Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: IFWaters on April 08, 2011, 05:17:04 PM
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Its 5pm on Friday so time to shoot the breeze.
Is there an alternative future for Aston Villa ?
It seems to me that there are a set of clubs in the PL all out to achieve the same holy grail ; CL qualification and the riches that offers. It also seems to me that 3 of the 4 berths are fairly guaranteed to Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea and that the 4th is down to Man City or Spurs. We have been close to a challenge last year but it seems that the amount now needing to be spent is beyond Randy's finances.
So I would propose an alternative ; a club centred on its fans and its locality. By this I mean :
a) trimming the squad and wages so that the club pays its way.
b) which goes with (a) - continuing to develop our youth set-up as a cheap way to build talent for the team
c) focusing player buying on british and wherever possible Midlands talent
d) a new North Stand, the Prince William Stand with a Museum underneath and extension of the Witton lane over the road - a 56,000 seater
e) Follow the german league and set ticket prices at absolute rock-bottom ; £10 a game for all stands except the Trinity. Make watching football what it used to be - mass entertainment. 2/3 of Villas' revenues arent matchday anway
f) set our sights on achieving the best in the league and especially the cups, and establish the 'Villa way' of football - fast entertaining and energy (kind of like when you see Arsenal play they have a way of doing it)
I think if the owner did these things and made it clear that Villa was firstly part of our city and region and not a 'global brand' then a lot of the enjoyment would come back to the place. It would be returning to our roots and values and not trying to be another Chelsea or Man City - they have sold their souls.
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Crikey.
I don't know what's more barmy, the Prince William stand, or expecting 56,000 people to come and watch a team made up on youth products and local players get relegated.
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Ulster?
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If ever they rename it Prince William Stand I might have to put a Suspect Device in it.
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Crikey.
I don't know what's more barmy, the Prince William stand, or expecting 56,000 people to come and watch a team made up on youth products and local players get relegated.
I disagree that the ONLY thing that drives attendance is your league position. So many people now feel alienated by the prices , the 'like a church' atmosphere and the lack of any connection with the players who seem to have no loyalty to the club, city , area whatsover.
Are you saying there is only one way ? Its Champions League qualification, players on 80 grand a week and executive seats or nothing ?
A metropolis like the West Midlands should be able to support one club with gates of 50,000
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On the playing front we should be bold.
How many teams in the premiership have blooded so many youngsters in one season!
By my reckoning the following had not started a premiership game before this season (Clark had only started 1);
Lichaj, Baker, Herd, Hogg, Bannan, Delfouneso, Albrighton. Weiman & Gardner may have been added to list if not long term injured at start of season.
IMO this should be the future whatever division we play in next season. Add a couple of leaders on the pitch. Get rid of all the moaners & complainers (and reduce the massive wage bill at the same time).
No Stephen Ireland nor Joey Barton - good footballers they may be but the Villa of Johnny Dixon, Dennis Mortimer et al should not be sullied by them.
UTV
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I think IFWalters raises some excellent and interesting points, we need to set some new objectives if we cant realistically reach/compete with the top 4, we dont want to become a feeder club to the big 4 but somehow we do need to reinvent ourselves
Excellent out of the box thinking
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I am on crack and this thread is too serious for me.
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Great idea! I'd be happy with a cup every year or two and a passionate home grown team. Make thẹ city proud!. Top idea.
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There would have to be a lot of people suddenly become aware of the smoke and mirrors of the PL and decide to set their own agenda for "success".
We would need a tipping point of consensus. I for one would look to a more ethical and inclusive future where fans are recognised as a part of the club in more than words...
To be respected, achieve and fail with grace (but still win something occasionally) while enjoying the release of the game is an aim I can agree with.
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All this is very well, but as we've seen lately, once we're seen to stop 'competing' I'm Not Renewing My Season Ticket takes over.
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Sadly, the chances of the team that charges £10 to get in winning much are slim. As for the Prince William Stand, either that's a wind up or fuck off. Sorry.
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I'm all for the £10 bit, but Prince William Stand? Nothing against the guy, but what's he done to deserve that suggestion?
If the North Stand is ever replaced the new structure should be called The Witton End - nothing else.
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ok, I'll cancel the Prince William Stand.
instead, and in the spirit of including the fans, I would suggest a vote for Villa's all-time best player who the stand wold be named after.
A committee including the clubs owners, team captain, fan representatives and club historians to come up with a shortlist of 5 names.
Fans can vote at each home match they attend in a season at electronic touch screens set up inside the ground.
Oh, and while we're at it. I would like to see us return to Acorns sponsorship. FXPro isnt worthy of our team.
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The problem I have with this is that in modern football not moving forward is moving backwards and aiming to be a mid table PL team is a recipe for relegation.
If we get these young local players in the side, an idea I'm in favour of in principal, then not goign on to pay them the going rate will see them leave. OK, we could re-invest the money, but again unless we're paying the going rate we'll end up with 2nd rate players coming in. As I said - recipe for relegation.
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A pedant writes:
Principal – (adjective) first or highest in rank; (noun) a chief or head
Principle – (noun) an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct
I await the invective.
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I think we do need to improve and we will in time the North Stand will hopefully be replaced in the not too distance future but naming it the Prince William stand i wouldn't wan't that.
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We should either look to compete at the top as a business or bugger off to the conference as a football club.
Fucking around in mid table - or fighting relegation - at post-SKY prices is no future at all.
I don't like the idea of a Prince William stand either. Although if we were to enlarge the Witton Lane stand no doubt it would have to incorporate a tunnel for the road. We could compromise and name that one after his mother.
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I don't like the idea of a Prince William stand either. Although if we were to enlarge the Witton Lane stand no doubt it would have to incorporate a tunnel for the road. We could compromise and name that one after his mother.
That's tremendously harsh.
Fucking funny, but harsh.
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ok, I'll cancel the Prince William Stand.
instead, and in the spirit of including the fans, I would suggest a vote for Villa's all-time best player who the stand wold be named after.
A committee including the clubs owners, team captain, fan representatives and club historians to come up with a shortlist of 5 names.
Fans can vote at each home match they attend in a season at electronic touch screens set up inside the ground.
Oh, and while we're at it. I would like to see us return to Acorns sponsorship. FXPro isnt worthy of our team.
A good idea not to have too much democracy with the vote. Otherwise we'll end up with the John Carew stand.
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Oh, and while we're at it. I would like to see us return to Acorns sponsorship. FXPro isnt worthy of our team.
I wouldn't be surprised if we did. Especially if we go down.
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At what point did we develop this curious idea that competing is beneath us, as is sponsorship?
Is the Villa Way to promote ourselves as a latter day Corinthians?
John touched upon it earlier, but when you set a target you more often than not fall short. If our amended target is to coast and just make up the numbers, and we fall short of that we'll be facing more seasons like this one.
We couldn't keep the likes of Barry and Milner despite looking like one of the better sides in the league at that stage. You can see with just one bad season even the likes of Ashley Young has doubts about fulfilling his ambitions here.
Setting out our stall not to compete will mean that the likes of Albrighton, Bannan and Delph- if they're good enough- will soon be planning an exit strategy too. If they're supposed to form the core of this new approach, what then?
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Nice point, IF Walters, but would you still admit overseas fans or not? :-)
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Nice point, IF Walters, but would you still admit overseas fans or not? :-)
So long as your Villa heritage can be established, ie born/family relationships/lived/living/ within the Lozells, Halford Drive, Church Lane,Aston Cross boundaries then you should be Ok and not considered a glory hunting sort.
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Nice point, IF Walters, but would you still admit overseas fans or not? :-)
So long as your Villa heritage can be established, ie born/family relationships/lived/living/ within the Lozells, Halford Drive, Church Lane,Aston Cross boundaries then you should be Ok and not considered a glory hunting sort.
That's me fucked. Can I have some sort of second-class associate supporter status?
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I really like the idea of having players play for the Villa who actually care about the club rather than some of the overpaid, over rated tossers who don't give a shit who are currently wearing claret and blue. I also like the idea of paying £10 a ticket and sitting in a massive crowd. Maybe with that price I might be able to afford to come with the kids in a few years time when they're old enough.
Let's be honest, we're not going to win the league any time soon unless things change drastically in football. I feel for our owners, they're trying to do it right but the problem here is football and not necessarily Villa. I'd like us to make a stand against the way football is going because I no longer love it.
(I type this watching the golf on the tv rather than match of the day)
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Nice point, IF Walters, but would you still admit overseas fans or not? :-)
So long as your Villa heritage can be established, ie born/family relationships/lived/living/ within the Lozells, Halford Drive, Church Lane,Aston Cross boundaries then you should be Ok and not considered a glory hunting sort.
That's me fucked. Can I have some sort of second-class associate supporter status?
Certainly for you Dave.......for the appropriate fee!
I'll leave it to others to decide what that should be
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Some really interesting ideas. Although I've gotta say I think the idea of the Prince William stand is horrific!! Now a David Cameron stand and a Michael Jackson statue on the other hand well.....
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Ive cancelled the PWS so nothing more to say about that.
Re the vote for the stand name, I did add that FIRST a committee of those who know and care about the club's history should come up with the 5 names on the shortlist. A committee say of Woodhall, Lerner, HDE, Laursen etc. Names like Waring,McGrath, Mortimer etc...
Now in terms of the playing staff I am not saying we wouldnt pay top whack for top players - the kind of player I would like us to sign is Daniel Sturridge - local and scellent. Is he worth £80k a week - NO - offer him £50k and the HONOUR of playing for his local team. If he doesnt value honour then he's not worthy of the shirt.
Listening to some of the comments on here is like listening to a bunch of debt-addicted governments 4 years ago - THE ONLY WAY IS SPEND !!! I dont want Villa to become the next Leeds
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Now in terms of the playing staff I am not saying we wouldnt pay top whack for top players - the kind of player I would like us to sign is Daniel Sturridge - local and scellent. Is he worth £80k a week - NO - offer him £50k and the HONOUR of playing for his local team. If he doesnt value honour then he's not worthy of the shirt.
Yeah, I can see that working a treat.
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So what you're saying is we should become like Barcelona but pay our players less?
Nice one.
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We need support from wherever we can get it and we shouldn't be excluding 'glory hunters'. Of course it's vital our identity as the pride of Birmingham remains intact but what we need is a full Villa Park every week cheering the villa on.
I have no family ties in Birmingham and have been supporting villa since about 1994. I don't think I could be accused of glory hunting!The reality is we need our overseas support. There's thousands of Villa fans here in Ireland and I'm sure the club are glad of the revenue we help generate.
As for the new North Stand, surely the Ron Saunders Stand would be much more appropriate as a name?
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IV the words tongue and cheek come to mind mind you if it can catch Dave out....
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You're not allowed inside Villa Park unless you have bacon sandwiches WITHOUT butter.
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What Bacon with butter?
So very northern!
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IFWaters - have you been injecting pure 100% naivety?!
I'm all for trying something new but suggesting we can have a successful team, whilst charging 1970s prices, getting top players to play for honour - which platform at New St did the train to Cloud Cuckoo Land leave from?!
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I think the fact that you find this so naive sums up everything wrong with football now and why more and more people are losing their attachment to the game. Honour counts for nothing now, it is ALL about money. Compared to the days of Shankly, Saunders etc there are no heroes left. Its like you are saying we should cheer on a bunch of greedy city traders BECUASE they are so greedy and that is all that matters. Well, not for me, anymore, which is why I posted.
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It's not about the money money money
We dont need your money money money
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Well, that's me sold, Wiki!
The Villa becoming the PL's version of Athletic Bilbao, eh? It's an interesting concept.