Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 05:39:14 PM

Title: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 05:39:14 PM
Not that this is any attempt to temper the mood on here tonight, but given today's disaster, I thought it might draw some perspective looking at everyone elses run in. Just as we are in the dumps right now, it isn't going to be easy for the others between now and the end. All of us have very tricky games to negotiate and I doubt the spirits at those clubs are any better than ours. Today was bad, and not for a minute am I trying to deflect anything. But our run in isn't any more daunting than these other teams:

The Table:

 
Barclays Premier League table
Team                         P GD PTS
 
13 Blackburn             30 -12 33
14 Aston Villa            30 -14 33
15 Blackpool              30 -15 33
16 West Brom           30 -15 33
17 West Ham            30 -13 32
18 Wolves                 30 -14 32
19 Birmingham          29 -13 31
20 Wigan                  30 -22 30

Blackburn:            Villa:                      Blackpool:           West Brom:              West Ham:            Wolves:              Birmingham:      Wigan:

Arsenal (a)           Everton (a)            Fulham (a)          Liverpool (h)            Man U (h)              Newcastle (a)      Bolton (h)           Spurs (h)
Birmingham (h)    Newcastle (h)         Arsenal (h)         Sunderland (a)         Bolton (a)              Everton (h)          Blackburn (a)     Chelsea (a)
Everton (h)          West Ham (a)        Wigan (h)             Chelsea (h)             VILLA (h)               Stoke (a)          Sunderland (h)   Blackpool (a)
Man City (a)         Stoke (h)               Newcastle (h)      Spurs (a)                Chelsea (a)           Fulham (h)            Chelsea (a)         Sunderland  (a)
                                                                                                                                                                   Liverpool (a)
Bolton (h)             West Brom (a)        Stoke (h)            VILLA (h)                 Man City (a)         Birmingham (h)     Wolves (h)         Everton (h)     
West Ham (a)       Wigan (h)               Spurs (a)            Wolves (a)              Blackburn (h)         West Brom (h)     Newcastle (a)     VILLA (a)
Man U (h)              Arsenal (a)             Bolton (h)           Everton (h)              Wigan (a)             Sunderland (a)      Fulham (h)        West Ham (h)
Wolves (a)           Liverpool (h)           Man U (a)            Newcastle (a)          Sunderland (h)     Blackburn (h)        Spurs (a)           Stoke (a)
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Man With A Stick on March 19, 2011, 05:45:09 PM
But some of the others (Wolves, Albion and Blackpool specifically) seem to be able to pick up shock results, whereas we don't.  We simply have to beat Wigan, Albion and West Ham, otherwise we're dead.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: avfcpg on March 19, 2011, 05:47:38 PM
It's going to be a right old scrap now. I can see this going to the wire...not finishing Bolton off t'other week followed by that today has left us well and truly in it...confidence looks absolutely shot to pieces..
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 05:48:16 PM
But some of the others (Wolves, Albion and Blackpool specifically) seem to be able to pick up shock results, whereas we don't.  We simply have to beat Wigan, Albion and West Ham, otherwise we're dead.

true, but they also lose games they have a chance of winning. Which is why they are down there with us. Blackburn got battered by us, should have lost today and came back for a point. I can't predict what any of those teams will do from one game to next, and that very much includes us. If any of those teams puts together any semblence of a positive run, they'll get out. We have to be that team.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: ozzjim on March 19, 2011, 05:57:05 PM
I posted from the ground at half time, we just look like a team beaten at the moment, and from our fixtures I don't glean much confidence. We need to get back to basics, possibly even going to a traditional 4-4-2, get Heskey up with Bent and Ash out wide. Reo Coker and Makoun in the centre of midfield, get the big men back at the back with Collins, Clark and Cuellar alongside Walker. Then go to war. There is enough quality to finish top8, but they have to start doing it.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 19, 2011, 05:57:50 PM
I understand why you'd look at those fixtures with some hope, but it wasn't that long ago that we were looking at the start of our "easy" run in and thnking we'd be ok.

Fulham
Blackpool
Blackburn
Bolton
Wolves.

5 points from 15 there. Not nearly enough

Our problem is one which will affect us regardless of who we play - Man United or Wigan - we have zero spirit. None at all.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 19, 2011, 05:59:20 PM
- we have zero spirit. None at all.
Spot on.
I'd say we are by far the most gutless of all the bottom 8.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Billy Walker on March 19, 2011, 06:01:30 PM
We can either throw in the towel or get the fight and spirit going again.  We've got to get the positive vibes flowing and get behind the club and the players.  The fans can play a big part in getting us firing again, of that I am sure.  Eight games to go - we are far from doomed.  We need to make Villa Park an absolute fortress for those remaining four home matches and LIFT the lads. 

(Does Mazrim still have that orange dot?  We need to dust it down and get the positive vibes buzzing again.)
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: TheSandman on March 19, 2011, 06:01:55 PM
Wolves are a limited side and a team we simply had to beat. If we cannot beat them then we will struggle to beat anyone. I can see some of the other teams picking up points but I struggle to see where ours are going to come from. I'm hopeless at predicting anything so I'm not even going to try to look at the fixtures and see what is going to happen.

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on March 19, 2011, 06:06:10 PM
I posted from the ground at half time, we just look like a team beaten at the moment, and from our fixtures I don't glean much confidence. We need to get back to basics, possibly even going to a traditional 4-4-2, get Heskey up with Bent and Ash out wide. Reo Coker and Makoun in the centre of midfield, get the big men back at the back with Collins, Clark and Cuellar alongside Walker. Then go to war. There is enough quality to finish top8, but they have to start doing it.

And give the captaincy to NRC. He thrives on it. Tell Ashley to concentrate on what he does best, out wide, cutting in. We need warriors not wimps.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 06:08:55 PM
- we have zero spirit. None at all.
Spot on.
I'd say we are by far the most gutless of all the bottom 8.

thing is we looked gutless today. Let's dismiss the Man City game for all the obvious reasons, but playing against Bolton and Blackburn we didn't look gutless for long spells, and should have won easily against a good Bolton side. We lacked belief today, and I just wonder how much this weeks events actually affected the club. I think the club tried to put as positive a spin on it as possible, but there's some deep rooted stuff there that they clearly cannot shake.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: ozzjim on March 19, 2011, 06:09:27 PM
Agreed Mark. Taking NRC off today was a bigger sin than Albirghton for me who apart from a run early, had done nothing second half. Ashley is petulant, and annoying. Reo Coker is a fighter, and possibly our only one really.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: richard moore on March 19, 2011, 06:09:35 PM
Waste of time, this sort of thread. The other teams at the bottom are showing they can get results against the top sides

We are showing we can't beat any of the lower sides
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 06:12:16 PM
Waste of time, this sort of thread. The other teams at the bottom are showing they can get results against the top sides

We are showing we can't beat any of the lower sides

how is this a waste Richard? How are the other sides around showing any more form than us? Wigan and Wolves won today. But they've been bollocks all season which is why they are where they are. How are any of the sides around us getting results against the top sides? Come on, I know things are bleak but that's just nonsense.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Situation on March 19, 2011, 06:20:04 PM
I look at it how many points it'll take to be relegated and many points we' re realistically going to get. I hope we can have atleast 42 points by the final 2 games because that's when it starts to get worrying.

Look at it as pessimistic as you can. Even a draw today would mean 1 point closer to staying up.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: richard moore on March 19, 2011, 06:20:51 PM
Waste of time, this sort of thread. The other teams at the bottom are showing they can get results against the top sides

We are showing we can't beat any of the lower sides

how is this a waste Richard? How are the other sides around showing any more form than us? Wigan and Wolves won today. But they've been bollocks all season which is why they are where they are. How are any of the sides around us getting results against the top sides? Come on, I know things are bleak but that's just nonsense.

Threads like this trying to predict who will do what are always nonsense TV, not having a go at you personally

As for teams getting results against the top sides, look at West Ham and West Brom today

They may not have won but both were games that this sort of thread would have expected them both to lose....
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: levico on March 19, 2011, 06:22:50 PM
I'm sorry but anyone who by analysis is trying to show that we have the slightest chance of staying up is deluded. It is that type of attitude that us got us where we are now. We're the Villa we're too big to go down' - our players are just too good.

Boll*x to all you happy clappers look at the damage you have caused!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 06:32:05 PM
Waste of time, this sort of thread. The other teams at the bottom are showing they can get results against the top sides

We are showing we can't beat any of the lower sides

how is this a waste Richard? How are the other sides around showing any more form than us? Wigan and Wolves won today. But they've been bollocks all season which is why they are where they are. How are any of the sides around us getting results against the top sides? Come on, I know things are bleak but that's just nonsense.

Threads like this trying to predict who will do what are always nonsense TV, not having a go at you personally

As for teams getting results against the top sides, look at West Ham and West Brom today

They may not have won but both were games that this sort of thread would have expected them both to lose....


Richard, I didn't post this as a prediction thread because I don't find those any use either. I posted it as a matter of fact. Just showing what everyone had left and that it wasn't going to easy for any of the teams. As for your other point, getting only 1 point versus Arsenal when you should have got all 3 will be crushing to West Brom. As much as for us losing when we should have won today.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 06:32:47 PM
I'm sorry but anyone who by analysis is trying to show that we have the slightest chance of staying up is deluded. It is that type of attitude that us got us where we are now. We're the Villa we're too big to go down' - our players are just too good.

Boll*x to all you happy clappers look at the damage you have caused!!!!!!!

what the fuck are you on about?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: joe_c on March 19, 2011, 06:34:38 PM
Waste of time, this sort of thread. The other teams at the bottom are showing they can get results against the top sides

We are showing we can't beat any of the lower sides

how is this a waste Richard? How are the other sides around showing any more form than us? Wigan and Wolves won today. But they've been bollocks all season which is why they are where they are. How are any of the sides around us getting results against the top sides? Come on, I know things are bleak but that's just nonsense.

Threads like this trying to predict who will do what are always nonsense TV, not having a go at you personally

As for teams getting results against the top sides, look at West Ham and West Brom today

They may not have won but both were games that this sort of thread would have expected them both to lose....


Richard, I didn't post this as a prediction thread because I don't find those any use either. I posted it as a matter of fact. Just showing what everyone had left and that it wasn't going to easy for any of the teams. As for your other point, getting only 1 point versus Arsenal when you should have got all 3 will be crushing to West Brom. As much as for us losing when we should have won today.

Why should we have won today? We were diabolical.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 06:36:38 PM
Waste of time, this sort of thread. The other teams at the bottom are showing they can get results against the top sides

We are showing we can't beat any of the lower sides

how is this a waste Richard? How are the other sides around showing any more form than us? Wigan and Wolves won today. But they've been bollocks all season which is why they are where they are. How are any of the sides around us getting results against the top sides? Come on, I know things are bleak but that's just nonsense.

Threads like this trying to predict who will do what are always nonsense TV, not having a go at you personally

As for teams getting results against the top sides, look at West Ham and West Brom today

They may not have won but both were games that this sort of thread would have expected them both to lose....


Richard, I didn't post this as a prediction thread because I don't find those any use either. I posted it as a matter of fact. Just showing what everyone had left and that it wasn't going to easy for any of the teams. As for your other point, getting only 1 point versus Arsenal when you should have got all 3 will be crushing to West Brom. As much as for us losing when we should have won today.

Why should we have won today? We were diabolical.

Joe, we should have beaten Wolves today. Unfortunately we were shit, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a game we should have won.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: myf on March 19, 2011, 06:47:37 PM
I'm looking at 7 points max from the remainder which doubt will be enough
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Moose on March 19, 2011, 06:49:28 PM
TV, did you see the game today? I'm not having a go at you, but there was no way we should have won, not a chance. Not bad refereeing decisions, not unlucky, just absolutely bloody awful, without a tactic or clue how to beat a team who, by common consent, are going down. God help us, then.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 06:55:45 PM
TV, did you see the game today? I'm not having a go at you, but there was no way we should have won, not a chance. Not bad refereeing decisions, not unlucky, just absolutely bloody awful, without a tactic or clue how to beat a team who, by common consent, are going down. God help us, then.

I'm saying that at 3pm, every one of us would have thought this is a game we should win. We played like shit which is why we didn't. I'm not saying we should have based on how the game went. Yes, I did watch it and I'll never get those 90 minutes back.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Blackcountry Villa on March 19, 2011, 07:01:51 PM
I said around October time we'll struggle this season.
I said around Christmas we'll be in a relegation battle come january.
And now i'm saying we're going down. The other teams down there have fight and spirit, we haven't got those things. As for our squad being too good, do me a favour, we rely on Ashley Young to do everything and take everything and he's shit. As for our run in, if we aren't safe before our last two games we're gone.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: madirishvillain on March 19, 2011, 07:02:28 PM
the only straw we have left to clutch is Randy sacking Houllier

hand on heart cant see where we are getting a point from never mind a win
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PaulTheVillan on March 19, 2011, 07:08:05 PM
Do you really think Lerner would sack him now?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: madirishvillain on March 19, 2011, 07:10:09 PM
Do you really think Lerner would sack him now?

i do Paul

he HAS to do something
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: TonyD on March 19, 2011, 07:10:58 PM
Do you really think Lerner would sack him now?
He should.   Yes you should RL - are you reading this forum?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Chipsticks on March 19, 2011, 07:25:10 PM
I don't think my heart could handle a 'Survival Sunday' against Liverpool.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: olaftab on March 19, 2011, 07:26:01 PM
Before today I thought we will be safe. Today watching the the  in the second half it dawned on me something that most of you have been saying for a while now. We are a very very ineffective team. It was not the defence that lost this game but tactics and rubbish play all around. Crosses that land straight in GK's hand, Shots that go no where. Corners that fly over everyone. Players  that stand still instead for attacking the ball. The free kicks that are as innate as fluffy clouds. The subs  that make no difference.

We are .... difficult to say the words
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Cuz on March 19, 2011, 07:26:22 PM
Yes he has too
Do you really think Lerner would sack him now?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Legion on March 19, 2011, 07:33:23 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Oscar Arce on March 19, 2011, 07:38:26 PM
What sort of signal does it send out having ashley Young as captain ? He is no leader and he'll be down the road as soon as this season's over. I can't see us winning another game unless we get some proper 'leaders'; on that pitch.
We have a few on the books, being paid to sit on their arses and do nothing because of our great manager's attitude.
Reo-Coker, Warnock, Cuellar, Collins, Petrov are leaders, he should find a place for them in the team, consistently, before it is too late.
Looking at the fixtures, Liverpool at home last game of the season and Houlliers interview:
"I don't like being relegated to the Championship, but if anyone was to relegate me, it should be Liverpool".
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: madirishvillain on March 19, 2011, 07:41:10 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?

anybody to be honest - for 8 games - imagine the lift in mood and confidence around villa park, we might even see players that actually give a fuck

So Legion would you stick with Houllier ?

and why?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 19, 2011, 07:42:46 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?

I was asking people that yesterday, Leeg.

Unfortunately, after the shiteness of today - which I doubt many of us thought would be quite so terrible - it is starting to look like removing Houllier is of more importance than who replaces him. The club is in an absolute mess.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Oscar Arce on March 19, 2011, 07:45:21 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?

Allardyce is available, don't get me wrong I think he is the devil incarnate but for eight games i think he would organise the team, particularly the defence, so we could eek out the points required to hopefully stay in the Premiership.
Yes, thanks Houllier, it will have come to that, i hate the style of Allardyce, but perhaps a short term appointment would save us ?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ian. on March 19, 2011, 07:46:55 PM
I have been behind GH all season, as frustrating as it is has been, but bugger after all the shit from the last week with the team bonding situation I wish we could have gone out today with some fight and shown some guts and dug in for the cause and shown the supporters that there is nothing wrong behind the scenes.
I have not seen anything of todays match so I can't comment on it. My brother (a Wolves fan) said there was one big difference today and that was the Wolves players wanted to play for their manager and ours didn't. He might be going on the general outlook from what the press have said over the last few months, I don't know.

It's so confusing this season to what the hell is going on. Fuck knows, fucking fuck knows.

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: ez on March 19, 2011, 07:47:18 PM
Will the ticket prices come down if we go down?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: WikiVilla on March 19, 2011, 07:47:55 PM
Jol ?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: tremzvillain on March 19, 2011, 07:49:14 PM
Jol ?

I'd go with that.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Moose on March 19, 2011, 07:52:32 PM
Jol? Is that like lol without the laugh?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Risso on March 19, 2011, 07:52:58 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?

I was asking people that yesterday, Leeg.

Unfortunately, after the shiteness of today - which I doubt many of us thought would be quite so terrible - it is starting to look like removing Houllier is of more importance than who replaces him. The club is in an absolute mess.

I honestly think we'd be better off with almost any other football manager you could mention.  Houllier is a poison in the club at the moment, a disturbing influence the likes of which we haven't seen in many a long year.  It's clear that the majority of the players don't want to play for him, and not just the "troublemakers" either, and the fans just haven't taken to him.  He was trotting out garbage like "I think the fans will surprised at the unity in the team" before today, and I certainly was, just not in the way he meant.  He's the equivalent of a nervous supply teacher at a rough comp, totally out of his depth and unable to control those he's in charge of.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 19, 2011, 07:53:16 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?

Allardyce is available, don't get me wrong I think he is the devil incarnate but for eight games i think he would organise the team, particularly the defence, so we could eek out the points required to hopefully stay in the Premiership.
Yes, thanks Houllier, it will have come to that, i hate the style of Allardyce, but perhaps a short term appointment would save us ?


Relegation is a dreadful prospect, but Sam Allardyce managing Villa is even worse. In fact, he's the only obvious candidate I can think of who I'd say no to and keep Gerard at the moment.

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: ez on March 19, 2011, 07:56:03 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: garyshawsknee on March 19, 2011, 07:56:21 PM
Looking at the fixtures, Liverpool at home last game of the season and Houlliers interview:
"I don't like being relegated to the Championship, but if anyone was to relegate me, it should be Liverpool".

Reading that has given me a bit of a cold sweat,as i can imagine him saying that,with a gormless smirk on his face.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: garyshawsknee on March 19, 2011, 08:00:21 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?

Allardyce is available, don't get me wrong I think he is the devil incarnate but for eight games i think he would organise the team, particularly the defence, so we could eek out the points required to hopefully stay in the Premiership.
Yes, thanks Houllier, it will have come to that, i hate the style of Allardyce, but perhaps a short term appointment would save us ?


Relegation is a dreadful prospect, but Sam Allardyce managing Villa is even worse. In fact, he's the only obvious candidate I can think of who I'd say no to and keep Gerard at the moment.



 I agree,most of us had grown tired of the football under MON,so Allardyce would only be worse. I know debating a new man gives us something more pleasent to think about than whats going on on the pitch,it just aint gonna happen. He will either take us down,or we will stay up by the skin of our teeth,either way it obvioulsy isnt working and he needs to go in the summer.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: TheSandman on March 19, 2011, 08:01:06 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?

Allardyce is available, don't get me wrong I think he is the devil incarnate but for eight games i think he would organise the team, particularly the defence, so we could eek out the points required to hopefully stay in the Premiership.
Yes, thanks Houllier, it will have come to that, i hate the style of Allardyce, but perhaps a short term appointment would save us ?


Relegation is a dreadful prospect, but Sam Allardyce managing Villa is even worse. In fact, he's the only obvious candidate I can think of who I'd say no to and keep Gerard at the moment.

If the FA cup game against City showed us anything then it was the attitude is survival at all costs. I don't think we will survive with Houllier but I think we might with Big Sam as he will get a few results prefereably on a short term contract. Personally I found the Villa team fielded against Man City far more distasteful than the prospect of Big Sam managing the club (and I'm no big Sam fan).

As an aside it might be that that team is one of the causes of the current situation. Progression and confidence was up, most players want to play as often as they can and would want to get as far as possible in the FA cup and so that might have contributed to this perceived losing of the dressing room.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Moose on March 19, 2011, 08:04:24 PM
Well, if he's lost the dressing room - it's down the corridor, out the door, across the car park, onto Aston Lane and just keep on walking until you are at least 2,000 miles away from our club.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: CJ on March 19, 2011, 08:05:13 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.
Sid in the short term? Dullins and chair leg aside  - someone who bleeds claret and blue for the club. Then a more considered long term replacement in the summer
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Risso on March 19, 2011, 08:05:52 PM
I can't remember many games that I saw Bolton play under Allardyce that were as bad as that piss poor effort we served up today.  Never mind Allardyce, I'd have Barry Fry or Trevor Francis ahead of Houllier.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ian. on March 19, 2011, 08:09:48 PM
This time last year I would never have thought the words Villa and Allardyce would be connected together.


Jesus.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Risso on March 19, 2011, 08:15:13 PM
This time last year I would never have thought the words Villa and Allardyce would be connected together.


Jesus.

I didn't think that 'Villa' and 'relegation' would be either.  Here's to 'Houllier' and 'P45'.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: TonyD on March 19, 2011, 08:15:13 PM
I think we need at least 8 points to stay up.

That's two wins and two draws.

I think we will get only 5 points if SFB stays.  And 5 points is being generous.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ads on March 19, 2011, 08:23:07 PM
I think we'll stay up, despite how awful today was. However, the fact we're going to cut it so fine is a disgrace. There are so many people to hold responsible for this, that if we shot them all, we'd be close to carrying out a pogrom.

The Newcastle and Wigan games are the two we have to win. If we then avoid defeat away at West Brrom and West Ham, we'll be fine. It's doable and we have the quality, time for that intangible quality of belief.

It puts so much pressure on the Everton game now. What a total farce. The Wolves were just as awful as us. To get beat in such a manner...

Time for Gabby to go up top. Balls to 4-5-1.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ian. on March 19, 2011, 08:23:36 PM
This time last year I would never have thought the words Villa and Allardyce would be connected together.


Jesus.

I didn't think that 'Villa' and 'relegation' would be either.  Here's to 'Houllier' and 'P45'.

Nope, what the fuck has gone so wrong? In fact I don't think I want to know, in fact can't we just rewind to last year when Dunne fucked up in the Cup Final, and changed it to he didn't cock up, we won, came 4th, won the FA Cup, MON got manager of year and then the Liverpool job at the end of the season. We installed the next Alex Ferguson as manager and............ losing 7-1 to Newcastle was the start of a very bad dream.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ian. on March 19, 2011, 08:26:24 PM
There are so many people to hold responsible for this, that if we shot them all, we'd be close to carrying out a pogrom.

I think 'Nail on Head' is the correct term for that statement.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: russon on March 19, 2011, 08:26:41 PM
everton (a) 0 points
newcastle (h) 3
west ham (a) 0
stoke(h) 1
west brom (a) 0
wigan (h) 3
arsenal (a) 0
liverpool (h) 1

I reckon we'll muster these 8 points and stay up by the skin of our teeth. What a crap season.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Chipsticks on March 19, 2011, 08:28:46 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.
Sid in the short term? Dullins and chair leg aside  - someone who bleeds claret and blue for the club. Then a more considered long term replacement in the summer

Ian Taylor.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: TheSandman on March 19, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
Newcastle is no gimme.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 19, 2011, 08:31:22 PM
Newcastle is no gimme.

Sporting Bromsgrove reserves would be no gimme the way we're going.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: CJ on March 19, 2011, 08:31:42 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.
Sid in the short term? Dullins and chair leg aside  - someone who bleeds claret and blue for the club. Then a more considered long term replacement in the summer

Ian Taylor.
Agree Ian Taylor bleeds claret and blue but Sid clearly has proven coaching skills too

edit sp
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 19, 2011, 08:34:53 PM
I think under normal circumstances we could look to target three wins from Stoke, Newcastle and Wigwam at home.

That ignores the fact that we're not operating under normal circumstances at the moment - and we haven't beaten Wigan at VP since they came up in 2005.

I'd expect us to get at least a point at the Olbiyun as well.

Football being football, if we needed to win against Liverpool last game of the season I reckon we could do it. Though not with GH as manager. We do have a pretty dire record against sides managed by Dalglish though. I'm not sure I've ever seen us beat one.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ads on March 19, 2011, 08:36:00 PM
If we are making predictions, I think we'll draw with Everton, West Brom and beat Stoke, The Jawdees and Wigan. I can see us losing the rest. The league position will make it look more comfortable than it will be.

Small Heath, Wigan and Blackburn to bite it.

I'd take Alladyce now to be honest.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: JJ-AV on March 19, 2011, 08:37:16 PM
All this talk of passion, energy, someone who bleeds claret and blue etc. is all a load of bollocks really isn't it?

It's not 1974 and we don't need Mike Basset.

What we need is some sort of continuity at the back for the remaining games, Makoun to get back into the swing of things and Bent to start closing the opposition defenders down, and we shall be back winning games again.

Failing that we could put KMac in charge and bring back the highly paid footballers who currently aren't getting a look in, go back to basics and stay up using the counter-attacking style the majority of them are used to.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 19, 2011, 08:38:34 PM
To be frank calling for a manager who is a Villa legend, I don't get it really. It didn't work to well for Shearer at Newcastle in a relegation scrap.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: eric woolban woolban on March 19, 2011, 08:40:06 PM
We're fooked and we know we are.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Risso on March 19, 2011, 08:40:24 PM
To be frank calling for a manager who is a Villa legend, I don't get it really. It didn't work to well for Shearer at Newcastle in a relegation scrap.

We just need a manager who knows what he's doing. 
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: JJ-AV on March 19, 2011, 08:43:27 PM
Friedel
Cuellar - Collins - Dunne - Walker
Downing - Makoun - Petrov - Delph - Ashley
Bent

Is how I'd go for Everton, Newcastle and West Ham (maybe bring in Clark for Cuellar/Dunne and reshape to give us better balance when he's available).

Christ, we need some stability and the team to get some bloody momentum.

Albrighton, Gabby and Heskey give us options to change it.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 19, 2011, 08:44:06 PM
To be frank calling for a manager who is a Villa legend, I don't get it really. It didn't work to well for Shearer at Newcastle in a relegation scrap.

We just need a manager who knows what he's doing. 

I don't disagree with that, so therefore Martin Laursen and Ian Taylor as much as they were great for  us, they are not the men for the job.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 19, 2011, 08:45:36 PM
The scary thing is I am now starting to think that that stuff like this:

Friedel
Cuellar - Collins - Dunne - Walker
Downing - Makoun - Petrov - Delph - Ashley
Bent

... doesn't matter for shit.

The spirit is so pathetic, the spinelessness so complete, changing the line up isn't really going to help.

it is like watching 1986-7 again in that sense.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: JJ-AV on March 19, 2011, 08:48:28 PM
It does though. We're fragile in terms of confidence. Our defence is absolutely dreadful, it has been all season, and we're down to the bare bones there. The midfield is incapable of playing with confidence 'cos of the nervous crap we've got at the back.

Before today, we were the better side in our last 4 league games. I know, it's the results that count. But the signs are there and if we can get some sort of defensive stability back we'll be all right.

I said after the Sunderland game we needed 6 wins. I wasn't sure if Ged would get it us. We've won 3 (Man City, Wigan, Blackburn). We need 3 more from Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Stoke, West Brom, Wigan, Liverpool, Arsenal.

It'll be tight, but we'll do it.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 19, 2011, 08:53:49 PM
All this talk of passion, energy, someone who bleeds claret and blue etc. is all a load of bollocks really isn't it?

It's not 1974 and we don't need Mike Basset.

What we need is some sort of continuity at the back for the remaining games, Makoun to get back into the swing of things and Bent to start closing the opposition defenders down, and we shall be back winning games again.

Failing that we could put KMac in charge and bring back the highly paid footballers who currently aren't getting a look in, go back to basics and stay up using the counter-attacking style the majority of them are used to.

With you on this JJ

Pain comes with passion remember

They need to play like the footballers they are supposed to be. A solid team mentality with an objective mindset. A plan. Firstly to stop conceding.

Just do the simple things right!

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 19, 2011, 08:59:51 PM
I love bold, console inspired formations as much as the next man (if the next man hates them. Or is Martin O'Neill). But I reckon to give GH any chance, we need to think so far outside the box on this one we'll require a bus pass to get back.

How about:

10 players lined up behind Friedel on the goal-line and snipers in the crowd trained on the oppositions forward line just to make sure. As soon as they get near the 18 yard line, kapow! Let the Springfield do it's worst.

Ok we might still not actually win many games, but we should be able to grind out enough draws to see us safe.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Moose on March 19, 2011, 09:07:14 PM
You can't even get a bottle top in to the ground, I don't see how you'll get a gun in...

...oh, you're joking, aren't you?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: hawkeye on March 19, 2011, 09:07:53 PM
The diference between us and all those teams down there is that they look like they have some spirit and will fight to stay up, its obvious to any one that was there today that we dont
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: olaftab on March 19, 2011, 09:07:58 PM
Both Martin Jol and Louis van Gaal are out of work.  They would swim across if not for the prestige certainly for the money.
Go for van Gaal now. He will have a few games to look at players before the close season.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Risso on March 19, 2011, 09:09:09 PM
The diference between us and all those teams down there is that they look like they have some spirit and will fight to stay up, its obvious to any one that was there today that we dont

West Ham actually played really well today.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 19, 2011, 09:15:41 PM
You can't even get a bottle top in to the ground, I don't see how you'll get a gun in...

...oh, you're joking, aren't you?

You're absolutely right.

A Gatling gun opening up a channel just past the stewards is the only way to go.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2011, 09:16:02 PM
Both Martin Jol and Louis van Gaal are out of work.  They would swim across if not for the prestige certainly for the money.
Go for van Gaal now. He will have a few games to look at players before the close season.

I'd be highly surprised if Louis van Gaal touched us with a bargepole.  He's a Champions League Manager, he doesn't need to get involved in our shitty relegation battles.

Jol is a far more realistic option for us.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: TheSandman on March 19, 2011, 09:17:29 PM
The diference between us and all those teams down there is that they look like they have some spirit and will fight to stay up, its obvious to any one that was there today that we dont

West Ham actually played really well today.

Hitzelsperger getting fit has been the making of them.

I don't think we'll get a Jol or Van Gaal or Magath but just about anyone would be better than La Gaffeur.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: mikeb1982 on March 19, 2011, 09:20:41 PM
You can't even get a bottle top in to the ground, I don't see how you'll get a gun in...

...oh, you're joking, aren't you?

You're absolutely right.

A Gatling gun opening up a channel just past the stewards is the only way to go.
Landmines, thats the way forward
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 19, 2011, 09:22:54 PM
I think even Jol would have doubts about getting embroiled in a relegation scrap.

No suggestion that he is the ideal candidate to help us on that score and his reputation would take a hit if we went down. Too much to lose, I'd have thought. In the summer -if we stay up- maybe.

Personally I'd go for Kevin Mac.

I think/ hope he'd be able to generate a positive enough atmosphere to at least muster the two wins and a draw from our remaining games. We already know the players seem to like him and rate him, whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Situation on March 19, 2011, 09:25:03 PM
Right now it looks awful, just awful.

Until today relegation didn't geuinely concern, mainly because I didn't think we were going to Wolves at home. I'm terrified at the thought now and the wolves defeat has really smacked us in the face that we're not too good to go down.

I'm still not going to look to the last game though, just take it game-by-game. Relegation is what brings grown men to tears, it's horrific. Something I've never witnessed so I just can't imagine how bad it will be.

As long as we're 4 points clear going into 'Survival Sunday' we'll be fine. Easier said than done though.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: WikiVilla on March 19, 2011, 09:26:29 PM
It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: olaftab on March 19, 2011, 09:33:03 PM
Both Martin Jol and Louis van Gaal are out of work.  They would swim across if not for the prestige certainly for the money.
Go for van Gaal now. He will have a few games to look at players before the close season.

I'd be highly surprised if Louis van Gaal touched us with a bargepole.  He's a Champions League Manager, he doesn't need to get involved in our shitty relegation battles.

Jol is a far more realistic option for us.
van Gaal is out of work and the top 9/10 teams in Europe are all out of his reach. He blotted  his copybook by getting sacked from Bayern. So I think he will come to Villa as this will buy him Villa in the Caribbean.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2011, 09:33:14 PM
As re-appointing KMac (who we started off with) would just put the finishing touch to the most shambolic season down the Villa since the Mid 80's I think we should go for it.  For for a penny and all that.

This season has been a footballing pantomime.  It's surreal.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on March 19, 2011, 09:38:06 PM
After today we do look doomed, that's not an over reaction to todays poor performance.

Im am genuinly worried, shit scared even, that was as poor as I've seen in a very long time, that team was good enough to beat Wolves at least get a draw, we hit the bar that was it, their keeper made no saves, We looked devoid of ideas, the manager looked devoid of ideas. If we do stay up its going to be because the teams below us fuck it up....
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 19, 2011, 09:45:25 PM
It'd be a gamble, sure.

But so is sticking with GH.  In fact, that's looking less like a gamble. In so far as sticking with him just for the sake of sticking with him looks more certain to result in our demise. We have to seriously start thinking about the least worst option.

Taken as a whole, we've shown minimal improvement over the past three/four months.  What has helped us so far is that other sides have been worse. Do we gamble on that continuing to be the case, just at a time when they are showing an upturn in form and results?

Nevermind minimal improvement, today's performance was actually the worst in months - just at the time when we could ill afford it.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Billy Walker on March 19, 2011, 10:36:25 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.

I hope the supporters of the clubs below us are as ready to throw in the towel.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Moose on March 19, 2011, 10:44:36 PM
We are currently 14th, Small Heath are 19th.

See, there's always somebody worse off than you are!!
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 10:48:04 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.

I hope the supporters of the clubs below us are as ready to throw in the towel.

if it's like this at the other clubs, then 6 teams will be relegated this season. Today has been a bad day, but this thing will twist and turn yet. You can feel very optimistic with one good result, and equally as suicidal with a bad one like today. That's just how it will be between now and the end of the end of the season.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Chipsticks on March 19, 2011, 10:51:37 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.

I hope the supporters of the clubs below us are as ready to throw in the towel.

if it's like this at the other clubs, then 6 teams will be relegated this season. Today has been a bad day, but this thing will twist and turn yet. You can feel very optimistic with one good result, and equally as suicidal with a bad one like today. That's just how it will be between now and the end of the end of the season.

Gotta admit, it's been a lot more...exciting and tense that the O'neil Reign.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Situation on March 19, 2011, 10:54:14 PM
We are currently 14th, Small Heath are 19th.

See, there's always somebody worse off than you are!!
Just 2 points seperates us though.

The actual table and position is flattering to decieve. 14th somehow is misleading...
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 10:55:02 PM
I'll say again, who would you replace him with?
No idea but we're down under Houllier.

I hope the supporters of the clubs below us are as ready to throw in the towel.

if it's like this at the other clubs, then 6 teams will be relegated this season. Today has been a bad day, but this thing will twist and turn yet. You can feel very optimistic with one good result, and equally as suicidal with a bad one like today. That's just how it will be between now and the end of the end of the season.

Gotta admit, it's been a lot more...exciting and tense that the O'neil Reign.

you know, I said that very thing while MON was here. That under him, we'd be steady but usually never have enough to make the next big step. We'd never be relegated and we'd always be competitive. But we'd never quite be able to break through at the top. I could have put money on a top 7 finish from now to the end of time had he still been around. We'd have been broke mind you, but you get my point.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: holtepaul on March 19, 2011, 10:55:23 PM
I think it is totally simple.

Forget all the other games

Our season revolves around

Newcastle , Albion , West Ham , Wigan

We need 7 points out of those four games. If we get them, we will be safe.

In reality, that means Newcastle - WIN , Wigan - WIN , and a point from either of the Albion or West Ham games.

Do I think we will get them

NO - I think we are down !
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 10:57:00 PM
I think it is totally simple.

Forget all the other games

Our season revolves around

Newcastle , Albion , West Ham , Wigan

We need 7 points out of those four games. If we get them, we will be safe.

In reality, that means Newcastle - WIN , Wigan - WIN , and a point from either of the Albion or West Ham games.

Do I think we will get them

NO - I think we are down !

so the teams below us will all get the points they need?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Moose on March 19, 2011, 10:59:00 PM
You think 40 points will guarantee safety? Hmm.....
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: holtepaul on March 19, 2011, 11:01:22 PM
Yeah they will mate coz have a look at the fixtures, all the teams below us play each other in the last five or six games, so win lose or draw, all those around us will be picking up points.

We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Dave on March 19, 2011, 11:05:18 PM
We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !
We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ian. on March 19, 2011, 11:07:51 PM
That lanky bastard Carol and the long ball game has done us once already this season to be fair to Holtepaul.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: holtepaul on March 19, 2011, 11:08:10 PM
Eh yeah mate I have.

We cant beat Wolves at home - do you really think I expect to beat Arsenal away !

Get real will ya

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Situation on March 19, 2011, 11:10:06 PM
The thing is though, West Ham, Wolves and West Brom are showing more desire than us to stay up right now.

It's still too close to call. Even if you go with Wigan and Birmingham to go down (which is just a guess, anything can change) who will be the third? That 3rd team will be either us, West Ham, Baggies, Wolves, Blackpool, Blackburn... look at how close it's going to be.

But yea, the teams around us have got hard work to do too - it's not just us who are looking nervously at the run-in and it's no guarantee the other teams will just pick points up easily towards the end of the season. It's ridiculously tight. If we can somehow get 5 points from our next 3 games we'd need 5 points from the next 5... but we want to be safe by the final 2 games. I really do fear for us if we're still in the same sort of position come the final 2 games... we'd be really relying on the teams around us to lose them both too or just get 1 point max.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Dave on March 19, 2011, 11:11:14 PM
Eh yeah mate I have.

We cant beat Wolves at home - do you really think I expect to beat Arsenal away !

Get real will ya

Or maybe Arsenal could say that they can't beat West Brom from two attempts at doing so and we beat them comfortably.

We probably won't get anything. But it's a bit daft writing the game off at this point.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Situation on March 19, 2011, 11:12:36 PM
It'll take more than 40 points chaps. To be safe and sound I think we'd we need about 43/44 (I hope).

40 would be cutting it too fine I imagine.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2011, 11:13:52 PM
We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !
We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Situation on March 19, 2011, 11:16:53 PM
Eh yeah mate I have.

We cant beat Wolves at home - do you really think I expect to beat Arsenal away !

Get real will ya

Or maybe Arsenal could say that they can't beat West Brom from two attempts at doing so and we beat them comfortably.

We probably won't get anything. But it's a bit daft writing the game off at this point.
Exactly. Arsenal aren't invincible. Just shut them down like West Brom and Birmingham.

It's more likely Arsenal would win but it isn't a total write off. I'd just like us to be pretty safe by then.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: hawkeye on March 19, 2011, 11:38:22 PM
to be safe we need 3 wins from the next 6 games, unlikely they will be got at Arse or Lpool, so we have to get them out of the rest, I cant see it, we have got 5 points from our last 6 games, we have lost 3 in a row.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 11:52:40 PM
We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !
We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.


does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2011, 11:53:37 PM
We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !
We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.


does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?

Um where do we start, how about 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: OzVilla on March 19, 2011, 11:54:51 PM
We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !
We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.


does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?

Um where do we start, how about 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away.

Man Citeh away
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 19, 2011, 11:57:24 PM
We have Arsenal, Liverpool and all - 0 points ! thus making my four games TOTALLY CRUCIAL !
We've written those two games off completely then have we?

Smashing. Good thing we didn't decide we would get nothing from the Man Utd and Chelsea games I suppose.

Our Manager has recent form for writing off those sorts of games though Dave, that's the worry.

Our mindset, body language and approach to matches is appalling.

He's proven since the day he walked through the dorr to be is a clueless defeatist whose got to go or we'll be down.


does he? I'll grant you he could have done better in the FA Cup, but in which game in the league has he thrown in the towel?

Um where do we start, how about 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away.

Man Citeh away

I knew you'd go to those two games. Did he write them off by picking a weakened team, or did we just play shit? Not the same at all.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: OzVilla on March 20, 2011, 12:01:44 AM
So you now admit that there are expamples then. 

I chose those as they were the most obvious examples and that they are the 'top' 4' opposition that Dave was suggesting we should'nt write ourselves off against.

Check out GH's post match comments if you don't think he thought we didn't stand a chance anyway, although we were poor all we really got was exactly what the Manager expected according to him - that's the kind of mindset that filters down to the players.  That get's us to where we are now.  In the shit.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 20, 2011, 12:05:23 AM
So you now admit that there are expamples then. 

I chose those as they were the most obvious examples and that they are the 'top' 4' opposition that Dave was suggesting we should'nt write ourselves off against.

Check out GH's post match comments if you don't think he thought we didn't stand a chance anyway, although we were poor all we really got was exactly what the Manager expected according to him - that's the kind of mindset that filters down to the players.  That get's us to where we are now.  In the shit.

no off course they are not examples. I just said as much. I said we played shit, and not that the manager threw the towel in before the game started as you are suggesting. If you are so confident of that opinion, why didn't we get battered by 7 at Chelsea again, or give up fighting against Man U? They are equally valid arguments to suggest he doesn't just pull the chute against top teams.

Are you honestly suggesting that not only had the manager given up prior to those games, but that he also convinced his staff and players during the course of the week that it wasn't worth it?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: The Situation on March 20, 2011, 12:11:54 AM
Just been looking at fixtures for other teams. Some have got it quite tough, some have got it easier.

40 points wouldn't be enough I don't think. It'd be cutting it too fine like I said previously. 43/44 should hopefully see us safe.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: OzVilla on March 20, 2011, 12:18:24 AM
So you now admit that there are expamples then. 

I chose those as they were the most obvious examples and that they are the 'top' 4' opposition that Dave was suggesting we should'nt write ourselves off against.

Check out GH's post match comments if you don't think he thought we didn't stand a chance anyway, although we were poor all we really got was exactly what the Manager expected according to him - that's the kind of mindset that filters down to the players.  That get's us to where we are now.  In the shit.

no off course they are not examples. I just said as much. I said we played shit, and not that the manager threw the towel in before the game started as you are suggesting. If you are so confident of that opinion, why didn't we get battered by 7 at Chelsea again, or give up fighting against Man U? They are equally valid arguments to suggest he doesn't just pull the chute against top teams.

Well firstly Chelsea aren't nearly the side this year that they were when we got that tonking.  And Man Utd did enough against us, they had a gear or two in them if they needed it which they didn't.

His whole demeanour backed up by his post match comments is of someone who doesn't believe we can compete in games against the Top 4/5 sides, perhaps I am wrong but that's always how it comes across.  He admitted against both 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and Citeh that they moment we went behind the game was up as they had too much quality for us - what sort of Mangerial leadership is that ffs.  They are precise examples of throwing in the towel imo.

I honestly think GH will look at the Arsenal game for example as one to pretty much write off now and concentrate on the other games - for example a point is an unexpected bonus.  Everything he's said and done up untill now would lead to this conclusion. 

He's turned what was an decent Premiership team into a poor one.  That's probably why the players look so disinterested in playing for him right now.

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Hoppo on March 20, 2011, 12:26:26 AM
You cant defend Houllier after today the man is clueless! Pires wtf! What is with this football snobbery weve got? Big Sam 3 wins stay up and consider options in the summer. I was there when we got relegated against Sheff Wed in 87. 16500 Robinson and Gallagher making their debuts! Dont want that feeling ever again but its happening. Were sleepwalking into relegation at the moment.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 20, 2011, 12:37:11 AM
Or how about the reaction post Man U game at home?

"When they got the first, you knew they would get the second."

Really? Well the onus is kinda on you to try and stop that.
Yes we all feared that would be the case, but you don't want your own manager saying as much -and seemingly happy just to drift with the tide.

Which pretty much sums up the entire GH reign, he just seems in permanent cruise control. Whether it's the awareness now that football pales into insignificance after the kind of healthscare he had in 2001 I'm not sure. Yes it does pale into insignificance, but you still want a manager with a bit of fight in him. And no, that doesn't necessarily mean tearing around the dugout like a dervish or tormenting the 4th official. I don't hate the bloke - in weaker moments I actually pity him (though when I think of the reported Ł4 million (!) salary he's drawing down to throw big games it tempers those thoughts somewhat).

He brings an academic approach to football and his record pre Villa deserves respect. Most top managers have at least one club where it doesn't work out. He hasn't helped his own cause with some of his comments that displayed a lack of respect and awareness for our place in the game, but in truth it seems to be a growing trend amongst those who don't have some kind of history or former tie to the club.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: hawkeye on March 20, 2011, 12:46:59 AM
The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Hoppo on March 20, 2011, 12:50:03 AM
Spot on Hawkeye.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: BannedUserIAT on March 20, 2011, 03:12:07 AM
The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.


So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PhilGibson on March 20, 2011, 09:20:48 AM
Momentum means a lot during the run in for relegation candidates, Blackburn, Blues, Blackpool, West Brom and Us are the teams on a downward spiral of results, West Ham, Wigan (after yesterday) and Wolves have an upward trajectory of results.

The problem we have and what could seal our fate is we have little experience of being in the fight for relegation, we do not have the players who are prepared to throw everything at it, and we are lacking the passion, grit and determination throughout the side.

Whatever is said and done, this season has been an unmitagated disaster, we lurch from one crisis to another.

We are the Newcastle team of two years ago, and we are not too big or too good to go down. I am more fearful now than ever, after watching yesterday's gutless display.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 20, 2011, 09:31:00 AM
The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.


Unfortunately, it is hard to disagree with any of that.

Right now, Randy should be sounding out possible replacements, to at least give ourselves a plan b in these two weeks.

I bet he isn't, though, as that would be too dishonourable for him. Well, lets see how much honour there is in watching us slip out of the top tier.

Piss poor leadership, just when we need the opposite. 
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: sfx412 on March 20, 2011, 09:44:16 AM
It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though


indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 20, 2011, 10:14:11 AM
It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though


indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.

I would give both an equal 'very little' hope. Houllier has more experience but is the centre of a rotten regime, and KMac has no experience but may please a few in the camp till the end of the season.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 20, 2011, 10:34:02 AM
The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.


So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?

It's irrelevant exactly where the blame lies. Even if you're right, what are we going to do to stave off relegation? Sack the chairman and the players?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 20, 2011, 10:36:14 AM
The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.


Unfortunately, it is hard to disagree with any of that.

Right now, Randy should be sounding out possible replacements, to at least give ourselves a plan b in these two weeks.

I bet he isn't, though, as that would be too dishonourable for him. Well, lets see how much honour there is in watching us slip out of the top tier.

Piss poor leadership, just when we need the opposite. 

How about Martin Jol and Chris Hughton?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 20, 2011, 10:38:03 AM
8 Vital games, I can see no way of Houllier lifting the team.
He should go and we need somebody who can provide a short term fix.
It's not ideal, but neither is being in the poxy Championship.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: BannedUserIAT on March 20, 2011, 12:18:48 PM
The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.


So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?

It's irrelevant exactly where the blame lies. Even if you're right, what are we going to do to stave off relegation? Sack the chairman and the players?

That was sarcasm, Percy. I don't blame Lerner.
Well, actually I do yes for giving MoN a push without having someone to replace him. And for hiring a 17 year old East-Enders look-a-like instead of getting a football person in.

Aside from that, though, the blame for the mess this season is in lies with Houllier.

I was just pointing out the folly of Hawkeye's comment about only ever blaming the more senior manager for the woes of his subordinates.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Pat McMahon on March 20, 2011, 01:22:39 PM
It’s a cold and rainy night in Shanghai so I thought I could depress myself further by looking at our form under Gerard.

If my memory is correct he took over before Wolves away, when we had 7 points from 5 games and we were placed relatively healthily at 8th in the table.  We now sit in 14th with 33 points from 30 games – that is 26 points from 25 games. In that same period, counting from the bottom of the table upwards on 19 September, W Ham have gained 31 points, Everton 38 points,  Wigan 26 points, Stoke 33 points,  Liverpool 37 points, Wolves 27 points, Blackburn 28 points,  Bolton 34 points, Blues 25 points,  Sunderland 32 points,  Albion 26 points,  Blackpool 26 points, Fulham 28 points, Newcastle 29 points. The other 5 clubs are in a different league.

In other words, if you base our form on the past 25 games - a reasonable sample, statistically – the table would look have Blues bottom with 25 points, then Wigan, Albion, Blackpool and Villa on 26 points, Wolves on 27 and Fulham & Blackburn on 28 points (I can’t be arsed to calculate goal difference, so thanks to anybody who can cheer me up if this works in our favour). So it could come down to goal difference and I am not sure my poor we heart can cope with that from this distance, (or any other distance to be honest).

I actually think that sacking GH now would have no benefit as I simply cannot see an obvious replacement. There are a couple of people who could well get us through a dogfight – Big Sam, Neil Warnock – but would they be viable medium term managers of the club? The answer to that may depend on which division we find ourselves come May. Oh irony of ironies, MON would be very well suited to this situation.

I have to be frank, I am shitting myself with every game now.

Apologies for the double post, but I wasn’t sure which thread this was most suited to.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: hawkeye on March 20, 2011, 09:52:07 PM
The bloke is a disaster, the squad are out of controll, he seems unable to sort out the defence, he puts Pires on the pitch, he makes ludicrous comments about our club, he throws games, persists in playing Young in a role he cant manage. Finally he has turned the support against him.


So, players go out of control with disastrous results and turn the fans against them and it's their manager's fault.
Surely then, by your own rules, this must lie squarely at Lerner's feet, leaving Houllier blame-free?
Who is ultimately responsible for the playing staff? The fans turned on Houlier, saw your above post ::)
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 20, 2011, 09:59:48 PM
It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though


indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.

I think come the end of the season we'll be thankful that Mac managed to at least win those two home games in August.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 20, 2011, 10:27:53 PM
It would bring some symmetry to our season
KMac started it in charge and should finish it in charge
Bit unfair on KMac though


indeed he started the bad run why not let him have the glory of finishing the job and take us down.

We have little hope under Houllier under K M there would be no hope.

I would give both an equal 'very little' hope. Houllier has more experience but is the centre of a rotten regime, and KMac has no experience but may please a few in the camp till the end of the season.

That might just be enough though.

If Kevin Mac was to get any kind of response would two wins and a few draws out of the the remaining 8 games seem so unlikely, bearing in mind the sides we are playing?

It might not even be beyond Houllier and -chances are- we're going to have to test that theory as I don't think RL will make any changes this season now. Barring a rout at Everton, then he might have little choice but to act.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 20, 2011, 10:32:09 PM
when the squad was meant to be happy to have KM in charge, they went and royally shit the bed at Newcastle. We could have lost by 10 that day. What makes anyone think that he's the man for the crisis now? He wasn't the man then and I don't think he's the man now.

Two weeks ago, having beaten Blackburn we were all more buoyant and confident that we had more than enough to see this through. On the verge of 3-1, having completely battered a good Bolton side on their own pitch, most of us were still thinking that despite the events of Man City, the team had plenty of ability and should see this thing through. Did the players suddenly give up on the manager? Did Ash miss his kick on purpose as a preverbial 2 finger salute to all of us? Did the side suddenly cave in defensively as a show of defiance to the board? No. They just played badly. It wasn't about the manager. It wasn't about him having lost the confidence of the players. As professionals they didn't do their job, every bit as much as the week before they did.

Yesterday was horrible, and at the worst possible time. On the back of a Bolton loss, a week off to watch Man City advance to the semi-final of the FA Cup, and then the events at the spa. It's culimnated in a lot of bad news in short order. We've all seen Villa play like that before. Many times at crucial times under MON if everyone remembers. MON hadn't lost the confidence of his players then, and neither do I believe GH has now (certain players aside). I think yesterday we just played really badly and got everything we deserved.

I posted this thread, not as a way to predict anything. I posted it so that we could see what everyone has left. That every team and set of fans in this position, and I could even have included Fulham in that, will be feeling the same as us. That we're going down for sure. Blues fans will be shitting it having thrown away the game versus Wigan, Baggies fans for throwing away a good lead vs Arsenal. West Ham on the surface showed a lot of spirit, but they got well lucky that Defoe had a nightmare in front of goal. Blackpool will be very upset to throw away their lead and so on. I'm not going to diminish the task at hand, but we're all in the same boat. I don't see our path any harder than that of the other teams, and I certainly won't be waving the white flag yet.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 20, 2011, 10:50:03 PM
Newcastle was a bit of a freak result though, even in this annus horribilis of a season. Annus horrificus, in fact.

We actually played well for the opening 30 minutes. It did offer a portent of what we might come to expect from Friedel and Dunne, mind (in saying that, Friedel was MOTM in the next game v Everton).

Contrast the Newcastle game and that decent 30 minutes with Blackburn away,  Liverpool away Man Citeh away (twice) Sunderland and Wolves at home (just off the top of my head) where we didn't play well at any stage of the match.

Then there were other matches like Spurs at home, where we might have had periods of dominance, but never even looked like beating a side down to 10 men.

I don't think Kevin Mac would be in anyway a long term solution (I'm not sure he'd even want the job on a short term basis again either) and I don't think our defence would suddenly improve tenfold. In fact, I'd still expect a few hammerings between now and the end of the campaign.

But:

We might just have a better chance of etching out the 2/3 wins we need under a figure the players have a degree of time and respect for, rather than one they clearly don't.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: hawkeye on March 20, 2011, 10:59:17 PM
KG has a point, they all want to play for him, they dont want to play for Houlier. It would also get the fans back on side and  this is going to be a critical factor in the critical home games.
If we send the team out to face the sort of atmosphere at VP on Saturday then we are half way dead allready.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 20, 2011, 11:11:12 PM
Newcastle was a bit of a freak result though, even in this annus horribilis of a season. Annus horrificus, in fact.

We actually played well for the opening 30 minutes. It did offer a portent of what we might come to expect from Friedel and Dunne, mind (in saying that, Friedel was MOTM in the next game v Everton).

Contrast the Newcastle game and that decent 30 minutes with Blackburn away,  Liverpool away Man Citeh away (twice) Sunderland and Wolves at home (just off the top of my head) where we didn't play well at any stage of the match.

Then there were other matches like Spurs at home, where we might have had periods of dominance, but never even looked like beating a side down to 10 men.

I don't think Kevin Mac would be in anyway a long term solution (I'm not sure he'd even want the job on a short term basis again either) and I don't think our defence would suddenly improve tenfold. In fact, I'd still expect a few hammerings between now and the end of the campaign.

But:

We might just have a better chance of etching out the 2/3 wins we need under a figure the players have a degree of time and respect for, rather than one they clearly don't.

yep and we missed a penalty at 0-0 up there which set the tone for the season with Carroll then eating our defence alive for the rest of the game.

What did for McDonald and probably cost him the chance of a full time job was the disaster of the second leg v Vienna but he did at least win two of his three home games. Houllier has managed 4 wins in 12 games.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 20, 2011, 11:14:23 PM
People seem to be talking about getting KM to see us through to the end of the season, seemingly without think about how he'd feel about it, having been passed over for the job a few months ago.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 20, 2011, 11:17:52 PM
That's why I said I'm not even sure he would go for it.

He might feel snubbed. Or: If he had doubts about taking the job back then, what kind of doubts would he have now?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 20, 2011, 11:27:16 PM
That's why I said I'm not even sure he would go for it.

He might feel snubbed. Or: If he had doubts about taking the job back then, what kind of doubts would he have now?

I would be amazed if he took the job on an "until the end of the season" basis, without some cinfirmation he'd keep it if we stayed up.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 20, 2011, 11:36:15 PM
That's why I said I'm not even sure he would go for it.

He might feel snubbed. Or: If he had doubts about taking the job back then, what kind of doubts would he have now?

I would be amazed if he took the job on an "until the end of the season" basis, without some cinfirmation he'd keep it if we stayed up.

Lets say RL goes to him and says "we think you are the man to get us the points we need to stay up. Will you take over until the end of the season?"

Should any employee of Aston Villa remain in the employ of Aston Villa if they refuse to step up to the plate when asked to by their boss?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 20, 2011, 11:41:12 PM
That's why I said I'm not even sure he would go for it.

He might feel snubbed. Or: If he had doubts about taking the job back then, what kind of doubts would he have now?

I would be amazed if he took the job on an "until the end of the season" basis, without some cinfirmation he'd keep it if we stayed up.

Lets say RL goes to him and says "we think you are the man to get us the points we need to stay up. Will you take over until the end of the season?"

Should any employee of Aston Villa remain in the employ of Aston Villa if they refuse to step up to the plate when asked to by their boss?

Football is immune from considerations like that which you'd find in any other workplace.

For example, Dunne and Collins would have been sacked on the spot last week.

You can't force someone to do a job which they're not employed to do, either. And it strikes me that turning to someone to get you out of a hole, in desperation, and then forcing them to take the job on isn't really the best start.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 20, 2011, 11:50:34 PM
That's why I said I'm not even sure he would go for it.

He might feel snubbed. Or: If he had doubts about taking the job back then, what kind of doubts would he have now?

I would be amazed if he took the job on an "until the end of the season" basis, without some cinfirmation he'd keep it if we stayed up.

Lets say RL goes to him and says "we think you are the man to get us the points we need to stay up. Will you take over until the end of the season?"

Should any employee of Aston Villa remain in the employ of Aston Villa if they refuse to step up to the plate when asked to by their boss?

Football is immune from considerations like that which you'd find in any other workplace.

For example, Dunne and Collins would have been sacked on the spot last week.

You can't force someone to do a job which they're not employed to do, either. And it strikes me that turning to someone to get you out of a hole, in desperation, and then forcing them to take the job on isn't really the best start.

Well obviously in the scenario I gave I wouldn't expect or want RL to add, "and if you say no, you're sacked". But we talk of players showing loyalty and stepping up when it counts, with how long KM has been here, shouldn't he in theory care more about the future of Villa than say Habib Beye or Richard Dunne?

If the scenario I gave happened, and lets assume it became public, would you want KM to remain if he turned it down?
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 21, 2011, 12:02:47 AM
That's why I said I'm not even sure he would go for it.

He might feel snubbed. Or: If he had doubts about taking the job back then, what kind of doubts would he have now?

I would be amazed if he took the job on an "until the end of the season" basis, without some cinfirmation he'd keep it if we stayed up.

Lets say RL goes to him and says "we think you are the man to get us the points we need to stay up. Will you take over until the end of the season?"

Should any employee of Aston Villa remain in the employ of Aston Villa if they refuse to step up to the plate when asked to by their boss?

Football is immune from considerations like that which you'd find in any other workplace.

For example, Dunne and Collins would have been sacked on the spot last week.

You can't force someone to do a job which they're not employed to do, either. And it strikes me that turning to someone to get you out of a hole, in desperation, and then forcing them to take the job on isn't really the best start.

Well obviously in the scenario I gave I wouldn't expect or want RL to add, "and if you say no, you're sacked". But we talk of players showing loyalty and stepping up when it counts, with how long KM has been here, shouldn't he in theory care more about the future of Villa than say Habib Beye or Richard Dunne?

If the scenario I gave happened, and lets assume it became public, would you want KM to remain if he turned it down?

If he was still good at the job he's doing now? Yes, of course I would.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: PeterWithesShin on March 21, 2011, 12:07:48 AM
Fair enough Paulie, I have to be honest and say i'd be very disappointed in any Villa  employee saying no when/if the club said they wanted their help in securing the future of the club.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 21, 2011, 12:09:15 AM
Fair enough Paulie, I have to be honest and say i'd be very disappointed in any Villa  employee saying no when/if the club said they wanted their help in securing the future of the club.

I know what you mean, but I was thinking mostly that when he was caretaker, KM often looked very uncomfortable in the role (the stuff about him saying he didn't know if he wanted it, etc etc), and from there, what would happen if he were asked, but said he didn't feel comfortable with the media element / didn't think he'd handle the pressure (and it will be intense) etc.

In those circumstances, he'd be doing us a favour saying no.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Brian Taylor on March 21, 2011, 12:52:53 AM
I know, I know, I know x 3 x 5 x 8 and more. 1970 and later..all the desperate status and same again. AV ought to be, and deserve to be at the pinnacle of success; and manage to be where? Exactly here, where  we are...WHY?  30/40 years of the same old same old same old and same old...
Two weeks of no attenance will tell them why, and quick!.
Why endure the misery?





Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Stu on March 21, 2011, 01:49:19 AM
I know, I know, I know x 3 x 5 x 8 and more. 1970 and later..all the desperate status and same again. AV ought to be, and deserve to be at the pinnacle of success; and manage to be where? Exactly here, where  we are...WHY?  30/40 years of the same old same old same old and same old...
Two weeks of no attenance will tell them why, and quick!.
Why endure the misery?

We still all go because we're all obsessed with the Villa. There's no way I'd ever back a boycott of games (unless we were bought out by Colonel Gadaffi or something) because it'd do more harm than good to have the players looking up at empty stands. Mind you, with the way they apparently stunk the place out yesterday, that's precisely what's going to happen anyway :P

And I'm not sure Villa deserve to be anywhere to be honest. We've not won anything for a long time now and our seasons are regularly over by around this time of year anyway.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: *shellac* on March 21, 2011, 05:47:12 AM
Just been looking at fixtures for other teams. Some have got it quite tough, some have got it easier.
That's what we thought when we had that "Winnable 11 Games" (or something like that) thread weeks ago.

8 games to save our season.

I live in fear.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 21, 2011, 07:27:27 AM
There's no way I'd ever back a boycott of games (unless we were bought out by Colonel Gadaffi or something)

Oh I dont know, he seems to have more stomach for a fight than some of our lot.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Villa'Zawg on March 21, 2011, 08:03:42 AM
Kev Mac is one of very, very few people to come out of this season with any credit. His enormous dignity and selflessness at the start of the season is a shining beacon in an otherwise dark and murky episode in our history.

If the board has been caught with their pants down again, I think he'd step up to the plate and that he would be better for the run-in than Gerard.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: WikiVilla on March 21, 2011, 08:10:36 AM
KMac/Sid/TMc to night-watchmen to the summer keep us up then either Van Gaal, Jol or Sparky to come in
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: lordmcgrath5 on March 21, 2011, 08:55:53 AM
KMac/Sid/TMc to night-watchmen to the summer keep us up then either Van Gaal, Jol or Sparky to come in

Why would Van Gaal want to join Villa having just left the biggest club in Germany? Not going to happen.

Jol - my choice as well.

Sparky - mantra-like reciter of excuses for mid-table mediocrity. Granted, that's better than our current situation, but not exactly the stuff that dreams are made of.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: NeilH on March 21, 2011, 09:01:06 AM
KMac/Sid/TMc to night-watchmen to the summer keep us up then either Van Gaal, Jol or Sparky to come in

Why would Van Gaal want to join Villa having just left the biggest club in Germany? Not going to happen.


Van Gaal is a funny one. Bear in mind that he went from the pinnacle of European football to manage AZ Alkmaar. If there's one thing that Van Gaal relishes, it is an opportunity to have full control of the management of a club coupled with a strong youth system. He has on a number of occasions stated that he'd like to manage in the Prem and as long as Randy was prepared to back totally off, then he could be a success.
Having said that, I suspect he'll take over at Vitesse Arnhem next season.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Merv on March 21, 2011, 09:47:59 AM
So, we finish with Arsenal and Liverpool, then? Great.

Liverpool to beat and relegate us on the last day of the season, with Houllier, a wry smile and glint in his eye, proclaiming: 'Well, if we had to be relegated by anyone....'

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Jim™ on March 21, 2011, 10:02:32 AM
Liverpool to beat and relegate us on the last day of the season, with Houllier, a wry smile and glint in his eye, proclaiming: 'Well, if we had to be relegated by anyone....'



I just laughed heartilly, loving the gallows humour!
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 21, 2011, 10:18:08 AM
I know, I know, I know x 3 x 5 x 8 and more. 1970 and later..all the desperate status and same again. AV ought to be, and deserve to be at the pinnacle of success; and manage to be where? Exactly here, where  we are...WHY?  30/40 years of the same old same old same old and same old...
Two weeks of no attenance will tell them why, and quick!.
Why endure the misery?

30/40 years of the same old same old? A period in which we've won the league, been champions of Europe, and picked up plenty of league cups?

If we think we've had it bad over that period, we're kidding ourselves.

Look at the rest of the top flight for starters and think how bad they've had it. Look at Newcastle who have won NOTHING for nigh on half a century. Look at the millions of football supporters in this country who support clubs who have never won anything.

Let's not get carried away and pretend we're some poster boy for non achievement or mediocrity - we are, even in recent years, one of the most successful football clubs in this country. There are plenty of fans who have it far, far tougher than we do.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: jonzy85 on March 21, 2011, 11:30:25 AM
I think Newcastle and Fulham sould be in this list as well, perhaps even Stoke. Newcastle in particular are on a horrible run and it wont take much for the fans to turn on Pardew, who they didnt want in the first place (sound familiar).

I'm looking at Newcastle at home as being the key game. It's very winnable, they are not good away from home, have no striker we should be afraid of and their defence looked as bad as anything we have produced this season on Saturday. 3 points against them, would certainly boost confidence and I think we could kick on from then. It would also see them dragged right into it. It's a Sunday tv game as well, so Ashley will look at it as one where he will most definitely be in the shop window.

All in all, since Saturday, relegation is a genuine concern. It has been nagging at me all season but I didnt really think we could drop that low.

What gives me heart is that there are so many teams in the shit with us and I dont expect them all to be able to get the necessary points.

I think we  just need to get 1 win and we could kick on. If we find ourselves in the bottom 3 before the Arsenal game, I do think we are most likely down.

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: hawkeye on March 21, 2011, 11:48:59 AM
Kev Mac is one of very, very few people to come out of this season with any credit. His enormous dignity and selflessness at the start of the season is a shining beacon in an otherwise dark and murky episode in our history.

If the board has been caught with their pants down again, I think he'd step up to the plate and that he would be better for the run-in than Gerard.
With you all the way, i said before a massive factor is the atmosphere at VP, at least with Le Stink gone the fans would get behind the team
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: WikiVilla on March 21, 2011, 12:11:48 PM
Spot on houllier and his muppet have poisoned the atmosphere down B6

Overall the fans have been patient/well behaved, but enough is enough now
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: LeeS on March 21, 2011, 12:30:04 PM
I'm looking at Newcastle at home as being the key game. It's very winnable, they are not good away from home, have no striker we should be afraid of and their defence looked as bad as anything we have produced this season on Saturday.

You could have said exactly the same about Wolves...
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Concrete John on March 21, 2011, 12:35:07 PM
Normally you'd say a point away to Everton and then a win at home to Newcastle. 

That's what you'd normally say.

At the moment I'd bite your arm off if offered a point from each.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: jonzy85 on March 21, 2011, 12:51:47 PM
I just did the BBC predictor thing and, surprisingly had us finishing fairly safe! I thought I was being fairly pessismistic too (losing to Everton, Liverpool and Arsenal).

I did have us beating Newcastle at home. If we can do that, we couldnt really cherry pick better fixtures in Stoke and Wigan (Home), West Ham and West Brom (Away).

If we get the win against Newcastle, the confidence should return and with that some spirit. We then should have enough to get the required points from the above 4 fixtures.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: WikiVilla on March 21, 2011, 01:21:32 PM
How on earth can west ham or west brom away be games we'd cherry pick ?? Both sides playing and battling for their lives much better than we are
Wigan at home will be very tough, not sure about Stoke
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2011, 01:26:48 PM
You'd rather play the poorer sides because they're crap. The Wolves on Saturday were absolute toilet. Any half decent team would have smashed them into next week.

The fact is we were unbelievably poor. Not a patch on how we played at Bolton. Very few sides can get away with being as poor as we were an expect to get anything.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: WikiVilla on March 21, 2011, 01:34:12 PM
We weren't that great at Bolton, they only woke up after ash's pen miss and then scored 2 goals whilst in 2nd gear

Wolves played well on Saturday and it should have been more than 0-1
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2011, 01:42:01 PM
Don't re-write history.

Offensively we were excellent at Bolton. If we'd have scored 6 then nobody could have complained. We had three high balls to defend all game and fluffed them, which is why we are where we are.

The Wolves were garbage. They defended resolutely against our clueless play. But excellent? Save the hyperbole.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 21, 2011, 01:47:35 PM
Don't re-write history.

Offensively we were excellent at Bolton. If we'd have scored 6 then nobody could have complained. We had three high balls to defend all game and fluffed them, which is why we are where we are.

That is correct.

There's no need to rewrite history, anyway, after all, it's not as if there aren't already enough absolutely shit things to point at.

Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Ads on March 21, 2011, 01:51:34 PM
Don't re-write history.

Offensively we were excellent at Bolton. If we'd have scored 6 then nobody could have complained. We had three high balls to defend all game and fluffed them, which is why we are where we are.

That is correct.

There's no need to rewrite history, anyway, after all, it's not as if there aren't already enough absolutely shit things to point at.



Every time I think of the Bolton goals in my head, I accidently jump the the Britannia Stadium, where the winning goal was caused by the same problem. And that was in September.

Same for Fulham away too.

Boils my piss.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: adrenachrome on March 21, 2011, 02:56:26 PM
Bolton was an impressive display overall, and we should have been 4 up by half time.

The defensive lapses cost us the game, and it seems to have knocked the confidence out of the players.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: Concrete John on March 21, 2011, 02:59:36 PM
Bolton was an impressive display overall, and we should have been 4 up by half time.

The defensive lapses cost us the game, and it seems to have knocked the confidence out of the players.

And It's the manager's job to knock it back into them.  He's failed.
Title: Re: The run-in for the "looking" doomed
Post by: KevinGage on March 21, 2011, 03:52:13 PM
Bolton was an impressive display overall, and we should have been 4 up by half time.

The defensive lapses cost us the game, and it seems to have knocked the confidence out of the players.

That's been the case pretty much all season and eventually it has a corrosive impact on team spirit.

What's the point in scoring x amount of goals when we'll ship at least as much if not more.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal