Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Louzie0 on May 01, 2011, 01:26:10 PM
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(Apologies if this thread already exists - did not see one like it, specifically about the current situation. Tony D's on Rafa did not exist when I began typing! - great minds, etc. However, open to merger if mods prefer!)
Speculation and/or wishful thinking is in the air. The press are at it, so are many posters on H&V. Some of us would still prefer to see Gerard stay but realise that this decision is going to be dependent on his health and taken sometime in the summer, according to the club.
There are fans with different perspectives on this situation who want to discuss alternatives so given the circ.s, what about a thread separate from the current 'wishing him well' one which is struggling to stay on topic and use this one, dedicated entirely to the rumour mill.
I'll kick off with this one, dated today:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/188820/Rafael-Benitez-up-to-grab-Gerard-Houllier-job/
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Benitez - No thanks
If anyone, I'd prefer Moyes.
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Before GH was appointed I said I'd like Klinsmann and a director-type to work with him - someone like GH. I still don't think that would be a bad idea.
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
Lambert is an unproven MON. None of the above would be able to attract the calibre of player that GED would IMO
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C.V's don't seem to count for much. Look at Houllier's! If the board get this wrong, the fans will lose heart and won't bother coming, particularly when money is tight all over the midlands and slightly wider out. Do the board go for a big name and hope it works? Such as Van Gaal or do they go for someone solid and steady, like Mark Hughes? Both are risks but that's what the board are there to do. Make tough decisions. The last one hasn't worked and they need to have the balls to admit it instead of sticking with Houllier and risking losing the lifeblood of the club, the fans. We have nosedived this season. It's been bloody horrible to watch on the pitch, read in the papers, listen to on the radio and the telly. Absolute rubbish.
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I think it will be Hughes, who I know is not everbody's cup of tea, but will at least bring some organisation and devilment back to our side.
Just imagine him spending £20 odd million on defenders who have the remarkable characteristic of being able to defend.
He’d also get inside that loon Irelands head again and maybe able to get the best out of him, which given the lack of craft we have, may not be a bad thing.
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
Lambert is an unproven MON. None of the above would be able to attract the calibre of player that GED would IMO
Why?
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
Lambert is an unproven MON. None of the above would be able to attract the calibre of player that GED would IMO
Why?
Because GED is a worldwide name in football and the other two aren't. He has far more contacts than all 3 put together.
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Hughes or Jol or Koeman
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
Lambert is an unproven MON. None of the above would be able to attract the calibre of player that GED would IMO
Why?
Because GED is a worldwide name in football and the other two aren't. He has far more contacts than all 3 put together.
Of course they are. Al three have fantastic reputations. That's a massive assumption there. As for GED Your talking about the man who attrachted Salif Diao, Sinama Pongholle, and Bruno Cheyrou. I think we could have done that.
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Why do I get the feeling I will be saying meh a lot if Houllier leaves?
And I'm meh on the prospect of him staying, too.
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Coyle?
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I have been asking for Louis van Gaal however not sure how hungry he is for wanting to develop a club in Villa's position. He may be after a fat salary job now having proved himself behind and doubt with big European clubs.
So if not van Gaal than a young up and coming coach like Rangnick or Koemann ahead og Hughes or Moyse.
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
Lambert is an unproven MON. None of the above would be able to attract the calibre of player that GED would IMO
Why?
Because GED is a worldwide name in football and the other two aren't. He has far more contacts than all 3 put together.
Of course they are. Al three have fantastic reputations. That's a massive assumption there. As for GED Your talking about the man who attrachted Salif Diao, Sinama Pongholle, and Bruno Cheyrou. I think we could have done that.
No they aren't. They are names on these shores, Hughes is more global than Moyes. I think you are being naroow minded if you don't believe that GED is a bigger name and has more contacts than the three names you suggested.
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
Lambert is an unproven MON. None of the above would be able to attract the calibre of player that GED would IMO
Why?
Because GED is a worldwide name in football and the other two aren't. He has far more contacts than all 3 put together.
Of course they are. Al three have fantastic reputations. That's a massive assumption there. As for GED Your talking about the man who attrachted Salif Diao, Sinama Pongholle, and Bruno Cheyrou. I think we could have done that.
No they aren't. They are names on these shores, Hughes is more global than Moyes. I think you are being naroow minded if you don't believe that GED is a bigger name and has more contacts than the three names you suggested.
I think your being narrow minded to think that Hughes and Moyes aren't global names. We're playing in the Premier League, which watched around the world.
Bryan Robson could quality players but that definately didn't make him a good manager.
Anyway, with regardless to that point Hughes and Moyes are more tactically astute that Houllier and G Mac. And I'd rather pick a manager in terms of tactics and man management.
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3555098/David-Moyes-plays-down-Aston-Villa-link.html
Moyes (and Hughes on same page) have distanced themselves at this point. Villas Boas has been linked in very speculative terms by some bloggers.
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I'm getting to the point where I am almost ambivalent over whether GED stays or leaves (suspect it will be the latter). What is more important to me is getting rid of McAllister - I think he is the root cause of a lot that has gone wrong this season.
If GED goes he needs to be replaced with someone who has his own favourite assistants - if only to make sure McAllister goes.
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I want Houllier to stay on in some capacity if his health allows it, without a doubt its been a total twat of a season but he's spent the whole season putting the foundations in place, and if we appoint a new manager next season he'd most probably have his own idea's and we'd be looking at another season similiar to this one, however if Houllier was to move upstairs in a DOF role, over seeing the scouting, youth development etc then we could get a coach in such as Hughton who'd be willing to work in those conditions.
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Before GH was appointed I said I'd like Klinsmann and a director-type to work with him - someone like GH. I still don't think that would be a bad idea.
I was also an advocate for Klinsmann but with the roles reversed. Whilst at Germany he was the man that completely changed the way the U21 team played in order to benefit (his) full squad. He also instructed all clubs to adopt a similar style of football.
This suggests to me that he is best at sorting out the bigger picture rather than the details of the opposition and the more tedious tasks (Low did most of this I believe). I have also read that Klinsmann was pretty hands off a lot of the time, living in LA and stuff like that.
I cannot see him completely immersing himself in the villa job which, if he was the manager/coach this would be necessary.
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I was also an advocate for Klinsmann bur with the roles reversed. Whilst at Germany he was the man that completely changed the way the U21 team played in order to benefit (his) full squad. He also instructed all clubs to adopt a similar style of football.
This suggests to me that he is best at sorting out the bigger picture rather than the details of the opposition and the more tedious tasks (Lowe did most of this I believe). I have also read that Klinsmann was pretty hands off a lot of the time, living in LA and stuff like that.
I cannot see him completely immersing himself in the villa job which if he was the manager/coach this would be necessary.
Well that would be up to him, and if he wanted to immerse himself then I'd let him. The reason I'd like him as head coach is because he's a great figurehead and macro-strategist (to use horrible jargon I promise never to use again), but perhaps doesn't quite have the nuts and bolts to be a genuine coach or the transfer acumen to be an upstairs type. He seems to have great personal motivation skills as well, which would count towards him as head coach, and shares the footballing philosophy of GH so they could work well together. If he got a like-minded and likeable first-team coach as well (ie bye-bye G Mac) then the whole management team could really work well together.
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Michael Laudrup?
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If he got a like-minded and likeable first-team coach as well (ie bye-bye G Mac) then the whole management team could really work well together.
However, our current first team coach is.........?
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If he got a like-minded and likeable first-team coach as well (ie bye-bye G Mac) then the whole management team could really work well together.
However, our current first team coach is.........?
You're right, it's Sid! That's perfect. If Klinsmann would then like his own assistant to go alongside the whole team (and replace G Mac) then great. I will carry on dreaming about this scenario until we inevitably appoint Curbishley or something.
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Moyes - No thanks, starts every season poorly and with our record in March that is not what we need. Also spent a lot of money at Everton on poor/below average players.
Coyle - Is the new Paul Jewell so that's a no from me.
Lambert - Not enough experience, but could work under the guidance of Houllier
Grayson - see Lambert
Hughes - Fairly decent record at Blackburn/Man City & Fulham, but there is something about him I don't like but can't quite put my finger on it.
Benitez - Has got the experience and also the pedigree to do a decent enough job for us, I wouldn't be too upset to see him take over.
McLaren - A lot better manager now then he was in charge of England. Not sure I'd look forward to his attempt at a Brummie accent though.
Vila Boas - The name says he is ideal for the role, as does his record. However I suspect he will go to a bigger club than us when he leaves Porto.
Ranieri - Experience in the Premier League and I'd think a point to prove. Not sure what his record was like in Italy though.
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If he got a like-minded and likeable first-team coach as well (ie bye-bye G Mac) then the whole management team could really work well together.
However, our current first team coach is.........?
You're right, it's Sid! That's perfect. If Klinsmann would then like his own assistant to go alongside the whole team (and replace G Mac) then great. I will carry on dreaming about this scenario until we inevitably appoint Curbishley or something.
Meanwhile, we have to face reality. A new manager will bring in his own coaching staff.
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Ranieri was mixed in Italy. Most agree that he was unfairly dismissed by Juve, especially when you look at the records of his successors. At Roma he guided them to their billion-and-first second place finish, but this season fell victim to the politics around the club before the recent takeover. However, it's fair to say that he spent a fair amount of money at Juve without huge reward, and his presence caused genuine division at times at Roma.
Dave, while that's undeniably often true, if there's a coach at the club who shares their vision and is good enough etc, they are often kept on. In Sid's case, he was even promoted. I also think Steve Clarke was at Chelsea before Mourinho, so there's another example (I'm sure there are many more).
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Dave, while that's undeniably often true, if there's a coach at the club who shares their vision and is good enough etc, they are often kept on. In Sid's case, he was even promoted. I also think Steve Clarke was at Chelsea before Mourinho, so there's another example (I'm sure there are many more.
The problem is that he's always been under the radar before, whereas now he's part of the first team set-up. The other, sad but true, fact is that we can't criticise the way the team plays without bringing him into it.
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Hughes - Fairly decent record at Blackburn/Man City & Fulham, but there is something about him I don't like but can't quite put my finger on it.
Exactly my feelings, the last bit is bang on, I really don't like him but can never work out why.
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The problem is that he's always been under the radar before, whereas now he's part of the first team set-up. The other, sad but true, fact is that we can't criticise the way the team plays without bringing him into it.
Sadly that's very true. Hardly a novel suggestion, but it could well be the case that a specialist defensive coach would benefit him and us in general. I certainly think the team's play in possession has, overall, improved this year, so he and the staff seem to be doing something right. There could be something to build on there.
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Hughes would be a rather uninspiring move.
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Not as uninspiring as another season of Ged and GMac
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The problem is that he's always been under the radar before, whereas now he's part of the first team set-up. The other, sad but true, fact is that we can't criticise the way the team plays without bringing him into it.
Sadly that's very true. Hardly a novel suggestion, but it could well be the case that a specialist defensive coach would benefit him and us in general. I certainly think the team's play in possession has, overall, improved this year, so he and the staff seem to be doing something right. There could be something to build on there.
There definitely is, and that's the infuriating thing.
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There definitely is, and that's the infuriating thing.
100% agree.
On Hughes, I can't put my finger on it either. There's just a feeling that he's not really going to do anything other than steady, solid, mid-table. There isn't the excitement that he's the guy to drag the club forward of where MON got it. Plus he's a bit elbowy and rough, and often came across as disrespectful to other clubs in interviews while at Man City (but maybe that's a City thing).
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Moyes, Hughes or Lambert for me.
Lambert is an unproven MON. None of the above would be able to attract the calibre of player that GED would IMO
I'm pretty certain similar things were said many moons ago when BFR departed.
"We'll never attract big name players again," and so on. Yet Sir Brian was able to attract the likes of Draper and Collywobbles.
Ultimately it's Aston Villa that attracts the player - not the bloke in charge.
I don't think, for example, had GH gone to MK Dons that the likes of Bent and Makoun would have followed him there, just because of his previous reputation in the game.
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I'll repeat what I've said in a different thread: Paul Lambert is going to be a top manager at a top club. To me he's cut of the right cloth: he had a varied playing career - including a stint in Germany, he has served his managerial apprenticeship in the lower divisions and - at least from what I can glean from the Football League Show - has got Norwich playing a style of football that I'd love to see once more at the Villa. His record of handing out thrashings in local derbies is also impressive!
His profile now is similar to that of Moyes when he was at Preston. Some club sooner or later - sooner if Norwich miss out in the play-offs - is going to take a chance on him. In my opinion, that club is going to be handsomely rewarded for taking that chance. At present he's not going to get a job with any of the Top 6 clubs, but he'd do really well for a underachiever like Everton, one of the North East clubs - or the Villa.
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I'll repeat what I've said in a different thread: Paul Lambert is going to be a top manager at a top club. To me he's cut of the right cloth: he had a varied playing career - including a stint in Germany, he has served his managerial apprenticeship in the lower divisions and - at least from what I can glean from the Football League Show - has got Norwich playing a style of football that I'd love to see once more at the Villa. His record of handing out thrashings in local derbies is also impressive!
His profile now is similar to that of Moyes when he was at Preston. Some club sooner or later - sooner if Norwich miss out in the play-offs - is going to take a chance on him. In my opinion, that club is going to be handsomely rewarded for taking that chance. At present he's not going to get a job with any of the Top 6 clubs, but he'd do really well for a underachiever like Everton, one of the North East clubs - or the Villa.
I share this view. For me, Ged heading up the scouting and Lambert managing the team would be the ideal scenario. With McAllister facking orf as well BTW.
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I'll repeat what I've said in a different thread: Paul Lambert is going to be a top manager at a top club. To me he's cut of the right cloth: he had a varied playing career - including a stint in Germany, he has served his managerial apprenticeship in the lower divisions and - at least from what I can glean from the Football League Show - has got Norwich playing a style of football that I'd love to see once more at the Villa. His record of handing out thrashings in local derbies is also impressive!
His profile now is similar to that of Moyes when he was at Preston. Some club sooner or later - sooner if Norwich miss out in the play-offs - is going to take a chance on him. In my opinion, that club is going to be handsomely rewarded for taking that chance. At present he's not going to get a job with any of the Top 6 clubs, but he'd do really well for a underachiever like Everton, one of the North East clubs - or the Villa.
I share this view. For me, Ged heading up the scouting and Lambert managing the team would be the ideal scenario. With McAllister facking orf as well BTW.
Sounds good to me.
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Andy Gray might be interested.
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Andy Gray might be interested.
What about Del boy with rodney or Trigger or Boycie as the assistant.
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GH will have a lot more "draw" for foreign players than any of the above tbh.
I think the directive given to GH was to transform the club, and to attract good young talent from abroad.Much as i like Moyes, and poss Hughes, i get the impression they will have to be prepared to work with GH.And thats the direction i would go in tbh
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Carlo Ancelotti could be out of work in the summer??
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Regarding Mark Hughes, well he bores me, i don't know why he bores me, he just does. Would he be any better than MON? Would he takes us where we want to go? Personally, i don't think so.
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Carlo Ancelotti could be out of work in the summer??
I'd say he's almost nailed on to go to Roma.
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wishful thinking is in the air.
In that case, Louis van Gaal please.
I imagine Moyes is closer to the truth though.
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Why this great faith in GH's scouting/DOF abilities. The signing of Bent was a no brainer. And then there's Bradley, and Makoun (he can pass a ball square over 10 yards but otherwise hardly looks an impact player from what I've seen so far). Why do we need to accommodate Houllier in the set up, apart from feeling sorry for him? It's not worked, time to move on and not build the club around him.
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I think we can strike Osama bin Laden off the list.
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I'm in a strange position of quite liking Ged despite our poor results - I think I like what he is trying to do at least?!
Possible solution could be moving him upstairs and having Poyet in to manage first team. He seems to have done well whenever he's been on my radar but I admit to not knowing much about him which could scupper my argument.....
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owen coyle for me, or mark hughes.
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Where is the recent evidence for these great contacts of Houllier's?
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Why this great faith in GH's scouting/DOF abilities. The signing of Bent was a no brainer. And then there's Bradley, and Makoun (he can pass a ball square over 10 yards but otherwise hardly looks an impact player from what I've seen so far). Why do we need to accommodate Houllier in the set up, apart from feeling sorry for him? It's not worked, time to move on and not build the club around him.
Totally agree, time for GED to go.
Did he ever really want the job ? Seemed to be a chore from day 1
He then fucks up by appointing a poor team around him
Bent was a no brainer, Makoun / Bradley / Cummings, all a bit mediocre really (albeit Makoun may be ok next year ??)
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Bent was a no brainer. Shame MON didnt have a fookin brain...
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I'll repeat what I've said in a different thread: Paul Lambert is going to be a top manager at a top club. To me he's cut of the right cloth: he had a varied playing career - including a stint in Germany, he has served his managerial apprenticeship in the lower divisions and - at least from what I can glean from the Football League Show - has got Norwich playing a style of football that I'd love to see once more at the Villa. His record of handing out thrashings in local derbies is also impressive!
His profile now is similar to that of Moyes when he was at Preston. Some club sooner or later - sooner if Norwich miss out in the play-offs - is going to take a chance on him. In my opinion, that club is going to be handsomely rewarded for taking that chance. At present he's not going to get a job with any of the Top 6 clubs, but he'd do really well for a underachiever like Everton, one of the North East clubs - or the Villa.
Agreed, but Norwich won't need to miss out in the play-offs. They are likely to finish second and get automatic promotion and in that case I think he will stay on for at least next season
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I'll repeat what I've said in a different thread: Paul Lambert is going to be a top manager at a top club. To me he's cut of the right cloth: he had a varied playing career - including a stint in Germany, he has served his managerial apprenticeship in the lower divisions and - at least from what I can glean from the Football League Show - has got Norwich playing a style of football that I'd love to see once more at the Villa. His record of handing out thrashings in local derbies is also impressive!
His profile now is similar to that of Moyes when he was at Preston. Some club sooner or later - sooner if Norwich miss out in the play-offs - is going to take a chance on him. In my opinion, that club is going to be handsomely rewarded for taking that chance. At present he's not going to get a job with any of the Top 6 clubs, but he'd do really well for a underachiever like Everton, one of the North East clubs - or the Villa.
Agreed, but Norwich won't need to miss out in the play-offs. They are likely to finish second and get automatic promotion and in that case I think he will stay on for at least next season
The same was thought about Owen Coyle. Lambert would jump at the chance to manage us? And agreed, he's class. Exactly what we need providing he's got free reign to do manage without a DOF.
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I'll repeat what I've said in a different thread: Paul Lambert is going to be a top manager at a top club. To me he's cut of the right cloth: he had a varied playing career - including a stint in Germany, he has served his managerial apprenticeship in the lower divisions and - at least from what I can glean from the Football League Show - has got Norwich playing a style of football that I'd love to see once more at the Villa. His record of handing out thrashings in local derbies is also impressive!
His profile now is similar to that of Moyes when he was at Preston. Some club sooner or later - sooner if Norwich miss out in the play-offs - is going to take a chance on him. In my opinion, that club is going to be handsomely rewarded for taking that chance. At present he's not going to get a job with any of the Top 6 clubs, but he'd do really well for a underachiever like Everton, one of the North East clubs - or the Villa.
My thoughts exactly!
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I'd be pretty happy with Lambert.
Another name from the Championship would be Brendan Rodgers.
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I'll repeat what I've said in a different thread: Paul Lambert is going to be a top manager at a top club. To me he's cut of the right cloth: he had a varied playing career - including a stint in Germany, he has served his managerial apprenticeship in the lower divisions and - at least from what I can glean from the Football League Show - has got Norwich playing a style of football that I'd love to see once more at the Villa. His record of handing out thrashings in local derbies is also impressive!
His profile now is similar to that of Moyes when he was at Preston. Some club sooner or later - sooner if Norwich miss out in the play-offs - is going to take a chance on him. In my opinion, that club is going to be handsomely rewarded for taking that chance. At present he's not going to get a job with any of the Top 6 clubs, but he'd do really well for a underachiever like Everton, one of the North East clubs - or the Villa.
Agreed, but Norwich won't need to miss out in the play-offs. They are likely to finish second and get automatic promotion and in that case I think he will stay on for at least next season
The same was thought about Owen Coyle. Lambert would jump at the chance to manage us? And agreed, he's class. Exactly what we need providing he's got free reign to do manage without a DOF.
I think Lambert of all people would benefit from a DoF as he has so far been shopping in a different market to what Villa will be. Therefore it is highly unlikely that he will have a list of good value transfer targets, for Norwich yes, for a villa unlikely. Therefore he can concentrate on coaching, match day preparation whilst someone else can sort out the stuff that so far he has not done.
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Martinez was also an up-and-coming C'ship manager before joining Wigan. Although he has been ok, he may end up back in the C'ship.
Brendan Rodgers didn't cover himself in glory at Reading ...
I'd like to see Lambert, with a senior guy to support him - whether that's Hou or someone else, I don't know.
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The points re Lambert are very valid. And Moyes when he got to Everton made 2-3 very astute sigings from the Championship that he knew would succeed in the prem (Cahill and Lescott) but I would still want someone like Houllier putting all the scouting networks (not actually being the scout) organising the structure of the club etc.
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The points re Lambert are very valid. And Moyes when he got to Everton made 2-3 very astute sigings from the Championship that he knew would succeed in the prem (Cahill and Lescott) but I would still want someone like Houllier putting all the scouting networks (not actually being the scout) organising the structure of the club etc.
In the horrible event of Houllier being given a job 'upstairs' there would be no way we'd have Lambert here, Houllier would want somebody who he has worked with before that shares his football philosophy.