Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: WALTERS WARRIORS on May 24, 2011, 02:56:56 PM
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Reo Coker has had a decent season. I agree. But he lacks technical ability. Aerial dominance and the ability to make "killer" passes on a regular basis. He also lacks any pace to go round a player which is crucial in the middle of the park. None of the top six sides or even the top ten would have him in there side so why do some fans think he should stay ?
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Decent holding midfield player. The rest of the stuff is what Makoun is for, I mean I doubt we'd end up signing anyone better than Reo-Coker to replace him.
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I'm not a fan but I suppose the fact that he's been a part of a side that has finished top 10 four years running makes your argument a bit redundant.
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Why does he need to make killer passes? His job is to win the ball, link up play and give it to a claret and blue shirt - something he has done increasingly impressively as the season has gone on because this manager believes in him.
I would hope Delph would be able play that role more impressively over time but he is not ready yet. In the meantime, I would certainly want Reo-Coker to stay.
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if he does go, it will be interesting as to the quality of clubs that come in for him,
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I'm not a fan but I suppose the fact that he's been a part of a side that has finished top 10 four years running makes your argument a bit redundant.
Does not really mean anything. Joey Barton has not even been in the premiership for the last four years. But i know who i would rather have ? .....
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I'm hopeful we can find a slightly better version of him to play the holding role. He's probably worth hanging onto as back up.
As somebody put it to me at the weekend. You don't want a team of Reo Cokers but you do need one.
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He was one of the best players on the pitch on Sunday until GM dragged him off.
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He was one of the best players on the pitch on Sunday until GM dragged him off.
Agreed. He put himself about and broke up attacks very effectively.
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I think he's g.
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I'll be gutted if Coker leaves.Always puts a shift in
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I think he's OG.
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Thread title suggestion: "Reo-Coker?"
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I would like him to stay he has improved this season and his experience will useful for all the younger players.
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He was one of the best players on the pitch on Sunday until GM dragged him off.
Agreed. He put himself about and broke up attacks very effectively.
With the exception of Downing, he's been our most consistent player this season. You can see his confidence has grown over the season, his passing is far better than he's given credit for and without his tackling we'd be lost. He's never going to be your box-to-box player but it's endless running and work as a defensive midfielder that allows the more attacking minded to function.
We'll miss him.
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He has just enjoyed his best spell for the club and brought stability to a side on a dramatic slide to relegation so fair play to him.
The big issue is wages. How much will he want? He will look around the dressing room and see everyone who he is on a par with (ability wise)? and want 50k plus. He isnt worth that and we have adequate players who can play to a similar standard who will be on far less.
Thanks for you commitment to a club who have often overlooked you but this is an easy saving on the wage bill for me.
Good Luck!
I reckon he will be a Wolves player next season! (Purely speculation)
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I personally think we can find someone to do the same, if not better, job as NRC. I dont think he is worth the money he is probably asking for - circa £50k+ a week.
Im sure GH, if he is still in charge, could find someone abroad who will do a better job. Saying that, I would miss NRC if he went as he has played well this season when others have been fairly poor.
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If he wants £30k per week then fair enough........not a good enough footballer for us to pay above that tbh.
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He's had a decent season, I do think he's off though, maybe Bolton or Sunderland, would'nt mind keeping him though.
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Reo Coker has had a decent season. I agree. But he lacks technical ability. Aerial dominance and the ability to make "killer" passes on a regular basis. He also lacks any pace to go round a player which is crucial in the middle of the park. None of the top six sides or even the top ten would have him in there side so why do some fans think he should stay ?
That's the crux of the problem when evaluating Reo-Coker. Despite what he was saying the other day (that he used to be a box-to-box attacking player) he's best in a more defensive role, winning the ball, closing down, etc. You can't expect that and killer passes, beating players for pace - I've seen some criticism levelled at him that he doesn't score many goals. He doesn't. Of course he doesn't. If he was great at everything, he'd be Steve Gerrard.
Is he good at what he does? Yes. Has he had a good season? Yes. Will it cost us good money to sign a similar player to replace him? Yes.
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I'll be gutted if Coker leaves.Always puts a shift in
Very much agreed. I like him, he plays like a fan would, goes in for every challege with 100% commitment and shows passion.
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if he does go, it will be interesting as to the quality of clubs that come in for him,
QPR or Reading (if the latter make the cut) are possible / probable. Perhaps Sunderland or Newcastle (particularly if Barton leaves the latter).
Like people say of AY, we probably won't appreciate his graft until he's gone.
Given the way he was fannied about by MON, I think he's given us good service this season.
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Surely the likes of Sunderland,Newcastle,Wolves suggested wouldn't be able to pay what we could.Bent was on 30k at Sunderland apparently
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Surely the likes of Sunderland,Newcastle,Wolves suggested wouldn't be able to pay what we could.Bent was on 30k at Sunderland apparently
Apologies for going off topic but I cannot for the life of me, understand why MON didn't go for DB when he was £10m (correct me if the price i have quoted is wrong), especially if he was only on circa £30k pw!! We could have matched that easily and could have either won a cup with his fire power or possibly got into the top 4?
Anyway, back to the topic of NRC.....
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He could easily fit into Man U's midfield, as could any half decent midfielder.
He's certainly a better player than Nicky Butt ever was.
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Why does he need to make killer passes? His job is to win the ball, link up play and give it to a claret and blue shirt - something he has done increasingly impressively as the season has gone on because this manager believes in him.
I would hope Delph would be able play that role more impressively over time but he is not ready yet. In the meantime, I would certainly want Reo-Coker to stay.
Why does he need to make a killer pass ? His role is supposed to be versatile. He is a professional footballer. And we have one of the most prolific scorers in the prem waiting to recieve the pass. And his link up play is part of that. Bent has got a claret and blue shirt on .......
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I'll be gutted if Coker leaves.Always puts a shift in
Very much agreed. I like him, he plays like a fan would
He certainly tends to pass and shoot like someone who's just won a competition to play central midfield.
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We dont have anyone else who can do what he does,i agree that his passing is poor,but he was never bought to spray out passes like Sid,his job is to hassle,tackle and pass 10 -20 yards to someone who can create something. I like the fact that he's vocal and a bit of a leader,something we've lacked since Laursen retired.
But if he's looking at a 10-15 grand a week pay rise,then he can go fcuk himself,he won't get the chance to play at a club like ours again.
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He comes in for a lot of unwarranted stick, but if we could get better in I wouldn't be distraught to see him depart.
He's very good at making a nuisance of himself and disrupting the opposition, and he also has decent strength and a good turn of pace. But if we could get all that and someone a bit more competent on the ball, it should be a case of 'thanks for the effort and goodbye.'
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With a certain remit (get the ball off those guys, give it to one of our guys who is standing very near to you), he's a real asset, and plays a very useful role very effectively.
I hope he stays.
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Lest we forget, he's been the victim of the previous incumbents folly. He came in and we were expecting a bit of the young eager box attacking leadership we saw at West Ham, well before the season that saw them just beat the drop. Then he was forced to be the Makele type holding player in a 5 man midfield to accommodate Petrov in the hope Stan would be the 15 goal a season midfielder he was at Celtic, After dropping that cash MON was pretty much committed to playing him week in week out, because,well, he wouldn't rotate and name the same 11 week in and out. Stan's form at the time was well shocking to say the least and NRC pretty much said in the papers that Martin was trying to make him a player he wasn't (I'm all for growth but still, was Zola ever forced to learn the intricacies of centre half?)
Then we have the Barry saga, we'd pretty much resigned ourselves to losing Gareth to the Scousers, and then MON started playing hardball with Benitez and Barry went nowhere. Then before Liverpool came back in the summer the ever transfer astute Martin brought in Sidwell as Barry's replacement hoping the lightening in a bottle of his Reading days could be recaptured (and by hell all it took was a move to Fulham?!)
While all this was going on, the general tactic was trap the ball, quick release to Ash or Milner out wide for them to whip in a cross for big John to head or fast as fuck Gabby to latch onto, goal or not the centre of the pitch was futile to be in as very rarely a cutback or pass came their way, to go to the trouble of running to the edge of the box in the centre was a fools errand and thankless task as they trundled back dejected goal or not.
Factor in the fact that Ashley did ever so well at the top of a midfield diamond for the last 10 games of a few seasons back and a lot of folks were clambering for that to be the system. To give MON his credit he had the diligence to bring in Downing (who didn't really set the world on fire with his first 5 months of competitive football) but it freed up the wing play and caused for some merry havoc when our wingers switched sides, this also accommodated Jimmy Milner being put in the middle after Barry said goodbye and we were poised to have a Villa equivalent of what Stevie G did so well for the scousers.
Over the course of a couple of seasons NRC soon became the forgotten man of Villa park. He communicates well on the pitch, gives it to the ref when we're hard done by and sticks up for whomever is being manhandled by the opposition. He runs his socks off, tackles and harasses like a terrier, gets into good positions and gives it his all, the very definition of one of those heart on sleeve type players. This of course is too good to be true, his passes lack venom, don't always hit their intended target and when he does get the ball and surges forward on the occasional run, we get on our feet to watch him power through and he either kicks it straight to the opposition or gets mugged while standing still. He's an asset, he'll just never set the world on fire.
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I've not been a fan of his until the last few months. His effort & industry are top notch & he's improved his passing & first touch.
Can't see where he's going to go though.
Everton? Stoke?
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Why does he need to make killer passes? His job is to win the ball, link up play and give it to a claret and blue shirt - something he has done increasingly impressively as the season has gone on because this manager believes in him.
I would hope Delph would be able play that role more impressively over time but he is not ready yet. In the meantime, I would certainly want Reo-Coker to stay.
Why does he need to make a killer pass ? His role is supposed to be versatile. He is a professional footballer. And we have one of the most prolific scorers in the prem waiting to recieve the pass. And his link up play is part of that. Bent has got a claret and blue shirt on .......
Do De Jong, Mikel, Song play killer passes? It's not their job. They are there to win the ball for the team and give it to more talented players. Very few midfield players can do it all or need to - you just need the right components to make a midfield work.
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No surprise to read the usual bollocks from the hard of thinking about his passing. A visit to either the Guardian Chalkboards or the opticans is highly recommended.
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'No surprise to read the usual bollocks from the hard of thinking about his passing. A visit to either the Guardian Chalkboards or the opticans is highly recommended.'
So his passing is an asset then?
It has improved recently but has been sloppy at best for the majority of his time at Villa. A professional footballer should be able to pass it 10 yards, he often struggled to do that. I like him but I cant defend the indefendable.
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No surprise to read the usual bollocks from the hard of thinking about his passing. A visit to either the Guardian Chalkboards or the opticans is highly recommended.
yes amazes me how people can't see how good his pass completion always is, but then Mon disliked him so he will never be any good in some's eyes.
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Hard to believe that a Centre Midfielder hasn't scored a goal at his home ground for the team he's played for over the past 4 years.
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Always rated him for what he is, rather than what people think he should be.
Defensive midfielder, bags of energy, closes the ball down very well, hustles the opposition, breaks up play, goes at it for 90 minutes. Basically a player that plays in a 3 and says to the other two, I got you covered now go and play.
We just don't have "those" other two, which is our big problem when trying to open teams up.
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What a silly post
Just because he is not a "world star" does not mean he is not a good player.
Put it this way, would Darren Bent get in Man U's side ahead of Rooney and Hernandez
Probably not -
Oh - he must be crap then !
Granted, NRC is not as good a midfielder as Lionel Messi - but we haven't got Lionel Messi have we - nor are we likely to !
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I like him but I cant defend the indefendable.
You can't even spell it, nevermind defend it.
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What a silly post
Just because he is not a "world star" does not mean he is not a good player.
Put it this way, would Darren Bent get in Man U's side ahead of Rooney and Hernandez
Probably not -
Oh - he must be crap then !
Granted, NRC is not as good a midfielder as Lionel Messi - but we haven't got Lionel Messi have we - nor are we likely to !
Read the topic. I have not mentioned "world Stars" and did not say he was not a "good player" and i am not comparing him to Lionel Messi. Use the points in the topic. This is called a debate .........
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No, I have read the post, it states he couldn't get into the top 6 so why do people think he is great.
You are right, he wouldn't get in the top 6
Man U - Park plays in his position - for me Park has been player of the season and deserved it far more than Parker
Chelsea have Essien
Man City have Yaya Toure - who is so good he was the mainstay of the Barca side
Arsenal - well they actually lack a player and I even think NRC is better than their defensive midfielders
Spurs - Modric - who is now wanted by Man U - enough said
So, because NRC is not as good as maybe the top 5 players in the world in that position - you don't think we should appreciate him ?.
Bit of a coincidence that under MON , Gerard or even between the two , and McAllister - our best results have come in when he is in the side - bit wierd don't you think ?
I am not saying he is Lionel Messi - but neither is Sun-Ji Park - but you take Park out the Man U side and see what happens.
NRC is a very very very good player in what he does, and what he does is not found very often, and those players who do it well, cost a bloody fortune.
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No surprise to read the usual bollocks from the hard of thinking about his passing. A visit to either the Guardian Chalkboards or the opticans is highly recommended.
You are right, his passing is extremely adequate. He's up there with the best when it comes to moving the ball 3 yards to either the left or right, he's top class when it comes to receiving the ball from wide, turning and pushing it back to the centre half. It's more than 2 years since he completed a forward pass but then you can't have everything. <wink>
He's good at what he does but that job is extremely limited and while I'm more than happy to keep him in the squad, at the right price, I want us to have better options than him next season.
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No, I have read the post, it states he couldn't get into the top 6 so why do people think he is great.
You are right, he wouldn't get in the top 6
Man U - Park plays in his position - for me Park has been player of the season and deserved it far more than Parker
Chelsea have Essien
Man City have Yaya Toure - who is so good he was the mainstay of the Barca side
Arsenal - well they actually lack a player and I even think NRC is better than their defensive midfielders
Spurs - Modric - who is now wanted by Man U - enough said
So, because NRC is not as good as maybe the top 5 players in the world in that position - you don't think we should appreciate him ?.
Bit of a coincidence that under MON , Gerard or even between the two , and McAllister - our best results have come in when he is in the side - bit wierd don't you think ?
I am not saying he is Lionel Messi - but neither is Sun-Ji Park - but you take Park out the Man U side and see what happens.
NRC is a very very very good player in what he does, and what he does is not found very often, and those players who do it well, cost a bloody fortune.
so what club do you think he will go to then ? if he is as good as you think, there shouldnt be any shortage of takers from some decent clubs if what you say is true
because i think if he leaves he will go to a lower half of the league club or even a championship team, which is about his level,
but we will see, time will tell
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No surprise to read the usual bollocks from the hard of thinking about his passing. A visit to either the Guardian Chalkboards or the opticans is highly recommended.
You are right, his passing is extremely adequate. He's up there with the best when it comes to moving the ball 3 yards to either the left or right, he's top class when it comes to receiving the ball from wide, turning and pushing it back to the centre half. It's more than 2 years since he completed a forward pass but then you can't have everything. <wink>
I think you're confusing him with Petrov, Chris.
www.specsavers.co.uk
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What club do I think he will go to.
Personally, I hope none !!!
Now Young is going, and probably Petrov, I can't think of any other player I would like as Club Captain than NRC.
I really think people on here think it is fantasy football. Put Messi, Ronaldo, Giggs and Silva in midfield and it would be superb. Sorry, football isn't like that.
I've just seen that post above - he can pass it three yards, he can square it, etc. wink.
Yeah ! - you can't know a lot about football because EVERY side NEEDS those players. Modern day, Park and Man U
Or go back, for every Morley and Sid you had Des Bremner for every David Platt and Tony Daley you had Ray Houghton, for every Paul Merson you had Ian Taylor doing their dirty work.
I seriously find it wierd people don't see this.
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You watched a different Ian Taylor to me - he was more attacking than any central midfielder we have playing for us currently.
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What club do I think he will go to.
Personally, I hope none !!!
Now Young is going, and probably Petrov, I can't think of any other player I would like as Club Captain than NRC.
I really think people on here think it is fantasy football. Put Messi, Ronaldo, Giggs and Silva in midfield and it would be superb. Sorry, football isn't like that.
I've just seen that post above - he can pass it three yards, he can square it, etc. wink.
Yeah ! - you can't know a lot about football because EVERY side NEEDS those players. Modern day, Park and Man U
Or go back, for every Morley and Sid you had Des Bremner for every David Platt and Tony Daley you had Ray Houghton, for every Paul Merson you had Ian Taylor doing their dirty work.
I seriously find it wierd people don't see this.
Completely agree Paul think we will really miss him if he goes.I really hope he stays
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So do I.
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God I give up !!!
So are you telling me Ian Taylor would have displaced Paul Scholes in the Man U side , or Denis Bergkamp in the Arsenal side, or (trying to think who was in the top 4 in 2000) - who cares , you know what I mean.
The title says , and I quote "Reo Coker would not get in any of the top 6 teams, so why do fans think he is great"
And my response is - I don't give a toss whether he would or not, he is a bloody good player who we, at this moment, need.
God sake, it is a stupid arguament - Pepe Reina is only considered the 4th best Spanish goalie - is he crap as well !
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So are you telling me Ian Taylor would have displaced Paul Scholes in the Man U side , or Denis Bergkamp in the Arsenal side, or (trying to think who was in the top 4 in 2000) - who cares , you know what I mean.
What the hell are you blathering on about?
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You watched a different Ian Taylor to me - he was more attacking than any central midfielder we have playing for us currently.
For sure. Just look at how many headed goals he got in open play, which is a good sign . A genuine box to box player.
Speaking of headed goals by midfield players, since ITVP left, we have been bereft in that department. Petrov has one, I think. Barry missed bucket loads, and is still doing it for Man City. Sidwell was another culprit.
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I've seen some odd arguments on here over the years but comparing Reo Coker to Ji Sung Park takes some beating.
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Dave ?????
This isn't hard is it !
The title says "NRC wouldn't get in the top 6 sides, so why do fans think he is great"
I then say, for every "footballer" you need someone doing the hard work for them. I quote for every Morley, there is a Bremner (doing the work) for every Platt there is a Houghton (doing the dirty work - although I actually think , now I think about it the "dirty player in that side" was Paul Birch - so even more so then
I then said , for Merson - he had Taylor.
Someone said Taylor was a better footballer and more attacking.
So I am basically proving my arguament - and you have just proved it for me.
So you are saying "if he couldn't get in a top 6 team - why would we want him"
So lets look at Taylor. I cant remember exactly as it is now 10 years ago, but lets see if Ian Taylor would have got in the top 6.
Ian Taylors position in 2000
Man U - Scholes , Arsenal - Bergkamp, Chelsea - Zola etc...etc...
So Ian Taylor wouldn't have got in the top teams 10 years ago , didn't mean he wasn't a good player did it !
Ths is seriously a ridiculous arguament, so I aint even gonna post in it again.
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I'm not a fan but I suppose the fact that he's been a part of a side that has finished top 10 four years running makes your argument a bit redundant.
You're not a fan of anyone tbf.
Coker has been great this season. Really good to see Houllier get him playing regulary again. I love his energy and enthusiasm for the game. He's not the most skillful player but he works hard, not afraid to put a tackle in and just generally keeps the midfield solid - he's improved lots this season. Once again I thought he played really well yesterday.
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Ths is seriously a ridiculous arguament
You said it.
I said that you comparing Reo-Coker's role to the one that Ian Taylor used to play for us was nuts.
You then started comparing Ian Taylor to Dennis Bergkamp.
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What club do I think he will go to.
Personally, I hope none !!!
Now Young is going, and probably Petrov, I can't think of any other player I would like as Club Captain than NRC.
I really think people on here think it is fantasy football. Put Messi, Ronaldo, Giggs and Silva in midfield and it would be superb. Sorry, football isn't like that.
I've just seen that post above - he can pass it three yards, he can square it, etc. wink.
Yeah ! - you can't know a lot about football because EVERY side NEEDS those players. Modern day, Park and Man U
Or go back, for every Morley and Sid you had Des Bremner for every David Platt and Tony Daley you had Ray Houghton, for every Paul Merson you had Ian Taylor doing their dirty work.
I seriously find it wierd people don't see this.
i really dont know why you keep going on about Messi and ronaldo etc, this is about NRC, and how he isnt good enough for teams in the top half of the prem which is why those sort of teams wont be banging the door down for him,
dont forget he's on a free, and if he leaves he'l end up at Wolves /Blackburn/Blackpool etc because thats how good he is,
its no good you trying to turn him into the next Des Bremner, he aint even the next Mark Draper, and no where near as good as Ian Taylor
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Stan's form at the time was well shocking to say the least and NRC pretty much said in the papers that Martin was trying to make him a player he wasn't
That sentence sums up, in my opinion, why NRC never really established himself in the team under MON to the extent that he should have. Until reading your post I was not aware that he had made such comments in the press regarding a team mate (Stan), which is clearly out of order.
I am reminded of the league match at home to Newcastle in early February 2008, halfway through NRC's first season and halfway through Stan's second season. NRC spent the whole of the first-half berating Stan at every opportunity. Yes, Stan was having a difficult spell of form but you'd have thought NRC was the captain or even the manager the way he was having a go at him. Stan looked totally disheartened and devoid of confidence, was substituted at half-time and, yes, we went on to win comfortably with Carew's hat-trick but Stan was then taken out of the firing line for the next five games (only one of which we won).
Two weeks after Stan was recalled to the starting line up he scored THAT goal at Derby; his confidence returned and he went on to be our player of the season in 2008-09.
NRC had the famous training ground spat with O'Neill in September 2009 which by all accounts was linked to him having a go at another - junior - player which, understandably, O'Neill did not take kindly to. My view is that NRC spent too much of the early years of his Villa career trying to boss others around and criticise, instead of concentrating on his own game; a bit like AY this season.
The irony to all this is that with the central midfield having been chopped and changed for the majority of this season, NRC and Stan have each played in seven of the last eight games; our 'mini-season' as announced by Houllier prior to the Everton game, with these matches yielding four wins, three draws and just one defeat. They have played very well together and, along with Bent's goals, are the prime reason why we finished the season so strongly.
I have always been a fan of Stan, but NRC has certainly gone up in my estimation over the course of this season and I would be sorry to see him leave.
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What club do I think he will go to.
Personally, I hope none !!!
Now Young is going, and probably Petrov, I can't think of any other player I would like as Club Captain than NRC.
I really think people on here think it is fantasy football. Put Messi, Ronaldo, Giggs and Silva in midfield and it would be superb. Sorry, football isn't like that.
I've just seen that post above - he can pass it three yards, he can square it, etc. wink.
Yeah ! - you can't know a lot about football because EVERY side NEEDS those players. Modern day, Park and Man U
Or go back, for every Morley and Sid you had Des Bremner for every David Platt and Tony Daley you had Ray Houghton, for every Paul Merson you had Ian Taylor doing their dirty work.
I seriously find it wierd people don't see this.
yeah but those players also provided at least some modicum of attacking threat. i like nige, great attitude, works hard etc, but he a pretty average footballer. maybe if he was absolutely standout defensively, a brick wall infront of the defence then his attacking shortcomings would be irrelevent. but hes not, hes good, but not amazing. i think you need more than "get the ball and play it 5 yards square" these days, you need some amount of 2 way play if you are a CM. im not asking for defence splitting passes, but maybe an attempt to run with the ball into the opposition half, take a shot at goal once in a while etc. you gotta keep the opposition respecting CM as a threat. we struggle to break down teams who sit back because neither NRC or petrov provide any threat. the opposition can just ignore them and double up on downing, ash or bent, or force us to bang in aimless long balls. NRC has i think just 1 goal and 2 assists in his villa career!
saying all that, i would keep him as a squad player. he is useful in certain situations and if/when we play a midfield 3 his limitations are not as much of a problem. however, if we are going to be playing 442, then he is just not good enough to do that. theres also no way we should be giving him 50k a week or whatever he supposedly wants. he's not exactly a unique player, theres lots of hardworking, tough tackling but technically poor players out there who we can get cheaper than that.
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I said I was not going to post again, but will add one last sentence before I go in the bath !
You say he is not Mark Draper never mind others - can I add
"in your opinion" coz I tell you what, there are 1000's out there who don't think the same as you, including me.
NRC in team - 3 fantastic years
NRC out team - seem to lose, go backwards fast
NRC back in team - lose 1 in 9
Seems a pattern to me
Goodnight all - early night for me !
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If Reo-Coker is happy to sign a continuation of his current contract and understand that he's not going to play every game then I'm quite happy for him to stick around.
In the meantime we can have Makoun, Delph and AN other in our central midfield with Nige as a useful backup.
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No, I have read the post, it states he couldn't get into the top 6 so why do people think he is great.
You are right, he wouldn't get in the top 6
Man U - Park plays in his position - for me Park has been player of the season and deserved it far more than Parker
Chelsea have Essien
Man City have Yaya Toure - who is so good he was the mainstay of the Barca side
Arsenal - well they actually lack a player and I even think NRC is better than their defensive midfielders
Spurs - Modric - who is now wanted by Man U - enough said
So, because NRC is not as good as maybe the top 5 players in the world in that position - you don't think we should appreciate him ?.
Bit of a coincidence that under MON , Gerard or even between the two , and McAllister - our best results have come in when he is in the side - bit wierd don't you think ?
I am not saying he is Lionel Messi - but neither is Sun-Ji Park - but you take Park out the Man U side and see what happens.
NRC is a very very very good player in what he does, and what he does is not found very often, and those players who do it well, cost a bloody fortune.
Is it me or have you just listed random players from different positions here?
Park plays out wide for Man Utd, not in his position.
Toure plays as their attacking midfielder.
Modric is their ball player, not a ball winner.
For what its worth, I think every team needs a NRC. He does the horrible stuff and he definitely has the right mental attributes. He is a winner, a leader and is a very intelligent and grounded bloke. People talk about him not being worth 50k a week (which I agree with), but to replace him would cost £6-8mill transfer fee plus 40k a week anyway. I would prefer us to keep him!
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I said I was not going to post again, but will add one last sentence before I go in the bath !
You say he is not Mark Draper never mind others - can I add
"in your opinion" coz I tell you what, there are 1000's out there who don't think the same as you, including me.
NRC in team - 3 fantastic years
NRC out team - seem to lose, go backwards fast
NRC back in team - lose 1 in 9
Seems a pattern to me
Goodnight all - early night for me !
i knew i could make you post again ;)
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I said I was not going to post again, but will add one last sentence before I go in the bath !
You say he is not Mark Draper never mind others - can I add
"in your opinion" coz I tell you what, there are 1000's out there who don't think the same as you, including me.
NRC in team - 3 fantastic years
NRC out team - seem to lose, go backwards fast
NRC back in team - lose 1 in 9
Seems a pattern to me
Goodnight all - early night for me !
i knew i could make you post again ;)
Love it John e. Some of Pauls comparisons justified an "early bath" ............
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NRC in team - 3 fantastic years
Petrov and Barry then Petrov and Milner - 3 good years.
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I hope Coker stays.
He should being feeling well settled in the midlands and all contretemps are a distant memory.
Having just turned 27, he is coming into his prime and I could see next season being far and away the best of his career.
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He is an improving player. I thought his game last Sunday was the best I have seen him play. If you buy a replacement for him it could be another Sidwell. He is worth keeping to offer the manager the option of bringing him on to lock in the points when we are leading but tiring. Would he make the top six teams? Depends who the top six are, their suspensions, their injuries, their games, their travelling, their tactics. Odd question.
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NRC in team - 3 fantastic years
Petrov and Barry then Petrov and Milner - 3 good years.
Indeed. He only started 6 league games last season, all in 2009.
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He is showing the benefit of a run of games in the 1st team. He isn't a complete midfielder, his game is lacking in some areas. What he does well is very good and paired with: 1. a more visionary distribitor, and: 2. someone comfortable as a linkman, he could be a good buffer for the CBs and someone to hassle the opposition CM. As others have said it will be cheaper to keep a player who's capabilities/frailtieswe know than take a punt on an unknown quantity. There will be many changes over the summer, some stability would be nice.
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Man United - Fletcher and Anderson
Chelsea - Essien and Mikel
Man City - De Jong and Barry
Arsenal - Song and Diaby
Tottenham - Sandro and Pallacios
Liverpool - Lucas
Most of these guys are defensively minded and seldom play a killer pass preferring to break up play. Most of them are also seen as important parts of their team. Whilst most of them are better than NRC they play the same role and have similar limitations. Last season even Barcelona had a player who did that role in Yaya Toure (Until his surprise deployment as an attacking mid at Man City) and to an extent Busquetes does that for them now. Having a Reo Coker (or maybe someone better than him) allows us to play more footballers as he can be like the kid in the playground who protects the little kids from the bullies. Like I said you don't want a team of Reo Cokers but you do need one.
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Like I said you don't want a team of Reo Cokers but you do need one.
I don't think anybody is saying we shouldn't play with a defensive midfielder.
It's whether or not that midfielder should be Reo-Coker or not.
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He's not a world beater but he has improved a lot. We won't get any fee for him, petrov looks a bit spent, delph and makoun unproven. It's the play it safe option. With maximum stability this summer I think we're well set for next year. I don't want a whole load more upheaval
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He has been pissed around more than most players at VP. Havent heard him wingeing to the press, he tried to lump MON so another mark in his favour. After the top few teams he is the best at what he does, better than Mikel for example. When given a run in the team he has been pretty consistant. If we lose him we are going to have to spend a lot of money to replace him. Every team needs a NRC type player I hope he stays because there is going to be a lot of changes and having a senior pro who knows the club and effective in his position will help the re-building process.
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Cheaper to give him 50k a week and keep him for 3 years than let him leave and sign someone of equal ability for 6-8 million and pay them the same amount. He is effective, and while there are technically better players out there, there are few more effective and passionate. He is a good leader on the field, and IMO is integral to the way we are trying to play, despite being the most limited on the ball.
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I have been undecided until the last few weeks, what with his form and when you see Ozzjim's post above it makes perfect sense to keep him. Unless we have loads of money to spend and more to offer on a European front I can't see us getting anyone better than him. He seems happy here and gives us his all. Sign him up.
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Any chance someone could sort out the title of this thread?
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Like I said you don't want a team of Reo Cokers but you do need one.
I don't think anybody is saying we shouldn't play with a defensive midfielder.
It's whether or not that midfielder should be Reo-Coker or not.
My point is related more to the argument of the OP that NRC lacks the ability to play the killer ball and is a limited footballer. That is something I'd accuse pretty much all defensive midfielders of. It's not something limited to NRC. I do think some people underrate his limited talents. If we can find someone better then I'll happily wave him off into the sunset but I do think that is harder than some feel it would be.
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Always thought NRC's signing was a strange one. played well for us in his 1st season but then when milner arrived he didn't have a position really- you can't play a centre midfield where there's only two and one of them is NRC - well not if your want to win anything.. If GH changes formation this summer then i can see him having a future if he decides to stay. Hopefully with Young's departure we'll get away from the wingers
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Think Reo Coker is a very effective player. Utterly stupid letting him go on a Bosman, give him 50k a week and if we decide to sell him next summer we will easily make back the additional wages in what another side will pay upfront for him. He has earned himself a better deal with his performances this season anyway.
His job isnt to score goals or make killer passes. He has really improved this season with the ball at his feet actually. He does a similar job to De Jong and is pretty good at it. Great stamina, great tackler, we just need to find players, namely better footballers, to play alongside him. Away from home against better sides I would always have him in the team. Id have him in the team anyway next to Delph. Thought their display at Bolton was the best display from our midfield pairing this season. Was a great balance to it. Add the Makoun from Old Trafford to the mix and you have a fine trio. But sure we will probably go out and spend 5m replacing him with a similar player who will take 12 months to settle in.
On the top 6, Id argue he could hold his own with the likes of Mikel, Lucas, Song, Fletcher, Palacious, Barry. Id prefer him to all of the above actually. De Jong is more effective than him alright but Id argue De Jong is the one of the most effective players in world football.
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I say we should keep him unless we can get an Ettienne Capoue or another 6'+ dm with some technical ability also for cheap on low wages.
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i dont know why we have to pay him £50k a week,
no one else will
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Any chance someone could sort out the title of this thread?
I think he is g.
Da da da.....g..g..g..g.
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Man United - Fletcher and Anderson
Chelsea - Essien and Mikel
Man City - De Jong and Barry
Arsenal - Song and Diaby
Tottenham - Sandro and Pallacios
Liverpool - Lucas
Most of these guys are defensively minded and seldom play a killer pass preferring to break up play... are better than NRC they play the same role and have similar limitations.
Know what you're trying to say but actually all the players you've listed can play the killer pass! NRC seldom tries to play the killer-pass: he knows his own limitations, I guess.
The question in my mind is whether any decent team can afford to have players who cannot make incisive passes when the opportunity presents itself. Perhaps our limitations in the goals-scoring dept over the last 5 seasons are in part due to the fact that not all our players can take the defence-opening option when it's there.
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did we not sign Macoun as replacement for NRC ?
or at least he is a player in that kind of mold ie combative, OTT tackles, gets sent of a lot, small,
with Macoun having the obvious advantage of actually of being somewhere near to the ball after he's touched it first time, and can also pick a pass
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Any chance someone could sort out the title of this thread?
i actually like the title of the thread, i think its g
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Think Reo Coker is a very effective player. Utterly stupid letting him go on a Bosman, give him 50k a week and if we decide to sell him next summer we will easily make back the additional wages in what another side will pay upfront for him. He has earned himself a better deal with his performances this season anyway.
It's not so simple, though, and you hinted why.
Another side will pay money up front for him in a year or so if he signs another contract with us, but as things stand now, with him being a free agent, he can go somewhere for his 50k a week AND get a big upfront payment to himself from his new club, so why would he take the new deal with us and let us cop for the payout in a year's time?
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It's a shame that it's taken Reo-Coker nearly four years to accept the fact that he's not a technically gifted footballer. Since he's come back into the first team he's kept his game very simple but very effective. He tackles well and breaks up play (which has always been a strength), but now rarely gives the ball away with a careless pass which was an annoying feature of his game. He's content now to win the ball and pass it short and accurately to a team mate. I'd like him to stay.
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did we not sign Macoun as replacement for NRC ?
or at least he is a player in that kind of mold ie combative, OTT tackles, gets sent of a lot, small,
with Macoun having the obvious advantage of actually of being somewhere near to the ball after he's touched it first time, and can also pick a pass
The only flaw in that is that Makoun must weigh about 7 stone and can't tackle.
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Never worked out what the g stood for Was it good or going WW ?
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I was surprised in Makoun in that sense. I like the way he plays, simple, short passes, keeps the ball moving, but I'd expected him to be more combative.
I don't think he's put in more than a couple of tackles whenever I've seen him play
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I was surprised in Makoun in that sense. I like the way he plays, simple, short passes, keeps the ball moving, but I'd expected him to be more combative.
I don't think he's put in more than a couple of tackles whenever I've seen him play
The modern defensive midfielder is less about tackling as he is about taking up the right positions, tracking runs and 'staying on your feet'. With a genuine holding player alongside him I think Makoun will do this fine and we'd then benefit from his other atributes as a deep lying playmaker.
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I was surprised in Makoun in that sense. I like the way he plays, simple, short passes, keeps the ball moving, but I'd expected him to be more combative.
I don't think he's put in more than a couple of tackles whenever I've seen him play
Agreed and of those two tackles, he was sent off for one of them.
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I think Makoun would actually compliment NRC very well in a midfield three. It's the third (attacking) one I think is trickier to identify. I had hoped it would be Ireland. Maybe Bannan?
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Delph likes a tackle (or a mistimed one to be more accurate!)
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I realise he's a centre half but I wouldn't mind Clark being given a go there. Reads the game very well, understands the defensive side, can tackle and can play a bit. In fact, if GH goes, I might apply for the job myself.
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Clark would do great there Mark. In fact I liked him when he played midfield this season, and in a 3 I think he could be very effective, and get 7-8 goals.
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Think Reo Coker is a very effective player. Utterly stupid letting him go on a Bosman, give him 50k a week and if we decide to sell him next summer we will easily make back the additional wages in what another side will pay upfront for him. He has earned himself a better deal with his performances this season anyway.
It's not so simple, though, and you hinted why.
Another side will pay money up front for him in a year or so if he signs another contract with us, but as things stand now, with him being a free agent, he can go somewhere for his 50k a week AND get a big upfront payment to himself from his new club, so why would he take the new deal with us and let us cop for the payout in a year's time?
I think he wants to stay, he could have signed a pre contract with any other side from Jan 1st this season as far as I'm aware.
Money wise, yeah he should probably leave. But the club should sign him up on the basis of finance alone aswell - as if he is crap next season we could probably still sell him for 5m or so. If its another 10k a week he wants - 500,000 a year extra - we will cover than 10 times over with the transfer fee when we sell him.
To be honest I think its a no brainer.
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Never worked out what the g stood for Was it good or going WW ?
Shall we make it "gay" and start a whole new thread ? ..........
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Think Reo Coker is a very effective player. Utterly stupid letting him go on a Bosman, give him 50k a week and if we decide to sell him next summer we will easily make back the additional wages in what another side will pay upfront for him. He has earned himself a better deal with his performances this season anyway.
It's not so simple, though, and you hinted why.
Another side will pay money up front for him in a year or so if he signs another contract with us, but as things stand now, with him being a free agent, he can go somewhere for his 50k a week AND get a big upfront payment to himself from his new club, so why would he take the new deal with us and let us cop for the payout in a year's time?
I think he wants to stay, he could have signed a pre contract with any other side from Jan 1st this season as far as I'm aware.
Money wise, yeah he should probably leave. But the club should sign him up on the basis of finance alone aswell - as if he is crap next season we could probably still sell him for 5m or so. If its another 10k a week he wants - 500,000 a year extra - we will cover than 10 times over with the transfer fee when we sell him.
To be honest I think its a no brainer.
You're assuming it's another 10K he wants per week - i saw on another site a suggestion of 80k a week he's after - if this is the case then i can't imagine we'll be that accomodating, and neither should we.
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Hard to believe that a Centre Midfielder hasn't scored a goal at his home ground for the team he's played for over the past 4 years.
Petrov's only got two Villa Park goals hasn't he?
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Think Reo Coker is a very effective player. Utterly stupid letting him go on a Bosman, give him 50k a week and if we decide to sell him next summer we will easily make back the additional wages in what another side will pay upfront for him. He has earned himself a better deal with his performances this season anyway.
It's not so simple, though, and you hinted why.
Another side will pay money up front for him in a year or so if he signs another contract with us, but as things stand now, with him being a free agent, he can go somewhere for his 50k a week AND get a big upfront payment to himself from his new club, so why would he take the new deal with us and let us cop for the payout in a year's time?
I think he wants to stay, he could have signed a pre contract with any other side from Jan 1st this season as far as I'm aware.
Money wise, yeah he should probably leave. But the club should sign him up on the basis of finance alone aswell - as if he is crap next season we could probably still sell him for 5m or so. If its another 10k a week he wants - 500,000 a year extra - we will cover than 10 times over with the transfer fee when we sell him.
To be honest I think its a no brainer.
You're assuming it's another 10K he wants per week - i saw on another site a suggestion of 80k a week he's after - if this is the case then i can't imagine we'll be that accomodating, and neither should we.
Plus if you give in to NRC, then a few other players want to have a comparative level of wages, and in the end it could cost you another £100k a week to keep four or five players happy. The clues in the phrase 'wage structure' - change one element, like NRC, and suddenly everyone wants an uplift.