Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: alanclare on March 05, 2011, 12:04:58 PM
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A simple choice, the result of which may be of interest to those who have influence over such matters.
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GH. I've seen the style of play McLeish adopts and no thanks...
GH made a lash up midweek, but I still prefer his style of football and the way he is progressing though...
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It's an artificial choice though so rather pointless.
If Houllier goes, and I don't think he should, I don't want his replacement to be McLeish.
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A simple choice, the result of which may be of interest to those who have influence over such matters.
If you mean the club, I think we can be safe in the knowledge that they won't give a flying flook. And why should they?
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neither...
houllier is a coward who throws games, and mcleish plays some of the worst excuse for football i have ever seen...
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just a quick point - I actualy think it took a lot of courage to do what he did on Wednesday. I think he knew he'd get all this for it, but he had the courage of his convictions to go ahead and do what he thought was right anyway.
Coward? No.
Wrong? Yes.
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neither...
houllier is a coward who throws games, and mcleish plays some of the worst excuse for football i have ever seen...
This 'coward' thing. Not that I want to start this debate on this thread as well, but I don't think GH was cowardly to play that team considering the backlash he knew he'd get and the likelihood of going out. You can question his priorities and all that, but it wasn't cowardly.
Edit: John, you beat me to it.
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Houlliers trophy wins are far more impressive than Fucking 'ecks.
McLeish has won one League cup and a load of Scottish tinpot shit.
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he is a coward because as i put in the thread that was strangely closed, his most recent comments confirmed that he put out a side that wasnt the strongest available, because he didnt think we could beat the team we were facing...
that is cowardly, because he threw in the towel before a ball was kicked...
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Houllier any day. I'd rather go shopping with the Mrs than watch McLeish's 9-1-0 formation.
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If you think you're going to lose then trying anyway is a bit of 'what can we lose' decision.
Di you really think he thought 'the fans will understand' when he picked that team?
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he evidently doesnt care about the fans or what we think... thats arrogance, not bravery...
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Gérard Houllier, every day of the week.
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he evidently doesnt care about the fans or what we think... thats arrogance, not bravery...
When a manager starts picking his teams with one eye on what supporters think, that's when he's in trouble.
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he evidently doesnt care about the fans or what we think... thats arrogance, not bravery...
Or doing his job. How would you feel if he turned up where you work and started telling you how to do it? Rightly or wrongly, the decision is his to take and he took it.
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Not caring? Maybe.
But to me the easiest way out is always to do what others want/expect. It's when you go out on a limb that history really starts to judge you. MON did that and was judged infavourably as we didn't finish 4th, but if we had done Moscow would have been a footnote and viewed as a courageous decision.
What it will take for Gezza to be redeemed for Wednesday I do not know, as this seaon has nothing left other than a mid-table finish, IMO
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Houlliers trophy wins are far more impressive than Fucking 'ecks.
McLeish has won one League cup and a load of Scottish tinpot shit.
Yes you're right Houlliers trophy wins are more impresssive & ironically most of them are cup wins.
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I don't agree with this "you can't tell him how to do his job" bollocks. I'm so fucked up, that If I couldn't spout off on the internet I might become a serial killer or start going round putting dog shit through my neighbours' doors. have you thought of that?
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I don't agree with this "you can't tell him how to do his job" bollocks. I'm so fucked up, that If I couldn't spout off on the internet I might become a serial killer or start going round putting dog shit through my neighbours' doors. have you thought of that?
Haha, oh we can shout and moan and whinge and stave off becoming serial killers all we like. We just shouldn't complain if the manager doesn't do what we tell him to do.
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Or doing his job. How would you feel if he turned up where you work and started telling you how to do it? Rightly or wrongly, the decision is his to take and he took it.
i do have people turning up to my work and telling me how to do it... i take on board what they say and sometimes my designs are better for it... and sometimes i learn from their advice / comments... i am not arrogant enough to think that i know it all... although tbf, my job as a graphic designer and the job of a football manager, are worlds apart...
but one thing is for certain, if i were to design something poorly, because i didnt think that i was good enough to be able to compete for the project, then i certainly wouldnt be getting much work...
When a manager starts picking his teams with one eye on what supporters think, that's when he's in trouble.
a very valid point, and one that i would subscribe to...
however, as houlliers latest comments confirm, he did not pick his strongest team available because he did not think that the strongest 11 were good enough to beat them... he gave up before a ball was kicked, and that, is cowardly, and sends out a message to fans, players, and the whole footballing world, that we havent got the fight in us... or more accurately, as he is the one that is doing the job, he doesnt have the fight in him...
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Yes you're right Houllier's trophy wins are more impressive & ironically most of them are cup wins.
I keep telling my wife that when I was in my twenties I could go at it for seven hours without a break. I'd remind her again, but I won't be seeing her until tomorrow. She's off out to some student party I think.
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idiotic thread. A well decorated manager with total football ethics or an anti football jock currently having his ass saved by planting a beanpole on the 6yard line. pick up your toys, pick up picasso's and get back in your box...
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Houllier every single time, it's like asking would you prefer a ford focus or a mercedes.
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idiotic thread. A well decorated manager with total football ethics or an anti football jock currently having his ass saved by planting a beanpole on the 6yard line. pick up your toys, pick up picasso's and get back in your box...
interestng debating style...
although i am not quite sure i fully follow what you actually disagree with, from what i have written, considering you have specifically mentioned me...
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Neither !
Out of the two, McLeish is capable of getting a team to play as a team mind.
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idiotic thread. A well decorated manager with total football ethics or an anti football jock currently having his ass saved by planting a beanpole on the 6yard line. pick up your toys, pick up picasso's and get back in your box...
interestng debating style...
although i am not quite sure i fully follow what you actually disagree with, from what i have written, considering you have specifically mentioned me...
Debating style? I will have a reasoned debate with anyone over the merits of prioritising premiership survival over a chance of a cup, or whether our strongest team would have beaten them, or even whether the team that was out there stood a reasonable chance without the awful luck of the first 5mins. I think however, that starting a poll/thread over whether we would prefer our manager or that of our sworn enemies (whose football, incidentally, has been cited as one of the main reasons for their dwindling attendances this season) in the hope that the club will take notice is both counter-productive and as previously stated, idiotic.
I mentioned you by name, as although you are obviously a very passionate supporter you appear to be one of the main drum bangers in this witch hunt which will no doubt soon get picked up on by oliver holt and his anti villa campaign and become a main feature of the rest of our season.
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i do find the thread a little strange, but added to initially as a little bit of fun, which is how i saw the whole thread tbh (it might be serious though, i couldnt really say)... i added to it further after my original comments were highlighted, and feel that it is proper manners to answer someone when directly speaking to me, and a little mini discussion ensued...
as for me being "one of the main drum bangers in this witch hunt", i would claim that is unfair... i have made a few comments since wednesday that voiced my displeasure over the actions taken by the manager, along with many, many others, however, today, after reading direct quotes from the manager which i think are disgraceful, which merely add to actions and comments previously made by the manager, that have convinced me that he is not the right man for the job as aston villa manager... i recognise some of the good work he has done, and have made that clear elsewhere, but i dont feel that a manager at aston villa, should surrender a match that we have every chance of winning before a ball is even kicked, because the manager does not feel that we had a chance at winning with the strongest 11 available...
i thank you for recognising my passion, and to my detriment, that can sometimes boil over in a negative manner, but i do feel very strongly about recent events, and while i am happy to listen to reason, and discuss events in the hope that others can put forward their views in a reasonable and sensible manner and maybe help me see a little clearer their point of view, i dont feel that i have "chucked toys" or that i am a "drum banger in a witch hunt" in any sense...
maybe in hindsight, the discussion should have been done elsewhere...
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I maybe got the impression as i saw you had started a thread on the subject as well--your name stands out and is less instantly forgettable than the usual 'jimholteender' monikers used. Either way, Giving up before a match is against the spirit of the game, granted. I am ever the optimist but I would class GH as a realist. And again, without Bent, Collins and Cuellar I honestly dont think we would have won there. Man City are unfortunately a step up from us now and we would have to be at our best to win there (or have the rub of the green). So with a monumental effort we may have come away with a draw, had a replay to then contend with, possibly two semi final legs and a final to win the bloody thing....with only strong opposition left in the draw.
Can you honestly say our current squad (which is currently in a state of major upheaval and transition) could have dealt with that and sustained a charge up the league/not got drawn into a relegation battle?
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i cant honestly say either way, however i would have liked to have seen us at least attempt it...
if we lose when trying, i have no complaints...
but not trying, is unforgiveable...
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Neither !
Out of the two, McLeish is capable of getting a team to play as a team mind.
agreed
having said that, what could McLeish do with a good team of players with a good crowd of fans and a good stadium instead of the shite he's working with at the moment ::)
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Both shite
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Neither !
Out of the two, McLeish is capable of getting a team to play as a team mind.
agreed
having said that, what could McLeish do with a good team of players with a good crowd of fans and a good stadium instead of the shite he's working with at the moment ::)
I think he's peaked in the EPL at the Sty to be honest.
Watching us get beaten by Bolton today made me realise more than ever what a decent Manager can do.
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Id rather have Barry Fry than McLeish.
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Glorious day for both of them eh?
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Mc
Houllier any day. I'd rather go shopping with the Mrs than watch McLeish's 9-1-0 formation.
I'd rather go swimming with Michael Barrymore.
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Is there a 3rd option?
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McHoullier any day. I'd rather go shopping with the Mrs than watch McLeish's 9-1-0 formation.
I'd rather go swimming with Michael Barrymore.
I'd rather go horse riding with Christopher Reeve.
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just a quick point - I actualy think it took a lot of courage to do what he did on Wednesday. I think he knew he'd get all this for it, but he had the courage of his convictions to go ahead and do what he thought was right anyway.
Coward? No.
Wrong? Yes.
Throwing a football match is not courageous.
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he evidently doesnt care about the fans or what we think... thats arrogance, not bravery...
I'd call that strong leadership. It's just what I want from a manager.
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just a quick point - I actualy think it took a lot of courage to do what he did on Wednesday. I think he knew he'd get all this for it, but he had the courage of his convictions to go ahead and do what he thought was right anyway.
Coward? No.
Wrong? Yes.
Throwing a football match is not courageous.
Are you familiar with the phrase "having the courage of your convictions"?
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McHoullier any day. I'd rather go shopping with the Mrs than watch McLeish's 9-1-0 formation.
I would rather have an haircut by Sweeney Todd.
I would rather have an haircut by Sweeney Todd.
I'd rather go swimming with Michael Barrymore.
I'd rather go horse riding with Christopher Reeve.
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Daft thread
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Alex McCleish has made Blose into a shit version of Villa under MON. Everything about them is based on how MON set us up to play. If McCleish was manager of Villa now, we'd be a team not quite as good as our team under MON, so what's the point?
Under GH, we're now trying a new direction that involves passing a football, I'm happy to see us try that for 4 years and see where it gets us.
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Alex McCleish has made Blose into a shit version of Villa under MON. Everything about them is based on how MON set us up to play. If McCleish was manager of Villa now, we'd be a team not quite as good as our team under MON, so what's the point?
Under GH, we're now trying a new direction that involves passing a football, I'm happy to see us try that for 4 years and see where it gets us.
Are you serious 4 years!! shipping goals losing leads not competing in Cups we could be the new Forest/Leeds
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GH for me, he has made some crazy decisions but he has got the kids playing and we are playing some better football... a third option of "neither" in the poll would have been better!
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They're a lucky cup team & not much else. Can I vote again come August, as they'll be down with a new manager at the helm?
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i cant honestly say either way, however i would have liked to have seen us at least attempt it...
if we lose when trying, i have no complaints...
but not trying, is unforgiveable...
This part of the whole argument is what is getting to me, they were all first team squad members, many of whom have been being called for to have a chance in the team for the last few weeks, others are experienced pro's who should be capable of holding their own and getting a draw, the problem was we conceded very early and then got caught by 2 break away goals.
Yes we didn't really create much against city but no one is doing that currently so it's no suprise, particularly given that, after 5 mins, they were happy to defend solidly and use skill and pace on the counter to keep us on our toes.
It's not like the players didn't put shift in (other than Petrov who was woeful) or that the manager told them not to win, so we did try.
Could we have put out a stronger team - yes.
Would they have fared better - who knows.
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Tough one.
I think, on balance, it would have to be TinTin. On the proviso that GH moves in the opposite direction.
I'd then have to spoon my eyeballs out and eat them, rather than watch us kill games and defend, defend, defend like Big Eck's shower of shite.
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Is there any point to this thread? if so i'll add my own. Houllier or SAF.
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I can't believe this thread exists. Houllier if a lump if dog shit would be a better question. I could not watch that shit they play down the road!
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We have played good stuff we need to far less naive at the back.
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Alex McCleish has made Blose into a shit version of Villa under MON. Everything about them is based on how MON set us up to play. If McCleish was manager of Villa now, we'd be a team not quite as good as our team under MON, so what's the point?
Under GH, we're now trying a new direction that involves passing a football, I'm happy to see us try that for 4 years and see where it gets us.
Are you serious 4 years!! shipping goals losing leads not competing in Cups we could be the new Forest/Leeds
You mean when Forest and Leeds won lots of trophies? Yes, I agree, that would be nice.
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Houllier as manager with McCleish in his prime in our back four
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Probably Mcleish
But Mcleish was my second choice if O'Neill didn't take over all those years ago
Just like O'Neill, hes one of them managers that just seems to win things
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I'm happy with shit football / winning something or good football / respectability (i.e. Top half, some chance of europe / good cup run. O'Neill and Houllier so far have not acheived this, McLeish has for them lot. Houllier deserves next season but unless he can sort the defence out we will remain bottom half.
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If a nose wanted to dupe villa fans into talking positively about their manager whilst abusing our own then he'd start a thread like this.
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Houllier has a much better cup record and plays brilliant football. Mcleish was good at rangers, tw man league i know but he had the better over celtic and mon up there. He always made Scotland competative. I think big eck will go on to bigger and better things...
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i cant honestly say either way, however i would have liked to have seen us at least attempt it...
if we lose when trying, i have no complaints...
but not trying, is unforgiveable...
This part of the whole argument is what is getting to me, they were all first team squad members, many of whom have been being called for to have a chance in the team for the last few weeks, others are experienced pro's who should be capable of holding their own and getting a draw, the problem was we conceded very early and then got caught by 2 break away goals.
Yes we didn't really create much against city but no one is doing that currently so it's no suprise, particularly given that, after 5 mins, they were happy to defend solidly and use skill and pace on the counter to keep us on our toes.
It's not like the players didn't put shift in (other than Petrov who was woeful) or that the manager told them not to win, so we did try.
Could we have put out a stronger team - yes.
Would they have fared better - who knows.
houllier is the one making statements that our strongest 11 werent good enough to beat them, and that he didnt want a replay...
that suggests to me that as he didnt think the stronest 11 were good enough, then the weaker players (in his opinion), obviously werent good enough, therefore to go with the weaker 11 means that he didnt try...
thats certainly how i see it anyway...
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this is not a new thread! It was first started many months ago. McLeish doesn't lose by all that much!
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But we were absolutely fucking terrible when this thread was made and they had just won the cup and were looking safe.
And Houllier still won!
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The thread was started in April, with not too many games left of the season. It proves that emotions and opinions change like the wind. Have faith..
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The thread was started in April, with not too many games left of the season. It proves that emotions and opinions change like the wind. Have faith..
Can you read? It was started on 5th March. And this is someone who would agree with you general sentiment!