Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sfx412 on February 07, 2011, 12:49:10 PM
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Not that Walker is ours yet, or that he's had much chance to impress, but being picked for England is no mean achievement for a bloke some fans seem to think can't defend or as some said when he joined 'is shit'.
He offers plenty to the side apart from his goals, his ability on the ball is a great escape avenue for team members under pressure and he looks very safe when he has it. As Houllier says he's got plenty to learn and as long as Spurs don't take him back could be a useful addition, he's certainly in a different class to some of the past alternatives we've taken on in the last 4 seasons in that right back berth.
Delph on the other hand seems to be in many eyes near Legend standard, which for a bloke with so much talent and prospects is in my view a tad generous for a player who tends to get injured by his over zealous tackles to say nothing of his penchant for picking up bookings. He has rarely offered anything like Walker has in the few games he's played and has not reached anything like the form he had at Leeds.
When you consider the sterling work, players like Bannan have done, I wonder if he could like many others bought for large sums may be some time developing into the legend some suggest and perhaps upstaged by others.
I did like the way he played at Leeds, he's plenty of talent and ability, but, injuries aside when will he show it. He's had chances and has not taken them. Here's hoping he does soon, we surely need the form he showed for Leeds in a Villa shirt when he gets his next chance.
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Who has said Delph is a legend? Or 'near' legend status? :-s
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I'm looking forward to seeing what Delph can do when he's fit again and has a run of games.
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Walker looks o.k to me, if Spurs want 5m for him then I'd pay that as he can only improve.
I agree Delph has a bit to prove at prem level and it's OTT to hype him up as some wonder midfielder. Would like to see him get a few chances before the season is out, can't believe we rushed him back for the Spurs game which then took him out for another month.
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Who has said Delph is a legend? Or 'near' legend status? :-s
The voices Malcolm hears.
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Delph on the other hand seems to be in many eyes near Legend standard
Grade A bollocks from the legend of talking bollocks.
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Who has said Delph is a legend? Or 'near' legend status? :-s
Not my point but its good fodder for the playground bullies I'm sure :)
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Delph on the other hand seems to be in many eyes near Legend standard
Grade A bollocks from the legend of talking bollocks.
My point exactly lol's
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Delph on the other hand seems to be in many eyes near Legend standard
Grade A bollocks from the legend of talking bollocks.
My point exactly lol's
Your point is that you're proud that you talk bollocks? Unusual.
You do seem to have a been in your bonnet about putting down Delph though. Did he p*ss in your cornflakes once? He's unproven at this level yes, but his appearences have been promising and he has earned a chance.
To say however, anybody is under the impression he is a legend is Grade A bollocks copyright Malcolm Overall.
Have I made myself more clear now?
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its been a bit difficult for delph to show his talents consistantly, considering he got injured in training, and was then rushed back by the manager because the manager was so excited to see what he could do...
i dont think delph has let the side down in any of his appearances, and has shown his ability, albeit not consistantly... which is as expected of a young player making a huge step up...
me personally, i like what i have seen of him, and i do think that he could become a top quality midfielder... there are certainly negative sides to his game that he needs to work on, but there are also huge positives also.. just like walker...
i hope both of them fulfill their potential at the villa and are here for a while...
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Delphs villa career hasn't really taken off yet and he needs a good run in the team when fully fit to see what he can do. We can't really judge him on his Leeds form as that was at a lower level- I have high hopes for him but I don't think anyone sees him as anything like a legend at this stage.
Walker will be a top class right back for many years but I'd be amazed if spurs could be tempted to sell him , and even then I expect they would be looking at nearer £10m than £5m.
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The big difference with Walker and Delph is one came here with big expectations on him and the other arrived without the same excitement. Although Delph has done nothing to dispel such hope for his future, so I suppose you could argue he gets a disproportionate amount of focus in comparison to Walker, who's probably done more in his few games for us.
Both look like top players in the making and I hope they both get there - with Villa!
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Who has said Delph is a legend? Or 'near' legend status? :-s
Not my point but its good fodder for the playground bullies I'm sure :)
You really don't give up do you?
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I suspect that the point the original poster wanted to make was that one player was signed by O'Neill ( did you know he walked out on us 5 days before the season started?) and his Villa career hasn't taken off yet and the other was brought in by Houllier. Think it was the managers he was trying to compare, not the players.
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W
Who has said Delph is a legend? Or 'near' legend status? :-s
The voices Malcolm hears.
The same ones that said Walker is shit.
Both players have a chance to make it, neither has yet.
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From the glimpses I've seen of Delph there is a lot of promise. It's understandable that people are looking forward to when that promise could be translated into moving Villa forward. But nobody knows whether he's going down the Gordon Cowans route or the Stephen Ireland. He is unproven and there's only one way to change that.
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I suspect that the point the original poster wanted to make was that one player was signed by O'Neill ( did you know he walked out on us 5 days before the season started?) and his Villa career hasn't taken off yet and the other was brought in by Houllier. Think it was the managers he was trying to compare, not the players.
That is the point of every post he makes.
I'm happy to see Walker try to help us out of a hole this season but it boils my piss that we're supporting Spurs' strategy of scrapping their reserve team and using loan deals to give their youth players experience.
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You are comparing Walker who has played the first half the season in the best team in the championship to Delph who has been injured for a year.
Delph was underused before his injury by Martin. Now he is fit he will play a part.
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Is there an option to buy Walker at the end of the season?
As i can't remember reading anything that said it was a loan with a view to a permanent deal. Really hope we can,but sure he'll be in the Spurs team after the summer.
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No option to buy as spurs rate him highly and he's only here for premiership experience, doesn't stop us making a bid but people who think we'd get him for around £5m had better start to think double that.
I agree that he will probably start in spurs 1st team next season but at least he's helped us out of a hole being here.
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If things continue to go well, I can see Walker telling Spurs he wants to stay.
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I'm sure walker would like to stay but will spurs sell and will we match their valuation us the key question- it will be expensive that's for sure and a young attacking England international full back like him will cost a lot knowing spurs.I'd be amazed if we got him less than £10m.
Remember how much glen Johnson went for?
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Chewing gum face is gonna want silly money for Walker. Hutton is shit so he will want him back anyway .......
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Actually I was trying to make a simple point that one player Walker has adopted easily and found hi,self in the England squad, whilst Delph, despite his price tag has not done much at all, and has shown me little that suggests he ever will, unless he gets his finger out.
Yet all I hear on here is the suggestion that Delph plays and he's the answer to all our midfield problems, whether it be with Makoun, Bannan, or any Tom Dick or Harry. I don't see it.
Walker on the other hand, as anyone reading the thread on his transfer is just a Spurs player, not much use, can't defend and so on. Yet he's just been called up for England.
As to the O'Neill point, very astute he did buy him at a huge cost and like many of the others once on the wage bill until Houllier did what Mon refused to, has not proved his worth.
But then I suppose on a site where the likes of Mon is idolised and the likes of Houllier is barracked and asked to quit, what more should I expect, especially from the playground monkeys with their bananas up their arses all day ;)
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Like I said, you're just trying out a different angle to criticise all things O'Neill.
Which is fair enough, but you're beginning to sound like someone who's been dumped by a lass and is trying to convince anyone who'll listen that you always hated her.
Keep it up though because you do provide mild entertainment value in an otherwise dull day at work
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That's a shame,as he's gonna become a great player. I remember we were linked with him before Spurs got him,we were probably too busy buying someone who would never play.
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Delph hasn't had the chance to prove himself Malcolm mainly because of his long term injury and fitness problems since, until he gets a run in the team fully fit we cannot really criticise or praise him to any level of certainty- what I've seen suggests he will be a great asset but we need to give him time.
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For such a supposedly simple point you don't half make a meal of trying to explain it.
If we sign Walker, and the chances are that we won't, his price tag will probably exceed that of Delph so the money argument is of no consequence.
Anyone without an agenda will look at the two and conclude that they both have potential, have both shown in flashes that they have ability and at other times that they still have a lot to learn. Then, if they were a Villa fan, you'd expect them to be hoping that the one who belongs to us does make it rather than using it as yet another opportunity to pursue a tiresome campaign to denigrate the man who signed him.
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Anyone without an agenda
Anybody without the banana/arse agenda. ;)
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Mon is idolised and the likes of Houllier is barracked and asked to quit
Although I'm far from wanting Gezza to quit, looking at the respective results under each manager, does that not at least suggest those that do have a point?
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As is common knowledge I'm no great fan of mon myself Malcolm, but your argument doesn't stand up in this case and until a fully fit delph has a long run in the team then we simply cannot say he was a bad buy from mon, he could well turn out to be a bargain.
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Actually I was trying to make a simple point that one player Walker has adopted easily and found hi,self in the England squad, whilst Delph, despite his price tag has not done much at all, and has shown me little that suggests he ever will, unless he gets his finger out.
Yet all I hear on here is the suggestion that Delph plays and he's the answer to all our midfield problems, whether it be with Makoun, Bannan, or any Tom Dick or Harry. I don't see it.
Walker on the other hand, as anyone reading the thread on his transfer is just a Spurs player, not much use, can't defend and so on. Yet he's just been called up for England.
As to the O'Neill point, very astute he did buy him at a huge cost and like many of the others once on the wage bill until Houllier did what Mon refused to, has not proved his worth.
But then I suppose on a site where the likes of Mon is idolised and the likes of Houllier is barracked and asked to quit, what more should I expect, especially from the playground monkeys with their bananas up their arses all day ;)
personally, i dont think walker deserves an england spot any more than delph does... both have had a few games in the top flight, and both have shown positive sides to their game that give a glimpse into their potential, and both have shown negative sides to their game that they need to work on...
walker plays in a position where england dont exactly have a huge quality pool to pick from, whereas delph plays in a position where we have favourites picked no matter how shit they are... and as he is just getting over a serious knee injury, and then subsequent knock from being brought back too early, its not exactly a surprise that he isnt picked... it is however, a surprise that walker has been picked...
the cost element is immaterial, as we havent purchased walker, so impossible to compare... especially as if we tried to buy him, i doubt we would pay less than what we did for fabian delph...
as mentioned before, both have potential, both have ability, and both have weaknesses... part and parcel of having young talent coming into the club...
dont get me wrong, i am not mon fan after his treatment of my club, but then again, i have my doubts about houllier too... and i dont like bananas...
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Actually I was trying to make a simple point that one player Walker has adopted easily and found hi,self in the England squad, whilst Delph, despite his price tag has not done much at all, and has shown me little that suggests he ever will, unless he gets his finger out.
Yet all I hear on here is the suggestion that Delph plays and he's the answer to all our midfield problems, whether it be with Makoun, Bannan, or any Tom Dick or Harry. I don't see it.
Walker on the other hand, as anyone reading the thread on his transfer is just a Spurs player, not much use, can't defend and so on. Yet he's just been called up for England.
As to the O'Neill point, very astute he did buy him at a huge cost and like many of the others once on the wage bill until Houllier did what Mon refused to, has not proved his worth.
But then I suppose on a site where the likes of Mon is idolised and the likes of Houllier is barracked and asked to quit, what more should I expect, especially from the playground monkeys with their bananas up their arses all day ;)
Quite difficult for Delph to really prove his worth when he's been injured for 9 months.
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But then I suppose on a site where the likes of Mon is idolised
Have you got the right site? Because I'm not seeing a lot of MON idolising on here!
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.... Walker is a young player who was signed by Spurs for a lot of money, couldn't get in the team, has been loaned out to a couple of teams, has made a bright start to his time at Villa. Delph is a young player who was signed by Villa for a lot of money, has a few first team chances last season, got a bad injury, has been feeling his way back.
They're both talented young prospects, and I'm really pleased we've got them both (for the time being at least with Walker).
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I must have been psychic.
I said to a guy at work on Saturday night - "the problem with Walker is I just can't see why the hell Spurs would sell him. To me he looks like when Micah Richards or Glen Johnson come on the scene, won't surprise me if he is in the next England Squad.
2 hours later.......
Lets face it, he wasn't that good on Saturday, but even then you could see his class.
Hope to god we can get him, but just can't see how.
re: above, I think it is harsh to say he is only picked because England have so few options. Try and buy glen Johnson and Micah Richards this summer and see how much change you get out of 50 million ?
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I'm really glad we have got them aswell albiet walker on loan (hopefully he signs fulltime) i think they have got big futures in the game, Delph's been out a long time and now he's getting a few minor injuries but when he's fit i can see him being a really good player, and with Walker he is getting his first taste of the premiership so he is going out and enjoying playing his football and gaining experience along the way.
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re: above, I think it is harsh to say he is only picked because England have so few options. Try and buy glen Johnson and Micah Richards this summer and see how much change you get out of 50 million ?
i dont really take much notice of valuations... after all, andy carroll went for £35 million plus...
personally, i dont think that either johnson or richards are that good... certainly not international class, and like walker, suspect defensively...
dont get me wrong, im not putting a downer on walker, i like the way he plays, (but understand he has areas he needs to work on), but i honestly dont think he would be picked for england at his current standard, after so few top flight games, if england had more quality available...
i hope he gets purchased at the end of the season and progresses with us...
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Walker is or will be too good to stay with us .......... he will be the England right back.
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Walker is or will be too good to stay with us .......... he will be the England right back.
Does anyone know if there is any kind of clause in Walker's loan to let us buy him at the end of it? Its never mentioned in any of the stories about him
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There isn't. Reading the Spurs forums, they reckon he will be their first choice right back next season.
Some of them were getting a bit agitated by the media refering to "Aston Villa's" Kyle Walker being selected for England. Knobs.
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You never know with Spurs.... if he's that good, why isn't he playing for them? He's barely got a look-in at Spurs and they've hardly got top-class right backs ahead of him; Hutton's okay, Corluka who's probably better at centre-back. Spurs have also got Kyle Naughton, similar age, and he's been loaned out. If they're in the CL again next season, I can see Harry buying an established senior RB instead for next season.
Only thing is, getting an England call-up will drive his price up if Spurs were willing to sell, which is a pain.
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Phil Neville.
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You never know with Spurs.... if he's that good, why isn't he playing for them? He's barely got a look-in at Spurs and they've hardly got top-class right backs ahead of him; Hutton's okay, Corluka who's probably better at centre-back. Spurs have also got Kyle Naughton, similar age, and he's been loaned out. If they're in the CL again next season, I can see Harry buying an established senior RB instead for next season.
Only thing is, getting an England call-up will drive his price up if Spurs were willing to sell, which is a pain.
For Spurs it is about their young players getting experience of high level football. Even the very best defenders have to go through a period of making mistakes through inexperience.
Spurs have been quite open about the fact that they are saving money through a strategy of scrapping their reserve team and sending their young players out on loan.
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Yeah, I know how loans work, thanks..... ;)
Just pointing out it's not a given Spurs will keep Walker. Hutton was seen as a stand-in RB, he's been there all season and despite the extra football they've been playing - Champions League, etc - Walker hasn't even been used as back-up. So, he may have a future, he may not. If he's not first choice for Spurs next season, will he be happy being on the bench, or will he agitate for a move to us, if he's been given the encouragement that he'll be No.1? Not a foregone conclusion that he's out of reach just yet, I don't think.
Now - substitutions. How do they work?
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Yeah, I know how loans work, thanks..... ;)
Just pointing out it's not a given Spurs will keep Walker. Hutton was seen as a stand-in RB, he's been there all season and despite the extra football they've been playing - Champions League, etc - Walker hasn't even been used as back-up. So, he may have a future, he may not. If he's not first choice for Spurs next season, will he be happy being on the bench, or will he agitate for a move to us, if he's been given the encouragement that he'll be No.1? Not a foregone conclusion that he's out of reach just yet, I don't think.
Now - substitutions. How do they work?
Wasnt the reason he went to Spurs that Sheff Utd were looking to sell both as him and Naughton as a pair - bit like those supermarket deal - and it was Naughton Spurs were really after?
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Yeah, I know how loans work, thanks..... ;)
Just pointing out it's not a given Spurs will keep Walker. Hutton was seen as a stand-in RB, he's been there all season and despite the extra football they've been playing - Champions League, etc - Walker hasn't even been used as back-up. So, he may have a future, he may not. If he's not first choice for Spurs next season, will he be happy being on the bench, or will he agitate for a move to us, if he's been given the encouragement that he'll be No.1? Not a foregone conclusion that he's out of reach just yet, I don't think.
Now - substitutions. How do they work?
It was the "if he's that good, why isn't he playing for them?" bit that threw me.
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How so? I guess it was a bit of a case of typing faster than I was thinking and he's only 20, so of course, he's still learning. My angle of thinking was that, judging by a lot of what I've read about Spurs this season, right-back is their major area of weakness. Walker looks promising but I think his England call-up is premature and as for those Spurs fans saying he'll be their No.1 next season.... I'm not convinced. Yet.
If he has a shocker for England it'll be interesting to see if opinion changes.
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any idea how long delph is expected to be out?
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any idea how long delph is expected to be out?
Wasn't he on the subs bench at Blackburn?
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hes back fit, but they dont want to put him in too early and damage him again, which happened at man city...
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No option to buy then.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/02/09/aston-villa-no-option-to-buy-clause-in-kyle-walker-loan-contract-97319-28141290/
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Given that Walker will probably not be released to us by "Face-like-boiling-porridge", I'd suggest that we bring Delph in at RB - I'm sure his tenacity and muscularity would make him a perfect candidate for the role, and leave the midfield for Bananaman, Makoun and Bradley ...
... sorry, just reading from my MON manual on football tactics.