Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on February 28, 2011, 07:54:16 AM
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Beye, Warnock and Salifou.
I reckon there's nearly £100,000 pw going out to those three in wages.
Small wonder people get so pissed off with modern football.
Do they train with the reserves?
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I think this is an area where Houllier can't be faulted.
He's managed to get a shed-load off the wage bill during the transfer window, with the likes of Sidwell, Ireland and Carew all gone.
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TO be honest none of them even turn up at the ground on match days either - whether they have been told to stay away i am not sure - i would imagine that is the case in Whinging Warnocks case
When you see Beye park his huge Ferrari in the car park it makes you feel quiet sick actually
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When you see Beye park his huge Ferrari in the car park it makes you feel quiet sick actually
Banking and professional football.
The two careers that reward failure.
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wHAT HAS HAPPENED TO POOR BARRY BANNAN ?
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I really don't understand why Salifou is at the club.
He signed in 2007 with a 1 year deal. When he leaves he'll have done 4 years!! For fucks sake!!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/6973403.stm)
Habib Beye on £40k a week is unreal.
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For some bizarre reason, O'Neill extended Salifou's contract after the inital 12 months.
Why he did that is anybodys guess.
Beye being on £40k pw over 4 years will cost us over £8m in wages. Incredible.
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Makes me sick to think we are paying Beye £40k a week, Has he not gone to Ipswich?
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Makes me sick to think we are paying Beye £40k a week, Has he not gone to Ipswich?
He refused as Ipswich wouldn't provide a gold plated, mink lined club car.
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wHAT HAS HAPPENED TO POOR BARRY BANNAN ?
I think he's sitting on your Caps Lock.
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Bannon was captain of the reserves last week, I was supprised he wasnt on the bench on saturday.
Salifou doesnt even play for the reserves this season is he suffering PTSSe that shooting incident?
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I think this is an area where Houllier can't be faulted.
What areas can he be faulted on, player wise then.
It cannot be easy managing such a load of dead wood inherited from his predecessor, especially as many didn't want to play for him when he joined, probably guessing life would become much harder than the holiday they'd had previously.
As to why they don't turn up, I'd guess its easier to go and watch your local side like Liverpool in Warnocks case than turn up on expenses top watch Villa play.
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Beye and Salifou are both playing in the reserves today against Wolves
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When you see Beye park his huge Ferrari in the car park it makes you feel quiet sick actually
He must have a collection then. I saw him last season in a Range Rover - the hilarious part of this was that he turned up at the top of Witton Lane by the church and asked the steward stood by the closed road to let him through. The steward politely told him to fuck off and he then sloped off back in his car to fight his way round the other side!!
Obviously money doesn't buy you common sense or the ability to drive down closed roads!
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Beye's contract was for 3 years I think, not 4.
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Beye's contract was for 3 years I think, not 4.
Phew!
We dodged a bullet there!
Only £6m + in wages.
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Salifou is six years off a testimonial.
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Salifou is six years off a testimonial.
How many appearances has he made, does anyone remember?
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He must have a collection then. I saw him last season in a Range Rover - the hilarious part of this was that he turned up at the top of Witton Lane by the church and asked the steward stood by the closed road to let him through. The steward politely told him to fuck off and he then sloped off back in his car to fight his way round the other side!!
The steward probably didn't recognise him. I don't think I would.
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He must have a collection then. I saw him last season in a Range Rover - the hilarious part of this was that he turned up at the top of Witton Lane by the church and asked the steward stood by the closed road to let him through. The steward politely told him to fuck off and he then sloped off back in his car to fight his way round the other side!!
The steward probably didn't recognise him. I don't think I would.
It makes me wonder if the Newcastle fans thought up his song as a clever marketing gimmick.
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Salifou's deal isn't as wacky as a few make out.
He's on close to buttons in the mental world of football wages, and is a regular in the reserve side.
It would be great if every single player in that reserve side was a realistic candidate for the first team, but not many reserve outfits operate that way. Team dynamic comes into it too, I guess. Even for the second string, it would be important to have a mix of players; some promising youngsters, senior pro's who are just missing out on the first XI and a few players punching above their weight and happy just to be there. Salifou definitely comes into the latter category.
If you have too many of the first two you have players who are either too green or too disappointed/ disinterested in the side.
Agree on Beye and Warnock, but not many had Warnock down as a bad bit of business this time last year.
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Is Salifou really on 2K per week?
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I really don't understand why Salifou is at the club.
He signed in 2007 with a 1 year deal. When he leaves he'll have done 4 years!! For fucks sake!!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/6973403.stm).
Habib Beye on £40k a week is unreal.
I have a slightly bizarre theory on this, after the Toga bus was attacked MON came out and said what a great bloke salifou is to have around the training ground and within the squad. Therefore I think he is employed as a very expensive comedian/psychologist/motivational expert.
I know that sounds a bit odd but he has never been close enough to the team to justify these contract extensions
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wHAT HAS HAPPENED TO POOR BARRY BANNAN ?
I think he's sitting on your Caps Lock.
*Applause*
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I really don't understand why Salifou is at the club.
He signed in 2007 with a 1 year deal. When he leaves he'll have done 4 years!! For fucks sake!!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/6973403.stm).
Habib Beye on £40k a week is unreal.
I have a slightly bizarre theory on this, after the Toga bus was attacked MON came out and said what a great bloke salifou is to have around the training ground and within the squad. Therefore I think he is employed as a very expensive comedian/psychologist/motivational expert.
I know that sounds a bit odd but he has never been close enough to the team to justify these contract extensions
Would that be the Toga bus driven by John Belushi?
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wHAT HAS HAPPENED TO POOR BARRY BANNAN ?
I think he's sitting on your Caps Lock.
*Applause*
Standing ovation here
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Salifou's deal isn't as wacky as a few make out.
He's on close to buttons in the mental world of football wages, and is a regular in the reserve side.
It would be great if every single player in that reserve side was a realistic candidate for the first team, but not many reserve outfits operate that way. Team dynamic comes into it too, I guess. Even for the second string, it would be important to have a mix of players; some promising youngsters, senior pro's who are just missing out on the first XI and a few players punching above their weight and happy just to be there. Salifou definitely comes into the latter category.
If you have too many of the first two you have players who are either too green or too disappointed/ disinterested in the side.
Agree on Beye and Warnock, but not many had Warnock down as a bad bit of business this time last year.
That's been my take on the Salifou situation since long before the horrific incident that occurred when he was with his national side. MON praised him for his attitude around the place in general and I agree that for what (comparatively) little we pay him, I really couldn't care less. And not just because of what he's been through.
When plenty last season were hammering Cuellar and lauding Warnock, I stood by my opinion that one was playing well despite being played out of position while the other was doing little to suggest he was (being played in his favoured position I mean). The general consensus on here was that Carlos was crap and Stephen superb (nice bit of alliteration for 6:45 in the morning). It's interesting how quickly many turned on Warnock this season. Not to say that I don't think it's warranted. I just didn't think he was playing any worse this season than last. Still think we missed a trick when we didn't off-load him post-WC.
I made the point about Beye and his 'beautiful' car (and equally attractive missus) after the Everton game at the start of the season. Everything there was to hate about modern football wrapped up in one simple package. Even I can't dispute that MON got this one very, very wrong.
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Is Salifou really on 2K per week?
No.
£10k pw.
He'll have cost us £1.5m in wages.
Low by Premier standards, but still a complete waste if it's for a player who will never play for the first team.
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Salifou's deal isn't as wacky as a few make out.
He's on close to buttons in the mental world of football wages, and is a regular in the reserve side.
It would be great if every single player in that reserve side was a realistic candidate for the first team, but not many reserve outfits operate that way. Team dynamic comes into it too, I guess. Even for the second string, it would be important to have a mix of players; some promising youngsters, senior pro's who are just missing out on the first XI and a few players punching above their weight and happy just to be there. Salifou definitely comes into the latter category.
If you have too many of the first two you have players who are either too green or too disappointed/ disinterested in the side.
Agree on Beye and Warnock, but not many had Warnock down as a bad bit of business this time last year.
That's been my take on the Salifou situation since long before the horrific incident that occurred when he was with his national side. MON praised him for his attitude around the place in general and I agree that for what (comparatively) little we pay him, I really couldn't care less. And not just because of what he's been through.
When plenty last season were hammering Cuellar and lauding Warnock, I stood by my opinion that one was playing well despite being played out of position while the other was doing little to suggest he was (being played in his favoured position I mean). The general consensus on here was that Carlos was crap and Stephen superb (nice bit of alliteration for 6:45 in the morning). It's interesting how quickly many turned on Warnock this season. Not to say that I don't think it's warranted. I just didn't think he was playing any worse this season than last. Still think we missed a trick when we didn't off-load him post-WC.
I made the point about Beye and his 'beautiful' car (and equally attractive missus) after the Everton game at the start of the season. Everything there was to hate about modern football wrapped up in one simple package. Even I can't dispute that MON got this one very, very wrong.
I don't recall Carlos getting "hammered" or being referred to as crap at all. I remember lots of people acknowledging he's good defensively but poor going forward, and should have been played at CB rather than RB. That's not saying he's crap, not by any stretch.
Warnock progressively deteriorated last season - especially after the CCF - and carried on doing so this season. If the stories about him being a whinger around the club are true (remember someone posting that he's constantly moaning about how he hates the club, can't stand the area, can't wait to be off), then I reckon Gerard has done the right thing sticking him in with the reserves.
As for Beye, i recall him saying something which sums up the modern footballer, when he was being linked with a move away, which was that he wouldn't mind going to play back in France, but he'd never get anything like the money he's on here, so he was going to sit tight.
He was a month or so short of 32 when he signed for us, on a three year contract. What sort of value Martin thought we'd get out of a 34 or 35 year old Habib Beye is beyond me - as is how he expected him to end up doing anything other than sitting out his contract, as nobody else would even think about giving a bog standard 32 / 33 year old right back 2 million pounds a year to sit on their bench.
On second thoughts, maybe that doesn't reflect too badly on the moderm player after all - who can blame him? I'd do the same in his position. Maybe it - and the entire right back saga for four years, for that matter - says most about Martin's scattergun, wasteful approach to building a squad.
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Salifou's deal isn't as wacky as a few make out.
He's on close to buttons in the mental world of football wages, and is a regular in the reserve side.
It would be great if every single player in that reserve side was a realistic candidate for the first team, but not many reserve outfits operate that way. Team dynamic comes into it too, I guess. Even for the second string, it would be important to have a mix of players; some promising youngsters, senior pro's who are just missing out on the first XI and a few players punching above their weight and happy just to be there. Salifou definitely comes into the latter category.
If you have too many of the first two you have players who are either too green or too disappointed/ disinterested in the side.
Agree on Beye and Warnock, but not many had Warnock down as a bad bit of business this time last year.
Disagree entirely.
What would Salifou's experience in the Swiss second division bring to the squad beyond having another academy kid there?
It's "only" about 600k a year in salary, you're right, comparatively it isn't much, but that sort of freeness with money is what leads to our current wages - turnover imbalance.
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I agree that I never saw quite the player in Warnock others did before his form started suffering. Decent enough LB, but nothing to write home about.
As for Beye/Salifou, the simple truth is every team will have players that don't get in or near the first 11. I guess the key is how much these players are paid. Comparatively speaking, we got that right in Salifou and wrong in Beye. But with Beye we have to remember even an average PL player is on £20k a week or more, so I don;t so much see it as £6m wasted, although can understand why some would, as much as it's £2-3m overspent on a squad player that didn;t make the grade.
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I agree that I never saw quite the player in Warnock others did before his form started suffering. Decent enough LB, but nothing to write home about.
I actually think it's harsh to point at Warnock as an example of a bad signing by MON, even given the way it has turned out. He was more than decent for us for a fair while, but he's clearly got something else going on which is making him unsettled.
As for Beye/Salifou, the simple truth is every team will have players that don't get in or near the first 11. I guess the key is how much these players are paid. Comparatively speaking, we got that right in Salifou and wrong in Beye. But with Beye we have to remember even an average PL player is on £20k a week or more, so I don;t so much see it as £6m wasted, although can understand why some would, as much as it's £2-3m overspent on a squad player that didn;t make the grade.
I don't really see how we got it right with Salifou, despite his relatively low wages. It's only 2m pounds, but it is still two million pounds. The fact we have renewed his contract a couple of times is puzzling.
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I'm not saying that Warnock is a bad player/signing, just that I never thought he was a good as some did when he first joined.
As for Salifou, I suppose it's not so much a case be getting it right as not getting it too far wrong by paying him astronomical wages. If you accept you'll have a player or two who won't get in the first team, but do a job for the reserves as that is used to bring through the kids who WILL get into the first team, then how much would you realistically think they should be paid?
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I'm not saying that Warnock is a bad player/signing, just that I never thought he was a good as some did when he first joined.
I didn't say you did, I was referring to the Warnock signing as discussed in general.
As for Salifou, I suppose it's not so much a case be getting it right as not getting it too far wrong by paying him astronomical wages. If you accept you'll have a player or two who won't get in the first team, but do a job for the reserves as that is used to bring through the kids who WILL get into the first team, then how much would you realistically think they should be paid?
That assumes that you accept we need to sign a player specifically to help bring through kids in the reserves, which I don't think we do, seems a bit arse about face to me - a bit like retrofitting a plausible reason to have spent that money on him.
It's not about Salifou per se, for me, it is about the casualness of throwing salary money around.
That 10k a week might one day be the difference between being able or unable to keep a player we really want to hang on to, for example.
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I agree we payed too much to a lot of squad players that simply weren't good enough. However, I don't think we payed too much to Salifou, if viewed comparatively to who and what he was.
The issue with these wages isn't so much whether we can afford them or not, but the impediment they create in offloading the players that aren't making the impact we thought. Were he not on £40k a week, Beye would have moved on by now to someone who would happily pay him the £20k he should be on. Same thing with Harewood - served his purpose for a season but we couldn't shift him out and recoup/save on the outlay.
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I agree we payed too much to a lot of squad players that simply weren't good enough. However, I don't think we payed too much to Salifou, if viewed comparatively to who and what he was.
The issue with these wages isn't so much whether we can afford them or not, but the impediment they create in offloading the players that aren't making the impact we thought. Were he not on £40k a week, Beye would have moved on by now to someone who would happily pay him the £20k he should be on. Same thing with Harewood - served his purpose for a season but we couldn't shift him out and recoup/save on the outlay.
The problem is, we knew this when we signed these players, yet we still went ahead and did it.
It shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone that Beye wouldn't get anything like that money for that long anywhere else. It's not like this is a new, unique situation we've stumbled into.
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I think a bit of rationality has come into some levels of football since we started spending big, mainly due to the world wide recession. That has been changed a bit for the worse again by the Man City takeover and them pushing the boundaries at the top end of the game money wise.
For instance, anyone know how much Beye was on at Newcastle? So did we pay the going rate or drastically increase his salary?
I agree as a player he shouldn't have been bought, but how far above his 'worth' at the time £40k a week was is a different matter.
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Salifou's deal isn't as wacky as a few make out.
He's on close to buttons in the mental world of football wages, and is a regular in the reserve side.
It would be great if every single player in that reserve side was a realistic candidate for the first team, but not many reserve outfits operate that way. Team dynamic comes into it too, I guess. Even for the second string, it would be important to have a mix of players; some promising youngsters, senior pro's who are just missing out on the first XI and a few players punching above their weight and happy just to be there. Salifou definitely comes into the latter category.
If you have too many of the first two you have players who are either too green or too disappointed/ disinterested in the side.
Agree on Beye and Warnock, but not many had Warnock down as a bad bit of business this time last year.
Disagree entirely.
What would Salifou's experience in the Swiss second division bring to the squad beyond having another academy kid there?
It's "only" about 600k a year in salary, you're right, comparatively it isn't much, but that sort of freeness with money is what leads to our current wages - turnover imbalance.
It's that team dynamic thing again.
Too many promising youngsters from the academy and we could get rolled. The priority for any reserve side is to provide a base and bridge the gap to the first team, I accept that. Results very much come second. But it could still be damaging if they consistently lost -which could also happen if the side was packed with players like Sidwell, players who thought they should be in the first team and were just going through the motions.
Salifou won the lottery when we signed him from the Swiss second division, yet he didn't play as if he took his good luck for granted. He never embarrassed himself in the few Europa League games where he got a run-out, and at the time when he signed various contract extensions it was probably expected that we'd face a fair amount of games, between the LC, Europa League and so on (the logic of treating European competition as one step up from the Reserve League is lost on me though, I must admit).