Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: DeKuip on March 04, 2011, 05:46:44 PM
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Having had two days to calm down and reflect on Wednesday night's decision to pull out of the FA Cup I'm still seething. Nothing has annoyed me more as a Villa fan since Moscow. I've even given my son's mate my ticket for Bolton because I just haven't got the appetite for it now. Two days on and no club apology is an absolute disgrace.
I'm not anti-Houllier, I've enjoyed watching us become a better footballing side over recent months.
My concerns, however, are of future club/supporter relationships. What will be our targets and incentives next season? WHAT HOPE WILL THE CLUB GIVE US FROM NOW ON? Why bother with a season ticket?
1. Will we challenge for the league title? No chance. it's difficult to see any clubs other than the usual ever competing for that again. I accept that.
2. A Champions League place? Unlikely, it would take further massive investment to break into that group, and even that would be one hell of a gamble.
3. Chase a Europa League place? Hardly going to excite fans anymore after the club's attitude to that competition has been demonstrated in each of the last three seasons. Great trips to Vienna, Hamburg, Prague etc but we didn't see anything near a first choice XI in any of those games. Our best players bust a gut to get into Europe and then get rested when the games come around.
4. Mid-table prize money money? Of interest to the club accountants but going into March and April with nothing serious to play for doesn't excite fans or bring in big crowds.
5. Staying up? That is a pre-season target for newly promoted clubs, it shouldn't be where we're setting our sights.
So what does that leave? The two domestic cups. Supporters get excited by cup draws, good cup runs, the chance of getting to Wembley. Whether you're a fan of the Villa, Walsall or Tamworth you look forward to a cup draw.
Players dream of playing in finals, winning medals, lifting cups etc.
One of the great joys of being a football fan is the anticipation of a big game, the way you look forward to it. There's also the hope we all start the season with. The cup draws and the "Will this be our year?" dreams. Not only fans, but players too I expect.
But how can we get excited about cup draws next season now? As with the Europa League the club has now shown that it sees cup games merely as a way of blooding youngsters and giving squad players a run out.
Season ticket holders will be insulted by having the Cup Scheme pushed onto us again with the promise of those who attend cup games get priority at Wembley. Nowhere in the small-print does it say that our manager may elect to withdraw us from the cup once Wembley's within smelling distance.
Like a lot of people I guess, I have a season ticket but can't get to every game, and the odd occasion my priorities are elsewhere (maybe 2 or 3 of the Sunday games) I give my season ticket to a friend to use. So I don't save anything by paying for the whole season up front, but the main reason I keep renewing is that I know should we reach a semi-final or final I will get a ticket at face value rather than via a tout.
For as long as I've been old enough to read the cup results I've started every season with the believe that it might be our year in the FA Cup. I was born a few years after we last won the FA Cup and in my half century on this planet we've reached one final - and now we've officially stopped trying.
If the club is now prioritising Premier League place money over silverware then maybe I'll just buy my tickets for league games on a game-by-game basis (which is no hassle in the days of the internet), and go along when it suits me. No need to bother with the cups now that the club isn't bothered, unless we get an an away draw that sounds like good fun. And why pay 30-odd quid (plus travel, parking etc) to be an extra in the background of a TV show on a cold winter's day (or Monday night) when there's the warmth and comfort of the local pub or living room.
All in all I'll hopefully enjoy watching us play some good football but I won't run round the bullring naked if we finish 9th instead 10th, or 14th instead of 15th. And I'll continue to enjoy watching us nuture young players who will then move on elsewhere to fulfil the dreams they've worked their balls off for.
As I commented in a post after Wednesday's game - did no-one at the club learn the PR lessons of Moscow? Did no-one say to the new manager when he was appointed that the disrespect shown to the name of Aston Villa and Villa fans by that Moscow decision was something that should never ever be repeated.
The manager himself commented on the fantastic support of the 5,000 plus fans who went to Sheffield Utd in the 3rd round, and we sold more tickets for 5th round tie at Man City than we did for our league game there a few weeks ago, despite this being live on ITV. Does that not tell anyone anything?
The final insult of this sorry week came today when I read that the manager's comments on Richard Dunne's injury were something like "FORTUNATELY we only have two games in the next four weeks". I wonder why that is?
Good luck to those going to Bolton. If the rested players don't perform I expect there will be a big backlash. If we play well will fans be travelling home thinking how great it is to be up another few league places, or will they be thinking "If only...."
Despite what the manager thinks, our team is good enough to have finished top half and given the FA Cup a good go.
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Why should the club apologise just because the manager didn't play the team that people wanted?
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Shit, sorry I didn't realise I'd written so much until i posted it. Apologies for boring anyone reading my ramble - but at least it's off my chest. Cheaper than therapy.
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I think we should move on from it now, we need a win tomorrow, that's the most important thing.
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Good post, and i share the sentiments. I do honestly believe though if we were sat ten or so points above the relagation zone, we would have put out a full team. Perhaps GH is concerned with the upturn in results of Wet Spam and the Dogheads, so much so that he feels it was a neccessary step to rest players. I don't intend to defend him as such, as im as annoyed as everyone, but in realistic terms, were we likely to get a win at eastlands?
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In defence of the club, they didn't ask us to thank them when they shelled out £20m for bent the other week
Weds still pisses me off mind simply because it was a poor, cowardly decision by GH
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agree with you wholeheartedly i'm still pissed off, and even more so with GH still thinking it was a good idea, he's here to stay well I hope not, he's brought nothing to us apart from pissing me and others off
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Why should the club apologise just because the manager didn't play the team that people wanted?
I'm with this. Sorry if it's not what people want to read. I will also not apologise.
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Why bother with a season ticket?
Because it doesn't include cup games?
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In defence of the club, they didn't ask us to thank them when they shelled out £20m for bent the other week
The General was on hear moaning about the low crowd for Bent's debut. I'm afraid that I think the current owners just don't "get" English football.
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Once again dekuip an extremely good post and I agree with many of your sentiments- it speaks volumes for the chances of keeping the likes of ash here, good players want to play in big games and win things and I would have no qualms with any player who left in a quest to win things elsewhere , but now we must put it behind us and hopefully get a good result tomorrow at the end of a quite dreadful week.
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I'm not going to renew my season ticket next year, let alone be in the cup scheme. Football is shit, we ain't gonna win the league, we won't finish in the European Chumpions League, and if we do get into Europe by some miracle we'll only leave our best players out.
With Houllier, we're destined to spend our footballing life battled it out for those precious points to finish somewhere between 9th and 15th. It's dull, it's boring, it's predictable.
£18m on Bent shows our efforts to succeed I hear some of you saying, i'm sorry, it won't make a bit of difference when Ashley buggers off in the summer no doubt shouting the 'want to win trophies' line. After Wednesday I don't blame him, we're going to win nothing and he has no love of the club.
At least my golf handicap will improve next year.
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Good post DeKuip.
Why should the club apologise just because the manager didn't play the team that people wanted?
Bazz. Are you deliberately trying to be obtuse? It's like going to Ratatouille's 3 Michelin-star restaurant, only to be told the rat has decided to send out for some sandwiches.
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I think we should move on from it now
Why should we? This has upset supporters not only in the context of being let down by the club on this occasion, but it casts doubt over having reasons to follow the club in future seasons. As has been stated, challenging for the league in the forseeable future is a doubtful proposition at best, so what is there to go for other than the cups? But if Villa don't take the cups seriously, are we going to be left hoping Villa get 7th place instead of 8th? As the post states, great news if you're an accountant, not so good if you aren't.
Until we get answers to these questions why should we move on?
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God help them when we get a home draw in the cup next season, what incentive is there to go and watch? I think some people have misjudged the level of anger over this and the feeling of utter emptyness some of us have been left with - quite frankly it stinks, and I pray we win tomorrow and get some kind of pleasure back.
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A good post and sums up my feelings exactly, I thought I would've moved on from it by now but it still leaves a bitter taste, im hoping after tomorrows game that i'll be over it
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sometimes i honestly believe some people live on a different planet! An apology! c'mon it's never going to happen is it! why should you get a season ticket?? BECAUSE YOU LOVE ASTON VILLA! and if one tough season or a bad decision by the manager makes you question why you should get a season ticket then perhaps you should take the short trip across the city with the rest of the knuckledraggers that only appear when their club(if you can call it that) is doing well!
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sometimes i honestly believe some people live on a different planet! An apology! c'mon it's never going to happen is it! why should you get a season ticket?? BECAUSE YOU LOVE ASTON VILLA! and if one tough season or a bad decision by the manager makes you question why you should get a season ticket then perhaps you should take the short trip across the city with the rest of the knuckledraggers that only appear when their club(if you can call it that) is doing well!
That argument is fine for the pub after nineteen pints of WKD, but you'll have to do better on here.
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sometimes i honestly believe some people live on a different planet! An apology! c'mon it's never going to happen is it! why should you get a season ticket?? BECAUSE YOU LOVE ASTON VILLA! and if one tough season or a bad decision by the manager makes you question why you should get a season ticket then perhaps you should take the short trip across the city with the rest of the knuckledraggers that only appear when their club(if you can call it that) is doing well!
I will, and have, always bought a season ticket following bad seasons. It's not the fact the lost the game its the fact that we threw it.
If we'd played our best team and lost 5-0 on Wednesday I'd have got over it by now.
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I suppose you could argue, if the club doesn't take the cup seriously then why should the fans ?
DeKiup , very good post.
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I dont think you will get an apology straight away.
I went to watch us lose 3-0 away to watford in 1969 and that was really shite. I am still waiting for an official apology from the club and havent given up hopes of a refund.
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I think once you leave the dream world that you're in and realise that GH has basically had to start from scratch rebuilding everything MON f'd up when he jumped ship, you'll see that it's a work in progress.I agree one hundred percent he he ballsed up big time on wednesday, but we have been slowly improving and will continue to do so! Give them a chance, winging and moaning asking for an apology every time we lose play bad isn't gonna help anything! I hate to say Rome wasn't built in a day but hey...
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sometimes i honestly believe some people live on a different planet! An apology! c'mon it's never going to happen is it! why should you get a season ticket?? BECAUSE YOU LOVE ASTON VILLA! and if one tough season or a bad decision by the manager makes you question why you should get a season ticket then perhaps you should take the short trip across the city with the rest of the knuckledraggers that only appear when their club(if you can call it that) is doing well!
That argument is fine for the pub after nineteen pints of WKD, but you'll have to do better on here.
I don't think judging someone like that because they happen to be passionate about their football club is fair. Optimism is not a crime. An apology from the club would make us a laughing stock. I for one, for what its worth, feel that this is not as bad as Moscow, and that Houllier is doing a good job. This did show poor judgement, of course, but I feel that given time, Houllier's methods will bring positive results. Any manager we have will make bad decisions and this kind of hysteria will only unsette the club and make it a much less attractive prospect for managers.
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
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In defence of the club, they didn't ask us to thank them when they shelled out £20m for bent the other week
The General was on hear moaning about the low crowd for Bent's debut. I'm afraid that I think the current owners just don't "get" English football.
Sorry didn't realise that, thought the general had disappeared since the going got tough ? So he pops back when he feels like it ie. After the Mancity win
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
My sentiments exactly.
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The way to show your disgust is to boycott the first home cup game of next season. A 10,000 crowd will really focus their attention.
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This apology you're wanting, could you perhaps be a bit clearer and clarify which players exactly you'd like our manager to apologise for playing?
Just so I can be clear on which players are to have their confidence completely destroyed in the media spotlight. Is it just the youngsters in their first season / making their debuts you were unhappy about, or the experienced pros too?
People are only pissed, and understandably so, because we lost. If we'd won up there this place would not be full of posts about the disgraceful way in which we progressed to the quarter-finals, would it?
If GH wants to come out an apologise for putting weaker players into the side, then fine, but I certainly don't want him to do so.
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Houllier is just a walking disaster and stumbles from one crisis to another, he's doing more damage than good and really should go in May
It just hasn't worked out for him here
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I'm still gutted by the result and the team he put out but not only that i get blown away by a sexy Italian barmaid in Covent Garden just don't get any better does it.
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I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
I was planning on seeing our strongest team have a go at Citeh. I wouldn't call for an apology but Houllier was taking the piss out of the FA cup tie we, as supporters, were hoping to win
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
Are you REALLY a Villa fan ??
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I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
I was planning on seeing our strongest team have a go at Citeh. I wouldn't call for an apology but Houllier was taking the piss out of the FA cup tie we, as supporters, were hoping to win
I agree the same team that battered Blackburn in the 2nd half to build on the confidence and have a go at a City team that didnt have Tevez in. He then made things worse by bringing on some of the players he was resting !!!
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An apology is a little steep, hopefully they give the fans their reward tomorrow!
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
Are you REALLY a Villa fan ??
I'm sure he is. Are you?
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
.............. every year for the past 54 I have been following the club home and away
in the hope that one day I can enjoy the feeling experienced by my father and his father in winning
the world renown Football Association Cup.
I've come within touching distance a few times but suffered heartache against Wolves, Liverpool
and Chelsea (twice) but still I believe every year will be 'our year'
I've been priviledged to meet several members of the '57 winning team all have agreed lifting that
trophy is 'special'
There have been times when we have lost to the better team, not turned up on the day, but
last Wednesday was the first time I can recall throwing in the towel before a ball is kicked-
I hope that will be the last time (although Mr Houllier has stated he would do the same in
similar circumstances)
Call me a Drama Queen if you like but the reaction by Villa supporters since the Eastlands
surrender would suggest there are a considerable number of us?
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Exactly how many fans did we have at man city as I've just read an article saying"Villa's 900 travelling fans were unhappy". I thought we sold at least 3 grand?
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Exactly how many fans did we have at man city as I've just read an article sayingnullVilla's 900 travelling fans were unhappynull. I thought we sold at least 3 grand?
We'd sold 2k in advance and a few paid on the night.
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
Are you REALLY a Villa fan ??
I'm sure he is. Are you?
Nope, I just pretend !
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In defence of the club, they didn't ask us to thank them when they shelled out £20m for bent the other week
Weds still pisses me off mind simply because it was a poor, cowardly decision by GH
I don't understand your use nof the word "cowardly". I think GH was brave to set up the way he did - he risked putting back the development of players like Bradley and Herd; he risked placing enormous pressure on those he left out to make an extraordinary contribution at Bolton (not an easy place to go now that Coyle has them playing real football); he put himself in direct conflict with the fans.
Let's be clear, GH knew he was hanging himself out to dry but still did it. For that he deserves at least some respect.
I'm still pissed off that he conceded a game that was winnable and had some real upside benefits (a game against Reading and possible semi-final / final at Wembley).
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
.............. every year for the past 54 I have been following the club home and away
in the hope that one day I can enjoy the feeling experienced by my father and his father in winning
the world renown Football Association Cup.
I've come within touching distance a few times but suffered heartache against Wolves, Liverpool
and Chelsea (twice) but still I believe every year will be 'our year'
I've been priviledged to meet several members of the '57 winning team all have agreed lifting that
trophy is 'special'
There have been times when we have lost to the better team, not turned up on the day, but
last Wednesday was the first time I can recall throwing in the towel before a ball is kicked-
I hope that will be the last time (although Mr Houllier has stated he would do the same in
similar circumstances)
Call me a Drama Queen if you like but the reaction by Villa supporters since the Eastlands
surrender would suggest there are a considerable number of us?
Spot on Mozza.
Wednesday was truly embarrassing.
Of course I don't expect an apology, but to take it 'lying down' is just plain apathy.
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This apology you're wanting, could you perhaps be a bit clearer and clarify which players exactly you'd like our manager to apologise for playing?
Just so I can be clear on which players are to have their confidence completely destroyed in the media spotlight. Is it just the youngsters in their first season / making their debuts you were unhappy about, or the experienced pros too?
People are only pissed, and understandably so, because we lost. If we'd won up there this place would not be full of posts about the disgraceful way in which we progressed to the quarter-finals, would it?
If GH wants to come out an apologise for putting weaker players into the side, then fine, but I certainly don't want him to do so.
It's not about individuals. We played well and won last saturday and confidence was high. It was an FA Cup 5th round game away to a team who were widely reported as looking tired and jaded three days earlier after drawing at home to Fulham and were playing their 5th game in 15 days (we'd played one in that time). They were also struggling with injuries.
Bent and Baker had to be replaced obviously, but was there the need for such wholesale changes? Not if the intention was to go and get a result... and that is the point - we didn't give it our best shot, and I find that unnacceptable.
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The way to show your disgust is to boycott the first home cup game of next season. A 10,000 crowd will really focus their attention.
On the contrary. I would love us to get back to the days when you got 10,000 more than the league game when you played a club in the FA Cup from your division.
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In defence of the club, they didn't ask us to thank them when they shelled out £20m for bent the other week
The General was on hear moaning about the low crowd for Bent's debut. I'm afraid that I think the current owners just don't "get" English football.
Or, alternately, some of the fans are fairweather... To-may-tos, to-mah-tos. Not talking about those on here or other sites, of course, as everyone here is passionate enough that they would spend there time on such a site. But surely there are fringe fans who pay attention when the club does well and are willing to pay the money then (but, perhaps, only occasionally) but not when the team is not riding high. That plus the economy equals low attendances. That said, the club needs the money that matchday brings and lower gates make it more difficult to compete. A vicious cycle...
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The way to show your disgust is to boycott the first home cup game of next season. A 10,000 crowd will really focus their attention.
That is correct, and is never going to happen, because this is a football club and they have the most loyal customer base possible. By January this will be a distant memory and we'll all be thinking "this is our year" and paying our money to watch us beat Blackburn
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the club needs the money that matchday brings and lower gates make it more difficult to compete.
Putting out your best team would make it easier to compete. It all depends if you really want to.
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the club needs the money that matchday brings and lower gates make it more difficult to compete.
Putting out your best team would make it easier to compete. It all depends if you really want to.
I am unsure to whom the "you" refers in the above statement, but there is a general bemusement amongst some in the club at the choices made for Wednesday's match, I would imagine.
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I'm still gutted by the result and the team he put out but not only that i get blown away by a sexy Italian barmaid in Covent Garden just don't get any better does it.
Was she Mafiosi?
Has this post reached us from beyond the grave?
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
Second this.
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I dont think you will get an apology straight away.
I went to watch us lose 3-0 away to watford in 1969 and that was really shite. I am still waiting for an official apology from the club and havent given up hopes of a refund.
Your postal order for five bob,is in the post !
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I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me ...
Are you telling me that Houllier was PLANNING to win the tie with that team?
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In defence of the club, they didn't ask us to thank them when they shelled out £20m for bent the other week
The General was on hear moaning about the low crowd for Bent's debut. I'm afraid that I think the current owners just don't "get" English football.
Or, alternately, some of the fans are fairweather... To-may-tos, to-mah-tos. Not talking about those on here or other sites, of course, as everyone here is passionate enough that they would spend there time on such a site. But surely there are fringe fans who pay attention when the club does well and are willing to pay the money then (but, perhaps, only occasionally) but not when the team is not riding high. That plus the economy equals low attendances. That said, the club needs the money that matchday brings and lower gates make it more difficult to compete. A vicious cycle...
Fairweather or not, it's up to the club to entice the fans back. The latest accounts show another disappointing set of results, and events like Wednesday will only make the board's job a lot harder. You may think my comment was harsh on Mr Lerner, but one of the main things owners have to get right is appointing the right boss. I've seen nothing to suggest that Houllier is anything like the right boss. If we do have fair-weather fans as you suggest, then chucking the towel in in the FA Cup is the quickest way to ensure those floating voters vote with their feet.
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If we'd played our best team and lost 5-0 on Wednesday I'd have got over it by now.
That's how I feel. Like everyone else on here under 60, I've only ever known a season to include a Cup defeat, and in that time I've witnessed all manner of Cup exits, from the unlucky to the inept, but up until Wednesday, what they all had in common was they'd happened with us fielding our strongest available team.
Whilst the exit always hurts, I can ultimately accept the other team being better, I can accept that sometimes the rub of the green/big decisions going against you, I can accept the collective bad day at the office, I can even accept Lions being led by donkeys, in the sense of the manager getting the tactics wrong.
What I can not and will never accept is a manager almost deliberately setting out to get us knocked out.
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I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me ...
Are you telling me that Houllier was PLANNING to win the tie with that team?
I will bet you that between GH, Gary Mac, and Villa legend Sid Cowans that they didn't give up on the result before the game just because they named that team. That just like Man City, we rested a few players, most notably Ash and Downing (two players who's commitment has questioned by some on this site in the last few months), we weren't just throwing away the game. And that the 8 changes from Blackburn were not all made by choice which also seems to be being ignored by the angry mob.
The team we put out, admitedly not being our very best was hardly anything like the Villa academy side now was it? The fact that the senior pros didn't play to a certain standard says more to me about their quality and future at the club than it does about the decision to play them in the first place in my opinion.
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*Another Houllier rant *
I was all up for going out of the cup early doors - just get out of it as soon as possible and concentrate on the league (I notice a few people on here defending our inept manager who had a bit of a moan at me because 'we always want to see Villa win, that's what proper fans do!' Bit of a change of opinion there lads.)
However...
What I can't understand is why he comes out with 'It's a big priority' bull shit before the game. If he just said 'Look were doing shite in league, we must concentrate on that' then there would be no problem but by saying what he did he has made a dogs dinner out of this situation.
Furthermore why didn't he just play the team that would of us give us the best chance of winning, if this was a priority? 'Ashely/ Stewart...might get injured then we won't compete' shite that some fools have been on about. Why then doesn't this logic apply to our only senior goalkeeper and our only two fit center halves (now we have lost Dunne!) if we weren't bothering to even try with this match then why risk them? Does not make sense.
If we played our first team and actually gave ourselves a chance but still got a beating no one would of give a shit. We are not expected to beat them so why not just give it a go? After the performance at Blackburn Geddy had the chance of building on improving opinions. Somehow he has made a 'win-win' situation into a loss.
Now today he has said 'They (Villa fans) blame me for an Arsenal keeper messing up!' Bloody hell, I reckon the fella wants us to hate him.
'Don't come down' 'You're not a proper fan' 'Fuck off then' or whatever replies (if any) are coming, I'd just like to say I'm a paying costumer of Aston Villa and have been for a long time. I like you want the best for Villa, Gerrard Houllier is not.
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Verily, I do believe that some of the posters on here could get home to find Houllier doing their partner up the wrong 'un and they would ask him if he fancied a beer afterwards.
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I went to watch us lose 3-0 away to watford in 1969 and that was really shite. I am still waiting for an official apology from the club and havent given up hopes of a refund
Me and Alex Alex Cropley got pissed and wrote a 9 page letter to Graham Taylor after we surrendered at home to Wimbledon in 1989 ( in the cup?). We really gave it to him with both barrels. He never replied.
Can't remember if we posted it.
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I wrote a letter to Sir GT and the Meaning Evil on the day he got booed whilst speaking to the fans on the pitch. I received a reply posted on the day he resigned.
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Verily, I do believe that some of the posters on here could get home to find Houllier doing their partner up the wrong 'un and they would ask him if he fancied a beer afterwards.
Agree entirely. This is nothing to do with sour grapes at being beaten. I am now in the fuck off GH and as long as you are there I ain't going to be no way back for me.
When Herbert was at his worst I only went to away matches, now I am so glad I didn't go with my City mates on Wednesday and I am not sure I will go to any home or away for a while. Like a few have said, I have seen us at our worst and supported the club through thick and thin, but ever since it became the Preeemiership, I just cannot get enthusiastic.
I am just so pissed off.
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I'm hoping an apology will come in the way of his resignation or sacking after what I can only see as another defeat tomorrow.
Nothing other than a Victory tomorrow is acceptable.
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Buzzard team selection aside, it was clear to all within the first few minutes that fonz and herd were in trouble on the right and under wave after wave of pressure. Yet GH and His assistant did sweet fuck all to address it. I really think they'd given up on the cup as soon as that draw was made
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what a complete load of nonsense. I'm guessing that some people will be asking for the club to send out emails, letters, surveys etc to all and sundry ahead of games so that people can provide their best line up and formation. I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me what a bunch of drama queens we have on here.
Nail on the head, was you on here on weds? I was getting the anti-depressants out for everyone...
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i am not expecting an apology, the fact that conditions have been created so soon after the Anfield fiasco render any attempt by the club to respond to the fans anger as weak. This is further evidence that we have a walking PR disaster as manager and a bloke that is so totally out of touch with the traditions and history of the club.
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I'm hoping an apology will come in the way of his resignation or sacking after what I can only see as another defeat tomorrow.
Nothing other than a Victory tomorrow is acceptable.
Purlease.......
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I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me ...
Are you telling me that Houllier was PLANNING to win the tie with that team?
Are you telling us he was planning on losing it?
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i am not expecting an apology, the fact that conditions have been created so soon after the Anfield fiasco render any attempt by the club to respond to the fans anger as weak. This is further evidence that we have a walking PR disaster as manager and a bloke that is so totally out of touch with the traditions and history of the club.
This, a million times this.
In the space of 6 months he's managed to create, all by his own doing, that *can't find enough expletives in the world to describe it* 'performance' at Liverpool, ReserveCup-gate, Villa are a 8th-12th placed club malarkey and asked for a sabbatical from his former employer before he took the job.
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I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me ...
Are you telling me that Houllier was PLANNING to win the tie with that team?
Are you telling us he was planning on losing it?
Of course he was, he hates Villa, everything he stands for, how dare he chose the team he wants when he's the manager cnut
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I know Wednesday didn't go to plan, but fuck me ...
Are you telling me that Houllier was PLANNING to win the tie with that team?
Are you telling us he was planning on losing it?
No, I was asking Toronto if he thought playing away to a big, fuck-off money side with that team sheet was planning to win.
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Mark my words! It will all end in tears with that man.
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No, I was asking Toronto if he thought playing a big fuck-off money side away with that team sheet was planning to win.
Well, I thought we would lose whatever team we put out and so it proved. Maybe that's why I'm not as upset about it?
Again, I don't agree with the decision, but he probably thought that team had as good a chance of getting a result as any other. Crawley should have beaten Man Ure the week before, Leyton Oreint drew with Arsenal. Are our second string worse than those sides?
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I never expect Villa to lose ever. I always think we're in with a shout - it may be tough but we could swing it.
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Mark my words! It will all end in tears with that man.
Tears of joy when he phucks off.
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I never expect Villa to lose ever. I always think we're in with a shout - it may be tough but we could swing it.
Well obviously from the heart, yes. From the head, no, not always.
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Good initial post which mirrors my own addressed to Mr Lerner - I have updated that same post tonight after having time to refelect.
I am only surmising here but there may just be a generational thing here - us older posters find the idea of "throwing" a game as being abhorant and would walk over broken glass to see our club win the FA Cup.
Yes we should be patient and allow a manager sufficient time to make his impact however I feel that Houllier has gone the O`Leary route by disrespecting the club with ill- thought quotes or throw away comments. The only way to get the fans back onside is to win something - quite clearly his actions Wednesday show he is not arsed.
As I state elsewhere I am not soo much after an apology but a statement from the owner as to just what our aspirations are now - and not just another soundbite from General Krulak
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If we were in the middle of a fixture pile up, with a huge match at the weekend I'd have maybe understood a bit more. But that decision was indefensible, and Houllier's pathetic attempt at self justification (Delph has an England U21 cap!) was treating the customers like idiots.
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Houllier apologises!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/8362600/Gerard-Houllier-says-sorry-to-Aston-Villa-supporters-for-FA-Cup-selection-fiasco.html
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"I know what I am doing."
You don't know your arse from your elbow would be a more accurate appraisal of your managerial abilities.
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That article seems to start with it's middle.
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Gérard Houllier says sorry to Aston Villa fans over weakened side (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/04/gerard-houllier-apology-aston-villa)
More in the Gurniaud.
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FFS Bolton away - a cup final- The bloke is a word removed.
Had not got the guts to tell the fans before they travelled - then refund them you Cnut !!!!
His ramblings are getting ever more bizzare - get rid after the Liverpool game or better still at half time !!!!
Will get the biggest cheer of the season.
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"Bolton is a difficult travel"
Sarunyu to the thread please.
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Dekuip well said.
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Apologising makes him look even more foolish I think. A very bad move.
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He cannot win though.
If he doesn't apologise he looks like he doesn't give a fuck and is stubborn but if he does he looks, as you say, foolish.
Though, it would be the absolute best case scenario if he didn't have to apologise for gaffes like this or his behaviour against Liverpool.
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The thing about it is you would envisage he should be sharp enough to not keep on getting into these kind of pickles in the first place.
Does anyone really need to be told that returning to Anfield like some tourist and saying the things he did post-game would be a bad move? Same with picking an uncompetitive side against Citeh in our biggest game of the season.
He's a apologised and fair play to him, I suppose. Takes a big man and all that. But is this going to be the way of it? He keeps on making monumental phuck ups, but wait, it's OK, he's acknowledged it now and that particular phuck up won't happen again. It will be a different type of one next time.
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our biggest game of the season.
This is the crux of the matter. To us it is, but we're becoming a minority.
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Just thinking where we are in the 5 th year of randys reign- league position similar now to when he arrived, in a relegation battle, many fans split over the the manager, best players leaving each summer in recent years, crowds starting to drop worryingly and record amount of debt revealed- it's hardly the great dream many of us envisaged is it really?
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Difficult travel ? M60, M62, M61, part of a piss
Come on lets funeral Bolton and we'll be on for top 6 finale
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When Hou came to B6 as manager, several Liverpool fans said to me that he is a v conservative / cautious / defensive manager. Given the apparent need to conserve funds and in the likely absence of massive funding during the next close-season other than that geenrated from sales, he has clearly decided that he cannot afford to dally with the drop from the P'ship.
He therefore, bravely IMHO, set up a team for Wednesday's game to preserve the key players for the next league game and so doing put at risk the result of Wednesday's game. Massively.
In doing so he has potentially undermined the confidence of players like Bradley and Herd; he has massively pumped up the expectations for the Bolton game putting enormous pressure on Young, Downing, NRC et al. And he has further alienated the fans.
I'm disappointed that he's apologised: he should have the courage of his decisions to defend them. I'm disappointed we went with the approach we did on Wednesday - I think the tie was there to win and the potential upsides were very attractive. It saddens me that he sees a trip to Bolton as a "cup final" - Bolton are good but come on FFS!
But ...
... we may well find that Hou is the man for the current circumstances and I'd still give him the Summer to sort stuff out.
There; I've said it.
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Just out of interest, how many more times, do you think, will Houllier have to apologise to us this season? I'll go for two.
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Apology Nr 1 - Verbal Warning
Apology Nr 2 - Written Warning
Apology Nr 3 - ??
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What is concerning me is that there is a trend developing here: Houllier f*cks up. Houllier stubbonly defends his f*ck up. Media/fan pressure builds up. Houllier apologises to the fans.
If it had just been the Anfield f*ck up, I think in the fullness of time that apology would have been accepted. He was a returning ex-manager with a history of supporting Liverpool dating back to his student days. I at least could understand the context.
However, there comes a time when an apology becomes meaningless. A bit like the child who thinks that just saying sorry makes it all right, but then goes away and repeats the behaviour that made the apology necessary in the first place. When that happens, you have to deal effectively with the behaviour itself. Or, in Houllier's case, Randy needs to tell him in no uncertain terms, not to ever put himself in the situation again where he has disrespected the Club's traditions and the fans' expectations and loyalties.
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It just gets worse:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/232754/Aston-Villa-boss-Gerard-Houllier-We-can-t-beat-Manchester-City
At this rate he won`t be allowed to do press conferences - just as worrying is the club`s attempt to re-write what was said.
Quite frankly the club is starting to look a little shambolic.
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This is the Express, so I expect spin, but the quotes stand. It's one thing for our players to be mentally beaten before they even walk onto a pitch against the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, etc. To be honest, that's what we've become accustomed to. But for the manager to admit that we have no chance of beating these teams - publicly - is totally and utterly reprehensible.
If Hodgson had said that at Liverpool he'd have been murdered. How many more teams can't we beat? And, er, what's the fucking point in competing? He's banging the final nails into his own coffin like an undertaker on PCP. The bloke is a walking catastrophe, has been from the beginning, and sooner or later we'll have to get rid in ugly circumstances. The question is when?
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Just posted this elsewhere
"What worries me is that at his peak he won a fair few trophies at Liverpool and I would imagnine his philosophy was completely different then - has he also lost the will to win- watching him and his sidekick on the bench Wednesday there was not a spark of desire, committment, passion or even interest.
The man is sending out the wrong vibes - we are beaten before we even kick a ball.....lets hope we stumble over the line and stay up and then get rid of this imbecile as soon as possible and hire a hungry young manager with desire, passion and above respect for this club."
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I'm convinced he wants a pay-out / top up to his pension fund then he'll happily walk.
He does not have his heart in this job or club
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It seems to me as though people want Houllier to fail, he has made a few mistakes and it's like people have marked his cards and thats it.
We need to relax and stop jumping all over him when certain things don't go right.
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It seems to me as though people want Houllier to fail, he has made a few mistakes and it's like people have marked his cards and thats it.
We need to relax and stop jumping all over him when certain things don't go right.
"There are non so blind as those who cannot see"
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It seems to me as though people want Houllier to fail, he has made a few mistakes and it's like people have marked his cards and thats it.
We need to relax and stop jumping all over him when certain things don't go right.
The trouble is, hardly anything's gone right, and most of it is of his own doing.
Do you think it's acceptable to publicly admit that we can't beat Manchester City, regardless of the team we put out?
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Most clubs would've sacked him on results alone. Add the continuous PR blunders and I'm amazed he's still here. Amazed.
What on earth is he thinking about saying these things publicly? Utter madness. What he's saying now is really no different from O Leary (we can't compete / sugar bags etc etc) and yet people seem keen to see what happens next season. It's bizarre quite frankly.
Shit, shit, shit season. I can't wait for it to end.
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Well since Gerrard has been here he has got rid of the useless Sidwell, Carew, Ireland, Davies and has dropped the shite Petrov and Warnock.
He has then bought a 20+ goal a season striker, a quality Midfielder in Makoun and has improved the way we play.
We have had an absolute nightmare with injuries and think he needs abit more credit than he gets.
I'm for one glad we dont have a bunch of lazy money grabbers in our team, meaning our young lads don't get a chance.
Yeah he has fucked up a few times, but he will have learned and I am really excited about next season.
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Well since Gerrard has been here he has got rid of the useless Sidwell, Carew, Ireland, Davies and has dropped the shite Petrov and Warnock.
He has then bought a 20+ goal a season striker, a quality Midfielder in Makoun and has improved the way we play.
We have had an absolute nightmare with injuries and think he needs abit more credit than he gets.
I'm for one glad we dont have a bunch of lazy money grabbers in our team, meaning our young lads don't get a chance.
Yeah he has fucked up a few times, but he will have learned and I am really excited about next season.
The fact you're already looking forward to next season says everything you need to know about this one with a quarter of the games left to play.
I want to like Houllier. I like the idea of the team playing a passing game. But he keeps blundering.
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Well this season has been a disaster before it began, it's a transitional period.
As Houllier said we are not safe, this is a very indifferent league, West Ham have won 4 of there last 6, now that's better form than us.
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It seems to me as though people want Houllier to fail, he has made a few mistakes and it's like people have marked his cards and thats it.
We need to relax and stop jumping all over him when certain things don't go right.
Open your eyes ...!!
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I agree with every word I've read over the past page or so that has been written by Shrek.
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I agree with every word I've read over the past page or so that has been written by Shrek.
So do I.
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The way to show your disgust is to boycott the first home cup game of next season. A 10,000 crowd will really focus their attention.
People have been boycotting cup games for years which is hy I'm surprised by a lot of the "outrage" as many of them don't put their money where their mouth is when it comes to "loving" the cups.
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Maybe the club can issue new match tickets categories for next season:
A
B
C and
D the games that the manager thinks we can't win.
I'm laughing on the outside but my soul is weeping.
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The way to show your disgust is to boycott the first home cup game of next season. A 10,000 crowd will really focus their attention.
People have been boycotting cup games for years which is hy I'm surprised by a lot of the "outrage" as many of them don't put their money where their mouth is when it comes to "loving" the cups.
I think the best way to show your disgust is to plan a march from a pub, you were going to go to anyway, to a match that you were going to attend too.
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Well since Gerrard has been here he has got rid of the useless Sidwell, Carew, Ireland, Davies and has dropped the shite Petrov and Warnock.
He has then bought a 20+ goal a season striker, a quality Midfielder in Makoun and has improved the way we play.
We have had an absolute nightmare with injuries and think he needs abit more credit than he gets.
I'm for one glad we dont have a bunch of lazy money grabbers in our team, meaning our young lads don't get a chance.
Yeah he has fucked up a few times, but he will have learned and I am really excited about next season.
I think he's prepared for a new Manager, Owen Coyle I am hoping.
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Apologising makes him look even more foolish I think. A very bad move.
Damned if he does. Damned if he doesnt.
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I tend to agree with shrek and SubM'r ... yes, some of the public statements have been crazy; some of the media and fans have been less than balanced.
Crap start to the season, crap midpoint and probably a continuation of the same.
This may be the rose-tinted view but depending what the investment situation looks like, next season will start with a stronger, more talented squad with a flexible gameplan that we didn't have under the last manager.
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Apologising makes him look even more foolish I think. A very bad move.
Damned if he does. Damned if he doesnt.
Damned.
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I really can't understand the level of indignation on here about this. He picked a team for the cup that wasn't our best 11 but the only players that came in who aren't considered part of the first team are Herd and possibly the fonz. That Petrov was shit isn't Houllier's fault, we can see the guy's legs have gone but we have to try to get some value out of our club captain for the rest of the season. The only genuine criticism I can understand was the decision to play heskey fonz and gabby together which made is a bit narrow and took away our creativity, but I remember reading loads of people saying the fonz should be tried in the hole so maybe GH saw the same potential.
We lost the game, and maybe we could've won with the best 11 but there was no guarantee about it and in all honesty we'd probably have struggled with our best side, that's what happens when you play against a team that has been assembled for around half a billion pounds who have decided that competition is their best chance of winning something this year.
Then he then felt he had to come out and say something because the fans were demanding his head probably led to him badly wording his initial response. Rather than 'we can't beat Man City' I think he was probably trying to say, as I did, there was no guarantee the best 11 would have won won either as it'd have still been a tough game. Given that he rested a few players but in most cases replaced them with players who deserve a chance (Bannan, Fonz, Bradley) or should be good enough to put in a good performance (Petrov, Heskey, Gabby) he probably didn't intend the throw the game as many are suggesting. The problem was, as he says in the guardian piece, we conceded very early which will always make things tough against a title challenging side, they then stayed tight and got 2 more on the counter.
As someone else has said it feels like, for a lot of people, he wasn't who was wanted and when the wins didn't come in the first month or 2 (because of injuries as much as anything) people made their minds up that he should be 'ex villa manager' asap and are jumping up and down about anything they think might increase the chances of him going.
The reality is we're playing the best football we have in years and have lots of very exciting young players who have shown they can handle the big stage, yes this season is a bit of a write-off but there are so many positives for the next couple of seasons that we may well look back on this year as needed to allow the changes that had to happen.
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No other Villa manager in living memory has ever sent out such a weakened team. Disgraceful! The game's about winning! Winning matches and winning trophies.
I'm sorry, but this has made my blood boil.
It's too late for apologies, but he better pull his finger out between now and the end if the season. No, tell you what! Just fuck him off now! I just literally can't bare the man anymore!
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There are a fair few people on the wind-up, I reckon.
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I really can understand and do many non Villa fans in all the media - written or on the radio.
Hopefully we can all look back on this season as the season that was the beginning of Villa's success, but that's not guaranteed either ,
I don't understand why you don't understand, but I am one who looks at Fulham getting a draw at Eastlands the previous weekend and who felt we did have a chance of beating Citeh or at least bringing them back to VP.
If Houllier was to communicate his masterplsn maybe we could buy into it - however, throwing away that game was not a clever move at all and the man had a mountain to climb to win ove the fans.
In my opinion, we need a younger, more vibrant Manager and one for whom the players will enjoy playing for.
That way. even the most expensively assembled team will become beatable.
Get rid at the end of the season and replace with a Manager who will be able to motivate , to enlighten and to make the dressing room a team of self belief.
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No other Villa manager in living memory has ever sent out such a weakened team.
Bollocks, and at the same time typical of what's been said since Wednesday. We've been putting out weak sides ever since the League Cup at Chelsea in 1998 yet it's only now that's it's a sackable offence.
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No other Villa manager in living memory has ever sent out such a weakened team.
Bollocks, and at the same time typical of what's been said since Wednesday. We've been putting out weak sides ever since the League Cup at Chelsea in 1998 yet it's only now that's it's a sackable offence.
I'm not sure the majority of post-wednesday moaning equates to people wanting Houllier sacked Dave. Certainly for me its more a growing disillusionment with the snowballing number of gaffs he seems indifferent to.
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No one was moaning when Bannan and Delfouneso were superb against Blackburn in the cup.
I think Houllier is still genuinely concerned about relegation, so wanted to protect our best players.
I wish we had gone for it, but I think we should move on now and support the lads.
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Wednesday wasn't a gaff - it was a decision he made. He's our manager and those decisions are his to live, and die, by.
It's easy to label those who now want him gone as having a knee jerk reaction to the Man City game, but thruthfully it's the latest in a long line of things that have lead me to a certain conclusion. A football club works best when all, and by that I mean manager, board, players and fans, are 'buying in' to the plan. Strength through unity..............and we don't have that. I wouldn't go so far as to say I want him gone, but I'm increasingly convinced that we will not reach any level of success under him.
I hope I'm wrong.
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I wish we had gone for it, but I think we should move on now and support the lads.
I will support the lads today, but as for moving on, it will take a long time for me to forget, let alone forgive, those responsible for besmirching both the club's reputation and the potential prize I still value more than any other.
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A big problem here is that too many fans have still got this idea of a best 11 in their heads so as soon as we lose a game when we aren't playing their best 11 the manager has got it wrong.
We've had 4 years of watching a manager with the same idea and we've seen our season fall apart in March in 3 of those seasons, so maybe there's a sign that it doesn't work.
On top of that I still think conceding early was what did the damage, there was enough talent in the team he picked to give them a game if we'd kept it tight until half time, being behind early in games like that is always going to make it tough, even for best 11 it'd have been a big ask.
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No one was moaning when Bannan and Delfouneso were superb against Blackburn in the cup..
True, but it's horses for courses. I was a total non believer before the game, I admit that, but I was starting to get a bit confident in the lead up to the match and when that team was announced it was all over. People are not as upset with losing the game as much as the way we seemingly gave up before it started. Ok, I'll admit, I gave up when the draw was made but I am not on the pitch, in the dugout etc being paid millions to prove me wrong. Why can't the club have moved forward as a whole and told the 3,000 plus fans heading to Manchester that we had other priororties instead of blatantly bullshitting in the media about how we are desperate to win a trophy yada yada....The fans feel like they have been robbed and rightly or wrongly they are entitled to that opinion.
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He should not have apologised. He is the currently the manager and he has the right to pick whoever he likes from our squad. We, as fans, do not have think his decisions are correct, but he shouldn't have to apologise for them.
On Saturday I thought the decision to play Pires was a mistake, there was lots of comments slating his team selection, yet we won comfortably and Pires was one of our best players.
I am not a big fan of GH or his tactics but I think calling for him and the club to apologise for his team selection unfounded.
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He should not have apologised. He is the currently the manager and he has the right to pick whoever he likes from our squad. We, as fans, do not have think his decisions are correct, but he shouldn't have to apologise for them.
On Saturday I thought the decision to play Pires was a mistake, there was lots of comments slating his team selection, yet we won comfortably and Pires was one of our best players.
I am not a big fan of GH or his tactics but I think calling for him and the club to apologise for his team selection unfounded.
I don't think the manager has to apologise, far from it, and anyone who thinks he should need to be careful what they wish for. However, I was/am vehemently against what he did at City, let's just hope the fans, me included, can move on from this and support our great club evermore. Let's all move on to the Bolton thread and accept that we as fans have our place (we can never pick the team) and slagging the manager off, as I have done myself, is not going to get us 3 points today.
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Way up the positives and negatives of Houllier.
I'm liking the positives alot more than a few comments and one bad team selection.
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The manager is, of course, entitled to pick who he likes. It's his job. But part of his job is to do the best for Aston Villa, it doesn't mean that he has to win every game.
But he has to try.
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I wish we had gone for it, but I think we should move on now and support the lads.
My thoughts exactly.
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He's the manager and apologising to a load of whining fans who have decided they want him out is not going to happen.
He will sink or swim by his actions short and long term of that I'm sure.
Whether he will walk out without notice 5 days before an ill prepared season I doubt very much.
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Shrek said:-
Way up the positives and negatives of Houllier.
I'm liking the positives alot more than a few comments and one bad team selection.
(sorry - the quoting think isn't working for me!)
We can talk all we like about the hows, the whys, the positives and the negatives. However results wise we have more to be negative about than " a few comments and one bad team selection."
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"He's the manager and apologising to a load of whining fans who have decided they want him out is not going to happen.
He will sink or swim by his actions short and long term of that I'm sure.
Whether he will walk out without notice 5 days before an ill prepared season I doubt very much."
Seriously - just let it go.
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If the ambition of the club is mid table Premiership security, why do we need Houllier?
We are led to believe that Houllier intends to play a better class of football. If we are going to bottle out of big games what is the point of playing passing football? If the limit of what we can expect from Villa is somewhere between sixth and fourteenth why not employ Allardyce or Pulis or Jol or Curbishley? With the Villa fan base and relative wealth they would deliver mid-table security till the cows come home.
Ah, I hear the Houllier enthusiasts say it is to provide more attractive games to watch. Lichaj launching long throws into the six yard area for Heskey to scramble a goal is boring. We must have the quality of football to please our fans.
Then I say if the ultimate objective of all this pain we are being subjected to is to please the fans why does Houllier go out of his way to make the fans so angry?
We huff and puff and dice with relegation in the name of better quality football. Then when we get a chance to show what we can do against a quality side with a big prize to play for we decline it in favour of a safety first policy of trying to get a something out of our game with the mighty Bolton.
We are neither an exciting side nor a secure side. Houllier has put us fair and square in no man's land.
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No other Villa manager in living memory has ever sent out such a weakened team.
Bollocks, and at the same time typical of what's been said since Wednesday. We've been putting out weak sides ever since the League Cup at Chelsea in 1998 yet it's only now that's it's a sackable offence.
Gregory was trying to guide a thin squad to the premiereship title, an absurd notion but he believed he could do it. O'Neill did it because he had designs on the champions League which was obviously the brief he'd been given by the owner.
In contrast Houllier's decision was based on a pathetic lack of belief in his own ability to guide a large and talented squad away from the lower reaches of the table whilst at the same time trying to win a cup match or two.
There's just no comparison in my view. Also the reason that we have as few points as we do is down to Houllier's poor motivational skills and inexplicable team selections, the home games against Arsenal and Spurs being excellent examples of this.
I've got to say I'm surprised at your attitude Dave. From the start of the fanzine winning the FA Cup was always an obsession with you.
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The thing is, as things stand this has been a bad season but since Bent arrived we've got 11 points in 6 games, which included games against Man Utd away and Man City at home.
If we extend that run for the rest of the season we'll be top half comfortably and might even be able to make a push for europe. If, as manager, he feels the best way to do this was by playing a weakened team in the cup then so be it.
Like it or not the cups are not as important as the league anymore (to the club, not the fans). You get more prize money for finishing 17th in the prem than you do for winning the FA cup, and long term the gap just widens.
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You now have your apology. Can you all stop having a little cry-fest and get back to supporting the team AND manager
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You now have your apology. Can you all stop having a little cry-fest and get back to supporting the team AND manager
I believe quite a few did this in Manchester last week. Following a previous apology, stonking home win and statement of intent from the manager, who then gave up.
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You get more prize money for finishing 17th in the prem than you do for winning the FA cup, and long term the gap just widens.
I think that is a very simplistic argument if we are talking about finances. Have you taken European football into account? In addition there is the unquantifiable exposure that being a cup winner brings, and the money that comes with it. Anyway, let's move on....
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You now have your apology. Can you all stop having a little cry-fest and get back to supporting the team AND manager
He apologised for not telling fans beforehand, that's all.
There's has been no apology for taking the decision that Aston Villa were no longer interested in competing in the FA Cup.
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The thing is though guys, HAD we have won today if we didn't cock it all up, on reflection ppl would be much less annoyed and would of given Houllier the benefit of the doubt.
His reason on resting half the team on Wednesday was to have a full strength team today which gave him his best chances of winning. If we'd won today it'd be hard to complain because Houllier on reflection would have done the right thing and it'd be hard to criticize him because he was open in coming out saying what his intentions were.
I wish we'd played a better team on Wednesday because we'd all but be in the semi-finals again. We lost though. Just like we lost today.
However, you can't blame team selection and prioritising the league for our loss today. We all know why we lost. We lost because we missed a penalty and couldn't have any spine in the dying minutes.
It's time to move on though. Providing we stay up and are doing alright next season I think we'll see more intent from the manager next time.
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I think we'll all post better after a full pre-season.
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The irony was he rested the wrong players
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
That's a good point.
You could see in his post match interview he clearly cares and was very frustrated with the way things went today.
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One of the board's mistakes since they took over has been to be too close to supporters, particularly those who are online regularly. This has meant amongst other things that we somehow feel entitled to explanations and apologies every time something goes wrong or a decision is made that we don't agree with. It would be nice if every club was as customer-friendly as ours but they aren't, and this is why.
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One of the board's mistakes since they took over has been to be too close to supporters, particularly those who are online regularly. This has meant amongst other things that we somehow feel entitled to explanations and apologies every time something goes wrong or a decision is made that we don't agree with. It would be nice if every club was as customer-friendly as ours but they aren't, and this is why.
I totally agree with this.
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
That's a good point.
You could see in his post match interview he clearly cares and was very frustrated with the way things went today.
Barry Hearn was on Talkshite on Thursday as I was driving up to Leeds. He said that a few years back he had the opportunity to buy the ground back from the council for £350,000 (for Orient). He said he was willing to foot it, so he went to the fans and asked them: What would you prefer? I buy back the stadium, and it's ours again, or I'll buy a new centre forward.
85% said a new centre forward.
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
he is completley mad, he is unpopular because he is making stupid decisions like Wednesday and after todays result he now looks a even bigger fool, Coward, Brave, i think he just doesn't know what he's doing, in a world of his own, shocking manager for us
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
If he feels that Wednesday was right for the club, he's a fucking idiot. There was no sign today that it was the right decision anyhow.
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
That's a good point.
You could see in his post match interview he clearly cares and was very frustrated with the way things went today.
Embarrassed more like and so he should be, big salary, freedom and trust from the board and he is simply not delivering
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
he is completley mad, he is unpopular because he is making stupid decisions like Wednesday and after todays result he now looks a even bigger fool, Coward, Brave, i think he just doesn't know what he's doing, in a world of his own, shocking manager for us
He is quite clearly not completley mad.
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
If he feels that Wednesday was right for the club, he's a fucking idiot. There was no sign today that it was the right decision anyhow.
Well I haven't seen the game today, but from every independant source that I've read or heard has said we should have been out of sight before they equalised.
So the performance may justify it, but the result did not.
Still, you've made your mind up as have many others, so lets just carry on with the self-flagellation, and I'll sit back and enjoy a message board that's read like the comments left on a Daily Mail website regarding and absurd immigration story.
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For some reason I watched a television interview with Rafa Benitez a few days ago. At Liverpool he was famous for making apparently bizarre tactical decision which more often than not didn't work. After the match, he always refused to admit that the decision was a mistake. The interviewer asked if it wouldn't have been better to have admitted that it was a bad decision. Benitez replied that if a manager admitted the mistakes he made, he would be continually undermined by media, pundits and opponents. Thus, he believed, you have to be defiant in public, but be self-critical in private.
What GH did on Wednesday was not to give up before the match started. He made a gamble that he thought was worth making, and he knew the risks involved. He's no fool even though some posters here believe so. I'm not sure if the apology was a wise move by GH, because -- in the long run -- I don't think it will serve the club well if the manager has to explain every decision he makes.
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
If he feels that Wednesday was right for the club, he's a fucking idiot. There was no sign today that it was the right decision anyhow.
Well I haven't seen the game today, but from every independant source that I've read or heard has said we should have been out of sight before they equalised.
So the performance may justify it, but the result did not.
Still, you've made your mind up as have many others, so lets just carry on with the self-flagellation, and I'll sit back and enjoy a message board that's read like the comments left on a Daily Mail website regarding and absurd immigration story.
I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
he is completley mad, he is unpopular because he is making stupid decisions like Wednesday and after todays result he now looks a even bigger fool, Coward, Brave, i think he just doesn't know what he's doing, in a world of his own, shocking manager for us
He is quite clearly not completley mad.
So Lee do you think he and his coaching team are doing a good job since he took over ? and if so try and enlighten me, I've been wrong before I just don't get him
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One of the board's mistakes since they took over has been to be too close to supporters, particularly those who are online regularly. This has meant amongst other things that we somehow feel entitled to explanations and apologies every time something goes wrong or a decision is made that we don't agree with. It would be nice if every club was as customer-friendly as ours but they aren't, and this is why.
I agree entirely with that Dave, and very much appreciate the efforts the club make.
But I do think it is important that the top people at the club get the message and understand how fans feel on such a major issue as the other night. I didn't realistically expect a club apology, but I raised this thread two days after the initial outcry to show that it is not a knee-jerk reaction and that there is genuine anger out there at what happened. It's not something to brush under the carpet in a feeble post-match interview.
I said right at the start I'm not anti-Houlllier, and for me this has never been about sacking the manager or people resigning, but the most disappointing thing is nothing seems to have been learned from the Moscow experience.
An injustice was done to Villa fans and the FA Cup the other night – I just want to know that the people who run our club can see that and can understand the anger it has caused.
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One of the board's mistakes since they took over has been to be too close to supporters, particularly those who are online regularly. This has meant amongst other things that we somehow feel entitled to explanations and apologies every time something goes wrong or a decision is made that we don't agree with. It would be nice if every club was as customer-friendly as ours but they aren't, and this is why.
I agree entirely with that Dave, and very much appreciate the efforts the club make.
But I do think it is important that the top people at the club get the message and understand how fans feel on such a major issue as the other night. I didn't realistically expect a club apology, but I raised this thread two days after the initial outcry to show that it is not a knee-jerk reaction and that there is genuine anger out there at what happened. It's not something to brush under the carpet in a feeble post-match interview.
I said right at the start I'm not anti-Houlllier, and for me this has never been about sacking the manager or people resigning, but the most disappointing thing is nothing seems to have been learned from the Moscow experience.
An injustice was done to Villa fans and the FA Cup the other night – I just want to know that the people who run our club can see that and can understand the anger it has caused.
I agree with you, but I also remember something that players and supporters of Liverpool have said, namely the thing that stopepd their run of success was Hillsborough and its aftermath. Not the tragedy itself but the fact that the club opened its doors to the fans and in doing so stripped itself of the mystique that surrounded it. Obviously, the two situations are a million miles apart, but I do wonder if our board have done a similar thing in their own particular open door policy.
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I hope not Dave, that would be a huge shame. But I think the point you make is a great one (however, i think Greame Souness had a hand in the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' demise too).
I think it's very difficult though in such a passionate game to have that policy. As we know too well, Villa are a Club that pick you up and drop you down just as quickly - and internet boards are prone to overreaction.
The Generals thread in particular got totally out of hand.
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The Generals thread in particular got totally out of hand.
Indeed it did, and when we suggested that he took a back seat for a while he was accused of running away. Maybe they did too much, too soon.
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I quite like the thought of having a manager who is willing to make decisions that will make him unpopular, if he feels it is the right decision for the club.
Some have labelled him a coward for Wednesday, on the evidence seen so far I would say he is quite the opposite.
If he feels that Wednesday was right for the club, he's a fucking idiot. There was no sign today that it was the right decision anyhow.
Well I haven't seen the game today, but from every independant source that I've read or heard has said we should have been out of sight before they equalised.
So the performance may justify it, but the result did not.
Still, you've made your mind up as have many others, so lets just carry on with the self-flagellation, and I'll sit back and enjoy a message board that's read like the comments left on a Daily Mail website regarding and absurd immigration story.
Until he does something worthy of praise, what do you expect? We caved in in the FA Cup, and are still deep in the relegation battle. He may not be a shit manager, but if he isn't he needs to stop doing his very good impression of one.
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The Generals thread in particular got totally out of hand.
Indeed it did, and when we suggested that he took a back seat for a while he was accused of running away. Maybe they did too much, too soon.
Totally agree, the general was trying his best to connect with the fans but there has to be that healthy distance or as we saw, things can get out of hand
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If our manager feels that the best decision for Aston Villa is not to compete, and admit that we could not beat Man City because he felt they were better than us, then he should NOT be manager of this proud club!
If this had been made clear prior to the game, how many fans would have bothered taking time off work, spending hard-earned cash and trekking up to Manchester to witness a surrender of unprecedented callousness?
No, it was clear when the team was announced what would happen - obviously Moscow and, to a lesser degree Hamburg, were ignored.
Shame on you Houllier, and shame on Villa for appointing you.
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The Generals thread in particular got totally out of hand.
Indeed it did, and when we suggested that he took a back seat for a while he was accused of running away. Maybe they did too much, too soon.
I was never comfortable with this close communication between the fans and the club, particularly via the internet. At times the club appeared to be trying to appease everyone on such varying topics as transfer policy, Wembley ticket distribution and the price of a pie and ended up not knowing which way to turn.
You then had the "General, why don't we sign Messi?" type of comments.
Fan/club communication is very important and while it may have been a worthwhile and admirable experiment, in this case I believe lessons need to be learned.
As for "apologies" from the club or the manager, they make us look weak and portray a negative image.
I would prefer the club to approach every game with a positive attitude and ensure that the conduct of all employees is suitably professional and respectful.
There would be no need for apologies then.
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Yes we should have won, three bad defensive errors from an inexperieced back line and a keeper that will not leave his line, but i tell you what some of the football we played was top notch.
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Totally agree robbo, anyone playing us must see that the keeper does not even come out in the 6 yard box- put your crosses in that area and if you get a header to it you will probably score- I've been saying it for a couple of years now, a keeper who stays on his line when the ball is so close is a huge liability and cannot give any confidence to defenders, we are conceding goals for fun and should have brought in a keeper in January.
He has no real competition for his place and we are stuck with him for the season now, not only his lack of commanding the area but the way he pushes shots back out in front of him rather than wide of him is also a huge concern.
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If Gerard feels we could never have beaten an injury hit Man City (one which drew at home to Fulham and looked pedestrian against Wuhan yesterday) then I am very disappointed to have such a defeatist attitude from those meant to be leading us.
That is his call, though, and he takes the consequences of it, so he clearly must feel that way.
To come out and say it to the media, though, serves no purpose at all, and was terrible judgement on his part - something the media department clearly thought and something we've seen far too much of from him this season.
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If Gerard feels we could never have beaten an injury hit Man City (one which drew at home to Fulham and looked pedestrian against Wuhan yesterday) then I am very disappointed to have such a defeatist attitude from those meant to be leading us.
That is his call, though, and he takes the consequences of it, so he clearly must feel that way.
To come out and say it to the media, though, serves no purpose at all, and was terrible judgement on his part - something the media department clearly thought and something we've seen far too much of from him this season.
Completely agree. His media skills are as atrocious as his ability to organise a defence.
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Yes we should have won, three bad defensive errors from an inexperieced back line and a keeper that will not leave his line, but i tell you what some of the football we played was top notch.
My few pints of "Flat Cap" must have affected my eyesight or perception because what I saw yesterday was way short of "top notch".
The time to play tippy tappy expansive football is when you are 3 -0 up and posses a defence that can defend from set pieces.
All very well playing pretty football but it will not stop us from getting relegated unless we show some steel.
Personally I am happier with 3 points irrespective of performance compared to "didn`t we play some lovely stuff " but lost 3-2 to feckin Bolton, Wigan, Fulham, Blackpool et al
Just ask a Baggies/Barnsley fans fan what they prefer - workmanlike 3 points or Brazil like football and a pluckly defeat.
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The time to play tippy tappy expansive football is when you are 3 -0 up and posses a defence that can defend from set pieces.
Oh god, don't tell me you've fallen for that tippy tappy thing as well?
In midfield and further forward, we played excellent football for large chunks of the game yesterday, and but for some uncharacteristically profligate finishing, we'd have been absolutely out of sight by half time. Bolton couldn't really have complained had it been 5-0 at half time. We were that impressive.
What's wrong with playing decent football in trying to score goals when the match is 0-0?
But ...
All very well playing pretty football but it will not stop us from getting relegated unless we show some steel.
You're right on the showing some steel thing, and that's what bollocksed us yesterday again. Just like it did against Fulham. Just like it did against Man United (h) even. Just like it has lots of times this season.
Personally I am happier with 3 points irrespective of performance compared to "didn`t we play some lovely stuff " but lost 3-2 to feckin Bolton, Wigan, Fulham, Blackpool et al
Just ask a Baggies/Barnsley fans fan what they prefer - workmanlike 3 points or Brazil like football and a pluckly defeat
And what about all the points in between those extremes - ie playing decent football and getting decent results?
Plenty of teams do it, why shouldn't we?
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yea one republic and timbaland
did it so wots the problema?
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The time to play tippy tappy expansive football is when you are 3 -0 up and posses a defence that can defend from set pieces.
How can you be "tippy tappy" and "expansive"?
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"Plenty of teams do it, why shouldn't we? "
Just maybe we havn`t the personnel for that.
Personally I`d rather just see the points on the board - the game is all about winning surely.
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The time to play tippy tappy expansive football is when you are 3 -0 up and posses a defence that can defend from set pieces.
How can you be "tippy tappy" and "expansive"?
Apologies, I meant expensive:) !
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One of the board's mistakes since they took over has been to be too close to supporters, particularly those who are online regularly. This has meant amongst other things that we somehow feel entitled to explanations and apologies every time something goes wrong or a decision is made that we don't agree with. It would be nice if every club was as customer-friendly as ours but they aren't, and this is why.
I agree entirely with that Dave, and very much appreciate the efforts the club make.
But I do think it is important that the top people at the club get the message and understand how fans feel on such a major issue as the other night. I didn't realistically expect a club apology, but I raised this thread two days after the initial outcry to show that it is not a knee-jerk reaction and that there is genuine anger out there at what happened. It's not something to brush under the carpet in a feeble post-match interview.
I said right at the start I'm not anti-Houlllier, and for me this has never been about sacking the manager or people resigning, but the most disappointing thing is nothing seems to have been learned from the Moscow experience.
An injustice was done to Villa fans and the FA Cup the other night – I just want to know that the people who run our club can see that and can understand the anger it has caused.
If he was going to be fair to the fans GH should have told us he was throwing the game before people spent hard earned cash on a waste of time...