Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on March 07, 2011, 07:43:53 AM
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According to the Daily Mirror, he can't sort out the defence till the end of the season.
He blames O'Neill's zonal marking system for the endless cock ups.
A bit rich that, it's akin to the Tories continually blaming Labour every time they shaft us.
How many more terrible PR gaffes is Houllier going to make?
Is he trying to be the new O'Leary?
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DOL was a spitefull egotist who seemed to have developed and extreme dislike of the club that paid his wages.
Ged appears to be a good intentioned but ultimatley ill-equipped manager who would gain more credibility if he kept his mouth shut and concentrated on winning games, or at least trying to.
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It's all getting very worrying. I've tried my best to like Houllier - to move on from the MON era and embrace his new more fluent football. But he continually seems to shoot himself in the foot. We are not better than Man City - but we can beat them in a one off game. We had one of the best defences in the league over the last couple of seasons - now its a shambles but its the fault of the last management team and we can't do anything about it till next season. We are now in a relegation scrap and all the signals coming out of the club are wrong. I've tried Gerard I really have and I'll try again - but your making it real fucking hard to accept you.
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Perhaps one of the problems is that Houllier is too proud of his trendy english and says a hundred words when ten would do. He should take lessons in english from someone like Ferguson who uses his utterances like weapons to achieve the desired effect, usually the silencing of all other views.
Houllier is bound to get rubbished in the Mirror MON's bum hygienist Oliver Holt will see to that.
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I seem to be liking Houllier more more each game.
He has brought loads to the club so far an will sort the defence in the summer. That's good isnt it? It's pretty obvious he has tried to change the defensive methods but it isn't working, so needs to wait till the summer to change the players.
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I seem to be liking Houllier more more each game.
He has brought loads to the club so far an will sort the defence in the summer. That's good isnt it?
It would be good if it was true. The bloke's a clown.
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He will sort the defence out in the summer. He has to, it's obvious.
And when he does we'll be considerably more effective.
However, the defence needs to get its shit together right now or we'll be in trouble.
I still think we could do with a specialist defensive coach. Set pieces are killing us at the moment. And injuries, of course.
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I would of thought the first thing he would have done was get rid of zonal marking. In previous games the defence have seemed confused as to whether to mark a player or a zone. We should concentrate on it for the next two weeks.
Interestingly on Saturday only Luke Young was a MON player, and that was in a different position. Lame excuse if you ask me.
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He will sort the defence out in the summer. He has to, it's obvious.
And when he does we'll be considerably more effective.
However, the defence needs to get its shit together right now or we'll be in trouble.
I still think we could do with a specialist defensive coach. Set pieces are killing us at the moment. And injuries, of course.
And it's reprehensible that they have not had one to date. This is the one thing that has really lit me up; the fact that for a relatively small cash outlay they could have had a specialist coach for a position that is bleedin' fundamental.
Bear in mind, though, that it is keeper plus defence that needs sorting out: the keeper is the voice in cahrge for corners ... Friedel has not covered himself in glory.
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Seems to me our defence performs considerably better when we have our first choice players in there. Last season we practically played Dunne and Collins together right the way through - this season's been a different story. A patched-up defence was always going to be a worry on Saturday, and so it proved.
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It's not any technical issues with the defence that worries me, although there obviously are some, but the mentality and attitude. Under MON it was a real 'they shall not pass' approach and that translates no matter who's playing. We've lost that and become a soft touch, which I blame the manager for.
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I was suggesting Friedel had had it a few months ago. Unfortunately there's no credible alternative until the summer.
His unwillingness to come off his line is putting pressure on a very young defence and it's quite annoying. Oh well, this is the situation we're in until the summer.
We'll win enough home games from now on and opposition teams won't always score from the few chance they have like poxy Bolton did. We'll be comfortable in midtable come the end of the season, we wont be relegated or even close. Then it's time for Houllier to make sure we dont go into next season letting in so many silly goals.
We need a defender who would rather sell his children into slavery than let a ball come into the box without his bonce on it. He'll also need to be able to play and not hoof it away ad nauseum. Houllier knows these types of player and where to find them.
Then we need an agile keeper who isnt cemented to his line and will come and collect crosses.
A quality left back of course and then see what's happening with Walker.
Do these things and we'll win far more games than we draw or lose and we'll be at the right end of the table again where we should be.
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If I could make one suggestion to GH, it would be this: decide *today* who will be playing in the back four in the next game.
Then, have them practice defending corners and free kicks all day, every day.
Bollocks to running. Bollocks to 5-a-side. Do it until they are absolutely crying with boredom, and then keep doing it.
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Blaming O Neill, who gave us one of the best defences in the league last season, just makes Houllier look like a blithering fool. He's not had a very good week at all in this regard.
Frankly, I'm fed up with Ged. He's most certainly not gonna take us forward. That's blatantly obvious sadly. We need fresh thinking in the summer, to get the best out of a good set of players. Houllier can certainly spot talent, but he's managerial judgement and motivation seems to be lacking. If he stays, it should be as DOF. Personally though, we should cut our ties.
The tail end of this season is well in the process of fizzling out very disappointingly indeed, which after the 3 previous seasons of always having something to play for, even just Europa, is very uninspiring.
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If I could make one suggestion to GH, it would be this: decide *today* who will be playing in the back four in the next game.
Then, have them practice defending corners and free kicks all day, every day.
Bollocks to running. Bollocks to 5-a-side. Do it until they are absolutely crying with boredom, and then keep doing it.
People I think we've found our new defensive coach.
Is 2 weeks not long enough to work it out.
Perhaps the defence has been practising against our forwards, but when it comes to playing other teams we're surprised by the fact that other team's forwards actually move, which is foxing us a little.
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We will sort the defence out in the summer = fine, so long as in the meantime, the defence doesn't get us relegated.
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Couldn't give a flying toss about the Europa. I'd sooner not be in that joke competition to be honest.
But blaming O'Neill for buying a load of shit is what the fans have done almost constantly and yet as soon as Houllier does it it's a no no. I do think he should leave it though and concentrate on the job at hand.
But in Houllier's defence, and christ knows someobdy should defend him, he has had an unfit (until recently) Dunne, a hopeless pair of gobshites in Beye and Warnock, injuries to Cuellar, Young and Collins. All that's left is promising young players, which he's had to use.
It's not all MON's fault but I think Houllier would have done far better with the money he spent on basically two complete defences. Despite inheriting some good defenders and buying two back fours, only managed one season of respectable solidity at the back.
I think now the problem with playing us is that teams never believe they can't score. When you go a goal down at Man United or Chelsea you think "uh oh, this is tricky" whereas when you a goal down against Villa (and many have) they dont ever think they're out of it and more often than not, too often, they aren't.
It does make a difference.
So we need a few new players, a better system and a bit of that reputation for keeping it tight. All of these things I think Houllier can and will deliver in the summer. He has before so why not?
I at least want to give him that chance.
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The lack of fit senior players is one thing, but then the lack of any organisation and understanding at the back is another. Now, I'm open to the theory that one may lead to the other, but it's still been a very weak area for us that he's ultimately responsible for.
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GH will sort it out in the summer i am sure of it.
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I seem to be liking Houllier more more each game.
He has brought loads to the club so far an will sort the defence in the summer. That's good isnt it?
It would be good if it was true. The bloke's a clown.
Exactly. Brought loads of misery, shame and frustration to the club so far, tempered with playing well in a handful of games that we ended up drawing or losing.
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Why are people so sure he'll sort the defence out? I accept that he's had injury problems and the issues with Warnock etc, but he's clearly not even coaching the players he has t do the basics right, like standing on the back post from a corner. Blaming O'Neill's zonal marking makes him look a right twat. Firstly that system delivered a very good defensive result last year, and secondly he's had 2/3 of a season to coach the players in the system he wants to play.
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I think the problem with the defense, especially from set-pieces, comes from having a panic. Like the fans, I think everytime there's a set-piece they're going into it thinking they could conceed a goal. It's more of a mental issue with the players than anything. If we could get through a couple of games without conceeding from a set-piece, then I think we would not see many for the rest of the season. It's a confidence thing. We've seen what confidence can do to passing a ball, we look good doing this, but that's come from having the confidence to do it.
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What has confidence got to do with just not doing basic things right?
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I might be being a bit naive here, but surely a manager/coach can only set out the tactics and pick the team. Granted we have important players out (again) but the players have to think for themselves during a game as well and unforced errors aren't solely Houllier's fault. I can't think he says "I've got an idea: don't put anyone on the goalline for corners".
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Couldn't give a flying toss about the Europa. I'd sooner not be in that joke competition to be honest.
But blaming O'Neill for buying a load of shit is what the fans have done almost constantly and yet as soon as Houllier does it it's a no no. I do think he should leave it though and concentrate on the job at hand.
But in Houllier's defence, and christ knows someobdy should defend him, he has had an unfit (until recently) Dunne, a hopeless pair of gobshites in Beye and Warnock, injuries to Cuellar, Young and Collins. All that's left is promising young players, which he's had to use.
It's not all MON's fault but I think Houllier would have done far better with the money he spent on basically two complete defences. Despite inheriting some good defenders and buying two back fours, only managed one season of respectable solidity at the back.
I think now the problem with playing us is that teams never believe they can't score. When you go a goal down at Man United or Chelsea you think "uh oh, this is tricky" whereas when you a goal down against Villa (and many have) they dont ever think they're out of it and more often than not, too often, they aren't.
It does make a difference.
So we need a few new players, a better system and a bit of that reputation for keeping it tight. All of these things I think Houllier can and will deliver in the summer. He has before so why not?
I at least want to give him that chance.
Hurrah for a voice of reason.
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What has confidence got to do with just not doing basic things right?
A lot.
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The keeper is the main problem here, a keeper who stays rooted on his line when crosses come in his 6 yard box is a liability- get a touch on it that close and you will probably score, the keeper should take care of the 6 yard box and the defence are under huge pressure because of it.
This was clear to many of us and should have been adressed in January, guzan is just as bad , and friedal also infuriates me by pushing shots out in front of him rather than turning them wide of goal- sort the keeper and he will sort the defence.
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He also made some pop about the result owning to the previous manager selling Cahill - and he wouldn't have done that. Might have been a lighthearted response, but it all comes across a bit as "don't blame me! blame the other guy." Generally it's an unwritten rule that you don't mention what a previous manager did or didn't do.
Whether he likes it or not, the other guy did leave him a competent outfit who had consistently finished in the higher reaches of the table and actually had a decent defensive record. He's also had the benefit of spending far more than any of the other sides around us in Jan, so he's not exactly had to rough it.
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Article from Daily Mirror website:
"Gerard Houllier claims he will not be able to fix Aston Villa’s leaky defence until the end of the season.
Houllier blamed the zonal marking system he inherited from Martin O’Neill for the defeat.
Villa’s defending from set-pieces was abysmal and Houllier said: “We were naive from set-pieces and it’s not the first time we have conceded from them.
“The players have had certain habits for four years and I’m not going to change them in the middle of the season.
“But next season it is something I’ll address.”
OK, so no mention of blaming MON for the defence. He's right in saying that the players had got into certain habits, not passing the ball to another player was one of them, which GH has now rectified. Unless I'm missing something, GH has not said anything about zonal marking and/or blaming MON.
Apparently he "blames" it, but there's no quote from GH to say that.
As far as I can see, he's made a valid point about the players getting into a habit, which is only natural when you've had the same manager for four years. GH wants to do it differently to MON, and so change will take a longer period of time to go from MON football to GH football, but the signs are there that we're getting close to being a good side, especially going forward.
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I am quite worried that he feels he cannot address the defending problems now or at least try to.
Sounds like he has given up for this season.
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“The players have had certain habits for four years and I’m not going to change them in the middle of the season."
What an arse! None of the current defence have been there for four years, and Dunne and Collins have probably played nearly as many games for Houllier as they did for O'Neill!
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As far as I can see, he's made a valid point about the players getting into a habit, which is only natural when you've had the same manager for four years. GH wants to do it differently to MON, and so change will take a longer period of time to go from MON football to GH football, but the signs are there that we're getting close to being a good side, especially going forward.
What players have been there for four years? Petrov, Gabby and Young off the top of my head. How are they to blame for the defensive woes? Most of the defence that currently play were bought last season, and the kids like Clark have played more games for Houllier than they did O'Neill.
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Having poor players, or the wrong type to suit his methids, is something he can't address right now. Simple basics of marking and organising is, so I don;t know what he's on about to be honest!
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I might be being a bit naive here, but surely a manager/coach can only set out the tactics and pick the team. Granted we have important players out (again) but the players have to think for themselves during a game as well and unforced errors aren't solely Houllier's fault. I can't think he says "I've got an idea: don't put anyone on the goalline for corners".
Even Ragarse Rovers in the Birmingham Sunday Division 12 would decide before a game if they put players on posts for corners or not.
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There's been a lot of turmoil and change in the club this season. 3 managers, internal strife, players deciding they'd rather not bother and also a lot of injuries and we're barely able to field the same defence from one week to the next. Literally.
I'm not absolving any blame from Houllier and he has to take at least some. But sometimes there are genuine reasons why things happen and there isn't one particular person or situation to blame, but many and various.
Is it Houlliers fault for instance that on Saturday he had two rookie centre halves, an attacking right back and a right back at left back? No.
And we bossed that game apart from the unfortunate and patently obvious fact that we're weak from set pieces without the senior guys at the back and leaking a goal or two was always likely with a makeshift defence.
Even then we should have won the game and been 3-1 up and almost out of sight. Oh well.
We'll get through it. We'll regroup and strengthen. There are plenty of signs of progress but the weaknesses are killing all that in terms of results at times because they are so fundamental.
There isnt a team in this league that wouldnt have been greatly affected by the injuries we've had this season.
Even the mighty Manchester fucking United get stuffed when Vidic and Ferdinand arent playing.
Houllier knows the problems, he will sort them. You cant say a guy who has had all the success he's had can not see obvious in front of him.
I can forgive him the defensive errors right now because he's had to use kids that are still learning against experienced teams in a very tough, very tight and very unforgiving league. The only thing I cant forgive him for is playing Petrov in any capacity any more.
He's had one transfer window (in which he did well IMO) and no pre season. There's been no real time to mold his team yet and the injury situation has been a joke if it were only funny. This is not Houlliers team yet. Even still there are signs that the style of passing and possession football that so many were lamenting over the last few years (and rightly so) is dramatically improving. All we need to do is start keeping it tight and that will come with the right players returning and being acquired. Our first XI is very competitive and next year will be more still. If we can only get it onto the pitch more often.
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“The players have had certain habits for four years and I’m not going to change them in the middle of the season."
Even if the habits lead to the defense being as tight as a tea-bag? Very disingenuous thing to say.
I might be being a bit naive here, but surely a manager/coach can only set out the tactics and pick the team. Granted we have important players out (again) but the players have to think for themselves during a game as well and unforced errors aren't solely Houllier's fault. I can't think he says "I've got an idea: don't put anyone on the goalline for corners".
Even Ragarse Rovers in the Birmingham Sunday Division 12 would decide before a game if they put players on posts for corners or not.
Fair enough. Have they got a coach we can borrow?
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I don't really understand, if it is entirely about the way MON had them defend, the system he used, why can't we just do that, but do it properly in the meantime?
I appreciate he's had injury problems, but even when Collins, Dunne and Cuellar were consistently around, it wasn't any better.
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the number of goals conceded last season was the lowest in many a year with the same personnel.
I know there are other factors, there has been a decline in many of our players individually this season, pre season was obviously a shambles and the managerial instability has given players a reason to cop out.
But blaming MON for the current defensive problems are ridiculous as the stats from last season prove.
One small thing that may have affected the lack of defensive quality at set piece time is that last season we generally had either Carew or Heskey playing with Albrighton not involved. Cuellar at right back was also very strong in the air. That is another two very strong players in the air that we dont have this time out.
Still and all, the roster available to Villa this season from a back 4 point of view is one of the stronger ones in the EPL Id argue.
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I am quite worried that he feels he cannot address the defending problems now or at least try to.
Sounds like he has given up for this season.
That is worrying. Why can't he do it now? Two weeks until our next game, so why not spend two weeks working on it?
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“The players have had certain habits for four years and I’m not going to change them in the middle of the season."
What an arse! None of the current defence have been there for four years, and Dunne and Collins have probably played nearly as many games for Houllier as they did for O'Neill!
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As far as I can see, he's made a valid point about the players getting into a habit, which is only natural when you've had the same manager for four years. GH wants to do it differently to MON, and so change will take a longer period of time to go from MON football to GH football, but the signs are there that we're getting close to being a good side, especially going forward.
What players have been there for four years? Petrov, Gabby and Young off the top of my head. How are they to blame for the defensive woes? Most of the defence that currently play were bought last season, and the kids like Clark have played more games for Houllier than they did O'Neill.
MON set the Villa team up to play in his style over the four years he was there. All the players brought in along the way were bought to play his way, and because they could, pretty much, play the way he wanted them to and fit into his plans. They may not have been there for four years, but they were brought in because they were MON-type players and players MON wanted and knew could fit into his way of playing. Collins, Dunne, L.Young and Cuellar are examples of this.
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Fuck me how hard is it?
"On corners and free kicks Collins you mark player X, dunne you mark player Y"
That took 10 seconds but for some bizarre reason it is going to take that french twat 6 months.
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Yes, because that's all there is to it.
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What I don't get is, why don't we just revert to type?
KMac knows what they were doing, ask him and continue to defend corners like that until the end of the season. Even if we've nothing to play for a few games to go then do it then, but now? What's the point?
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I appreciate he's had injury problems, but even when Collins, Dunne and Cuellar were consistently around, it wasn't any better.
That's the key.
Everybody goes on about injuries, but the defence has been shit even when we've had our first choicers in there.
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I would say he hasn't played Cuellar enough at centre half, Dunne was unfit for the first half of the season and Collins was not showing the form of last season and has been in and out through injury.
It's not like he's told them to go out and play like shit is it?
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It's not like he's told them to go out and play like shit is it?
Not at all, but the buck stops with him.
How is it that all 3 of those normally dependable players, have had the jitters for virtually every game this season?
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Yes, because that's all there is to it.
What else is there ?
2 players on posts, a player near post, player next to the keeper, player on the edge of the box, keep a player on the half way line, everyone else man marks, piece of piss.
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Earlier in the season we had the players at the back, but were missing NRC and/or Petrov to give them some protection. Now it's that we haven't got the defenders themselves fit.
While both are valid arguments in isolation, at what point do them become excuses instead of reasons??
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All I know for sure is that every home game when we concede a corner, i'm cacking my pants at the prospect of conceding.
In fact, it seems like all of our support feel the same, you can hear a collective groan when we give a corner kick away.
The main comment you hear is
'Here we go again.'
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They may not have been there for four years, but they were brought in because they were MON-type players and players MON wanted and knew could fit into his way of playing. Collins, Dunne, L.Young and Cuellar are examples of this.
Those four are all experienced players, who have played under a variety of managers with a variety of styles. The idea that a year playing under O'Neill has rendered them incapable of adapting to Houllier's super new system, is quite frankly, bollocks.
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It's not like he's told them to go out and play like shit is it?
Not at all, but the buck stops with him.
How is it that all 3 of those normally dependable players, have had the jitters for virtually every game this season?
A good question. As I suggested though, there has been a lot of turmoil this season. Add to that players playing out of their comfort zone, lack of form and fitness, change in playing style. Maybe it's just that simple.
It's very hard to find answers to some of the basic mistakes that have been made this season but although the buck may stop at him, I'm sure making them isn't anything to do the manager's designs.
Also, as much as the defence from last season were solid overall, especially in context with the previous seasons, they didn't half start tailing off in the latter half of the season. So should it be a massive suprise they haven't started or continued to play well this season?
Maybe they just arent anywhere near as good as we'd hoped. Again.
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DOL was a spitefull egotist who seemed to have developed and extreme dislike of the club that paid his wages.
Ged appears to be a good intentioned but ultimatley ill-equipped manager who would gain more credibility if he kept his mouth shut and concentrated on winning games, or at least trying to.
Yet Houllier has won things and big trophies far more than the others surely, for an ill equipped man.
He has had 1 transfer window and a squad in obvious turmoil thanks to the previous manager and the aggro he left behind.
He's been working with disgruntled staff, injuries beyond anything we have suffered for some seasons and no way of buying our of it until January.
In January he has shifted players Mon found it impossible to do, and bought in a right back and striker when given the opportunity something we have all called for and Mon never achieved to do successfully, yet he's ill equipped.
I have never been convinced he's the right man for us, but he's nothing like as bad as many try to make out, especially in comparison to the other 3 mentioned, in the other thread.
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they didn't half start tailing off in the latter half of the season. So should it be a massive suprise they haven't started or continued to play well this season?
Maybe so. It's a bigger surprise though that Houllier thinks that the senior players are incapable of learning a new style of play, and that the kids who have played more under Houllier than O'Neill can't play his way either.
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Yes, because that's all there is to it.
What else is there ?
2 players on posts, a player near post, player next to the keeper, player on the edge of the box, keep a player on the half way line, everyone else man marks, piece of piss.
Exactly
Don't forget that all these players have to do for a job is play football so what on earth do they do in training?
Our Sunday league team could work out in about 30 seconds who was going to mark who.
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they didn't half start tailing off in the latter half of the season. So should it be a massive suprise they haven't started or continued to play well this season?
Maybe so. It's a bigger surprise though that Houllier thinks that the senior players are incapable of learning a new style of play, and that the kids who have played more under Houllier than O'Neill can't play his way either.
Is that what he has said?
Perhaps if he wasn't fighting a long injury list, disgruntled players, and fan abuse, or he had had a pre season to allow players to adjust it might not be as bad.
I can see changes in the way we play, I can see the likes of Ireland, Carew, and others no longer holding us back, I see kids many have wanted as first team picks getting the chances called for yet, he's criticised for doing exactly what many wanted to be done.
Its not working, well enough though, and while 3 wins should not be beyond us, who knows. Its certain that he was not left with a happy squad full of cover in every department capable of covering for the huge injury problems.
If he gets long enough I can see him doing fine, but its a big If
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they didn't half start tailing off in the latter half of the season. So should it be a massive suprise they haven't started or continued to play well this season?
Maybe so. It's a bigger surprise though that Houllier thinks that the senior players are incapable of learning a new style of play, and that the kids who have played more under Houllier than O'Neill can't play his way either.
It's true, I dont think he has presented his case well in this instance. I think he just doesn't rate our centre halves and I kind of agree with him. With the exception of the very promising Clark (who is still learning and perfecting his trade) I dont care if they're all replaced in the summer.
In fact, I very much hope for it.
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Yes, because that's all there is to it.
What else is there ?
2 players on posts, a player near post, player next to the keeper, player on the edge of the box, keep a player on the half way line, everyone else man marks, piece of piss.
Exactly
Don't forget that all these players have to do for a job is play football so what on earth do they do in training?
Our Sunday league team could work out in about 30 seconds who was going to mark who.
Well for a start you've got four man markers against probably five or six opposition players with nobody zonally covering the, you know, penalty area bit. But that's by the by, they're not playing Sunday league football, it's almost a different sport. Can't be bothered to fish it out again, but everyone who thinks football is that easy should read an article by the secret footballer in the Guardian where he talks about training. Not piece of piss, actually highly complex organisation which people get paid millions to work out.
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If I could make one suggestion to GH, it would be this: decide *today* who will be playing in the back four in the next game.
Then, have them practice defending corners and free kicks all day, every day.
Bollocks to running. Bollocks to 5-a-side. Do it until they are absolutely crying with boredom, and then keep doing it.
Not that easy when the fuckers keep getting themselves injured.
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It's one thing to say 'you mark player x' but another for that player to be able to compete with and beat them for the ball.
It's probably 50/50 a lack of organisation and the young lads not being able to phyically compete with the likes of Davies.
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Yet Houllier has won things and big trophies far more than the others surely, for an ill equipped man.
There are lots of managers with impressive CVs out there, who wouldn't cut it in the Premier League now. Would you want George Graham? He's won more in England than Houllier, and is a similar age.
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Yes, because that's all there is to it.
What else is there ?
2 players on posts, a player near post, player next to the keeper, player on the edge of the box, keep a player on the half way line, everyone else man marks, piece of piss.
Exactly
Don't forget that all these players have to do for a job is play football so what on earth do they do in training?
Our Sunday league team could work out in about 30 seconds who was going to mark who.
Well for a start you've got four man markers against probably five or six opposition players with nobody zonally covering the, you know, penalty area bit. But that's by the by, they're not playing Sunday league football, it's almost a different sport. Can't be bothered to fish it out again, but everyone who thinks football is that easy should read an article by the secret footballer in the Guardian where he talks about training. Not piece of piss, actually highly complex organisation which people get paid millions to work out.
I mean 10/15 years ago who heard of zonal marking?
It was a case of being told "you're marking him get inside his shorts"
To show how clueless we are at times there have been many occasions this seasons where every Villa player has been back in the penalty area giving us no outball.
Or when we have a corner how many times have we seen a the ball drop on the edge of the box with no Villa player to been seen.
I'm sorry but these blokes are allegedly professional footballers and seeing as we only have one game in the next month why can't it be sorted then??
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I appreciate he's had injury problems, but even when Collins, Dunne and Cuellar were consistently around, it wasn't any better.
That's the key.
Everybody goes on about injuries, but the defence has been shit even when we've had our first choicers in there.
That's just not true, it was "better". Not as good as last season but certainly better.
I think we're all trying to over complicate it. Last season defending corners we generally had Dunne, Collins, Cuellar and Carew/Heskey. If you've got 4 blokes over 6 foot then you've got far more chance of winning a ball lumped into the box than if you've only got a couple.
So as a consequence of trying to play a more possession based football we've had to sacrifice a bit of defensive stability. He's an experienced man and will know what needs to be done but I suspect it will require a change in personnel.
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To show how clueless we are at times there have been many occasions this seasons where every Villa player has been back in the penalty area giving us no outball.
Or when we have a corner how many times have we seen a the ball drop on the edge of the box with no Villa player to been seen.
That's literally a MON tactic, one which SGT has criticised (albeit when done by other teams). I think it's one of those MON-ball "well we're not very good, so just all of you back and think of Dunkirk" sort of tactics to make up for the players lack of ability.
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Well for a start you've got four man markers against probably five or six opposition players with nobody zonally covering the, you know, penalty area bit. But that's by the by, they're not playing Sunday league football, it's almost a different sport. Can't be bothered to fish it out again, but everyone who thinks football is that easy should read an article by the secret footballer in the Guardian where he talks about training. Not piece of piss, actually highly complex organisation which people get paid millions to work out.
The beauty of football is that it is a simple game.
The man markers are going to be in the penalty area, it's not just then about backing our defenders to outjump the attackers, it's about blocking runs, making sure the attackers don't get clear headers, challenging the 2nd ball.
A lot of our goals this season have come when the attacker has a clear header, and like on saturday is allowed 2 chances to score.
Friedel has to take his share of the blame as he could come and claim a lot more than he does, it could be worse, we could still have Scott Carson in goal.
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Well for a start you've got four man markers against probably five or six opposition players with nobody zonally covering the, you know, penalty area bit. But that's by the by, they're not playing Sunday league football, it's almost a different sport. Can't be bothered to fish it out again, but everyone who thinks football is that easy should read an article by the secret footballer in the Guardian where he talks about training. Not piece of piss, actually highly complex organisation which people get paid millions to work out.
The beauty of football is that it is a simple game.
The man markers are going to be in the penalty area, it's not just then about backing our defenders to outjump the attackers, it's about blocking runs, making sure the attackers don't get clear headers, challenging the 2nd ball.
A lot of our goals this season have come when the attacker has a clear header, and like on saturday is allowed 2 chances to score.
Friedel has to take his share of the blame as he could come and claim a lot more than he does, it could be worse, we could still have Scott Carson in goal.
Still haven't really answered the point that the man-markers would be completely outnumbered, but again, besides the point. Delude yourself that football is this simple game, but it's just not in scenarios like this. It's just not. This isn't an opinion, this is just a fact. A sad fact maybe, but it's just a fact.
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
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they didn't half start tailing off in the latter half of the season. So should it be a massive suprise they haven't started or continued to play well this season?
Maybe so. It's a bigger surprise though that Houllier thinks that the senior players are incapable of learning a new style of play, and that the kids who have played more under Houllier than O'Neill can't play his way either.
It's not true though. We conceded only 22 goals in the final 19 games of last season, included the result at Chelsea. We've conceded 37 in the last 19 of this season
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So as a consequence of trying to play a more possession based football we've had to sacrifice a bit of defensive stability. He's an experienced man and will know what needs to be done but I suspect it will require a change in personnel.
"A bit"
Master of the understatement as usual.
In 24 league games since Houllier took over, we have:
Kept three clean sheets
Conceded 41 goals (more than we conceded in the whole of last season. It's an average of 1.7 goals a game conceded, which means we have to score twice on average to stand a chance of getting anything out of a game)
Conceded 3 goals or more 6 times.
No matter what the excuses or legitimate reasons, our defence has been astonishingly bad.
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
It is noticeable how the mood has changed. In the space of a few days we've gone from "he should have played the strongest team at Man City, we're not going down" to "we're shit, we have no chance of staying up".
I know that's simplifying the argument to make a point but that does seem to be how the tone of the site has shifted.
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It is true, Villadawg. We were not as solid in the second half as we were in first half of last season including conceding 3 to Chelsea and 4 to Blackburn in cup games and defensive sloppiness also costing us the Carling Cup final.
At no point have I said we were all over the place or a defensive shambles but the signs were there.
We've still let in far too many goals this season whatever and/or whoever is to blame, but last seasons defence were getting worse, not better. And of those regulars, Warnock has played and acted like a prick, Dunne was not fit as a premier league player should be before Houllier arrived and Collins was in very ordinary form before Houllier arrived. Not to mention the injuries since then.
We also conceded 6 of those goals at Newcastle before Houllier arrived.
So, is this a) a problem with Houllier or b) the reality that our defence is not particularly very good, has had bad luck with injury and needs an overhaul. My money is on the latter but work for Houllier to do in the meantime. Very much so.
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"we're shit, we have no chance of staying up".
I know that's simplifying the argument to make a point but that does seem to be how the tone of the site has shifted.
Nobody remotely sensible has said anything of the sort, take a little bit of your own advice and stop exaggerating for dramatic effect.
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If the defense was on the decline, which I personally don't agree with, then it was due to being overplayed by Martin through the course of 09/10. That hasn't been the case this season for a variety of reasons, yet it's even worse now than ANYTHING we saw last term.
Credit where it's due for the things he's improved, but by the same token lets not be afraid to point out his weaknesses.
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
It is noticeable how the mood has changed. In the space of a few days we've gone from "he should have played the strongest team at Man City, we're not going down" to "we're shit, we have no chance of staying up".
I know that's simplifying the argument to make a point but that does seem to be how the tone of the site has shifted.
These two sum up how I feel quite nicely. The signs of improvement were there (and still are) but Houllier shot himself in the foot at Man City and as a consequence some fans are panicing again. Our football has been very good over since January and although I agree we look very shaky from set pieces, I have no doubt that with another transfer window we will be set for a good season next year.
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No matter what the excuses or legitimate reasons, our defence has been astonishingly bad.
It's been astonishingly bad sermon pieces, in open play it's fine but we are undone time and again from corners and free kicks. I know that looks like nit-picking but I think it is an important distinction. With Reo Coker sitting we are a more difficult side to break down.
As I said above I think it's a direct consequence of having a small side. If the other team have 5 big blokes and you only have 2 then they have a better chance of winning the ball if the delivery is good. We could always go back to MON's back 4 and play Heskey up front to give us more stability but I don't think that would go down well either. He bought players to suit a particulat game plan and style of playing, as we look to change that then there will be issues.
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Still haven't really answered the point that the man-markers would be completely outnumbered, but again, besides the point. Delude yourself that football is this simple game, but it's just not in scenarios like this. It's just not. This isn't an opinion, this is just a fact. A sad fact maybe, but it's just a fact.
1 takes the corner, 2 stay back, 1 on the keeper, 1 edge of the box, 1 goes near post that leaves 4 to me, not completely outnumbered at all.
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"we're shit, we have no chance of staying up".
I know that's simplifying the argument to make a point but that does seem to be how the tone of the site has shifted.
Nobody remotely sensible has said anything of the sort, take a little bit of your own advice and stop exaggerating for dramatic effect.
In all fairness, I can see us being relegated ONLY IF nothing is done about the defence.
Apparently he can't do anything about it till the end of the season, it may be too late then.
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"we're shit, we have no chance of staying up".
I know that's simplifying the argument to make a point but that does seem to be how the tone of the site has shifted.
Nobody remotely sensible has said anything of the sort, take a little bit of your own advice and stop exaggerating for dramatic effect.
Oh yes they have, several people have predicted certain relegation. However, if you'd read my post properly then you'd see I talked about "mood" and "tone". There has been a marked reaction to the results last week.
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We could always go back to MON's back 4 and play Heskey up front to give us more stability but I don't think that would go down either. He bought players to suit a dparticulat game plan and style of playing, as we look to change that then there will be issues.
It would suit me to have him up front with Bent.
I think Bent would profit nicely from the rejuvenated Heskey.
But I guess that's another argument all together.
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It's been astonishingly bad sermon pieces,
Enjoying your iPad by the way Chris?!
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
I'll throw some more shit at him:
Gabby is not a winger and don't play downing on the left
I know GH has inherited some shit but a lot of the the ime he does himself no favours.
Like on Friday when interviewed about the man City game and he said he couldn't see what all the fuss was about and why fans were majorly pissed off
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It's been astonishingly bad sermon pieces,
Enjoying your iPad by the way Chris?!
Probably having problems using it with his deformed Walls Sausage fingers.
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Chris Smith said:-
It's been astonishingly bad at sermonette, in open play it's fine but we are undone time and again from corners and free kicks. I know that looks like nit-picking but I think it is an important distinction. With Reo Coker sitting we are a more difficult side to break down.
I agree NRC gives us some added defensive strength in the middle of the park, but statistically is that true? Of late set pieces have been highlighted, but if we're looking back over the whole season I think we've carved open from open play just as often.
Anyone got the stats on this?
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Gabby is not a winger
Too right he isn't.
I bet he hates playing there too.
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It's been astonishingly bad sermon pieces,
Enjoying your iPad by the way Chris?!
Probably having problems using it with his deformed Walls Sausage fingers.
Posting on H&V using an iPad is shit full stop.
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I thought Nathan Baker was man marking Cahill but he didn't do a particularly good job of it.
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Anyway, where are these gaffes? I want to see Houllier walking into a patio door or falling back down a steep hill on an MX bike or something. Not even trying to lift a fat granny at a wedding?
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
I'll throw some more shit at him:
Gabby is not a winger and don't play downing on the left
I know GH has inherited some shit but a lot of the the ime he does himself no favours.
Like on Friday when interviewed about the man City game and he said he couldn't see what all the fuss was about and why fans were majorly pissed off
I havent seen this interview on Friday. Who was it with?
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Gabby is not a winger
Too right he isn't.
I bet he hates playing there too.
We can all see that but he couldn't for 4 games
What about the Burnley cup game when we palyed for over a hour with no recognised striker on the pitch
I would also like him to to tell us all exactly what McAllister does
I think GH should be commended for bringing the kids through but then he fucks it all up with baffling decisions
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Anyway, where are these gaffes? I want to see Houllier walking into a patio door or falling back down a steep hill on an MX bike or something. Not even trying to lift a fat granny at a wedding?
His gaffes are on MOTD on a regular basis.
I don't think he get's Ł250 per time off Harry Hill though.
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It's been astonishingly bad sermon pieces,
Enjoying your iPad by the way Chris?!
Surely you're not trying to argue that we're good at sermon pieces.
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
I'll throw some more shit at him:
Gabby is not a winger and don't play downing on the left
I know GH has inherited some shit but a lot of the the ime he does himself no favours.
Like on Friday when interviewed about the man City game and he said he couldn't see what all the fuss was about and why fans were majorly pissed off
I havent seen this interview on Friday. Who was it with?
Danny kelly & stuart robson on Friday night played it at about 9.15pm. It was along the lines of "i've heard all the critisism about Wednesday night at can't understand what all the fuss is about"
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It's been astonishingly bad sermon pieces,
Enjoying your iPad by the way Chris?!
Sugary yew gnat train two argon lathe wear goal hat severance Pisces
No, completely agree.
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
I'll throw some more shit at him:
Gabby is not a winger and don't play downing on the left
I know GH has inherited some shit but a lot of the the ime he does himself no favours.
Like on Friday when interviewed about the man City game and he said he couldn't see what all the fuss was about and why fans were majorly pissed off
I havent seen this interview on Friday. Who was it with?
Danny kelly & stuart robson on Friday night played it at about 9.15pm. It was along the lines of "i've heard all the critisism about Wednesday night at can't understand what all the fuss is about"
The man doesn't get it even after we make all the "fuss".
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I am quite worried that he feels he cannot address the defending problems now or at least try to.
Sounds like he has given up for this season.
That is worrying. Why can't he do it now? Two weeks until our next game, so why not spend two weeks working on it?
Beat me to it, i was thinking this earlier. They're professional footballers, surely they're able to change to a different way of working?
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Everything he has done since Wednesday evening has been reminiscent of Jacques Tati at his blundering best.
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Are we going to pretend we didn't (defensive lapses aside) completely outplay Bolton then? And last Saturday thrash Blackburn who actually only scored with a jammy deflection?
Frustrating as the errors costing us are, let's not pretend we're a bad football team because we're not.
Everything else is coming together, we just need to stop making silly mistakes or have better luck that dont cost us everytime we do make one.
And for what it's worth, I doubt Houllier thinks there's nothing he can do to improve the defence before the summer. Just that the summer is the best opportunity for fundamental change at the back.
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He's had shit thrown at him all season by many on this site who do not seem to acknowledge the disaster he inherited. When we put a few decent games together many started to change their tune a little but as soon results didn't go as we would have liked they are at him again.Fickle to the core, i hope if, as i expect, next season to be much more what we all want to see, those that have stuck their knives into him for months will acknowledge they got it wrong. Won't be holding my breath.
I'll throw some more shit at him:
Gabby is not a winger and don't play downing on the left
I know GH has inherited some shit but a lot of the the ime he does himself no favours.
Like on Friday when interviewed about the man City game and he said he couldn't see what all the fuss was about and why fans were majorly pissed off
I havent seen this interview on Friday. Who was it with?
It was his regular Friday press conference.
He said we were only complaining about Wednesday because the Arsenal goalkeeper dropped the ball in the League Cup final.
At least he didn't call us fickle.
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I am quite worried that he feels he cannot address the defending problems now or at least try to.
Sounds like he has given up for this season.
That is worrying. Why can't he do it now? Two weeks until our next game, so why not spend two weeks working on it?
Beat me to it, i was thinking this earlier. They're professional footballers, surely they're able to change to a different way of working?
This was my point
These are meant to be funely tuned professional athleetes at the top of their game earning millions of pounds per year. But apparently telling them who to mark at corners will take at least 3 months.
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Fickle to the core is spot on ROBBO!
Without Houllier we wouldn't have Bent Makoun or Walker.
He has improved us massively and will continue to improve, but people need to stop having such a blinkered view on everything.
He tried Gabby on the wing to protect Clark at LB which worked perfect at Chelsea, he has now dropped Gabby and played a much more effective Albrighton there. He isn't perfect and is getting hammered for every mistake yet getting no credit for the outweighing positives.
I predict alot of people will be on here next season saying "I was wrong about gerrard etc" like most have been about Downing, sure there will be the idiots who will never give him a chance like the people who still slate downing now.
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There are several reasons for the defence being poor- don't underestimate the work done with them by Steve walford, he worked hard at organising them whereas now there is no specialist defensive coach- we need one , at Liverpool thommo sorted the defence , we need a defensive coach to sort things.
The keeper must come off his line more for crosses in the 6 yard box, GED will want defenders who are comfortable in possession and Clark fits the bill, the days of hoofing it are gone and I hope he has a couple of gems lined up in the summer. A new keeper, quality full backs and at least one central defender are the priority- until then we must hope we can survive with what we have.
We have the quality and I have no doubt the players have the fight - let's hope we can have a bit of luck which has evaded us all season.
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Are we going to pretend we didn't (defensive lapses aside) completely outplay Bolton then? And last Saturday thrash Blackburn who actually only scored with a jammy deflection?
Frustrating as the errors costing us are, let's not pretend we're a bad football team because we're not.
Everything else is coming together, we just need to stop making silly mistakes or have better luck that dont cost us everytime we do make one.
And for what it's worth, I doubt Houllier thinks there's nothing he can do to improve the defence before the summer. Just that the summer is the best opportunity for fundamental change at the back.
And in recent games, we've been average at best against Blackpool and Fulham, and completely awful against Man City. We're not the worst team in the division, but given the players we have, the fact that we're almost hoping that there are three worse teams is a bit deflating.
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Are we going to pretend we didn't (defensive lapses aside) completely outplay Bolton then? And last Saturday thrash Blackburn who actually only scored with a jammy deflection?
Frustrating as the errors costing us are, let's not pretend we're a bad football team because we're not.
Everything else is coming together, we just need to stop making silly mistakes or have better luck that dont cost us everytime we do make one.
I agree with you on this, but until we cut those errors out we're going to keep struggling, and the opposition will think they've got a chance against us.
With such a young defence it was always going to be difficult, as much as I like Ciaran Clark I don't think he is particularly dominant in the air, whether that comes in time I don't know.
We do seem to have been poor from set pieces all season no matter who has been playing.
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Fickle to the core is spot on ROBBO!
Without Houllier we wouldn't have Bent Makoun or Walker.
He has improved us massively and will continue to improve, but people need to stop having such a blinkered view on everything.
He tried Gabby on the wing to protect Clark at LB which worked perfect at Chelsea, he has now dropped Gabby and played a much more effective Albrighton there. He isn't perfect and is getting hammered for every mistake yet getting no credit for the outweighing positives.
I predict alot of people will be on here next season saying "I was wrong about gerrard etc" like most have been about Downing, sure there will be the idiots who will never give him a chance like the people who still slate downing now.
I'd rather be fickle than completely deluded.
Massively improved? Outweighing positives? What are the postives that outweigh being in a relegation battle all season, chucking the FA Cup in like a coward, and generally being inept at every single turn?
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He has improved us massively
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hmmmmm
So out of 24 league games 5 wins is a massive improvement?
23 points from a possible 72
I'd had to see a bad run in your eyes
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If the positives outweighed the negatives, we wouldn't be where we are in the league.
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Are we going to pretend we didn't (defensive lapses aside) completely outplay Bolton then? And last Saturday thrash Blackburn who actually only scored with a jammy deflection?
Frustrating as the errors costing us are, let's not pretend we're a bad football team because we're not.
Everything else is coming together, we just need to stop making silly mistakes or have better luck that dont cost us everytime we do make one.
I agree with you on this, but until we cut those errors out we're going to keep struggling, and the opposition will think they've got a chance against us.
With such a young defence it was always going to be difficult, as much as I like Ciaran Clark I don't think he is particularly dominant in the air, whether that comes in time I don't know.
We do seem to have been poor from set pieces all season no matter who has been playing.
We are not a bad team in the middle at the moment. I will grant you that. We aint a great team either. If GH had turned us into Barca going forward then I could forgive his all fuck ups (its a long list) this season.
It really doesn't matter who actually plays in a defence that is not properly coached and drilled to do the basics. New defenders bought in during the summer won't a make difference unless they is a game plan. There should be a game plan NOW- to say it has to wait until next season is laughable.
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More of his quotes from the E & S, which gives a bit more detail than the edit to cause a fuss version from the Mirror.
He said: “This will be dealt with internally but it is through that we have conceded too many goals on set-pieces and we need to address that.
“I came to this club on September 18, they had their habits for four years and I am not going to change it in the middle of the season but next year it is obviously something I will address.
“For now I will probably stick with it for the rest of the season. We missed Richard, James and Carlos at the same time because they are three experienced players.
“I think what we missed was not just their aerial ability but their experience and probably on set-pieces we showed we were a bit naive.
“Their presence in the air is so good but it is not the first time we have had to play without them.”
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More of his quotes from the E & S, which gives a bit more detail than the edit to cause a fuss version from the Mirror.
He said: “This will be dealt with internally but it is through that we have conceded too many goals on set-pieces and we need to address that.
“I came to this club on September 18, they had their habits for four years and I am not going to change it in the middle of the season but next year it is obviously something I will address.
“For now I will probably stick with it for the rest of the season. We missed Richard, James and Carlos at the same time because they are three experienced players.
“I think what we missed was not just their aerial ability but their experience and probably on set-pieces we showed we were a bit naive.
“Their presence in the air is so good but it is not the first time we have had to play without them.”
Sorry Chris, but how is that you think that that's in any way better? He's still going on about "four year habits" even though none of the defence have been there that long. And sticking with something for the rest of the season that clearly isn't working? Suidical, surely?
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Hmm deluded?
13 of our 22 man squad injured at one stage,
Overwieght Dunne in shit form,
Young lads totally inexperienced, because they were totally underused by previous regime.
Houllier has bought a Goal scorer which we have needed for years
Houllier has bought a quality fullback we have needed for years
Houllier has bought a quality Midfielder we desperatly needed
Houllier has dropped the useless Warnock
Houllier has dropped Petrov whose legs have gone.
Houllier has changed our style of play which is getting better and better.
He isnt perfect but has done alot more to be positive about than to be negative about.
It's like your all willing to take the good, but not accept the bad that coincides.
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Interesting words GED but I'd hardly call September the middle of the season, he's changed the system and playing style so why not change the defensive marking of the team, as I posted earlier the lack of a specialist defensive coach is causing us harm, Steve walford did the job well for mon and he has not been replaced.
Let's be in no doubt GED has addressed many problems and done some very good things this season, good transfer dealings and a much more fluid and attractive style of play bode well for the future, he has cocked up badly with Liverpool and man city issues , but given time I think he knows what needs to be done- the worry is can we get by until the summer, we shouldn't be in this position but for a variety of reasons we are.
Let's hope we can get out of trouble and continue to rebuild in the summer.
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From what I hear, Walford did next to fuck all.
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When we talk about 'why can't we just do what we did last year?', we do need to remember that last season's effective back four - Cuellar Dunne Collins Warnock - have barely all been fit/available at the same time this season. The back four's been remodelled half a dozen times this season; Saturday's line-up was perhaps the most dramatic reshuffle yet. It's hard to get consistency in your tactics when the personnel keep changing.
We should have been out of sight by the middle of the second half on Saturday.
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I disagree there maz , walford has been mons defensive coach at Leicester , Celtic and villa and all 3 had pretty solid defences- to say he did fuck all seems a tad harsh on that evidence.
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From 5th - 29th Jan we conceded 5 goals in 6 games. Things were better. Injuries since then have cost us again.
Currently our only 3 experienced centre halves are injured, I think all sides would struggle under those circumstances - see Manu yesterday for an example.
There are clearly issues but we cannot just ignore the part that injuries and suspensions have played.
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I'm going to reserve my judgement until the end of the season. He can say whatever he likes for all I care as long as we win the games in hand and finish strongly. The last thing I want is to debate about things like these.
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The bottom line is: sort out the defensive / goalkeeping issues from set pieces or we will go down! We're too easy to score against and this is an issue for now.
Getting a decent defensive coach cannot be that hard - get Laursen back in for a couple of weeks to work with them! What does Tony McAndrew and McDonald do about training to defend set pieces? - can we not use that experience?
Even so, you'd think that the existing staff, with the experience in the club (Dunne, Collins, Cuellar, LY), could have already addressed the key problem areas. A video of the goals-conceded from our last half-dozen games would demonstrate what the issues are and therefore a cocaching plan can be put in place to deal with them.
If we don't concede goals we will stay up; simple as. In our current form and that of our opponents, I can see us getting only 7 more points this season ... not enough. Most of the teams we are due to play are showing resilience and upwards momentum.
So, the imperative to get the defending right - and with the injuries and discipline bans outstanding - is a burning one.
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Hmm deluded?
13 of our 22 man squad injured at one stage,
Overwieght Dunne in shit form,
Young lads totally inexperienced, because they were totally underused by previous regime.
Houllier has bought a Goal scorer which we have needed for years
Houllier has bought a quality fullback we have needed for years
Houllier has bought a quality Midfielder we desperatly needed
Houllier has dropped the useless Warnock
Houllier has dropped Petrov whose legs have gone.
Houllier has changed our style of play which is getting better and better.
He isnt perfect but has done alot more to be positive about than to be negative about.
It's like your all willing to take the good, but not accept the bad that coincides.
I guess I hadn't realised how well things are going and how much we've improved on last season.
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I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:
"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."
Patience.
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I can understand what GH is trying to do, by changing the style of play, to where the defence play the ball out and it is welcomed.
But that is only one aspect of a defence, the fundamental basic element is winning the ball in the area. Forget the different nuances between zonal marking and man marking, there is only one ball, concentrate on winning that.
Friedel certainly hasn't helped, and maybe the younger lads coming in have been used to Parish actually moving off his line, but blaming MON just looks a bit desperate, bordering on ridiculous considering how well the defence had been playing under MON.
I am not convinced GH is good at man management, the best managers never publicly blame their players, privately yes, so i think he has a bit to learn in that department.
As for the FA cup, touching the Anfield sign, waving at the kop....yes I think this thread will run and run..
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I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:
"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."
Patience.
Hammer. Nail. Head.
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Hmm deluded?
Yes deluded. A David Icke level of delusion in fact.
"13 of our 22 man squad injured at one stage" And have things massively improved now the injuries have cleared up? Are we out of the relegation scrap?
"Overwieght Dunne in shit form". And when Cuellar came in and had a great game against Wolves, he dropped him for the overweight, shit Dunne.
"Young lads totally inexperienced, because they were totally underused by previous regime." I can't see that the young lads having played a few games last season would have made much of a difference to be honest.
"Houllier has bought a Goal scorer which we have needed for years" Fair enough, but who's to say that O'Neill wouldn't have bought a goal scorer given Ł20m to spend on one player. Houllier may have bought Bent, but he's given away Carew and ruined Gabby, with no overall improvment in results or league position.
"Houllier has bought a quality fullback we have needed for years". No he hasn't, he's loaned one. And we had a quality right back last season, he just didn't get much of a look in.
"Houllier has bought a quality Midfielder we desperatly needed" - Bit too early to say if Makoun is quality or not. And he's also loaned Bradley, who frankly, looks dire.
"Houllier has dropped the useless Warnock". Awesome. Not much managerial skill needed to drop an underperforming player. Bit more needed to stop them underperforming in the first place.
"Houllier has dropped Petrov whose legs have gone." Petrov needed to be used more sparinly for sure. Again it's hardly a stroke of brilliance though.
"Houllier has changed our style of play which is getting better and better." More tippy tappy football, that's mostly ineffective, and leads to lots of goals being conceded.
"He isnt perfect but has done alot more to be positive about than to be negative about." The negatives far, far outweigh the positives. We're conceding an average of two goals a game, are a gnat's cock away from the relegation places, can't keep a clean sheet, have conceded more goals under Houllier than we did in the whole of last season, surrendered the FA Cup, lost to Small heath on the way to them winning a trophy, waved like a drowning man to Liverpool fans, but ignores Villa fans totally, plays Gabby completely out of position, and blames everybody else except himself.
"It's like your all willing to take the good, but not accept the bad that coincides." There isn't really an awful lot of good though is there? I mean, I don't walk into work with a smile on my face because Stephen Warnock is earning Ł40K a week in the reserves.
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More of his quotes from the E & S, which gives a bit more detail than the edit to cause a fuss version from the Mirror.
He said: “This will be dealt with internally but it is through that we have conceded too many goals on set-pieces and we need to address that.
“I came to this club on September 18, they had their habits for four years and I am not going to change it in the middle of the season but next year it is obviously something I will address.
“For now I will probably stick with it for the rest of the season. We missed Richard, James and Carlos at the same time because they are three experienced players.
“I think what we missed was not just their aerial ability but their experience and probably on set-pieces we showed we were a bit naive.
“Their presence in the air is so good but it is not the first time we have had to play without them.”
Sorry Chris, but how is that you think that that's in any way better? He's still going on about "four year habits" even though none of the defence have been there that long. And sticking with something for the rest of the season that clearly isn't working? Suidical, surely?
A bit rich from the guy who turned up 2 weeks late and than radically changed our training programme to now be advovating a laissex faire approach.
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I disagree there maz , walford has been mons defensive coach at Leicester , Celtic and villa and all 3 had pretty solid defences- to say he did fuck all seems a tad harsh on that evidence.
I'm only passing on fairly reliable reports that I've heard. Apparent tactics of any kind were not of great importance in training then. Also, for only one MON season did we have anything like a solid defence in my opinion.
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The football is better and we are creating chances and looking dangerous going forward and more solid in midfield- it's coming together , but we have got to stop conceding such stupid sloppy goals,we had the problem to a lesser extent under mon but the number of late goals conceded happened under him as well.
Fitness levels are now higher but concentration is poor and we look jittery whenever a cross comes in - that cannot wait until the summer and needs to be worked on very hard over the next 2 weeks, teams know our weakness and will look to exploit it.
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From 5th - 29th Jan we conceded 5 goals in 6 games. Things were better. Injuries since then have cost us again.
Currently our only 3 experienced centre halves are injured, I think all sides would struggle under those circumstances - see Manu yesterday for an example.
There are clearly issues but we cannot just ignore the part that injuries and suspensions have played.
Exactly people are only seeing what they want, If we had had Dunne and collins fully fit all season and in the same form as last year we would be fine.
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I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:
"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."
Patience.
He might have been a good manager ten years ago when they won those cups, but he isn't any more. I work with at least a dozen Liverpool fans, and they'd all laugh their arses up if I suggested they might like Houllier back as Liverpool manager.
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Hmm deluded?
Yes deluded. A David Icke level of delusion in fact.
"13 of our 22 man squad injured at one stage" And have things massively improved now the injuries have cleared up? Are we out of the relegation scrap?
"Overwieght Dunne in shit form". And when Cuellar came in and had a great game against Wolves, he dropped him for the overweight, shit Dunne.
"Young lads totally inexperienced, because they were totally underused by previous regime." I can't see that the young lads having played a few games last season would have made much of a difference to be honest.
"Houllier has bought a Goal scorer which we have needed for years" Fair enough, but who's to say that O'Neill wouldn't have bought a goal scorer given Ł20m to spend on one player. Houllier may have bought Bent, but he's given away Carew and ruined Gabby, with no overall improvment in results or league position.
"Houllier has bought a quality fullback we have needed for years". No he hasn't, he's loaned one. And we had a quality right back last season, he just didn't get much of a look in.
"Houllier has bought a quality Midfielder we desperatly needed" - Bit too early to say if Makoun is quality or not. And he's also loaned Bradley, who frankly, looks dire.
"Houllier has dropped the useless Warnock". Awesome. Not much managerial skill needed to drop an underperforming player. Bit more needed to stop them underperforming in the first place.
"Houllier has dropped Petrov whose legs have gone." Petrov needed to be used more sparinly for sure. Again it's hardly a stroke of brilliance though.
"Houllier has changed our style of play which is getting better and better." More tippy tappy football, that's mostly ineffective, and leads to lots of goals being conceded.
"He isnt perfect but has done alot more to be positive about than to be negative about." The negatives far, far outweigh the positives. We're conceding an average of two goals a game, are a gnat's cock away from the relegation places, can't keep a clean sheet, have conceded more goals under Houllier than we did in the whole of last season, surrendered the FA Cup, lost to Small heath on the way to them winning a trophy, waved like a drowning man to Liverpool fans, but ignores Villa fans totally, plays Gabby completely out of position, and blames everybody else except himself.
"It's like your all willing to take the good, but not accept the bad that coincides." There isn't really an awful lot of good though is there? I mean, I don't walk into work with a smile on my face because Stephen Warnock is earning Ł40K a week in the reserves.
Brilliant post.
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I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:
"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."
Patience.
I buy this, Maz, except for the issue that time is running out for us this season - as I said above, I think that we will struggle to close out the 9 remaining games and may only garner 7 points from them. So, what is happening NOW to ensure that we do not concede from set pieces (particularly in the light of injuries and suspensions)?
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He's getting paid on awful lot of money to, basically, make us happy.
Not to piss us off at what seems like every available opportunity.
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His Lyon successes were more recent Risso. And he cant be hammered if he's had a non managerial yet senior role in football since then.
There isn't any way you can dress him up as a shit manager against his record I'm affraid, whoever you work with. I can find you just as many Liverpool fans who admire him.
I wouldn't want Big Fat Ron back either even though I thought he was ace, not because he's out of touch but because it's done and I dont think you should go back.
The point is, he addressed their defensive problems and they won loads of silverware. Pretty much "nuff said" as they say. Football hasn't changed that much in a few years. And he was/is known as something of an innovator in any case. He's not out of touch.
Against that I will weight that he wasnt my first choice or even in my top ten and he might not work out, I dont know yet. But he is very much capable.
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Very deluded there Risso!
I'm on iPhone so can't comment every question.
MON bought injured Downing instead of Bent!
Simply facts are Houllier has addressed the areas most of us had been screaming for, Martin had 4 years and over 100million and couldn't do it.
We have had a nightmare with injuries this season, with no experience in reserve and yes experience does count for an awful lot.
If you don't like Houllier Risso that's fine he never put Warnock on 40k a week.
We were stale under MON and were going nowhere but a financial nightmare.
This tippy tappy football has created alot more chances than sit back and counter every did.
When Houllier has spent a fortune and Bought 5 CB and 4 full backs then let our most promising CB in years leave (Cahill) and let Bouma go for free, then I'll blame Houllier for our defence aswell.
Until then give him a chance.
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He's getting paid on awful lot of money to, basically, make us happy.
Not to piss us off at what seems like every available opportunity.
That's what I don't get. It is like he just can't help himself. Almost as if it is an ego thing. "I will do and say as I like" - "I will be obeyed" etc. No wonder the players got pissed off at the start of the season. He seems very stick and no carrot. You can get away with this if you are winning.
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I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:
"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."
Patience.
I buy this, Maz, except for the issue that time is running out for us this season - as I said above, I think that we will struggle to close out the 9 remaining games and may only garner 7 points from them. So, what is happening NOW to ensure that we do not concede from set pieces (particularly in the light of injuries and suspensions)?
I would hope that we are doing something about it. Working on it in particular. I would say that is a certainty.
It will also help having senior players back.
I do think we'll pick up a fair amount of points in the remaining fixtures. Certainly enough for midtable.
It's not great by our standards but there it is. From thee on we start looking to the future and get our shit together.
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Let's start Heskey, he always heads away corners from the near post. :)
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Think I don't get is that if Gezza has addressed all these glaring errors MON left in the squad and style of play, then why are we so much worse than last season?
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Hmm deluded?
Yes deluded. A David Icke level of delusion in fact.
"13 of our 22 man squad injured at one stage" And have things massively improved now the injuries have cleared up? Are we out of the relegation scrap?
"Overwieght Dunne in shit form". And when Cuellar came in and had a great game against Wolves, he dropped him for the overweight, shit Dunne.
"Young lads totally inexperienced, because they were totally underused by previous regime." I can't see that the young lads having played a few games last season would have made much of a difference to be honest.
"Houllier has bought a Goal scorer which we have needed for years" Fair enough, but who's to say that O'Neill wouldn't have bought a goal scorer given Ł20m to spend on one player. Houllier may have bought Bent, but he's given away Carew and ruined Gabby, with no overall improvment in results or league position.
"Houllier has bought a quality fullback we have needed for years". No he hasn't, he's loaned one. And we had a quality right back last season, he just didn't get much of a look in.
"Houllier has bought a quality Midfielder we desperatly needed" - Bit too early to say if Makoun is quality or not. And he's also loaned Bradley, who frankly, looks dire.
"Houllier has dropped the useless Warnock". Awesome. Not much managerial skill needed to drop an underperforming player. Bit more needed to stop them underperforming in the first place.
"Houllier has dropped Petrov whose legs have gone." Petrov needed to be used more sparinly for sure. Again it's hardly a stroke of brilliance though.
"Houllier has changed our style of play which is getting better and better." More tippy tappy football, that's mostly ineffective, and leads to lots of goals being conceded.
"He isnt perfect but has done alot more to be positive about than to be negative about." The negatives far, far outweigh the positives. We're conceding an average of two goals a game, are a gnat's cock away from the relegation places, can't keep a clean sheet, have conceded more goals under Houllier than we did in the whole of last season, surrendered the FA Cup, lost to Small heath on the way to them winning a trophy, waved like a drowning man to Liverpool fans, but ignores Villa fans totally, plays Gabby completely out of position, and blames everybody else except himself.
"It's like your all willing to take the good, but not accept the bad that coincides." There isn't really an awful lot of good though is there? I mean, I don't walk into work with a smile on my face because Stephen Warnock is earning Ł40K a week in the reserves.
Brilliant post.
Indeed. Sums it up. Houlliers regime on the whole, aside from signing Bent, has been wholly unexciting and just very disappointing. For all O Neills style faults, we at least had a good fist of it each season and something to play for. But more so there was a great sense of spirit and dynamism about the team. Players bust an absolute gut for O Neill and at our best, our counter attacking was a joy to watch (mostly 07-09). In Ash Young for one season, as well as Laursen for one, we had as close as we have since losing them, to finding our new Yorke and McGrath.
I think we're a club with enough quality and potential in place, to expect a top 6 push, year in year out. With that bit more we can push for top 4. However, under Houllier, I foresee mid-table at best. That goes for next season as well.
The tippy tappy football was the best part of the previous post. It's all well and good keeping it better in the first 2/3 of the pitch, but we don't score enough goals, make enough chances and at the back, we're fucking diabolical.
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Think I don't get is that if Gezza has addressed all these glaring errors MON left in the squad and style of play, then why are we so much worse than last season?
Well firstly because that twat did so much damage leaving us when he did and signing so many average players that dont figure and waste our resources and secondly, whilst many problems have been addressed, some more have arisen.
But once they are addressed, we'll be better off.
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Think I don't get is that if Gezza has addressed all these glaring errors MON left in the squad and style of play, then why are we so much worse than last season?
You're focussing too much on the goals and results aspect of football.
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Think I don't get is that if Gezza has addressed all these glaring errors MON left in the squad and style of play, then why are we so much worse than last season?
You're focussing too much on the goals and results aspect of football.
...and not enough on the dropping of Stephen Warnock aspect of football. Seriously forget about the league table and the FA and League Cups, and focus on our international left back training by himself, and you'll be much happier.
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Would it be fair to say that the changing of the guard is very much a work in progress with many pitfalls and difficulties along the way or does all of that work have to have been done by now for some reason?
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Would it be fair to say that the changing of the guard is very much a work in progress with many pitfalls and difficulties along the way or does all of that work have to have been done by now for some reason?
It was always going to be a season of transition. However I thought that at worst we'd be hovering somewhere around mid table, maybe with an outside chance of 6th or 7th.
I never expected a season long relegation battle and capitulation in the FA Cup. The only real reason for things being this bad is the choice of manager.
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Think I don't get is that if Gezza has addressed all these glaring errors MON left in the squad and style of play, then why are we so much worse than last season?
You're focussing too much on the goals and results aspect of football.
...and not enough on the dropping of Stephen Warnock aspect of football. Seriously forget about the league table and the FA and League Cups, and focus on our international left back training by himself, and you'll be much happier.
This "international left back" (ha) is an utter c*** by the way.
I'm not sure why he is even being mentioned particularly by the way, especially in such snide terms.
But this minge is training by himself because firstly, he has been playing like a drain all season, before even Houllier came in, then he has slagged the club, the city and the fans off. So I wouldn't be in any rush to make an issue out of him except what a massive sack of worthless shit he is.
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Would it be fair to say that the changing of the guard is very much a work in progress with many pitfalls and difficulties along the way or does all of that work have to have been done by now for some reason?
It would Maz, but the masses have made up their mind.
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I agree with that Mazrim, I was merely making the point that dropping him isn't really a positive to get all over-excited about, as Shrek seemed to be doing a page or two back.
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Would it be fair to say that the changing of the guard is very much a work in progress with many pitfalls and difficulties along the way or does all of that work have to have been done by now for some reason?
It was always going to be a season of transition. However I thought that at worst we'd be hovering somewhere around mid table, maybe with an outside chance of 6th or 7th.
I never expected a season long relegation battle and capitulation in the FA Cup. The only real reason for things being this bad is the choice of manager.
No, there are several reasons but concentrating on the manager is... easier?
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I can accept a 'work in progress' way of looking at things. I can also accept this as a transitional season and write it off. What I can't accept is people trying to convince me how we're actually better off now than last season and it's all Martin's fault anyway.
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Would it be fair to say that the changing of the guard is very much a work in progress with many pitfalls and difficulties along the way or does all of that work have to have been done by now for some reason?
It was always going to be a season of transition. However I thought that at worst we'd be hovering somewhere around mid table, maybe with an outside chance of 6th or 7th.
I never expected a season long relegation battle and capitulation in the FA Cup. The only real reason for things being this bad is the choice of manager.
No, there are several reasons but concentrating on the manager is... easier?
It's......logical.
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I agree with that Mazrim, I was merely making the point that dropping him isn't really a positive to get all over-excited about, as Shrek seemed to be doing a page or two back.
No it isnt. We paid and are paying a lot of money for that twat and there really arent any positives you can associate with him.
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I can accept a 'work in progress' way of looking at things. I can also accept this as a transitional season and write it off. What I can't accept is people trying to convince me how we're actually better off now than last season and it's all Martin's fault anyway.
How can most of the strife from this season not be MON's fault? Sorry mate, I was behind him in many ways but you'll have to explain this one to me.
If I was to write a "state of the Villa address" most of our ills would be that man's choice to leave when he did and many of his transfer policies. Of course, not everything is his fault but chief agitant, as things stand, certainly.
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I can accept a 'work in progress' way of looking at things. I can also accept this as a transitional season and write it off. What I can't accept is people trying to convince me how we're actually better off now than last season and it's all Martin's fault anyway.
How can most of the strife from this season not be MON's fault? Sorry mate, I was behind him in many ways but you'll have to explain this one to me.
If I was to write a "state of the Villa address" most of our ills would be that man's choice to leave when he did and many of his transfer policies. Of course, not everything is his fault but chief agitant, as things stand, certainly.
I wasn't an O'Neill fan, but even leaving the way he did, he left a team capable of doing better than we are now.
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I can accept a 'work in progress' way of looking at things. I can also accept this as a transitional season and write it off. What I can't accept is people trying to convince me how we're actually better off now than last season and it's all Martin's fault anyway.
How can most of the strife from this season not be MON's fault? Sorry mate, I was behind him in many ways but you'll have to explain this one to me.
If I was to write a "state of the Villa address" most of our ills would be that man's choice to leave when he did and many of his transfer policies. Of course, not everything is his fault but chief agitant, as things stand, certainly.
I wasn't an O'Neill fan, but even leaving the way he did, he left a team capable of doing better than we are now.
At team that lost 6-0 at a newly promoted club?
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@Mazrim (sorry - quoting ain't working for me right now!)
Yet that team/squad had finished 6th and reached Wembley twice, so whatever we may have thought about individual players the balance was very good. Now we are in amongst the relegation candidates with largely the same squad, which he's tweaked to most people's satisfaction in January.
My opinion on MON's Villa was always that it needed evolution, mainly is the areas of more ambitious transfers and better ball retention, not revolution. Now, in many ways Gezza has addressed both those areas, yet in the meantime has allowed the rest to go to pot.
I was prepared to take one step back in order to take two forward, but what appears to have happened is two back and one forward. Next season is the time to judge and I'm not advocating him being sacked, but whatever the reasons or excuses we can come up with, in a results orientated business the results under him have been awful.
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I can accept a 'work in progress' way of looking at things. I can also accept this as a transitional season and write it off. What I can't accept is people trying to convince me how we're actually better off now than last season and it's all Martin's fault anyway.
How can most of the strife from this season not be MON's fault? Sorry mate, I was behind him in many ways but you'll have to explain this one to me.
If I was to write a "state of the Villa address" most of our ills would be that man's choice to leave when he did and many of his transfer policies. Of course, not everything is his fault but chief agitant, as things stand, certainly.
I wasn't an O'Neill fan, but even leaving the way he did, he left a team capable of doing better than we are now.
At team that lost 6-0 at a newly promoted club?
Yes, that one.
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That team also picked up up a higher points to game ratio before he came than after.
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Yes, the team was decent WITH him as it's his team. You cant seriously expect another manager to come in and run it as MON did, without arguably it's best player, with so many fringe players being no more than useless (MON didn't do fringe players) with no time to prepare. With mounting injury problems that MON never seemed to have.
It's not as simple as saying "this team did this". The moment he left, it means nothing. He was such a tyrant with it that it couldn't really fucntion to the same level without him. And even with him it was, in the end, a mish mash of deseprate football, conceding possesion to every team (even the shittest ones had more possession) we played and counter attacking. Yes, it worked mostly but correct me if I'm wrong, many people were complaining about how tedious and unsophsticated it was, weren't they?
So you cant say, "hey, this is the team that finished 6th three times and got to wembley". Or you can but I dont buy it.
More accurately you can say, "this is the team that has looked flat and disinterested all preseason, is in various states of fitness including not at all, is rife with injury, is confused, has had its complete first team staff do one at the last minute, has just had the reserve manager in charge and unsure if he wants the job, has just been hammered by poxy Newcastle and has lots of fringe players who rarely play, depressed, useless and sapping all your wage allowance and some of them are going to be harder to shift than cans of Chinese tartan paint. On the plus side you have really good kids you're going to have to start bringing through although they have had little experience. But dont play too many of them or the fans will call you names."
Yes, I think that's nearer the truth.
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Well, it's all about opinions, but if the previous manager 'didn't do fringe' players why try to bring in a rotation policy until you can strengthen the squad as you see fit? Why take the one position we did have quality in (wide) and play a striker there? Did his extra training regimes add to the injury list? And if so why not stop them until injuries had cleared up?
If as much as you say was wrong under MON we wouldn't have finished 6th. But we did, so it wasn't, IMO. Our squad needed a clearout that I won't deny, but it was/is still packed with quality players that are capable of more than a bottom half finish. We were mentally resilient and hard to beat - now we're a soft touch.
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Gerard Gaffe number 10,948: Bannan loaned to Leeds.
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Hey John. Dont need to look any further than here.
Right back, cant keep the ball, cant win in March, cant or wont make substitutions, no tactical nous, outthought again, players out of position, Petrov starts again, wont look abroad for players, paying over the odds for rubbish, leaves everything to the last minute, too limited, too reliant on counter attack, cant change it, wont change it, Heskey for Carew zzzzzzzz, Sidwell for whoever, 75 minutes... blah blah blah.
Every week for years. Every day. There was plenty wrong if you believe what you read here or on the forums in general. For what it's worth I only subscribed to some of it but a lot of it had basis somewhere.
Gerrard Houllier is a better Manager than Martin O'Neill. His CV says so, his reputation says so, his trophy cabinet says so. For what it's worth, I say so. The media wont say so.
But essentially and most importantly for us, they are two completely different people with different Modus operandi and that's going to manifest itself on a football pitch.
This team is not Houllier's team. It is a mix of philosophies, experience, ability. Its going to take a while to get this team as he wants it and then, in my opinion, it will be better than MONs team. Better to watch, better results in terms of honours. Just... better. If he's given the time. MON was and he struggled in his first season too at times. With months to go we were hovering near the relegation places, couldn't win a game for ages, but we finished mid table and improved from there.
Sound familar?
Anyway, I'm done. I'm not playing Gerard's advocate anymore today.
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It was always going to be a season of transition. However I thought that at worst we'd be hovering somewhere around mid table, maybe with an outside chance of 6th or 7th.
I never expected a season long relegation battle and capitulation in the FA Cup. The only real reason for things being this bad is the choice of manager.
Nowt to do with the squad left behind by Mon, the lateness of his departure, his poorly prepared squad, the injuries, the time taken to get a new man in, and the general disruption to the season by all those factors then ?
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fucking hell, we are starting to sound like Liverpool or United fans with all this alarmist stuff. Things are not going well, but we will go right back to square one if we fire and hire. And how is to say we could replace with a better Manager. He knows what he needs to do, tighten up the back. Our front line and midfield actually looks better than it has done for some time. He knows how to make a tight defense, his history would lead us to believe that, and im confident he can improve it. He knows he has to cut the wage bill. He is doing it. He shouldnt have gambled on the FA Cup game IMO, historically it just doesnt work. As for loaning out players, if they get games week in week out, it improves them, and at worse will increase their value. God only knows what these pages would be like if DOL was in charge.
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I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:
"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."
Patience.
He might have been a good manager ten years ago when they won those cups, but he isn't any more. I work with at least a dozen Liverpool fans, and they'd all laugh their arses up if I suggested they might like Houllier back as Liverpool manager.
Understandable,why have Houllier back when the King is back in charge ?
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I've just been speaking to a Liverpool supporting friend who says:
"The one thing that Houllier did well at Liverpool was install a mean defence. He signed Hyypia, Henchoz and Riise and we won the treble in 2001.
I think he’ll come good at Villa, he’s a great manager and he just needs to be given time. As you say, in the summer he needs to put his stamp on the team."
Patience.
He might have been a good manager ten years ago when they won those cups, but he isn't any more. I work with at least a dozen Liverpool fans, and they'd all laugh their arses up if I suggested they might like Houllier back as Liverpool manager.
Understandable,why have Houllier back when the King is back in charge ?
There'd be a long list of people I suspect before they'd have Houllier back.
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Risso, the only reason for that is not to go back, it doesnt ever seem to work somehow. I know a lot of Liverpool fans, and season ticket holders, and all speak very highly of Hou when he was the gaffer. My stepdad at the start of this season said he wished they had gone back to Hou instead of Woy (he is a lifelong Red, worst luck, great guy otherwise!), and that was before we took him on
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fucking hell, we are starting to sound like Liverpool or United fans with all this alarmist stuff. Things are not going well, but we will go right back to square one if we fire and hire. And how is to say we could replace with a better Manager. He knows what he needs to do, tighten up the back. Our front line and midfield actually looks better than it has done for some time. He knows how to make a tight defense, his history would lead us to believe that, and im confident he can improve it. He knows he has to cut the wage bill. He is doing it. He shouldnt have gambled on the FA Cup game IMO, historically it just doesnt work. As for loaning out players, if they get games week in week out, it improves them, and at worse will increase their value. God only knows what these pages would be like if DOL was in charge.
What have Liverpool and Man U got to do with anything, they're not in danger of going down last time I checked.
Liverpool are an interesting case though. Finished below us, had all sorts of goings on off the pitch, have had both Hodgson and Dalglish taking over a shambles this season, have lost one of the best forwards in the world and yet are ensconced in 6th having just spanked Man U. Sometimes you have to stop making excuses and get on with it. Hodgson wasn't working out for them, so they had the balls to get rid, and are reaping the dividends. We stuck by the utterly incompetent Houllier, and are paying for it.
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Risso, the only reason for that is not to go back, it doesnt ever seem to work somehow.
Dalglish seems to be doing OK.....
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Fair point Risso, as soon as i posted that i realised my gaffe, number 10455883! I guess I was thinking GT, and I read someplace about it turning out a bad decision to go back to a club
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Gerard Gaffe number 10,948: Bannan loaned to Leeds.
A useful contribution to the discussion; thanks.
Do you not like Hou then?
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Fair point Risso, as soon as i posted that i realised my gaffe, number 10455883! I guess I was thinking GT, and I read someplace about it turning out a bad decision to go back to a club
Sorry, just couldn't resist the open goal! It was a fair point really. I'd say the reason "going back" rarely works is probably because when it happens, it's usually when a club wants to appoint an old favourite on the cheap when they've been having a few problems. Eg your example of Graham Taylor. I have to say I've been surprised at how well Dalglish has done after a shakey start, I suppose it remains to be seen if he can carry it on.
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Regardless of his tactics, signings and ability to coach a team, I don't want a manager who shrugs his shoulders and gives up in the face of teams with better resources.
Furthermore I don't want a manager who does this and then fails to understand the "fuss" afterwards.
It may be wise to give the man time to re-build a squad and shape his own team, but not if he continues with this attitude.
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Id like to see where Liverpool are in a years time. (ideally below us). I still feel thats a moderate squad with one Suarez. They seem to be fired up by the magic of Dalglish at the moment, but will it last. I think our man has the opportunity and potential to build a top squad, and i think he wants to do it (it the appetite). He isnt the best communicator on the TV, I agree. He is no soundbiter like our previous boss, but im not really fussed about this. I do feel our team is trying to play more football than they did 12-18 months ago, something these pages used to lament. I cant argue about results, and my defence of MON was he ground out results, (grinding out like the sound of your teeth watching an antiseptic display). Im still smarting about the FA cup though, sorry to bring it up. The season before MONs Moscow debacle, Bolton did a smilar thing, on a decent run, and decided to sacrifice a Europa game, and their season folded. You paint yourself into a corner then, a good result would justify it, but everything is against you. That for me has been his biggest mistake. I understand why he did it, but frigging wish he hadnt. So, I would change the thread to Gerards Gaffe (singular)
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The trrouble is Moet, as you've rightly pointed ut, chucking in the chance of cup glory often results in a downturn in fortunes in the league. We saw it after Moscow, and with our fragile mentality, we could we see it again, with the big difference that our league position is a lot more precarious now.
At Bolton, when we were 2-1 up, Petrov was warming up near us, and looked full of beans and was laughing and smiling at the Villa fans. At the final whistle, he (and most of the others) looked utterly dejected. I know you'd expect that given the way the game unfolded, but we've seen too often in the last two seasons how a poor run of form can get up a head of steam due to low confidence.
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I couldnt get to the Bolton game, and was so fecked off with the result, I didnt watch football first, so cant make any sort of decision on them, the match reports (for what its worth) said we outplayed them for the majority and should have won. shouldawouldacoulda usually equals no points and a worsening goal difference. I can imagine the capitulation though. So gutting after a really enjoyable second half against Slackburn.
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I couldnt get to the Bolton game, and was so fecked off with the result, I didnt watch football first, so cant make any sort of decision on them, the match reports (for what its worth) said we outplayed them for the majority and should have won. shouldawouldacoulda usually equals no points and a worsening goal difference. I can imagine the capitulation though. So gutting after a really enjoyable second half against Slackburn.
Right again really. If we'd had that performance and result against Bolton when we were 6th in the table, you could put it down to "one of those games" that every team experiences. Now though, we're running out of games and need points by hook or by crook. We're just a really soft touvh at the moment, and I don't like having to rely on the fact that there will be three worse teams than us.
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He reckons he can't do anything to change the way we defend set pieces, and yet he already has changed it. He must think we're too stupid to notice.
I hope by the phrase 'we're going to stick with it', what he really means is 'we're going to go back to it'. The fucking liar.
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At least we've got a proper right back Perce! ;)
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Next season is either going to be fantastic or an absolute disaster, with the much predicted massive turn around in playing staff, let's just hope it's not the latter!
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Thing is Perce, the writing was on the wall for zonal mRking towards the tail end of last season. We were starting to concede silly goals. But it shouldn't matter which defensive detail we're on if the players fail miserably to do it correctly. It's not as if this new man to man marking thing is alien to them.
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He must think we're too stupid to notice
From your other thread it seems few did notice.
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Thing is Perce, the writing was on the wall for zonal mRking towards the tail end of last season.
Maybe, maybe not. Personally I disagree. But its nonetheless annoying that GH is bullshitting us that we're still doing it.
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He must think we're too stupid to notice
From your other thread it seems few did notice.
*Applause*
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Fickle to the core is spot on ROBBO!
Without Houllier we wouldn't have Bent Makoun or Walker.
He has improved us massively and will continue to improve, but people need to stop having such a blinkered view on everything.
He tried Gabby on the wing to protect Clark at LB which worked perfect at Chelsea, he has now dropped Gabby and played a much more effective Albrighton there. He isn't perfect and is getting hammered for every mistake yet getting no credit for the outweighing positives.
I predict alot of people will be on here next season saying "I was wrong about gerrard etc" like most have been about Downing, sure there will be the idiots who will never give him a chance like the people who still slate downing now.
I'd rather be fickle than completely deluded.
Massively improved? Outweighing positives? What are the postives that outweigh being in a relegation battle all season, chucking the FA Cup in like a coward, and generally being inept at every single turn?
See this is what I don't get.
Fickle to me would be "Gerard's great! We've never had a manager as great as him!" one game. And then the same people saying "Boo! Get rid." Next time out.
What I actually see is those who have had doubts about him from the beginning not being swayed by the odd good result (and when you strip it down, that's all it's been this year) and those who think he's doing a good/acceptable/ job not seemingly swayed by a whole series of poor results. I wouldn't suggest either are fickle, I'm sure both believe what they believe based on some form of logic. It just appears to me that the latter argument relies more on faith/ hope than substance.
When a new manager takes over, you look for signs that he is having a positive effect. That generally manifests itself in results most obviously, but also individual player form. On both counts (minus a brief up turn in form from Ivanhoe for a few months) that hadn't been the case. Indeed, it seems a fair few players have regressed. That's why I don't automatically think that more time for Houllier past this summer = guaranteed upturn in fortune next year.
If there was a sustained period of improvement over a number of games, hell if the defence even put a few clean sheets together, some of those who have major doubts about the bloke (like me) might revisit that. If that qualifies as fickle then I'll wear it. On most decisions my conclusions may change when the evidence changes, but maybe I'm funny that way.
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Fickle to the core is spot on ROBBO!
Without Houllier we wouldn't have Bent Makoun or Walker.
He has improved us massively and will continue to improve, but people need to stop having such a blinkered view on everything.
He tried Gabby on the wing to protect Clark at LB which worked perfect at Chelsea, he has now dropped Gabby and played a much more effective Albrighton there. He isn't perfect and is getting hammered for every mistake yet getting no credit for the outweighing positives.
I predict alot of people will be on here next season saying "I was wrong about gerrard etc" like most have been about Downing, sure there will be the idiots who will never give him a chance like the people who still slate downing now.
I'd rather be fickle than completely deluded.
Massively improved? Outweighing positives? What are the postives that outweigh being in a relegation battle all season, chucking the FA Cup in like a coward, and generally being inept at every single turn?
See this is what I don't get.
Fickle to me would be "Gerard's great! We've never had a manager as great as him!" one game. And then the same people saying "Boo! Get rid." Next time out.
What I actually see is those who have had doubts about him from the beginning not being swayed by the odd good result (and when you strip it down, that's all it's been this year) and those who think he's doing a good/acceptable/ job not seemingly swayed by a whole series of poor results. I wouldn't suggest either are fickle, I'm sure both believe what they believe based on some form of logic. It just appears to me that the latter argument relies more on faith/ hope than substance.
When a new manager takes over, you look for signs that he is having a positive effect. That generally manifests itself in results most obviously, but also individual player form. On both counts (minus a brief up turn in form from Ivanhoe for a few months) that hadn't been the case. Indeed, it seems a fair few players have regressed. That's why I don't automatically think that more time for Houllier past this summer = guaranteed upturn in fortune next year.
If there was a sustained period of improvement over a number of games, hell if the defence even put a few clean sheets together, some of those who have major doubts about the bloke (like me) might revisit that. If that qualifies as fickle then I'll wear it. On most decisions my conclusions may change when the evidence changes, but maybe I'm funny that way.
Spot on Kevin. I admit I was warming to him, after wanting him sacked after the Man City away league game. Then there was the cup, and now this absolute tripe that he is spouting about our defending, and I'm beginning to lose the hope that some better football had instilled in me. So, still undecided, but I don't expect to be called fickle when the evidence either way becomes more compelling.
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It shouldn't come as a complete surprise that people don't know the true meaning of the word "fickle" Kev. It's been used by people to mean "I don't agree with you" since that infamous night against Wycombe.
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I often think its a brummy trate that we like to argue especially re footy. H&V is this poor run goes on, may hit the peaks of the era of DOL!!!
Houiller biggest gaff was signing the contract, I dont think he will be around in the summer personally.
Looking at him on the bench on Wednesday he looked like he wanted to be on the beach in St Tropez.
Not in Manchester on a cold wednesday night.
I know we keep saying we got an easy run in, but we making hard work of it at the moment.
I dont over rate his signing, yeah bent scored 3 well done and Walker looks good.
Bradley not started more than 1 game in 2 months and Pires is over the hill.
Makoun looks good in patches but then is missing for a month.
Time will tell but I think we struggle all season now, we are firmly in a rut
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I love the "this poor run" bit that we are seeing trotted out. We have lost once, having led twice and been the better team by a mile, and yet we are on a bad run. The league game before we won 4-1. We are out the cup and people need to get to grips with that, but all in we have been better recently and the team is playing quite well in many aspects. With our best defenders back soon, i am sure that we will win the 3 matches it will take to stay up, then GH can continue the sorting.
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Piss Poor Run Ozz, we beat Blackburn, there on a shocking run
Since Jan 1 we run 3, Wigan Away a relegation outfit, Man City at home but we had one chance! and Blackburn
We drew 3, Fulham, Blackpool and Bham. All potential relegation teams
We lost against Sunderland, Bolton and Man Utd.
12 points out of 27! yippee
I would expect us to beat Blackpool, Fulham and Bham in recent seasons and draw with Sunderland at home and Bolton away.
We really have fallen away
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Alot on here don't like Houllier, that's fair enough but I have simply identified his positives, I havent said he is perfect, far from it.
He was a cock at Liverpool, abit to gobby in the media and unbelievably gave up on the FA cup. But I for one am so so glad he is here instead of Oneil.
The football is much better an less predictable and we seem to be planning for the future instead of being used as a stepping stone to a bigger club.
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tried to like him tried to be posistive with him now i can't wait until him and the GMac mute leave, been a shockin season no positives like the last days of D O'L
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Another stunning quote from Geddy Bear. Speechless.
Anybody else watch Wolves keep whipping quality balls in yesterday? uh-oh.
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He said something the other day along the lines of 'Villa fans are blaming me for the Arsenal Keeper messing up' referring to the Carling Cup Final. I hope he was misquoted because that's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.
As for gaffes, other than the Man City game, i think being happy to loan John Carew to the Baggies, a relegation rival, was one i'm glad did'nt actually happen.
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Piss Poor Run Ozz, we beat Blackburn, there on a shocking run
Since Jan 1 we run 3, Wigan Away a relegation outfit, Man City at home but we had one chance! and Blackburn
We drew 3, Fulham, Blackpool and Bham. All potential relegation teams
We lost against Sunderland, Bolton and Man Utd.
12 points out of 27! yippee
I would expect us to beat Blackpool, Fulham and Bham in recent seasons and draw with Sunderland at home and Bolton away.
We really have fallen away
Im sure Liverpool would expect to beat Blackpool home and away . Well it didnt happen.
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17 points from their last 27 and Kung Fu Kenny is a masterstroke of an appointment I might add.
I honestly wonder about the the meltdown this site would go into if Oliver Cunting Holt wrote some of the thins about us our fans do.
And I hate that sanctimonious little prick.
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Richard Dunne has played dozens of Internationals, has vast experience in the Pl, so why not get him to organise the defence?
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Because he would organise them into a trio of desserts?
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Richard Dunne has played dozens of Internationals, has vast experience in the Pl, so why not get him to organise the defence?
Because 4 years of playing for O'Neill has taught him bad habits.
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Richard Dunne has played dozens of Internationals, has vast experience in the Pl, so why not get him to organise the defence?
Because everything is Gerrards fault you know
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Can't believe this thread has run to 13 pages today on top of all the other threads where Rene is being discussed!
Edit> oops I meant 14 pages!
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He's made a lot of mistakes, therefore there's a lot to discuss.
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Richard Dunne has played dozens of Internationals, has vast experience in the Pl, so why not get him to organise the defence?
Because 4 years of playing for O'Neill has taught him bad habits.
I'd say we could do with some of those bad habits right now - such as defensive organisation, never say die attitude, clean sheets, our defenders looking dangerous in the opposition box etc.
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Right I'm not on the wind up but I am genuinely interested, what do people think the actual 'bad habits' are?
What we're we doing before that could be classed as a 'bad habit.' Try not to reply with 'Head it away it' etc, what does Houllier think we were doing wrong?!?!
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i am with Risso, he has bought the criticism on himself. Every time he opens his mouth he manages to put his foot in it. Surely any manager understands that keeping the morale of the club up is important. The fact that he is happy to criticise his players publicly is another aspect of his flawed personality. The best managers do not do that, Houlier is not in that category.
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Bayern Munich say manager Louis van Gaal will leave at the end of the season, one year before his contract is due to expire, because of "strategic differences". The 59-year-old Dutchman won the German double in his first season at Bayern and reached the Champions League final, but the club has slumped to fifth in the Bundesliga and has been eliminated from the German Cup.
Bienvenue a Birmingam, Louis! Gerard? Il est alle.
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I don't think I have EVER heard a manager blame "4-year habits" instilled by the previous incumbent for his team's shortcomings. You'd expect this sort of raving lunacy from Maradonna. Fucking straw-clutching.
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Bayern Munich say manager Louis van Gaal will leave at the end of the season, one year before his contract is due to expire, because of "strategic differences". The 59-year-old Dutchman won the German double in his first season at Bayern and reached the Champions League final, but the club has slumped to fifth in the Bundesliga and has been eliminated from the German Cup.
Bienvenue a Birmingam, Louis! Gerard? Il est alle
van Gaal is right out of the top drawer. Success in Holland, Spain, Holland and Germany behind him I would love to have him here.
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I don't think I have EVER heard a manager blame "4-year habits" instilled by the previous incumbent for his team's shortcomings. You'd expect this sort of raving lunacy from Maradonna. Fucking straw-clutching.
You havent, but what do you expect from this bloke. Nothing is his fault.
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I don't think I have EVER heard a manager blame "4-year habits" instilled by the previous incumbent for his team's shortcomings. You'd expect this sort of raving lunacy from Maradonna. Fucking straw-clutching.
You havent, but what do you expect from this bloke. Nothing is his fault.
No everything is his fault.
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He said something the other day along the lines of 'Villa fans are blaming me for the Arsenal Keeper messing up' referring to the Carling Cup Final. I hope he was misquoted because that's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.
As for gaffes, other than the Man City game, i think being happy to loan John Carew to the Baggies, a relegation rival, was one i'm glad did'nt actually happen.
"The fans have a go at me because the goalkeeper of Arsenal messes around."
"What's more important for me is your environment, and that's the chairman, the club and the players and I know what I'm doing. The chairman and Paul knew about the selection. I told them.
"We have got quality now."
"There's no excuse apart from the fact we conceded two early goals."
Le Gaffeur
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He said something the other day along the lines of 'Villa fans are blaming me for the Arsenal Keeper messing up' referring to the Carling Cup Final. I hope he was misquoted because that's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.
As for gaffes, other than the Man City game, i think being happy to loan John Carew to the Baggies, a relegation rival, was one i'm glad did'nt actually happen.
"The fans have a go at me because the goalkeeper of Arsenal messes around."
"What's more important for me is your environment, and that's the chairman, the club and the players and I know what I'm doing. The chairman and Paul knew about the selection. I told them.
"We have got quality now."
"There's no excuse apart from the fact we conceded two early goals."
Le Gaffeur
the ravings of a lunatic, sad if he thinks or even has the backing to the extent he claims. I really hope we get rid in the summer.
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Houllier has some good ideas about football but managing players egos and keeping the support onside is proving far too much for him at present. There is deluded rant after deluded rant at this stage yet we are still not clear of relegation from the worst EPL season in terms of quality that I can remember.
That was a genuinely awful Man Utd side I saw at the weekend and they are top. Their midfield is absolutely rank.
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The sermon pieces are just killing us. They need to be on the pitch at Bodymoor practising their sermons until they're sick of them.
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Let's hope it doesn't backfire on Houllier. There are a few people out there who might like to prove him wrong. It would be ironic if Carew keeps Stoke in the premiership at our expense. I wouldn't put it past MON coming back to save Blackburn as well....some interesting scenarios could play out towards the end of the season.
Having said that, if we stay up at the expense of Blackpool, Holloway is going to get crucified for having played that weakened team against us earlier in the season.
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The sermon pieces are just killing us. They need to be on the pitch at Bodymoor practising their sermons until they're sick of them.
You're preaching to the converted here.
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GH should hire from Martin Laursen, Dion Dublin and Sami Hyypia to work on our defence (and help out our attack Dublin)
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Mr houllier is taking the players away to improve spirit- they are going paintballing followed by a trip to watch spurs v ac Milan - according to today's paper.
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Mr houllier is taking the players away to improve spirit- they are going paintballing followed by a trip to watch spurs v ac Milan - according to today's paper.
That has made me feel very depressed
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Mr houllier is taking the players away to improve spirit- they are going paintballing followed by a trip to watch spurs v ac Milan - according to today's paper.
That has made me feel very depressed
I know.
Emile Heskey taking never ending shots at a gargantuan Richard Dunne. And missing by a mile.
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Who will shoot gh and Gary mac 1st I wonder?
Gerard Houllier is taking his under-pressure Aston Villa squad away on a morale-boosting bonding trip.
Villa have suffered back-to-back losses, crashing out of the FA Cup at Manchester City and losing at Bolton in the Premier League.
The 3-2 defeat at The Reebok Stadium, where Ashley Young had a penalty saved when Houllier's men were leading 2-1, has left Villa in relegation danger once more.
So boss Houllier is organising a midweek trip to a hotel and spa, where the players can enjoy activities such as paint-balling.
Houllier has also arranged for his squad to watch tomorrow's Spurs-AC Milan game on TV.
Former Lyon manager Houllier, 63, is a big fan of Champions League matches and hopes the game will inspire his squad.
Villa's next match is a huge derby at home to fellow top-flight strugglers Wolves on March 19.
Houllier's men are in a need of a tonic after star winger Marc Albrighton admitted the Bolton defeat left Villa "all devastated".
"The boys can't believe we lost the game," he said. "We had chances to win two or three games.
"We can't really understand how we didn't get the three points. I still can't get my head around the fact we didn't win the game, let alone draw it."
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Gerard-Houllier-is-taking-his-under-pressure-Aston-Villa-squad-away-on-a-morale-boosting-bonding-trip-as-the-spectre-of-relegation-begins-to-loom-again-article7116
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GH should hire from Martin Laursen to work on our defence
A thousand Yes's
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Houllier should employ [insert name of former defender] to coach the defenders, and [insert name of former striker] to coach the forwards.
Inclination or ability to do the job apparently unimportant.
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paintballing? I can see a comedy accident looming up, in a PJ and Duncan Biker Grove stylee. Just our frigging luck.
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Houllier should employ [insert name of former defender] to coach the defenders, and [insert name of former striker] to coach the forwards.
Inclination or ability to do the job apparently unimportant.
God help us if it's Steve Simms and Simon Stainrod.
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Destroy all applications made by a B.Gallagher and G.Penrice.
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An FA Cup QF place would have done wonders for team morale.
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Mr houllier is taking the players away to improve spirit- they are going paintballing followed by a trip to watch spurs v ac Milan - according to today's paper.
That has made me feel very depressed
Perhaps you need a short break, I know just the place they have a spa and you can go paint balling.
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Id hire Martin Laursen straight away, he loves the club aswell which can only help.
Does anybody know if West Ham have improved defensively since Wally Downes arrived?
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An FA Cup QF place would have done wonders for team morale.
Had that happened I doubt we'd be having this discussion too. Possibly even if we lost with a full strength team.
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I'd quite like us to hire a defensive coach with coaching credentials, as oppose to an ex-centre half who supposedly loves the club, but has no track record on the training ground.
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To be fair to Gerard about his comments, managers get 100% of the blame, when there may be many, many factors affecting the team from outside his control. I think we have to accept that managers have to blame something, as they are normally the only ones to stand up for themselves, and being as we have blamed MON for problems on and off the pitch in recent months and indeed years, why can't he aswell.
It's not his team yet. This year has been the dodgy transitional period trying to make the best of what MON left him; Houllier's first season is next season for me.
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Houllier has also arranged for his squad to watch tomorrow's Spurs-AC Milan game on TV.
Well thank God they're just watching it on TV.I've been having images of the Sky cameras panning along the row of the Villa squad as they watch Spurs put 3 past AC Milan
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I'm feeling the need to defend Gerard a little here, loads of people have mentioned the injury list but it's never been backed up with actual numbers on here that I've seen. So...
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/clubs/2/aston_villa_injuries.html (http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/clubs/2/aston_villa_injuries.html)
Scrolling down there's a few in August, so we'll start with those but it has to be remembered that we already had Delph out at that point, so we'll add that 1 to the total which comes out as 47 injuries. That's a massive number for a squad of 23 players to absorb. Add on bans and we've had a fair amount of players missing for a large chunk of the season, which can't help.
The other thing that is mentioned in the thread a few times is to say why don't we just defend corners like we did last year. The answer to that is fairly simple. The entire coaching and management team that planned that left, no one who had dealings with the first team was left. Therefore the only people who could've implemented that same defensive system are the players, but an off form Collins and an overweight Dunne had their own problems, along with Warnock who clearly didn't want to be at the club any more.
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
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GH should hire from Martin Laursen to work on our defence
A thousand Yes's
Martin Laursen might be a really shit coach though.
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
Surely the whole point of loaning him out was so he'd score some goals and get his confidence and experience up. To me that goal shows that loaning him out was a good thing not bad, but I guess if you're looking for a stick to beat the manager with anything will do.
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
Yet Houllier is the worst kind of scum for deciding to play him in the match against Man City.
So we don't want him playing and we don't want him loaned out. Gotta feel sorry for the kid.
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and being as we have blamed MON for problems on and off the pitch in recent months and indeed years, why can't he aswell.
Because the vast majority of managers just don't do it, shows lack of cojones as much as anything else.
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
Yet Houllier is the worst kind of scum for deciding to play him in the match against Man City.
So we don't want him playing and we don't want him loaned out. Gotta feel sorry for the kid.
If only there were a middle ground between playing him in a cup game, the only competition left which gave us a chance of making anything of the season, and sending him off to a team in a lower league. If only.
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GH should hire from Martin Laursen to work on our defence
A thousand Yes's
Martin Laursen might be a really shit coach though.
Just five hundred yes's then
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I'm feeling the need to defend Gerard a little here, loads of people have mentioned the injury list but it's never been backed up with actual numbers on here that I've seen. So...
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/clubs/2/aston_villa_injuries.html (http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/clubs/2/aston_villa_injuries.html)
Scrolling down there's a few in August, so we'll start with those but it has to be remembered that we already had Delph out at that point, so we'll add that 1 to the total which comes out as 47 injuries. That's a massive number for a squad of 23 players to absorb. Add on bans and we've had a fair amount of players missing for a large chunk of the season, which can't help.
The other thing that is mentioned in the thread a few times is to say why don't we just defend corners like we did last year. The answer to that is fairly simple. The entire coaching and management team that planned that left, no one who had dealings with the first team was left. Therefore the only people who could've implemented that same defensive system are the players, but an off form Collins and an overweight Dunne had their own problems, along with Warnock who clearly didn't want to be at the club any more.
Good post, I'm with you here.
He never started in a good position. To be honest he must have been a bit mental to join us in the first place....This could have been his biggest gaffe.
A team who has players hand picked to play a certain style. A closed transfer window so you can not bring anyone in to help other players adjust to a new system. Injuries finally catching up with us after a very lucky run of it and then the fringe/younger players who are out of their depth in the Premier from never having a chance.
He has made mistakes, probably even more than he even expected. I do believe it wouldn't have mattered who took the job we would be in a similar position.
I will say though he does seem to have foot in mouth disease, but that does not make him a bad manager. I just hope he turns it around and I'm still sure he will.
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47 injuries? Are you sure?
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The other thing that is mentioned in the thread a few times is to say why don't we just defend corners like we did last year. The answer to that is fairly simple. The entire coaching and management team that planned that left, no one who had dealings with the first team was left. Therefore the only people who could've implemented that same defensive system are the players, but an off form Collins and an overweight Dunne had their own problems, along with Warnock who clearly didn't want to be at the club any more.
And yet Houllier is telling us that we are defending them as we were last season.
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47 injuries? Are you sure?
Seems to stack up according to that link.
From Cuellar on August 6th through to Dunne on March 4th, cumulatively it's 47 injuries.
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47 injuries? Are you sure?
Seems to stack up according to that link.
From Cuellar on August 6th through to Dunne on March 4th, cumulatively it's 47 injuries.
Christ, that's even more than I would have thought.
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
Yet Houllier is the worst kind of scum for deciding to play him in the match against Man City.
So we don't want him playing and we don't want him loaned out. Gotta feel sorry for the kid.
What do you mean? Playing him at point instead of Heskey against City would have been fine. Playing him to replace Downing or Albrighton was mental illness.
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
Yet Houllier is the worst kind of scum for deciding to play him in the match against Man City.
So we don't want him playing and we don't want him loaned out. Gotta feel sorry for the kid.
What do you mean? Playing him at point instead of Heskey against City would have been fine. Playing him to replace Downing or Albrighton was mental illness.
Heskey was thrown around like Thai whore in jailhouse gangbang by Citeh's centre halves, Christ alone knows what they'd have done to Nathan.
Stop digging, if you're going to slag off the gaffer then at least be a bit more selective.
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47 injuries? Are you sure?
Seems to stack up according to that link.
From Cuellar on August 6th through to Dunne on March 4th, cumulatively it's 47 injuries.
Christ, that's even more than I would have thought.
That's exactly what I thought when I looked it up, scary isn't it. I'm not saying Gerard hasn't made mistakes but that many players missing during your first season is going to make things tough. When we had a few games in Jan with a near full squad to pick from we started to look well capable of pushing up the league but then we lost our defence again and have fallen back a bit. We should have some back for Wolves all being well which will hopefully make a difference again.
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I wonder what his next gaffe will be???? Dropping Bent for Heskey. Or Heskey at CB?
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
If only it were that simple, Simple.
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Gerard Gaffe number 11,147: loans out Fonz, who then scores more goals in 5 minutes than Heskey could manage in 5 matches.
If only it were that simple, Simple.
Indeed.
If only we were playing Hull City in the Championship.
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I wonder what his next gaffe will be???? Heskey at CB?
That would've been useful last weekend
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If only we were playing Hull City in the Championship.
Patience Paulie, patience!
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GH should hire from Martin Laursen to work on our defence
A thousand Yes's
Martin Laursen might be a really shit coach though.
Just five hundred yes's then
Having just seen Laursen's quote regarding NRC on Pravda, I pray he never gets the chance to work as a coach at Villa:
"He can see those runs and get forward to create chances and score goals."
Eh?! ;)