Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: RickySlade on March 24, 2011, 08:18:44 PM

Title: Old big ed
Post by: RickySlade on March 24, 2011, 08:18:44 PM
Evening all,

I'm coming to the end of reading 'The Damned United', which has set me off scouring the net for old Cloughie interviews/documentaries, etc.  What a charismatic fella.  I only really remember his later years at Forest, which it is fair to say don't really do the man justice - the FA cup semi final against Spurs aside maybe!

Anyway, the reason for my post is that I am sure that somewhere along the line, I have read that back in his heyday, Brian Clough was very positive about the Villa?  Is this true?  I'm hoping there's someone out there that knows a bit more about any comments he made re the Villa.  At the time when Clough was at Derby and then Leeds briefly, I was under the impression Villa were languising in the second/third divisions?
Would we still have been on the mans radar?
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: nuninho on March 24, 2011, 08:19:49 PM
1982 European Cup Final - at the final whistle Clough - "We've done it"

Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: RickySlade on March 24, 2011, 08:24:05 PM
nuninho; I've never heard that before - that's an ace little snippet.  Was Cloughie on commentary at the time? 
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: nuninho on March 24, 2011, 08:26:22 PM
Yep.  Along with the great Brian Moore.  Worth a listen to if you can get hold of a copy of the game.  If I remember he was very complimentary on the night.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 24, 2011, 08:37:20 PM
1982 European Cup Final - at the final whistle Clough - "We've done it"



Wasn't it "We've done 'em"?
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 24, 2011, 08:38:58 PM
My first real awareness of Cloughie was bringing Derby to Villa Park towards the end of 68/69 for a 2nd division game. Derby were going for promotion and there were 49,000 there. Derby were on the up with Cloughie then and would eventually win division one. Meanwhile the Villa, while reorganised as a club, were having to rebuild and claw their way back from division 3.

Over the years Villa re-established themselves at the top table and you sometimes wondered if Cloughie might ever come to Villa. I think he had a healthy respect for Doug, in Cloughies terms that probably meant he could have put up being in the same room as him for 6 minutes instead of the 5 he would manage with most other football club directors.
Did Doug, or for that matter Bendall or Dugdale, ever consider tempting him to Villa Park ? I dont know.

I think he liked the Villa, after all most of his managerial career was spent in the Midlands. Fantastic man, fantastic manager, but I think if he had ever come to us and particularly with Doug there we may have finished up with a film based around us instead of Leeds. THE DAMNED VILLA.   
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: bertlambshank on March 24, 2011, 08:48:24 PM
Yep.  Along with the great Brian Moore.  Worth a listen to if you can get hold of a copy of the game.  If I remember he was very complimentary on the night.
The way he was giving Tony Barton advice before the game was fantastic.Tony was like a little kid.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Deano's Mullet on March 24, 2011, 08:53:14 PM
If you want a decent book about Clough try "Providing You Dont Kiss Me" which is the best non-Villa football book i've ever read.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: The Left Side on March 24, 2011, 08:56:52 PM
I don't know whether Clough would have put up with Ellis for too long, it would have been an almighty clash of ego's but life would have been interesting with them both around B6.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 24, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
1982 European Cup Final - at the final whistle Clough - "We've done it"



Wasn't it "We've done 'em"?

Yes. "We've done 'em, we've done 'em". It's at about 7 minutes 30 when the final whistle goes.

Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: adrenachrome on March 24, 2011, 09:16:02 PM
He often used to mention the amazing disciplinary record of our League Championship winning team of 80/81 when discussing how the game should be played.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: RickySlade on March 24, 2011, 09:48:16 PM
I get nervous watching those highlights and I know the bloody final score!  Awesome scenes of the Villa crowd at the full time whistle.  I had never realised previously Clough was on commentary for the final.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 24, 2011, 09:57:12 PM
I always got the impression that he held Aston Villa in high regard.

Whenever I watch the final I always have a chuckle about how we moan about the bias of commentators to the Mancs etc as Cloughie may as well have been sitting in a Villa shirt while he was commentating he wanted us to win so much.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Nastylee on March 24, 2011, 10:08:22 PM
Got to be on of the most one sided finals ever.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: KevinGage on March 24, 2011, 10:11:06 PM
Talk was whilst at Hartlepool before the Derby gig, he was offered the Villa job (or the directors were split on it, I forget which).

Cloughie being Cloughie he would have wanted total control though and perhaps a smaller club was easier to manipulate.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: KevinGage on March 24, 2011, 10:12:00 PM
I always got the impression that he held Aston Villa in high regard.

Whenever I watch the final I always have a chuckle about how we moan about the bias of commentators to the Mancs etc as Cloughie may as well have been sitting in a Villa shirt while he was commentating he wanted us to win so much.

Think it was more a case of really, really hating ze Germans.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: garyshawsknee on March 24, 2011, 10:18:57 PM
Watched a documentary about Cloughie a while back,and it showed an interview with him around the time he had been interviewed for the England job. He seemed confident that he got the job,the papers reported that he virtually got it.

 It makes you wonder how things could've been different if he had,and how some 30 odd years later,some things haven't changed within the corridors of power,and the people running the game,are still completely out of touch.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Colhint on March 24, 2011, 10:44:11 PM
As he rightly said "i might not be the best manager, but I'm in the top 1"
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 25, 2011, 06:51:07 AM
He liked Villa, but don't get carried away by rumours that he was coming to manage us, he frequently went to the Forest board for a better contract and used to publicly let everybody know that a club was interested in him to give himself leverage.

He successfully did it for the last time when Wales were after him, he pretended to the media that he was mad keen on it but he had no intention of taking the job and it got him a new improved contract at Forest.

He had free rein at Forest and he knew fine well that he wouldn't get that at Villa or most other clubs.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Legion on March 25, 2011, 07:32:40 AM
Yep.  Along with the great Brian Moore.  Worth a listen to if you can get hold of a copy of the game.  If I remember he was very complimentary on the night.
The way he was giving Tony Barton advice before the game was fantastic.Tony was like a little kid.

But he didn't really give him advice though, did he? Didn't he just say something along the lines of 'He already knows what he's doing'? Which made Tony Barton glow with pride? Time to dig out my DVD when I get back from work.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Fuse on March 25, 2011, 09:58:15 AM
In Doug's book he claims that Clough and Peter Taylor wanted to manage Villa not long before Ron Saunders came but that he declined as he didn't feel it was fair to Vic Crowe who was manager at the time.

Thank god eh.
 
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: peter w on March 25, 2011, 10:01:23 AM
Got to be on of the most one sided finals ever.

I never really got nervous -well i was nervous throughout, but you know, shitting dog shakingly nervous - until the 2nd half when the were properly battering us. I still don't know how Spink saved that one shot that looked like it had gone past him when he was at full strength.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: ktvillan on March 25, 2011, 10:19:45 AM
I seem to recall there was some speculation that Clough might be in the frame for the Villa job around the time Crowe was sacked and Saunders came in.  There was also speculation that Ellis vetoed the possibility as he didn't fancy having someone around with an ego bigger than his, and who would steal some of his limelight.  As for not beingg fair on Crowe, well Ellis sacked him so I doubt he was that concerned about him.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 25, 2011, 10:21:29 AM
Clough would never have come to Villa in a million years.

He had an O'Neill-esque control over Forest and he wouldn't give that up.
He was on big, big money there as well.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: UsualSuspect on March 25, 2011, 10:28:43 AM
1982 European Cup Final - at the final whistle Clough - "We've done it"



I remember taping a programme of central about 1987about the Villa, it was the 3-3 draw with ManUre when we won the title and then that night in Rotterdam.

Clough was the "expert" on the show and he was very complimentary about the Villa and said how said it was we had been relegated.

he also added that his dad had always told him:

"if you are going to beat anybody beat the Germans"
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: ktvillan on March 25, 2011, 11:20:14 AM
Clough would never have come to Villa in a million years.

He had an O'Neill-esque control over Forest and he wouldn't give that up.
He was on big, big money there as well.

The speculation about him was pre-Forest, around the time he was either near the end of his time at Derby or had left them.  I think he may have come then if offered it but doubht he would have lasted long with Ellis.   
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: darren woolley on March 25, 2011, 11:29:07 AM
I wish he would have come to Villa just imagine Villa being led by Brian Clough.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Mister E on March 26, 2011, 03:30:55 PM
Clough would never have come to Villa in a million years.

He had an O'Neill-esque control over Forest and he wouldn't give that up.
He was on big, big money there as well.

The speculation about him was pre-Forest, around the time he was either near the end of his time at Derby or had left them.  I think he may have come then if offered it but doubht he would have lasted long with Ellis.   
I think you're right here KT.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: asgpaul on March 26, 2011, 05:55:48 PM
Legend, a character the like off I doubt we'll ever see again in the so called 'modern' game.

He never held the two Ron's in high regard I seem to recall, Saunders whilst with us and Atkinson whilst at the Baggies, tho' a long time ago and I'm using my own recall so don't quote me on that!!

I also recall reading that he made a play for the Villa job with Elles whilst Crowe was in charge, but think that came from something I read from Elles, so.....!!
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: The Man With A Stick on March 26, 2011, 07:51:15 PM
Think it was more a case of really, really hating ze Germans.

I'm sure that's the case.  He'd probably have said the same thing had it been any other British team.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 27, 2011, 05:07:06 PM
Clough would never have come to Villa in a million years.

He had an O'Neill-esque control over Forest and he wouldn't give that up.
He was on big, big money there as well.

He wasn't at Forest at the time of the big speculation. 
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 27, 2011, 05:40:24 PM
Clough would never have come to Villa in a million years.

He had an O'Neill-esque control over Forest and he wouldn't give that up.
He was on big, big money there as well.

He wasn't at Forest at the time of the big speculation. 
He was connected with us on more than one occasion when he was at Forest Dave, as well as the post Derby situation.
The rumours of him coming to us whilst at Forest were put out by him to secure a new lucrative contract.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 27, 2011, 05:47:22 PM
Legend, a character the like off I doubt we'll ever see again in the so called 'modern' game.
O'Neill fancied himself as a Clough, but he had neither the charisma or the talent.
He wasn't fit to lick dog shit off Clough's shoes.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: KevinGage on March 27, 2011, 05:55:18 PM
Always struck me as odd that someone who modelled himself of Clough (or was at least heavily influenced by him) missed the part about good football.

Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 27, 2011, 06:26:18 PM
Clough would never have come to Villa in a million years.

He had an O'Neill-esque control over Forest and he wouldn't give that up.
He was on big, big money there as well.

He wasn't at Forest at the time of the big speculation. 
He was connected with us on more than one occasion when he was at Forest Dave, as well as the post Derby situation.
The rumours of him coming to us whilst at Forest were put out by him to secure a new lucrative contract.

It was never really serious, though. The only time he was linked properly with us was 1974, when he was at Brighton. 
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on March 27, 2011, 06:31:34 PM
I wonder what would a modern Brian Clough do to Aston Villa after taking over the Clough Wanabee after 5 days.

He is a wonderful guy. He play catch with me at Villa Park with a tennis ball about 20 years ago.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: london lion on March 27, 2011, 08:47:12 PM
I think the only derogatory thing Clough ever said about villa was that Graham Taylor would bore a glass eye to sleep

He wasnt wrong was he ?
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Legion on March 27, 2011, 08:49:15 PM
In this case, yes.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Pat McMahon on March 28, 2011, 12:55:49 PM
Yep.  Along with the great Brian Moore.  Worth a listen to if you can get hold of a copy of the game.  If I remember he was very complimentary on the night.
The way he was giving Tony Barton advice before the game was fantastic.Tony was like a little kid.

BigAd, is that on the video? Never heard of or seen that scene before. You Tube is banned here in China so I can't watch it but I do remember seeing Cloughie on TV in an ITV series about the golden years of Midlands footie, and he came across as very jingoistic in the context of that final - "I don't like Germans, never have done" type of way.

An unbelievable manager who achieved great success without managing big clubs but who was also a flawed character in many ways. I can only wonder what Leeds fans must think of what they missed out on.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: Small Rodent on March 28, 2011, 02:06:47 PM
I seem to recall a copy I watched in which Clough said Villa had a good chance because they played the European way. He also said something about the players being relaxed and Tony Barton being the most relaxed man in the ground.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: lordmcgrath5 on March 29, 2011, 03:43:00 PM
If you want a decent book about Clough try "Providing You Dont Kiss Me"

I'll second that. A truly fantastic book by a sympathetic journalist who knew him very well indeed. In fact, I must read it again soon.
Title: Re: Old big ed
Post by: john e on March 29, 2011, 07:29:30 PM
If you want a decent book about Clough try "Providing You Dont Kiss Me"

I'll second that. A truly fantastic book by a sympathetic journalist who knew him very well indeed. In fact, I must read it again soon.


i read that book to, it is pretty good, and doesnt paint Cloughie in a good light all the time, just tells it the way the man saw it, worts and all

i saw Brian Clough once, we played Notts County away, i think it was in the FA cup but it was many many years ago, he was standing outside Meadow lane selling a pile of tickets to fans,
 dont know where he got them or how many he had, but thats what he was doing, maybe he had a few spare i dont know,
no one was bothered, people just kept shaking his hand and all that,
can you imagine that happening today ?
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