west media folk spoon feed us. I hope every young lad at Bodymoor learns all of this, appreciates all of this and realizes that this is THE club to build a career at and to win trophies at. This club's natural station is second to none and there should be no greater thing in football than winning trophies in the original claret and blue shirt.
If any of these plastic, Johnny-come-lately clubs come sniffing around any of our youth players I hope they (the players) have been taught to reason, to think for themselves and to tell whoever it might be: why would I want to leave the greatest club in football?
Sorry to shit in the punchbowl but this is still just an arbitrary claim to greatness, isn't it?
It is, of course, a claim you're perfectly entitled to. As are supporters of other clubs with their equally arbitrary claims.
Well quite clearly no Redman. You have what you have, we have this, which is the truth, and only we have it. Essentially, you would not have yours unless we did what we did, or a least it may look different to the way it does. So be grateful, and respectful of our rather large piece of the history of football.
I am grateful and respectful but let's keep it in perspective. Nobody involved with Aston Villa built what they did so supporters could use it to score points by making arbitrary claims to greatness on their behalf a century later.
It is hardly scoring points, your mate came on and was ignorant to our history, belittled us essentially without doing so blatantly and thus people have rightly jumped to defend the history of the club. If anyone involved with Villa at the time could have imagined what football would become over a century later, I dare say they may not have bothered!
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How does Shanks measure up against this fellow Scot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Ramsay
What a man!
Wonder if SD knows about him?
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Ted Drake was the Arsenal forward..
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I'm blushing! The thing is, though, it's the truth. We're far too modest about our club and we really need be proud of what we have achieved and use it as the basis for taking the club forward. There's no club out there that can match our history or influence - regardless of what cockney/north west media folk spoon feed us. I hope every young lad at Bodymoor learns all of this, appreciates all of this and realizes that this is THE club to build a career at and to win trophies at. This club's natural station is second to none and there should be no greater thing in football than winning trophies in the original claret and blue shirt.
If any of these plastic, Johnny-come-lately clubs come sniffing around any of our youth players I hope they (the players) have been taught to reason, to think for themselves and to tell whoever it might be: why would I want to leave the greatest club in football?
Sorry to shit in the punchbowl but this is still just an arbitrary claim to greatness, isn't it?
It is, of course, a claim you're perfectly entitled to. As are supporters of other clubs with their equally arbitrary claims.
Well quite clearly no Redman. You have what you have, we have this, which is the truth, and only we have it. Essentially, you would not have yours unless we did what we did, or a least it may look different to the way it does. So be grateful, and respectful of our rather large piece of the history of football.
I am grateful and respectful but let's keep it in perspective. Nobody involved with Aston Villa built what they did so supporters could use it to score points by making arbitrary claims to greatness on their behalf a century later.
It is hardly scoring points, your mate came on and was ignorant to our history, belittled us essentially without doing so blatantly and thus people have rightly jumped to defend the history of the club. If anyone involved with Villa at the time could have imagined what football would become over a century later, I dare say they may not have bothered!
That's fair enough but your man Billy Walker has been banging his "Villa are the greatest" drum for a while, as he should. But for it to mean anything, we're going to have to agree on a definition of greatness.
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Aren't you lot bored of this yet. It's a subjective argument that you'll never agree on (possibly) because you're likely to favour the criteria that backs the team you support.
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You know you're a great club when fans of other clubs come over to your forums to talk to and about you.
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sportinglife.com
McLeish 'Downing must keep the right attitude.'
Alex McLeish expects Aston Villa winger Stewart Downing to maintain the right attitude and professionalism if his hopes of a move to Liverpool fail to materialise.
Villa have rejected bids of £12million and £15million from the Reds for Downing and McLeish wants the England international to remain at the midlands club.
McLeish says he overcame failing to secure a move to Manchester United as a player and would expect the same response from Downing if he is still at Villa next season.
He said: "I've spoken to Stewart, I've told him I don't want to sell him.
"There's an obvious distraction there for him but he's been a credit to himself and applied himself in the right way and worked his socks off in training. I don't see a problem professionally.
"Sir Alex Ferguson wanted to sign me for Manchester United when I was at Aberdeen and that wasn't possible in the end.
"That was a big disappointment but I got my head down and worked and I don't doubt Stewart has the character to get through this is he stays at the club.
"It's part of your growing up as a footballer."
Villa will demand £19-20million if it becomes apparent they cannot retain Downing, who has two years remaining of his current contract.
McLeish is optimistic of signing a new keeper to replace Brad Friedel in the near future with Shay Given expected to complete a £3.5 million move from Manchester City.
He said: "We certainly need a keeper and we are making progress. We would like it to happen a bit quicker but we are moving forward."
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I can't see any point in letting this continue as it's just a tit for tat between Villa and Liverpool fans, who might find themselves less than welcome if they don't wind their necks in a bit.
Somebody start a new Downing thread when there's something worthwhile to report please.