Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: eastie on March 10, 2011, 10:44:09 AM
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very interesting article in todays mirror-
Houllier's Aston Villa team selection at Manchester City in the FA Cup understandably infuriated fans. And it even exasperated most of the Midlands press too.
Because while Houllier has publicly been quoted stressing he is "not in PR", he has actually tried to woo the locally-based press and give us an admirable insight into his personality, methods and plans.
The Frenchman was kind enough to invite a number of Midlands-based radio, TV and written reporters to Villa Park two weeks ago for a meal.
Houllier really looked after us all in the club's excellent Villa Midlands Food (VMF) restaurant where we were treated to a three-course meal and a selection of good wines.
None of those invited were naive enough to believe Houllier wanted to pick our brains on who to select or hear our life stories.
Houllier, who is both experienced and intelligent, almost certainly intended to ensure some favourable future coverage by opening up to us and showing himself to be a decent person.
And he succeeded as not only did he give us a valuable, positive perspective on his new regime, Houllier was also very personable.
Even BBC Radio 5Live's excellent Midlands reporter Pat Murphy, who had steeled himself to be unmoved by any charm offensive, admitted afterwards how much he had enjoyed the evening.
But all Houllier's hard-work and schmoozing was swiftly undone by his team selection at Eastlands in Villa's limp 3-0 defeat last Wednesday.
I was at the game and was simply stunned by Houllier's line-up with a quarter-final at home to Championship Reading up for grabs and it was inevitable he got a terrible press the next day .
It was another blunder by Houllier up there with his homage to former club Liverpool in Villa's defeat at Anfield last December.
And Houllier's attempts in the post-match press conference at Eastlands to justify his selection immediately afterwards were equally unwise as he confessed he didn't think Villa could beat City .
Houllier has also developed a rather odd habit of saying one thing to the press and then doing a complete U-turn.
For example, when Houllier arrived, he said Ashley Young was a winger for England so would play on the wing for Villa - then played him in the hole.
Houllier said before January he had no plans to get another striker - then went and spent £24million on Darren Bent.
When Bent joined, Houllier insisted John Carew was still part of the squad - then offloaded the Norwegian to Stoke days later.
And just last week he claimed Barry Bannan would not be going out on loan - and he has now joined Leeds until the end of the season!
But despite Houllier's penchant for gaffes and about-turns, following his recent meal with the press I must say his philosophy on the game makes complete sense.
Houllier spoke to us all individually about his views on how the game should be played, his tactics and coach Gary McAllister described a normal week training at the club.
Their decision to implement an attractive, attacking 4-2-3-1 formation should eventually help Villa play 4-3-3 which top sides like Spain and Barcelona use.
And new Cameroon midfielder Jean Makoun, 27, who cost £6million in January, looks like one to watch.
Fans might not appreciate fully just what Makoun is capable of after his red card at Blackpool and subsequent three-game ban.
But he will be available for Villa's next game at home to Wolves and should be a key player in the run-in.
Houllier and McAllister have high hopes for Makoun after their ProZone stats showed he successfully completed over 100 passes in the game last month at Old Trafford.
Apparently very few players ever complete over 100 passes - unless you are talking about Barcelona aces like Xavi and Andres Iniesta - and Makoun did it against no lesser opponents than Manchester United.
Robert Pires' recent display against Blackburn has also finally offered a glimpse into why he was offered a contract while Villa are working hard to improve Bent's weaker left-foot.
Houllier said he spent a lot of time helping Michael Owen during his time at Liverpool to get the striker to shoot more with his left foot.
And it famously paid off when Owen scored a dramatic late winner in the 2001 FA Cup final against Arsenal.
Now at Villa, Houllier's methods are clearly bringing the best out of those open-minded players willing to embrace the change such as Stewart Downing.
While others with supposed tendencies to moan or mess around - like Stephen Warnock - have been ostracised for fear of affecting the main group of players.
At the weekend, another misfit, Stephen Ireland was heard grumbling about having to relocate from Manchester to Birmingham to play for Villa, well surely that is not too much to ask if you are being paid £65,000-a-week.
Houllier has had the balls to introduce unpopular rules and methods since arriving in September for the long-term good of the club.
In return, club officials and Houllier himself accept this season represents a period of transition.
For while results have been slow to improve on the pitch, change off the pitch has been dramatic.
Now mobile phones are banned at the training ground, players must have a home or base locally in the area and training is a lot more regimented.
It has clearly caused problems among the squad but Houllier and Villa are right to demand more from their squad after the club's wage bill rose to a whopping £80m a year.
Under Houllier and McAllister, when the team is playing just on a weekend like at the moment, players will take part in a tough 90-minute training session on a Monday and Tuesday.
These are compromised of a 15-minute warm up to stretch every main muscle in the body before series of drills lasting no-more than six-eight minutes (that's apparently the average attention span of a professional footballer), some possession work and then an eight-a-side game to finish up.
Wednesday would be off for the players to rest before Thursday and Friday are spent predominantly practising set pieces, shape and working on the tactics to combat specific opposition ahead of Saturday's game.
And it certainly seems as if training at Villa now is a lot more constructive than previously.
But of course it is not being translated into results which is Houllier's biggest problem - because contrary to that favourite football chant, I really believe he does know what he is doing.
And if Houllier can get Villa winning again then fans will surely forgive him for his PR bloopers at Anfield or Eastlands.
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/james-nursey/James-Nursey-on-Aston-Villa-Why-fans-should-look-beyond-the-PR-gaffes-to-see-how-Gerard-Houllier-has-changed-club
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Despite his flaws, I like the way he tries to play football.
3 seasons is what he needs, as with any manager (providing we don't get relegated)
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One thing I will say, is the club have quite clearly given James Nursey some kind of super VIP level shmoozing of late, because in the last month or so, he has gone from being worse than Oliver Holt in terms of clapping his hands with glee when he gets stuck in, to loving everything about the club.
A damascene conversion, if ever there was one.
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One thing I will say, is the club have quite clearly given James Nursey some kind of super VIP level shmoozing of late, because in the last month or so, he has gone from being worse than Oliver Holt in terms of clapping his hands with glee when he gets stuck in, to loving everything about the club.
A damascene conversion, if ever there was one.
Our hospitality is very good!
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Despite his flaws, I like the way he tries to play football.
3 seasons is what he needs, as with any manager (providing we don't get relegated)
I agree. I want to see him sort out the mess that the defence is and see where we are because there's so much promise otherwise.
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The formation only works as a 433 when the two wide players play further up the field and float inside. Barcelona look like ther playing 3 up at times but with us the lone striker can look very isolated. Its obvious were trying to play attractive football which i like, hopefully he's got his mind on some more intelligent forwards to implement this.
How come Pires has been told to relocate?
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Let's just get this season out the way and he can continue the rebuilding- the new signings so far have been exciting and the style of play much improved- I see chances being created and once we sort the keeper and defence in the summer we can look at a much better season next year- I'd certainly expect to be competing for a top 6 and Europa place.
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Has Pires left his flat in Highbury then?
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Has Pires left his flat in Highbury then?
He was supposed to have left it 2 weeks ago, but you know how slow he is.
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Pardew was making positive noises about Ireland today as well , so GED is getting the deadwood out one by one, let's hope the Stoke rumour about warnock comes true.
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Just shows how easy it is to buy a journalist or two...
I'm willing M Houllier to get things right but he doesn't help himself does he? I'm just waiting for our next great run of games followed by some bizarre comment to the press or another tactical mystery.
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It works with me every time.
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It started before that with Nursey, it has been very noticeable.
Someone needs to get Oliver Holt up Broad Street and spike his WKD.
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It works with me every time.
A bag of Scratchings and some gloopy Belgian cack normally gets you on side.
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It started before that with Nursey, it has been very noticeable.
Someone needs to get Oliver Holt up Broad Street and spike his WKD.
No, I'd rather smash it upside his fat mug.
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It works with me every time.
A bag of Scratchings and some gloopy Belgian cack normally gets you on side.
To be honest, either/or will do.
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It's just a real shame it takes this kind of schmoozing to keep journalists onside and to make them write nice things about you. Are there any football journalists out there with genuine integrity?
Talking of the Villa rebuilding job, I read an article on a Leeds forum a while back about the job Revie did building Leeds into that great side of the sixties. There were certain parallels with what we have going on now at Villa: the blooding of a swathe of youngsters, a mixed bag of results on the pitch and patience from the boardroom all being factors. It took Revie a good twenty-four months to see genuine progress and the first green shoots of recovery.
In the position we find ourselves in, great patience is required, allied to positivity and a total backing of the Villa staff. if we get this right it will be worth it. The fact that GH doesn't have to lumber himself with a managerial job at this stage in his life must surely say a lot about his character, ambition and vision for Villa? He said the other day (on AVTV) that he had no doubts at all that the Villa side he will build will win trophies. He must see the potential of what we have and it must genuinely fire him up.
As I say, it's a shame he has to butter up a whole load of hacks in order to allow himself a fair crack of the whip - it's an aspect of the modern game that stinks.
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Despite his flaws, I like the way he tries to play football.
3 seasons is what he needs, as with any manager (providing we don't get relegated)
I think so too, I think in the medium to long term he could be very good for the club as he seems to have the right philsophies. I just wish he seemed more able to solve our immediate problems like defending set pieces and giving away stoppage time goals, both of which are driving me up the wall this season, and have stopped us pulling clear of the relegation scrap like we should have.
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The article sounded a bit dubious but the mention of spending Thursdays and Fridays practicing set-pieces gave the game away. GHou must have pictures of Nursery suspended upside down with an orange in his mouth and a feather duster up his arse.
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The difference to Don Revie is that I don't think we needed a 'rebuilding job' after establishing ourselves in the top 6. OK, his philosophy on football and style of play needs time to work it's way through to the players, but he had a good squad to work with already.
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Schmoozing reporters is one thing, getting results on the field another, and we need them fast
I'm sure there were lovely words written about our play at The Reebok, but the stat at the top of the report still read BOLTON 3 - 2 VILLA
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There is a lot of positivity off the field but counts for nothing if we go down. I'm praying we have enough in the tank to stay up and hopefully we'll begin to reap the benefits of GD's work next year. If things haven't improved by Xmas I think he'll struggle to win over the fans.
Does anyone know if Pires drives a Bentley?
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The difference to Don Revie is that I don't think we needed a 'rebuilding job' after establishing ourselves in the top 6. OK, his philosophy on football and style of play needs time to work it's way through to the players, but he had a good squad to work with already.
A good squad - or should I say a good first 11, for Martin O'Neill's philosophy of football. MON and GH are pretty different characters to say the least. I've got to admit I was hoping the transition would be smoother myself. But we are where we are.
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This "playing nice football but the defence is shit" business? Isn't this what people accused Albion of when anybody dared question O'neill's style of football?
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I don't think it's nice football v shit defence. It's nice football v winning football.
At this stage of our 'French revolution' we've had to make that choice. Houllier will be a success if and when we don't have to.
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He inherited a top 6 team less one player. He's been backed with a lot of money in his one transfer window. We're out of both cups and 2 points off relegation with 9 games to go, am I missing something here? He's been a pretty much unmitigated disaster. The comment about him being sure we would win things was a couple of days before he jacked in the FA cup. I don't believe any of this "vision for the future" bollocks. As I recall a Champions League place was always the target when Gregory was boss. Well I couldn't see it happening then and I can't see it happening now.
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He inherited a top 6 team less one player. He's been backed with a lot of money in his one transfer window. We're out of both cups and 2 points off relegation with 9 games to go, am I missing something here? He's been a pretty much unmitigated disaster. The comment about him being sure we would win things was a couple of days before he jacked in the FA cup. I don't believe any of this "vision for the future" bollocks. As I recall a Champions League place was always the target when Gregory was boss. Well I couldn't see it happening then and I can't see it happening now.
Agree completely.
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He inherited a top 6 team less one player. He's been backed with a lot of money in his one transfer window. We're out of both cups and 2 points off relegation with 9 games to go, am I missing something here? He's been a pretty much unmitigated disaster. The comment about him being sure we would win things was a couple of days before he jacked in the FA cup. I don't believe any of this "vision for the future" bollocks. As I recall a Champions League place was always the target when Gregory was boss. Well I couldn't see it happening then and I can't see it happening now.
hard to argue
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He inherited a top 6 team less one player. He's been backed with a lot of money in his one transfer window. We're out of both cups and 2 points off relegation with 9 games to go, am I missing something here? He's been a pretty much unmitigated disaster. The comment about him being sure we would win things was a couple of days before he jacked in the FA cup. I don't believe any of this "vision for the future" bollocks. As I recall a Champions League place was always the target when Gregory was boss. Well I couldn't see it happening then and I can't see it happening now.
Agree completely.
Agree entirely
A panicked and rash appointment
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There is a lot of positivity off the field but counts for nothing if we go down. I'm praying we have enough in the tank to stay up and hopefully we'll begin to reap the benefits of GD's work next year. If things haven't improved by Xmas I think he'll struggle to win over the fans.
Agreed. I am turning a deaf ear to all this 'he is transforming the club' PR until we are safe from relegation. Formations are irrelevant if the '4' cannot defend set pieces.
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The only sentance in the article that means anything is the last one.
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he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes and on the pitch,
we are going in a different footballing direction now, and the results of this can't be seen just yet, but i think its we are moving in the right direction [and i dont mean down the league]
the FA cup was a massive mistake, and one where i canot see any excuses,
but i believe in his football phylosophy so i think we'l be OK in the longterm, for those who dont then i can understand the frustration.
everyone has there own view on what they want out of there football team, and just to say 'a winning team' is not good enough, with our resourses we cannot compete at the very top level yet,
so we have to buy into a plan, that plan is Houlliers at the moment and i have to admit i like it, but its not bringing in results as quick as we would like just yet, and so we have a choice, if Houllier is the right man we need patience, if he's not we need to get rid, obviously i would rather we stuck with him, but there are no gurantees in football either way.
i do understand the anger and frustratrtion by those who dont like Houlliers style, i know we all say, we must support the team no matter what, but i would not bother going if we had someone like Alladyce as the manager, obviously i would always support Villa but i couldnt put up with that sort of football, so i would just moan and complain untill he went
so i cant say to others they must back the manager if they just dont like him or his style.
under MON we finished 6th 3 times in a row, and it got worse after every year for me, untill in the end i was quite glad he went, the league possision was good but the enjoyment level was low, and we even went to wembley twice,
so my answer to the thread quetion would be,
difficult to say Yes right now, but really believe he will
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he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes
While Nero fiddled Rome burned
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he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes
While Nero fiddled Rome burned
Ah, but that's a myth.
Nero is believed to have helped fight the fire.
Mad as a March hare, mind.
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The thing for me is that we'd probably be playing a similar brand of football with similarly shit results if we'd appointed somebody like Zola or Tony Mowbray.
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he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes
While Nero fiddled Rome burned
Ah, but that's a myth.
Nero is believed to have helped fight the fire.
Mad as a March hare, mind.
also had his mother executed. Pleasant chap
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The thing for me is that we'd probably be playing a similar brand of football with similarly shit results if we'd appointed somebody like Zola or Tony Mowbray.
Absolutely. It's hard to imagine anybody could have done much worse than Houllier considering the resources at his disposal.
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he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes
While Nero fiddled Rome burned
yeah but you just cut my quote sentance mid way through, it read 'behind the scenes and on the pitch'
thats bad form my friend
you might not like the way we are playing or the style in which we are trying to play, but i see definite reasons to be cheerfull.
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The results on the field in terms of winning football matches are abysmal
You can try as hard as you like putting a positive spin on that, but right now, we are sat precariously and must beat Wolves which will be far from easy
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The results on the field in terms of winning football matches are abysmal
You can try as hard as you like putting a positive spin on that, but right now, we are sat precariously and must beat Wolves which will be far from easy
i'm not really trying to put a possitive spin on it, theres no reason why i should, thats just the way i feel about Houllier and what he's done so far,
we all differ in our views, its sometimes difficult to argue right and wrong
you dont like Houllier,i do, you think we will go down, i dont, theres nothing wrong with any of that,
you would probably be far happier if we had Alladyce in charge and be sitting with an extra 4 points on the table, i wouldnt
we will just have to wait and see what happens, only time will tell
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For the record, I admired Allardyce's work at Bolton during the Okocha years, but not a fan since.
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I believe that we will struggle in the final games to accrue the minimum 10 points we will need - many of our opponents having got some forward momentum in their last few games - and the Citeh / Bolton debacle has put our psychological state back somewhat.
My 'take' on the Hou is that he is here for the medium / long-term because I suspect RL sees him having a positive impact throughout the club and particularly with regard to bringing on the youngsters at a time when funding is unlikely to be massively forthcoming.
So, for Meanwood, WikiV, PComben, UsualS, Risso and others: what other palatable options were there when Hou arrived? - I cannot be arsed to go back into the posts to see what was being said about other candidates but the ones I remember being hawked around were Sven and Curbishley. I honestly cannot see that any other options would have fared much better (other than perhaps not getting us knocked out of the FA Cup, which I accept was a major error of judgement).
I'm not an apologist for Hou but I do think he was dealt a bad hand and is trying hard to do something with it.
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Man City for a start was definitely not "trying hard". It was abject defeatism.
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Man City for a start was definitely not "trying hard". It was abject defeatism.
I already acknowledge that it was a massive error of judgement.
He took a brave / foolish decision which backfired 'cos we could not take the chances / stem the flow of conceded goals on Saturday. Agreed.
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I really hope we get through these 9 games and do more than enough to stay up if only because I really want to see what Houllier does with the squad with a full summer behind him.
The period from September to December was an unmitigated disaster for the club exacerbated by the worst injury run in living memory. However, I have seen enough since the turn of the year to believe that if we can get through this season, he will have us challenging at the top end of the table again with a better quality of football.
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he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes and on the pitch,
we are going in a different footballing direction now, and the results of this can't be seen just yet, but i think its we are moving in the right direction [and i dont mean down the league]
the FA cup was a massive mistake, and one where i canot see any excuses,
but i believe in his football phylosophy so i think we'l be OK in the longterm, for those who dont then i can understand the frustration.
everyone has there own view on what they want out of there football team, and just to say 'a winning team' is not good enough, with our resourses we cannot compete at the very top level yet,
so we have to buy into a plan, that plan is Houlliers at the moment and i have to admit i like it, but its not bringing in results as quick as we would like just yet, and so we have a choice, if Houllier is the right man we need patience, if he's not we need to get rid, obviously i would rather we stuck with him, but there are no gurantees in football either way.
i do understand the anger and frustratrtion by those who dont like Houlliers style, i know we all say, we must support the team no matter what, but i would not bother going if we had someone like Alladyce as the manager, obviously i would always support Villa but i couldnt put up with that sort of football, so i would just moan and complain untill he went
so i cant say to others they must back the manager if they just dont like him or his style.
under MON we finished 6th 3 times in a row, and it got worse after every year for me, untill in the end i was quite glad he went, the league possision was good but the enjoyment level was low, and we even went to wembley twice,
so my answer to the thread quetion would be,
difficult to say Yes right now, but really believe he will
superb post john e , totally agree with your sentiments.
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He inherited a top 6 team less one player. He's been backed with a lot of money in his one transfer window. We're out of both cups and 2 points off relegation with 9 games to go, am I missing something here? He's been a pretty much unmitigated disaster. The comment about him being sure we would win things was a couple of days before he jacked in the FA cup. I don't believe any of this "vision for the future" bollocks. As I recall a Champions League place was always the target when Gregory was boss. Well I couldn't see it happening then and I can't see it happening now.
Nursey makes a point that there have already been a number of U turns (or blatant lies, if one was being cynical). If he changed his mind within a day or two about giving it a go in the FA Cup and did a complete volte face on a number of other issues, how can we take him at his word re 'vision of the future' and all the rest of it? I'd like to think it's true, but I tend to think it might be just more waffle. Designed in this case in a desperate attempt to justify his existence and save his job.
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Designed in this case in a desperate attempt to justify his existence and save his job.
The only threat to his job is relegation so what he says to journalists is neither here nor there.
I don't get any sense that Randy is likely to be panicked into another search for a manger.
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Designed in this case in a desperate attempt to justify his existence and save his job.
I don't get any sense that Randy is likely to be panicked into another search for a manger.
No chance. He's Jewish isn't he?
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Designed in this case in a desperate attempt to justify his existence and save his job.
The only threat to his job is relegation so what he says to journalists is neither here nor there.
I don't get any sense that Randy is likely to be panicked into another search for a manger.
The religious word filter app is working well I see!
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He can make as many PR gaffes as he wants as long as he gets us playing winning football. On our current showing, it doesn't look likely, but I desperately want to be proved wrong. I'd have Trevor Francis as manager, with Paul 'monumental dick head' Tait as assistant, as long as we were winning games / cups / champions leagues.
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Designed in this case in a desperate attempt to justify his existence and save his job.
The only threat to his job is relegation so what he says to journalists is neither here nor there.
I don't get any sense that Randy is likely to be panicked into another search for a manger.
The religious word filter app is working well I see!
To be fair to the IPad I am just as capable as making a typo on a normal device due to my lack of keyboard skills.
Putting aside personal opinions on the man for a minute, does anyone expect Randy to change manager this summer other than if we are relegated? I just can't see it. His nature seems to be to give people every chance to prove themselves. Next season will clearly have to be a lot better but there are enough extenuating circumstances this time to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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The formation only works as a 433 when the two wide players play further up the field and float inside. Barcelona look like ther playing 3 up at times but with us the lone striker can look very isolated. Its obvious were trying to play attractive football which i like, hopefully he's got his mind on some more intelligent forwards to implement this.
As it happens I watched Barca play Valencia earlier in the season, live, as Tv doesn't really show you the whole picture. In the first half they play 433 and were 1-0 down. 2nd half back to 442 and won 2-1. So even Barca play 2 up top now and again. Villa with messi and inesta on the wing.
How come Pires has been told to relocate?
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Putting aside personal opinions on the man for a minute, does anyone expect Randy to change manager this summer other than if we are relegated?
The ideal scenario for RL in this would be if we stay up comfortably and even have a positive end to the season, perhaps a few resounding home victories. Then it becomes less of an issue.
But I'd like to think/ hope that he's as exasperated as the rest of us with some of the (completely avoidable) PR gaffes that have gone on this year, and any more might just be a bridge too far. It all has an accumulative effect, this drip, drip, drip dent to our image and reputation. Particularly combined with the average> poor results we've endured over the last five months.
It's his investment, lets not forget. Any concern that we might have that GH has taken the 6th best side in the country (as was) to a side narrowly avoiding the drop RL will probably feel tenfold. They'll still back him and say all the right things until the seasons end, only right.
But if the form of the last five months continues for the next two they'll face a genuine dilemma. Do they gamble on a new manager -who will want his own players and to start the thing again from scratch? Or do they stick with GH? It could be that the latter turns out to be the bigger gamble of the two and for that reason they may have little choice but to act.
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I see him as a temporary Manager, there to change the ethos of the footballing side of the club, seek out some talent at a reasonable price and see to it that our young talent is making progress; while offloading most of the dead wood.
As long as we stay up, this season will be a bit of a success.
Sad really isn't it.
Hopefully we can make some serious moves forward when we have a new Manager in place.
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Putting aside personal opinions on the man for a minute, does anyone expect Randy to change manager this summer other than if we are relegated? I just can't see it. His nature seems to be to give people every chance to prove themselves. Next season will clearly have to be a lot better but there are enough extenuating circumstances this time to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I can't, no. Not a chance.
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He certainly has improved my enjoyment of following my beloved Villa this season.
10/10 GH - keep up the good work.
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Designed in this case in a desperate attempt to justify his existence and save his job.
The only threat to his job is relegation so what he says to journalists is neither here nor there.
I don't get any sense that Randy is likely to be panicked into another search for a manger.
The religious word filter app is working well I see!
To be fair to the IPad I am just as capable as making a typo on a normal device due to my lack of keyboard skills.
Putting aside personal opinions on the man for a minute, does anyone expect Randy to change manager this summer other than if we are relegated? I just can't see it. His nature seems to be to give people every chance to prove themselves. Next season will clearly have to be a lot better but there are enough extenuating circumstances this time to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Other than relegation I think you're right, although I don't think many more Man City scenarios will be tolerated. As for his nature, strangely I don't think he's quite as forgiving when it comes to Browns coaches. I also think that the O'Neill situation will have a bearing on future dealings with managers, ie he'll act sooner rather than later.
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Putting aside personal opinions on the man for a minute, does anyone expect Randy to change manager this summer other than if we are relegated? I just can't see it.
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Nope.
We'll never know of course, but I'm not 100% certain Houllier-Hotlips would get the push even if we were relegated.
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Changed us for the better? We're crap and we're two points above the relegation zone. Where would we be if he'd changed us for the worse then?
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he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes
While Nero fiddled Rome burned
he's changed quite a lot at the club, behind the scenes
While Nero fiddled Rome burned
Nero fiddled while Gordon Burns.
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It's not really his fault the situation he came into, like i have said before i like what he his trying to do, i think we will be ok this season and in the long run he will have improved us for the better.
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If we go down then it would be madness to keep him.
If the next 3 games go badly he should be sacked. RL would need to step in an make the move before it would be too late. There is no way this squad of players should go down.
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It started before that with Nursey, it has been very noticeable.
Someone needs to get Oliver Holt up Broad Street and spike his WKD.
From what I understand Nursey had a really low opinion of a former member of staff. Once said former member of staff departed the club he suddenly started being nice even daring to link us with better players and reciting the line sell-to-buy less often.
I just cannot help but think how attitudes on here would be different if, long shot I know, we played a strong team against City and won the game. I don't actually think the mood would be so much against Houllier if that was the case. I know I the stubborn fickle arse that I am I would not be as actively unhappy.
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Houllier has changed things for the better. It seems clear that things went too far under the previous manager: players were barely training, no discipline or unity in the squad and a lot of high-earners never playing.
Much of our problems this seasons have been due to injury problems, players struggling to adjust to a new (and stricter) regime and a new philosophy and (possibly) the fact that the club was dysfunctional in pre-season. Only part of this is Houllier's fault. The statement that he has transformed the sixth best Premier League side to relegation candidates is, thus, very simplistic (ignoring, eg, that Bent was signed six months after Milner was sold, and that other sides strengthened in the summer while we lost our best player).
Much of the current discontent (on here) seems to stem from the team selection against Man City. Before that, the consensus was that the team showed detectable improvement, and that GH deserved credit for that. It is perhaps easier to accept a transitional season if there is a cup run. Now, all that is left of the season is a relegation fight.
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It's not really his fault the situation he came into
What situation was that then?
He's been very unlucky with the outrageous injury list, but other than that, we should'nt be where we are.
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So what did the Romans do for us?
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The manager's job is to get results for the first team, the be all and end all. He's got us knocked out of one cup by Blues who went on to win it and din't try in the other cup and taken a team from 6th to 3 points above relegation. To say this is an improvement suggests insanity or use of illegal substances.
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I don't expect Randy to get rid if we stop up afterall it took him a while to get the bloke. Its possible Houllier may decide he doesn't want the job anymore.
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The manager's job is to get results for the first team, the be all and end all.
How do you know what brief RL has given him?
I agree that you'd expect that to be the simple brief but we do not know for sure exactly what situation he inherited at the club and - with his broad football experience - the Chairman may well have given a much more multi-faceted set of objectives.
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taken a team from 6th to 3 points above relegation
We were 8th (and 3 points above relegation) when GH arrived.
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The thing for me is that we'd probably be playing a similar brand of football with similarly shit results if we'd appointed somebody like Zola or Tony Mowbray.
with the significant difference being that Houllier has a long track record of winning stuff at different clubs, while the other two have a track record of flattering to deceive.
This season might very well have gone better, and I'm sure that aside from all of the injuries and non-controllable issues, he'd like to have one or two decisions and actions back.
This was never going to be a one season project and barring disaster he isn't going anywhere. Despite this ultimately being a very disappoiting season, there are still a lot of good things happening. It is now a case of capitalizing on those things between now and the end of the season and into the summer. I firmly believe that this will be one of the most dramatic and interesting transfer windows and our squad will look very different in August to what it is today.
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taken a team from 6th to 3 points above relegation
We were 8th (and 3 points above relegation) when GH arrived.
But we've finished 6th for the past 3 seasons so its fair to assume we are a "6th" team.
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The manager's job is to get results for the first team, the be all and end all.
How do you know what brief RL has given him?
I agree that you'd expect that to be the simple brief but we do not know for sure exactly what situation he inherited at the club and - with his broad football experience - the Chairman may well have given a much more multi-faceted set of objectives.
I'm guessing but if suprised if he's told him to make the under 12s shit hot and fuck the rest of it.
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From a purely financial perspective Randy would not give a flying fck about the FA cup. The premiership is all that counts because that's where the money is, any danger of not surviving the drop would have him taking any steps needed to ensure survival. He certainly would not have given the money for Bent to a manager he no longer trusted, i think Houllier is with us for at least three years and will oversee a total overhaul of the football department. Retrospective is a wonderful thing but when MON became Villa manager i like most thought he was perfect for us, in hindsight i think he was caught in a time warp and was a disaster it will take us a while to recover from.
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taken a team from 6th to 3 points above relegation
We were 8th (and 3 points above relegation) when GH arrived.
But we've finished 6th for the past 3 seasons so its fair to assume we are a "6th" team.
Except that we in the past 3 season invested significantly in players and had continuity (same manager, same coaches) whereas we, this season, had no investment except Ireland (that practically equals no investment), sold Milner and a summer of upheaval.
Just because something happens three times in a row doesn't make it a law.
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Not a rule but perhaps a benchmark.
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This time last year we had been to a final and were progessing well in another competition whilst maintaining a good position in the League.
Now we have lost to Small Heath in a cup tie, surrendered our interest in another cup whilst scraping around just above the dead wood.
Some fecking progress that !!
Oh apparantly we now play more attractive football... thats all that matters then.
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He inherited a top 6 team less one player. He's been backed with a lot of money in his one transfer window. We're out of both cups and 2 points off relegation with 9 games to go, am I missing something here? He's been a pretty much unmitigated disaster. The comment about him being sure we would win things was a couple of days before he jacked in the FA cup. I don't believe any of this "vision for the future" bollocks. As I recall a Champions League place was always the target when Gregory was boss. Well I couldn't see it happening then and I can't see it happening now.
Agree completely.
Agree entirely
Agree enormously.
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So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It started before that with Nursey, it has been very noticeable.
Someone needs to get Oliver Holt up Broad Street and spike his WKD.
From what I understand Nursey had a really low opinion of a former member of staff.
Spill the beans then!
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How many times has he been able to play what would be considered his 1st team since he has been here??
We wont go down..End of!!! Reason, we score goals. The 3 who go down will be those who struggle to score.
If we were playing poor and not creating, id be worried, but that is not the case. If we play like we did against Blackburn in our remaining games, we will be top 10.
If people want to judge him purely on results and league position then fine, thats there opinion, and one i cant agree with.
Look at his dealings in January, that shows the type of player we are targetting, and im sure more of the same will follow in the summer.
He has been unlucky with the amount of injuries he has had to contend with, but on the plus side, the younger players who had to step up, will be better for it longterm.
Going on about 3 top 6 finishes under mon is fine, but does anyone think longterm he would have taken us further?
I would argue that with the amount of money he had to spend, top 6 was the minimum requirement, and apart from last season, we didnt have a cup run in the previous 3 seasons! With better signings, better management could we not have made top 4.
I for one look forward to a good end to the season, an exciting summer window, and another top 6 challenge next season.
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there is some confusion regarding the state we were left in by MON and the performance of GH.
There is no way despite the situation he inherited that we should be in such a precarious position. He has displayed on numerous occaisions a total disregard for our club and its supporters. Despite some of the good things we have seen in terms of a more progressive approach to the game, he has failed to get results, he has failed to unify the squad and he has failed to gain the trust of a large proportion of the supporter base. He has failed.
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One thing I will say, is the club have quite clearly given James Nursey some kind of super VIP level shmoozing of late, because in the last month or so, he has gone from being worse than Oliver Holt in terms of clapping his hands with glee when he gets stuck in, to loving everything about the club.
A damascene conversion, if ever there was one.
Oliver Holt wrote a similar article in last Mondays Times , explaining in more complimentary terms his understanding of Houlier,s recent tactics and the reasons behind them .............Godzvilla!
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He's certainly a manager that polarises opinion....even on an individual basis: I can't quite decide whether he's a PR disaster that, come match day, doesn't have a clue or if he's working his arse off to rebuild the old and broken remains of Chez Mon into something modern and majestic.
I suspect it's a little from column A and a little from column B. He'll be happy to do nothing other than stay in the premiership this season and focus on new training methods, new tactics, new players...a whole new ethos. All of which is fantastic except I'm sure he wasn't expecting this team to be brushing so closely against the bosom of relegation.
For me, it'll be either the most disasterous appointment in modern times or something we'll look back on in a few years and realise that he has built an absolutely brilliant new foundation that will stand the club (and any new manager that takes over) in good stead for many a year.
Flip a coin.
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
With the investment at city and spurs making top 4, the best we could have hoped for would have been 6th...However had he got those 2 in, we wouldnt have got Bent, and with mcgeady, where would that have left Albrighton.
Imo this season is short term pain for long term gain. How its panned out, with all the injuries we had, we would have struggled under mon this season anyway.
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Assuming we scrape by and stay up, I would still wager, ST sales, commercial sales etc will be well down (circa 15%) if GH stays.
RL / PF will need to factor that into any decision making process
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
We'd done it three times in a row so it's possible but the club refusing to spend any money until players were sold would have made it difficult whoever was in charge.
It does make me laugh how tabloid rumours are held up as fact on here.
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I'm pretty sure the summer we bought Harewood, Knight and NRC nobody thought we'd finish 6th, but we did. We wouldn't have had Bent? Fair enough, but we would have had Gabby playing up top and not of the wing, with keane behind him giving us something a little different, plus Ash on the wing where he's best. It's easy to say what we would/wouldn't have done, but MON's track record would suggest if we didn;t we'd have been pretty close!!
As for Houllier, I'm on record as saying I'm not a fan thus far, but next season is the time to judge when all the excuses (MON's team, injuries, no pre-season, needs time to change things) no longer hold water. In many respects I like what's he's doing:-
1. Transfer dealings
2. Blooding the excellent kids
3. Improved style of play
But to me all those things are only geared towards one sole purpose - to win football matches. And in that he's failed miserably. So next season I don't want to hear the ifs and the buts and be told how training is now much more professional. I want to see Aston Villa win more football matches!!
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
We'd done it three times in a row so it's possible but the club refusing to spend any money until players were sold would have made it difficult whoever was in charge.
It does make me laugh how tabloid rumours are held up as fact on here.
Chris.
I got the info about McGeady and Keane from a journo very close to the club.
I know it makes O'Neill look bad, but it's the truth.
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I don't think it makes him look bad. A lot of us cringed at the idea of paying £12m for Milner and look how that worked out.
With MON we didnt agree with the signings, but (for the most part) couldn't argue with the results. With Gezza it's the other way around and I know which I prefer!!
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
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Houllier's 'Barcelona' style team formation is great in theory. The team has plenty of possesion and plays lots of nice passes around the middle of the pitch. Unfortunately, we can't score for shit and can't keep defenders fit. Plus, we keep loaning players out when we might need them.
Players like Makoun and Delph will be important in the run in and next season beacuse I think they could link up well with the wide palyers and Darren Bent. Houllier badly needs to address the defensive problems and despite him dropping a bollock by letting the world know about it, I agree with him.
I don't like Houllier. Even worse, I don't rate him. I would gladly love to be wrong about him and hope he can make us competitive next season. We have to give him that opportunity.
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
He might well have been interested but it's now treated as though we did sign him and he was shit.
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
He might well have been interested but it's now treated as though we did sign him and he was shit.
I'm sure that in one of the other dimensions/universes, we're still managed by O'Neill, and are playing a midfield of McGeady, Downing, Young and Albrighton. Mind you, we are 8th in the table, although March is turning out to not be a very good month.
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
He might well have been interested but it's now treated as though we did sign him and he was shit.
Well, we didn't sign him, but he's certainly shit.
I didn't see any other clubs of note show an interest in him.
Had we have signed him, he may well have given O'Neill a dirty look in training, then whoosh, £15m in transfer fee and wages down the khazi.
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From official site: "Gerard Houllier has hailed Villa's brilliant team bonding break a massive success, insisting the overnight hotel stay has refreshed the players as they look to end the season on a high. 'I know the previous manager took the players to Dubai, but I thought this was the right choice as most of the players will be on international duty after the Wolverhampton game. I thought one night and two days was fine.' " Those budget cuts really are biting!
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Anyone know where they went ? Travelodge Perry Barr ?
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Anyone know where they went ? Travelodge Perry Barr ?
The Etap on Bristol Road
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I think had mon been here we would have finished around 10th this season , i think he knew hed probably got as much out of them as he could and would need to spend big to retain top 6 status, we may still finish 10 th under houllier yet , but i have no doubt that the team mon built had peaked and without milner we would not have finished top 6.
Equally i dont necessarily agree that he left a poor team behind but the fact that his style of play is so different to houlliers style means it would always be a transition season , however i didnt expect to flirt with relegation , but the signs are there that the football is improving and with that will come results sooner rather than later.
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
He might well have been interested but it's now treated as though we did sign him and he was shit.
Well, we didn't sign him, but he's certainly shit.
I didn't see any other clubs of note show an interest in him.
Had we have signed him, he may well have given O'Neill a dirty look in training, then whoosh, £15m in transfer fee and wages down the khazi.
If funds were available, how do you think O'Neill would react if Faulkner told him that he couldn't spend them on the player of his choice?
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For me, it'll be either the most disasterous appointment in modern times or something we'll look back on in a few years and realise that he has built an absolutely brilliant new foundation that will stand the club (and any new manager that takes over) in good stead for many a year.
Flip a coin.
Good insight but the relegation issue rather than a coin will decide it. If we stay up I think his long term vision will start to unfold and we will go from strength to strength. If we go down the whole thing potentially unravels, we lose our better players, and we have to start building from scratch. The question then is whether people would accept GH as the man to bring us back up and continue with his vision. I somehow doubt many will. GH may well become the victim of paying too much attention to the long term and not enough to short term pragmatism.
Would O'Neill have finished 6th? Probably not with that injury list, but I think we'd certainly be in the top 8.
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I don't think it makes him look bad. A lot of us cringed at the idea of paying £12m for Milner and look how that worked out.
With MON we didnt agree with the signings, but (for the most part) couldn't argue with the results. With Gezza it's the other way around and I know which I prefer!!
Really? You don't like Kyle Walker, Darren Bent or Jean Mckoun? Seem to be working out OK to me. Bradley did have the one bad game but still a bit early to judge.
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Houlliers biggest mistake may have been McAllister. 3rd or 4th choice and not necessarily up to the job
Will Houllier be able to see this and if so will he have the balls to do something ?
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To draw a parallel with Spurs, I think the success they're enjoying now all started from apointing Jol. Many of the players he brought to the club are still there, even if some had to be re-signed by Redknapp. They got it wrong with Ramos, but bit the bullet early and 'arry finished the job off and they're in the last 8 of the CL.
Now, if we are following a similar pattern, then is Houllier our Jol, our Ramos, or our Redknapp?
If he's our Ramos, which if your basing things solely on results would seem to be the case thus far, then that means Martin was our Jol, who's started a process of building the club towards success, which many on here would argue with. I can't see him being the Redknapp as he's changing too many things the last manager did, so rather than add the finishing touches he's starting from scratch.
So that leaves me to thinking he's our Jol. That the things he's doing will be the foundation for the club to go on to great things in the nearish future. But it'll be another manager that actually gets us there!
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I'm not sure why McAllister gets the stick he does from some on here. How can we judge what he puts in to the role? 90% of his work revolves around the training pitch and the build-up to the weekend's game.
As for McGeady... if we'd have signed him I imagine he'd have played the Maloney role of a few seasons ago; started one game in four, spent most of his time sitting on the bench, replacing Young or Downing with 20 mins to go - coming on in a double substitution with Carew for Heskey. Albrighton, denied any action at all other than the odd Europa League outing, would have left to join another PL club for £2m, quietly developing into an England star in the process.
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So that leaves me to thinking he's our Jol
You might be right - Spurs were 3rd from bottom when they finally sacked Jol
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not3bad said:-
Really? You don't like Kyle Walker, Darren Bent or Jean Mckoun? Seem to be working out OK to me. Bradley did have the one bad game but still a bit early to judge.
You misunderstand me. I do like those players, better then many MON signings, but we've still gotten stinking results with them.
What I was saying that I'd rather a manager buy players I don't like and get good results anyway than buy players I do like and us lose all the time.
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McAllister . How can we judge what he puts in to the role? 90% of his work revolves around the training pitch and the build-up to the weekend's game.
He has to be judged on results as does Le Gaffeur
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So that leaves me to thinking he's our Jol
You might be right - Spurs were 3rd from bottom when they finally sacked Jol
I've thought a few times this season that it is not totally unlike the season Spurs flirted with relegation, 2007-8.
Looking at statto.com, this week in 2008, Spurs were 11th on 32 points.
Not that dissimilar to us now, the difference this season is that the bottom three clubs aren't as bad as they were at this point in 07-08 - back then, the 18th, 19th and 20th placed club had 25, 20 and 10 points. Currently they have 31, 29 and 27.
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McAllister . How can we judge what he puts in to the role? 90% of his work revolves around the training pitch and the build-up to the weekend's game.
He has to be judged on results as does Le Gaffeur
Not coaching ability? Not rapport with the players? Not the way he might handle and encourage the younger players? Not any role he may play in identifying transfer targets and supporting the manager?
Just results, right? Cowans may as well go too, then.
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I'm not sure why McAllister gets the stick he does from some on here. How can we judge what he puts in to the role? 90% of his work revolves around the training pitch and the build-up to the weekend's game.
Nobody's going to blame Sid are they?
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I wonder if Sid might regret stepping up a position or two? In my opinion, his elevation looked to be a bit of a sop to the fans who on the whole weren't overly enthusiastic about Houllier.
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No, which is why I said what I said above! I don't blame Sid either, so I'm not sure why McAllister's been marked out for this kind of treatment, almost since the day he started. Whatever he looks like he's doing or not doing on matchday - too much shouting, not enough shouting - it's not an accurate reflection of the influence or impact he may be having during the rest of the week.
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I'm not sure why McAllister gets the stick he does from some on here. How can we judge what he puts in to the role? 90% of his work revolves around the training pitch and the build-up to the weekend's game.
Nobody's going to blame Sid are they?
He may have to take one for the team too
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Crikey, it's a cull. KMac?
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I'm not sure why McAllister gets the stick he does from some on here. How can we judge what he puts in to the role? 90% of his work revolves around the training pitch and the build-up to the weekend's game.
Nobody's going to blame Sid are they?
He may have to take one for the team too
maybe to be 'demoted' back down, or back through, the ranks. But in no way should Sid and being sacked by Villa ever find its way into the same sentence.
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What pisses me of about mcAllister is that he sits on the bench and shows no emotion, rarely getting up and tbh he looks like he would rather be somewhere else.
Best line was from the WM commentary against man City:
"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
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He's certainly a manager that polarises opinion....even on an individual basis: I can't quite decide whether he's a PR disaster that, come match day, doesn't have a clue or if he's working his arse off to rebuild the old and broken remains of Chez Mon into something modern and majestic.
I suspect it's a little from column A and a little from column B. He'll be happy to do nothing other than stay in the premiership this season and focus on new training methods, new tactics, new players...a whole new ethos. All of which is fantastic except I'm sure he wasn't expecting this team to be brushing so closely against the bosom of relegation.
For me, it'll be either the most disasterous appointment in modern times or something we'll look back on in a few years and realise that he has built an absolutely brilliant new foundation that will stand the club (and any new manager that takes over) in good stead for many a year.
Flip a coin.
An excellent summation. Agree 100%
So the gist of the article is that a nice man treated James Nursey to nice food and nice drink and he's all of a sudden saying nice things about him?
It started before that with Nursey, it has been very noticeable.
Someone needs to get Oliver Holt up Broad Street and spike his WKD.
From what I understand Nursey had a really low opinion of a former member of staff.
Spill the beans then!
O'Neill. Quite a few journalists outside of a chosen couple never really took to him.
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O'Neill also sued the Mirror.
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
He might well have been interested but it's now treated as though we did sign him and he was shit.
Well, we didn't sign him, but he's certainly shit.
I didn't see any other clubs of note show an interest in him.
Had we have signed him, he may well have given O'Neill a dirty look in training, then whoosh, £15m in transfer fee and wages down the khazi.
If funds were available, how do you think O'Neill would react if Faulkner told him that he couldn't spend them on the player of his choice?
The poor choice of players never came into it.
He was questioned about the high earners he'd signed and then tossed aside, he was also asked to look at the wage bill.
From what I was told, McGeady and Keane were acceptable, as long as he took steps to reduce said wage bill.
ALL of the Milner proceeds were available to him.
He then went into Man baby mode and we all know the rest.
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What pisses me of about mcAllister is that he sits on the bench and shows no emotion, rarely getting up and tbh he looks like he would rather be somewhere else.
Best line was from the WM commentary against man City:
"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
I've never bought into this 'The Manager and coaches should be jumping around on the touch line like prawns on a hot plate.'
I don't think it proves a thing.
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Can I just check on the current state of the "all journalists are shit and lazy and hate Villa" conspiracy?
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I've never bought into this 'The Manager and coaches should be jumping around on the touch line like prawns on a hot plate.'
I don't think it proves a thing.
However, when things aren't going well it becomes a useful hammer to hit them over the head with.
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What pisses me of about mcAllister is that he sits on the bench and shows no emotion, rarely getting up and tbh he looks like he would rather be somewhere else.
Best line was from the WM commentary against man City:
"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
I've never bought into this 'The Manager and coaches should be jumping around on the touch line like prawns on a hot plate.'
I don't think it proves a thing.
I certainly don't recall Sir Graham or Ron Saunders sliding on both knees when we scored, or going completely off their heads with rage during games if players made errors. My memory isn't what it once was, but I think both of those manager's did quite well for us.
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
He might well have been interested but it's now treated as though we did sign him and he was shit.
Well, we didn't sign him, but he's certainly shit.
I didn't see any other clubs of note show an interest in him.
Had we have signed him, he may well have given O'Neill a dirty look in training, then whoosh, £15m in transfer fee and wages down the khazi.
If funds were available, how do you think O'Neill would react if Faulkner told him that he couldn't spend them on the player of his choice?
The poor choice of players never came into it.
He was questioned about the high earners he'd signed and then tossed aside, he was also asked to look at the wage bill.
From what I was told, McGeady and Keane were acceptable, as long as he took steps to reduce said wage bill.
ALL of the Milner proceeds were available to him.
He then went into Man baby mode and we all know the rest.
Didn't Faulkner take over responsibility for conducting transfers when he became CEO?
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It surprises me that anybody doubts that O'Neill would have been after McGeady. If ever there was a player that ticked all the O'Neill boxes, that was one.
He might well have been interested but it's now treated as though we did sign him and he was shit.
Well, we didn't sign him, but he's certainly shit.
I didn't see any other clubs of note show an interest in him.
Had we have signed him, he may well have given O'Neill a dirty look in training, then whoosh, £15m in transfer fee and wages down the khazi.
If funds were available, how do you think O'Neill would react if Faulkner told him that he couldn't spend them on the player of his choice?
The poor choice of players never came into it.
He was questioned about the high earners he'd signed and then tossed aside, he was also asked to look at the wage bill.
From what I was told, McGeady and Keane were acceptable, as long as he took steps to reduce said wage bill.
ALL of the Milner proceeds were available to him.
He then went into Man baby mode and we all know the rest.
Didn't Faulkner take over responsibility for conducting transfers when he became CEO?
And your point is?
O'Neil wasn't refused a potential player by anybody at the club.
The trouble started when he was questioned about fringe players and ASKED to look at the wage bill.
It was the first time in his tenure at the club that he been challenged on anything.
His ego just couldn't take it.
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Can I just check on the current state of the "all journalists are shit and lazy and hate Villa" conspiracy?
That depends on whether they've been invited for dinner chez Gerard ou not.
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...
And your point is?
O'Neil wasn't refused a potential player by anybody at the club.
The trouble started when he was questioned about fringe players and ASKED to look at the wage bill.
It was the first time in his tenure at the club that he been challenged on anything.
His ego just couldn't take it.
At the start of the summer he'd agreed with Lerner and Faulkner which players should be sold (Davies, L young, Beye, NRC, Sidwell, Shorey) and had apparently subsequently agreed to the sale of Milner.
My point is that I don't understand what more O'Neill could do to reduce wages when Faulkner was responsible for transfers.
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What pisses me of about mcAllister is that he sits on the bench and shows no emotion, rarely getting up and tbh he looks like he would rather be somewhere else.
Best line was from the WM commentary against man City:
"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
Exactly, a bit of passion would be nice. McAllister coaching / managing record also is a concern - he's been shite everywhere
Le Gaffeur tried to show some passion after the Bolton debacle but to me it seemed a bit contrived
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At the start of the summer he'd agreed with Lerner and Faulkner which players should be sold (Davies, L young, Beye, NRC, Sidwell, Shorey)
Had he?
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At the start of the summer he'd agreed with Lerner and Faulkner which players should be sold (Davies, L young, Beye, NRC, Sidwell, Shorey)
Had he?
According to the General, yes he had. His criticism was that MON then changed, which I took to mean he got impatient waiting for the club to sell some players and wanted to make his signings as the season was about to start.
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So Paul Faulkner now owns, runs and makes every decision at the club? Or is it just that he is an easier target?
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At the start of the summer he'd agreed with Lerner and Faulkner which players should be sold (Davies, L young, Beye, NRC, Sidwell, Shorey)
Had he?
According to the General, yes he had. His criticism was that MON then changed, which I took to mean he got impatient waiting for the club to sell some players and wanted to make his signings as the season was about to start.
because he was well known for getting his business done early.
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At the start of the summer he'd agreed with Lerner and Faulkner which players should be sold (Davies, L young, Beye, NRC, Sidwell, Shorey)
Had he?
According to the General, yes he had. His criticism was that MON then changed, which I took to mean he got impatient waiting for the club to sell some players and wanted to make his signings as the season was about to start.
So the General has actually said those players were for sale?
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MON stuck a few on the list early, either rejected bids or couldn't find buyers for most because of their wages, and had a hissy fit when he couldn't spend the Milner money on Keane and McGeady before they went.
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Quiet right
He inherited a top 6 team less one player. He's been backed with a lot of money in his one transfer window. We're out of both cups and 2 points off relegation with 9 games to go, am I missing something here? He's been a pretty much unmitigated disaster. The comment about him being sure we would win things was a couple of days before he jacked in the FA cup. I don't believe any of this "vision for the future" bollocks. As I recall a Champions League place was always the target when Gregory was boss. Well I couldn't see it happening then and I can't see it happening now.
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Passion giving direction, if something is wrong like a player not picking up etc just sitting there like a plank isn't going to get the message across, perhap this is why GMac has been a disastar in every managerial job he's had
What pisses me of about mcAllister is that he sits on the bench and shows no emotion, rarely getting up and tbh he looks like he would rather be somewhere else.
Best line was from the WM commentary against man City:
"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
I've never bought into this 'The Manager and coaches should be jumping around on the touch line like prawns on a hot plate.'
I don't think it proves a thing.
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
We'd done it three times in a row so it's possible but the club refusing to spend any money until players were sold would have made it difficult whoever was in charge.
It does make me laugh how tabloid rumours are held up as fact on here.
How the fuck did you get to "fact" from "rumoured aquisitions"?
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What pisses me of about mcAllister is that he sits on the bench and shows no emotion, rarely getting up and tbh he looks like he would rather be somewhere else.
Best line was from the WM commentary against man City:
"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
You're right. We should get Freddie Starr in instead.
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From official site: "Gerard Houllier has hailed Villa's brilliant team bonding break a massive success, insisting the overnight hotel stay has refreshed the players as they look to end the season on a high. 'I know the previous manager took the players to Dubai, but I thought this was the right choice as most of the players will be on international duty after the Wolverhampton game. I thought one night and two days was fine.' " Those budget cuts really are biting!
Isn't it interesting. GH took the trouble to say that at a press conference, knowing that Collins & Dunne had a drunken fight.
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Drunken fight ? The report I read was Collins and dunne had a heated row with the coaching staff while houllier and Gary mac were away at the spurs game- hardly Collins and dunne having a drunken fight is it?
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Obviously the useless, incompetent, lazy, anti-Villa media have suddenly become purveyors of truth and justice.
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"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
Houllier has had to undergo emergency heart surgery in the past; he may well have chosen to conduct himself in a more sedate manner for this reason. I don't think it would be in anyone's interest for him to make a show of his passion and desire to win.* Do you really care about all the histrionic bollocks we see in the "technical area"?
*He could do that via his team selections and press interviews, couldn't he?
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
We'd done it three times in a row so it's possible but the club refusing to spend any money until players were sold would have made it difficult whoever was in charge.
It does make me laugh how tabloid rumours are held up as fact on here.
How the fuck did you get to "fact" from "rumoured aquisitions"?
You used the rumours as a reason that we couldn't finish sixth.
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So Paul Faulkner now owns, runs and makes every decision at the club? Or is it just that he is an easier target?
It is far simpler than that. Paul Faulkner is at fault for everything.
In fact, Martin didn't actually walk out, he was driven out by Faulkner.
In fact, that's why we haven't heard anything from Martin - he's dead, Faulkner's got him locked in his basement.
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
We'd done it three times in a row so it's possible but the club refusing to spend any money until players were sold would have made it difficult whoever was in charge.
It does make me laugh how tabloid rumours are held up as fact on here.
How the fuck did you get to "fact" from "rumoured aquisitions"?
You used the rumours as a reason that we couldn't finish sixth.
No Chris, try reading up to the first question mark before you make a condescending generalisation.
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We may have finished 6th last year, but does anyone seriously think this squad would have achieved it again? With the rumoured aquisitions of Keane and McGeady?
I don't, and I don't think the prick in charge did, so he sat on his hands all summer and fucked off when it was too late.
We'd done it three times in a row so it's possible but the club refusing to spend any money until players were sold would have made it difficult whoever was in charge.
It does make me laugh how tabloid rumours are held up as fact on here.
How the fuck did you get to "fact" from "rumoured aquisitions"?
You used the rumours as a reason that we couldn't finish sixth.
No Chris, try reading up to the first question mark before you make a condescending generalisation.
I wasn't intending to be condescending but to me it read like you were trying to use them to support your argument. If you weren't then my aologies for the misunderstanding.
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I wasn't intending to be condescending but to me it read like you were trying to use them to support your argument. If you weren't then my aologies for the misunderstanding.
No problem Chris.
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What pisses me of about mcAllister is that he sits on the bench and shows no emotion, rarely getting up and tbh he looks like he would rather be somewhere else.
Best line was from the WM commentary against man City:
"The only reason I know that Houllier & McAllister are not waxwork dummies is because Houllier just blinked"
Exactly, a bit of passion would be nice. McAllister coaching / managing record also is a concern - he's been shite everywhere
Le Gaffeur tried to show some passion after the Bolton debacle but to me it seemed a bit contrived
I was never a fan a the way MON acted on the touchline but the point Im making is that Houllier for the most part gives no instruction from the bench.
case in point Sunderland at home, terrible second half performance but the first thing u see of GH is on 87 minutes when he makes a pointless substitution.
Anyway lets just all carry on thinking everything is tickety boo and GH just needs to be given time
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You shouldn't need instruction from the bench.
It's an absolute myth, most of these managers do it for the cameras, or because their nerves get the better of them.
Don't let me distract you from your handwringing though.
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You shouldn't need instruction from the bench.
It's an absolute myth, most of these managers do it for the cameras, or because their nerves get the better of them.
Don't let me distract you from your handwringing though.
Lee is correct.
The players can't hear them anyway.
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It's common knowledge that players check the dugout constantly in case the manager has left his seat to hold 4 fingers in the air or slowly swing his arm in a wave motion towards the opposition goal.
Also the assistant spends vital time in the "technical area" drawing circles on a pitch with arrows pointing in a direction and words like "score goals" and "dont let goals in". Then shows this to players as they leave the bench, just in case they've forgotten.
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There must be a reason why we have thrown away so many points from a winning position this season.
I suspect it is because the opposing managers make effective tactical changes during the game and we're not responding. Isn't that what we're talking about here?
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We have been conceding late goals for a few seasons now villadawg, it's not just this season, it was well known o neills team tired in the last 20 mins .
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We have been conceding late goals for a few seasons now villadawg, it's not just this season, it was well known o neills team tired in the last 20 mins .
You cannnot compare the shambles of us defensively this season with the side that was one of the best in the league last season. That's just a ridiculous comment. It wasn't "well known", that was one comment from Terry that didn't reflect the reality.
We are piss poor at defending set pieces and have been for the majority of the season, last season it was not an issue.
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Agree, we threw away too many late goals under MON too, costing us probably that elusive top 4 finish we should have had
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We have been conceding late goals for a few seasons now villadawg, it's not just this season, it was well known o neills team tired in the last 20 mins .
You cannnot compare the shambles of us defensively this season with the side that was one of the best in the league last season. That's just a ridiculous comment. It wasn't "well known", that was one comment from Terry that didn't reflect the reality.
We are piss poor at defending set pieces and have been for the majority of the season, last season it was not an issue.
Agreed, the defence was fine last season. We picked up a lot of points away from home because of it. Dunne was even named in the PFA team of the season. This season it has'nt been half as good.
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Agree, we threw away too many late goals under MON too, costing us probably that elusive top 4 finish we should have had
I remember leaving the ground against Stoke in, when was it, March of 2008/09? We had not won after taking the lead for the first time that season, in fact, at the time we were the best team in the league at holding onto a winning position. Yet walking out from the ground all the snippets of conversation I could hear were about how 'we always throw away leads'. Myth and madness.
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I think it's for the better. The team now plays with a freedom that it did not display under Martin O'Niell. As much as I respect and admired O'Niell, his teams are dour and set up not to lose rather than to entertain. Too many goals came from the centre backs off set pieces and not enough from the skills and talents of players like Ashley Young. His move inside has made him not only a better player but probably a more valuable commodity and I fear we shall lose him to Manchester United as the replacement for Ryan Giggs.
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Houllier certainly lacks man management skills, which hasn't been helped by the attitude of some of his players.
Ultimately though the manager is responsible for organising and motivating his team to produce a good performance and get a result, he hasn't done either very successfully so far.
I'm not convinced he will ever be the greatest motivator, but once he has had the time to build his own team,(next season) i would hope we see a better organised team.
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Our defence has been on a downward spiral since Feb of last year. If I worked it out right, since we drew 0-0 at Spurs on the 6th Feb we've only managed 9 clean sheets in 56 games.
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but once he has had the time to build his own team,(next season) i would hope we see a better organised team.
Blimey, cut and paste that one for the GH happy Clappy brigade
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but once he has had the time to build his own team,(next season) i would hope we see a better organised team.
Blimey, cut and paste that one for the GH happy Clappy brigade
Edit.
Do you really need to start up with the pathetically, childish labels for others yet again?
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Houllier certainly lacks man management skills, which hasn't been helped by the attitude of some of his players.
Ultimately though the manager is responsible for organising and motivating his team to produce a good performance and get a result, he hasn't done either very successfully so far.
I'm not convinced he will ever be the greatest motivator, but once he has had the time to build his own team,(next season) i would hope we see a better organised team.
I don't buy into this "he is a bad man manager" stuff. He is a very professional manager who expects the same from his players. He came in and laid down the law regarding fitness and conduct at our club. This is the bare minimum I, as a fan, would expect when we are paying these player millions of pounds a year. Bizarelly some of our "professional footballers" didn't believe in this and have kicked up a fuss. If they don't want to work hard foir thewir salaries then they can bugger off. Unfortunately it wont be untill the summer that the bad eggs have been go rid of and if GED produce a similar transfer window to January in the summer, then I am convinced good things lie in wait.
He is working on our players individually to develop the technical side of their games. As a result, in the last two months I have seen a marked improvement in the attacking football that we play. It is free flowing and far more entertaining to watch than anything we produced under MON. It takes time and a lot of bravery to try and completly change the footballing philosphy of a football club. Yes we have been sloppy form set pieces and yes once we go ahead, I never actually believe we will see out the game, but I honestly believe these are temporary problems. I am fully behind GED and I fully expect him to resolve our defensive problems over the summer.
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They say you don't know what you've got until it's gone. All MONs little foibles (that stopped us getting into the top 4) seem trivial compared to the gigantic mess GH has taken into. I know it's been said but to allow yourself to believe that GH is building something here is just plain delusion.
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They say you don't know what you've got until it's gone. All MONs little foibles (that stopped us getting into the top 4) seem trivial compared to the gigantic mess GH has taken into. I know it's been said but to allow yourself to believe that GH is building something here is just plain delusion.
Why is it?
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They say you don't know what you've got until it's gone. All MONs little foibles (that stopped us getting into the top 4) seem trivial compared to the gigantic mess GH has taken into. I know it's been said but to allow yourself to believe that GH is building something here is just plain delusion.
I disagree, I was a big supporter of the job MON was doing but I can see clear signs that GH could be very good for us.
We have one glaring deficiency in the way we deal with set pieces but our general play has been improving steadily. In the last two games we have scored 6 but could easily have doubled that with the number of chances we created. If we address the defensive issue over the summer then there are plenty of reasons for optimism next season.
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The trouble we'll have is that I think we're in for a lot of players coming and going in the summer, which will obviously lead to more upheaval. It's all very well saying that he'll sort the defence out, but if say Ashley Young and Gabby move on, then he'll have to sort out the forward as well.
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Change that to Defence + Keeper and I'd largely agree.
We just need to survive and see this season out
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The trouble we'll have is that I think we're in for a lot of players coming and going in the summer, which will obviously lead to more upheaval. It's all very well saying that he'll sort the defence out, but if say Ashley Young and Gabby move on, then he'll have to sort out the forward as well.
Yes, agreed if we have major upheavals then it might be one step forward two steps back.
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He overhauled the squad at Liverpool with great success, he will do the same here IMO.
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They say you don't know what you've got until it's gone. All MONs little foibles (that stopped us getting into the top 4) seem trivial compared to the gigantic mess GH has taken into. I know it's been said but to allow yourself to believe that GH is building something here is just plain delusion.
I disagree, I was a big supporter of the job MON was doing but I can see clear signs that GH could be very good for us.
We have one glaring deficiency in the way we deal with set pieces but our general play has been improving steadily. In the last two games we have scored 6 but could easily have doubled that with the number of chances we created. If we address the defensive issue over the summer then there are plenty of reasons for optimism next season.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but I don't think we should get caried away with the number of chances created against Blackburn and Bolton.
Blackburn are a team in freefall, and it took a penanlty and an OG before we started to look comfortable against them.
Bolton, well, there is another team that leaks in as many as they score. Even the rags, created numerous chances against them on Saturday.
I think Wolves will be a tougher game on Saturday and I worry that yet another of the 'winnable' 11 is going to slip by without us getting maximum points.
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He overhauled the squad at Liverpool with great success, he will do the same here IMO.
Did he?
For every decent player he bought (eg Hyppia) , there was at least a couple of duds, and he was lucky enough to inherit young players of the exceptional calibre of Owen, Gerrard and Carragher. Despite spending a fortune and winning a few cups, the league success Liverpool fans were really after never looked a reality, and his best effort was one second place, the same as Roy Evans managed.
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Hang on a sec. He won 3 trophies in one season. That's an incredible acheivement.
In an era dominated by Arsenal and Man Utd too.
There's no way that can be considered as anything other than exceptional.
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Hang on a sec. He won 3 trophies in one season. That's an incredible acheivement.
In an era dominated by Arsenal and Man Utd too.
There's no way that can be considered as anything other than exceptional.
Yep, when was the last time we had a manager who could claim anything similar?
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As others have said, we just need to scramble through the end of the season and PL safety and then he can make the major changes that he wants to.
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As others have said, we just need to scramble through the end of the season and PL safety and then he can make the major changes that he wants to.
He can make changes, but I'd guess he'll be on a budget - largely self funding (ie deadwood out first)
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Actually, after checking, he won the FA Community shield and UEFA Super Cup in 2001 too so that's 5 trophies. 5!!!!!
I know it was 10 years ago but the point being that he built a team within, what 2? 3 years? to accomplish this.
I dont know if he can any more, but I dont think after a season when we're still reeling from the mess MON left us in is the right time to judge that. Not for me anyway.
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Hang on a sec. He won 3 trophies in one season. That's an incredible acheivement.
In an era dominated by Arsenal and Man Utd too.
There's no way that can be considered as anything other than exceptional.
It's very impressive.
But those three trophies (individually and combined) were second fiddle to the big one, the league. Did they justify the huge outlay he made between 1998-2001?
Liverpool fans are still divided on that one today.
He was in the fortunate position where he was given the backing to outspend every club in the land pre Chelsea, yet his success rate when you look at those deals overall was more miss than hit.
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I can't wait until he's had a chance to build his own side.
And then decides that the opposition are too strong and elects to wave the white flag. No end of transfer windows, previous achievements, extra training sessions, good football, patience from the fans or anything else for that matter will make any difference if he does not alter his approach.
Hou's half built side with confidence and swagger was destroyed by his own cowardice, rendering the Bolton defeat as a more significant setback that it would've been. And now the pressure is on for the Wolves game.
This is the sort of future I envisige, and it's one I'd rather not have for our football club.
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Hang on a sec. He won 3 trophies in one season. That's an incredible acheivement.
In an era dominated by Arsenal and Man Utd too.
There's no way that can be considered as anything other than exceptional.
It's very impressive.
But those three trophies (individually and combined) were second fiddle to the big one, the league. Did they justify the huge outlay he made between 1998-2001?
Liverpool fans are still divided on that one today.
He was in the fortunate position where he was given the backing to outspend every club in the land pre Chelsea, yet his success rate when you look at those deals overall was more miss than hit.
I'm not going to criticise him not being able to land a league title in a time where arguably the greatest manager there has ever been was cleaning up and Wenger's Arsenal sides were some of the best in history.
The facts are he won loads of trophies and it didnt stop when he left Liverpool either.
I wouldn't compare him to Roy Evans, who managed one Carling Cup win, for instance.
It would also be fair to say that Houllier assembled the team that won the Champions League too.
Was his outlay any more than Fergies (who had an even better youth crop than Houllier) for instance? Or Chelseas? Arsenals? Newcastles? I don't know.
Compared to what it delivered - 2 League cups, UEFA Cup, FA cup, UEFA Super Cup, arguably the Champions league, genuine league challenges etc. I'd take some of that alright.
Let's not make light of cups we would absolutely dream of winning again.
I can uderstand criticism of his record at Villa so far. It's not impressive but there are reasons and difficult circumstances. Its not a crutch he can use forever but his record is superb quite honestly. Few managers compare to it. Very few we've had too.
By the way, I would swap the League title for the UEFA Cup (as it was), League Cup and FA cup in a heartbeat. Easiest decision ever. I dont care what bollocks Liverpool fans come out with.
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Hang on a sec. He won 3 trophies in one season. That's an incredible acheivement.
In an era dominated by Arsenal and Man Utd too.
There's no way that can be considered as anything other than exceptional.
It's very impressive.
But those three trophies (individually and combined) were second fiddle to the big one, the league. Did they justify the huge outlay he made between 1998-2001?
Liverpool fans are still divided on that one today.
They are spoilt bastards though.
In the same season they won the FA, League and UEFA cups, yet a lot of their supporters were still moaning at the time.
They've never got over losing their position of kingpins that they had in the 70's and 80's.
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I can't wait until he's had a chance to build his own side.
And then decides that the opposition are too strong and elects to wave the white flag. No end of transfer windows, previous achievements, extra training sessions, good football, patience from the fans or anything else for that matter will make any difference if he does not alter his approach.
Hou's half built side with confidence and swagger was destroyed by his own cowardice, rendering the Bolton defeat as a more significant setback that it would've been. And now the pressure is on for the Wolves game.
This is the sort of future I envisige, and it's one I'd rather not have for our football club.
You don't know that, but so what?
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I can't wait until he's had a chance to build his own side.
And then decides that the opposition are too strong and elects to wave the white flag. No end of transfer windows, previous achievements, extra training sessions, good football, patience from the fans or anything else for that matter will make any difference if he does not alter his approach.
Hou's half built side with confidence and swagger was destroyed by his own cowardice, rendering the Bolton defeat as a more significant setback that it would've been. And now the pressure is on for the Wolves game.
This is the sort of future I envisige, and it's one I'd rather not have for our football club.
You don't know that, but so what?
No one can predict the future and I'd venture to say that one would be foolish to try and do so. Speculation is the only thing we can really do and that's what my post was all about, and that speculation was based on the evidence presented so far.
I hope Hou is a success at Villa, but I had also hoped that this would be our year for the Cup.
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I can't wait until he's had a chance to build his own side.
And then decides that the opposition are too strong and elects to wave the white flag. No end of transfer windows, previous achievements, extra training sessions, good football, patience from the fans or anything else for that matter will make any difference if he does not alter his approach.
Hou's half built side with confidence and swagger was destroyed by his own cowardice, rendering the Bolton defeat as a more significant setback that it would've been. And now the pressure is on for the Wolves game.
This is the sort of future I envisige, and it's one I'd rather not have for our football club.
You don't know that, but so what?
No one can predict the future and I'd venture to say that one would be foolish to try and do so. Speculation is the only thing we can really do and that's what my post was all about, and that speculation was based on the evidence presented so far.
I hope Hou is a success at Villa, but I had also hoped that this would be our year for the Cup.
I first hoped that in 1965.
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I think by Xmas we will have a good idea of where we are heading , there will no doubt be a lot of ins and outs this summer but I'm hopeful if he can bring in the kind of players to suit his style that we will be battling around the top 6 next season, as it happens it looks certain that 6th this season will not get a European place , due to blues and either Bolton it Stoke being guaranteed a place.
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to suit his style
& what exactly is his style ?? Tip tappying around on the halfway line and forgetting to defend ?
I've seen very little of this "style" that I want at our football club
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I think the fact that we concede so many daft goals colours some people's opinions of our "style". We can play some really good stuff and if we kept it just a bit tighter, it would be remarked on more often. But thats understandable.
There is more sophistication currently and I dont want to go back to the very one dimensional football we were playing over the last year or two. All it will take is to get the few defenders and new goalie we need and we wont be so vulnerable. Plus some of the kids to gain experience.
Its coming but it will take time.
There is definitely more style about our play but style doesnt keep clean sheets. Houllier knows this. He'll know what needs to be done. Too many senior players are letting him down and are also not appearing on the pitch enough to make a difference.
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I think the fact that we concede so many daft goals colours some people's opinions of our "style". We can play some really good stuff and if we kept it just a bit tighter, it would be remarked on more often. But thats understandable.
There is more sophistication currently and I dont want to go back to the very one dimensional football we were playing over the last year or two. All it will take is to get the few defenders and new goalie we need and we wont be so vulnerable. Plus some of the kids to gain experience.
Its coming but it will take time.
There is definitely more style about our play but style doesnt keep clean sheets. Houllier knows this. He'll know what needs to be done. Too many senior players are letting him down and are also not appearing on the pitch enough to make a difference.
Couldn't all of the teams at the bottom say the similar things though? I mean, Wigan and West Ham try and play football as well, and I'm sure they realise that they concede too many goals as well.
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to suit his style
& what exactly is his style ?? Tip tappying around on the halfway line and forgetting to defend ?
I've seen very little of this "style" that I want at our football club
No, that's a very poor assessment of the way we play. You're not Alan Shearer by any chance are you?
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Pass and move wiki , pass and move !
Players comfortable in possession who can pick out a teammate and move to create space and angles , rather than just hoof it up to the big man as some teams do - we are becoming a fluent attractive team to watch and once makoun is settled and the keeper and defence sorted watch us go.
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I like what he's trying to do but it's a shame that he's making such hard work of it.
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Agreed clamps, he has shot himself in the foot needlessly on occasions but we are seeing signs of improvement- that said however if it goes wrong on Saturday then this site could go into meltdown- it's such a huge game and a win would put us well on the way to safety.
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I think the fact that we concede so many daft goals colours some people's opinions of our "style". We can play some really good stuff and if we kept it just a bit tighter, it would be remarked on more often. But thats understandable.
There is more sophistication currently and I dont want to go back to the very one dimensional football we were playing over the last year or two. All it will take is to get the few defenders and new goalie we need and we wont be so vulnerable. Plus some of the kids to gain experience.
Its coming but it will take time.
There is definitely more style about our play but style doesnt keep clean sheets. Houllier knows this. He'll know what needs to be done. Too many senior players are letting him down and are also not appearing on the pitch enough to make a difference.
Couldn't all of the teams at the bottom say the similar things though? I mean, Wigan and West Ham try and play football as well, and I'm sure they realise that they concede too many goals as well.
I suppose so but I would say we have more capability than those teams. That is to say, its only our defence letting us down with pretty much everything else in place (inlcuding the youth system), whereas those other teams around us are just not very good or are more limited.
There's no absolute mugs this season though. They are all capable of taking points off anybody else.
I think the dfference between us and challenging for the top 6 places again is just a few (admittedly very good) players. I really do.
Class left back, commanding ball playing centre half, younger goalkeeper who commands his area.
If we get those and fuck off the deadwood and trouble makers, plus add a bit more cover depending on who leaves, we'll be looking strong again.
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erm......NO!!!!
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I agree with Mazrim a few additions, mainly in the defence and we are on the right track.
Also the only one positive we can take from this season is we have given some of our youngsters a lot of experience. All of them will benefit and those out on loan will also help to improve them as players.
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How can you be so sure from what i've seen this season we have taken a huge backward step, and if he was so good for Liverpool why did he go, his name wasn't even mentioned when Woy Hodgson got the push, I'm sorry Hartman but Ged is not good, may have been but not now and i am looking forward to seeing him and the mute go in the Summer
He overhauled the squad at Liverpool with great success, he will do the same here IMO.
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Yes, results this season are very disappointing compared to last season. But add to the equation (1) that we sold our best player last season, (2) that our second best player last season has had fitness and attitude problems, and (3) that we haved had the worst injury crisis in living memory -- and the way from 6th to 13th isn't maybe that far.
What should GH have done different? Maybe implemented his changes a bit more slowly, giving players more time to adapt. Made a second attempt at bringing Patrice Bergues with him. And fielded a stronger team against Man City. He has made a few mistakes
GH brings with him a good record. But his methods are very different from MON's. Such a change in methodoly is bound to bring short-term problems. Some claim that we are experiencing short-term pain for long-term gain, others that our current regression will last. The truth is: it is impossible to know. If results improve, senior players who don't like him are bombed out, the coaching team is augmented (preferably with at least one defensive first team coach), younger players improve as we hope and his transfer dealings are good, we will be fine. If results remain unimpressive, senior players' doubt about his methods spreads to younger players, bad apples can't be shifted, a few flops are signed, and he has to fight continually for respect among players, then it can end in tears.
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Good record Good record, his record this season has been shocking, I could forgive Man Citeah and the Liverpool love in if he showed passion for the team he went into both those games not really ecpecting/wanting to win how can that inspire, i get really embarrassed when he and GMac just sit there like waxworks not giving any instruction just staring like a some bug eyed loon, I just don't get him and have seen no positives, I enjoyed MON's time with us and Ged's reign is becoming more like D'OL imo
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his record this season has been shocking
Not shocking. But is has been very disappointing. But I believe that his record this season would have been equally bad if he had been acting like a baboon on the sidelines, screaming and jumping. The only difference it would have made is that people would have slagged him off for acting like a baboon on the sidelines to no avail.
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Good post Eig and very hard to disagree. The mention of the defensive coach for me is key. I just get the feeling we only got half the deal when GH joined us. I'm hoping Patrice Berges will finally be in a position to bring his expertise to Villa Park in the summer. By all accounts he was very popular with the players at Liverpool, they all respected his methods as well as being a likeable fella. Everything GH won was with Berges alongside him. It went tits-up at Liverpool when he left.
The way I see it, Houllier needs him more than we need Houllier. For all the problems we've had this season, I still think he should have done better. I expect there to be quite a few comings and goings during the summer. I just hope Houllier has Berges at the top of his wanted list.
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The mention of the defensive coach for me is key. I just get the feeling we only got half the deal when GH joined us. I'm hoping Patrice Berges will finally be in a position to bring his expertise to Villa Park in the summer.
Agreed. Maybe I'm too simplistic, but it's tempting to see a connection between how the team has developed and the skills of the coaches. Passing (Sid and McAllister) has improved, and so has fitness (Duverne). The defence keeps leaking (no-one), and our strikers keep wasting (too many) chances (also no-one?).
At Liverpool GH created a defence that was capable of shutting down some of the best sides in Europe, whereas his Aston Villa side seems uncapable of conceding less than two goals each game. The answer to this apparent puzzle may be Patrice Bergues.
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to suit his style
Tip tappying around on the halfway line and forgetting to defend ?
In fairness that is a very accurate and succint match report of us vs Man Citeh in the cup.
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And nothing like the dominant display against Blackburn for instance.
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Don't forget the impact phil Thompson had at Liverpool on the defence too, when houllier took the job thommo agreed in principle to come to villa and even handed his notice to sky but he said after talking to his family he changed his mind as working with GED was often a 16 hour day and he didn't want the upheaval for his family- I think had he came we would have been much better off.
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Unfortunately this season we've seen more games like the Man City one than we have the Blackburn one!
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I think the one thing even his detractors should recognise is that he is trying to change the club for the better. We do look like we are trying to play good attacking football and we do have the players capable of doing that. Its what happens at the other end that is all wrong. but my point is that I think Houllier is noticeably trying to do something better. If he's good enought o do that is a different question.
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Interesting isn't it peter, that you want him to be good enough because it could move us so much further forward. I think we have to get the season out the way, then I think he might try to get another coach in for the defence and a number of new players back there, most likely on less money!
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Where is Patrice Bergeus employed at the moment then?
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He has improved the playing style. My concern is with his personality, he is aloof, disingenuous and manages to say one thing and then something entirely different. If through his media outings he has managed to upset so many fans, not surprising then that he manages to upset and confuse the players. In short I dont think he is a leader.
A leader does not care more about his personal journey at Anfield than the Team he is supposed to lead.
A leader does not split the squad and then talk about them to the press.
A leader does not surrender the only chance of success and then contracict himself.
A leader does not stand by and watch his team defend so appallingly and do nothing about it.
An organisation can not be successfull in any sphere without strong and effective leadership.
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We've got a situation on Saturday where we might have to call upon Warnock or Beye. Dropping them for being off form is one thing, but banishing them to train with the kids is another. We know they're not the best footballers in the world, but Houiller should have them fighting for a place in the team on the training ground. That's the kind of thing i think Hawkeye was referring to in his post.
As for extending Licahj's loan with Leeds, bearing in mind our lack of defensive options, it would have been the last thing i would have done.
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And nothing like the dominant display against Blackburn for instance.
Blackburn were abysmal and so were we for the first 40 mins
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And nothing like the dominant display against Blackburn for instance.
Blackburn were abysmal and so were we for the first 40 mins
No, we weren't.
If you're going to use abysmal for a so-so first half performance where we largely dominated but didn't create too many chances until the last 10 minutes then you are going to need to invent some new words for when things are really bad.
How about Man City away in the league was a Cooper's Injury of a performance?
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We were much better in the second half but we dominated the game. Blackburn were abysmal BECAUSE we dominated them. You cant play a team off the park if they've had any say in the matter.
Its not the only time we've completely outplayed a team. Just an example of when all parts of the team have come to the party and we've took all the points.
There hasnt been enough of it yet. Nobody is arguing that. Sloppy defending has cost us more points than our general play has deserved at times.
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Is WikiVilla Coopers Injury?
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GH's PR has at times been infuriating and misleading and the odd tactical decision has left me baffled and seriously cheesed off; Citeh cup and Sunderland home league especially. Having said that, I like his brand of football and with a little time and maybe another creative influence or the younger players progressing that little bit more I think we will really start to see the rewards. In Bent we have a player born to put the ball in the back of the net. He might do sweet fa else but GH is building a team that will create chances. Our main problem is our defence, which has been better, and I think that is largely due to the added protection NRC and JM provide now they are all fit etc. Just imagine if we hadnt have conceded so many late goals or goals from set pieces. Even just a handful less and we could easily be 6points min higher which would put is in the hunt for Europa League. The tightness of the division has made it all worse as well.
Overall, I don't think our recent performances have got the points they deserve and I genuinely feel we are going in the right direction. I'm actually quite excited about the summer; be interesting to see who comes and goes and I think only at the bac end of next season can we start to judge him but the signs are there imo.
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I think lots of people can see what GH is trying to achieve and yes we SHOULD have beaten Bolton about 7-3, however, given our current predicament, I'm not sure the short passing game will get us out of the mire. We need ugly wins. I think GH has to adapt to the situation we are in. He needs a short, medium and long term strategy, IMO this is where he's struggled, trying to change it all overnight, far too quickly.
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
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I think lots of people can see what GH is trying to achieve and yes we SHOULD have beaten Bolton about 7-3, however, given our current predicament, I'm not sure the short passing game will get us out of the mire. We need ugly wins. I think GH has to adapt to the situation we are in. He needs a short, medium and long term strategy, IMO this is where he's struggled, trying to change it all overnight, far too quickly.
theres is no point houllier changing things again now wiki, we have shown signs since new year of looking a much better team , yes we outplayed a decent bolton team and if we can stop the silly defensive errors we should have the quality to pull away from trouble and ciontinue this rebuild in the summer.
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
thats like saying ive seen barcalona and arsenal playing the sort or football we are trying to play and look where they are.
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GH's PR has at times been infuriating and misleading and the odd tactical decision has left me baffled and seriously cheesed off; Citeh cup and Sunderland home league especially. Having said that, I like his brand of football and with a little time and maybe another creative influence or the younger players progressing that little bit more I think we will really start to see the rewards. In Bent we have a player born to put the ball in the back of the net. He might do sweet fa else but GH is building a team that will create chances. Our main problem is our defence, which has been better, and I think that is largely due to the added protection NRC and JM provide now they are all fit etc. Just imagine if we hadnt have conceded so many late goals or goals from set pieces. Even just a handful less and we could easily be 6points min higher which would put is in the hunt for Europa League. The tightness of the division has made it all worse as well.
Overall, I don't think our recent performances have got the points they deserve and I genuinely feel we are going in the right direction. I'm actually quite excited about the summer; be interesting to see who comes and goes and I think only at the bac end of next season can we start to judge him but the signs are there imo.
Yes, well said.
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
thats like saying ive seen barcalona and arsenal playing the sort or football we are trying to play and look where they are.
Actually no it isn't. Barcelona and Arsenal play a style of football light years removed from what we're capable of. West ham and Wigan actually play a lot like us, try and pass it around a bit, concede lots of goals, lose.
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Is WikiVilla Coopers Injury?
Looks like it.
VSM picked him.
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
thats like saying ive seen barcalona and arsenal playing the sort or football we are trying to play and look where they are.
Actually no it isn't. Barcelona and Arsenal play a style of football light years removed from what we're capable of. West ham and Wigan actually play a lot like us, try and pass it around a bit, concede lots of goals, lose.
patience risso, my friend , all good things come to those who wait , give houllier time and you will be thrilled by the quality of our winning football over the coming years.
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With a house, you build the walls before you hang pretty pictures on them. Houllier should have sorted the defence as a priority, before getting the team to play his much vaunted attractive style of passing football.
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
The problem isn't with the style of football. It is almost entirely down to how we defend set pieces. Yes, we concede in other ways too, so does everyone else, but if had defended dead balls even moderately well over the course of the season then we would be pushing for a top 6 place again. You cannot say the same about Wigan or West Ham.
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
thats like saying ive seen barcalona and arsenal playing the sort or football we are trying to play and look where they are.
Actually no it isn't. Barcelona and Arsenal play a style of football light years removed from what we're capable of. West ham and Wigan actually play a lot like us, try and pass it around a bit, concede lots of goals, lose.
patience risso, my friend , all good things come to those who wait , give houllier time and you will be thrilled by the quality of our winning football over the coming years.
Let's just hope it's not against the likes of Norwich and Preston eh?
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
The problem isn't with the style of football. It is almost entirely down to how we defend set pieces. Yes, we concede in other ways too, so does everyone else, but if had defended dead balls even moderately well over the course of the season then we would be pushing for a top 6 place again. You cannot say the same about Wigan or West Ham.
It's isn't just set pieces as you say, and it isn't even just the defence. Only about 6 other teams have scored fewer goals than us.
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I've seen Wigan and West Ham try to play the sort of football we're trying to play, and look where they are.
The problem isn't with the style of football. It is almost entirely down to how we defend set pieces. Yes, we concede in other ways too, so does everyone else, but if had defended dead balls even moderately well over the course of the season then we would be pushing for a top 6 place again. You cannot say the same about Wigan or West Ham.
It's isn't just set pieces as you say, and it isn't even just the defence. Only about 6 other teams have scored fewer goals than us.
I still maintain that but for the excessive number of goals conceded from set pieces we'd have another 8-10 points which would put is in a far healthier position. Of course there are other things that we can improve but that is the reason we are in a relegaion battle.
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We play far better football than West Ham and Wigan. Unfortunately if you then just concede silly goals it doesn't matter when looking at results on their own.
But we're not talking about results on their own because we all agree they arent good enough, we're talking about style of play.
Forget Arsenal and Barcelona. And forget West Ham and Wigan. Why not compare us to Chelsea instead? Until January (and Torres) they played a similar system to us, they have more quality of course but the main difference is they have a strong defence and a team that's played together for a while. So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?
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So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?
If only football were that simple. We're going to have a massive rebuilding job to do at the end of the season. We almost need an entirely new defence, including a keeper. I can see Ashley Young going, Gabby might well decide he needs a change of scene, and Heskey isn't what we need. We're fairly well off in midfield, but there's going to be a lot of upheaval. It's not just a case of tinkering with the defence and magically we'll be back up in the top 6.
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we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.
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we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.
I don't think we can be certain about that. It looks like a number of players will be on their way this summer and until who is leaving and who is replacing them how can we make predictions on where we might finish?
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So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?
If only football were that simple. We're going to have a massive rebuilding job to do at the end of the season. We almost need an entirely new defence, including a keeper. I can see Ashley Young going, Gabby might well decide he needs a change of scene, and Heskey isn't what we need. We're fairly well off in midfield, but there's going to be a lot of upheaval. It's not just a case of tinkering with the defence and magically we'll be back up in the top 6.
I agree. When people talk about 'few less goals against' and we'd be top 6, what you have to remember is that the league is pretty woeful this season and the points total for 6th will be quite far off what is has been for the last few seasons. I don;t think that will be the case next season, so in order to get back to the position we were in we need quite dramatic improvement.
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that would be the expectations chris to at least be top 8 next season , and i have faith houllier will bring in quality players and we can kick on from there, if next season we were still hovering in mid to low table then serious questions would need to be asked.
we would expect that the the players coming in were better than those leaving the club and with another year under his belt , i think expecting 6th to 8th is the least we should look for.
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we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.
I don't think we can be certain about that. It looks like a number of players will be on their way this summer and until who is leaving and who is replacing them how can we make predictions on where we might finish?
Predictions? Maybe not. But given that we know he WILL be backed by Randy, then I think we can justifiably have expectations.
Besides, I thought he needed to bring a few more of his own players in so that his style would work better, so surely this would be to his benefit?
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So if we strengthen defence and get the team settled, which can't really happen until the summer, can't we expect to play a similar way and dramatically improve our fortunes?
If only football were that simple. We're going to have a massive rebuilding job to do at the end of the season. We almost need an entirely new defence, including a keeper. I can see Ashley Young going, Gabby might well decide he needs a change of scene, and Heskey isn't what we need. We're fairly well off in midfield, but there's going to be a lot of upheaval. It's not just a case of tinkering with the defence and magically we'll be back up in the top 6.
I agree. When people talk about 'few less goals against' and we'd be top 6, what you have to remember is that the league is pretty woeful this season and the points total for 6th will be quite far off what is has been for the last few seasons. I don;t think that will be the case next season, so in order to get back to the position we were in we need quite dramatic improvement.
We heard it every year under O'Neill anyway. It was always "the attack/defence is great, all we need to do is sort the defence/attack and we'll be top 4". Football just doesn't work like that. I'm afraid I've seen far more dismal performances than good ones under Houllier, and it's not at all just to do with set pieces.
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We do have a rebuilding job on in the summer.
We've had this coming since last summer. Our squad was rotten to the core in pre season, more than anybody suspected.
So whatever happens, whoever is coming or going, it needs doing.
Its pointless speculating on replacing Young before he's decided what he's doing. All we know is that we need to overhaul the defence as it's the major weakness and yes, it is that simple.
We score goals, we move the ball about nicely, we just need to tighten up. Why overcomplicate it?
Then, if Gabby goes, replace him. If Young goes, replace him. We have a manager who knows the market and will act swiftly in it. Then he can spend the summer getting everything ready for next season. That's my hope anyway.
We've been playing catch up all season in terms of preparation. As a team we were not prepared at all for this season and its been one bombshell after another since. Injuries, playing up, arguments, sloppiness, new philosophies clashing with old and so on. No chance to catch our breath.
We desperately need it.
This season will be a godawful memory best forgotten in years to come. And forgotten it will be.
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we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.
I don't think we can be certain about that. It looks like a number of players will be on their way this summer and until who is leaving and who is replacing them how can we make predictions on where we might finish?
Predictions? Maybe not. But given that we know he WILL be backed by Randy, then I think we can justifiably have expectations.
Besides, I thought he needed to bring a few more of his own players in so that his style would work better, so surely this would be to his benefit?
I hope that we don't lose our best players and I hope that he gets the backing and I hope that we can get the players he wants and I hope that they do the job they are bought to do but there are too many unknowns there for me to be able to turn those hopes into expectations.
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I hope that we don't lose our best players and I hope that he gets the backing and I hope that we can get the players he wants and I hope that they do the job they are bought to do but there are too many unknowns there for me to be able to turn those hopes into expectations.
The only player in the bracket of 'best' we're likely to lose is Ash. OK, that's a blow, but it happens in football and you replace him, for which money won't be an issue, and get on with it. Just like we did when Barry left.
As for getting the players he wants, that's pretty much down to him and his ability to sell the club and his vision to a transfer target. OK, if he goes after Messi then he'll fail, but within reason that's part of being a good manager.
And if they don't do the job they're bought for then that again is his responsibility. I never hid from the fact that MON bought some naff players, so I won't give Gezza any greater protection in that area either.
It seems to me that we're looking for 2011/2012's excuses already. Yes, there have been issues this season that he's had to cope with, and next year is the time to form some rational and meaningful judgements, but I want us to be able to do that and not be arguing about more reasons for failiure.
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we should be challenging for top 6 next season and top 8 at worst - i have faith that houllier will have us in that area next season and kick onwards from there.
I don't think we can be certain about that. It looks like a number of players will be on their way this summer and until who is leaving and who is replacing them how can we make predictions on where we might finish?
Predictions? Maybe not. But given that we know he WILL be backed by Randy, then I think we can justifiably have expectations.
Besides, I thought he needed to bring a few more of his own players in so that his style would work better, so surely this would be to his benefit?
I hope that we don't lose our best players and I hope that he gets the backing and I hope that we can get the players he wants and I hope that they do the job they are bought to do but there are too many unknowns there for me to be able to turn those hopes into expectations.
This. I don't see us getting in top class players in the summer simply for the fact that we are going to need to bring in at least 5 or 6 of them even accounting for youth players moving up. We cannot expect to sign that many top class players and we cannot expect Randy to bankroll the vast amount of cash we need to do this. We will need to find the odd hidden gem or rough diamond to make it work. I can't see us splurging £20million on Gary Cahill for example for good or for ill.
I'm more concerned about our defence than Ashley going. We will probably see him replaced easily with a combination of Albrighton, Downing, Delph, Gardner and Bannan with maybe a back up wide player coming in. But to replace the majority of our back five (probably only Clark will stay as a regular) will be very difficult. Last season we were lucky that Collins, Dunne and Warnock hit the ground running and to be so lucky is very rare. Say what you like about MoN's transfer policy but we did sign three experienced premier league players in that case which helped. We will look abroad this window and we can't really expect a player new to the league to hit the ground running. So they will three or four players in particular need to get used to new teammates, a new league and playing together.
I'm not that excited about this window. I don't expect us to sign top class exciting players but rather and hopefully good ones who can do a solid job. If we weren't needing this rebuilding job we could have an exciting window as we could get in two or three top class players who can make the difference rather than 5 or 6 replacements. I'm not making any predictions but my money is either on it going right, and back into the top six we go, or spectacularly wrong resulting in a Ramos at Spurs type situation only without a league cup and with slightly poorer players.
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Whilst I dont want us to lose Ash, the positives are that some of the other talented lads may get a look in at corners, free kicks, pens etc etc etc
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Every Villa fan I know feels that GH has been a disaster this season. So do all the non Villa fans I know. The non forum community definitley feel he hasn't improved us this season - quite the opposite.
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i think ash and maybe gabby too will go , but ash is not suited to his current position and gabby has been very poor this season and not adapted to his new role so if we replace them with someone who can play that role better then i dont have a problem with them going.
there will be a lot of ins and out but that is needed to progress , and i think houllier will spread his net wide.
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I can't help but feel this season is part of the traditional Villa cycle. Expect us to finish 6th again for the next three or four years, before another lower-mid table finish in 2015.
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Every Villa fan I know feels that GH has been a disaster this season. So do all the non Villa fans I know. The non forum community definitley feel he hasn't improved us this season - quite the opposite.
You mean"the non forum community" that you know personally. Which probably consists of a fraction of a fraction of 1 percent of Villa fans.
For what it's worth, the Villa fans I know are of mixed opinion that varies between hanging him from the Flyover or giving him a few years to see how he does. As you'd probably expect.
Again, he's improved some things, not improved others and others still have been beyond his control.
The question is has he "changed Vila for the better" and once there are no more parasites mugging us off, lousy half arsed training regimes, a better standard of football, a scouting network and some silverware and pride, yes, he will have done.
Work in progress. It cannot and should not be answered yet.
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The question is has he "changed Vila for the better" and once there are no more parasites mugging us off, lousy half arsed training regimes, a better standard of football, a scouting network and some silverware and pride, yes, he will have done.
I have to say, I really don't feel proud of having Houllier as boss. That may change of course, but half the pride that needs regaining is due to his own stupidity, like at Anfield and Man City.
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It seems to me that we're looking for 2011/2012's excuses already
Not at all, but would you have predicted or expected us being where we are today in March last year?
There are so many variables that trying to look that far ahead can make you look a bit of an ass.
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I can't help but feel this season is part of the traditional Villa cycle. Expect us to finish 6th again for the next three or four years, before another lower-mid table finish in 2015.
Yes, I get that feeling. And I think we all feel that frustration - so many times we've seen Villa reach top six, sit on the cusp of breaking into the top pack, then there's a managerial change and we slide back down before rebuilding, reaching top six again...
Consolation is that we have proved we are capable of picking ourselves up and turning ourselves back into contenders. We've done it before and we'll do it again.
As for Houllier... I'm sticking to a positive view of the long-term. With O'Neill, short term was good - it was the longer view I had concerns about; had he taken us as far as he could, were his tactics, modus operandi, transfer policy, a wee bit dated? I feared yes. And I think the answer was looking to be yes, towards the end of the season, although we'll never know for sure.
Houllier's got more vision, I believe. He's made mistakes, no question, and some of us tactical quirks irritate me as much as O'Neill's. But I think I'm just beginning to realise what a rotten core of a squad he's inherited. Reminds me a bit of The Damned United.
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The problem with the MON era was it was too much about MON and his CV. If left unchecked and in place he would have crippled the club beyond repair.
I'd agree GH seems to have a longer term "vision" which is good, its the short term that is the pressing concern though.
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It seems to me that we're looking for 2011/2012's excuses already
Not at all, but would you have predicted or expected us being where we are today in March last year?
There are so many variables that trying to look that far ahead can make you look a bit of an ass.
I don't think anyone would have predicted such a huge slump in our form. But as my original post said I'm talking about expectations as opposed to predictions. So in the same way I'd expect more of Houllier with what he's had to work with so far, I'd also expect an improvement next season based on the backing he will get from Randy.
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Agreed John , in a years time he will have had 3 transfer windows and a pre season and 18 months in the job and the expectation should be at least top 8 , champions league is an unrealistic aim for at The very least 3 or more years and I'd be expecting similar positions to o neill achieved but more better quality football.
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let say in 3 years time the squad and finances, footballing would be much better shape and make us very very attractive to top notch managers.
But who know what will happens in 3 years time.
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This new ruling about finance that FIFA are bringing in could see a few changes in the league and cut the gap a bit- we have a great young crop coming through and in 3 years they will be established .
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The orinal question has got some what mislaid on this forum. The answer is an unequivicable NO.
Since ha came in there has been player anarchy, defencive colapses, PR nightmares and relegation as a real possibility.
Oh yeh we play more attactive football at times, but keep getting beat, some improvement.
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I still maintain it wouldn't have mattered who took the managers job after MON left, whether it was Kev Mac or anyone else we would still be in this position and the season would have been one we all wanted to end quickly with us safe.
Certain players from the start were not up for it this year, god knows why. I'll be glad to see the back of a lot of them.
Going back to the original question, not yet he hasn't but he will change our club for the better.
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But I think I'm just beginning to realise what a rotten core of a squad he's inherited. Reminds me a bit of The Damned United.
Aint that the truth.
It's seems amazing the resistance he's encountered just trying to get the players to behave like professionals.
It seems clear to me that many players were quite happy with their less demanding routine, and if this is true then they were never going to acheive anything for us, regardless of who the manager was.
It's also made me think it might explain why a proper professional like Milner fucked off at the first opportunity.
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Said on another thread somewhere it reminds me of the Leeds situation, but GH has been too stubborn to walk away from it or bow to the ringleaders. I think if we can get through and stay up, in 12 months time we will be thankful for him being at the club. Mad Martin could see what was coming and walked before his rep could have been tarnished with it.
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Said on another thread somewhere it reminds me of the Leeds situation, but GH has been too stubborn to walk away from it or bow to the ringleaders. I think if we can get through and stay up, in 12 months time we will be thankful for him being at the club. Mad Martin could see what was coming and walked before his rep could have been tarnished with it.
Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Baker, Lihaj, Hogg, Herd.
All have played this season, all have promise, all wouldn't been within a country mile of the first team if O'Neill was in charge.
Beye, Warnock, Dunne, Carew, Young (L), Collins.
All have had run-ins with Houllier, all are on the slide, all are more interested in self-preversation than working for the team. All can fuck off.
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But I think I'm just beginning to realise what a rotten core of a squad he's inherited. Reminds me a bit of The Damned United.
It's also made me think it might explain why a proper professional like Milner fucked off at the first opportunity.
I think the extra £60k a week might have played a part as well.
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Every Villa fan I know feels that GH has been a disaster this season. So do all the non Villa fans I know. The non forum community definitley feel he hasn't improved us this season - quite the opposite.
There's plenty on here and elsewhere, don't.
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Every Villa fan I know feels that GH has been a disaster this season. So do all the non Villa fans I know. The non forum community definitley feel he hasn't improved us this season - quite the opposite.
There's plenty on here and elsewhere, don't.
I'd say "Gerard Houllier's claret and blue army" isn't exactly sung regularly at games is it?
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This new ruling about finance that FIFA are bringing in could see a few changes in the league and cut the gap a bit- we have a great young crop coming through and in 3 years they will be established .
If we go down it will be other sides who see the benefit of that crop though.
I don't think we will, but then I didn't think we'd be half way through March -with just two months of the season to go- 2 points above the drop zone either.
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If we can stay up (which I still think we will) we will probably see the clear out continue over the summer with a number of real professionals coming in. I think GH, if given the time, will change the philosophy of Aston Villa, and that will be for the better. There will be discipline, dedication, little pampering and an overall better attitude from players.
Like others, I was calling for his head a few months ago because it seemed we were headed for the drop. I still think he made a lot of mistakes when he first arrived and should have remembered that Rome wasn't built in a day. He antagonised fans and certain senior players whom we needed to get performing with the window closed. I think a couple of months of GH stock taking and observing the squad/methods he inherited would have served us better.
I think he is building a better club but that won't be reflected in the results until he can get rid of the players with bad attitudes and continue to bring in players in the mould of Makoun/Bent etc.
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Said on another thread somewhere it reminds me of the Leeds situation, but GH has been too stubborn to walk away from it or bow to the ringleaders. I think if we can get through and stay up, in 12 months time we will be thankful for him being at the club. Mad Martin could see what was coming and walked before his rep could have been tarnished with it.
Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Baker, Lihaj, Hogg, Herd.
All have played this season, all have promise, all wouldn't been within a country mile of the first team if O'Neill was in charge.
Beye, Warnock, Dunne, Carew, Young (L), Collins.
All have had run-ins with Houllier, all are on the slide, all are more interested in self-preversation than working for the team. All can fuck off.
And to be fair if we hadn't had the injuries we had, and Milner hadn't have gone, then it would be unkikely that we would have had to rely so heavily on the kids that in the main aren't ready yet.
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I like what Houllier is trying to do. I think he has made brave and courageous decisions with the aim of improving Villa, knowing that if the decisions backfire (and they did) that it would be his reputation that would be damaged. Therefore he deserves respect.
Whether he is the right man for the job is another question. I watched the inter v bayern match the other day and it was noticeable that the inter players ran to leonardo when they scored at the end. Similarly Barca hoisting Guardiola after the chimps league the other year. Even the Man U players seem to like Ferguson.
Houllier does not appear to be that liked or respected by players (bar carragher). The situation at villa will no doubt improve when the older heads move on but I'm not sure houllier's people skills will ever be sufficient to propel this club forward to regular chimps league condensers.
...I still wish we'd gone for klinnsmann. Oh well.