Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sonlyme on May 23, 2011, 10:23:40 PM
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So there it is.
A season that began with the desertion of one mananger, then stumbled through the chaos of another two, with players going off the boil and relegation looming large around B6, ends with Villa finishing well inside the top half on 48 points.
Looking back - ninth in the premiership is no mean feat given the season we have had. And although it has been hard going it has told us something - but not about the team - or about the owner - or about the manager and the coaches. It has told us something about ourselves.
Far too many of us are quick to jump on the team's back during the hard times. The shameful antics of some may have got them in the paper but they weren't helping the club with their negative banners - they were helping themselves. 'Houllier Out' came the cry - blaming a man who had just arrived for the ageing and complacency of the club's senior pros.
It was asserted that Gerard Houllier was a fool who had 'lost the dressing room'. Well thank God for Gerard say I - because it was Gerard who convinced the mighty Darren Bent to come to Villa Park - and what a difference his quality has made and will make.
The flames of discontent were fanned by a gleeful media - the Birmingham Mail displayed its usual lack of class with slanted sourceless sniping. The Mail used to employ journalists - then again - it used to sell papers.
Once Gerard signed Bent and fell ill the attack changed - it was apparently Gary McAllister that was the problem, not Gerard. He was hated by the players said the 'insiders' and banner-painters. GMac was 'destroying' the club with his petty rules and attitude they said. Which is remarkable - as since April 16th we have lost only one game - the 2-1 defeat to Albion - another game which should have been a victory had we had a defence that could defend.
Did anyone else notice resentment or lack of motivation at the Emirates against Arsenal? Or against Liverpool on the last day? I didn't.
What I did notice was a slowly gelling forward line that could become something special - something very special. The control, passing, and movement of Villa's attacking unit was the best it has been in a long time. At last we have a real centre-forward - and if we can match that with a defence of a similar quality - then the future is bright indeed.
So I hope we can keep our heads as Villa fans and see the change that is taking place. The tired old faces of O'Neill's regime will go - and newer fresher faces will replace them. A new defensive unit and we can hold on to the good stuff our attack does.
GH and GMac have come ninth in the premier league in their first, not even full, season when even St Martin could only manage eleventh. On the downside - Villa conceded 21 goals in the last 15 minutes of games - only Blackpool did worse than that - and most tellingly - Villa dropped 26 points from winning positions this season - more than any other club - add 26 to 48 - take a look at the league table - and tell me - Houllier and McAllister out? Maybe they are awful - maybe they haven't got a clue - but could we at least give them a full pre-season to see if our prejudices about them are correct? Maybe even get behind the club and be positive? Or is that asking too much?
UTV
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Always gonna be a transitional season - I think we'd improve vastly if Gerard is given another year, but his health will likely mean otherwise. My only fear now is that due to said likely managerial changes next season will be another one of of these transitional stages.
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top post.
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Very good.
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Yes a great post, however there is so much that has been glossed over, the antics at Anfield the surrender at Eastlands and some diabolical decisions regarding selection and substitutions.
Forgive me please if i still have a difficulty embracing a new dawn with a bloke with that has a potentialy life threatening condition and a number 2 who thinks it is a good idea to introduce Pires to make the numbers up in relegation scrap, and says we will start working on the defence in pre-season. IF RL decides to stick with the current regime and backs them through the summer then so be it. It wont change the fact that I support Aston Villa.
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And off we go again...
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Good post I also think that if GH does come back then we have a chance of doing something special next season.
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the 2-1 defeat to Albion - another game which should have been a victory had we had a defence that could defend.
I notice you steer clear of any speculation as to why they couldn't defend.
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Some good points in the post, but also some I strongly disagree with.
Firstly, I never quite get this idea that the points we dropped in the last 15 minutes means they're better then we look? No, it actually adds to the negative of losing those points by an inability to hold a lead. OK, if we can solve that issue then we'll improve, but then that's just basically saying that if we get better we'll climb up the league.
Comparisons to the previous manager's first season are also false as it's two totally different squads. In 2005/2006 we finished 16th and climbed to 11th, this season we've gone from 6th to 9th. Yes, injuries have had a bearing, but to lets look at it in the correct context.
My biggest fear is the need to change the manager once again leaves us with a 'transitional season'. However, I think we might have to accept that.
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I just hope there is a quick decision-I'll get behind whatever that decision is. Gerrard made a lot of his own problems- and I never want to see a repeat of Man CIty again.I much prefer his transfer methods to those of O'Neills though.I want to see a strong Villa team giving it's all on all fronts.Gary Mac has had some unfair beatings on here-we don't actually know how he performs as a coach
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Dreadful season tempered by the signing of Bent (thank you GH and shut the door on your way out) and the Blues going down.
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Dreadful season SAVED by the signing of Bent (thank you GH and shut the door on your way out) and the Blues going down.
There - fixed it for you!
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I just hope there is a quick decision-I'll get behind whatever that decision is. Gerrard made a lot of his own problems- and I never want to see a repeat of Man CIty again.I much prefer his transfer methods to those of O'Neills though.I want to see a strong Villa team giving it's all on all fronts.Gary Mac has had some unfair beatings on here-we don't actually know how he performs as a coach
have to admit i wasn't happy with GMac in charge. nothing logical about why i thought that way, just a gut feeling. He's done ok in my book, better than i expected but being a great coach doesn't make you a great manager or vice-versa. There's loads of coaches who have been credited with playing key roles in a clubs success but failing miserably once they get the top job.
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The shameful antics of some may have got them in the paper but they weren't helping the club with their negative banners
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Hmmmmm did you mention the shameful antics of GH at Eastlands?
or his Anfield Love in?
Bizarre subsitutions?
Playing players out of position?
Signing a 37 year old cripple and having him chauffer driven up from London everyday whilst sending BB on loan?
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Dreadful season SAVED by the signing of Bent (thank you GH and shut the door on your way out) and the Blues going down.
There - fixed it for you!
No I dont think SAVED is correct. Just cast your mind back to some of the games and decisions made this season, truly lamentable.
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Hmmmmm did you mention the shameful antics of GH at Eastlands?
or his Anfield Love in?
Certainly no end of season report would be complete without mentioning these.
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I think it's quite telling that in this poor/transitional season, our home record is only one point worse than last season.
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aye. couldn't care less what his feelings are towards liverpool. Like a new manager is going to be in love with aston villa or whether that makes any difference to his ability to manage.
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I think RL needs to make a decision this week regarding does he keep GH or does he retire him.
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aye. couldn't care less what his feelings are towards liverpool. Like a new manager is going to be in love with aston villa or whether that makes any difference to his ability to manage.
So him waving to Liverpool fans and ignoring the Villa fans is okay??
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aye. couldn't care less what his feelings are towards liverpool. Like a new manager is going to be in love with aston villa or whether that makes any difference to his ability to manage.
So him waving to Liverpool fans and ignoring the Villa fans is okay??
I don't care personally. He has some fond memories of his time at liverpool and responded. Some villa fans are too precious imo
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The OP makes some interesting points andf I can see some merit in what GH has achieved, training regimes better, a good signing, Bent in particular, some look promising Makoun and Walker if we can keep him, and some dross, Bradley, Pires.
Having said all that, the PR disasters, health issues that won't go away and lack of adaptability mean we can and should do better.
The Villa need a real top class Manager for the long term. GH ticks neither of these boxes imo.
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I think it's quite telling that in this poor/transitional season, our home record is only one point worse than last season.
That points more to our major flaw under the previous manager than it says anything positive about the new regime. In the 2010/2011 'home league' we're actually 11th.
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Good post, even though i disagree with most of your conclusions
Some things to bear in mind.
We made a top 6 type start to the season (10 pts from 6 games) and we made a top 6 type finish to the season (11 points from 6 games). That's the same level of form this squad achieved for 3 seasons and demonstrates what they are capable of. It was the 2/3s in the middle of the season that was the problem.
You use the point that we dropped so many points from a winning position as a positive in support of Houllier, I think it is a major negative. He was competing against other managers and teams who were able to adjust their tactics during the game and we didn't cope well enough. I've read that Blackburn would have qualified for the CL if games only lasted 45 minutes.
And God bless Darren Bent, he is a great striker but John Carew scored more goals during the same period last season when we were battling in 3 competitions. He could and should have been handled much better than he was.
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There are a few positive things to take from this season. There are quite a few negative things, too.
The worrying thing is that a large number of the negative things were entirely avoidable.
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And God bless Darren Bent, he is a great striker but John Carew scored more goals during the same period last season when we were battling in 3 competitions. He could and should have been handled much better than he was.
Are you including Carew's 5 FA Cup goals against Reading and Palace, of which 3 were penalties?
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I think it's quite telling that in this poor/transitional season, our home record is only one point worse than last season.
That points more to our major flaw under the previous manager than it says anything positive about the new regime. In the 2010/2011 'home league' we're actually 11th.
Absolutely - that's pretty much what I was getting at.
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Carew for much of last season and this season whilst he was with us was a disgrace namely his "I really can't be arsed and will go for a silly backheel to try and score instead of blasting it in the top corner"
Anyway see who he signs for in the Summer that will tell you enough
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Carew for much of last season and this season whilst he was with us was a disgrace namely his "I really can't be arsed and will go for a silly backheel to try and score instead of blasting it in the top corner"
Anyway see who he signs for in the Summer that will tell you enough
Agreed
I used to be a big fan of Carew, but his uninterested slouching was totally not on - regardless of how the manager got on with him.
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A remarkable final position in a season of turmoil, not seen at VP for some years. For me the season was and is haunted by the ghost of Mon, and the subsequent illness to the new manager, Houllier.
Both incidents still hang over the club even now, as does the disgraceful antics of the clubs fans in the early Houllier days, antics that have demeaned our great club, world wide and played right into the hands of the Mon loving pundits, who have little time for Villa even when we do well.
There have been positives. Randy did spend and how. Its been some time since we have had a striker who just scores goals, even if he was a 'panic buy,' 'was overpriced', and so on.
Bent is just fantastic.
Some supposed heroes, fell to the wayside, some new talent was uncovered, some old talent rediscovered, and through the long list of injuries, we lost games we should have won, I got sick of hearing how we were the worst team for losing games from winning positions, but finally we pulled through to finish 9th. Not bad for a manager who joined us late and then spent the latter part of the season wired up to machines in hospital.
9 th was an admirable, nay remarkable achievement in the end and from out of it special thanks from me to Stewart Downing, I hope he stays, to Bent, his goals saved us, his goal at Arsenal special, to Walker, who gave us that missing something at fullback we haven't had in years, I hope he stays, to Luke Young who unspectacularly got on with it wherever he played, to Reo Coker who still can't convince manager and fans how good he is for the team, I hope he stays too, to Brad Friedel, who will be sorely missed when he goes, at times his saves were enough for victory against defeat, and lastly to Ciaran Clarke, who whilst other youngsters have won the headlines remains the one guaranteed youngster of class.
There now remains a huge amount needing sorting, from the removal of the unplayable dross ( where and what is Ireland doing by the way), the sorting of those out of contract, to the decision on who will be the manager next season.
It need sorting and quick, but from a point of total despair on my Birthday on the 28th December 5 defeats in 19 games was a decent return.
Well done in the end, but certainly, we can do much, much better, next season, club management, players and especially some fans.
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And God bless Darren Bent, he is a great striker but John Carew scored more goals during the same period last season when we were battling in 3 competitions. He could and should have been handled much better than he was.
Are you including Carew's 5 FA Cup goals against Reading and Palace, of which 3 were penalties?
Yes, including FA Cup goals.
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And how many matches?
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And how many matches?
Just the ones Carew scored in.
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Like greg, I'm not bothered about PR gaffes. Results are what I care about most (they were mostly crap), and for all the talk of a more progressive style of play, I can't really remember being entertained much. There were occasional positive signs, but never really enough to convince me. That said, were he healthier, I'd give GH another year. Sadly, I think that's too risky now. We can't risk looking for a new bloke in September when all the good ones are working, and whoever takes over will be in charge of a squad into which he's had no input.
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aye. couldn't care less what his feelings are towards liverpool. Like a new manager is going to be in love with aston villa or whether that makes any difference to his ability to manage.
So him waving to Liverpool fans and ignoring the Villa fans is okay??
I don't care personally. He has some fond memories of his time at liverpool and responded. Some villa fans are too precious imo
Spoken by someone who clearly didn't make the 200 mile round trip in the freezing cold to see a spineless performance and then to be totally ignored - oh and to add further insult those ignored are paying his wages too.
There is absolutley no excuses for it.
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aye. couldn't care less what his feelings are towards liverpool. Like a new manager is going to be in love with aston villa or whether that makes any difference to his ability to manage.
So him waving to Liverpool fans and ignoring the Villa fans is okay??
I don't care personally. He has some fond memories of his time at liverpool and responded. Some villa fans are too precious imo
Spoken by someone who clearly didn't make the 200 mile round trip in the freezing cold to see a spineless performance and then to be totally ignored - oh and to add further insult those ignored are paying his wages too.
There is absolutley no excuses for it.
One of GH's biggest failings is his repeated inability to judge what is prudent and what is not prudent to say.
For example - fielding a weakened team at Man City and given up on the FA Cup? In the view of lots of people, stupid, defeatist and embarassing.
That's bad enough, but what does he say the next day? The sensible thing would have been some pap about using the full squad, long season etc etc, but no, he doesn't choose that option, he chooses to say "We wouldn't have won even if we'd played our first team, anyway" - which is pretty much the worst thing he could have possibly said, it just made it all much worse.
If you don't think the fans snub / Liverpool thing was a major issue (personally, I thought it was a bit humiliating and disrespectful) then how about the "the game was over at 2-0" comment.
O'Neill had lots of faults - lots - but I don't think for a moment he'd have ever made a spineless comment like that.
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And how many matches?
Seeing as you asked so nicely, I counted them for you.
Darren Bent 9 from 16 (0 sub)
John Carew 11 from 15 (5 sub)
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And how many matches?
Seeing as you asked so nicely, I counted them for you.
Darren Bent 9 from 16 (0 sub)
John Carew 11 from 15 (5 sub)
We should send Darren off to a few lap dancing clubs and see if it sorts his game out.
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That's bad enough, but what does he say the next day? The sensible thing would have been some pap about using the full squad, long season etc etc, but no, he doesn't choose that option, he chooses to say "We wouldn't have won even if we'd played our first team, anyway" - which is pretty much the worst thing he could have possibly said, it just made it all much worse.
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Add to that on The Friday after the game when he was questioned on his gaffes he said "I still can't understand what all the fuss is about"
That is the point.
He makes us a laughing stock and still doesn't get it
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Darren Bent 9 from 16 (0 sub)
John Carew 11 from 15 (5 sub)
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I've just looked at JC's PL games and goals and last season from mid Jan to the end of the season he scored 6 in 6
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6 in 16 even
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Makes you wonder if Bent coming in might have waked Carew from his slumber and they could have been tried as a front pair.
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After MON left and the failed experiment with McDonald a mid table finish was about what most expected, so on that score job done. The PR stuff is a minor consideration and should not detract from the overall job. We've achieved some creditable results, wins against 3 of the top 6 and only Arsenal of the CL qualifiers winning at VP. Against that there have been some shocking performances, notably Liverpool, Man City and Newcastle away and some truly inept defending for a good half of the season. However, from January on things have steadily improved and our points to game ratio has been pretty respectable culminating in 2 very good wins to round off with the team regaining their old confidence.
So it's a c+ from me.
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Makes you wonder if Bent coming in might have waked Carew from his slumber and they could have been tried as a front pair.
Without doubt, when Carew was good, he was very good. He brought the best out in Gabby, and perhaps would be a good partner for Bent. I said it about Heskey a while back, and I think similar with Carew. His lacklustre performances, perhaps had something to do with his age and constant niggly injuries having an effect on his body. he always seemed to have problems with his back, due to his stature.
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"GH and GMac have come ninth in the premier league in their first, not even full, season when even St Martin could only manage eleventh." A silly comparison.
O'Neill came in straight after Deadly & DOL's disatrous reign & his first available choice for a team at Arsenal was Sorensen, Samuel, Mellberg, Barry, McCann, Angel, Agbonlahor, Davis, Hughes, Ridgewell, Moore.
GH & GM came in after 3 years of finishing sixth and inherited Friedel, A Young, L Young, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Delfouenso, Delph, Petrov, Reo-Coker, Downing....
And they were very, very fortunate to climb up to 9th thanks to other results on the last day.
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Some good moments, some horrid moments.
Highlights
Man City home
Darren Bent
West Ham home
Liverpool home
Arsenal away
Lowlights
Newcastle away
Man City away
Albion away
Wolves home
Man City FA cup
Blues League cup
PR gaffes after both Man City and Liverpool
9th place in the league is not the end of the world, but it does cover up a season that at times has been painful to watch.
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Sonlyme, absolute cracking post mate.
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Against that there have been some shocking performances, notably Liverpool, Man City and Newcastle away
Sunderland and Wolves (home) and West Brom (away) weren't too clever either.
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And they were very, very fortunate to climb up to 9th thanks to other results on the last day.
Don't agree with that. After 38 games the the table doesn't lie and we got better results than those below us and worse then those above us. We deserved to be 9th.
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For all the talk of positive signs and whatnot, our best form this year was when we played to our strengths - on the counter, with decent delivery from out wide.
In the first few months of the season we had a fair few games (particularly away) where we looked like we'd overrun the opposition with Downing and Albrighton out wide, but not being able to take our chances cost us when our defence dropped the inevitable clanger. Darren Bent during this period would have been very useful.
In the latter stages of the season, it was the reintroduction of the likes of Luke Young and Petrov and reverting to a style of play not a million miles away from MON's that resulted in an upturn in form from Everton away onwards.
For the middle part of the campaign, the less said about that the better.
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What a very, very strange season. Three weeks ago I was still sweating on relegation - we ended up beating both Arsenal and Liverpool (yes, we can argue their state of motivation, perhaps, but still) and that final position of ninth makes everyone feel a bit better about themselves.
For me, what's been the turning point, along with the signing of Bent (crucial), was that we were able to pick a settled side for the final games of the season, and able to make the odd tactical change (Delph in, Gabby in or out, Albrighton) rather than picking players to fill holes.
It's going to be an interesting summer. I can't really say I have confidence in the GH/GMac partnership, despite finishing on a high, though. I get the feeling we need the fresh impetus of a new manager to come in and drive us forward, and I think we need it soon while there's a positive air around.
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I can only applaud Sonlyme for his upbeat post. However, if he believes we finished "well inside the top ten", then all this summer I am going to be telling all and sundry that we "nearly won the Premier League".
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After MON left and the failed experiment with McDonald a mid table finish was about what most expected, so on that score job done. The PR stuff is a minor consideration and should not detract from the overall job. We've achieved some creditable results, wins against 3 of the top 6 and only Arsenal of the CL qualifiers winning at VP. Against that there have been some shocking performances, notably Liverpool, Man City and Newcastle away and some truly inept defending for a good half of the season. However, from January on things have steadily improved and our points to game ratio has been pretty respectable culminating in 2 very good wins to round off with the team regaining their old confidence.
So it's a c+ from me.
When it comes to the PR stuff and GH dropping clangers, we've got to remember that the media play their part, too, in blurring the picture. I certainly got the impression this season that they enjoyed portraying GH as some kind of foreign buffoon. Compare and contrast how they portrayed him in the printed and televised press with Kenny Dalglish, for example.
Dalglish loses Torres and signs Carroll and Suarez: Hansen, Reade, Barrett, Evans and Maddock tell the world "King Kenny" is a genius for off-loading Torres. There's no negative spin to suggest Liverpool are a selling club or that King Kenny isn't capable of persuading a genuine world class player to stay at Anfield. The media spun this into a resounding win for Liverpool. Yet Houllier signs Bent and it's all a desperate gamble; the French man has lost the plot and nasty old Villa have mugged Sunderland. If we lose Young this summer will it be spun as a win for Villa? Will it be a case of Villa off-loading a player who has failed to reach the heights of two years ago? Of course not. Villa will be portrayed as a selling club - even if we replace Ashley with a better player.
A lot of Houllier's misfortune has arisen from the subtle negativity of the press towards both him and our club. If GH remains with us (and I wish him the good health to remain with us), hopefully he will have learnt that the media reports on Villa in a very, very different way to Liverpool.
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Is it coincidence or a consequence that the latter part of the season and the good results coincided with Houlliers absence.
I think we got lucky with Arsenal, penalty that could have been given against Dunne, V. Persie hitting the post, Chamakhs disallowed goal, and Liverpool, Mereiles hitting it straight at Friedel, Suarez generally having an off day, even the fact that Albrighton was only on because of injury to Delph.
These 2 results and other results leaving us 9th, plus the joy of seeing Blues go down, papers over the cracks as far as i am concerned.
It was a crap season with some crap results, led by a manager who appears out of his depth at times, our saving grace has been Darren Bent.
Report.
A difficult start to the season with a lack of coherent direction and leadership. Took time to settle. Not enough team spirit, and individuals must work harder. Achieved good results at times, but the lapses in concentration need to be eliminated. A good transfer window, achieved the results in the end, however nowehere near reaching full potential, can achieve much better results, has the ability, can sometimes give up too easily, must do better.
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Is it coincidence or a consequence that the latter part of the season and the good results coincided with Houlliers absence.
Good results? All 2 of them?
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After MON left and the failed experiment with McDonald a mid table finish was about what most expected, so on that score job done. The PR stuff is a minor consideration and should not detract from the overall job. We've achieved some creditable results, wins against 3 of the top 6 and only Arsenal of the CL qualifiers winning at VP. Against that there have been some shocking performances, notably Liverpool, Man City and Newcastle away and some truly inept defending for a good half of the season. However, from January on things have steadily improved and our points to game ratio has been pretty respectable culminating in 2 very good wins to round off with the team regaining their old confidence.
So it's a c+ from me.
That reflects my thoughts on the season as well.
Would I be happy next year with a season similar to this one? Certainly not. But I think he should be given a full season to show us his vision for the club.
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aye. couldn't care less what his feelings are towards liverpool. Like a new manager is going to be in love with aston villa or whether that makes any difference to his ability to manage.
So him waving to Liverpool fans and ignoring the Villa fans is okay??
I don't care personally. He has some fond memories of his time at liverpool and responded. Some villa fans are too precious imo
Spoken by someone who clearly didn't make the 200 mile round trip in the freezing cold to see a spineless performance and then to be totally ignored - oh and to add further insult those ignored are paying his wages too.
There is absolutley no excuses for it.
Fair enough but if we only choose future Managers from those that a) love aston villa unconditionally and b) are despised by their former club's fans, then its going to be a pretty shitty shortlist. John Gregory anyone?
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I agree with the overall tenor of the post, and it is very will written, but I was intrigued by this:
Once Gerard signed Bent and fell ill the attack changed - it was apparently Gary McAllister that was the problem, not Gerard. He was hated by the players said the 'insiders' and banner-painters.
These hateful haters, these painters of banners were not very productive were they? Deserted by their muses, their total artistic output amounted to a solitary banner, and even that was subject to searching questions about its status as a banner.
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When it comes to the PR stuff and GH dropping clangers, we've got to remember that the media play their part, too, in blurring the picture. I certainly got the impression this season that they enjoyed portraying GH as some kind of foreign buffoon. Compare and contrast how they portrayed him in the printed and televised press with Kenny Dalglish, for example.
Dalglish loses Torres and signs Carroll and Suarez: Hansen, Reade, Barrett, Evans and Maddock tell the world "King Kenny" is a genius for off-loading Torres. There's no negative spin to suggest Liverpool are a selling club or that King Kenny isn't capable of persuading a genuine world class player to stay at Anfield. The media spun this into a resounding win for Liverpool. Yet Houllier signs Bent and it's all a desperate gamble; the French man has lost the plot and nasty old Villa have mugged Sunderland. If we lose Young this summer will it be spun as a win for Villa? Will it be a case of Villa off-loading a player who has failed to reach the heights of two years ago? Of course not. Villa will be portrayed as a selling club - even if we replace Ashley with a better player.
A lot of Houllier's misfortune has arisen from the subtle negativity of the press towards both him and our club. If GH remains with us (and I wish him the good health to remain with us), hopefully he will have learnt that the media reports on Villa in a very, very different way to Liverpool.
Can't argue with that. We make an £18 million panic buy, Chelsea make a £50 million investment. The national media couldn't get past the idea that we weren't grateful enough to their mate Martin, then made them look idiots when our "losing interest, cutting back on his investment, no money available" owner spalashed out the first chance he got.
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"GH and GMac have come ninth in the premier league in their first, not even full, season when even St Martin could only manage eleventh." A silly comparison.
O'Neill came in straight after Deadly & DOL's disatrous reign & his first available choice for a team at Arsenal was Sorensen, Samuel, Mellberg, Barry, McCann, Angel, Agbonlahor, Davis, Hughes, Ridgewell, Moore.
GH & GM came in after 3 years of finishing sixth and inherited Friedel, A Young, L Young, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Delfouenso, Delph, Petrov, Reo-Coker, Downing....
And they were very, very fortunate to climb up to 9th thanks to other results on the last day.
What's your point, Paul?!
The team that MON started with at the Emirates (great day out, by the way) was actually quite good, seeing it again on your post. Perhaps a little green in terms of experience (like some of GH's teams this season) but a good 4-3-3 line up.
I'd agree that the comparisons between the GH and the MON starts and first seasons is a bit pointless; the performances are all relative to the games and form of all the other P'ship teams. This season we certainly got lucky that the other teams were fairly inept, generally.
Great opening post, but is there really much point subjecting this season to open-heart surgery? - it started badly, took an age to recover any sense of normality and then ended in difficult off-field circumstances. We just got lucky that other teams failed to perform effectifvely in the bottom half and we ended up 9th.
I think a much more valid discussion is: what do we learn from this season? How can we ensure that we do things better next time?
- Maximise the value of a good close-season by understanding and then dealing with the underlying managerial issues (if there are any).
- Maximise the value of a good close-season by understanding and then dealing with the underlying squad issues.
- Decide early on what your game-play is going to be and then get a group of players together who are committed to playing to that style, consistently.
- Pick positional specialists (IMO, it is no coincidence that we did better in the last few games because we had two specialist full backs on the team, one a particularly experienced FB).
- But also ensure you've players who are versatile, both positionally and in terms of being able to adapt during games to changing circumstances.
- Give promising youngsters some air-time; either in cameo roles for AV or in meaningful loan periods.
- Don't leave any decision / managerial vacuums: it causes deep unrest amongst players, supporters and staff. (and the media will doubtless expose it cruelly).
... there are probably loads of other lessons-learned ... What do you reckon?
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Is it coincidence or a consequence that the latter part of the season and the good results coincided with Houlliers absence.
You mean how we won the last two before he was taken ill, then got two points from the next three games. Those good results?
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I think it's quite telling that in this poor/transitional season, our home record is only one point worse than last season.
Well, given our home for the last couple of years, that is not a lot to shout about !!
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I think a much more valid discussion is: what do we learn from this season? How can we ensure that we do things better next time?
I agree and here is what I'd like to think they've picked up:-
1. Don't be afraid to spend big and be ambitous with transfer targets (Bent)
2. When a managerial hole appears fill it quickly by going after who you want rather than waiting on applicants (it took too long from Martin going to Houllier to being in the dugout)
3. Youth has a value, but only in conjunction with senior players (how we struggled when too many of the kids needed to be played at once)
4. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water when bringing in new ideas (the awful way our set piece defending has deteriorated)
5. Deal with bad discipline, but do so in a way that leaves the dorr open for good players to still play (Dunne and Collins re-emergence as our first choice CB pairing)
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Well we finished 9th which I would have taken at the beginning of the season. So in spite of the crises throughout the season, it was decent enough in the end. The big plus is Bent, he's just what we need and I also think Makoun will be top class.
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A curate's egg of a season and, frankly, the bad parts will continue to leave a bad taste for a long while yet.
However, in the spirit of accentuating the positives:
(1) We now have a striker who could quite conceivably score 25+ league goals next season.
(2) Young players have been blooded and the club will now have a much clearer idea as to which of those are likely to make it with us.
(3) A start has been made in shifting out some of the deadwood in the squad.
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The end state is not the only thing that counts, we also have to consider the trajectory, and the fact is that we were too close to the relegation zone for much of the season. It has been argued to death, but when the transfer window closed without us having a viable manager or a replacement for Milner, it was clear that expecting another top six finish was wildly unrealistic. Some argue that our form under MacDonald was top six material, ignoring that what we did was winning at home with Milner against the worst team in the league; losing heavily with a shocking display against a newly promoted team; scraping a lucky 1-0 win against an Everton side that barely picks up points before November; as well as once again losing to Rapid Vienna.
Houllier's performance hasn't been convincing, but he hasn't been any less disappointing that some of the senior players in the squad who we thought were professionals. And he hasn't been given much slack either. After all, what he did was coming out of semi-retirement to manage a team and club that he didn't know much about in the middle of a season. No wonder (especially consider the injury crisis) he didn't know his best XI straight away. In the end, when the outlook was at its direst he and the team pulled together and showed the necessary quality and resolve to pick up enough points to rule out the possibility of a relegation.
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I still we need a change of manager. I supported Houllier through the bleak winter months but he lost me totally with the selection at Man. City and then losing the next two games, at Bolton and dismally at Wolves.
As for end of season, best game has to be the Emirates although I also enjoyed us beating Man. City in a backs to the wall display in proably the only VP game this season to have a sense of occasion before kick off with Bent's debut.
Worst was obviously shipping 6 at Newcastle but the comical way we lost to 10 men WBA summed the season up for me.
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If I had to write up an end of season report I have to be honest it would be a struggle to find anything positive about Gerard Houlliers time other than the players he has got in.
Let's be honest, there were always likely to be a few underlying issues but in general we finished 6th in the league for 3 consecutive seasons so there wasn't a great deal wrong to begin with. If it were a game of golf you would say 6th place would be equivilent of par...
I think Houllier has come in and try to change too many things too quickly and upset the apple cart, which kind of contradicts his and McCallisters theory on defending set pieces and it only being able to be worked on during Pre-season.
The Liverpool away thing fucked me off, as did his surrender at Man City in the Cup. The football we play really isn't all that special to be honest but I guess you have to give credit for the way the youngsters appear to want to play for him.
I really want to like Gerard, as he strikes me as a good man, but I just can't take to him. I can't put my finger on why. I'm not doubting his knowledge, or his work effort (it is well documented he is a workaholic) but it just doesn't feel right.
I really really feared for us until Randy pulled a rabbit out of the hat and managed to secure the services of Makoun but more importantly Darren Bent. His goals have saved us. To that there is no doubt - his signing gave the players confidence in the knowledge that if chances are created they will end up in the net.
I guess we're at stick or twist again aren't we? My feeling would be to let Houllier go, (in his current capacity) let's be honest at his age his health isn't going to get better is it? We can't be in a position where a manager goes of sick again for a while, we need stability. I would also like Gerard to not have the worry and anxiety of managing Villa and put his feet.
Ancelotti is available, (something that would appeal to Randy's ethos) we have to think big - we have to move quickly. We can't afford to have another season like this one...
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No matter how we got there, we finished 9th - only one point of 8th and what was it, about 6 off 6th. (havent got the table at the mo)
So, at the end of the day, we went backwards but not by much, giving the fact we let so many points go from winning positions, and the players he has brought being one hell of a leap forwards from the players they replaced,
and, more importantly, the players Gerard has bought, have been our best players - suggesting he knows what he is doing
leads me to believe he deserves another year and backing in the market. We couldn't score goals, he saw it, he got Bent, we score goals.
We concede goals, he has saw it - common sense says I should trust him to solve it.
Given all the cirumstances I think this year has been a C , with a remark of "This has been an awkward year for Gerard but if he diects his potential in the correct areas he could have a much better year next year".
But I agree with the Liverpool thing , he badly got that wrong and I hope he has learnt from it, because I for one, won't accept it again (and Man City)
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No matter how we got there, we finished 9th - only one point of 8th and what was it, about 6 off 6th. (havent got the table at the mo)
So, at the end of the day, we went backwards but not by much, giving the fact we let so many points go from winning positions, and the players he has brought being one hell of a leap forwards from the players they replaced,
and, more importantly, the players Gerard has bought, have been our best players - suggesting he knows what he is doing
leads me to believe he deserves another year and backing in the market. We couldn't score goals, he saw it, he got Bent, we score goals.
We concede goals, he has saw it - common sense says I should trust him to solve it.
Given all the cirumstances I think this year has been a C , with a remark of "This has been an awkward year for Gerard but if he diects his potential in the correct areas he could have a much better year next year".
But I agree with the Liverpool thing , he badly got that wrong and I hope he has learnt from it, because I for one, won't accept it again (and Man City)
Pretty much sums up how I feel, though I think just because we finished six points of six doesn't make the season acceptable. We were poor - though fortunately so was everyone else.
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Lets compare it to last season first off
09/10 - europe - Embarassing defeat
League Cup - Runners Up
FA Cup - Semi finalists
League, 64 points , 52 goals scored 39 conceded - position 6th
10/11 - Europe - same stage exit
League Cup - Brum beat us quarter final
FA Cup - City beat us quarter final
League - 48 points, 48 goals scored 59 conceded, position 9th
On those stats, our cup runs have dropped and Id argue in both UK cups we had a real chance of progressing.
Where it really matters, the league we have dropped 16 points, conceded 20 more goals. Goals scored not too bad we are down only 4 this season which surprises me. Young, Albrighton and Downing all increased their goal scored tallies but the decline of Gabby and Carew was a blot on our goals scored.
Defensively with the same personnel, its hard to fathom how 20 more goals were conceded. Friedel was worse this season. Collins and Dunne were no where near the form of the season. Warnock's form was shocking and then he was exiled. We also bedded in better footballers like Walker, L Young and Clark into the defence more. Injuries meant Baker, Herd and Lichaj played more gametime that they needed to but still an increase of 20 goals is inexcusable.
All in all this season was a disaster. Right from pre season on. The loss of Milner was huge particularly as his replacement Ireland and later on Makoun and Bradley had little impact. There was a huge injury crisis aswell which should be taken into account but the table doesnt lie. 9th is a complete misnomer really, make no bones about it we were fighting for EPL survival for the later part of the season with everyone fit. Anyway we got through it.
Positives - Walker and Bent improved matters certainly. The emergence of Clark and Albrighton. Reo Coker had a fine season and Downing improved a good bit. We played some decent football at times but were pathetic at other times. More young players were given gametime too - Delph, Bannan, Lichaj, Baker, Herd, Fonz, Hogg. It always pissed me off when MON brought on no marks like Beye or Sidwell, at least our fillers are likely to be young hungry squad players with an attachment to the club.
Negatives - the decline of so many solid EPL players was hard to fathom. Friedel, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Petrov, Carew, Gabby. I dont think Ashley Young had a good season either despite showing his talent intermittently to good effect. Ireland was a joke. We were a disorganised rabble for most of that season, at times looked disinterested and certainly indisciplined. 4 managers managed the side from pre season to conclusion and we appear to be as a club on the drift towards mediocrity again. Beye continuing to bleed the club dry is a painful reminder of the excesses of the last regime.
The future
A new manager is required. I cant understand the revisionism shown towards Gerard Houllier. A manager shouldnt be judged solely on the loan signing of one player and the permanent signing of another. Pires and Makoun anyone. He presided over a shambles for vast tracts of that season and should pay the price regardless of his health. Another season that he even starts will be a bad one for the club imo.
With a good appointment, there is still a good future for AVFC. Our finances though are in rag order however the clearing of deadwood this season should help that out. We do have a fine academy, still a decent set of players. A good manager with the addition of a few new players and the shedding of half a dozen high earners and we will be up challenging for Europa League spots next season. The Champions League isnt within reach in the near future though which is a bit disappointing.
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the table doesnt lie. 9th is a complete misnomer
Make your mind up.
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the table doesnt lie. 9th is a complete misnomer
Make your mind up.
cheers for pointing that out. ;)
I think the drop of 16 points and the concession of 20 more goals highlight the decline better than the dropping of 3 league positions.
That clear up matters for you in that ostrich sized hole you seem to have dug for yourself
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Manchester United scored less goals and won less points than they did last season. I assume they'll be handing the trophy back any time now.
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thats a good point Dave. Blackpool scored enough points to have stayed up last year, so lets keep them in the premier league. (Not you, Birmingham, you're still down). We still took points off all the big boys, United, Chelski, Arsenal, City. Tought to compare last year with this as the top guys didnt score as many points and the bottom took more. Is this an improvement in the bottom teams or a decline at the top. Id say a bit of both
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I think we've seen an averaging out of the league this season, so the points were shared more evenly and the gap between top and bottom condenses. However, I don't think it'll be repeated as Man Utd and the other top teams didn't spend too heavily last summer and that's unlikely to be repeated, especially with Man City shaking them up a bit. Other top half teams such as us, Everton and Spurs had worse seasons also, so the points we dropped went mainly to the lower half clubs who were beating us.
Basically, the top got poorer more than the bottom got better, so the points dropped had to be picked up by someone.
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The rest of the top 8 dropped between 5 and 8 points, except for Man City who improved 4 and Chelsea who dropped 15 points and sacked their manager.
I’ve no idea if there’s any substance in it but I read that it is usual for the top teams to show a certain level of decline in the season following a World Cup.
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With one caretaker manager in charge for the first handful of games and another in charge for the last handful and a big injury crisis in the middle of all that, 9th was a decent finish. But I didn't think GH was the right man for the job when he was appointed and after his delayed arrival, Anfield, Man City in the cup and his recent health problems I think it's best if we get a new manager. Hopefully very shortly after the end of a season, not very shortly before the start of a new one.
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At the end of the day I don't really think it is sensible to argue anything other than this season being poor and a big disappointment. It's felt more like three seasons than one to me.
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Following the news that Fulham have been granted a Europa League place through the fair play league, it's interesting to analyse the red & yellow cards for the season.
Villa were good on red cards, with the 2 for Heskey & Makoun, but collected the third highest total of yellow cards. Ciaran Clark was our 'worst sinner' with 9.
And I'd avoid Cattermole & Tiote, if you see them on a night out in the Big Market.
http://www.myfootballfacts.com/PremierLeagueDiscipline2010-11.html
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Warnock was on 8 yellows and played what? half a season? He was a liability, a good job we did something about that.
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I think we've seen an averaging out of the league this season, so the points were shared more evenly and the gap between top and bottom condenses. However, I don't think it'll be repeated as Man Utd and the other top teams didn't spend too heavily last summer and that's unlikely to be repeated, especially with Man City shaking them up a bit. Other top half teams such as us, Everton and Spurs had worse seasons also, so the points we dropped went mainly to the lower half clubs who were beating us.
Basically, the top got poorer more than the bottom got better, so the points dropped had to be picked up by someone.
If we look at the last five seasons and how many points we finished behind the champions, it looks like this:
2010/11 -32
2009/10 -22
2008/09 -28
2007/08 -27
2006/07 -39
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Dear Lord
Why do folk get so upset?
Having read the many responses to my simple 'opinion' piece post about us as fans and our attitudes...
I see that D Bent is not as good as J Carew - and most of my points are inaccurate or muddle-headed...
GH is not as good as MON. Yet GH is far better than MON.
What is clear is that this interweb malarky promotes contrary m'f**kers who will argue about anything.
I see the B'ham Mail has another scoop - a poll of mooks wandering around the Fort retail park reveals David Moyes as the fans choice for manager.
So I'll ask another question.
Why would anyone with talent want come to a club where some fans are so fickle?
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AVFC end of year report......... Worked well when cornered like a rat after initially failing to achieve the abysmal standards they set themselves.
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Dear Lord
Why do folk get so upset?
Having read the many responses to my simple 'opinion' piece post about us as fans and our attitudes...
I see that D Bent is not as good as J Carew - and most of my points are inaccurate or muddle-headed...
GH is not as good as MON. Yet GH is far better than MON.
What is clear is that this interweb malarky promotes contrary m'f**kers who will argue about anything.
I see the B'ham Mail has another scoop - a poll of mooks wandering around the Fort retail park reveals David Moyes as the fans choice for manager.
So I'll ask another question.
Why would anyone with talent want come to a club where some fans are so fickle?
At any football clubs the fans do not share one opinion. If you tried to form a consensus you would fail. And for fucks sake the fans at every fucking football club in the land are fickle. It is a fashionable insult for the hard of thinking now because of some cocknose who used to manage us. He was wrong in many of his ideas about football and he was wrong to say that it was a condition unique to Villa supporters. However, because of that cocknose who used to manage us it has, for some strange reason, an insult du jour for people who think they are being clever when in fact they are being irritating. It wasn't big or clever the first time someone said and it is even less clever now.
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Oh dear - all that Houllier out stuff seems to have done the trick - and our new messiah is ...
Alec McBleedingLeish.
Still - as he is a man I would never have chosen - I think I'll have a bet on a Cup win and a top seven finish. As God knows - with the last two incumbents I got all excited and was dreaming of glory only for the dream to become a nightmare based in a world of rejection, relegation anxiety, and poo.
No money - no ambition - no future? This is more like it. Come on Villa - do it again - prove the world wrong.
UTV