Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on February 01, 2011, 06:22:46 PM
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Available Tuesday night.
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Bah.
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Can't concede sloppy first minute goals there and expect anything else than a beating.
Makoun looks quality.
Bent did what Bent does.
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Defensively awful, but going forward and in possession we looked good I thought.
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The way i'm looking at this is that utd are unbeaten in the league this season and have only drawn one at Old Trafford, so for us to have got a result, even a draw, would have been massive. The Fact that we've lost is no massive surprise, and definitely not something i'm too worried about, we've not put in a dreadful performance, and i'm sure we can get back to winning ways against Fulham.
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Shot ourselves in the foot by conceding at the worst possible times. 1st minute, stroke of HT and immediately after we scored to get back in it. Not good enough.
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Far too comfortable for them. This 4-5-1 thing just doesn't work, and hasn't worked all season. Can we try something else please? Oh and Dunne is back to his fat, shit worst after a brief respite.
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I've seen better tbh.
If it weren't for Brad the scoreline could have got embarrassing!
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Beaten by the better team, but plenty of positives to take out of it.
Another goal for Bent, one clear cut chance, one goal.
Makoun looks the real deal. Very classy on the ball, a few more games and he could be some player.
Plenty to build on.
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We weren't awful, but their quality showed. Not embaressed - let's move on & keep winning.
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it looked like we were beaten before we got off the coach
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And why Bannan wasn't brought on, I will never understand. Shocking.
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Not surprised we lost tbh, but I would love to know why we spent the last 5 minutes passing it across the halfway line over and over again as if we were defending a lead?
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Was never in doubt from the first second, never mind the 54th second. They were in complete control for all of the match. We had absolutely nothing to worry them and they toyed with us like a sick kitten. When we did go close to redressing the balance, when they needed a goal, they merely plucked it from the trees. They never broke sweat and they made us look like what we are, lower mid-table chaff.
Positives: Makoun had a good game. He looks like a clever player, with vision and the ability to keep hold of a football.
Bent's goal gives him a 1 in 2 ratio, which is nice.
Wholly expected result and now the hard work continues of avoiding relegation.
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Makoun played well.
Dunne, Petrov and Downing were cack.
Need a win Saturday.
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We played well for much of the game. However, this is another game where we have been caught with our pants down right out of the gate, and whether you're playing Man U, Man City or anoyone else at this level, it's going to make life very hard indeed. Still, we now enter a span of 10 or 11 games that are very winnable and we have to start that on Saturday. Today's result was somewhat expected, but we now expect a win on Saturday to follow this up.
Well done Brad, well done Benty. Lots and lots of work to do besides.
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Promising from Makoun. Another typical Bent goal out of nothing bodes well. Brad saved our blushes. Pretty much everyone else abjectly shit. Played a bit in the first half and had we not been sucker punched it might have gone a different way.
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I am trying hard to care either way. We had a go, we lost. Next
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Disappointing to lose obviously, defence needs to stop being done by balls over the top. However I was impressed by how much football we tried to play and Makoun really impressed me and was very assured. Bent again scored, which is great. We also gave it a real go. So once Houlliers signings have settled I'm confident will do be pretty good.
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Beaten by a vastly superior team.
No arguements with that scoreline.
Makoun looking good...Petrov Young and Downing not.
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Lost it in the first half but a number of promising signs. We have the potential to be a good attractive side. Makoun does look quality and showed Petrov up tonight as a past it. Bent will always score goals. Not sure what to think about Young's performance - still prefer him on the wing and would have liked to have seen Bent and Heskey up front for a bit longer. We will get better.
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I thought we played well, silly mistakes cost us yet again. Let's push on now with the 'easier' games that we have and get up the table.
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Oh and also Petrov needs to go now, he is completely anonymous.
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Far too comfortable for them. This 4-5-1 thing just doesn't work, and hasn't worked all season. Can we try something else please? Oh and Dunne is back to his fat, shit worst after a brief respite.
Only at fault for one of the goals, and put a great tackle in on Rooney in the second half. Think thats a bit harsh.
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We couldn't have conceded those goals in the first half at worst times and we ain't good enough to be giving teams like Man Ure 2 goal head starts.
On the positive side we showed some spirit second half and matched them goal-wise at least with a very impressive performance from Makoun.
Nice to see that Bent fella show why we paid all that money for him to!
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Makoun was a positive, Bent clinical, Brad kept the score down, Dunne ropey 1st half, Petrov was lost, Downing poor, Young flounced round pretending to be world class once again.
They played in 1st gear after we gifted them 2 goals. Ah well, onwards we go.
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Friedel really helped keep the score down tonight, so well done to him.
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well no doubt it will go into a meltdown of dispair on here. but I thought we did ok. bye bye petrov for bradley.
big plus point is Bent. I do love a do nothing striker who scores.
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Decided to avoid the match thread to make my own mind about things tonight. Watching 80 minutes of it short of a bad stream at times.
Thoughts - we passed the ball quite well. Makoun will be a super player, always has the next ball he is going to play sorted when he takes possession. Good goal by Bent, and undone by poor defending, but all round quite an encouraging display and good to see us constantly getting forward and keeping the ball well enough to do so. Well done Brad Snr.
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Oh and also Petrov needs to go now, he is completely anonymous.
This, with knobs on.
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Never really looked like winning, but didn't give up and for four minutes dragged ourselves back into it.
We could have caved in but didn't, so that's the positive for me.
Certainly need to be more enterprising in the last 3rd.
Jean Deux looks like a very tidy.
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Well we were beaten by a team who are going to win the league.
passed the ball around well but did sod all with it except for the goal.
poor at the back and poor going forward but ok in the middle but pretty triangles dont win you matches.
we arent going to go down but we really need to fight hard and start creating more chances for bent. it seems as though when we had a poor gabby or goal shy heskey up front we created lots but never scored.... now with a decent finisher we only create 1 chance and scores.
WE NEED TO CREATE MORE CHANCES, then we'll start to win more games comfortably
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Makoun - not bad, not bad at all son.
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Far too comfortable for them. This 4-5-1 thing just doesn't work, and hasn't worked all season. Can we try something else please? Oh and Dunne is back to his fat, shit worst after a brief respite.
Only at fault for one of the goals, and put a great tackle in on Rooney in the second half. Think thats a bit harsh.
Should have conceded a penalty, fell on his fat arse whilst trying to do god knows what. He's a liabilty.
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this team will achieve nothing with Downing on the pitch and Young playing in the middle
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Negatives:
We lost.
Defence iffy again
Stupid times to concede goals.
Positives:
We played very well for great swathes of the match
We passed the ball better than Ive seen us do so for ages, and lost possession rarely
Darren Bent scored again
Makoun looks like the sort of midfielder we've missed for a while.
We didn't let our heads drop after conceding a goal on 50 seconds.
It's all very well moaning that they were much the better side - they're currently waltzing away with the league, what do we really expect? Anyone who thought we were going to win that game tonight is off their rocker.
The most important thing was to show some positives to take into our easier run of fixtures now, and not to take a sufficiently large beating to knock our confidence, and that's exactly what we have done.
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Makoun = Essien :)
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Onwards and upwards. We now a run of games where we could pick up a good deal of points.
Our style of play is really beginning to change now
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From what i saw.
Stupid goal to give away in the 1st minute.
Then we kept the ball well, but the final ball was not good enough.Bent will score given the service, Makoun looks a good player, Albrighton , not there yet.Expect better quality final passes from AYoung and Downing.
The difference for me was the 2nd goal, the ball from Nani was top quality, not sure Downing or AYoung in that position would have delivered such a pass.
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I thought we looked good tonight, much better in possession, chances created apart, lots of positives to take from tonight, gifting early goal made it easier for them, cut out the silly mistakes and play like that against most other teams we will do well
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Thankfully all the other results went perfectly in our favour so no real harm done. Next.
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Can't say Im too fussed really, it was expected and more importantly we have played 5 out of the top 6 this season so we can push on now with 'easier' games! Bring on Fulham!
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Am I the only one who thought Downing did well tonight?
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I thought Downing was okay and Makoun looked promising.
Kyle Walker looked like a Championship player or Spurs reserve at best.
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As I see it anything tonight was always going to be a bonus. Our results over the next half a dozen games are the ones to focus on. Teams we should be beating if we're to recover from the nightmare season to Xmas. A few positives from tonight but I'm not going to be losing sleep or slitting my wrists like some will be.
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We had a decent go at them but were beaten by a top class side finding their best form. There's bound to be the usual nonsensical over reaction but I think there's plenty to positive about.
Makoun looks the business to me.
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Far too comfortable for them. This 4-5-1 thing just doesn't work, and hasn't worked all season. Can we try something else please? Oh and Dunne is back to his fat, shit worst after a brief respite.
Only at fault for one of the goals, and put a great tackle in on Rooney in the second half. Think thats a bit harsh.
Should have conceded a penalty, fell on his fat arse whilst trying to do god knows what. He's a liabilty.
A few others had bad games too. To single him out, is harsh.
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3-1 and Friedel was man of the match.
We did some nice be ineffective things.
Man Utd at hoome do that kind of thing to most teams, let's see what happens now we have our "easy" run of games.
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Disappointing but a few positives; Makoun - excellent, Bent - Goal, Big Brad, movement and passing promising.
Negatives, shabby defending again, Young busy but ineffective and Petrov.... Petrov is like a shopping trolley with a wonkey wheel. You push it forwards then it veers left and then backwards. You then realise it's completely useless and it's best to leave it in the multi storey.
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I thought we played ok at times but they're a far better team than us & it showed. We're a team in transition & to get anything there you need to be at the top of your game.
Positives.... Makoun looked comfortable & it looks like there is a good player in him when he settles in properly.
Bent, one chance one goal
2-0 down at half time & we never gave up.
Negatives..... Petrov, too slow, past it, sell in the summer.
Not picking up the second ball enough.
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3-1 and Friedel was man of the match.
We did some nice be ineffective things.
Man Utd at hoome do that kind of thing to most teams, let's see what happens now we have our "easy" run of games.
i dont want to put a downer on our next run of games but dont we normally struggle against this sort of opposition?
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Am I the only one who thought Downing did well tonight?
Think I posted at the same time, he appears to be the latest boo boy who can do no right, I too thought he played well.
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Would anyone have preferred us to play as we would have done against Man Utd under O'Neill?
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Am I the only one who thought Downing did well tonight?
Think I posted at the same time, he appears to be the latest boo boy who can do no right, I too thought he played well.
i thought so too, better than young and albrighton
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Makoun looked great, needs to have someone just as quick thinking him, besides him. Lets hope Bradley turns out to be that player.
Have to agree with some posters on the match thread, that maybe Ashley is more hinderence then help. If people are still talking £18m + in the summer then cash in. I'm sure there are plenty of tricky wingers in GH's little black book, that would love to come and prove themselves in the Prem.
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We gave it a good go against a top top team, early goal
was costly but we battled hard and plenty of nice passing and spirit and heart in the team, nice goal for benty- very impressed with makoun - now 11 games in a row against teams from outside the top 7.
Plenty of positives - bring on fulham!
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Only caught bits due to the dodgy stream. A pity that we didn't start to have a real go until we went two down. Makoun looks great with the ball, hopefully Bradley can add a bit more grit. By all accounts he can, plus not afraid to shoot. Jean II will always look to give the ball and move into space so that pairing is an intriuguing prospect.
Obviously you never want to concede but they killed us with the timing of their goals. A fair bit of luck with the deflection for Vidic's one that killed us off.
And what a difference having Bent as opposed to Carew makes. Holding the ball up, spotting the right pass, making the right runs and most importantly of all scoring when he has half a chance.
Fulham is really big now. They'll be up for it after their result over Spurs (not sure who they have tomorrow) and Hughes tends to do well against us. We owe them for their last second equaliser in November.
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We had a decent go at them but were beaten by a top class side finding their best form. There's bound to be the usual nonsensical over reaction but I think there's plenty to positive about.
Makoun looks the business to me.
Spot on. All the 4-5-1 doesn't work crap annoys me too. We were fecking horrible to watch playing 4-4-2 for the last 2 years, and got some lucky, some deserved and some just attritional results.
Calling for Bannan - why damage his confidence after 90 minutes at the weekend, away at Old Trafford? Horses for courses so to speak, but thought we did ok, and the 4-5-1 is a work in progress that will take a while to settle and become something we are comfortable with. We will be fine, and we are moving in the right direction. It was predictable that some would be doom and glooming tonight.
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Agree, petrov was the weakest player on the pitch by quite a distance, he just doesn't have the mobility to play in the middle in such a competitive league, would be fine in a slower league but we really should cash in in the summer and build a side around 2 from makoun, delph, bannan and bradley (or a new guy if bradley doesn't prove as good as I think) as the central pairing.
Albrighton isn't a left winger, young isn't a forward and downing isn't a right winger, if we're going to play them together it has to be: young left, downing central and albrighton right.
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Makoun looked pretty good. Would like to see him play with Bradley and Bannan (and I don't mean the bloke from EastEnders who looked like our CEO!) which would be a great middle three.
We just need to pick the right front three.
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We had a decent go at them but were beaten by a top class side finding their best form. There's bound to be the usual nonsensical over reaction but I think there's plenty to positive about.
Makoun looks the business to me.
Agree 100%.
I said that about Makoun after Wigan as well. First 20 minutes at Wigan he was great, he went in his shell after he got booked. Couldn't believe some people were knocking him after one (incomplete) game.
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Bradley and Makoun in the middle from now on - Petrov hasn't the legs anymore. I'd like to see the Fonz given a run. Carlos and Clark at the back - Luke Young at left back (when fit) Not the worst result.
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Far too comfortable for them. This 4-5-1 thing just doesn't work, and hasn't worked all season. Can we try something else please? Oh and Dunne is back to his fat, shit worst after a brief respite.
diabolical error for the first goal alright but aside from that Dunne was decent I thought. Clark really struggled tonight as did Walker in the first half. Colllins was awful in the second half I thought. But Houllier's tactics were all wrong. We cannot afford to play both Downing and Albrighton away from home at places like Old Trafford. Downing was a disgrace tonight assist or not. He jumped out of every thing including crucially just before their third goal. He didnt bother his arse helping either full back tonight and of course is so slow he will never beat anyone. He is a player I wouldnt mind moving on in the summer to be honest.
Big plus was Makoun tonight he was excellent and the best midfielder on the park. Petrov's lack of pace was exposed again. Not starting Reo Coker was another huge mistake from Houllier. Id always start him in these games. Petrov should only be a sub from now on. Good to bring on but not start. Albrighton was poor really but young players like him will always be inconsistent performance wise. I wouldnt have started him tonight either. Ashley Young in the hole - what can you say. It must be an attempt to keep him at the club. He was far more effective when he went wide. To be fair he had a great touch in the build up to Bent's goal. One which Downing would certainly have jumped out of. Hit the crossbar too and pinged in a couple of crosses when he went wide. Bent scored but was terrible in the first half I felt. Better after the break alright. All three subs did alright when they came on and should have been introduced much sooner.
Im not a huge Brad Friedel fan but he made some great saves tonight. 3-1 was about right I felt.
Certainly the way Collins played in the second half would have me considering to bring Cuellar back in for Fulham. Clark had a really tough time tonight and would also consider bringing Warnock back in for a game or two. Ashley Young must simply play wide. Makoun and Reo Coker for Fulham, might be too soon to start Bradley in the centre but Id bring him on the right for the game if he is fit. Gabby doesnt look fully fit so Heskey to partner Bent up front.
Friedel 8
Walker 6
Dunne 6
Collins 4
Clark 3
Albrighton 4
Makoun 8
Petrov 4
Downing 3
Young 5
Bent 6
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3-1 and Friedel was man of the match.
We did some nice be ineffective things.
Man Utd at hoome do that kind of thing to most teams, let's see what happens now we have our "easy" run of games.
i dont want to put a downer on our next run of games but dont we normally struggle against this sort of opposition?
I think that might be a myth, that isn't helped by some of our poor home form of recent years. This season we've beaten Albion, Blackpool, Wigan, Everton, West Ham, Wolves, and we really should have beaten Fulham and Stoke. These are the types of teams we'll be playing over the next few weeks. We need a minimum of 4 wins to be safe, and then we can go from there.
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Walker will not prosper with Collins at right CB ... Cuellar provides much better cover for an attacking FB.
Downing - the enigma: he is definitely a good footballer but he is not currently providing enough IMHO, and I think both him and AY are a littletoo up themselves. I'd cash in on both of them in July and give the opportunities to the emerging talent in our squad and youth set-up; after all, there are plenty of candidates to have a go in the first team.
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Not surprised we lost tbh, but I would love to know why we spent the last 5 minutes passing it across the halfway line over and over again as if we were defending a lead?
To stop them having it and getting a 4th.
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Downing 3
Ridiculous. If you gave Bent a 6 for presumably scoring, then Downing's assist for it should have him on a similar score.
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Downing was at fault for their third just when we were getting back in it, he should have jumped with Vidic for the header then backed off and ball watched. Makoun was great only one stray pass all day but Petrov shaking his head when coming off wasn't a good sight, he really is too slow now and needs replacing. We played the best team in the Prem by far probably the best in Europe on form with players that are world class, Rooney looked the sharpest i've seen him for ages, Berbatov and Nani are brilliant so our performace was credible, don't expect too much too soon. I thought at the start of the season United may struggle shows how much i know.
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The thing about the likes of NRC, Dunne, Petrov etc. They are what remains of the previous regime, and I don't think they'll be part of Houllier's Villa after the summer. They've served their purpose, but they're just not good enough for the next stage. The kids, plus players like Bradley and Makoun are the future, and I'd expect a good number of MON's players (even Ash if the right bid comes in) to be gone by August.
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I thought Ure played well tonight, and th efact that they HAD to play well says a lot about how far we have come.
The Villa move , when Bent fell over in the box, was top quality.
Makoun was the best midfielder on the pitch, Downing for me was in and out, looked really good at times, but was let down a lot by his final ball.
AYoung, as someone else said ealier, flounced about as if he was world class, i think hes starting to believe his own hype.
Apart from the 1st goal , i thought Dunne played well, Clark played ok,out of position, and i did'nt think Walker was that bad either.
There were signs tonight that we were playing more football,if we will play like that against most teams, we will win the games.
Don't like losing to them, buti'm not too disappointed tonight.
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never watched the game,computer to slow! but sound like Makoun had a good game and another goal from bent on the positive side! was always going to be a hard game tonight so the result aint to much of a suprise! Neva mind some better fixtures now if there is such a thing in this league,so hopefully a back to winning ways saturday!!
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Am I the only one who thought Downing did well tonight?
again i thought downing was a plus.
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To be fair as long as the management have seen what we have re: Petrov, Colins and Dunne then the future is bright if he can bring in players of the calibre of Makoun. I'm excited and optimistic.
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I thought Ure played well tonight, ........
I'm amazed you have posted without three lines of blank space at the start. Have you finally changed your browser/PC/phone? <wink>
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Thought we looked good up to the final third, Utd were as good going forward as any team I've seen this season. A big slap on the back for Friedel who made a couple of excellent saves. Makoun looks combative and comfortable on the ball, bodes well for when he settles in properly. Hand on heart, I expected to lose but I'm pleased we didnt fall to pieces and kept trying to take the game to them. Onwards and upwards
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It's no disgrace to lose at OT. Just silly mistakes can cost you so much. We'll play worse and win. Great by Bent tonight - he will score the goals we need for safety (yes, we're not out the wood yet with such a tight league). Bent is a snip compared to Torres and Carroll!
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Downing 3
Ridiculous. If you gave Bent a 6 for presumably scoring, then Downing's assist for it should have him on a similar score.
Downing was a disgrace to the shirt tonight. I lost count of the amount of tackles he jumped out of, how many balls he conveniently let over his head so there was a 2 v 1 against an inexperienced full back each time. Everything about him tonight was half hearted and cowardly. Almost every pass was the conservative one too - the player who took on Wes Brown repeatedly at Villa Park has been replaced with a man with the spine of a jellyfish. The assist can only make up for so much.
Bent was dangerous enough in the second half I felt including getting in the position for his goal. You just know Heskey or Gabby would have been 10 yards behind the play.
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Can't see why downing is being singled out for criticism- he played well and is a far better and much improved player than last season- get off his back!
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Can't see why downing is being singled out for criticism- he played well and is acfar better and much improved player than last season- get off his back!
Neither can I.
"Disgrace to the shirt"? What a load of pointless hyperbole.
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The Downing debate continues, a great cross for our goal, ran with the ball welll but no end product, just to happy to give the ball up with a poor cross or shot, jumping out of inocuos chalenges as usual, if he plays it should be on the left, but Young is better there. Downing plays like he dosent give a fuck.
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Can't see why downing is being singled out for criticism- he played well and is acfar better and much improved player than last season- get off his back!
Neither can I.
"Disgrace to the shirt"? What a load of pointless hyperbole.
Couldn't agree more.
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"All he did was set up the goal"
That sounds a bit "what have the Romans done for us?" to me.
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I thought Downing was just awful against Man City, but thought he was one of our better players tonight.
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Petrov needs to realise he is past it, I'd drop him for his petulance.
Makoun looks real quality.
Bent is actually shit, but he will score goals and always draw 2 defenders, so is worth it.
Ash looked twice tge player when he was playing out wide.
Man U are class, any talk of 'they aren't playing well' is bollocks. The stats show how good they are with goals scored, conceded and wins etc.
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Would anyone have preferred us to play as we would have done against Man Utd under O'Neill?
No.
Once Hotlips gets all the players he wants and gels them into the team he wants we will get results in games like these while playing good football.
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There are some very odd comments on here tonight. It's clear that Utd are finding their second-half-of-the-season style like they always seem to do. When you think that Vidic and Ferdinand were back, Rooney back to his near best (yes it was poor defending for the first goal but what a touch and finish), Giggs playing like a spring chicken and Nani almost unplayable on the left, then I'm not surprised we lost (with three new guys still finding their feet) - but to say we were rubbish is a tad over the top. Downing wasn't anything like as bad as people make out, his cross for the goal was as good as any you'll see. We lost goals at key moments, which would have knocked the stuffing out of many teams but we kept trying to play some football. No doubt who's going to win the league in my mind. They would have beaten anybody tonight, and probably by more.
Anyway, for all you whingers about Downing, it looks like he has picked up a knock, so you may get your wish on Saturday.
And did anyone notice, looks like Petrov has bought himself a one-way ticket out of Villa Park with his reaction at being subbed. The most disappointing moment of the game for me and unbecoming of a captain. I suspect our Gerard will be having a word.
Oh and Trevor Francis was nice about us in commentary.
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Didn't Downing play the ball through for Bent for the move that could have been a Pen against Bent just after half time?
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Can't see why downing is being singled out for criticism- he played well and is acfar better and much improved player than last season- get off his back!
Neither can I.
"Disgrace to the shirt"? What a load of pointless hyperbole.
Agree, get off his back for goodness sake. Didn't see the game tonight but thought some of the criticism he was getting at Wigan last week was bang out of order. Yes, he did bottle a couple of challenges. But he was involved throughout and made some excellent runs and passes. If he keeps that up I can live with him not diving in for every 50-50 challenge. Don't know why he's being singled out by so many people.
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Petrov needs to realise he is past it, I'd drop him for his petulance.
Makoun looks real quality.
Bent is actually shit, but he will score goals and always draw 2 defenders, so is worth it.
Ash looked twice tge player when he was playing out wide.
Man U are class, any talk of 'they aren't playing well' is bollocks. The stats show how good they are with goals scored, conceded and wins etc.
'Bent is actually shit'??? What a stupid dumb comment!!
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It's my fault lads I left without my lucky jumper.
Seriously though its my fault!
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Am I the only one who thought Downing did well tonight?
Nope, Charlie Nicholas said he was Villa's best player.
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I got stick last week for saying Downing was the new scapegoat. However same again this week.... "Disgrace to the shirt", "Doesn't give a fuck".
Laughable when you think he could very well be our most consistent player this season.
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It's no disgrace to lose at OT. Just silly mistakes can cost you so much. We'll play worse and win. Great by Bent tonight - he will score the goals we need for safety (yes, we're not out the wood yet with such a tight league). Bent is a snip compared to Torres and Carroll!
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it is always a disgrace for the Villa to lose a match anywhere.
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Would anyone have preferred us to play as we would have done against Man Utd under O'Neill?
No.
Once Hotlips gets all the players he wants and gels them into the team he wants we will get results in games like these while playing good football.
I agree, despite the fact we won at Old Trafford last season, it was only transitory, it wasn't as part of something building up to a better long term goal (and the fact we won seems to overshadow our other abysmal results against them under Martin).
I can not believe anyone could watch the way we played tonight and not see very, very firm evidence of the way GH wants us to play finally setting in.
We passed the ball and moved off it far better than we have done for a while. If that is building up to taking us to a better place, then I am willing to put up with results like tonight and the road bumps along the way.
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i guess the fact that he does get singled out by so many people is a clue. I dont get why so many rush to his defence.
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What did petrov do?
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Bent is actually shit, but he will score goals and always draw 2 defenders, so is worth it.
'Bent is actually shit'??? What a stupid dumb comment!!
I would compare Bent to an English Torres. Will not do much for the team but will score a goal from one chance in the match. Luckily he has cost us less then half the Spanish version.
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Positives: We played like a team and kept going to the end. Bent will always do the business when given the chance. All good for the future.
Concerns: GH picked the wrong team. Big concern.
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Why isn't Cuellar playing in the middle of defence? We always concede loads of goals when Cuellar's not playing in the middle of defence.
Going by teh stats we looked like we played well though, Bent scores again which is really good... got to beat those Cottagers on Saturday.
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"All he did was set up the goal"
That sounds a bit "what have the Romans done for us?" to me.
You'd be right if the game only lasted 1 minute.
Big Brad and Makoun stood out with solid performances. JIIM was a class apart tonight. Looked very comfortable with the ball, keeping it moving.
The rest: Eunuchs. Terrified of Man Utd. The amount of space we gave them was shocking. I'm just glad it was only 3 goals we suffered. Thank god they never stepped it up a gear or two.
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Downing 3
Ridiculous. If you gave Bent a 6 for presumably scoring, then Downing's assist for it should have him on a similar score.
Downing was a disgrace to the shirt tonight. I lost count of the amount of tackles he jumped out of, how many balls he conveniently let over his head so there was a 2 v 1 against an inexperienced full back each time. Everything about him tonight was half hearted and cowardly. Almost every pass was the conservative one too - the player who took on Wes Brown repeatedly at Villa Park has been replaced with a man with the spine of a jellyfish. The assist can only make up for so much.
Bent was dangerous enough in the second half I felt including getting in the position for his goal. You just know Heskey or Gabby would have been 10 yards behind the play.
You must have watched a different game to me. In the first half hour Downing was one of our most positive players, and one bit of defending in the first half was top class. If Downing was a disgrace I dread to think what you made of the half a dozen other of his team mates who did less tonight. Unless you just do not like Downing. Of course.
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i guess the fact that he does get singled out by so many people is a clue. I dont get why so many rush to his defence.
Because we don't agree with you perhaps? 80% odd wanted Houllier sacked at the start of January. Now it's at around 6%.
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I would pick this team for next game.
Friedel
Walker Cuellar Collins Clark
Bradley Makoun Reo Coker
Albrighton Downing
Bent
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Collins is great at throwing himself in front of shots and always gives 100 percent, but he worries me far more than a centre half should do.
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I thought we played ok tonight. Think the difference was in the final 3rd though. Walker still concerns me defensively, but I was really impressed by Makoun again.
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Collins is great at throwing himself in front of shots and always gives 100 percent, but he worries me far more than a centre half should do.
Agree, he is very much a last ditch defender, i like his attitude but question his composure
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If somebody had threatened to snap my hands off before the game, I would.... hang on
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What did petrov do?
Shaking his head in disgust at being subbed, like he did at Sunderland away in the league cup last year.
He looked like a pub player compared to Makoun.
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I would pick this team for next game.
Friedel
Walker Cuellar Collins Clark
Bradley Makoun Reo Coker
Albrighton Downing
Bent
swap young for Downing and i am ok with that
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My other issue was with the 1st goal in that no-one stood in front of Van Der Sar to delay the free-kick. Get told to things like that in Sunday league football!!
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i guess the fact that he does get singled out by so many people is a clue. I dont get why so many rush to his defence.
I hope you appreciate that works both ways?
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i guess the fact that he does get singled out by so many people is a clue. I dont get why so many rush to his defence.
I hope you appreciate that works both ways?
yes it was in respose to i dont understand why he gets so much stick
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Man U are on a roll so didn't expect anything from this.
We are starting to pass it around nicely but still lack the final ball. Good finish by Bent.
Wasted free kicks again.
Get Young back on the wing and I wish he would stop running into 3 or 4 defenders. Petrov was slow.
Now a run of winnable games, onwards and upwards.
Only Arsenal away left out of the top 4.
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pls don't tell me Vidic scored a header from a corner...
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Collins is great at throwing himself in front of shots and always gives 100 percent, but he worries me far more than a centre half should do.
Agree, he is very much a last ditch defender, i like his attitude but question his composure
Of course you like his attitude as you seem to want every player on the pitch to be diving in on every ball.
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Haven't seen the Petrov strop but we're entitled to expect better from our captain - grow up Stan. As I heard GH say in his post-match interview, players need to leave their egos in the dressing room - the team comes first.
Full interview here: http://t.co/RW6rEvt
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pls don't tell me Vidic scored a header from a corner...
No a shot from the edge of the box from a Rooney layoff.
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Collins is great at throwing himself in front of shots and always gives 100 percent, but he worries me far more than a centre half should do.
Agreed on him, Cuellar and Dunne. The fact is we have to throw ourselves into last ditch tackles too often. And while it's great when it pays off like against Man City, quite often it's because things have broken down in other areas and we're not so lucky. I'd like to get defenders who are capable of last ditch heroics, but ultimately as a team we rarely ever have to get to that point of desperation defending.
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I haven't seen the Petrov incident but just playing devils advocate, could he have been upset at himself rather then the manager for subbing him?
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Collins is great at throwing himself in front of shots and always gives 100 percent, but he worries me far more than a centre half should do.
Agree, he is very much a last ditch defender, i like his attitude but question his composure
Of course you like his attitude as you seem to want every player on the pitch to be diving in on every ball.
you are so right, in fact they should take weapons on the pitch with them, just in case
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Oh and also Petrov needs to go now, he is completely anonymous.
I'm not sure about this. He was one of the better players against Man City. However, I think age is beginning to show unfortunately. Not through lack of effort though, which is more than can be said for the likes of Ireland and Carew. Both of whom have thankfully gone (for now).
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pls don't tell me Vidic scored a header from a corner...
No a shot from the edge of the box from a (offside)Rooney layoff.
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It's my fault lads I left without my lucky jumper.
Seriously though its my fault!
Can you make sure you bring it on Saturday please?
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Oh and also Petrov needs to go now, he is completely anonymous.
I'm not sure about this. He was one of the better players against Man City. However, I think age is beginning to show unfortunately. Not through lack of effort though, which is more than can be said for the likes of Ireland and Carew. Both of whom have thankfully gone (for now).
I've never thought Stan was anything special, he's basically been a solid, PL midfielder for us, nothing more, and not much less (most of the time).
However, he's ideally going to see less and less time on the pitch for us, as he's starting to look past it.
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The defence needs working on - granted. But we need to create more clear cut chances up front. Why GH persists with 3 wingers is still a mystery. It doesn't work. For games against against the quality of ManU we don't have that luxury. They overun us. I would like to see us use only one winger and pack the midfield out. And start passing the ball through the middle. For almost 5 years we have relyed on crosses into the box. Petrov is finished for me. When Bradley comes in what is GH going to do to accommodate 2/3 winger? Drop the keeper?
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Not many positives. Bent showed why he's worth the money, and Makoun looks brilliant. The second we were linked with him I was excited, so I'm glad to see him perform. I think he's going to be a really quality player for us.
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Good all-round performance against a team who will run away with the league. Plenty of positives in a season of upheaval, some self-inflicted.
Bent, Makoun and Walker have fitted in well, the kids have been given a chance, and shown serious promise, loads of deadwood has been shipped out, and last season's "First XI" have now got to put up or shut up.
At last there's light at the end of a long, dark, Martin O'Neill fashioned tunnel.
The future's bright, the future's Claret and Blue!
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It sounds silly, but aside from the result I thought we were a match for them. If Young ever realises that he only has to beat a defender once before crossing it we might just get somewhere.
Oh, and Makoun had a stormer. Very, very impressed.
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While I agree that Makoun had a very good game, I think he needs to settle into the speed of the league because a few times a player has ran past him while he jogs tracking back (not just today).
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If Young ever realises that he only has to beat a defender once before crossing it we might just get somewhere.
That is a bugbear with him even more then his shite deadball delivery. Can't someone show him how he used to play for us or the way Bale is playing and remind him that early balls in the box are more damaging then farting around on the ball.
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Mentioned Makoun before he got to Villa. He is class. My words were "he is an upgraded Reo" and that is exactly on the button. Put Bradley next to him and our midfield will go up several notches. Downing was fine but obviously people on here will never see that. Any club in the world could lose to a united team on that form. And it was a compliment that they knew they had to, to get a result. We will beat Fulham saturday, convincinely ......
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Very disapointed I'd hoped we'd get at least a point, but you don't concede in the first minute at Old Trafford and survive.
Still they looked like they had more idea than pre Houllier days and Bent's goal from a lovely Downing inspired move made them wobble but then there was no on the pitch leadership to make them push on.
As we didn't drop into the relegation zone Houllier can get on with finding the right mix, Petrov shouldn't be in it though he looked really overawed by proceedings. That Makoun fella looks promising does he not.
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While I agree that Makoun had a very good game, I think he needs to settle into the speed of the league because a few times a player has ran past him while he jogs tracking back (not just today).
Hey if a £14mil player like Charlie Adam can get away with that, what do you expect of a £5 mil player.
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Far too comfortable for them. This 4-5-1 thing just doesn't work, and hasn't worked all season. Can we try something else please? Oh and Dunne is back to his fat, shit worst after a brief respite.
After only one game, I'd say.
And Cuellar lied on the bench.
Well Dunne, Mr Hoolakop!
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I think we now have most of the ingredients. Just hope the chef can serve up a consistent winning dish!
With Bannan sauce on the side!
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While I agree that Makoun had a very good game, I think he needs to settle into the speed of the league because a few times a player has ran past him while he jogs tracking back (not just today).
has he played 2 full games yet? i.'ve watched Petrov be the same for 4 seasons why not pick on him, I usually do :)
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O.K, pick ourselves up dust ourselves off. We'll be stronger next season and we'll give these fuckers another fright or two.
Now, lets go on a long winning streak and climb that league. And lets get Bradley in for Petrov and sit him on his arse until needed.
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Haven't seen the Petrov strop but we're entitled to expect better from our captain - grow up Stan.
Well, it was pretty clear that there was some, er, shaking of the head going on. I didn't see him Kung Fu kick a ball boy or drop his shorts and crimp off a length in Houllier's technical area.
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O.K, pick ourselves up dust ourselves off. We'll be stronger next season and we'll give these fuckers another fright or two.
Now, lets go on a long winning streak and climb that league. And lets get Bradley in for Petrov and sit him on his arse until needed.
Yes, lets enjoy the rest of the season! I think it will have more ups than downs.
UTV
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Good thing is we've played man city, wigan & man u and we've got 6 points. Not many saw that coming. As Maz said dust ourselves down and move on.
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Collins is great at throwing himself in front of shots and always gives 100 percent, but he worries me far more than a centre half should do.
Collins reminds me of Richard wright. As Ipswich gk he had a fantastic record of saving penalties however that was after he conceded most of them by making poor decisions.
Last ditch tackles are all very well but God was never visible just effective.
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Crap first goal and then whilst we kept the ball well at times we just didn't get going at all in the first half. Nightmare defending again for the second. When we upped the pace in the second half all of a sudden they were shitting themselves and we could have made a game of it but again crap defending cost us. Overall not overly displeased but we need toup the pace at which we play sometimes.
Highlights, Makoun superb, Bent did what he's paid to do
Lowlights, Dunne and Collins, Petrov (!!) and Ashley frustrating Young
Ah well time for bed.
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Just got back.
Disappointed, but not disheartened. The sucker-punch in the first 30 seconds wasn't a good start, and neither was the second good timing (albeit from a good piece of play) when I felt we'd played reasonably well for most of the first half.
Second half we stepped up a couple of gears, but so did they and, frankly, there was only ever going to be one outcome.
Positives? We played some good football and apart from the goal, went close to getting behind their defence of quite a few other occasions. I thought Makoun had an excellent game, he's very assured on the ball and will be a great asset. Bent took his goal well and Downing put in a decent shift. If we play like that in every away game between now and the end of the season we should pick up a few more wins on our travels.
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Crap first goal and then whilst we kept the ball well at times we just didn't get going at all in the first half. Nightmare defending again for the second. When we upped the pace in the second half all of a sudden they were shitting themselves and we could have made a game of it but again crap defending cost us. Overall not overly displeased but we need toup the pace at which we play sometimes.
Highlights, Makoun superb, Bent did what he's paid to do
Lowlights, Dunne and Collins, Petrov (!!) and Ashley frustrating Young
Ah well time for bed.
Pretty good summary.
I am off to bed too.
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http://audioboo.fm/boos/267990-gerrard-houllier-post-match-reaction-to-3-1-defeat?utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=retweet&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Houllier on Petrov 3 min 7 seconds.
You are out of here son, Geddy didn't sound too impressed.
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This coffee smells terrible.
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Friedal - excellent!
Walker - made to look average by an aging Giggs.
Clark - Looked like a CB playing at LB when Nani ran at him
Dunne - Shit - overweight, liability he was earlier in the season. Asleep for the 1st goal
Collins - Excellent at times, dreadful at others.
Albrighton - looked much better down the right, average at best down the left
Makoun - Excellent, really liked him ball retention and tenacity
Petrov - Dreadful. gave the ball away too much, not got enough energy and his passing was limited. His leadership is also debatable.
Downing - he needs to pay down the left, not the middle, or the right. THE LEFT!
Young - he needs to pay down the left, not the middle, or the right. THE LEFT!
Bent - scores goals. We need to utilise his goal scoring opportunity by giving him chances.
Subs: Gabby - Not really given enough time
Heskey - pointless
Reo-Coker - should have come on earlier for hapless Petrov
Overall: They're head and shoulders above us and it showed, we passed it much better than we have done but defensively we have the concentration of a goldfish. In the middle of the pitch i actually thought we we're better, problem is (much like when we play Ollbeyun) they were better in the last third at each end.
Ashley Young HAS to play on the wing, we simply can not play all three of Albrighton, Young and Downing.
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From what the highlights have shown thought that Friedel had a blinder, Makoun looks quality, Albrighton had a few decent runs and the link up play between Ash and Bent looks good.
Rooney always scores against us and looked back to his best tonight.
Plenty of positives to take from tonight, with thr next 3 games in feb very winnable.
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Friedal - excellent!
Walker - made to look average by an aging Giggs.
Clark - Looked like a CB playing at LB when Nani ran at him
Dunne - Shit - overweight, liability he was earlier in the season. Asleep for the 1st goal
Collins - Excellent at times, dreadful at others.
Albrighton - looked much better down the right, average at best down the left
Makoun - Excellent, really liked him ball retention and tenacity
Petrov - Dreadful. gave the ball away too much, not got enough energy and his passing was limited. His leadership is also debatable.
Downing - he needs to pay down the left, not the middle, or the right. THE LEFT!
Young - he needs to pay down the left, not the middle, or the right. THE LEFT!
Bent - scores goals. We need to utilise his goal scoring opportunity by giving him chances.
Subs: Gabby - Not really given enough time
Heskey - pointless
Reo-Coker - should have come on earlier for hapless Petrov
Overall: They're head and shoulders above us and it showed, we passed it much better than we have done but defensively we have the concentration of a goldfish. In the middle of the pitch i actually thought we we're better, problem is (much like when we play Ollbeyun) they were better in the last third at each end.
Ashley Young HAS to play on the wing, we simply can not play all three of Albrighton, Young and Downing.
100% agree mate.
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Just heard houlliers interview- 'he (petrov) should learn to leave his ego in the dressing room, the team comes first' was basically the message- can't see mr petrov being in the team on Saturday!
Bradley makoun and downing would be pretty useful .
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You can't put a spineless Downing in front of a right back who can't defend. Especially if Cuellar isn't there to cover.
Young needs to learn how to get a corner kick past the first man, needs to understand that every free kick he takes goes over the bar - I actually fast forwarded thru this as I knew where it was going to end up. He needs to learn that releasing the ball sooner is much much better than running at three opposition players and losing the ball.
Fuck I can't stand him!! There, I said it.
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Not read the thread, so not sure if it's been mentioned yet.
Makoun - 94 attempted passes - 85 complete.
When was the last time we had a player do something similar to that?
(The stats for the team - 565 attempted passes, 453 completed. Man Utd was 446, 342 respectively)
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Not read the thread, so not sure if it's been mentioned yet.
Makoun - 94 attempted passes - 85 complete.
When was the last time we had a player do something similar to that?
(The stats for the team - 565 attempted passes, 453 completed. Man Utd was 446, 342 respectively)
As a midfielder and looking at the team stats you posted, aren't his stats just average for his position?
The teams pass completion was roughly 80%. Makouns was slightly better at about 90%, which is good but he is a centre mid and so he should be better than the average player in the team as it is one of a midfielder's key attributes. Then, he made roughly 20% of the teams attempted passes but again, in his position is that not normal? I genuinely don't know. I am not knocking him, I thought he was great, just not sure about the stats. :)
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Not read the thread, so not sure if it's been mentioned yet.
Makoun - 94 attempted passes - 85 complete.
When was the last time we had a player do something similar to that?
(The stats for the team - 565 attempted passes, 453 completed. Man Utd was 446, 342 respectively)
As a midfielder and looking at the team stats you posted, aren't his stats just average for his position?
The teams pass completion was roughly 80%. Makouns was slightly better at about 90%, which is good but he is a centre mid and so he should be better than the average player in the team as it is one of a midfielder's key attributes. Then, he made roughly 20% of the teams attempted passes but again, in his position is that not normal? I genuinely don't know. I am not knocking him, I thought he was great, just not sure about the stats. :)
Are you saying that you are questioning Makoun`s 90% passing succces rate. Because that is "normal" for a midfielder ?? Really not sure if you are joking or incredibly naive. I would love to see those statistics for Sidwell or Reo Coker. I would put money on it that neither one of them has those stats since they joined Villa. Makoun was superb and with Bradley next to him i am very excited .......
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Our final third was the problem, we broke at pace then instead af running at defenders start passing backwards Ash is probably the biggest offender. He shoud stay out wide and forget about being a midfielder, the one time we broke and got it in early we scored. We now have a natural goalscorer in the side we have to get the ball in early to him.
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v Man Utd
Makoun 94 (85)
Dunne 62 (50)
Walker 58 (50)
Downing 54 (40)
Young 52 (36)
Petrov 45 (42)
Clark 45 (39)
Collins 44 (33)
Friedel 38 (22)
Albrighton 25 (16)
Bent 23 (19)
Heskey 12 (11)
Agbonlahor 9 (6)
Reo-Coker 4 (4)
The highest Man Utd player's stat - Giggs 61 (38)
Also the most passing stats for the previous 10 league games
Wigan - Downing 60 (43)
Man City - Downing 49 (38)
Birmingham - Walker 60 (37)
Sunderland - Cuellar 59 (43)
Chelsea - Clark 47 (30)
Man City - Downing 70 (48)
Tottenham - Warnock 70 (42)
WBA - Lichj (49) 28
Liverpool - Warnock 79 (64)
Arsenal - L. Young 57 (44)
So I'd say that what Makoun did with the ball against Man Utd is a bit above average! Especially considering that there isn't a centre midfielder that comes top in any of them games (Delph is the closest).
Oh, and Arsenal who for some reason are known as the best passing team in the league, their stats for the game against Everton -
Team - 521 (429)
Sagna - 63 (57)
Fabregas - 60 (44)
All stats courtesy of Guardian Chalkboard. (I am turning into Villadawg - next week I'll tackle the wage issue!)
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Any stats about crosses/passes delivered into danger areas? That's clearly our weak point at the moment. We're keeping possession better, it's looking pretty and more aesthetically pleasing in the middle of the park and I like the look of Makoun as a different style of player than we're used to. But Downing, Allbrighton and Young have to deliver more consistently. A reminder, we actually won here - for a change - last season but were never going to tonight.
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In fairness to Petrov he rarely gives the ball away. But most of his passes are slow and measured - sideways or backwards around the centre circle. With the occasional fantastic hooked ball across to the wing.
Makoun is much less laboured, he always seems to be thinking one move ahead, and a lot of his passes are played in the final third.
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I am excited about Bradley in there with Makoun, and Delph. I think it is clear from the post match interview from Gerard that he liked that we kept the ball well and passed a lot more, but was not happy that we did not try and penetrate enough with it. Work in progress, but from the stat of simply keeping possession at Old Trafford and not being always under the hammer, we did a lot better.
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As defeats go at the biggest tourist destination in the North west, I didn't think it was that bad. Plenty of positives to take from the game but considering our last performance in that city, a definate improvement.
Still not sure about one up/one off, Downing or the central defensive partnership but was impressed with the managers reaction to the captains reaction at being replaced. He could've fudged it but was quite clear with his criticism.
I get the feeling that much like Carew, Petrov is an O'Neil player whose time is drawing to a close
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Any stats about crosses/passes delivered into danger areas? That's clearly our weak point at the moment. We're keeping possession better, it's looking pretty and more aesthetically pleasing in the middle of the park and I like the look of Makoun as a different style of player than we're used to. But Downing, Allbrighton and Young have to deliver more consistently. A reminder, we actually won here - for a change - last season but were never going to tonight.
Whilst not denigrating the win last seaon, we got it through dogged defending and poor Manure finishing, very similar to the way we played against Citeh the other week. Any chance of a repeat of that was dashed at 58 seconds which allowed them to sit back and absorb our chances first half. If we had gone in only one down and we went for it in the second half we might have got something but that was also not the case.
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In fairness to Petrov he rarely gives the ball away. But most of his passes are slow and measured - sideways or backwards around the centre circle. With the occasional fantastic hooked ball across to the wing.
Makoun is much less laboured, he always seems to be thinking one move ahead, and a lot of his passes are played in the final third.
i dont think makoun hardly played a ball in the final third, he did have a cracking game, petrov wasnt that bad either, the seeds are being sown on our team to have aright go and play progressive exciting football! little more positive in delivery of final ball and we could have done more than upset them last night, ie, ash's shot which hit bar and was that a pen and sending off when bent brought down by evra?
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Forgive the ignorance - but what was Petrov's reaction to getting subbed and what has GH said about it?
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He shook his head a bit, and Gerard tutted and rolled his eyes. It was like World War III
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Forgive the ignorance - but what was Petrov's reaction to getting subbed and what has GH said about it?
A lot of head shaking as soon as his number was held up which continued as he walked off the pitch but haven't heard what has been said subsequently. Not a major strop or anything like that but equally not a good example for the captain to set.
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Petrov walked off shaking his head and clearly wasn't happy at going off, houllier said on wm that ' he needs to leave his ego in the dressing room and it's the team that comes first, we were losing and had to change things'
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Hou said the change was made to try and get something from the game and that players should leave their ego's in the dressing room, or words to that effect anyway.
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He apparently carried on whinging about it afterwards.
I dont see what he has to complain about as he's mostly ineffective for us. Crap for the first two years, a very good much improved third year... and that's that.
He's lucky to be starting and once Delph is fully fit and Bradley is ready, he shouldn't be.
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I agree maz , one good year in 4 for us really and he is a much weaker link than downing, I would very much prefer Bradley or nige in the team than petrov, it is not an age problem as Reading his book I noticed he said at Celtic his fitness was always questioned as he tired late in games.
Petrov doesn't have the level of stamina needed to last 90 mins at this level and can moan as much as he likes - houllier made clear in an interview last month players who don't it will be 'bombed out'- shape up or ship out petrov!
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You can't put a spineless Downing in front of a right back who can't defend. Especially if Cuellar isn't there to cover.
Young needs to learn how to get a corner kick past the first man, needs to understand that every free kick he takes goes over the bar - I actually fast forwarded thru this as I knew where it was going to end up. He needs to learn that releasing the ball sooner is much much better than running at three opposition players and losing the ball.
Fuck I can't stand him!! There, I said it.
Thank fook I'm not the only one. This complete egomaniac drags the team down at times. He holds onto the ball too long in open play, and the vanity-flattering experiment of playing him through the middle is a folly. He's not as good as he thinks he is, and his dead ball skills have been atrocious for a while, and yes I am including hi penalty technique which, the goal aside last week, looks like he could miss the goal just as easily. As my friend says, we're now seeing the result of MON telling him he's world class for the past 2 seasons. No he isn't.
Sell him in the summer.
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Friedel pulled off some great saves last night and I dont want to get on his case. But I thought he could have easily come to the edge of the box to collect that long ball. It seems most of the team were still asleep. Dunne and Friedel included.
His biggest fault is that he stays rooted to goal mouth. I suspect he's a life size subbuteo keeper!
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It's quite natural for a player to be disappointed after being taken off, it's a normal human reaction. We're in danger of turning this int a bigger issue than it is. I'm sure a few quite words at BH and it will all be smoothed over.
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I would hope any player let alone the captain is pissed off at getting taken off in a match we are losing.
It's amazing how things change in football, after the Man City game Dunne was back to his best and Petrov had a cracking game, a defeat against the league leaders and Dunne is fat again and Petrov finished.
You could tell Gary Mac wasn't happy with him cos you could hear him shouting "Stilyian" at him as opposed to "Stan", he must have done something really naughty.
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It's quite natural for a player to be disappointed after being taken off, it's a normal human reaction. We're in danger of turning this int a bigger issue than it is. I'm sure a few quite words at BH and it will all be smooted over.
I like to see players disappointed at being taken off. Its what should happen. But it should stop once you've left the pitch, especially when you've been playing poorly.
But you're right, it's not a big deal. I just dont want him to play for us any more because he isn't good enough.
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Forgive the ignorance - but what was Petrov's reaction to getting subbed and what has GH said about it?
A lot of head shaking as soon as his number was held up which continued as he walked off the pitch but haven't heard what has been said subsequently. Not a major strop or anything like that but equally not a good example for the captain to set.
You'd sort of expect it as he's not used to it.
He was exempt from substitution under O'Neill.
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Yes chris but houllier clearly wasn't impressed and was asked about petrov so clearly it was noticed by many the way he left the field, a player should be upset but should not show such open displeasure as that , and coming from a team captain makes it worse.
Some harsh criticism of ash on here but I do wish we would let others have a crack at free kicks more often, yes he scored some nice goals from set pieces but you can count thEm
on one hand, let's see downing or someone else have a crack at them too, so many free kicks are being wasted in dangerous positions.
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Sounds to me very much like a storm in a tea cup then.
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Yes vs it's not a major problem and I'd expect GED to have a word about it, if he hasn't already, and move on.
I'd hope Bradley will replace petrov on Saturday in any case , for playing reasons.
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With Makoun and Bradley coming in and Delph and Bannan knocking on the door of the first team, I think we all know Petrov's days are probably numbered at the villa.
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Yes chris but houllier clearly wasn't impressed and was asked about petrov so clearly it was noticed by many the way he left the field, a player should be upset but should not show such open displeasure as that , and coming from a team captain makes it worse.
Some harsh criticism of ash on here but I do wish we would let others have a crack at free kicks more often, yes he scored some nice goals from set pieces but you can count thEm
on one hand, let's see downing or someone else have a crack at them too, so many free kicks are being wasted in dangerous positions.
On one of the live games recently they discussed how few goals have been scored direct from free kicks this year, I can't remember the exact stat but it was a very low percentage. It's not just a Villa problem and is probably down to the ridiculously light balls they use these days.
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Yes, and we're after Moussa Sissoko in the summer too apparently.
He's a goner.
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We must play 4-4-2 no matter who the opposition, please listen Mr H!
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I would pick this team for next game.
Friedel
Walker Cuellar Collins Clark
Bradley Makoun Reo Coker
Albrighton Downing
Bent
Swap NRC for Gabby and I think we have a winning team! 4-4-2 I say!
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We must play 4-4-2 no matter who the opposition, please listen Mr H!
There is no chance of that, we will be playing variations of 4-5-1, 4-3-3 in the majority of games. It's what he's been working towards all season and he's not going to abandon it now.
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Lets start with the positives
Bent scored again
Makoun solid (hope he isn't another square ball merchant mind)
Downing, Ash & Albrighton all lively
Friedel great game
Negatives
Defence were shocking
Petrov was poor + petulance when subbed
It could easily have been 6 or 7
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I can see why they're top of the league. It's not the end of the world. Lets move onto Fulham at home & get back to winning ways.
Thought Makoun & Friedel were very good tonight.
I'm really bored of watching NRC & Petrov play for us. The quicker Makoun & Delph/Bradley/Bannan get games together the better.
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always been a big fan of Petrov, and think he is underestimated in the team sometimes, we notice it when he doesnt play.
however his time is coming to an end, in the sense that he will not be a first team starter for most games,
we have now got better and younger replacements, the team is shaping up and heading in the right direction.
when we play those little cute triangles that seem to lead to nowhere,
remember thats called keeping possesion of the ball, something Villa teams for ages have not being able to do,
we created some decent chances last night, and also played some good football, Man Utd were the better side, but then they are top and so far unbeaten, but they had to play well to beat us,
they have played crap for most of the year and still won,
but last night Rooney, Nani etc uped their game,
i'd like to think they had to.
positives last night for me were-
Makoun, looked very composed, didnt give the ball away many times
Bent, scored again, good for his confidence
played a good style of football, loved to see us keeping the ball for long periods at OT,
Negatives,
final ball in the danger areas
Downing, sorry i just dont get him
Dunne, massive mistake for the first goal, schoolboy defending, although did go on to make some good tackles later on,
but the damage had been dunne [see what i did there]
MOM for Villa - Makoun
MOM for Man Utd Nani [even though he's a cheating git]
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Houllier is a huge advocate of the 4-3-3 system and when defending that can become 4-5-1, the days of 4-4-2 are gone and I'm happy with the new system, players will take a while to adjust their games but in the long run we will see the benefit.
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He's not going to drop Young. Even if he deserves it.
He was our best player against Wigan.
In that team I'd swap Reo Coker for Delph or Bannan.
And probably Young for Downing on THE LEFT!
Dunne had a poor game but then he does every so often, even when in form. I'm not sure I'd be dropping him just yet.
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What is pleasing to is we now have a really strong bench , although I think gabby will find it hard to get a regular place in the team, with heskey, bannan , cuellar , reo- coker as well it looks solid and the squad is beginning to look higher in quality.
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Just noticed on Sissoko's Wikipedia page that he was born in Le Blanc-Mesnil, which rung a bell because its twinned with Sandwell, West Midlands! That must be a major draw for him, surely...
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With Makoun and Bradley coming in and Delph and Bannan knocking on the door of the first team, I think we all know Petrov's days are probably numbered at the villa.
I am all for that!
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Dunne wasn't too bad. I thought he dealt well with Berbatov & did a couple of good tackles especially in the 2nd half.
Walker still looks a bit sloppy with the ball when defending and under pressure, sometimes he just needs to twat it down the pitch instead of trying something clever.
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The thing about the likes of NRC, Dunne, Petrov etc. They are what remains of the previous regime, and I don't think they'll be part of Houllier's Villa after the summer. They've served their purpose, but they're just not good enough for the next stage. The kids, plus players like Bradley and Makoun are the future, and I'd expect a good number of MON's players (even Ash if the right bid comes in) to be gone by August.
this is how i see it... houlliers recruites so far look very positive, and are being let down by some of o'neills expensive dross...
which for me, is a huge positive for the future, as if more players like bent and makoun come in, then we will improve, both in terms of the attractiveness of the football, and results... result against manure aside, im very positive...
simple fact is, we were beaten by the better side, and tbh, when their strikerforce cost them over 60 million, its hardly surprising, and certainly no shame in losing to them, but still competing for long periods... timing of the goals hit us, but thats what happens when certain players make the basic mistakes...
onwards and upwards!
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Lets start with the positives
Bent scored again
Makoun solid (hope he isn't another square ball merchant mind)
Downing, Ash & Albrighton all lively
Friedel great game
Negatives
Defence were shocking
Petrov was poor + petulance when subbed
It could easily have been 6 or 7
6 or 7?
I think we got unlucky in that Rooney for the majority of the game was back to his best. The score line was about right but we would have given ourselves a much better chance if we'd been on our toes from the first minute.
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We must play 4-4-2 no matter who the opposition, please listen Mr H!
There is no chance of that, we will be playing variations of 4-5-1, 4-3-3 in the majority of games. It's what he's been working towards all season and he's not going to abandon it now.
Unfortunately you are right, he is not going to change it for anyone!
So we are going to have to get used to wingers playing in centre midfield, on their 'wrong' sides and forwards as wingers! Oh joys!
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United last night on that form would have beaten just about any team and we gave them a decent game- that's to our credit.
Confidence it still pretty high so now let's go on a run up that table.Players are still aDjusting to the new system of play and as they do so will become comfortable and improve their game, next season could be hugely exciting to watch , but in the meantime have a bit of patience with things and we will reap the benefit.
I love the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 style as it gives such fluidity and options and the 4-4-2 has long been dated.
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Not read the thread, so not sure if it's been mentioned yet.
Makoun - 94 attempted passes - 85 complete.
When was the last time we had a player do something similar to that?
(The stats for the team - 565 attempted passes, 453 completed. Man Utd was 446, 342 respectively)
that is excellent.. thanks for bringing it to my attention... (i love stats like that... they make me feel all warm and fuzzy...)
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We must play 4-4-2 no matter who the opposition, please listen Mr H!
There is no chance of that, we will be playing variations of 4-5-1, 4-3-3 in the majority of games. It's what he's been working towards all season and he's not going to abandon it now.
Unfortunately you are right, he is not going to change it for anyone!
So we are going to have to get used to wingers playing in centre midfield, on their 'wrong' sides and forwards as wingers! Oh joys!
It's the modern way!
I'd say that Albrighton is the only out and out winger we have. Downing and Young are more adaptable players who can perform in a number of positions.
I though the way we moved the ball around last night with everyone comfortable in possession was a very encouraging pointer as to how how we are going to play.
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It's quite natural for a player to be disappointed after being taken off, it's a normal human reaction. We're in danger of turning this int a bigger issue than it is. I'm sure a few quite words at BH and it will all be smoothed over.
Like Shorey at Fulham?
I know, I know *wink*
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Last night we were simply up against a better team than us, who are in great form at the moment.
It's going to take time, for the system and style to click fully with the players we have. Yes, we kept the ball well, but in the first half it was all in front of them and we didn't have enough in their final third to really hurt them.
The key, is getting players a bit closer to Bent when we break and creating a few more chances generally in games. Defensively though we're still a big worry, Walker looks like a frustrated winger to me and how Cuellar can't get in that team is a complete mystery.
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Very impressed with Makoun, good control, comfortable on the ball, knows how to pick a pass out and make it, linked up a lot of our play.
Young flattered to deceive again, Bent did his job clinically. Dunne was like a lame elephant first half and lucky not to conced what looked like a blatant penalty.
Defensively we are ropey, far too much ballwatching and not enough marking, Rooney had more space in one game than he's had in the previous twenty, no surprise he scored two and could have had more if not for Brad.
We continue to lose goals at the end of the half - a very bad habit.
Giggs and Nani were impressive for them.
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Who was arsey when taken off last night?
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Who was arsey when taken off last night?
Stan spat his dummy out
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Bent's goal gives him a 1 in 2 ratio, which is nice.
Or indeed 2 in 3 which is even nicer.
I'm in no way depressed after yesterday, the manner of the defeat is enough to give us hope in th coming months. Makoun looks to be a quality signing. Petrov did his best to make everyone who has stood up for him look foolish. Every time he is in possession his first movement is towards the sideline, all pace extinguished. Double training sessions for the defence and a good 3 points this weekend, please.
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United last night on that form would have beaten just about any team and we gave them a decent game- that's to our credit.
Confidence it still pretty high so now let's go on a run up that table.Players are still aDjusting to the new system of play and as they do so will become comfortable and improve their game, next season could be hugely exciting to watch , but in the meantime have a bit of patience with things and we will reap the benefit.
I love the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 style as it gives such fluidity and options and the 4-4-2 has long been dated.
I agree with you, it's a much more expansive way of playing the game. The players just need a bit of time to get use to it. And with the likes of downing, young and albrighton I think it will help them flourish.
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Giving anyone a goal start is difficult but it's even worse when it's at Man U.
It was real sunday morning stuff that first goal.
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United last night on that form would have beaten just about any team and we gave them a decent game- that's to our credit.
Confidence it still pretty high so now let's go on a run up that table.Players are still aDjusting to the new system of play and as they do so will become comfortable and improve their game, next season could be hugely exciting to watch , but in the meantime have a bit of patience with things and we will reap the benefit.
I love the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 style as it gives such fluidity and options and the 4-4-2 has long been dated.
I agree with you, it's a much more expansive way of playing the game. The players just need a bit of time to get use to it. And with the likes of downing, young and albrighton I think it will help them flourish.
Agree with all of the above. 4-4-2 these days is actually a defensive system: because you don't have the numbers in the centre of the field to hold the ball, you end up sticking two banks of four behind the ball and playing out-balls to the forwards. Playing two up front is an advantage here because you can look for a knockdown or lay-off from one striker to the other when the opposition defence is disorganised. However, at the higher levels you have to look to keep the ball and break teams down, and because 4-4-2 leaves you so spare in the middle the extra striker becomes pretty much useless as you never create anything to get to him.
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Well, as I said in the pre-match forum, they had their full team out (why does Sir Alex never rest anyone against us?? erm??) and they got off to a flier like they always try to do.
The whole team must take responsibility for the first minute, up in the stands I could see Van de Sar screaming at Ferdinand, who was about to just tap the free kick, to get out of the way as he raced out to launch it forward. If everyone had been alert they would have shouted to the defenders to ensure they were aware of what was happening.
And the second, scored after the board had gone up showing 1 minute, again is just suicidal.
After the opening they were quite happy to let us retain possession in midfield knowing we were going nowhere. Yes Makoun does look a very composed and tidy player but in all honesty did he ever look like opening them up? In fact several times Bent was looking for the through ball from him but Makoun played it short to someone close by. He will need time to get up to speed and I think he could well be an asset to us.
In relation to Downing, I think he has a footballing brain and does try to find a pass, but last night most of his shots were blocked and therefore nullified. He either needs to shoot earlier or commit the defender before shooting thus meaning the shot will miss the defender.
I went with some Man U season ticket holders and on the way home they said they couldn't believe Ashleys performance. "He spent half the match in your half of the pitch" was their main comment and you have to agree. They then said that when he moved out to the left after Emile came on, he did far more damage and that is where they expected to see him all game, running at O'Shea who they say is not worth his place. I think GH needs to tell him that he isn't a mid-fielder/link man but a front runner and if we are playing 4-3-3 then he is up front and has licence to roam across the park, collecting the ball and running at defenders in areas where he commits them.
For Walker and Clark it was part of the learning curve and also for the rest of the team when you think of the changes that have been made and the new faces needing to bed in. Unfortunately the first minute meant that we were never likely to bring anything away from there (yet again - 1 in how many years?).
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You can't put a spineless Downing in front of a right back who can't defend. Especially if Cuellar isn't there to cover.
Young needs to learn how to get a corner kick past the first man, needs to understand that every free kick he takes goes over the bar - I actually fast forwarded thru this as I knew where it was going to end up. He needs to learn that releasing the ball sooner is much much better than running at three opposition players and losing the ball.
Fuck I can't stand him!! There, I said it.
Thank fook I'm not the only one. This complete egomaniac drags the team down at times. He holds onto the ball too long in open play, and the vanity-flattering experiment of playing him through the middle is a folly. He's not as good as he thinks he is, and his dead ball skills have been atrocious for a while, and yes I am including hi penalty technique which, the goal aside last week, looks like he could miss the goal just as easily. As my friend says, we're now seeing the result of MON telling him he's world class for the past 2 seasons. No he isn't.
Sell him in the summer.
Agree with a lot of what Mr Diggles (hope the book was okay!) said
Ashley imo needs to be played wide where his pace is a threat. Flouncing through the middle with his snood on doesn't hurt other team
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The answer to that is one. We won there last season ..........
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Makoun is quality, him and Bradley will become our midfield pairing because Petrov is shit and has been for a while, he was buggered as soon as O'Neill left. He runs like he's in water, he can't tackle, he doesn't create or defend, he's knackered by half time and he can't pass forwards.
Bent did what he's paid to do. I seriously hope Gabby watches Bent's movement because he could learn something as he hasn't got a clue.
Young flattered to decieve like he does every game these days. He's become a 1 good game in 5 player and thats being generous. I've said for ages now he's the most overrated player i've ever seen, i'd flog him in the summer and sign N'Zogbia.
Downing is NOT a right winger.
How isn't Cuellar getting in that defence?
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Makoun is quality, him and Bradley will become our midfield pairing because Petrov is shit and has been for a while, he was buggered as soon as O'Neill left. He runs like he's in water, he can't tackle, he doesn't create or defend, he's knackered by half time and he can't pass forwards.
Bent did what he's paid to do. I seriously hope Gabby watches Bent's movement because he could learn something as he hasn't got a clue.
Young flattered to decieve like he does every game these days. He's become a 1 good game in 5 player and thats being generous. I've said for ages now he's the most overrated player i've ever seen, i'd flog him in the summer and sign N'Zogbia.
Downing is NOT a right winger.
How isn't Cuellar getting in that defence?
Why do our fans take such delight in insulting our players? Its not constructive at all. Intead of he hasnt got a clue, perhaps consider why he isnt playing well and form a decent opinion.
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Makoun is quality, him and Bradley will become our midfield pairing because Petrov is shit and has been for a while, he was buggered as soon as O'Neill left. He runs like he's in water, he can't tackle, he doesn't create or defend, he's knackered by half time and he can't pass forwards.
Bent did what he's paid to do. I seriously hope Gabby watches Bent's movement because he could learn something as he hasn't got a clue.
Young flattered to decieve like he does every game these days. He's become a 1 good game in 5 player and thats being generous. I've said for ages now he's the most overrated player i've ever seen, i'd flog him in the summer and sign N'Zogbia.
Downing is NOT a right winger.
How isn't Cuellar getting in that defence?
Why do our fans take such delight in insulting our players? Its not constructive at all. Intead of he hasnt got a clue, perhaps consider why he isnt playing well and form a decent opinion.
I'm not taking delight, but Gabby hasn't got a footballng brain and for someone so quick his movement is awful, he'd get a lot more scoring opportunities if he watched Bent's movement.
As for Ashley Young, he's poor and has been for ages now.
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My Twopennyworth from a dodgy stream
Big Brad - excellent and kept the score down
Walker - relies a little too much on his pace to cover for the huge gaps he leaves behind him
Dunne - Goal and def penalty decision aside - thought he was pretty good
Collins - as subtle as rabies but does the job
Clark - legs in a knot covering Nani - who is a girl but was superb last night
Albrighton - as much as i like him can be infuriating at times as always seems to choose the wrong option - should improve with experience - although why he kept turning up in the centre and on the left is beyond me
Makoun - we could just have a new hero on our hands - great touch, stamina and bloodied Fletchers face to boot
Petrov - like him but it is end of days for him and he knows it - agree with other poster he was such a cast iron 90 minuter under MON he cannot handle it now - bet he watches the press daily to see where MON will turn up next as so will he - as captain a piss poor show of temper for the youngsters
Ash Young - Am really losing patience with him - go back to what you did best - and stop being billy big bollock - would def sell for high money
Bent - 2 attempts and 1 goal - enough said - feed him and he will get plenty
Downing - just do not see what all the moaning is about - probably the best passer / vision in a player we have - both the Bent fall over and the goal was down to him - yes he does not tackle and yes he is a bit of a girl but bloody hell he is a very good footballer and i for one are glad he plays for us
Overall i thought some of the pass and move stuff we did was great
Better defense next year and i feel we are on the verge of something big again
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Makoun whilst looking solid did look like a square ball merchant last night, then again he was up against Class A opposition. I would hope to see him being a bit more adventurous on Saturday
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And he had Petrov playing beside him, so your nearest man is always beside/behind you.
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My Twopennyworth from a dodgy stream
Big Brad - excellent and kept the score down
Walker - relies a little too much on his pace to cover for the huge gaps he leaves behind him
Dunne - Goal and def penalty decision aside - thought he was pretty good
Collins - as subtle as rabies but does the job
Clark - legs in a knot covering Nani - who is a girl but was superb last night
Albrighton - as much as i like him can be infuriating at times as always seems to choose the wrong option - should improve with experience - although why he kept turning up in the centre and on the left is beyond me
Makoun - we could just have a new hero on our hands - great touch, stamina and bloodied Fletchers face to boot
Petrov - like him but it is end of days for him and he knows it - agree with other poster he was such a cast iron 90 minuter under MON he cannot handle it now - bet he watches the press daily to see where MON will turn up next as so will he - as captain a piss poor show of temper for the youngsters
Ash Young - Am really losing patience with him - go back to what you did best - and stop being billy big bollock - would def sell for high money
Bent - 2 attempts and 1 goal - enough said - feed him and he will get plenty
Downing - just do not see what all the moaning is about - probably the best passer / vision in a player we have - both the Bent fall over and the goal was down to him - yes he does not tackle and yes he is a bit of a girl but bloody hell he is a very good footballer and i for one are glad he plays for us
Overall i thought some of the pass and move stuff we did was great
Better defense next year and i feel we are on the verge of something big again
Agree almost entirely. Definitely would try to keep hold of Young though as he still creates a lot for us but we need to get him out of that stupid in the hole position and back on the wing. Give him licence to come in by all means (ala Giggs and Nani last night) and some support from fullback and he will be pouring the chances in for Bent. MA needs a break and Downing should stick to left wing. He is a pansy but rarely gives the ball away and has a footballing brain.
Makoun is already my hero. Class act and am excited to see what he and Bradley will look like although I must admit I'm probably more excited about Delph.
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In defence of Downing, one of his biggest assets is his ability to carry the ball a long way very quickly when we break, those were at the centre of our best moments last night and a great assist for Bent too
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Makoun is quality, him and Bradley will become our midfield pairing because Petrov is shit and has been for a while, he was buggered as soon as O'Neill left. He runs like he's in water, he can't tackle, he doesn't create or defend, he's knackered by half time and he can't pass forwards.
Bent did what he's paid to do. I seriously hope Gabby watches Bent's movement because he could learn something as he hasn't got a clue.
Young flattered to decieve like he does every game these days. He's become a 1 good game in 5 player and thats being generous. I've said for ages now he's the most overrated player i've ever seen, i'd flog him in the summer and sign N'Zogbia.
Downing is NOT a right winger.
How isn't Cuellar getting in that defence?
Agree with Bradley next to Makoun we will have real energy and become more of an attacking threat. Like Petrov but his legs have gone ......
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I thought that there was a lot that was positive about this match. OK we gave away a goal which we shouldn't have but from then on we weren't totally overwhelmed. If you look at the balance of talent and experience which was all on their side, we were a lot better than a few weeks ago. If GH can keep this rate of improvement up I reckon that we'll finish about mid-table,
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Dunne got banned from driving today. He might lose a few pounds now he has got to walk more .....
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Dunne/Collins - Very adept at heading out long crosses, and they do look good when that is all they have to face. Distinctly limited when it comes to pace and movement. They didn't exactly look watertight against Wigan. United seemed to base their game on playing the ball into space behind them. It worked a treat, we need better.
Walker - If we do not have 'option to buy' I would rather not play him, as much as I like him and think he's a great prospect.
Clark - not a great game, but judging by the ease with which Nani skinned other players that's hardly a surprise. I hope he learned something.
Albrighton - I hope he learned something too.
Young - played well at times against Wigan, but has dined out for an awful long time on the 2 goals he got against Everton. The money we could get is probably worth more than the player.
Downing - Whatever Houllier said about Ireland needing be to a better all round player equally applies to Downing. He did well early season with goals, largely by cleaning up at the far post. That was never going to last. He has played his part on occasions with good breaks and crosses, but not often enough. For the money he cost there ought to be more added value from him. I don't see him as part of the future either.
Makoun - totally impressive. Not fazed by having opponents snapping at his heels, always seemed to know what he wanted to do. His first touch was excellent. If he carries on like this £5 mill will be daylight robbery.
Bent - Not much of an all round player either, but from memory he's had three reasonable chances on goal in three games and put two of them away. A striker who do that is worth his weight. He needs players around him and better service. Of the current squad I'd be tempted to try Heskey in the Young role, or failing that maybe Barrington Bannan. Either may work better.
Agbonlahor - The way we play doesn't suit him at all. His biggest contribution seems to be tracking back and covering the full back. Other than that he has offered very little. If we have to have a striker on the left, Delfouneso may be a better choice.
Overall, in a few short weeks we have gone from a dysfunctional bunch of hoofers to a team that can actually play a bit. Last night demonstrated that there may still be a lot to do, but we have already come a long way.
The odd thing to me is that last year's victory was probably one of our worst performances at OT in recent years. We played much better in the 2-3 the previous season, and did so last night too.
For stats freaks, the last 5 years at OT :
2010-11 L 3-1, 23-12 (shots at goal)
2009-10 W 1-0, 19-8
2008-09 L 3-2, 18-9
2007-08 L 4-0. 15-14
2006-07 L 3-1, 26-6
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Great summary, Uncle Steve. Hard to argue with any of it.
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Despite losing 3-1 I am quite optimistic for the rest of the season, we gave some soft goals but Rooney was playing on top of his game last night, it was great to see Bent get another goal and it would have been interesting if Ashley's shot had gone in and not hit the bar.
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He apparently carried on whinging about it afterwards.
I dont see what he has to complain about as he's mostly ineffective for us. Crap for the first two years, a very good much improved third year... and that's that.
He's lucky to be starting and once Delph is fully fit and Bradley is ready, he shouldn't be.
spot on
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Dunne/Collins - Very adept at heading out long crosses, and they do look good when that is all they have to face. Distinctly limited when it comes to pace and movement. They didn't exactly look watertight against Wigan. United seemed to base their game on playing the ball into space behind them. It worked a treat, we need better.
Walker - If we do not have 'option to buy' I would rather not play him, as much as I like him and think he's a great prospect.
Clark - not a great game, but judging by the ease with which Nani skinned other players that's hardly a surprise. I hope he learned something.
Albrighton - I hope he learned something too.
Young - played well at times against Wigan, but has dined out for an awful long time on the 2 goals he got against Everton. The money we could get is probably worth more than the player.
Downing - Whatever Houllier said about Ireland needing be to a better all round player equally applies to Downing. He did well early season with goals, largely by cleaning up at the far post. That was never going to last. He has played his part on occasions with good breaks and crosses, but not often enough. For the money he cost there ought to be more added value from him. I don't see him as part of the future either.
Makoun - totally impressive. Not fazed by having opponents snapping at his heels, always seemed to know what he wanted to do. His first touch was excellent. If he carries on like this £5 mill will be daylight robbery.
Bent - Not much of an all round player either, but from memory he's had three reasonable chances on goal in three games and put two of them away. A striker who do that is worth his weight. He needs players around him and better service. Of the current squad I'd be tempted to try Heskey in the Young role, or failing that maybe Barrington Bannan. Either may work better.
Agbonlahor - The way we play doesn't suit him at all. His biggest contribution seems to be tracking back and covering the full back. Other than that he has offered very little. If we have to have a striker on the left, Delfouneso may be a better choice.
Overall, in a few short weeks we have gone from a dysfunctional bunch of hoofers to a team that can actually play a bit. Last night demonstrated that there may still be a lot to do, but we have already come a long way.
The odd thing to me is that last year's victory was probably one of our worst performances at OT in recent years. We played much better in the 2-3 the previous season, and did so last night too.
For stats freaks, the last 5 years at OT :
2010-11 L 3-1, 23-12 (shots at goal)
2009-10 W 1-0, 19-8
2008-09 L 3-2, 18-9
2007-08 L 4-0. 15-14
2006-07 L 3-1, 26-6
not a bad post that mate
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Did I really just hear the commentator on MOTD say that Rooney benefited from "two perfect passes from his team mates"?