Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Concrete John on April 18, 2011, 02:00:34 PM
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Although the recent upturn in results since the Everton game is very welcome, it can't go without mention that this has coincided with a switch to a 4-4-2 formation. Up until then Gezza has exclusively used 4-5-1 as his starting formation, so are we just seeing a temporary change in tactics or will we be back to 4-4-2 for the start of 2011/2012.
It's quite important as our summer transfer dealings should be geared towards a certain way of playing. For instance, I can see us not signing another striker if it's one up top, but a full squad would need 4 for a 4-4-2, so one in addition to Bent, Gabby and the Fonz (I'm expecting Heskey to leave regardless) would then be needed. Similarly the replacemnt for Ash, who I also expect to go, would be better as a straight 'number 10' in one formation, but a more traditional winger in another.
These sort of threads often get mixed up between what we expect and what we want, so I hope the above options cover all the bases. And for the purposes of the poll, 4-5-1 is intending to include all the variations of it, such as 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, etc.
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I think our summer activity in the transfer market would be bias towards going 4-4-2. We may go 4-5-1 in big away games.
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451 is my preference.
But the point above that any transfer dealings must be geared to a type of formation is probably the correct answer. 442 can work but you do need the right players.
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4-4-2
But if we're going to carry on playing with 2 wingers, we need a strong, quality midfielder to play with Makoun.
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to suit.
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Don't panic, I've just phoned the coastguard.
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Don't panic, I've just phoned the coastguard.
Did you get through?
They're getting rid of a few of them.
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I wonder if the players helped Houllier come to the decision to go 4-4-2 or he did it himself. I guess we'll never know but apart from Agbonlahor for Bent and Walker being at right back that was an O'Neill set up on Saturday.
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I wonder if the players helped Houllier come to the decision to go 4-4-2 or he did it himself. I guess we'll never know but apart from Agbonlahor for Bent and Walker being at right back that was an O'Neill set up on Saturday.
Hard to say, but i'll bet the players voiced their preference to play 4-4-2.
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I wonder if the players helped Houllier come to the decision to go 4-4-2 or he did it himself. I guess we'll never know but apart from Agbonlahor for Bent and Walker being at right back that was an O'Neill set up on Saturday.
Thought much the same thing after Newcastle at home.
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MON didn't invent 4-4-2 and Houllier has used it before.
Unlike MON's typical 4-4-2 though it included patient build up play and ball retention.
It certainly didn't feel like watching an O'Neill team.
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I've always like the Christmas tree myself.
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It certainly didn't feel like watching an O'Neill team.
I very much thought Newcastle did - not a great performance but a clean sheet and a goal from a set piece. We even got a cameo of Carlos at RB!!
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It certainly didn't feel like watching an O'Neill team.
I very much thought Newcastle did - not a great performance but a clean sheet and a goal from a set piece. We even got a cameo of Carlos at RB!!
Yes, that was more reminiscent.
A bit desperate and nervy at times but we were also somehow in complete control. Or that's how it felt at the time. Strange as it was only 1 - 0.
But Newcastle were shite.
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I don't believe in one formation. Good teams should be able to use their squads in different ways based on the circumstance. Too often under MON we didn't have the ability to shift gears and try something different when our tactics were not working. I'd like to think GH has a preferred formation in mind, but would have the weapons in the squad to change things as soon that wasn't working. We need to be flexible, not set on one system.
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4-4-2 is working for us now and depending on what kind of role we ask Gabby to play in it and what kind of central midfielders we get in it could do so in the future. If Gabby plays a deeper role and helps out the midfielders more it might get round the issue of not having enough bodies in the midfield in some cases. Look at the way Rooney plays for Man United for example. For the midfield what we need to make 4-4-2 work is energetic midfielders. It worked last season with Milner and Delph has that potential. We'd need a slightly better version of Reo Coker to play alongside him.
However, I still think a 4-5-1/4-3-3 with a good attacking midfielder would work better more often especially away from home against 5 man midfield teams. It is a bit harsh on Gabby admittedly. Just because a 4-4-2 has worked in two games doesn't eradicate all the weaknesses we saw from it under MoN in three seasons.
Ideally, we should use both depending on what we need from the team. Tactics are not one size fits all.
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Tactics are not one size fits all.
Try telling O'Neill that.
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Tactics are not one size fits all.
Try telling O'Neill that.
Thing is we did use the 4-5-1 under him quite a lot in his earlier years, but it seemed to feature less and less as the longer he was here.
I'm also of the opinion that we should have that adaptability about us and be able to play a number of ways. However, I've always felt a manager should know what his best team is and that would be in a certain formation. I still think when Gezza is drawing up his targets for the summer it will be with a 4-5-1 of some kind in mind.
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I would say 442 it seems to work for us but being able to change when the need arises something MON just could not do.
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Tactics are not one size fits all.
Try telling O'Neill that.
He would have misheard and put a bid in for Fitz Hall.
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It certainly didn't feel like watching an O'Neill team.
I very much thought Newcastle did - not a great performance but a clean sheet and a goal from a set piece. We even got a cameo of Carlos at RB!!
Yes, that was more reminiscent.
A bit desperate and nervy at times but we were also somehow in complete control. Or that's how it felt at the time. Strange as it was only 1 - 0.
But Newcastle were shite.
That game was always going to be a nervy, scrappy affair regardless of what the formation was.
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What about some wing halves and inside forwards for a change?
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Next season will be interesting; I suspect Houllier prefers a variation on the lone striker formation, be it 4-5-1, 4-3-3 with a centre-forward flanked by two widemen or 4-2-3-1. But with senior defenders available again I think he's recognised the need to revert to something familiar, tried and trusted, for the crucial final games of the season, and it's the right decision.
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What about some wing halves and inside forwards for a change?
Is Delph a wing half ??
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4-4-2 for me but I agree that we need to have a plan B and C
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Don't panic, I've just phoned the coastguard.
Legend mate!
Anyhow, we didn't play 4-5-1 but 4-2-3-1 as 2 holding CM played behind the wingers and the advanced CM.
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1 went with mainly 4-4-2 and i'm happy with that. Unlike some i have faith that gabby will form a partnership with bent given time, and someone will be bought in anyway this summer
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*New Keeper*
L Young C Clark *New CB* *New LB*
F Delph J Makoun *New CM*
M Albrighton S Downing
D Bent
So basically a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is what I'd expect/like to see next season.
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*New Keeper*
L Young C Clark *New CB* *New LB*
F Delph J Makoun *New CM*
M Albrighton S Downing
D Bent
So basically a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is what I'd expect/like to see next season.
You looking forward to championship football in 2012 then?
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*New Keeper*
L Young C Clark *New CB* *New LB*
F Delph J Makoun *New CM*
M Albrighton S Downing
D Bent
So basically a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is what I'd expect/like to see next season.
You looking forward to championship football in 2012 then?
Which of those players don't you rate? Or do you disagree with not playing Warnock, Dunne, Friedel or Petrov?
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Why?
That looks good to me.
We just need that new central midfielder to be defensively minded enough to cover for Makoun and Delph. The only issue I have with HolteEnderInTheSky's team is that we could be doing with getting another new right back. A few players to bolster the bench and that would be just about what I'd play.
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Why?
That looks good to me.
We just need that new central midfielder to be defensively minded enough to cover for Makoun and Delph. The only issue I have with HolteEnderInTheSky's team is that we could be doing with getting another new right back. A few players to bolster the bench and that would be just about what I'd play.
I was thinking about a new RB but seeing as tho Luke is playing so well I'd give him another go at a full season. Don't forget that we will have to spend a fair bit on getting those 4 1st team positions filled, RB is one place I think we could be ok in and I'd rather spend it on a GK, LB, CD and a CM. The bench players you were talking about would be:
Friedel, Cuellar, Collins, Gardner, Gabby, Bannan and Lichaj for me with maybe Delfouneso and NRC knocking about somewhere.
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I think it's obvious enough that I'm a 4-3-3 man. I just think it gives the best balance of midfield presence (which allows you to accommodate creative but slight players like Bannan), fluidity, forward movement, width and protection against the counter-attack.
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I'd like to see us go 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 with the players and options to go 4-4-2 if needed.
Robinson
Walker. Collins Clark Gibbs
Capoue
Makoun Delph
Gervinho Bent Downing
Subs: Guzan, Ceullar, Baker, Bannan, Albrighton, Gabby, Delfouneso
Double substitution, Gabby & Marc for Gervinho & Delph and we have a solid, traditional 4-4-2.
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Robinson
Johnson Sakho
Walker Taiwo
Mariga Parker(c)
Albrighton Gourcuff Downing
Bent
Westwood, Collins, Clark, Delph, Makoun, Chamberlain, Agbonlahor
Even better if Ashley stays (shut it, there's another thread for that).
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That (Maz's) is the formation I'd like to see us eventually adopt, though I still think it's important to be able to function in a 4-4-2 as and when required. I think we've actually got the players already at the club to play that way, with the exception of the central man in the three just behind Bent. That's the player we need to find.
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*New Keeper*
L Young C Clark *New CB* *New LB*
F Delph J Makoun *New CM*
M Albrighton S Downing
D Bent
So basically a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is what I'd expect/like to see next season.
You looking forward to championship football in 2012 then?
Which of those players don't you rate? Or do you disagree with not playing Warnock, Dunne, Friedel or Petrov?
On the evidence of this season I'm far from convinced about Makoun, Delph and Clark. Hopefully they'll improve, but I wouldn't want to risk building a team around them.
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Clark! Really?
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......................Green
............Collins................Clark
Walker.......................................Young
...........Petrov..........Makoun..........Delph
Messi.....................Bent...................Downing
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*New Keeper*
L Young C Clark *New CB* *New LB*
F Delph J Makoun *New CM*
M Albrighton S Downing
D Bent
So basically a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is what I'd expect/like to see next season.
You looking forward to championship football in 2012 then?
Which of those players don't you rate? Or do you disagree with not playing Warnock, Dunne, Friedel or Petrov?
On the evidence of this season I'm far from convinced about Makoun, Delph and Clark. Hopefully they'll improve, but I wouldn't want to risk building a team around them.
Clark has been great this season and is one of the few players we have that can fit seamlessly into several positions. Delph has not been played enough in his natural position but will come good next year, injuries permitting, and Makoun is an experienced Champions League midfielder who's pass completion record is superb. Given time I believe he will be a class act.
So in summary the team I put up is one I believe would do well if the additions were players such as Green, Baines, Parker and Hangeland.
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*New Keeper*
L Young C Clark *New CB* *New LB*
F Delph J Makoun *New CM*
M Albrighton S Downing
D Bent
So basically a 4-5-1/4-3-3 is what I'd expect/like to see next season.
You looking forward to championship football in 2012 then?
Which of those players don't you rate? Or do you disagree with not playing Warnock, Dunne, Friedel or Petrov?
On the evidence of this season I'm far from convinced about Makoun, Delph and Clark. Hopefully they'll improve, but I wouldn't want to risk building a team around them.
Clark has been great this season and is one of the few players we have that can fit seamlessly into several positions. Delph has not been played enough in his natural position but will come good next year, injuries permitting, and Makoun is an experienced Champions League midfielder who's pass completion record is superb. Given time I believe he will be a class act.
So in summary the team I put up is one I believe would do well if the additions were players such as Green, Baines, Parker and Hangeland.
Fair enough - it's all about opinions. The jury remains out for me....