Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 03, 2011, 02:06:49 PM
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http://www.sundaymercury.net/midlands-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-fc-news/2011/04/03/aston-villa-doug-ellis-taken-to-hospital-after-fall-66331-28448926/
FORMER Aston Villa chairman Doug Ellis had to be checked out in hospital after a fall while on holiday in Spain.
The 87 year-old businessman took a tumble as he left a restaurant in Palma, on the sun-kissed island of Majorca, last Friday.
Elderly Doug refused to be treated abroad and instead flew back to the UK.
He was seen by his private doctor who gave him the all-clear.
He travelled to Merseyside yesterday to watch his beloved Villa draw with Everton.
Last night Heidi, his wife of 48 years, said he had recovered well from the fall.
“He came out of the restaurant and stumbled down some stairs,” she told the Sunday Mercury.
“You never want to have a fall at his age but he was not seriously hurt.
“We came back the day afterwards and Doug went to our wonderful doctor for a check-up. It was just cuts and bruises.
“He did not spend any time in bed because of it, and he has been up and about. He went off to the Everton game yesterday, which I think shows he is on the mend.”
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The old bastard cushioned the fall when he landed on his wallet
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Didn't he invent stumbling down stairs ?
Get well soon Herbert
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I may be wrong but I think Dr Venglos has retired so perhaps he just treats his old employers.
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His devotion to the Villa is something else. To still be up and down the country every other week is some dedication. Get well soon, Doug.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
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Herbert drives himself doesnt he, or has that changed recently ?
Often used to see him hogging the middle lane doing 72mph in his RR Phantom (AV1)
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He drives himself.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
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He also sits in The Holte for 1 game each season, didn't he do it vs Blackburn this season ?
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
He doesn't have to go. Considering his wealth and age, I think it's great that he still follows us around. If I had his millions I doubt i'd spend my twilight years travelling around the country watching the Villa, i'd be off enjoying the sun.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
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Didn't he invent stumbling down stairs ?
Get well soon Herbert
He was demonstrating a bicycle kick when he left the restaurant.
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Herbert drives himself doesnt he, or has that changed recently ?
Often used to see him hogging the middle lane doing 72mph in his RR Phantom (AV1)
Yes but don't let the facts get in the way of "london lion's" unjustified prejudice.Good old Doug ,hope he's still going until he's 100 !!
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
I would hardly say "Let's see you do it at 87" if he wasn't 87 would I? And if you're looking for attention, there are much better ways than your silly little second bit.
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After some of the royal slaggings doug has took in your publication,your cosying up to him is sickening
When did your attitude change ?
After you got your feet well under the table at the Villa ?
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After some of the royal slaggings doug has took in your publication,your cosying up to him is sickening
When did your attitude change ?
After you got your feet well under the table at the Villa ?
He paid me. Didn't you know?
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After some of the royal slaggings doug has took in your publication,your cosying up to him is sickening
When did your attitude change ?
After you got your feet well under the table at the Villa ?
I'm not sure intelligent debate is your strong point.
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After some of the royal slaggings doug has took in your publication,your cosying up to him is sickening
When did your attitude change ?
After you got your feet well under the table at the Villa ?
He paid me. Didn't you know?
They say many a true word is said in jest
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After some of the royal slaggings doug has took in your publication,your cosying up to him is sickening
When did your attitude change ?
After you got your feet well under the table at the Villa ?
He paid me. Didn't you know?
They say many a true word is said in jest
Keep it to yourself, will you? I wouldn't want anyone else finding out.
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I'm sure he isnt, but it makes him sound a bit of a Prince Phillip type character, untrusting of Johnny Foreigner knowing anything about medical matters.
Take it easy Doug, we want all our fans fighting fit for the cause.
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After some of the royal slaggings doug has took in your publication,your cosying up to him is sickening
When did your attitude change ?
After you got your feet well under the table at the Villa ?
He paid me. Didn't you know?
They say many a true word is said in jest
Keep it to yourself, will you? I wouldn't want anyone else finding out.
That reminds me Dave, is there a spare place in the exec box for me on Sunday?
Ta.
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After some of the royal slaggings doug has took in your publication,your cosying up to him is sickening
When did your attitude change ?
After you got your feet well under the table at the Villa ?
He paid me. Didn't you know?
They say many a true word is said in jest
Keep it to yourself, will you? I wouldn't want anyone else finding out.
That reminds me Dave, is there a spare place in the exec box for me on Sunday?
Ta.
No problem. I'm with the directors.
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No problem. I'm with the directors.
Okay, i'll stick with the Lager.
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You're all idiots.
Obviously Dave W, Mr Ellis fell because that 'restaurant' in Majorca was in fact a secret crisis meeting with the loathsome G Houllier. Houllier left first (thereby ducking la cuenta) and some of his 'smarm' must have greased the steps on the way out - much as a slimy slug might leave a trail. Hence Doug's fall. Damn Frenchman.
However - if you are of London Lion's point of view - the reason Doug made it to the Everton game is because that gallic dastard Gerard H personally drove him there and supplied him with blood thinning garlic capsules, thereby prolonging the tyrant's life. God - is there no depth to which this French fiend will not stoop?
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
Madrid and Majorca are worlds apart !
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
NHS ? Something tells me Doug probably heads in the direction of Little Aston hospital rather than Good Hope.
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
Madrid and Majorca are worlds apart !
Eh? Based on what??? I've been to hospials in both and they are superb. Doug 'refusing' treatment is a bit pathetic.
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
Madrid and Majorca are worlds apart !
Eh? Based on what??? I've been to hospials in both and they are superb. Doug 'refusing' treatment is a bit pathetic.
I had to be treated in Torrevieja hospital a couple of years back. Have to say, they were fantastic. Had to have an operation for the same problem, at Russell's Hall, when I got back. World apart.
And we've passed Doug on the motorway twice this year on the way to matches. On both occasions he was sat in the passenger seat.
Still, I admire him for his obvious love of Villa still.
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
Madrid and Majorca are worlds apart !
Eh? Based on what??? I've been to hospials in both and they are superb. Doug 'refusing' treatment is a bit pathetic.
It was up to him wasnt it really.........the article doesnt say "Doug refused treatment as did not trust Spanish doctors does it ??? No need for you to call him pathetic
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I was in Palma recently. Disgusted. Couldn't get a full-English for love nor money. And could you get a decent cuppa? Could you fuck!
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
Madrid and Majorca are worlds apart !
Eh? Based on what??? I've been to hospials in both and they are superb. Doug 'refusing' treatment is a bit pathetic.
It was up to him wasnt it really.........the article doesnt say "Doug refused treatment as did not trust Spanish doctors does it ??? No need for you to call him pathetic
And who's to say his private doctor is English anyway?
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Yawn.
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I was in Palma recently. Disgusted. Couldn't get a full-English for love nor money. And could you get a decent cuppa? Could you fuck!
You should have gone to Madrid,the place is crawling with those type of establishments .
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And we've passed Doug on the motorway twice this year on the way to matches. On both occasions he was sat in the passenger seat.
The bastard.
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
Madrid and Majorca are worlds apart !
Eh? Based on what??? I've been to hospials in both and they are superb. Doug 'refusing' treatment is a bit pathetic.
It was up to him wasnt it really.........the article doesnt say "Doug refused treatment as did not trust Spanish doctors does it ??? No need for you to call him pathetic
And who's to say his private doctor is English anyway?
Thats true, I think it some affable old Czech bloke.
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And we've passed Doug on the motorway twice this year on the way to matches. On both occasions he was sat in the passenger seat.
The bastard.
Wasn't ctiticising him. I couldn't give a monkey's if he drives himself or not. Was just stating that he doesn't always drive.
Of course, that's not to say he doesn't drive himself sometimes too.
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I think ALITA was joking...
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Ah, in that case I forgive him.
Besides if I was Doug, i'd be chauffered everywhere!!!
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A fall at his age can be very serious, it's often the beginning of the end for a lot of elderly people so it's fortunate for him that he's been given the all clear.
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Yes I was joking.
Mind you I do object to the despicable Houllier sitting on his fat lazy french arse on the team bus when he could be in the drivers seat. Probably some insurance thing, driving along on the wrong side of the road with tens of millions worth of talent behind you.
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His devotion to the Villa is something else. To still be up and down the country every other week is some dedication. Get well soon, Doug.
I second that. There are very few away games he doesn't get to - and even if was being flown door to door by helicopter it would still be a worthy effort. Free tickets or not - Wigan away for a midweek night match in freezing January can be a miserable night out for the youngest and fittest of us.
Compare that to the chairman of West Ham who felt it too much hassle to get to The Sty in January for his team's cup semi-final.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Whatever he's done is all in the past. The mans Villa through and through and you simply can't question his dedication to our club.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Whatever he's done is all in the past. The mans Villa through and through and you simply can't question his dedication to our club.
Hear Hear ! (although I'm truly grateful for his actions in 1968)
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Anyway, I wonder if it was the same bar where I stumbled out and fell down the stairs after slurping all their Anima Negra tinto.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Whatever he's done is all in the past. The mans Villa through and through and you simply can't question his dedication to our club.
Agreed.
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In my 50 odd years of following the Villa, there have been times when Doug has been [in my view] a cross between the Devil incarnate and Ebeneezer Scrooge.
Today he is an elderly man who gets by extremely well for his age, I hope I am visiting Restraunts at the age of 87.
He is also showing his love of A,V.which despite my early views,I guess can not be challenged.
Get well and keep well Doug.
I hope this is not a prematue Eulogy
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I'm glad he his OK i have met him on a couple of occasions always stops to chat loves the Villa.
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Fair play to him at his age to be still getting to the games, he had his faults but was nowhere near as bad as some portray- I wish him all the best and thank him for his efforts for our club.
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Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
It's *you're* as in, 'you are'. Please get this right or Bad English will garrote a kitten.
When did Woodhall start speaking for us all anyway? Doesn't he just flog a fanzine to away punters who think its a programme?
:P
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I won't go the revisionist route and say Herbert is great and did well for us, but I still think he's a Villa man at heart otherwise he'd have cashed in and we would never have seen him at Villa Park again.
I think it's a bit distasteful of anybody wishing ill towards him.
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Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
It's *you're* as in, 'you are'. Please get this right or Bad English will garrote a kitten.
When did Woodhall start speaking for us all anyway? Doesn't he just flog a fanzine to away punters who think its a programme?
:P
Pedant warning !
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When did Woodhall start speaking for us all anyway?
If somebody is going to talk for me, it needs to be with a clipped Etonian accent, not an unitelligible Tipton drawl.
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I won't go the revisionist route and say Herbert is great and did well for us, but I still think he's a Villa man at heart otherwise he'd have cashed in and we would never have seen him at Villa Park again.
I think it's a bit distasteful of anybody wishing ill towards him.
That's how I see it aswell Mark.
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Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
It's *you're* as in, 'you are'. Please get this right or Bad English will garrote a kitten.
When did Woodhall start speaking for us all anyway? Doesn't he just flog a fanzine to away punters who think its a programme?
:P
Not just away punters. Home ones as well.
This sums up my feelings on the subject:
In my 50 odd years of following the Villa, there have been times when Doug has been [in my view] a cross between the Devil incarnate and Ebeneezer Scrooge.
Today he is an elderly man who gets by extremely well for his age, I hope I am visiting Restraunts at the age of 87.
He is also showing his love of A,V.which despite my early views,I guess can not be challenged.
Get well and keep well Doug.
I hope this is not a prematue Eulogy
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Whatever Ellis's ways, means or judgements, he remains a Villa man and anyone travelling up and down to watch them - free ticket or not - at 87 years of age, deserves respect.
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There is no point having bile / hate toward Doug Ellis. We know he love Aston Villa and tried his best whatever his decisions or policy are popular or unpopular.
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Well said salsa!
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For someone who recently trousered the best part of £30m, to be spending a Saturday afternoon in Liverpool watching Villa this season at 87 years old shows he's either completely wacko or has a deep affection for the club. I think we all now its the latter
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I am not going to pretend he was only a force for good for the club - that is far from the truth. However, maybe we should let bygones be bygones.
After the Blackburn semi at home last season, with the crowd on the pitch and the celebrations going on, i sat there to the end, and wandered down to the front row of the Upper Trinity and looked down into the corporate seats.
They were absolutely empty other than for Doug and his Mrs sat there in their seats watching the celebrations. I thought that said quite a lot about what he thought of the club.
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He was not great a lot of the time. However he could have sold the club to much worse owners, and as Paulie says let bygones be bygones and he clearly cares for the club. I hope he recovers quickly.
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I was in Palma recently. Disgusted. Couldn't get a full-English for love nor money. And could you get a decent cuppa? Could you fuck!
You should have gone to Madrid,the place is crawling with those type of establishments .
Yeah, the over-priced Irish pubs.
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I liked the bit about him refusing to be treated abroad.
I had to make use of a Spanish hospital when I fell ill while working in Madrid and they were fantastic, as good as anything I've seen over here (and I'm a big fan of the NHS and the service they provide).
Madrid and Majorca are worlds apart !
Eh? Based on what??? I've been to hospials in both and they are superb. Doug 'refusing' treatment is a bit pathetic.
It was up to him wasnt it really.........the article doesnt say "Doug refused treatment as did not trust Spanish doctors does it ??? No need for you to call him pathetic
True, I was basing my comment on Andy_Lochheads line about refusing treated abroad.
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I am not going to pretend he was only a force for good for the club - that is far from the truth. However, maybe we should let bygones be bygones.
After the Blackburn semi at home last season, with the crowd on the pitch and the celebrations going on, i sat there to the end, and wandered down to the front row of the Upper Trinity and looked down into the corporate seats.
They were absolutely empty other than for Doug and his Mrs sat there in their seats watching the celebrations. I thought that said quite a lot about what he thought of the club.
I agree and everything he did was maybe not so good,but the things that were good helped us to survive and make us a viable propostion for Mr.Lerner to take the club on.I have nothing but utmost respect for him and am pleased to be a season ticket holder in the stand that carries his name, not the "Witton Lane Stand" which a few people on here prefer to refer to it .Good on you ,Doug.
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And to think i was worried this thread was about Cuellar!
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What's the Old Codger playing at...I know if i was 87 and had pockets full of cash,i be on a cruise ship sailing round the world,getting my belly button tickled by some Dolly bird.
Football is a young man's game..just look at Hugh Hefner..now thats what i call living Life to the full.
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It is the Witton Lane stand.
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I am not going to pretend he was only a force for good for the club - that is far from the truth. However, maybe we should let bygones be bygones.
After the Blackburn semi at home last season, with the crowd on the pitch and the celebrations going on, i sat there to the end, and wandered down to the front row of the Upper Trinity and looked down into the corporate seats.
They were absolutely empty other than for Doug and his Mrs sat there in their seats watching the celebrations. I thought that said quite a lot about what he thought of the club.
I agree and everything he did was maybe not so good,but the things that were good helped us to survive and make us a viable propostion for Mr.Lerner to take the club on.I have nothing but utmost respect for him and am pleased to be a season ticket holder in the stand that carries his name, not the "Witton Lane Stand" which a few people on here prefer to refer to it .Good on you ,Doug.
Bloody hell. Time might have made people look at Doug with a bit of a kinder view than once was the case, but actually being PLEASED that you sit in a renamed stand?
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It is the Witton Lane stand.
Should be renamed The Dennis Mortimer Stand.
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I am not going to pretend he was only a force for good for the club - that is far from the truth. However, maybe we should let bygones be bygones.
After the Blackburn semi at home last season, with the crowd on the pitch and the celebrations going on, i sat there to the end, and wandered down to the front row of the Upper Trinity and looked down into the corporate seats.
They were absolutely empty other than for Doug and his Mrs sat there in their seats watching the celebrations. I thought that said quite a lot about what he thought of the club.
I agree and everything he did was maybe not so good,but the things that were good helped us to survive and make us a viable propostion for Mr.Lerner to take the club on.I have nothing but utmost respect for him and am pleased to be a season ticket holder in the stand that carries his name, not the "Witton Lane Stand" which a few people on here prefer to refer to it .Good on you ,Doug.
Like others have said, it's the Witton Lane Stand, always has been, always should be. Oh and it's not just a few people on here who prefer to refer to it as that.
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My mate was in the corporates on Saturday and met Doug, he looked well.
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I think we will rename it when he pops his clogs, bless him!
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The arguement for Doug is that we could have had a lot worse owners and Chairman.
The arguement against is he really never maximised or recognised the potential of the Club.
It could have been a lot worse, it could have been a lot better.
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The arguement for Doug is that we could have had a lot worse owners and Chairman.
The arguement against is he really never maximised or recognised the potential of the Club.
It could have been a lot worse, it could have been a lot better.
And that is pretty much spot on.
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Ah well..............false alarm. I can see i'm never going to get at that 20 year old Talisker if him and Thatcher have their way.
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I dont mind the Doug Ellis Stand now, he deserves it :'(
The North Stand does need a new name now though
thread ??
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I did my school work experience at the Villa Souvenir Shop for 2 weeks many moons ago, and met Doug whilst I was working there. (I also met Yorke, Richardson and Big Ron). About 18 months later I was in a queue in the ticket office and Doug was in there and recognised me and spent about 15 mins talking to me and asking how I was finding things now I'd left school. Considering I'd only briefly met him as a school trainee all that time previous I was amazed he knew who I was!
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It is the Witton Lane stand.
Should be renamed The Dennis Mortimer Stand.
A discussion for another time and place, but I can think of other people more deserving a stand named after them than Dennis Mortimer. (Not taking away his legendary status in Villa history).
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Time doesn't diminish the harm he did my club. I don't wish him or anyone ill for that matter, but I don't buy this 'Uncle Doug' BS, just because, frankly, he is getting old and his health will continue to deteriate until its inevitable conclusion. He still is the man who never put a penny of his own money into the club and held us back because his ego couldn't let go. Mr Aston Villa my arse - that title can go to the old timers who have paid to watch the club out of their wage packets for the last 50 or so years.
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I am not going to pretend he was only a force for good for the club - that is far from the truth. However, maybe we should let bygones be bygones.
After the Blackburn semi at home last season, with the crowd on the pitch and the celebrations going on, i sat there to the end, and wandered down to the front row of the Upper Trinity and looked down into the corporate seats.
They were absolutely empty other than for Doug and his Mrs sat there in their seats watching the celebrations. I thought that said quite a lot about what he thought of the club.
I agree and everything he did was maybe not so good,but the things that were good helped us to survive and make us a viable propostion for Mr.Lerner to take the club on.I have nothing but utmost respect for him and am pleased to be a season ticket holder in the stand that carries his name, not the "Witton Lane Stand" which a few people on here prefer to refer to it .Good on you ,Doug.
I wouldn't go that far, nor anywhere near. Off the top of my head I can think of at least a dozen more deserving names.
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Time doesn't diminish the harm he did my club. I don't wish him or anyone ill for that matter, but I don't buy this 'Uncle Doug' BS, just because, frankly, he is getting old and his health will continue to deteriate until its inevitable conclusion. He still is the man who never put a penny of his own money into the club and held us back because his ego couldn't let go. Mr Aston Villa my arse - that title can go to the old timers who have paid to watch the club out of their wage packets for the last 50 or so years.
Aye. why is it when people get old everyone goes soft on them? They're still the same person. How much did he pocket from the sale of Villa and over the years in salary? If he was "Mr. Aston Villa" he would have walked away with nowt
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Time doesn't diminish the harm he did my club. I don't wish him or anyone ill for that matter, but I don't buy this 'Uncle Doug' BS, just because, frankly, he is getting old and his health will continue to deteriate until its inevitable conclusion. He still is the man who never put a penny of his own money into the club and held us back because his ego couldn't let go. Mr Aston Villa my arse - that title can go to the old timers who have paid to watch the club out of their wage packets for the last 50 or so years.
Aye. why is it when people get old everyone goes soft on them? They're still the same person. How much did he pocket from the sale of Villa and over the years in salary? If he was "Mr. Aston Villa" he would have walked away with nowt
Of course he should. Don't even try to pretend that you would have.
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Time doesn't diminish the harm he did my club. I don't wish him or anyone ill for that matter, but I don't buy this 'Uncle Doug' BS, just because, frankly, he is getting old and his health will continue to deteriate until its inevitable conclusion. He still is the man who never put a penny of his own money into the club and held us back because his ego couldn't let go. Mr Aston Villa my arse - that title can go to the old timers who have paid to watch the club out of their wage packets for the last 50 or so years.
Aye. why is it when people get old everyone goes soft on them? They're still the same person. How much did he pocket from the sale of Villa and over the years in salary? If he was "Mr. Aston Villa" he would have walked away with nowt
Of course he should. Don't even try to pretend that you would have.
bollocks. He's a businessman. He'd have milked Blose given half the chance and be driving round in a car with BCFC1 on it
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bollocks. He's a businessman. He'd have milked Blose given half the chance and be driving round in car with BCFC1 on it
Except he had the chance, and didn't. As has been pointed out time and again, it's a strange sort of not caring about a club that sees someone of any age turning up all over the country to watch a football match when he could be doing something a lot more enjoyable somewhere a lot warmer.
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bollocks. He's a businessman. He'd have milked Blose given half the chance and be driving round in car with BCFC1 on it
Except he had the chance, and didn't. As has been pointed out time and again, it's a strange sort of not caring about a club that sees someone of any age turning up all over the country to watch a football match when he could be doing something a lot more enjoyable somewhere a lot warmer.
well i don't know your finances Dave but if someome gave me 30m in exchange for following a club round till i die i'd probably take it
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bollocks. He's a businessman. He'd have milked Blose given half the chance and be driving round in car with BCFC1 on it
Except he had the chance, and didn't. As has been pointed out time and again, it's a strange sort of not caring about a club that sees someone of any age turning up all over the country to watch a football match when he could be doing something a lot more enjoyable somewhere a lot warmer.
well i don't know your finances Dave but if someome gave me 30m in exchange for following a club round till i die i'd probably take it
He doesn't have to go. That's the entire point. He could do whatever he wants, but it's his choice to watch the Villa. Home, away, first team, youth team, weekend, midweek. Now whatever he did or didn't do as chairman, tell me that's the behaviour of someone who doesn't care about the club.
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bollocks. He's a businessman. He'd have milked Blose given half the chance and be driving round in car with BCFC1 on it
Except he had the chance, and didn't. As has been pointed out time and again, it's a strange sort of not caring about a club that sees someone of any age turning up all over the country to watch a football match when he could be doing something a lot more enjoyable somewhere a lot warmer.
well i don't know your finances Dave but if someome gave me 30m in exchange for following a club round till i die i'd probably take it
He doesn't have to go. That's the entire point. He could do whatever he wants, but it's his choice to watch the Villa. Home, away, first team, youth team, weekend, midweek. Now whatever he did or didn't dfo as chairman, tell me that's the behaviour of someone who doesn't care about the club.
no you're missing the point. He misses the control, he misses the celebrity by association and he misses the money Villa earned him. Now he's just an old fart desperately remembering his glory days. He cares about us in the same way a 1 hit wonder remembers his 30 seconds (years?) of fame, but love?
no.
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He clearly cares for Aston Villa. Even if he started with money making intentions, even if he was not the best person (the richest) to run the club at times, even if he did bottle it on making that extra transfer happen at times.
If you spend a large portion of your life totally involved in something then you are going to be a part of it and it will be important to you. I wrote to Doug many years ago telling him to move on and he wrote back. It was probably a standard response letter but I did give him a little respect for that.
In the history of Aston Villa he is an important figure and yes it is easy to focus on the penny pinching, money making aspects of his rule. I wanted him out and I wanted a richer more progressive person to take the club on. But in retrospect, after that relegation time, I am not unhappy that we had someone like Doug and not a half arsed owner that would run at the first sign of trouble or financial insecurity. I do however wish my season ticket said Witton on it and not Doug.
What I do not understand is how anyone can dislike an elderly man who spends his free time watching the team he supports
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bollocks. He's a businessman. He'd have milked Blose given half the chance and be driving round in car with BCFC1 on it
Except he had the chance, and didn't. As has been pointed out time and again, it's a strange sort of not caring about a club that sees someone of any age turning up all over the country to watch a football match when he could be doing something a lot more enjoyable somewhere a lot warmer.
well i don't know your finances Dave but if someome gave me 30m in exchange for following a club round till i die i'd probably take it
He doesn't have to go. That's the entire point. He could do whatever he wants, but it's his choice to watch the Villa. Home, away, first team, youth team, weekend, midweek. Now whatever he did or didn't dfo as chairman, tell me that's the behaviour of someone who doesn't care about the club.
no you're missing the point. He misses the control, he misses the celebrity by association and he misses the money Villa earned him. Now he's just an old fart desperately remembering his glory days. He cares about us in the same way a 1 hit wonder remembers his 30 seconds (years?) of fame, but love?
no.
Do you still reckon he pulls the strings as well?
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i reckon he got quite a few proviso's when he sold the club yes. Say what you like about the blose but they haven't got a Kumar stand or wolves a Bhatti stand. Embarassing.
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The arguement for Doug is that we could have had a lot worse owners and Chairman.
The arguement against is he really never maximised or recognised the potential of the Club.
It could have been a lot worse, it could have been a lot better.
Hurrah for mediocrity!
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i reckon he got quite a few proviso's when he sold the club yes. Say what you like about the blose but they haven't got a Kumar stand or wolves a Bhatti stand. Embarassing.
Doug's still in control. Nice to see the old gregnash back.
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no you're missing the point. He misses the control, he misses the celebrity by association and he misses the money Villa earned him. Now he's just an old fart desperately remembering his glory days. He cares about us in the same way a 1 hit wonder remembers his 30 seconds (years?) of fame, but love?
no.
How the fuck do you know what he misses, or what he wants to remember? You don't half talk some fucking bollocks, Greg. Even for you, the above is absolutely crazy.
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The arguement for Doug is that we could have had a lot worse owners and Chairman.
The arguement against is he really never maximised or recognised the potential of the Club.
It could have been a lot worse, it could have been a lot better.
Hurrah for mediocrity!
I know it's going over old ground, but we had less mediocrity under Doug than during any lengthy period for almost a century. We tended to veer from good to staggeringly awful on a regular basis. It was rare that we were average.
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bottom line is we were going broke. Our last accounts before the takeover was something like a 6-8m loss in 6 months and Ellis desperately trying to sell land. Usually you don't keep a stand named after a chairman who nearly puts you in administration especially one who used to whitter on about how he was such a steady hand at the the tiller compared to the risdale's of this world. If RL hadn't turned up we wouldn't have this revisionism
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no you're missing the point. He misses the control, he misses the celebrity by association and he misses the money Villa earned him. Now he's just an old fart desperately remembering his glory days. He cares about us in the same way a 1 hit wonder remembers his 30 seconds (years?) of fame, but love?
no.
How the fuck do you know what he misses, or what he wants to remember? You don't half talk some fucking bollocks, Greg. Even for you, the above is absolutely crazy.
he's just a failed travel agent stu. any love he feels towards villa is purely because he associates it with money.. Thats my opinion anyway
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bottom line is we were going broke. Our last accounts before the takeover was something like a 6-8m loss in 6 months and Ellis desperately trying to sell land. Usually you don't keep a stand named after a chairman who nearly puts you in administration especially one who used to whitter on about how he was such a steady hand at the the tiller compared to the risdale's of this world. If RL hadn't turned up we wouldn't have this revisionism
You say we were going broke. Every director I've spoken to says the major reason why Randy bought the club was the healthy state of the accounts. I'll take their word over yours.
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I am not going to pretend he was only a force for good for the club - that is far from the truth. However, maybe we should let bygones be bygones.
A view I've increasingly come around to.
Vain, a serial name dropper, occasional(?) bullshitter, but in his own way he is a Villa fan. I too would be a fan of any pension fund that transformed me from successful small businessman to multi millionaire.
The club gave him status, a chance to hobnob it with the great and the good of football (Beckenbauer, Platini and Cruyff are all 'friends,') and gave him many sons; Little, McGrath and Yorke to name but a few. Not sure what Heidi made of that. Maybe we'll find out in the next book.
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The arguement for Doug is that we could have had a lot worse owners and Chairman.
The arguement against is he really never maximised or recognised the potential of the Club.
It could have been a lot worse, it could have been a lot better.
Hurrah for mediocrity!
I know it's going over old ground, but we had less mediocrity under Doug than during any lengthy period for almost a century. We tended to veer from good to staggeringly awful on a regular basis. It was rare that we were average.
I was taking the piss :P
I seem to remember Gregory's term being a bit average though. There were some great games but I seem to remember us being upper-mid table all the time, not really pulling up any trees and not really ever looking awful. Actually, the football did look awful, but you know what I mean.
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no you're missing the point. He misses the control, he misses the celebrity by association and he misses the money Villa earned him. Now he's just an old fart desperately remembering his glory days. He cares about us in the same way a 1 hit wonder remembers his 30 seconds (years?) of fame, but love?
no.
How the fuck do you know what he misses, or what he wants to remember? You don't half talk some fucking bollocks, Greg. Even for you, the above is absolutely crazy.
he's just a failed travel agent stu. any love he feels towards villa is purely because he associates it with money.. Thats my opinion anyway
A failed travel agent with 10's of millions in the bank. What a useless businessman he is.
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There were times he was good for us. There were times when he was disastrous. And there were times when we did well despite him. His biggest fault may have been that to put it politely, he often blurred the lines between Aston Villa Ltd/PLC and Doug Ellis inc. But ironicallly, those who campaigned loudest against him gave him what he wanted most. They made him Mr Aston Villa.
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I seem to remember Gregory's term being a bit average though. There were some great games but I seem to remember us being upper-mid table all the time, not really pulling up any trees and not really ever looking awful. Actually, the football did look awful, but you know what I mean.
Under Gregory great-to-awful was usually in the same season.
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I seem to remember Gregory's term being a bit average though. There were some great games but I seem to remember us being upper-mid table all the time, not really pulling up any trees and not really ever looking awful. Actually, the football did look awful, but you know what I mean.
Under Gregory great-to-awful was usually in the same season.
Ha ha, yep, quite right. We had bad luck with strikers as well - Dublin cracked a bone in his neck while in good form and Luc Nilis had a career finisher against, erm, I've forgotten now. What a goal against Chelsea though.
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Ha ha, yep, quite right. We had bad luck with strikers as well - Dublin cracked a bone in his neck while in good form and Luc Nilis had a career finisher against, erm, I've forgotten now. What a goal against Chelsea though.
Nilis broke his leg following a clash with then Ipswich Town keeper, Richard Wright.
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bottom line is we were going broke. Our last accounts before the takeover was something like a 6-8m loss in 6 months and Ellis desperately trying to sell land. Usually you don't keep a stand named after a chairman who nearly puts you in administration especially one who used to whitter on about how he was such a steady hand at the the tiller compared to the risdale's of this world. If RL hadn't turned up we wouldn't have this revisionism
You say we were going broke. Every director I've spoken to says the major reason why Randy bought the club was the healthy state of the accounts. I'll take their word over yours.
We didn't have large amounts of debt but we were still broke. If you've got lots of bills coming in that you can't pay it doesn't really matter if you've got nothing in the bank or an overdraft in the red, you still won't be eating. At the time i seem to remember us pulling out of signing a player on loan it was so tight.
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Not necessarily. You can increase your borrowings. I do struggle to recollect that Villa were on the verge of administration just before Randy took over.
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yeah you can borrow money but then you have debt. At the time, he was trying to sell off land so he didn't have to, probably because he was paying people like Lee Hendrie a fortune. This from the guy who made finanical acumen his major boast - the old "hey we may never win nowt but at least we're well run" mantra was starting to look a bit hollow. The last accounts showed we were making serious losses, so that money had to be found from somewhere whether it was taking on debt, selling land or players - only difference between us and the likes of Leeds is RL came in at the start of the collapse rather than the end
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If you think we muddled along with mediocrity when Ellis was in charge you should have been around pre Ellis when the club was variously a Victorian relic and an absentee owners' plaything.
Like many on here I have met Ellis and found him on the whole likable and compared with other entrepreneurs of his generation - of whom I also met and knew a few, from Emile Savundra to Jim Slater to Freddie Laker to Joe Kagan - straight dealing. I found him a vain man but that is not uncommon with self made men who on the whole did more good for Villa than bad. That in the process he did well for himself goes with the principle that entrepreneurs make the world go round. I do not subscribe to that but it is so embedded in the system, like Graham Taylor said in his match summary on Radio 5 last Saturday about losing players on international duty it is a fact of life, so live with it.
Doug Ellis is Doug Ellis. He is part of Villa history. Live with it.
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I'm not trying to erase him from history - if only that were possible, but this post RL revisionism of this cuddly benign ex-owner sticks in my throat somewhat. Its the same sort of guff you get from these people who look back on Thatchers time with fondness like its a an episode of Heartbeat. The best thing you can say about him is he sold the club to someone better - which is a pretty damming assessment really given the length of time he was in charge. Another season of him in charge and no money for players and we'd probably be well used to visiting Championship grounds by now.
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gregnash: yeah you can borrow money but then you have debt. At the time, he was trying to sell off land so he didn't have to, probably because he was paying people like Lee Hendrie a fortune. This from the guy who made finanical acumen his major boast - the old "hey we may never win nowt but at least we're well run" mantra was starting to look a bit hollow. The last accounts showed we were making serious losses, so that money had to be found from somewhere whether it was taking on debt, selling land or players - only difference between us and the likes of Leeds is RL came in at the start of the collapse rather than the end
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The land sale was a straightforward asset swap to enable the purchase of Petrov, whilst under offer from RAL.
If Doug hadn't sold the land he would either have had to refuse to finance the purchase of Petrov or restart the legal processes and due diligence on the sale, with the inevitable delays that would have incurred.
It was actually a classic example of Doug's ability to balance the interests of the business and the team.
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sounds like a classic example of his penny pinching to me
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I do not know your age Greg but I would guess 40ish. I sympathise with your smouldering anger towards HDE but in the 60s and 70s men like Doug were thicker than fleas on a dog's back. Chancers, carpet baggers, opportunists were the order of the day. This brave new breed now revered as entrepreneurial saviours of the nation were everywhere buying and selling everything usually with money they did not have. Along came Thatcher and Greed Is Good and the genre was granted legitimacy. Then came the internet and the big bad wolves in the forest disappeared into the shadows.
All I can say is that Doug Ellis is a lot better than most of his kind of his generation.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
I used to travel from London every week as well sunshine, but I didn't make a point of it. Don't think I could manage it if I live to 87. Just let it go and stop being so bitter.
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i reckon he got quite a few proviso's when he sold the club yes. Say what you like about the blose but they haven't got a Kumar stand or wolves a Bhatti stand. Embarassing.
What an utterly ridiculous analogy. If you were complaining about the Norman Smith or Normansell stand, you may have a point. Who were they ? The people overseeing our decline towards bankruptcy up until 1968.
I am not going to say everything Doug did was wonderful. Anybody spending as many years at the helm of a club our size is unlikely not to provoke debate, and I wanted him to stand down as much as anybody when the protests were occuring a few years back. In my opinion he stayed 5 years too long as chairman.
I think attitudes towards him depend very much on when you started watching Villa. Those of us who were around pre 1968 appreciate what he did for Villa. At that time there were no Russian oligarchs, far east businessmen or oil sheiks clamouring to pour millions into English football clubs. Or for that matter, multi millionaires from across the Atlantic. Funnily enough at the time a story did surface that Phil Woosnam out at Atlanta Chiefs was trying to get some people together to come in but it very quickly became apparent that it was a non starter.
Someone said earlier things may have been better or may have been worse if Doug hadnt have been there. Lets look at the possible worse scenario, because the reality back then is there were no other credible candidates to come in and save the club. There was a very real possibility Aston Villa could have gone out of business. Bankrupt, out of existence, no more.....I am not exaggerating here! As a result of that being allowed to happen, what you would probably have these days would be a club playing its football at Birchfield stadium in front of 8,000 people. A club run by a company under the name Aston Villa (1970) Limited. There would have been no championship in 1981, no European Cup in 1982, no Withe, no Mortimer, No Saunders. Instead, we would have a memories section on H & V where we re-called Bryan Small our heroic captain who lead us to the Conference championship and back into the football league after we had worked our way back up the league pyramid.
Now that would have been an embarrasing. An embarrassing legacy to the name of William McGregor. A picture in a dusty corner of a supporters club house at the ground we lease at Alexander Stadium instead of a statue outside our Trinity Road stand.
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I'm not trying to erase him from history - if only that were possible, but this post RL revisionism of this cuddly benign ex-owner sticks in my throat somewhat. Its the same sort of guff you get from these people who look back on Thatchers time with fondness like its a an episode of Heartbeat. The best thing you can say about him is he sold the club to someone better - which is a pretty damming assessment really given the length of time he was in charge. Another season of him in charge and no money for players and we'd probably be well used to visiting Championship grounds by now.
Greg get over it, you don't like Doug and blame him for everything, we understand. You've got you point of view across, now give it a rest as you are a boring little p*%&k.
And if you abuse my Aunty Maggie again I am going to come round to your house with a pair of blunt wire cutters and cut your balls off (if you've got any), Smiley Face:) .
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I'll never forget the Coca Cola Cup Final 1994 - I was at Alton Towers with my kids and my Walkman !
Doug was being interviewed on Radio 5 before the game, very near the old Wembley.
There was a lot of background noise from Villa fans, singing etc.
Doug said ' anyway I'd better go, my fans are calling for me'.
Says it all for me !
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I'm not trying to erase him from history - if only that were possible, but this post RL revisionism of this cuddly benign ex-owner sticks in my throat somewhat. Its the same sort of guff you get from these people who look back on Thatchers time with fondness like its a an episode of Heartbeat. The best thing you can say about him is he sold the club to someone better - which is a pretty damming assessment really given the length of time he was in charge. Another season of him in charge and no money for players and we'd probably be well used to visiting Championship grounds by now.
Greg get over it, you don't like Doug and blame him for everything, we understand. You've got you point of view across, now give it a rest as you are a boring little p*%&k.
You're the one who needs to give it a rest. Less of that please.
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Anyway, talking of land sales, Lerner has done the same sort of thing to pay off the management charge to the parent company.
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Villa man/woman/child seen stumbling ?
Could be any one of us.
I wouldnt wish it on anyone.
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If we get relegated this season people may look back on the days of mid table mediocrity with great fondness. We could then rename the other 3 stands after Doug.
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Yet again greg disguises prejudiced opinion as fact. It's a fact that we sold a bit of land for a ridiculously large fee, the deal being announced well before anyone had even heard of Randy Lerner and while David O'Leary was still manager. It's a fact that directors have stated one of the main reasons why Randy bought us was the healthy state of the club's finances. It's my opinion that some people have an idea that our history is one of unbroken success without Doug and failure while he was in charge. Again, the facts are a bit different.
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Our finances might have been "healthy" compared to others in the Premier League, but I think that Greg has a point. Not having as a high a level of debt as others doesn't help when it comes to paying the day to day expenses of running a football club. We were overdrawn, had a large wages to turnover ration, and the squad desperately needed rebuilding. The amount of money Randy pumped in in the first year shows what was needed, and then even with Martin O'Neill we only finished 11th. I certainly think that if Ellis had stayed we'd have been in for a huge struggle, both financially and on the pitch.
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The way I see it is in an ideal world Doug would have not come back in 83. He deserves great credit for what he did first time round but held us back in his second term. I'd like to think somebody else could have come in and built on our European success but despite our position as Champions of Europe, nobody did and even if they had there was no guarantee they would have been any better, at least in the long term. Saying that, by the 90's it was obvious Doug was way past his sell by date and was holding us back. He needed us more than we needed him and it's no surprise he still goes to the games, he has no life outside Villa Park. He might have pocketed £30m from the sale but no idea how to spend it, other than buying petrol to watch the Villa. I almost feel sorry for him.
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I also find the fawning over him nauseating to be honest. Sure he's doing well at 87 to still be going but it's hardly a chore to be able to travel in luxury to sit in the best seats in the house, enjoy no doubt lavish hospitality and watch your favourite team play. I will remain ever cynical about the vain old goat's motivation and feel sure his continued attendance is as much about keeping himself in the public spotlight as any "dedication" to the club. I always thought self publicity was his prime motivation for getting involved and remaining involved with Villa and he's never given me any reason to change that view.
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he would deliberately chuck himself down the stairs just to get a bit of media attention...but you never know.
And before any bleeding hearts get their knickers in a twist, that last bit is very much tongue-in-cheek.
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he has no life outside Villa Park
Remind me where this fall took place?
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One thing I've never quite understood about a lot of football supporters is that they expect an owner of a club to fund the club from their own pockets, spend every waking hour running the club while not taking any kind of wage, and then sell it on in a healthy state without making any personal profit.
All this while forking out millions to purchase and pay young men who work a few hours a day, spend half their time injured, out the team or out of form - moan to the press when they're they're fined for turning up late or having to turn their phones off at work... and then move onto another employer when it suits them and receiving a nice payment when they do so.
And of course there's the money paid out to managers who receive big pay-offs for failing to do what they were employed to do.
In any walk of life the head of a business whose staff are becoming millionaires would do pretty well out of it themselves too.
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The way I see it is in an ideal world Doug would have not come back in 83. He deserves great credit for what he did first time round but held us back in his second term. I'd like to think somebody else could have come in and built on our European success but despite our position as Champions of Europe, nobody did and even if they had there was no guarantee they would have been any better, at least in the long term. Saying that, by the 90's it was obvious Doug was way past his sell by date and was holding us back. He needed us more than we needed him and it's no surprise he still goes to the games, he has no life outside Villa Park. He might have pocketed £30m from the sale but no idea how to spend it, other than buying petrol to watch the Villa. I almost feel sorry for him.
You're right Mark. Doug Ellis of Aston Villa is what he's clinging on to. Without the club and his association with it he's just Mr Ellis, elderly gentleman. He can carry on as long as he like as far as I'm concerned as he's harming nobody now. He even seems to be very popular with the young judging by the amount of times he had requests to have his picture taken with so many of them on his last Holte End visit.
I will say one thing, I can't think of a better way than spending your dotage years following the club up and down the country. I hope I'm fit and financially able to do the same when/if I reach 87.
Anyway, aside from all of this, one time bouncer Mazrim hasn't been on here for a week or two, are we sure Doug just 'fell' down some stairs
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Not too sure about the near hundred years of mediocrity. Taking 1900 as the end of our truly golden era, in the following 33 years/29 seasons we were only out of the top 6 on 9 occasions. We also bagged another chamionship, three FA cups and 6 second place finishes. This at a time when there were no European or League cups to fatten the trophy cabinet.
Villa's true age of mediocrity stated just before the second world war, 25 or 26 seasons pre-Ellis.
I'm not exactly sure what 'a good businessman' is, or what it qualifies you for. The guy that owns the local chip shop has a flash car and does very well for himself. I wouldn't put him in charge if ICI.
The Villa that Ellis took over in 68 probably suited his abilities down to the ground, small enough but still with a certain cachet. He did a very good job indeed, we should be grateful. The position we were in was every bit as bad as people here recall.
The club he returned to in 83 was probably too big for him, it soon downsized. Again, when the premier league really took off in every sense in the mid 90's the days of the limited success he was achieving were numbered. He really was out of his depth.
Gregnash isn't that far from the reality of the position we ended up in. We'd missed the boat, were in decline and the odds were that it would get a lot worse.
Say what you like about the old bugger, four years on and all he has to do is fall down the stairs and keyboards overheat in no time.
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I'm not exactly sure what 'a good businessman' is, or what it qualifies you for. The guy that owns the local chip shop has a flash car and does very well for himself. I wouldn't put him in charge if ICI.
You'd be right not to Steve, There's been no ICI since 2008.
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I'm not exactly sure what 'a good businessman' is, or what it qualifies you for. The guy that owns the local chip shop has a flash car and does very well for himself. I wouldn't put him in charge if ICI.
You'd be right not to Steve, There's been no ICI since 2008.
It's easier to type than AkzoNobel.
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he has no life outside Villa Park
Remind me where this fall took place?
You miss the point, Chris. Sure he was out at his place in Palma, probably due to his wife nagging him to go out there but he was still back for the Everton game. From what I've heard from a family member, he's Johnny No Mates, apart from a bit of salmon fishing, he has no life apart from the Villa, which explains why he was so reluctant for so many years to sell up, despite the wishes of his family.
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If we get relegated this season people may look back on the days of mid table mediocrity with great fondness. We could then rename the other 3 stands after Doug.
Sorry, I don't buy that. The big difference between now and then was that under Ellis there was no hope. We were stagnant. Even if we were to go down this season, I'd fancy us to bounce straight back up and come back stronger. Everything about the club now is right except the results, fix that and we'll be fine.
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If we get relegated this season people may look back on the days of mid table mediocrity with great fondness. We could then rename the other 3 stands after Doug.
Sorry, I don't buy that. The big difference between now and then was that under Ellis there was no hope. We were stagnant. Even if we were to go down this season, I'd fancy us to bounce straight back up and come back stronger. Everything about the club now is right except the results, fix that and we'll be fine.
I don't agree sorry Mark. I think relegation would cripple us personally. I certainly wouldn't count on Lerner to pick the right manager to get us straight back up.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
Do you mind? That Fear bloke is my spokesman thanks very much.
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If we get relegated this season people may look back on the days of mid table mediocrity with great fondness. We could then rename the other 3 stands after Doug.
Sorry, I don't buy that. The big difference between now and then was that under Ellis there was no hope. We were stagnant. Even if we were to go down this season, I'd fancy us to bounce straight back up and come back stronger. Everything about the club now is right except the results, fix that and we'll be fine.
I don't agree sorry Mark. I think relegation would cripple us personally. I certainly wouldn't count on Lerner to pick the right manager to get us straight back up.
I know what you mean but I have more faith in Randy than you obviously do. As I've mentioned several times on here, the appointment of Houllier should have included Patrice Berges. Together they're a great double act, alone they struggle. If Houllier is to stay on next season, I pray Berges joins us. I really think we'd see a huge, positive difference.
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he has no life outside Villa Park
Remind me where this fall took place?
You miss the point, Chris. Sure he was out at his place in Palma, probably due to his wife nagging him to go out there but he was still back for the Everton game. From what I've heard from a family member, he's Johnny No Mates, apart from a bit of salmon fishing, he has no life apart from the Villa, which explains why he was so reluctant for so many years to sell up, despite the wishes of his family.
If I get to 87 I wouldn't expect many mates, more the quiet life which what it seems, he is doing - fishing, sunny hoilidays and a nice comfy seat at the Villa.
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Not necessarily. You can increase your borrowings. I do struggle to recollect that Villa were on the verge of administration just before Randy took over.
Ellis did mention in the Evening Mail that the Petrov deal couldn't be completed as the club would face the prospect of going into administration. Seeing as he said money was available when MON took over, you'd have to wonder whether this was legit or just brinksmanship to get RL to cough up rather than himself.
In the end, RL did finance the deal even before the takeover was completed.
The £7(?) million that came from the sale of the Serpentine land came later into that season. As Greg and Risso have pointed out, if we were relying on that (and most likely selling Barry to Portsmouth) to fund a major rebuilding operation, we'd have faced the very real prospect of more struggle.
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Ellis did mention in the Evening Mail that the Petrov deal couldn't be completed as the club would face the prospect of going into administration.
Are you sure about that, Kev? The administration bit, I mean, rather than increasing our debt.
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Remember it clearly. Not sure if links still exist, but it sounded pretty stark at the time.
I'll have a search.
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Yet again greg disguises prejudiced opinion as fact. It's a fact that we sold a bit of land for a ridiculously large fee, the deal being announced well before anyone had even heard of Randy Lerner and while David O'Leary was still manager. It's a fact that directors have stated one of the main reasons why Randy bought us was the healthy state of the club's finances. It's my opinion that some people have an idea that our history is one of unbroken success without Doug and failure while he was in charge. Again, the facts are a bit different.
The finances may have been "healthy" in the sense that there was little or no debt, but let's not forget it came at a cost in that no debt meant under-investment, and that had led to increasing stagnation / mediocrity on the pitch. And since we were making losses it was only a question of time before the debt mounted up.
In answer to De Kuip, I'm not sure fans necessarily expect owners to put their own money in, it's more a case of not seeing why owners should get credit for having done so when they haven't.
Good post by Steve Rose.
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he has no life outside Villa Park
Remind me where this fall took place?
You miss the point, Chris. Sure he was out at his place in Palma, probably due to his wife nagging him to go out there but he was still back for the Everton game. From what I've heard from a family member, he's Johnny No Mates, apart from a bit of salmon fishing, he has no life apart from the Villa, which explains why he was so reluctant for so many years to sell up, despite the wishes of his family.
If I get to 87 I wouldn't expect many mates, more the quiet life which what it seems, he is doing - fishing, sunny hoilidays and a nice comfy seat at the Villa.
It's not just now, he's been Johnny No Mates for a long time despite his claims to know and be close friends with all world leaders, football legends, showbiz stars, etc. His life has always centred around Aston Villa and a few local charities. The fishing is two weeks a year, Palma probably the same. Obviously at 87 he's doing well just to get around and I reluctantly respect him for still going to games, home and away. I could think of far better things to do than sitting in freezing cold temperatures on a Monday night in Birmingham, never mind Sunderland or Liverpool but he obviously feels very much at home and still enjoys being involved, even in a reduced capacity.
The past is the past. Good luck to him.
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Ellis did mention in the Evening Mail that the Petrov deal couldn't be completed as the club would face the prospect of going into administration. Seeing as he said money was available when MON took over, you'd have to wonder whether this was legit or just brinksmanship to get RL to cough up rather than himself.
Not true. O'Neill had just been appointed and the takeover was in progress, but not completed. As Villa didn't have the cash to pay for Petrov, Ellis had no legal basis to pay for him as he wasn't allowed to borrow money or spend what wasn't there. Therefore Lerner agreed to the purchase secured on the Serpentine cash (which, if I remember rightly was due some time in November).
We were not on the brink of administration just, as Risso says, sliding inexorably into debt. Not in any great way that a loan couldn't have dealt with, but the prospects weren't great.
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Couldn't find the old Mail story but the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2344724/Lerner-takes-Villa-upmarket.html) also covered something similar:
Lerner takes Villa upmarket
By David Bond 12:01AM BST 01 Sep 2006
Martin O'Neill's £6.5 million swoop for Stilian Petrov went ahead despite a stand-off between Doug Ellis, the former chairman, and new American owner Randy Lerner over who should provide the money for the deals.
At the start of the week, with Lerner still short of the 75 per cent of the club's shares he needs to assume legal control of the business, Ellis was insisting there was not enough cash in the bank to finance the transfers.
With City regulator, the Takeover Panel, watching developments, Ellis argued that if Villa bought the players and Lerner pulled out, the club could be insolvent. Ellis suggested Lerner should put up his own money, but that was rejected by his advisers, who said he couldn't invest until he had obtained 75 per cent of the club's shares.
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he has no life outside Villa Park
Remind me where this fall took place?
You miss the point, Chris. Sure he was out at his place in Palma, probably due to his wife nagging him to go out there but he was still back for the Everton game. From what I've heard from a family member, he's Johnny No Mates, apart from a bit of salmon fishing, he has no life apart from the Villa, which explains why he was so reluctant for so many years to sell up, despite the wishes of his family.
If I get to 87 I wouldn't expect many mates, more the quiet life which what it seems, he is doing - fishing, sunny hoilidays and a nice comfy seat at the Villa.
It's not just now, he's been Johnny No Mates for a long time despite his claims to know and be close friends with all world leaders, football legends, showbiz stars, etc. His life has always centred around Aston Villa and a few local charities. The fishing is two weeks a year, Palma probably the same. Obviously at 87 he's doing well just to get around and I reluctantly respect him for still going to games, home and away. I could think of far better things to do than sitting in freezing cold temperatures on a Monday night in Birmingham, never mind Sunderland or Liverpool but he obviously feels very much at home and still enjoys being involved, even in a reduced capacity.
The past is the past. Good luck to him.
Yep, agreed.
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Which is pretty much what I was saying. Because of the stage the takeover was in, the club (Ellis) was in no position to borrow the money to pay for Petrov. In the end Lerner did fork out the money, secured on the Serpentine sale if things went paws up with the takeover. At no point was there any question of the club going into administration.
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Sorry, maybe it's my ignorance of takeover procedures and finance in general. But I'd tend to think that if Herbert had said there was money available (as he did on MON's arrival) but then claimed a mid-range transfer fee could potentially see the club insolvent, maybe we weren't in such rude financial health afterall.
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At that point, RAL had triggered a full offer to shareholders, but the deadline for taking up that offer hadn't arrived yet, so the existing owners were still in charge. However, you are not allowed to significantly alter the financial standing of the company at that point in a takeover and as the club didn't have the money for Petrov without borrowing it (which would have done something like doubled our debt, and so would have significantly altered the finances), Ellis was quite right.
You could argue that Ellis knew the Serpentine money was coming in eventually, but under the circumstances held out to the letter of the law (the Serpentine cash would have significantly reduced our then debt).
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I didn't sell my single share in Villa to Randy when I received the offer. I've still got it in a frame at home
Take that, Lerner
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I didn't sell my single share in Villa to Randy when I received the offer. I've still got it in a frame at home
Take that, Lerner
You have a piece of paper at home. The share is owned by Randy.
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I wouldn't dispute any of that.
But isn't it a pretty sad state of a affairs that we didn't even have a relatively modest amount like £6.5 million available without needing to resort to loans, veiled threats to the new owners and all the rest of it?
I don't want to go down this route too much as it was done to death at the time, but one of the supposed plus points of the Ellis years (particularly the last period from about 2000+) was that whilst other clubs might have been more ambitious and suffered peaks and troughs of fortune accordingly, we were on an even keel. Dull, but financially safe and sound. Yet we were well up on our overdraft facility at the time of his departure, had resorted to selling land to fund player purchases and were (in his words) one mid range transfer fee away from insolvency.
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As the person who started this thread just a little over 26 hours ago, when I noticed a story in the Sunday Mercury about an elderly gentleman falling down some steps.....its already had over 150 replies and reached page 11.
Well done Doug, you can still provoke as much debate simply slipping over as any player moving to Man City, a drunken brawl breaking out in a Leicestershire hotel, or some 1st year undergraduate law student drop out suing the club for unfair dismissal. Good for you !
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Oh for God's sake. I give up. We weren't insolvent or one Petrov away from insolvency. We were in debt, however. There's a big difference.
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The May 2006 accounts showed our current assets as £5m, and our current liabilities, including an overdraft of £12m, as £30m. That's an unhealthy position to be in, especially with falling turnover and rising costs.
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Oh for God's sake. I give up. We weren't insolvent or one Petrov away from insolvency. We were in debt, however. There's a big difference.
So when Herbert said he wouldn't complete the Petrov deal as -if the takeover fell through- we could be insolvent, he actually meant...?
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Petrov and the Serpentine sale were unrelated, We bought him in August and the car park deal was announced two months earlier.
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Yes the Serpentine deal was done months earlier, but the money from it wasn't due until the autumn. It was this guaranteed income that Ellis gave to Lerner as surety for doing the Petrov deal whilst under takeover rules.
Of course, I could just have imagined this and I'll wake up in the shower.
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I still have my bit of paper as well by the way
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Petrov and the Serpentine sale were unrelated, We bought him in August and the car park deal was announced two months earlier.
Well it kind of is related, in so far as we heard mention of the Serpetine land before we knew of the interest from RL, much less the appointment of MON.
At that stage, it genuinely looked like the projected £7 million from that deal, plus whatever we could cobble together by player sales, was the sum total of what we could hope for. In an effort to reshape a side that had narrowly avoided the drop. It's fair to say that optimism wasn't at an all time high around that period. Is it really so long ago that people forget?
Fast forward a few months and Herbert was promising his new manager money to spend. He was certain enough to say this, despite the takeover not actually being completed at that stage. This may or may not have been the Serpentine money (or a loan secured on the basis it was imminent). Regardless, when it came to the crunch, he was quite prepared to pull the plug on the Petrov deal, as whatever money he had set aside wasn't apparently enough to cover that. Begs the question how much he'd actually set aside for the new manager, or whether there was any money available in the first place.
Just to make it clear, I'm not suggesting we were on the brink of insolvency. That we were 'doing a Portsmouth' or similar, and were days away from going broke without RL's intervention. But Herbert saw fit to mention the 'I' word, whether that was genuine or just a negotiating tactic I honestly don't know. Personally I don't think either scenario gives him much credit. If we were genuinely so cash strapped that we didn't have a basic amount like that available that's not particularly healthy. If we did have it available, but he wanted the new owner to cough up -and was prepared to use scare tactics about the club going broke to achieve that aim- that paints him in a less than flattering light.
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I think that Doug's idea of insolvency and everyone else's idea are two different things. He was brought up as a child of the depression, and was absolutely paranoid about getting into debt. That was the underlying principle behind his every move, for good or ill.
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There's probably a degree of truth to that.
My final words on this, I wish him no ill will. He played a big part in our revival post 1968 (as did Pat Matthews and a few others). Yes we were still a huge club then, still the most successful (just about) side historically in England despite years of neglect.
But we were in a mess, had no divine right to return to the top, and we could quite easily have gone the way of Huddersfield or Wolves but for the work of Ellis and others.
He deserves his share of the credit for that turnaround, putting the foundations in place for the success of the early 80's and ensuring when he returned (despite relegation) that we maintained our status as one of the bigger clubs in the country. Even if we were never truly part of the elite again on his watch, and spurned numerous opportunities to become such.
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What Doug was or wasn't, is or isn't, I just can't see the point of any ill will towards an old man of 87. Villa fan or not.
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Do we know who bought the Serpentine ? One of the big retailers I'd imagine (via an agent)
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Do we know who bought the Serpentine ? One of the big retailers I'd imagine (via an agent)
It was some local government development agency who went out of business soon after.
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Is it back on the market then ? They paid top dollar for that site, will be worth a lot less now
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No idea who owns it now.
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Never a great Doug fan but wish him well ......
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I think that Doug's idea of insolvency and everyone else's idea are two different things. He was brought up as a child of the depression, and was absolutely paranoid about getting into debt. That was the underlying principle behind his every move, for good or ill.
Never a lender or a borrower be!
Time warp Doug - and a very unpleasant man to boot.
That's my final word on the subject .
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Ian Taylor goes to away games and he's called a legend. An 87 year old former chairman does the same and he gets abuse. It's a shame some people on here can't just let things go.
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Ian Taylor goes to away games and he's called a legend. An 87 year old former chairman year old does the same and he gets abuse. It's a shame some people on here can't just let things go.
Not the best analogy I've ever read !
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Ian Taylor goes to away games and he's called a legend. An 87 year old former chairman year old does the same and he gets abuse. It's a shame some people on here can't just let things go.
I think there are 87 year-old ex-SS guards that get less abuse.
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"I bear more grudges,
Than lonely high court judges"
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If you think we muddled along with mediocrity when Ellis was in charge you should have been around pre Ellis when the club was variously a Victorian relic and an absentee owners' plaything.
Like many on here I have met Ellis and found him on the whole likable and compared with other entrepreneurs of his generation - of whom I also met and knew a few, from Emile Savundra to Jim Slater to Freddie Laker to Joe Kagan - straight dealing. I found him a vain man but that is not uncommon with self made men who on the whole did more good for Villa than bad. That in the process he did well for himself goes with the principle that entrepreneurs make the world go round. I do not subscribe to that but it is so embedded in the system, like Graham Taylor said in his match summary on Radio 5 last Saturday about losing players on international duty it is a fact of life, so live with it.
Doug Ellis is Doug Ellis. He is part of Villa history. Live with it.
Suggesting that Doug was straight dealing compared to a fake doctor and insurance fraudster, an asset stripper who brought misery to thousands and a convicted thief and tax evader is faint praise indeed.
I agree that it's the way of the world, but as you suggest, you don't have to like it.
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A fall at his age can be very serious, it's often the beginning of the end for a lot of elderly people so it's fortunate for him that he's been given the all clear.
indeed it is Chris.
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What Doug was or wasn't, is or isn't, I just can't see the point of any ill will towards an old man of 87. Villa fan or not.
could not agree more. When in charge I was never impressed although he gave us some interesting times.
Now he's 87 and is doing a great impression as a fine ambassador for the club even if his brief interviews still seem as odd as ever, so why the need to bring up long past memories I know not.
Unlike many associated to Villa he always brings a smile to my face, long may he prosper.
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For the handshake with Abramovich alone, he should ascend some of the flak
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For the handshake with Abramovich alone, he should ascend some of the flak
One of the funniest moments in following Villa in recent years.
Look at that for a shit eating grin.
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I think that Doug's idea of insolvency and everyone else's idea are two different things. He was brought up as a child of the depression, and was absolutely paranoid about getting into debt. That was the underlying principle behind his every move, for good or ill.
The fact is that we had reached our agreed overdraft limit, our current liabilities outstripped our assets by a long way, and the only thing keeping us solvent was the value of land and player registrations. We had resorted to flogging off bits of land to raise cash. If Lerner hadn't arrived, it would have to have been player sales next.
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A fall at his age can be very serious, it's often the beginning of the end for a lot of elderly people so it's fortunate for him that he's been given the all clear.
indeed it is Chris.
Indeed. My nan was 93, had all her marbles and was generally in fine fettle. She fell over, broke her hip, and died as a result of the ensuing operation.
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If Lerner hadn't arrived, it would have to have been player sales next.
Not a lot has changed then, we'll be selling Young in the Summer, Milner and Barry previously.
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If Lerner hadn't arrived, it would have to have been player sales next.
Not a lot has changed then, we'll be selling Young in the Summer, Milner and Barry previously.
oh come on now. there's a big difference between selling players because they won't sign a new contract and selling because you can't pay the electric bill
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If Lerner hadn't arrived, it would have to have been player sales next.
Not a lot has changed then, we'll be selling Young in the Summer, Milner and Barry previously.
oh come on now. there's a big difference between selling players because they won't sign a new contract and selling because you can't pay the electric bill
I know it's not that bad, but our wages to turnover is at a critical level, just fucking off Beye and Warnock isn't enough, we're losing money hand over fist.
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yep. It will improve in the summer though when we get some of the wasters off the bill. Providing we don't go down that is.
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If Lerner hadn't arrived, it would have to have been player sales next.
Not a lot has changed then, we'll be selling Young in the Summer, Milner and Barry previously.
oh come on now. there's a big difference between selling players because they won't sign a new contract and selling because you can't pay the electric bill
I know it's not that bad, but our wages to turnover is at a critical level, just fucking off Beye and Warnock isn't enough, we're losing money hand over fist.
Don't think it's that extreme, to be honest.
Randy pumped money in and we've seen the turnover grow due to that, but not to the level he originally expected, IMO. So now we're trying to re-balance the books based on lower turnover and at the same trying a different approach on the pitch to try and again increase revenue. I think what we saw in January was not the action of a club with money worries.
We're just being prudent.
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yep. It will improve in the summer though when we get some of the wasters off the bill. Providing we don't go down that is.
Since last summer we've already lost Shorey, Sidwell and Harewood, plus Carew and possibly NRC off the books this summer. The job is largely done, even with the likes of Bent added back in, as the kids have filled the holes.
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
I would hardly say "Let's see you do it at 87" if he wasn't 87 would I? And if you're looking for attention, there are much better ways than your silly little second bit.
If it wasnt for Doug saving the club in the 60s and appointing the doc I probably wouldnt be supporting the club. Good luck Doug and yes he did sit in the holte end recently.
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The board always backed MON with the size of his squad. The problem they had was not the size but the fact half of them never played. They've had to add to the problem by letting GH buy some replacements. if 10 leave with 5 coming in then that will go a long way to bringing the wage bill down.
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Aren't we losing about £700k per week ?
Not sustainable
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Where did you get that figure from?
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Ballpark based on the latest set of accounts ie. £36m loss ??
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Ballpark based on the latest set of accounts ie. £36m loss ??
George,
How many times have I told you not to spend your time on these forums? We've got a country to run.
Yours Sincerely,
Dave
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Well if we can get the wage bill under control, consolidate our position in the PL, keep the youth stars coming through, we may be ahead of the pack in 3-4 years time and challenging at the right end again.
We just have to get through the pain now
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For the handshake with Abramovich alone, he should ascend some of the flak
One of the funniest moments in following Villa in recent years.
Look at that for a shit eating grin.
Nice one Doug
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
I would hardly say "Let's see you do it at 87" if he wasn't 87 would I? And if you're looking for attention, there are much better ways than your silly little second bit.
If it wasnt for Doug saving the club in the 60s and appointing the doc I probably wouldnt be supporting the club. Good luck Doug and yes he did sit in the holte end recently.
Thanks b 2 Fuc he was'nt around from 1980-1982.He did enough damage when he returned with a catalogue of crap managers.Correct me if i'm wrong but Graham Taylor did say the Club was in a mess in 1987,that's after 4 years of Deadly Doug being back in control.1st time round yes..2nd time round never.
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Yet he still appointed the likes of the aforementioned Taylor, BFR, Little and MON.
Some absolute howlers (Turner, McNeill, Venglos, O' Leary) but it's inaccurate to paint it as all bad.
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DOL got us to 6th didnt he ? So he matched MON in terms of achievement ?
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DOL got us to 6th didnt he ? So he matched MON in terms of achievement ?
Do you really believe that or have you been overdoing the sangria?
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DOL got us to 6th didnt he ? So he matched MON in terms of achievement ?
He did it once, but no way would he have done it 3 seasons on the bounce as O'Neill did.
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DOL got us to 6th didnt he ? So he matched MON in terms of achievement ?
He did it once, but no way would he have done it 3 seasons on the bounce as O'Neill did.
Of course he wouldn't but the cold hard facts of what their maximum achievement was in the PL is equal, isn't it?
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Yeah,i should imagine that being chauffuer driven to every game,never paying for a ticket,sitting in the best seats in the house every week,and knowing he's made a massive profit on his original investment must be hard on him
Fuck his commitment,i reckon my 300 mile round trip to a home game outdoes that old scroat
Let's see you do it when you're 87.
Ahhh bless you.
Is it because he's 87 or because your the self appointed "voice"of villa fans that makes you post that
I would hardly say "Let's see you do it at 87" if he wasn't 87 would I? And if you're looking for attention, there are much better ways than your silly little second bit.
If it wasnt for Doug saving the club in the 60s and appointing the doc I probably wouldnt be supporting the club. Good luck Doug and yes he did sit in the holte end recently.
Thanks b 2 Fuc he was'nt around from 1980-1982.He did enough damage when he returned with a catalogue of crap managers.Correct me if i'm wrong but Graham Taylor did say the Club was in a mess in 1987,that's after 4 years of Deadly Doug being back in control.1st time round yes..2nd time round never.
I think the word GT used was 'shambles'.
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For at least the last decade of his reign, I couldn't wait to see the back of him. But do you know what? I now sort of miss him being in charge. Its probably a nostalgic thing, but for all his faults, his toe-curling excursions into the media, his alleged parsimony, the Stand naming, etc, etc, etc, he was as much part of the Villa supporting experience as Andy Gray putting his head where others wouldn't put their feet or Paul McGrath flicking away a clearance with the outside of his foot.
Last season I was behind his Roller going to Wigan. He tried to turn right to get to the stadium and realised he was about to turn into a service bay for one of the stores on the retail park. The resulting manoeuvre could have been made by any octogenarian, on any supermarket car park in the land - albeit in a beige Rover 200, as oppose to AV1. Bless!
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DOL got us to 6th didnt he ? So he matched MON in terms of achievement ?
He did it once, but no way would he have done it 3 seasons on the bounce as O'Neill did.
Of course he wouldn't but the cold hard facts of what their maximum achievement was in the PL is equal, isn't it?
yep and without the benefit of the biggest spending spree by a Manager in Villa's history
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DOL got us to 6th didnt he ? So he matched MON in terms of achievement ?
He did it once, but no way would he have done it 3 seasons on the bounce as O'Neill did.
Of course he wouldn't but the cold hard facts of what their maximum achievement was in the PL is equal, isn't it?
yep and without the benefit of the biggest spending spree by a Manager in Villa's history
But
After having virtually no funds, at the start of season 3, O'Leary was given around £16m for signings, not brilliant, but good for us.
The end result was near relegation.
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still very very meagre pickings compared to MON and indeed GH. He spent that on a forward a while back
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Yet he still appointed the likes of the aforementioned Taylor, BFR, Little and MON.
Some absolute howlers (Turner, McNeill, Venglos, O' Leary) but it's inaccurate to paint it as all bad.
I'd say that for a ten year spell or so from the start of the Premier League, we probably had it about as good as it could have got. Runners up, two League Cups, a variety of top six finishes, and an FA Cup final. All that seems miles away now.
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Yet he still appointed the likes of the aforementioned Taylor, BFR, Little and MON.
Some absolute howlers (Turner, McNeill, Venglos, O' Leary) but it's inaccurate to paint it as all bad.
I'd say that for a ten year spell or so from the start of the Premier League, we probably had it about as good as it could have got. Runners up, two League Cups, a variety of top six finishes, and an FA Cup final.
And we were still moaning through most of it.
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Yet he still appointed the likes of the aforementioned Taylor, BFR, Little and MON.
Some absolute howlers (Turner, McNeill, Venglos, O' Leary) but it's inaccurate to paint it as all bad.
I'd say that for a ten year spell or so from the start of the Premier League, we probably had it about as good as it could hav
e got. Runners up, two League Cups, a variety of top six finishes, and an FA Cup final.
And we were still moaning through most of it.
Ain't that the truth. It's embarrassing to look back at the hysteria of that time considering where we were.
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Doesn't detract from the fact that the man is a nasty piece of work.
No-one has a god word to say of him.
He 'found' Villa when it was opportune, otherwise he would have been Chairman at Blues or Wolves.
Sorry, let bygones be bygones and all that, but the fact is that £llis held us back by being stubborn and antiquated.
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Doesn't detract from the fact that the man is a nasty piece of work.
No-one has a god word to say of him.
He 'found' Villa when it was opportune, otherwise he would have been Chairman at Blues or Wolves.
Sorry, let bygones be bygones and all that, but the fact is that £llis held us back by being stubborn and antiquated.
I thought we'd already had your final word on this subject ?
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Yet he still appointed the likes of the aforementioned Taylor, BFR, Little and MON.
Some absolute howlers (Turner, McNeill, Venglos, O' Leary) but it's inaccurate to paint it as all bad.
I'd say that for a ten year spell or so from the start of the Premier League, we probably had it about as good as it could hav
e got. Runners up, two League Cups, a variety of top six finishes, and an FA Cup final.
And we were still moaning through most of it.
Ain't that the truth. It's embarrassing to look back at the hysteria of that time considering where we were.
I don't recall a huge amount of negativity/ hysteria during the BFR era and a fair chunk of Brian Little's stint as manager was positive.
There was perhaps understandable concern that we were unwilling/ unable to go the extra mile- a scenario that played out with a fair degree of frequency in those ten years, and that the gap wouldn't be able to be closed. That's largely how it's played out too.
We missed the opportunity to get in at the ground floor in the early years of the Premiership boom -to truly maximize our status and the size of the club- when we had as good a chance as about 3/4 sides. And we've suffered the consequences since.
So, yes, praise for Herbert (and the managers of the time) for ensuring the conditions were right for us to at least look like challengers on occasion. Criticism/ disappointment/ hysteria call it what you will, for not actually delivering on that promise.
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Ah, hysteria. There will be plenty of that if we lose to the Geordies.....
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Doesn't detract from the fact that the man is a nasty piece of work.
No-one has a god word to say of him.
He 'found' Villa when it was opportune, otherwise he would have been Chairman at Blues or Wolves.
Sorry, let bygones be bygones and all that, but the fact is that £llis held us back by being stubborn and antiquated.
I thought we'd already had your final word on this subject ?
Almost ;-)
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A nasty piece of work? Have you met him?
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Doesn't detract from the fact that the man is a nasty piece of work.
What exactly has he done to be a "nasty piece of work"?
At the very worst he's not quite been a good enough chairman of a football club, is that a big enough crime for you to actually think of him alongside, I don't know, muggers, rapists, child molesters and Coldplay, you know, real "nasty pieces of work"?
Hyperbole. We're good at it on here sometimes.
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A nasty piece of work? Have you met him?
Only socially.
I know people who've dealt with him, all have the same opinion - all of them, to a man or woman.
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I've met him. I've spoken to him. I've dealt with him. I don't share that opinion.
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A nasty piece of work? Have you met him?
Only socially.
I know people who've dealt with him, all have the same opinion - all of them, to a man or woman.
Perhaps that says more about the people you know.
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There are a lot of things that I could say right now that I'm not going to say.
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There are a lot of things that I could say right now that I'm not going to say.
Aahhh go on, go on, go on, go on....
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There are a lot of things that I could say right now that I'm not going to say.
Aahhh go on, go on, go on, go on....
(http://www.bbcprograms.com/catalog/fatherted/images/0104fted.jpg)
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i'll tell you one thing about cuddly doug i've never been able to understand. Why was it when he made his name being very careful about money, the one time he went on a spending spree with a manager he didn't choose GT, BFR or someone with at least some record as a manager, but John Gregory?!
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i'll tell you one thing about cuddly doug i've never been able to understand. Why was it when he made his name being very careful about money, the one time he went on a spending spree with a manager he didn't choose GT, BFR or someone with at least some record as a manager, but John Gregory?!
That was the time we had plenty of it.
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nah, there was more to it than that. rumour was, that part of the reason Doug got rid of BFR was the wage bill and the older players he signed with no re-sale value but he seemed quite happy to do the same under gregory.
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nah, there was more to it than that. rumour was, that part of the reason Doug got rid of BFR was the wage bill and the older players he signed with no re-sale value but he seemed quite happy to do the same under gregory.
We had the flotation and the NTL money. It was there and the manager spent it.
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As DW points out, it was timing more than anything else. The flotation in 1997, the Yorke sale in 1998 and the NTL deal in 2000 swelled the coffers more than any other period.
It wasn't 'his' money, as he would often like to make out, but in fairness he did free it up.
The Bosman ruling and Leeds coming a cropper made him retreat to the bunker. He genuinely thought transfer fees would soon be done away with altogether -so there wasn't any point going overboard.
He also had this curious idea about clubs being self sustainable, that they shouldn't have so much of their income going straight out in wages again. Not an unreasonable view, but without consensus and without other owners and chairmen all abiding by the same rules it reduced our ability to be competitive. The kids from the youth team were going to save us, but the kids were never quite good enough.
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yeah i understand all that, but it was a one-off amounts, not sustainable. The players Gregory bought on the whole would need to be replaced after a few years with no re-sale value and yet he gave the go-ahead anyway knowing that we'd be broke with no money to buy replacements as both GT and DOL found to their cost. I just wonder how he took his eye off the ball so totally under Gregory given his reputation
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It's not true that Doug didn't spend - he just didn't spend what we didn't have, and the late nineties was the time when we had more than ever before so he spent more.
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I've met him. I've spoken to him. I've dealt with him. I don't share that opinion.
OK, but there is a bitter man out there who shares my view !
I have heard negative numerous things about the way he treated his son Peter too.
Time heals I guess.
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It's not true that Doug didn't spend - he just didn't spend what we didn't have
As opposed to the likes of Leeds and more recently Pompey who spent what they did'nt have and look where it got them. Yes, there might have been times during his reign when it felt like he was holding us back, but to say he did'nt spend is wrong.
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He had the annoying habit of looking down his nose at "the common man" but I wouldn't say he was a nasty pice of work. A little eccentric maybe
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yeah i understand all that, but it was a one-off amounts, not sustainable. The players Gregory bought on the whole would need to be replaced after a few years with no re-sale value and yet he gave the go-ahead anyway knowing that we'd be broke with no money to buy replacements as both GT and DOL found to their cost. I just wonder how he took his eye off the ball so totally under Gregory given his reputation
Isn't that an accusation you could also make at Randy, though?
Habib Beye? Emile Heskey? How much resale value there?
The irony is that football supporters clamour for money to be made available for the manager to spend, but when it gets spent badly, rather than point at the manager and say "your fault", they point at the chairman and say "your fault for giving him the money".
That's great with hindsight, but what would you have said if Doug hadn't given Gregory the money?
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He had the annoying habit of looking down his nose at "the common man" but I wouldn't say he was a nasty pice of work. A little eccentric maybe
Simply put - he treated people who worked FOR him like shit.
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It's not true that Doug didn't spend - he just didn't spend what we didn't have, and the late nineties was the time when we had more than ever before so he spent more.
The majority of that money was from the floatation of the club, plus the £12.6m we got for Yorke, as I recall. Where we went wrong was that Gregory spent it on players of a certain age that meant no re-sale value. Merson, Dublin, Steve Stone, etc. What that meant was the funds effectively died and couldn't be recycled through the club.
Where I think MON and Randy got it right is that their big spends were on younger players, such and Young, Downing and Milner. We've already seen the benefit of that with Milner and are about to with Ash. Did they actually spend more than £5m, which is a modest fee in today's market, on a player over 25?