Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave shelley on February 18, 2011, 09:30:30 AM
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Watched Tony Gale on SSN this morning creaming himself about Jack Wilshire on Wednesday night v Barca. and him only being nineteen. Someone should remind him that Sid was doing it in the old first division on muddy pitches firstly at seventeen and then as a regular at eighteen and was every bit as good and in my opinion better, than Wilshire is now and possibly likely to be. It's sad to think that Sid played for the wrong club in the eyes of the biased media, otherwise (broken leg apart) he would have been up there with those close to three figure cap holders.
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Tony Gale is about one above Ronnie Irani but one below Micky Quinn and Tony Cascarino when it comes to insightful comments on football...
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I thought Wilshire looked the part on Wednesday considering who he was playing against. Agree that some of the gushing is OTT, need to just let him develop instead of announcing him as the second coming of Christ.
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Wilshire gave the ball away just 3 times in the whole game, some of his passes were defence splitting not just small 3 yard triangle types,
i was very impressed, did not look out of place at all sharing the midfield with what some people say is the best midfield of all times
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I was in the "whats all the fuss about Wiltshire" camp up until Weds night, his performance was out of the top drawer
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Tony Gale is another of these 'Birminum' pundits. Only interested in the 'Sky 4', Spurs and West Ham. Asked about any other club, they'll say "not seen too much of Villa/Bolton/Wigan/Everton/etc, etc, but [insert manager name] will have them fired up for this one and they'll be solid and well organised"
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He's good, but they're hyping him up beyond belief.
I remember the Nationals spunking their pants over Anton Ferdinand, who is shit.
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I know he's 19 and has great talent but I was watching his movement in the first-half when Arsenal hast he ball at the back and thought it was very poor. Its something that will be taught and I don't think he is a natural deep player but when ther back 4 of Arsenal needed an out ball he was on his heels too often and not showing for it. He was lazy and not looking for the work.
Not a damning criticism as he is still a long way short of the finished article and he did link up play nicely at times. Good luck to him as it'll only benefit England if players of his calibre come through into the national team.
But by then there'll only be 2 or 3 other decent English players so he'll be forced to carry the team - a la Rooney - and the pressure will be toog reat on him. Then the press will murder him very every on or off field mistake. Same old same old.
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Good player he did play well on wednesday showed maturity beyond his years they need to let him develop naturally not put too much expectations on his shoulders.
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I thought he was brilliant on Wed night with all things considered. Pleasure to watch.
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Why do people get so worked up when the media praise anything other than Villa as though its some great big conspiracy?
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I was in the "whats all the fuss about Wiltshire" camp up until Weds night, his performance was out of the top drawer
Exactly my thoughts - though he was superb on Wednesday - as much as i am proud as anything over some of our youth players lets be honest we dont have one anywhere as near as dominant and as good as him at the moment
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Watched Tony Gale on SSN this morning creaming himself about Jack Wilshire on Wednesday night v Barca. and him only being nineteen. Someone should remind him that Sid was doing it in the old first division on muddy pitches firstly at seventeen and then as a regular at eighteen and was every bit as good and in my opinion better, than Wilshire is now and possibly likely to be. It's sad to think that Sid played for the wrong club in the eyes of the biased media, otherwise (broken leg apart) he would have been up there with those close to three figure cap holders.
That's right, because pundits should always stop and think when asked to comment about a player "before I answer, can I possibly make reference to an Aston Villa player from more than 20 years ago? I mean, the player I'm being paid to comment on has nothing to do with Aston Villa - and you'd imagine that the people who are paying me probably want me to talk about the player I'm being paid to comment on - but I'd hate to be thought of as a Sky-4-wankfester by some paranoid Villa fans who are trawling the media for things to feel wounded about."
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I was in the "whats all the fuss about Wiltshire" camp up until Weds night, his performance was out of the top drawer
Ditto. It was an enormously assured performance at the very highest level. For me he completely outshone Fabregas. Long way to go but fantastic prospect.
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Gale's another of those idiots that says "Birminum" so his opinions on everything are irrelevant.
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Wilshere is a brilliant prospect, he's someone who will live up to all this hype.
Now if we manage Bannan properly, there's no reason why over the next 18 months he can't develop into that sort of central player.
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The second "Is Jack Wilshire overrated" debate in a week!
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When he scored against us and ran to the touch line waving his tongue out his mouth I had an urge to smack the twat in the face.
That is all.
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He's a cracking player and will develop well. However, I don't think he will ever reach the same level as an Iniesta or Xavi. He just isn't THAT good. However, he will be hyped up like he is and that is the problem.
By the standards of a British player he is fantastic but he doesn't have the intelligence or skill of the true greats.
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Wilshire who only made 11 passes in the whole game. Xavi who made 120.
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I was a bit like Wiki, in thinking is he as good as they all bang on about, but i was impressed with him on Wens, and thought he was Arses best player.
What i would say though , is as peter w said, his movement off the ball is poor, and to be as good a player as he is being hyped, he has to develop the humility of Xavi and Iniesta.
You never know he might turn out to be as good as Delph is going to be.
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Why would you think that I am paranoid when you don't even know me? Please read the post again and see that the reference was to the ott comments about Wilshire's age I can see for myself the promise of the player as I have for all young players over the years: Trevor Francis being one doing the business at sixteen as distateful as it may be to some, also Paul Gascoigne being another, magnificent talents both of them. There will always be the hyperbole surrounding precocious talent I could go on. As for seeeking something to moan about if you knew me you would know that I am one of lifes happy people and only post on here for the entertainment value and dislike the frequent personal attacks by you and others if you disagree with what is being said. As it says in H & V headings" enjoy yourselves and have fun"
Watched Tony Gale on SSN this morning creaming himself about Jack Wilshire on Wednesday night v Barca. and him only being nineteen. Someone should remind him that Sid was doing it in the old first division on muddy pitches firstly at seventeen and then as a regular at eighteen and was every bit as good and in my opinion better, than Wilshire is now and possibly likely to be. It's sad to think that Sid played for the wrong club in the eyes of the biased media, otherwise (broken leg apart) he would have been up there with those close to three figure cap holders.
That's right, because pundits should always stop and think when asked to comment about a player "before I answer, can I possibly make reference to an Aston Villa player from more than 20 years ago? I mean, the player I'm being paid to comment on has nothing to do with Aston Villa - and you'd imagine that the people who are paying me probably want me to talk about the player I'm being paid to comment on - but I'd hate to be thought of as a Sky-4-wankfester by some paranoid Villa fans who are trawling the media for things to feel wounded about."
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Wilshire who only made 11 passes in the whole game. Xavi who made 120.
dont let your inacurate stats get in the way of your argument mate,
he made 46 passes during the game of which 43 were acurate ones.
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He is the new Joe Cole, I remember him being touted as the next gazza, he is good but like a number 7 bus there will be another one along shortly.
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He had a good 2nd half against barca but was, like the entire arsenal midfield, totally out of his depth in the first half. He still needs to improve a lot before the praise he's getting will be justified, but is definitely a prospect.
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I think based on that performance Wilshere will be right up there with Marc Albrighton and Ciaran Clark for PFA Young player of the season. :P
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Wilshire who only made 11 passes in the whole game. Xavi who made 120.
dont let your inacurate stats get in the way of your argument mate,
he made 46 passes during the game of which 43 were acurate ones.
If it's stats then Xavi made 71 forward passes to Wilsheres 19. Not sure exactly what that means but he's got a hell of a long way to go before he could be compared to the likes of Xavi and Iniesta.
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Why do people get so worked up when the media praise anything other than Villa as though its some great big conspiracy?
I think it's a Brummy mentality thing. I wish people would get over it. Let's just enjoy out young crop of players and acknowledge that Wilshere is oustanding for 19. I still remember the threads arguing that there was some massive conspiracy because the media were saying rooney was better than the moore brothers
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i wonder if wilshere was placed in another team that didnt have the fantastic movement of arsenal, would he be hyped up as much as he is?
i know he played for bolton for a while, who also have reasonable movement under coyle, and he did reasonably well there, but he wasnt as good as he is now at arsenal, and even now at arsenal, he does go missing in games, etc... that is expected of young players for those that understand youth football and development... but now, as a young english player at arsenal, everything he does that is even remotely half decent is praised as a touch of genius... simple passes that are made on a game by game basis by thousands of players throughout the world are hailed as brilliance...
the game at arsenal, at all levels, is pretty much set up for pass and move, and that benefits the midfielders immensely..
looking at wilshere when next to lampard for england, (and gibbs in a previous england game), when that movement was lacking, they both looked distinctly average.. lampard has been doing that all his career when he played out of his club comfort zone, and i wonder whether a lot of wilsheres talent and praise comes from the set up around him...
dont get me wrong, i think he has talent and seems an intelligent and composed player on the ball, but apart from having a bit more pace, he doesnt really remind me of anything other than gareth barry coming through at the age of 17 years old , but having better players around him to suit his game...
so does that mean that wilshere is actually more benefitting from the movement around him, or from his own ability?
so that begs the question, is wilshere actually as good as some people think he is...
he had a very good game against barcelona, but the players actual performance was over stated due to his age, and the oppositon (who were below par)... and the media and some fans think he was amazing due to those factors... which means that his performance was overhyped... just like the last second coming, gareth bale...
wilshere made 46 passes against barca, 19 of those were forward, and none of them created a goal... nor did he score... xavi and iniesta were in treble figures... (i think pique made more than wilshere)... and all made more forward passes than wilshere actually passed...
while he had a really good game, the hype about him, and his performance, is yet again, over stated by morons like tony gale (and this is a man who once said that villa werent the better side when we battered his ex club blackburn 4-0... yea, burminum... cock)...
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Tony Gale is the same arsehole who insisted Blackburn were a better side on the night, and in general, than the Villa team that had just beaten them 4-0 on their own pitch.
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The immortalization of Jack Wilshere, as good as he is our could be, is exactly the reason why the English national team will never be anything ever again. The national media is so desperate for a "saviour" that it will smother this very good player to the point of suffocation. Instead of trying to develop 20 Jack Wilshere's as they have done in Spain or Germany, we'll expect him to do and be everything, and place him a higher and higher pedestal, just waiting for it to teeter, then topple.
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[ I still remember the threads arguing that there was some massive conspiracy because the media were saying rooney was better than the moore brothers
So do I. How Luke Moore played Rooney off the park whenever they'd shared it and how Moore was this great natural finisher after that Boro game. He wasn't and he was never going to be.
We all get a little over excited at times but that was delusional.
As for Wilshire, TV is is right. Leave him to develop and he'll be a good player. Expect him to do and be everything and he'll always come up short. But that's the medias game all along.
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Why would you think that I am paranoid when you don't even know me? Please read the post again and see that the reference was to the ott comments about Wilshire's age I can see for myself the promise of the player as I have for all young players over the years: Trevor Francis being one doing the business at sixteen as distateful as it may be to some, also Paul Gascoigne being another, magnificent talents both of them. There will always be the hyperbole surrounding precocious talent I could go on. As for seeeking something to moan about if you knew me you would know that I am one of lifes happy people and only post on here for the entertainment value and dislike the frequent personal attacks by you and others if you disagree with what is being said. As it says in H & V headings" enjoy yourselves and have fun"
Watched Tony Gale on SSN this morning creaming himself about Jack Wilshire on Wednesday night v Barca. and him only being nineteen. Someone should remind him that Sid was doing it in the old first division on muddy pitches firstly at seventeen and then as a regular at eighteen and was every bit as good and in my opinion better, than Wilshire is now and possibly likely to be. It's sad to think that Sid played for the wrong club in the eyes of the biased media, otherwise (broken leg apart) he would have been up there with those close to three figure cap holders.
That's right, because pundits should always stop and think when asked to comment about a player "before I answer, can I possibly make reference to an Aston Villa player from more than 20 years ago? I mean, the player I'm being paid to comment on has nothing to do with Aston Villa - and you'd imagine that the people who are paying me probably want me to talk about the player I'm being paid to comment on - but I'd hate to be thought of as a Sky-4-wankfester by some paranoid Villa fans who are trawling the media for things to feel wounded about."
I took issue with your post, not your personality.
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half decent english player gets over hyped scenario
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I listen to the Tuesday Club podcast mainly because I find Alan Davies funny and he and his cronies all agreed that Wilshire has been Arsenal's best player this season (and this was before the Barca match).
They watch him week in and week out so they must know a thing or two. As stated numerous times above he'll be drowned by the pressure and never fulfil his potential. Hopefully with lampard and gerrard insitu he'll be able to develop under wenger's tutelage rather than in the spotlight with England for a couple of years longer.
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The best thing Wiltshire could do for his club career is to declare a distant Irish relative and defect to the Republic for his international games.
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The immortalization of Jack Wilshere, as good as he is our could be, is exactly the reason why the English national team will never be anything ever again. The national media is so desperate for a "saviour" that it will smother this very good player to the point of suffocation. Instead of trying to develop 20 Jack Wilshere's as they have done in Spain or Germany, we'll expect him to do and be everything, and place him a higher and higher pedestal, just waiting for it to teeter, then topple.
I think it's more the England national team badly needs to develop more of a passing style, and not just sideways passing but occasional crisp forward balls that actually look threatening.
Wilshere I think has the potential to be that, someone to dictate the tempo and pace of the game from the centre rather than as a number 10.
That and of course he's an English player starting every week at Arsenal, which is very rare under Wenger.
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I think he's quality and has very good potential, definitely being overhyped though.
As for England, not that I care too much, but Huddlestone and Milner should be in there alongside him tbh.
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I'd have Henderson ahead of Huddlestone if he improves his defensive side of the game a bit more.