Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dicedlam on January 18, 2011, 09:03:11 PM
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The bullshit, bollocks and badly researched ramblings of certain so called pundits and hacks really does boils my piss. Why is it that certain sections of the media show such utter contempt for our club?
What have we done so bad to be sneered at for spending £18 million on a player that is the third highest league scorer in the last three seasons?
We really do seem at odds with them..
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You're imagining it.
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I've stopped caring.
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It isn't just London-based outlets, f***ing WM were so sceptical it's unbelievable it claims to be THE station for the West Midlands. Certainly living in London, anything that occurs outside Zone 6 is equally treated with ignorance.
The Midlands, despite the world-renowned Selfridges Building and the Villa its still seen as unfashionable and drab. Doesn't help that our moronic neighbours do their best to drag the city's reputation further down. I fear if we win anything in the future it wouldn't improve our status.
We just have to put up with it as there is clearly an agenda, doesn't matter as it makes days like today the more satisfying.
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Looking at this board over the last few months, a lot of our our supporters are far more anti-Villa than the media are. The media simply try to reflect what they feel the public feeling is.
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It's obvious isn't it? We stopped pandering to their idol, the blessed Martin.
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Let's not let our inferiority complex paranoia ruin today.
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I'm long past caring about what the media think about us, but I did notice that the story didn't make Channel 4 news , where as if it had been Liverpool who had just signed the third highest goalscorer in the country or Alan shearer had just had a shit, they'd be all over it.
Although saying that I did take a piss during the news so I could have missed it.
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It is nothing new, they were the same in the early 80's!
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Fuck em , fuck em all .
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It's because they are jealous of us. They don't know how to take us. Proud history and all that.
We are just too superior.
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Agreed! It's like on Sunday in blues game when commentator said 'if offered 17th now, I'm sure Villa would take it'. I nearly choked when I heard that. They really do think we're no better than likes of fulham and Sunderland. Amazing how quickly they forget we have been sniffing around 4th for last couple of yrs!
Can't wait for Saturday anyway! :)
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I have to the say the "he's only going there for the money" line from some pundits is pissing me off.
It may, for all I know, be true, but it is not as if they'll trot that out the next time Citeh spend well over the odds.
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Read or listen
Laugh
Disregard
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The fans of the majority of clubs probably feel hard done by. You dont hear many supporters turning round saying they feel they get better coverage from the media than they deserve.
In fact I prefer it this way. I wouldnt like us to be spoken about in the national media in the sickening pathetic simpering love in way that they talk about the Chelseas and Spurs of this world.
Just use the whole plethora of information out there in this electronic instant digital technological world in a sensible selective manner to keep yourself abreast of events relating to the greatest football club in the world.
Thats means limited use of national outlets, greater but selective use of local media outlets and official club outlets. And of course large continual use of this site with its universally acclaimed group of commentators offering measured informed sensible analysis and opinion. ::)
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I'd say there's more laziness than animosity.
They can't be bothered to find out more, so have just fallen into the whole "sell-to-buy, O'Neill's walked out, Lerner won't spend, Young wants to leave, players hate Houllier" spiral.
When something happens that breaks that then they need an angle which fits the story they've been peddling for the last six months.
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I've never believed the 'world against us' paranoia, but since O'Neill left there has definitely been some very unfair criticism, a fair chunk of which has been from people who should know better - Radio WM this means you.
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Fuck em , fuck em all .
Exactly, the whole club needs to adopt that seige mentality, SAF uses it as a tactic a lot.
It breeds a winning mentality
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Ian Wright in the Sun today: "Some would argue that Villa are bigger than West Ham". Who the fuck would argue that West Ham are bigger than Villa?! Twat.
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There definitely (in my opinion) is an anti-Birmingham sentiment that permeates through English society. Maybe "anti-Birmingham" is too strong a term; there just seems to be the general opinion that Birmingham is the most dull, mediocre and turgid place that exists in England(!). By association, Villa simply don't get a fair press, which is disappointing given the history, success and heritage of the club. If Villa were a London club I have no doubt at all that the media would be giving the club the full recognition it deserves.
If QPR get promoted next year compare the press they get to the likes of Wolves, West Brom or SHA. I'm betting they will get far more coverage - despite West Brom and Wolves being far bigger, more historic clubs.
If there's one good thing about today's transfer it is that it might just get people outside of Birmingham sitting up and taking notice.
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It's obvious isn't it? We stopped pandering to their idol, the blessed Martin.
They really can't get over it. MON's the wronged party and Villa are the evil club that betrayed him.
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The media don't view us as a big market team, they only really care about Chelsea, Arsenal, Man United, Liverpool (lol), Man City and Spurs... everyone else in the league is just viewed as another team.
I wouldn't worry too much though, no matter how good we are society and media will never change their way based upon their 'knowledge' that the Midlands is an unattractive place and they'll only take notice of us when THEY feel like they need to.
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The English media has always had it in for Birmingham. This may be slightly OT, but take a look at the following link (scroll down to the Don Manuel Alvarez Espriella 1807 Letters from England). It's a long, but fascinating, and sometimes hilarious, account of a visit to Birmingham in 1802. It's written as though the author had been flung into the lowest level of hell. Probably spent too much time in Small Heath.
See if you can spot the quote that was used in the previous incarnation of the Bullring, which still survives in today's abomination. And who said Brum doesn't know how to promote itself?
http://billdargue.jimdo.com/placenames-gazetteer-a-to-y/places-p/pype-hayes/
Birmingham will never, ever be loved by England. Yet, unlike scousers and mancs in particular, Brummies tend to give a whole lot more back.
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I'd say there's more laziness than animosity.
They can't be bothered to find out more, so have just fallen into the whole "sell-to-buy, O'Neill's walked out, Lerner won't spend, Young wants to leave, players hate Houllier" spiral.When something happens that breaks that then they need an angle which fits the story they've been peddling for the last six months.
That's my take on it. There seems to be an accepted position and they all just trot it out without stopping to think whether it's accurate. To be fair they probably do the same for all clubs but we only notice when it concerns us.
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Tbh I thought exactly that today. First listening to that wnkr franksy trying to put works in gary shaws mouth on wm this evening. then i get home and read some of the pro MON stuff being peddled in the express. Really gets my wick as the whole world was drooling over us with martin!
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When Randy arrived they got a little worried that we could challenge the post 93 established order. Since O'Neill left they have been celebrating the death of Aston Villa with relish. To them it was unthinkable that we could rise in to the higher reaches of English football ever again because once O'Neill had left after "over achieving" surely we would accept mediocrity and concentrate on survival. Clearly this signing has the effect of giving them a big smack in the face. It is a rude awakening and they don't like it.
I was watching Sky news this moring and the woman doing the sports news mentioned "in what seems like a desperate act Villa are after Bent" twice within the space of 3 spoken lines.
Oliver Holt talking complete arse talk on ESPN and the Telegraph had an absolute shameful go this morning.
They don't like it that we can pull off big events like this. Well fuck them!
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I've noticed even the generally bland Five Live have been rather dismissive and incredulous that we could be spending so much; and even wondering what Martin O'Neill would think; without discussing the fact that he spent as much on defenders as we have on Bent.
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...without discussing the fact that he spent as much on defenders as we have on Bent.
I think twice as much, replacing the shit defenders he originally bought with average ones.
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I think I heard "I don't think Martin O'Neill would have got all that money to spend" atleast 6 times today. I wanted to strangle the radio.
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When Randy arrived they got a little worried that we could challenge the post 93 established order. Since O'Neill left they have been celebrating the death of Aston Villa with relish.
That's the one thing they don't care about. They have to have a Big 4/5/6 and they don't care who's in it. If we get into the Champions League we'll be part of their elite and they'll drop Spurs or whoever's place we take without a thought.
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It's nothing to do with the area or the city, and I think to suggest that makes us look like a load of chip on the shoulder provincials, which just feeds them.
In this case it is influenced by two things, I reckon.
Firstly, the fact that a good sector of the broadsheet press (who generally seem to be worse than the tabs on this) seem to be in love with MON. Henry Winter with his "he is in many ways too good a person for the game" or whatever it was, Paul Hayward with the "the chairman lost interest far before MON did" - that kind of stuff.
From the moment he joined us, there was always an air of "they're lucky to have him", which was true to a certain extent. The problem is that this then became him being bigger than the club, which seems to have been borne out by the way they have reacted since he has gone - they've all taken his side.
Secondly, it is as Dave and Chris said, pure fucking laziness. It's dead simple to jump on the "the chairman stopped supporting him" bandwagon, which is what most of them did. What is disappointing is that now, now that the chairman has provided an incredible level of financial support AGAIN, it has been twisted as "its a desperation buy' (which it clearly wasnt when Spurs bought him for just 1.5m less, three years ago, since when he's scored a hat full of goals) or "why on earth didn't they support MON like that?"
What is most worrying is that in relation to that last point, they can't even be arsed to give it some serious thought - ie the very idea that Martin might have had as much to do with his departure as Randy might even be a possibility.
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Ian Wright in the Sun today: "Some would argue that Villa are bigger than West Ham". Who the fuck would argue that West Ham are bigger than Villa?! Twat.
I noticed that wanker had us to finish 4th from bottom , 1 pt ablove relegation....
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The mail was interesting today. 3 pages of pretty anti-villa stuff down to claiming he was the 3rd most inaccurate striker in the premiership* Neil moxley must be shagging MON, or at least wants to.
*the other two were drogba and rooney and they'd all scored at least 7 goals i think. Does Villadawg work for the mail
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I maintain my oft repeated view that the core of it is owing to Birmingham never having sold a myth about itself to the world, like the NW, NE and London have done. Squeaky wheels get grease, meanwhile we just carry on quietly doing our thing. It's not in the Birmingham character to overmythologise itself, so the media have nothing that they can lazily and uncritically buy from us.
The best British myth IMV is Scousers having a great sense of humour. All the miserable tosspots from that most dismal city that I've met and spoken to must be the rare exceptions then...
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The answer to the original question is pure jealousy. Never has there been a more perfect football club than Aston Villa. The colours, the tradition, the history and above all, when the rest of the football world continues in its hideously corrupt way, one team manages to conduct itself properly and concludes a transfer deal that is honest and open.Fuck them all. We are by far the greatest team the world has ever seen.
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that all of the reporters left the press meetings with Randy in the summer with phrases like "sell-to-buy", "sustainable business" and "balancing the books" in their notepads.
Did they all simply misunderstand Randy?
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that all of the reporters left the press meetings with Randy in the summer with phrases like "sell-to-buy", "sustainable business" and "balancing the books" in their notepads.
Did they all simply misunderstand Randy?
Which press meetings with Randy?
I remember one piece in the Independent, and him talking to a couple of journos over a meal at the HH once, but that's about it.
The person I remember speaking most about sell to buy was Martin O'Neill.
I also don't remember reading anytihng anywhere about "balancing the books"
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The mail was interesting today. 3 pages of pretty anti-villa stuff down to claiming he was the 3rd most inaccurate striker in the premiership* Neil moxley must be shagging MON, or at least wants to.
*the other two were drogba and rooney and they'd all scored at least 7 goals i think. Does Villadawg work for the mail
Are you sure you understood the stats? Bent, Rooney and Drogba are the 3 most inaccurate strikers in the Premier League?
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They will be concentrating their fire on Wrist Ham and King Kenny. Hopefully as we start to float up the league table. A couple of goals for DB to kill the 'pricetag' angle, and it will be back to nobody but us giving a shit.
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yeah.. it was bizarre really. And they drew a little picture to prove it. no offence mind :0)
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There definitely (in my opinion) is an anti-Birmingham sentiment that permeates through English society. Maybe "anti-Birmingham" is too strong a term; there just seems to be the general opinion that Birmingham is the most dull, mediocre and turgid place that exists in England(!). By association, Villa simply don't get a fair press, which is disappointing given the history, success and heritage of the club. If Villa were a London club I have no doubt at all that the media would be giving the club the full recognition it deserves.
If QPR get promoted next year compare the press they get to the likes of Wolves, West Brom or SHA. I'm betting they will get far more coverage - despite West Brom and Wolves being far bigger, more historic clubs.
If there's one good thing about today's transfer it is that it might just get people outside of Birmingham sitting up and taking notice.
I bet they don't.
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How long will it take before I read an article about Villa that doesn't mention M***** O'N****?
If Villa finish 15th in 2059/60 the Mirror will say, "serves them right, should have dug up the Blessed Martin".
I really hope he fucks off to the UAE, or some other place where nobody will ever care enough to mention him, sorry Him, again.
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I maintain my oft repeated view that the core of it is owing to Birmingham never having sold a myth about itself to the world, like the NW, NE and London have done. Squeaky wheels get grease, meanwhile we just carry on quietly doing our thing. It's not in the Birmingham character to overmythologise itself, so the media have nothing that they can lazily and uncritically buy from us.
The best British myth IMV is Scousers having a great sense of humour. All the miserable tosspots from that most dismal city that I've met and spoken to must be the rare exceptions then...
You rightly dismiss the ludicrousness of there being an innate Scouse sense of humour, but only after you've mentioned 'the Birmingham character'!
What on Earth is the Birmingham character? How did it come to exist, if it did (which it didn't)?
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The English media has always had it in for Birmingham. This may be slightly OT, but take a look at the following link (scroll down to the Don Manuel Alvarez Espriella 1807 Letters from England). It's a long, but fascinating, and sometimes hilarious, account of a visit to Birmingham in 1802. It's written as though the author had been flung into the lowest level of hell. Probably spent too much time in Small Heath.
See if you can spot the quote that was used in the previous incarnation of the Bullring, which still survives in today's abomination. And who said Brum doesn't know how to promote itself?
http://billdargue.jimdo.com/placenames-gazetteer-a-to-y/places-p/pype-hayes/
Birmingham will never, ever be loved by England. Yet, unlike scousers and mancs in particular, Brummies tend to give a whole lot more back.
"in no other age or country was there ever so astonishing a display of human ingenuity"
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The teams that are doing well get a lot of positive media coverage.
The teams that were good once, but are struggling, get a lot of negative coverage.
The teams that are broadly performing to par don't get much coverage at all.
When something surprising happens it gets discussed.
We've been doing badly this season; now we've done something surprising.
People have opinions. Is Pauliewalnuts inherently anti-Man City because he said Dzeko was 'some Bosnian who's done alright in Germany'? Or is he just thinking out loud and giving an honest first impression?
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that all of the reporters left the press meetings with Randy in the summer with phrases like "sell-to-buy", "sustainable business" and "balancing the books" in their notepads.
Did they all simply misunderstand Randy?
Which press meetings with Randy?
I remember one piece in the Independent, and him talking to a couple of journos over a meal at the HH once, but that's about it.
The person I remember speaking most about sell to buy was Martin O'Neill.
I also don't remember reading anytihng anywhere about "balancing the books"
They're not attributing those sentiments to Martin O'Neill, they attribute them to Lerner. Perhaps it was the piece in the Independent and "a couple of journos over a meal", I'm not sure.
Collymore was talking this evening about being with national and local journos today (he mentioned Henry Winter) and he described them referring to their notes of meeting with Lerner and the phrases "sell-to-buy" and "balancing the books".
Why would they make it up?
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yeah.. it was bizarre really. And they drew a little picture to prove it. no offence mind :0)
The only stat I've seen that draws them together is that they are the 3 most prolific strikers.
On what basis are Bent, Rooney and Drogba the most inaccurate strikers in the Premier League?
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personally i think he changed his mind. if yer that rich you can. he was obviously pissed off with the wasters MON was buying and obvoiusly has a bit more faith in GH's targets. not the only one frankly
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yeah.. it was bizarre really. And they drew a little picture to prove it. no offence mind :0)
The only stat I've seen that draws them together is that they are the 3 most prolific strikers.
On what basis are Bent, Rooney and Drogba the most inaccurate strikers in the Premier League?
it was based on how many goals they'd scored this season. it was so petty - he probably is the 3rd most inaccurate premiership striker on his goal total. like i said it was just an exercise in taking the piss out of him/villa
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They're not all against us. Found this article on the Guardian website. Good read:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2006/mar/05/features.sport7
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Of course it's a good read Stu, it's written by a Villa fan.
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that all of the reporters left the press meetings with Randy in the summer with phrases like "sell-to-buy", "sustainable business" and "balancing the books" in their notepads.
Did they all simply misunderstand Randy?
Which press meetings with Randy?
I remember one piece in the Independent, and him talking to a couple of journos over a meal at the HH once, but that's about it.
The person I remember speaking most about sell to buy was Martin O'Neill.
I also don't remember reading anytihng anywhere about "balancing the books"
They're not attributing those sentiments to Martin O'Neill, they attribute them to Lerner. Perhaps it was the piece in the Independent and "a couple of journos over a meal", I'm not sure.
Collymore was talking this evening about being with national and local journos today (he mentioned Henry Winter) and he described them referring to their notes of meeting with Lerner and the phrases "sell-to-buy" and "balancing the books".
Why would they make it up?
I guess it depends on how much they want to twist this:
Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1277890/Randys-rulebook-Lerner-says-Aston-Villa-boss-Martin-ONeill-staying-sell-buy.html)
Lerner added: 'I have given Martin the assurance that I wanted to take the team forward. 'There's money there to be spent on the team but I say that carefully within the context of knowing that the summer brings a very dynamic environment of players coming and going and rethinking existing contracts. I'm not saying simply: "Here's some new money - go and spend it".
'Our ambitions to get better remain and we are not in some sort of mode in which we are shutting the door on spending on players. But to say that alone would be misleading. I think there's a sell-to-buy policy in nearly every organisation on the planet. I think it's good business.'
Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2010/05/13/aston-villa-chairman-randy-lerner-rules-out-mega-money-signings-and-talks-of-sell-to-buy-transfer-policy-97319-26435112/)
“There’s money there to be spent on the team,” he said.
“I say that carefully within the context of knowing the summer brings a very dynamic environment of players coming and going and rethinking existing contracts.
“So I’m careful not to simply say here’s a brand new amount of money, go and spend it. I’d prefer to say our ambitions to get better remain and that we are not in some sort of mode in which we are shutting the door on spending on players.
“But to say it simply as a lone statement without including it in the broader realities of what the summer brings would be misleading.
“I think there’s a sell-to-buy policy in nearly every organisation on the planet.
“I think that it’s good business to try to sell to buy.
“I think. on the other. hand if opportunities arise in which the net number of sell-to-buy doesn’t equal what’s required to take advantage of an opportunity then you may spend the money and I wouldn’t exclude us from that group that may do that.”
Moxley chose to leave off the part about conducting transfers even if the amount coming in was less than the amount going out, Matt Kendrick still chose to lead with a Sell to Buy headline despite the content of the piece contradicting that. Whatcha gonna do.
The part where RL actually talks about sell to buy sounds like he'd been asked a direct question and gave a general response about good business practice, standard business practice even (I don't think there are many organisations that would survive for any length of time by spending more than they take in). I didn't take it at the time to mean that the drawbridge was going up and we were done competing. Others made that leap, a bit too willingly if I may say so.
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Of course it's a good read Stu, it's written by a Villa fan.
I know it is, but the point is we do get coverage. I was trying to cheer people up a bit, this thread was becoming a whinge-fest :P
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I don't neccessarily think the media are anti-Villa. It's just that all of a sudden their perceptions of the club have been blown clean out of the water. What's left is the feeling that little, desperate Aston Villa have committed financial suicide in their efforts to stay in the PL. And how dare they not give MON that money if it was available all along.
Every pre-conceived thought and notion about the club is now being re-evaluated and it's rather uncomfortable.
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Much like the TV channels, success for Aston Villa is not in the best interests of the national printed media. Their audience is the run of the mill casual, glory hunting supporter who wants to read all about Torres or Rooney, day after day after fuckin' day.
If you want news on Villa via a newspaper would you buy a tabloid? I would imagine most would plump for the Mail or E+S, but if you live in Banbury it's a bit tricky trying to get hold of the Liverpool Echo or Manchester Evening News.
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The money WAS there for O'Neill, the board were unhappy on who he wanted to spend it on.
They were also not pleased about the wages he wanted to give said players.
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that all of the reporters left the press meetings with Randy in the summer with phrases like "sell-to-buy", "sustainable business" and "balancing the books" in their notepads.
Did they all simply misunderstand Randy?
Which press meetings with Randy?
I remember one piece in the Independent, and him talking to a couple of journos over a meal at the HH once, but that's about it.
The person I remember speaking most about sell to buy was Martin O'Neill.
I also don't remember reading anytihng anywhere about "balancing the books"
They're not attributing those sentiments to Martin O'Neill, they attribute them to Lerner. Perhaps it was the piece in the Independent and "a couple of journos over a meal", I'm not sure.
Collymore was talking this evening about being with national and local journos today (he mentioned Henry Winter) and he described them referring to their notes of meeting with Lerner and the phrases "sell-to-buy" and "balancing the books".
Why would they make it up?
Sorry, are you asking why a journalist would make something up to get a better story?
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Atleast Alan Brazil and Ronnie Irani seem to understand that O'Neill was buying too many average players on such high wages.
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Nearly all the journalists bought into the "sell to buy" policy when it was anything but that. That they have been proved totally incorrect is a tad embarrassing for some of them so now we get the "why did they not give MON the funds" from the likes of Holt etc. It's not that they simply just don't get it. They don't appear to want to get it.
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I think that many of them also have a sense of frustration at the fact that Lerner is so determined to keep his own council. Pat Murphy, who I like and who has, of course, reported on the Villa for years, often points to this as a source of rancour within the media. I suppose this was previously off-set by MON's ability to interact with them, whereas maybe Houllier just isn't concerned with it. Certainly he seems more likely to simply say what he's thinking - for better or worse, as we know - and doesn't seem to worry whether it puts their noses out of joint or not. Saying that, I've noted that he is being a bit more careful of late. Note how yesterday he referred to 'our ambition', 'our efforts', 'our club'.
Other than that, I'm sure laziness comes into it, too. It's just easier to recycle the story doing the rounds than be fully informed, I guess.
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The bullshit, bollocks and badly researched ramblings of certain so called pundits and hacks really does boils my piss. Why is it that certain sections of the media show such utter contempt for our club?
What have we done so bad to be sneered at for spending £18 million on a player that is the third highest league scorer in the last three seasons?
We really do seem at odds with them..
I agree with you mate. All yesterday on the footie websites it was as if they couldnt be arsed to report with a little bit more enthusiasm or use any kind of Capital letters to promote a headline. If it had been Everton or Spurs the wankfest would have been immeasurable.
It also seems fashionable to sneer at this purchase wheras Spuds had bought him for £1.5m less 2 years earlier. The problem you have is there are too many ManUre, Liverpool and new age romantics (i.e. chelski and arse) fans in the media and therefore a club like ours to win the league would still be sneered at by the press.
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Have a read of this from the London Standard:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23915521-as-aston-villa-sink-their-pond-is-just-the-right-size-for-darren-bent.do
I can only assume the author is a Mackem living in London...if not, words fail me!
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Have a read of this from the London Standard:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23915521-as-aston-villa-sink-their-pond-is-just-the-right-size-for-darren-bent.do
I can only assume the author is a Mackem living in London...if not, words fail me!
I did enjoy the one and only comment on that piece crap journalism though. What a sour w***er.
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Your a tool my good sir, Sunderland are ahead of villa for the first time in 4 years and you think going to villa is a step back just because they are ahead of us in the league??
We have been top 6 3 years in a row, and are in a transitional season after mon walked out on the club and left us in the shit, with a useless overpaid bench of players whose value has halved.
Jordan henderson will be off, wellbeck will be back to utd after his loan, onouho isnt guaranteed to sign, so the wheels can easily come off the sunderland bandwagon, villa will emulate spurs, whose postion before redknapp was precarious. This is a great signing for us with more quality to follow.
Good day sir, this is more gutter press.
- greg, Brum, 19/01/2011 13:24
Mr Nash, is this you? ;)
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that all of the reporters left the press meetings with Randy in the summer with phrases like "sell-to-buy", "sustainable business" and "balancing the books" in their notepads.
Did they all simply misunderstand Randy?
Which press meetings with Randy?
I remember one piece in the Independent, and him talking to a couple of journos over a meal at the HH once, but that's about it.
The person I remember speaking most about sell to buy was Martin O'Neill.
I also don't remember reading anytihng anywhere about "balancing the books"
They're not attributing those sentiments to Martin O'Neill, they attribute them to Lerner. Perhaps it was the piece in the Independent and "a couple of journos over a meal", I'm not sure.
Collymore was talking this evening about being with national and local journos today (he mentioned Henry Winter) and he described them referring to their notes of meeting with Lerner and the phrases "sell-to-buy" and "balancing the books".
Why would they make it up?
So, what it comes down to, is something you've heard Stan Collymore say, which now "everyone seems to be ignoring".
Right-o.
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Id be more than concerned if the Daily Mail were Pro-Villa.
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It's always been there, I feel. You still read the odd piece about the title winning team of '81 and can't escape the creeping 'they were lucky to win it, Ipswich should have won it' theme.
Much of it centres around the managers. They love Harry Redknapp because he dishes out no end of soundbites and quotes for them, so they love Spurs. When MON was with us, the interest in us noticeably grew and lifted us out of ordinary a bit - in their eyes. Funny, really, when you consider what O'Neill gave the media; barely anything in terms of information. On TV he came across quite well, but even then a bit... eccentric.
I agree with Dave - most of it is down to laziness, a lot of them are ill-informed and a lot of journalists these days don't make an effort to look into things; much like the opinion that went round that Houllier lost face by recalling Petrov, Reo-Coker to the team after dropping them for a couple of months (when in fact they were injured, as everyone else knew). They decide an agenda and go with it. There's perhaps a bit of annoyance that we've gone against the script:
Villa Sell Star Player
Brilliant Manager Quits In A Fury
Owners Don't Release Any Funds
New Manager Out Of His Depth
New Manager Drops Senior Players
New Manager Forced To Grovel And Recall Senior Players
Villa Plunge Towards Relegation
Villa Smash Transfer Record To Sign Top Class Striker.... HANG ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Nearly all the journalists bought into the "sell to buy" policy when it was anything but that. That they have been proved totally incorrect is a tad embarrassing for some of them so now we get the "why did they not give MON the funds" from the likes of Holt etc. It's not that they simply just don't get it. They don't appear to want to get it.
Absolutely spot on, Bren.
Back then: "He's effectively forced MON out by stopping investing"
Whilst looking for a manager: "Who is going to want to go there seeing as they have to sell to buy?" and "the new appointment is going to have to sell Ashley Young as one of his first acts"
When we got a manager: "They're realising that when you stop spending, you slip down the table" (I think i saw this one as recently as last week from that cocksocket Oliver Holt) - the implication being that spending money correlates directly to points (more on this in a moment) ***.
When the transfer window opened: "They've got no money to spend to get out of this mess, they'll have to sell Ashley Young AND Stewart Downing to fund it"
When we sign Darren Bent: "It's an act of desperation" / "They've offered him loads of money" (which is never a problem when anyone else does it) / "Why didn't they give MON that money?"
Of interest on the last point:
1. We spend a lot of money, so the first thing they think is not "Hmmm, maybe Lerner hadn't pulled the plug at all, and we were wrong?", it is "Ah, they should have given MON that money, there's another stick to beat him with"
2. Whereas previously, as mentioned above ***, they said that continually supporting MON with further money would have guaranteed moving up the table in the same way that not spending was inevitably pushing us down, for some reason spending big on a proven goalscorer now somehow does not count. Convenient.
For any other club - no doubt including Spurs if, inconveniently, he hadn't already played for them - signing the third highest scorer in the PL over the last five years for that amount of money would be hailed by them as a stunning display of intent, but for us it just gets turned into something to have a go at us about.
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Your a tool my good sir, Sunderland are ahead of villa for the first time in 4 years and you think going to villa is a step back just because they are ahead of us in the league??
We have been top 6 3 years in a row, and are in a transitional season after mon walked out on the club and left us in the shit, with a useless overpaid bench of players whose value has halved.
Jordan henderson will be off, wellbeck will be back to utd after his loan, onouho isnt guaranteed to sign, so the wheels can easily come off the sunderland bandwagon, villa will emulate spurs, whose postion before redknapp was precarious. This is a great signing for us with more quality to follow.
Good day sir, this is more gutter press.
- greg, Brum, 19/01/2011 13:24
Mr Nash, is this you? ;)
Nice one Greg.
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They'll say absolutely anything which avoids the inevitable conclusion that their mate Martin wasn't quite as good as they, or he, thought he was.
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Reading the i newspaper with an article saying "Bent attacked for £24m Villa move"
It is overwhelmingly negative stuff, basically a huge piece on Potatohead's hatred of the striker, with the last paragraph of six with Bent denying it.
I love the i paper, but on this, they can go f*** themselves.
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They're not. We've been on SSN almost non stop since the Bent news. They're showing his goals in training ffs...
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that all of the reporters left the press meetings with Randy in the summer with phrases like "sell-to-buy", "sustainable business" and "balancing the books" in their notepads.
Did they all simply misunderstand Randy?
Which press meetings with Randy?
I remember one piece in the Independent, and him talking to a couple of journos over a meal at the HH once, but that's about it.
The person I remember speaking most about sell to buy was Martin O'Neill.
I also don't remember reading anytihng anywhere about "balancing the books"
They're not attributing those sentiments to Martin O'Neill, they attribute them to Lerner. Perhaps it was the piece in the Independent and "a couple of journos over a meal", I'm not sure.
Collymore was talking this evening about being with national and local journos today (he mentioned Henry Winter) and he described them referring to their notes of meeting with Lerner and the phrases "sell-to-buy" and "balancing the books".
Why would they make it up?
So, what it comes down to, is something you've heard Stan Collymore say, which now "everyone seems to be ignoring".
Right-o.
No, that was a description of how the reporters responded when Stan put to them the same point you are trying to make i.e. that Randy didn't really say/mean those things. They showed him their notes from their press conference interviews with Randy in the summer.
It may have been one big misunderstanding but I don't think it was a misunderstanding based on an elaborate conspiracy within sports journalism to undermine Villa in support of Martin O'Neill.
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We managed to migrate from the inner back pages to the actual back pages quite a few times with MON. The amount of times we were mentioned on the Sunday supplement with actual regard was quite surprising. A few even said we might hit top four and how nice it would be for a change.
then MON left. Apart from the odd account and this morning with bent we hardly ever make back pages. I'm not bothered. I kind of prefer it that way. We have to except we'd have to go the whole season unbeaten, win the league and two cups followed by a repeate performance the year after adding to it the champions league for the media to say we might be alright. But even still I would be surprised if we still wouldn't be taken seriously.
The piece Oliver holt did not long after MON left completely sums the media as a whole up. That twat still makes my blood boil every time he appears on tv. They are lazy pure and simple.
Dave (I think it was. Could of been paulie) mentioned on another threat about SHA and how no one was really bothered about the old board. But now they're up to their usual shinanigans at west ham, the media are now interested. Because it's London, because life doesn't exist outside Watford and because most of them support the club.
So by the looks of it having a movie star, the prime minister, future king of England and head of the bank of England isn't enough. We need chief sports editors too. Only then might the negativity change.
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How long will it take before I read an article about Villa that doesn't mention M***** O'N****?
A lot sooner that we see a thread on here that doesn't.
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Another thought:
It could well be that we are now seen as a threat to the established order.
- We don't have oil money pouring in (¢hel$£a/Saudi Moss Side)
- a 10 year+ manager at the helm (ManUre, Arse)
- or a media darling ('appy 'arry, M***** O'*****)
The UK is still a monarchy, therefore its PL also has a hierarcy. We just upset that with this transfer, and are now getting a torrent of s*** for it. Again should we be aware of it, we can swiftly ignore it as pure jealousy.
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I just did a piece for BBC North which may or may not make it onto Midlands Today. A Sunderland supporter was on there and at the end he asked me to have a bet on whether we'd finish above them. "Sure," I said. "And will you go double or quits on every one of the next ten seasons?" Maybe I'm paranoid, but imagine my 'amazement' when there was a fault with the sound and they had to run the interview again. And this time he didn't ask the question.
Like the majority of football supporters he was a decent bloke and we got on well, but I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if the story isn't edited to make us look the baddies.
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The teams that are doing well get a lot of positive media coverage.
The teams that were good once, but are struggling, get a lot of negative coverage.
The teams that are broadly performing to par don't get much coverage at all.
When something surprising happens it gets discussed.
/Thread.
When we were doing well under O'Neil everyone was riding our jock non stop. We had almost two years of super positive coverage.
When we slip from where we have been the last few seasons it is seen a crisis. We get negative press because of it.
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I don't pay much attention to what the media say i mean sure i read the red tops in the morning but because we are not a London or Manc club we seem to get negative coverage from them so i just think they are looking for someone to give them a rent-a-quote like Arry does and then they can jump around like demented chimps.
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Fraid to say Villa are in Birmingham. When was the last time anyone saw the poncey papers recommend a weekend in Brum of galleries and Michelin star dining? Manchester has perceived coolness. Mind you, Sunderland is a s***hole without rival.
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I've lived most of my time overseas and it is not that the media "hate ' us. It is worse. They ignore us. Obviously we ex-pats usually get syndicated stuff in print and as they sum up the week-end results it is always right at the end "and Aston Villa beat..." By the way.No report.
We have no more presence than Bolton for example. Been like that for decades. If we play Manu or Chelsea or Liverpool the story is based entirely on how they performed against a battling Villa.ie Journeymen.
However, I get every Premiership game, three live now on Sat and the same if relevant on Sunday and all mid week games. Sky Sport News as you get it. Guess what, I cannot believe how they belittle us. We are the 'nearly men and the forgotten men". True. One day. One ffff day. Before I kark it.
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this is from the daily mail, a bit more positive than usual
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1348577/The-Midlander-Villa-fans-doubt-64-carat-owner-Lerner--does-care.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
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this was my favourite line
Let’s face it Villa fans, if you want a look at how not to act during the transfer window, you need only look over at St Andrew’s and have a chortle.
UTV
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If you're able to see the BBC Look North item, it's worth a look at is was as hilarious, as it was bitter. It was lead story, which in Wearside terms was a bit like the Chilean mining story or an earthquake. I know the local news up there do a similar story every three months when Newcastle get a new manager, so it's about balance. The presenter asked at the top of the programe "But why Villa?" as if Bent had gone to Hartlepool or to Durham prison and not to a club which has consistently finished in the top half and been ever present in the top division for the best part of a quarter of a century. If we think there's a southern bias, then it's good to know they're even more myopic - and with shorter memories - in the north east.
but I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if the story isn't edited to make us look the baddies.
Oh, they seemed to let it run...
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The answer to the original question is pure jealousy. Never has there been a more perfect football club than Aston Villa. The colours, the tradition, the history and above all, when the rest of the football world continues in its hideously corrupt way, one team manages to conduct itself properly and concludes a transfer deal that is honest and open.Fuck them all. We are by far the greatest team the world has ever seen.
Very succinctly and eloquently put, if I may make so bold. My sentiment entirely.
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Some scamp has edited Oliver Holt's Wikipedia page...
Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Oliver_Holt&oldid=408824367)
Link is to the current page so you will still be able to see it even if the bit about Bent gets reversed.
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How do I watch the interview Dave?
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On the iPlayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xltwz/Look_North_(North_East_and_Cumbria)_19_01_2011/
Nice to see Villa is headline news somewhere...
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Oliver Holt
Born 22 May 1966 (1966-05-22) (age 44)
Manchester, England
Occupation Author, Journalist
Nationality United Kingdom
Oliver Charles Thomas Holt (born 22 May 1966 in Manchester) is an award-winning sports journalist who writes for the Daily Mirror newspaper in the United Kingdom. He is the son of Thomas Holt and actress Eileen Derbyshire and is an avid Stockport County supporter. He also lost a girlfriend to the new aston villa signing Darren Bent, hence the hatred towards the striker.
very funny
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Well done Dave stood your ground against the bitter Mackem who thinks the season has finished already.
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It should read,
Oliver Charles Thomas Holt (born 22 May 1966 in Manchester) is an award-winning sports journalist who writes for the Daily Mirror newspaper in the United Kingdom. He is the son of Thomas Holt and actress Eileen Derbyshire and is an avid Stockport County supporter. He also has a massive crush on Martin O'Neill , hence the hatred towards the famous football club Aston Villa.
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Edit it then!
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1. Why were they using our old badge? (A bit pedantic I know, but that's not our badge)
2. "Are Villa a bigger club than Sunderland, surely not?" Stupid woman.
3. That Sunderland fan had his rose tinted glasses glued to his face. He was trying to big up Sunderland and completely disregarded that they've been in relegation struggles ever since they were promoted whereas we've qualified for Europe last 3 seasons.
4. I lol'ed when Dave said "Are we going to sell him to Newcastle". Good Job Dave Man. Should have probably brought that Sunderland fan back down to earth with a bump reminding him what Sunderland have done in the last few seasons compared to what we've done. You should of straight up said Villa are a bigger club and we're more successful.
I get that regional news channels are going to bias towards there sports teams, but that was just awful.
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Thats there only chance to become popular with the local "thicko`s" ........
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I just did a piece for BBC North which may or may not make it onto Midlands Today. A Sunderland supporter was on there and at the end he asked me to have a bet on whether we'd finish above them. "Sure," I said. "And will you go double or quits on every one of the next ten seasons?" Maybe I'm paranoid, but imagine my 'amazement' when there was a fault with the sound and they had to run the interview again. And this time he didn't ask the question.
Like the majority of football supporters he was a decent bloke and we got on well, but I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if the story isn't edited to make us look the baddies.
Cracking riposte, Dave.
In answer to the original question, as somebody who has lived outside Brum for nearly 30 years I simply have to say that Birmingham has a slightly negative but fast improving perception, particularly among people who have actually visited the city in the past decade. This attitude is partly outdated in reality but is also driven by the fact that we have produced no major music groups, authors, top level actors or films / sitcoms of national note for a long time. Which means we are rarely in the national news as a city.
As for Villa, most fans of other team that I meet regard us as a proper club with history and tradition, but without the sheer drive and desire to break into the elite. Apart from MON and Big Ron 20 years ago we have not had managers who are adored by the media. And we have had few superstars or media worthy players at the club over the years either. Further, the bottom line with modern football is that the Champs League is the be all and end all for the media. If you are in it they love you, if you are not you are irrelevant. We are not in it so we are not very interesting to them. Our local rivals are not seen as heavyweights either, so there is little national interest in the region or our derby games - contrast this with the NE derby last weekend, which is still a 50k sell out at both grounds despite both teams being fairly dull and average (whilst admittedly having better seasons than ours).
The other side of the coin is that fans of other clubs pointed out to me how much the media were fawning over us 2 years ago when it looked like we may break into the top 4 - they actually felt the press were willing us to do it, as were many neutrals. How quickly we forget...
And for everything I have said above about the Villa the same appllies to Everton (whose fans are doubtless echoing our own words). With the simple exception that they have to put up with infinitely more successful neighbours, which at least changes the perception of their city. And adds to their daily misery......
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' Relegation holders' = LOL
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' Relegation holders' = LOL
And we're in the bottom 3 according to everyone who doesn't support Villa...
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Why is there is common misconception that we have no money ? Is it becasue we never trusted Saint Martin with it ? We sold a player for £16m cash in the summer (not including Ireland) and haven't paid money for a player in 18 months. Of course we have money !!
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On the iPlayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xltwz/Look_North_(North_East_and_Cumbria)_19_01_2011/
Nice to see Villa is headline news somewhere...
I liked the "mediocrity haunted Sunderland" bit at the end, followed by Dave's shit-eating grin, and the Sunderland fan shifting from one foot to the other and fiddling with this phone nervously.
Super stuff.
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`mediocrity-haunted Sunderland'. Love it, love it, love it
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I lost count of the number of times they mentioned that Sunderland are sixth in the table.
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On a serious note, I do worry what the effect will be on the game, now we have invented this concept of "pay him more money than he earns at his present club".
I'm surprised nobody tried it before.
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Soon players could be motivated largely by money, rather than the joy of playing the game of football. If that day ever comes, it will be sad.
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Heard Green on 5 live last spouting the same old crap about Randy not giving M O'N money. When did he become the Oracle of all things football.
The only presenter i've heard question O'N spending is Mark Saggers on TS.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2011/01/bent_spearheads_new_houllier_e.html
Quite pro Villa piece here!
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I was going to start a new thread but I’ve put it in here. Did anyone see You’re On Sky Sports last night? I don’t normally watch this but I had control of the remote and one of the main topics was Darren Bent. Jason Cundy was fronting the show and he was a complete arse and even said that the move and the money paid smacked of desperation! So any ‘Sky 5’ club can spend what they want but we cannot? Basically Cundy was, imo spouting a load of crap.
Perry Groves was his guest and to be fair to him he spoke a lot of sense saying that he almost guarantees goals etc but he did make the faux pas of suggesting that Randy was in the wrong not giving this money to MON to spend
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On the iPlayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xltwz/Look_North_(North_East_and_Cumbria)_19_01_2011/
Nice to see Villa is headline news somewhere...
What was the answer to 'who is going to finish higher' I cant quite make it out.
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In the Sun they say Liverpool want Ashley Young, but deal unlikely as Villa want 20million.
Which part of "they are not for sale end of story" didn't you understand?
Honestly It's soo sad.
Jason Cundy is a snob who thinks he was a great player and sounds clueless when talking about Football.
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In the Sun they say Liverpool want Ashley Young, but deal unlikely as Villa want 20million.
Which part of "they are not for sale end of story" didn't you understand?
Honestly It's soo sad.
Jason Cundy is a snob who thinks he was a great player and sounds clueless when talking about Football.
In my experience as a Villa fan it is never the best idea to start crowing that we wont sell a player.
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Heard Green on 5 live last spouting the same old crap about Randy not giving M O'N money. When did he become the Oracle of all things football.
The only presenter i've heard question O'N spending is Mark Saggers on TS.
He knows nothing about nothing .. typical; BBC pundit
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Tom Dross with a more informed view in the Evening Mail ......
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/west-bromwich-albion-fc-news/2011/01/19/darren-bent-transfer-tom-ross-on-the-impact-for-midlands-football-97319-28011936/
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Jason Cundy is a snob who thinks he was a great player and sounds clueless when talking about Football.
Should that be a K instead of a S in the word snob?
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Jason Cundy is a snob who thinks he was a great player and sounds clueless when talking about Football.
Should that be a K instead of a S in the word snob?
Nope, it should be a T instead of a D.
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No he is so up his own arse, he has no sence of real life, he is a snob but also a complete knob!
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Media comments on that number 39
Is Darren Bent worth £24m?: Stuart James highlights the net worth of Darren Bent in transfer fees. “Those who have enjoyed following Darren Bent on Twitter (69,261 at the time of going to press) should brace themselves for a barren spell as Aston Villa’s club-record signing waits for the storm from the north- east to blow over. ‘Not for a few days,’ said Bent when asked whether he would carry on tweeting at his new club. ‘I can imagine that I’m getting annihilated by the Sunderland fans. I’m going to leave it.’ Unfortunately for Bent, the criticism does not end there. Steve Bruce, Sunderland’s manager, ensured the 26-year-old would be answering questions not only on what it feels like to be cumulatively the most expensive British player – his transfer to Villa, which could be worth up £24m, means Charlton Athletic, Tottenham Hotspur, Sunderland and his latest employers have spent a total of £53m on him – but also whether his head had been turned a few weeks ago.”
Martin Samuel chimes in to the debate. “Is Bent worth £24m? No. Yet in a climate in which relegation costs £30m and instant promotion would be far from guaranteed, his signing makes business sense to Lerner. He has to gamble because logic – stay as you are and Villa will slowly pull away from the bottom three because they have a superior squad – is getting him nowhere. Yet buying Bent is a huge risk. The last time he went to a high profile club for big money, he seemed cowed by the experience and there is a theory that he is best as a big fish in smaller pools, as happened at Ipswich Town, Charlton and Sunderland. Put under the spotlight, as he will be now, he wilts. There is certainly belief within the England international set-up that Bent’s unfortunate run of injuries when called up to the squad may be an adverse reaction to pressure. Is he the man for the big occasion? Is he right for Aston Villa? This very much depends on how one regards the strain of Villa’s fight against relegation. If Bent gets a good start, he undoubtedly has the talent to shoot his new club out of trouble; if he stalls, however, the intensity will mount, the numbers will be a burden, and Houllier cannot afford his man to be crushed by expectation. As for Lerner, this will have been an education. A successful football club must embrace common sense, but madness, too. The trick is to not to allow too much of either.”
Martin Keown looks at Bent’s psychological profile. “Bent has scored only one goal in his last eight league games. His confidence has been affected, and Villa have made him feel wanted again. This move puts him back into the spotlight. But I don’t think that is healthy – you can’t fill that need for extra confidence by moving every time you feel a bit down. When Bent is confident, he is always looking to pull off the shoulder of the last defender; to stretch the opposition defence and pounce on a through ball. He is a goal machine and that is a vital commodity – especially for Aston Villa at the moment. He can play that role on his own up front or in a partnership – as he did so well with Kenwyne Jones last season. Bent has improved a great deal technically since his Tottenham days. He has learned to improvise with his finishing, adjusting his body so he is in a better position to shoot. His use of both feet is impressive, too.”
Oliver Holt sticks the boot in to Bent. “Until yesterday, I had a lot of respect for Bent. I admired the dignity with which he had handled his desperately harsh omission from England’s World Cup squad last summer. I liked the way he had settled at Sunderland. I admired the way he was playing. I was happy he was on to a good thing at the Stadium of Light. But I don’t feel like that now. The guy’s just another mercenary. Another player with no roots. No loyalty. No soul. Sorry @DB11TT, but you’re a tweet… an absolute tweet.”
Sam Wallace adds his two penneth. “Bruce’s relationship with Bent is known to have been problematic even before the past few days’ dramatic developments and yesterday the gloves were taken off when the deal finally went through at 5pm after delays relating to the £6m sell-on fee owed by Sunderland to Bent’s former club Tottenham Hotspur. Sunderland believe that Bent has been angling for a move since an offer for him from Fenerbahce, the Turkish club, was rejected in the summer. As for Bent, who signed a four-and-a-half-year contract worth around £80,000 a week, he is understood to be angry that Sunderland were so hasty on Monday in making public his transfer request.”
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Another player with no roots.
He'd still be playing for Charlton, or maybe Brentford or Leyton Orient. Maybe Holt should give up his highly paid gig and work for the Stockport Express and find his own "soul"?
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On the iPlayer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xltwz/Look_North_(North_East_and_Cumbria)_19_01_2011/
Nice to see Villa is headline news somewhere...
What was the answer to 'who is going to finish higher' I cant quite make it out.
That link doesn't lead to a specific clip? Where is it guys?
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Why are Villa fans so obsessed by the media?
Who gives a shit what they think? They reflect modern society, which, on the whole, is fucked up.
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I would gather together all of this shit and give to the players to read, Bent included. No better motivation than the desire to prove people wrong.
I tend to naturally defend journalists, I don't like to read platitudes particularly when it comes to my club but some of the articles written are beyond the pale and lack respect.
None of these writers would be so vicious about the likes of Rooney or Ferguson, despite their appalling behaviour and this sort of selective criticism does journalism no favours at all.
The hipochrisy in football is breathtaking and it's up to football writers to flag it up. Not fuckin' join in.
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That link doesn't lead to a specific clip? Where is it guys?
There's been another `Look North' since then, so it's probably made way for a story about a chip pan fire in Ryhope
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It should read,
Oliver Charles Thomas Holt (born 22 May 1966 in Manchester) is an award-winning sports journalist who writes for the Daily Mirror newspaper in the United Kingdom. He is the son of Thomas Holt and actress Eileen Derbyshire and is an avid Stockport County supporter. He also has a massive crush on Martin O'Neill , hence the hatred towards the famous football club Aston Villa.
Ha ha
Oliver Holt, what a fuckwit.
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Eleanor Oldroyd and David Pleat shitting all over the Villa now - playing interviews of Bruce and Holloway moaning, and being supportive of their comments; suggesting Villa aren't bigger than Sunderland, and Oldroyd even said Villa should pay more if the want Adam and have got the money.
This is Five Fucking Live! The BBC!
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We have just smashed our transfer record, kept the money in the British game for a Britush player and yet we are seem to be the bad guys.
Fuck em all and man the barricades, its us against the world.
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Just who the fuck is Eleanor Oldroyd?
As for Jason Cundy, his broadcasting repertoire is thus:
"I used to play for Chelsea"
"I know we're talking about The Championship tonight, but did I mention that I used to be at Chelsea"
"When I was at Chelsea.....(insert exaggerated diatribe here)"
"Chelsea's changed a lot since I was there"
"Next on Talksport, we're discussing Chelsea"
"Tonight, Spurs. Are they the new Chelsea? I used to play for Spurs you know, and Chelsea"
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If 'onest 'arry was doing this deal the media would be all over it!
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Chelsea were shit when Cundy was there and Tottenham were probably worse.
In bad teams, he looked particularly average.
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He also scord the jammiest goal ever seen, a sliding clearance in his own half that somehow ended up in Ipswich's net.
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Jesus Christ! What is you want to read about the Bent deal?
You're like a parents at an Alabaman infant beauty pageant .
Listen, you're dead right to think that litlle Esmerelda's the sweeest girl there. But to the impartial eye, while she's got character and a great tale to tell, she looks a bit like Noddy Holder.
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Jesus Christ! What is you want to read about the Bent deal?
You're like a parents at an Alabaman infant beauty pageant .
Listen, you're dead right to think that litlle Esmerelda's the sweeest girl there. But to the impartial eye, while she's got character and a great tale to tell, she looks a bit like Noddy Holder.
When you've finished, I'll have a blast on that bong.
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Normally I'd think fuck 'em and not care. But this time they are being so blatantly hypocritical I reserve the right to get annoyed.
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This is weird.
First, we have Robbie Savage laying in, as expected.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/robbie-savage/Robbie-Savage-column-Why-Darren-Bent-24m-move-from-Sunderland-to-Aston-Villa-is-proof-that-the-game-s-gone-stark-raving-mad-article677429.html
Then we have a bit of sticking up for us from, of all people, James Nursey.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/james-nursey/Revealed-Revealed-How-Darren-Bent-will-fit-into-Gerard-Houllier-s-Aston-Villa-tactical-masterplan-James-Nursey-column-article676961.html
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I normally stick up a bit for the media, it's often "If they say good things about The Villa - great journalism, if they say bad things, biased twats, they all hate us"!
But the last couple of days have been surreal, not one single journalist or pundit seems to be able to say that we have done well here. Picked a target, offered his club a good price, got him, job done.
And not one journo has bothered to think that maybe we really are a better long term prospect for Darren Bent than Sunderland.
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Considering the amount of soundbites GHou gives them at press conferences compared to poker face Marty, I'm surprised they don't cut Houllier some slack rather than continue to eulogise O'Neill further.
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The media are always going to put the boot in now that the Villa hating madman no longer manages us.
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The back page of the Mail today is astonishing. Only a matter of time before Houllier is linked to the murder of Jo Yeates and the resignation of Alan Johnson.
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David Pleat has been accelerated into Public Enemy No 2 after Alan dicksplat Green. Supposedly a football great who harps on about the greatness of his beloved Spurs. (Remind me what season they won the European Cup?) and stating that Villa are a step back from Sunderland for Bent. Eleanor, you are quickly becoming as adept and knowledgeable about sport as Gabby Logan. Step aside and let someone in who knows what they are talking about
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This is weird.
First, we have Robbie Savage laying in, as expected.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/robbie-savage/Robbie-Savage-column-Why-Darren-Bent-24m-move-from-Sunderland-to-Aston-Villa-is-proof-that-the-game-s-gone-stark-raving-mad-article677429.html
Then we have a bit of sticking up for us from, of all people, James Nursey.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/james-nursey/Revealed-Revealed-How-Darren-Bent-will-fit-into-Gerard-Houllier-s-Aston-Villa-tactical-masterplan-James-Nursey-column-article676961.html
The Nursey article is an all too rare example of a football journalist actually giving the situation some thought and analysis. He may or may not not be right but at least he hasn't taken the easy route of "who do Villa think they are, Tottenham?" which seems to be prevailing in most of the media. It seems the fact we're having a bad/transitional season, the first in quite a while, is enough evidence to suggest we aren't a big club, we shouldn't be taken seriously, we have unrealistic expectations etc. I sincerely doubt the media would have attacked, say, Everton in such a manner, and certainly not Spurs when they were languishing at the foot of the table a few seasons ago. Will they have a go at a rather mediocre (and not just this season either) Liverpool if they sign Suarez? I sincerely doubt it.
As for Savage asying it's about money, so what, we could equally argue that case re Milner and Barry. Plus he's a full ninja fuckwit anyway.
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Can somebody remind me why Savage left the Rags for Blackburn. Wasn't it to be further away from his family?
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I'll tell you why the media hate Villa. It's because they're all based in London or Manchester, and they hate the thought that a team from an unfashionable city could break into the big four monopoly. Also secretly they know that history suggests that the one team likely to break into the top four is Villa. No London club has ever won the European cup and don't they just hate that!
Fuck em!
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I'll tell you why the media hate Villa. It's because they're all based in London or Manchester, and they hate the thought that a team from an unfashionable city could break into the big four monopoly. Also secretly they know that history suggests that the one team likely to break into the top four is Villa. No London club has ever won the European cup and don't they just hate that!
Fuck em!
The media don't hate Villa, and certainly not because we might break some monopoly, as if we did they'd be all over us and the club whose place we took would be quietly dropped. The media don't care about Villa. What's happened this week is that we've shown them and their skint/no ambition/hail the Blessed Martin line to be wrong.
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Can somebody remind me why Savage left the Rags for Blackburn. Wasn't it to be further away from his family?
1. To be further away from St Andrews without playing for Carlisle
2. To get away from their fans
3. To play for a bigger club
4. To play for a club that is the biggest in the town in which they are located
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I normally stick up a bit for the media, it's often "If they say good things about The Villa - great journalism, if they say bad things, biased twats, they all hate us"!
But the last couple of days have been surreal, not one single journalist or pundit seems to be able to say that we have done well here. Picked a target, offered his club a good price, got him, job done.
And not one journo has bothered to think that maybe we really are a better long term prospect for Darren Bent than Sunderland.
Is about spot on
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On the subject of David Pleat I have NEVER heard him say anything positive about Villa! I can only assume he was given dog's abuse by the fans when he was in the dugout all those years ago. He must have been the eighties' version of Harry Redknapp. Was Pleat the guy who signed Steve Hodge off us?
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Yet more ill-informed fuck-wittery in The Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/21/darren-bent-transfer-window-villa-sunderland
There was another one about Darren Bent as well but its been removed from the front page. Absolutely full of shize. They must be pissed off that they got it so wrong about Villa's resources, but that's their own fault.
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I don't think the media is particularly anti-Villa, they quite simply don't give a shite about us because we never win anything. Get in the CL and/or start winning things and they'll be noshing us off quicker than Gabby drives down the Expressway.
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Did anyone see central news sport, presenter Steve, knocking and going over the top in my opinion about the transfer tactics on the Bent signing. The inclusion of Michael Johnson into the situation saying his old boss at Blues would not be pleased and Houlier should have shown him more respect and phoned him. Sorry i have always had a suspicion they were Noses,since Mailin went beserk about Blues on air.so Midlands Today from now on.
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This is weird.
First, we have Robbie Savage laying in, as expected.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/robbie-savage/Robbie-Savage-column-Why-Darren-Bent-24m-move-from-Sunderland-to-Aston-Villa-is-proof-that-the-game-s-gone-stark-raving-mad-article677429.html
Then we have a bit of sticking up for us from, of all people, James Nursey.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/james-nursey/Revealed-Revealed-How-Darren-Bent-will-fit-into-Gerard-Houllier-s-Aston-Villa-tactical-masterplan-James-Nursey-column-article676961.html
The Nursey article is an all too rare example of a football journalist actually giving the situation some thought and analysis. He may or may not not be right but at least he hasn't taken the easy route of "who do Villa think they are, Tottenham?" which seems to be prevailing in most of the media. It seems the fact we're having a bad/transitional season, the first in quite a while, is enough evidence to suggest we aren't a big club, we shouldn't be taken seriously, we have unrealistic expectations etc. I sincerely doubt the media would have attacked, say, Everton in such a manner, and certainly not Spurs when they were languishing at the foot of the table a few seasons ago. Will they have a go at a rather mediocre (and not just this season either) Liverpool if they sign Suarez? I sincerely doubt it.
As for Savage asying it's about money, so what, we could equally argue that case re Milner and Barry. Plus he's a full ninja fuckwit anyway.
Might be reading too much into it, but Nursey's 'tipped off' comment there could be quite revealing.
He more than any other journo seemed hellbent on filling every available Villa-related article with negativity in the summer. You could argue that the media only reflects the mood and outlook of the time, they don't set the agenda. But it seemed like a relentless hatchet job.
Now, with a bit of communication from the club (or so it seems), he's pissing in our pocket.
The moral of this story?
I dunno. I'm not sure we should devote too much time to wooing the likes of Emily Bishop's son, Robbie Savage or any other fcukwitt of that pedigree.
But we could probably do with a few of the more respected publications going into bat for us, to counter some of the outright shite that has done the rounds since April/ May last year. Keeping so low a profile as to be virtually underground- as RL prefers- may be a strategy that needs a re jig . Personally I'm happy with it, would much rather RL's approach than that of the Porn Barons or even David Whelan. But there could well be a happy medium.
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Yet more ill-informed fuck-wittery in The Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/21/darren-bent-transfer-window-villa-sunderland
...the shrewdest buy is surely Dean Ashton's £7m move from Norwich City to Upton Park in 2006, which did much to help Alan Pardew's side reach the FA Cup final
Yes, spending £7m on a player who helped get them to a losing FA Cup final only to be a £7m retirement write-off was very shrewd. Total cost, £466,000 per goal. Not including wages.
Much better than say, Jermaine Defoe, Ashley Young, John Carew, Brede Hangeland, Patrice Evra or Nemanja Vidic.
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
!
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
Try it if you think it's easy.
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
Try it if you think it's easy.
Why would I want to?
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
Try it if you think it's easy.
Why would I want to?
To prove yourself right, maybe?
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Getting up at 10AM, then mooching off down to a Starbucks whilst typing on your Macbook Air for a few hours writing about the sport you love whilst sipping on skinny latte's looking very important. Bliss.
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Getting up at 10AM, then mooching off down to a Starbucks whilst typing on your Macbook Air for a few hours writing about the sport you love whilst sipping on skinny latte's looking very important. Bliss.
Evening, Oliver.
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
Try it if you think it's easy.
Why would I want to?
You're right not to want to. It'd be like Simon Weston auditioning for Hollyoaks.
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i would love to be paid to write about the sport i love BUT! what i would hate is my editor breathing down my neck about what should and should not be said. making you fill page after page with soft news about the latest flavour off the month club, or media darling manage. rather than relevant storys. there are those that seem to revel in it, such as holt. there are those who seemingly dont ( different format )soccer am, who find the media frenzy around beckham to spurs as pathetic as we do.
People delude themselves into believing we have a free press and journalists write what they truly think but i think if you sit back and think about it you realise they are puppets whos masters are seldom seen
investigative journalism seems to be restricted these days to finding out what bog gorge michael like to visit.
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i would love to be paid to write about the sport i love BUT! what i would hate is my editor breathing down my neck about what should and should not be said. making you fill page after page with soft news about the latest flavour off the month club, or media darling manage. rather than relevant storys. there are those that seem to revel in it, such as holt. there are those who seemingly dont ( different format )soccer am, who find the media frenzy around beckham to spurs as pathetic as we do.
People delude themselves into believing we have a free press and journalists write what they truly think but i think if you sit back and think about it you realise they are puppets whos masters are seldom seen
investigative journalism seems to be restricted these days to finding out what bog gorge michael like to visit.
Pretty much this.
Man United fans want to be told Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager of all time.
Chelsea fans want to be told how they're still good enough to win the league.
Man City fans want to be told why spending £27 million on Edin Dzeko is going to win them the league.
Spurs fans want to be told they can go far in the Champions League.
Liverpool fans want to be told... ah, forget it.
That's the sort of thing which will sells the papers. Nothing too controversial most of the time, just the same repetitive droan. Just provide the biggest consumers with what they want to hear to massage their ego. So simple yet so effective.
I've got loads of time off at the moment, I'd be willing to give it a go. Hook me up with a Macbook and supply me with all the skinny latte's in the world. It'll be a blast!
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i would love to be paid to write about the sport i love BUT! what i would hate is my editor breathing down my neck about what should and should not be said. making you fill page after page with soft news about the latest flavour off the month club, or media darling manage. rather than relevant storys. there are those that seem to revel in it, such as holt. there are those who seemingly dont ( different format )soccer am, who find the media frenzy around beckham to spurs as pathetic as we do.
People delude themselves into believing we have a free press and journalists write what they truly think but i think if you sit back and think about it you realise they are puppets whos masters are seldom seen
investigative journalism seems to be restricted these days to finding out what bog gorge michael like to visit.
Pretty much this.
Man United fans want to be told Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager of all time.
Chelsea fans want to be told how they're still good enough to win the league.
Man City fans want to be told why spending £27 million on Edin Dzeko is going to win them the league.
Spurs fans want to be told they can go far in the Champions League.
Liverpool fans want to be told... ah, forget it.
That's the sort of thing which will sells the papers. Nothing too controversial most of the time, just the same repetitive droan. Just provide the biggest consumers with what they want to hear to massage their ego. So simple yet so effective.
I've got loads of time off at the moment, I'd be willing to give it a go. Hook me up with a Macbook and supply me with all the skinny latte's in the world. It'll be a blast!
The implication is that somehow Villa fans don't want any of the above?
Well, after reading this thread then it's clear that we do.
So, either you think that somehow Villa fans are inherently better than other fans (which would be wrong, and scary); or you've JUST GONE AND IGNORED THE VILLA, JUST LIKE ALL THE PRESS! LOOK AT US, LOOK AT US, SAY OUR NAME! VILLA! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE...VILLA!
Or you could grow up.
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Where's the implication?
We all say the media couldn't care less about us, it's pretty much true. Even when we make our record signing they still find a way to be negative about us!
Lets be honest, those six teams I mentioned are only in the best intrests of the papers and media in general. Those are the clubs that are going to be making the headlines. Why? Because they have the most fans hence more papers will be sold. Easy stories = easy $$$
Not quite sure where I've implied that we're better than anyone else. So by saying that those six teams are more relevant than us in the media and in general, it somehow means in some sort of strange way it means I'm being snobby and pretenious?
Pah! I'm off to grow up and become a Man United fan. Cya later Vilers!
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
Try it if you think it's easy.
Why would I want to?
The £400,000 one of them is getting as mentioned earlier?
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
Try it if you think it's easy.
Why would I want to?
The £400,000 one of them is getting as mentioned earlier?
Saying 'Try it if you think it's easy' answers nothing.
On that basis we shouldn't criticise the Goverment unless 'We can do any better.'
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[[/quote]
Pretty much this.
Man United fans want to be told Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager of all time.
Chelsea fans want to be told how they're still good enough to win the league.
Man City fans want to be told why spending £27 million on Edin Dzeko is going to win them the league.
Spurs fans want to be told they can go far in the Champions League.
Liverpool fans want to be told... ah, forget it.
That's the sort of thing which will sells the papers. Nothing too controversial most of the time, just the same repetitive droan. Just provide the biggest consumers with what they want to hear to massage their ego. So simple yet so effective.
I've got loads of time off at the moment, I'd be willing to give it a go. Hook me up with a Macbook and supply me with all the skinny latte's in the world. It'll be a blast!
[/quote]
As A Manchester City fan I agree with this except that there is actually another side to it. For example, fans not only like to see their own temas getting praised but fans of all the other teams want to see their opponents getting slagged off. So if you write an article saying how great, say Edin Dzeko is, then you please the City fans. However, if you write an article saying how shit he is and what a waste of money, you please fans of United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Villa, arsenal etc etc. so there's more mileage in doing that. Hence all the shit we've endured for doing exactly what United and Chelsea have been doing for years. Anyway, beware, if you sign top players, that's what you get.
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I'm starting to get tired of us getting slagged off for spending a large amount on Bent. We are being portrayed as the bad guys yet did the press slate £iteh for taking Barry & Milner off us, course not. Bollocks to the lot of em.
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I'm starting to get tired of us getting slagged off for spending a large amount on Bent. We are being portrayed as the bad guys yet did the press slate £iteh for taking Barry & Milner off us, course not. Bollocks to the lot of em.
er..yes...with a vengeance !
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I'm starting to get tired of us getting slagged off for spending a large amount on Bent. We are being portrayed as the bad guys yet did the press slate £iteh for taking Barry & Milner off us, course not. Bollocks to the lot of em.
er..yes...with a vengeance !
what papers mate? down here i didnt see any of that. not saying they didnt. just that i missed it.
if it was in manc papers they editor was probably a red lol. like Twatum who takes such pride in pouring bile on the villa
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The quality of football journalism is very very poor, they can hardly string a coherant sentance together let alone come up with relevant opinion.
I dont read much of it, once i read some idiotic comment by one of them or see thier pathetic ramblings on Sky, I avoid them. It must be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, few of them are any good at it.
Try it if you think it's easy.
It might not necessarily be one of the easiest jobs on the planet, but he's right that the general quality is very, very poor.
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So to summarise, any journalist who writes anything we disagree with is not only shit at their job they are all being manipulated by arch villain Martin O'Neill as part of a huge anti Villa conspiracy.
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So to summarise, any journalist who writes anything we disagree with is not only shit at their job they are all being manipulated by arch villain Martin O'Neill as part of a huge anti Villa conspiracy.
no not just villa. every club the media see as being small gets the same whitewash from the media.
if i ran a paper and sales were way down in london i too would make my writers spam it with bollox about london clubs if it ment a nice bonus for me in the long run.
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I'm starting to get tired of us getting slagged off for spending a large amount on Bent. We are being portrayed as the bad guys yet did the press slate £iteh for taking Barry & Milner off us, course not. Bollocks to the lot of em.
er..yes...with a vengeance !
what papers mate? down here i didnt see any of that. not saying they didnt. just that i missed it.
if it was in manc papers they editor was probably a red lol. like Twatum who takes such pride in pouring bile on the villa
One of those things you only notice when you're on the receiving end. Since we won the lottery, it's been unbelieveable until quite recently Believe me, it'll die down and they'll move onto the net target unless it's a media darling club based in London such as Spurs Arsenal, Chelsea or United !
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i would love to be paid to write about the sport i love BUT! what i would hate is my editor breathing down my neck about what should and should not be said. making you fill page after page with soft news about the latest flavour off the month club, or media darling manage. rather than relevant storys. there are those that seem to revel in it, such as holt. there are those who seemingly dont ( different format )soccer am, who find the media frenzy around beckham to spurs as pathetic as we do.
People delude themselves into believing we have a free press and journalists write what they truly think but i think if you sit back and think about it you realise they are puppets whos masters are seldom seen
investigative journalism seems to be restricted these days to finding out what bog gorge michael like to visit.
Pretty much this.
Man United fans want to be told Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager of all time.
Chelsea fans want to be told how they're still good enough to win the league.
Man City fans want to be told why spending £27 million on Edin Dzeko is going to win them the league.
Spurs fans want to be told they can go far in the Champions League.
Liverpool fans want to be told... ah, forget it.
That's the sort of thing which will sells the papers. Nothing too controversial most of the time, just the same repetitive droan. Just provide the biggest consumers with what they want to hear to massage their ego. So simple yet so effective.
It's all a bit chicken and egg, though. The reason why a club wins over new followers is partly because of the media coverage they get. Compare the coverage in the media Susan Boyle gets compared to Leonard Cohen; who has the most fans and who sells the most records? Media bias affects a club's earning potential and development - surely that is not fair?
If anyone saw Sky cover Kenny Dalglish's return to Anfield and witnessed the the editorial decision they made to allow the broadcast of the whole of "You'll never Walk Alone" (along with obligatory shots of crowd, banners etc.) then you would have seen the subtle bias of the media in all its glory. When was the last time a TV company featured the whole build up of a match at Goodison? When did they last allow us to hear the whole "Z Cars" build up with shots of the Everton fans? I've never, ever known them to do it.
The media creates clubs' identities and sells these identities to the public. When it comes to Villa they don't seem to be interested: they could focus on our role in the formation of The League, they could focus on McGregor but they don't.
Maybe it's not their fault, come to think of it. Maybe we should be looking at our own PR guys? Perhaps the clubs mentioned in the post above simply have more effective PR departments?
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It's all a bit chicken and egg, though. The reason why a club wins over new followers is partly because of the media coverage they get. Compare the coverage in the media Susan Boyle gets compared to Leonard Cohen; who has the most fans and who sells the most records? Media bias affects a club's earning potential and development - surely that is not fair?
If anyone saw Sky cover Kenny Dalglish's return to Anfield and witnessed the the editorial decision they made to allow the broadcast of the whole of "You'll never Walk Alone" (along with obligatory shots of crowd, banners etc.) then you would have seen the subtle bias of the media in all its glory. When was the last time a TV company featured the whole build up of a match at Goodison? When did they last allow us to hear the whole "Z Cars" build up with shots of the Everton fans? I've never, ever known them to do it.
The media creates clubs' identities and sells these identities to the public. When it comes to Villa they don't seem to be interested: they could focus on our role in the formation of The League, they could focus on McGregor but they don't.
Maybe it's not their fault, come to think of it. Maybe we should be looking at our own PR guys? Perhaps the clubs mentioned in the post above simply have more effective PR departments?
[/quote]
That is undoubtedly true. Every year City have to play united at old Trafford on the Munich anniversary for maximum sympathy arousal and yet they would have you believe that the fixtures are computer-genearated. Look at Fergie who selects which media he will speak to and woebetide anyone who criticises his club. Journalists are not stupid and no wonder none of them risk getting themselves banned by saying something that the club might not like. That said, you also have to look at the allegiances of the pundits in the media. Stan Collymore and, to a lesser extent, Andy Gray will always give you a villa perspective. I defy you to tell me a pundit symathetic to City.
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Lee Dixon
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I have to be honest, I'm loving all this. It'll be even sweeter if Bent hits the net today. An even bigger 'up yours' to the media folks.
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I defy you to tell me a pundit symathetic to City.
Lee Dixon. Boyhood fan, ex-Arsenal so hates Man U.
I think there's more pro-Liverpool pundits than Man U. Ex-Liverpool go on to the pundit's sofa, ex-Man U into management. Of course that then leads to all the vomit inducing "master vs apprentice" bollocks whenever they roll over for Fergie twice a season.
My view on the original topic is that I think the media is only anti-Villa in so much as we're not one of the chosen few (Sky 4 plus Spurs). I don't think they're any more anti-us than about 14 other clubs in Prem. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread as well, we've had 4 years where we were viewed very sympathetically due to the MON factor so don't really buy into any conspiracy theory against us.
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We all get a little bit precious about it, it was only ten days or so that most were calling GH all the ****** under the sun, he's now spent a few bob, we've got no more points but he's the best thing since sliced bread. The favour of the press lurches in much the same way.
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Pretty much this.
Man United fans want to be told Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager of all time.
Chelsea fans want to be told how they're still good enough to win the league.
Man City fans want to be told why spending £27 million on Edin Dzeko is going to win them the league.
Spurs fans want to be told they can go far in the Champions League.
Liverpool fans want to be told... ah, forget it.
That's the sort of thing which will sells the papers. Nothing too controversial most of the time, just the same repetitive droan. Just provide the biggest consumers with what they want to hear to massage their ego. So simple yet so effective.
I've got loads of time off at the moment, I'd be willing to give it a go. Hook me up with a Macbook and supply me with all the skinny latte's in the world. It'll be a blast!
[/quote]
As A Manchester City fan I agree with this except that there is actually another side to it. For example, fans not only like to see their own temas getting praised but fans of all the other teams want to see their opponents getting slagged off. So if you write an article saying how great, say Edin Dzeko is, then you please the City fans. However, if you write an article saying how shit he is and what a waste of money, you please fans of United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Villa, arsenal etc etc. so there's more mileage in doing that. Hence all the shit we've endured for doing exactly what United and Chelsea have been doing for years. Anyway, beware, if you sign top players, that's what you get.
[/quote]
Yep, that's the flip side of the coin too.
Every non-Chelsea fan joined united in there hate for John Terry after what he (alledgely) did. Same for Rooney and Ronaldo etc...
You have to take the smooth with the rough, especially being a high-profile club which is why I'm sick of all the whining, narcissistic, self-centered plastics which falls under the category of Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Man City and to an extent these days, Liverpool.
As for Man City being criticized heavily (and deserved some times too) by the media as their prime target, it's just something you've got to accept. Mancini's playing fantasy manager spending like it's a battle of armageddon, the slightest thing that goes wrong and they'll come down on you like a sledge hammer. You can't really complain though, who cares what some poxy journos think? Spend your money and stuff the media, pandering to the media claiming you're not 'ruining football' is a no-go because it's universally agreed Man City have taken the spirit and fun out of football.
Chelsea fans couldn't give a damn what other small timers thought when they won the league. Just enjoy the ride, everyone dislikes big market teams for numerous reasons.
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Every non-Chelsea fan joined united in there hate for John Terry after what he (alledgely) did. Same for Rooney and Ronaldo etc...
Did Man Utd fans dislike John Terry more than anyone else beforehand?
I didn't think anyone other than Chelsea fans had ever liked him.
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Every non-Chelsea fan joined united in there hate for John Terry after what he (alledgely) did. Same for Rooney and Ronaldo etc...
Did Man Utd fans dislike John Terry more than anyone else beforehand?
I didn't think anyone other than Chelsea fans had ever liked him.
It went up as #3856 reason to dislike John Terry for United fans - they always seem to 'have it in' for Terry, the Ferdinand vs Terry debate adds fuel to fire too.
Terry is a scumbag though. Overrated scumbag.
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Every non-Chelsea fan joined united in there hate for John Terry after what he (alledgely) did. Same for Rooney and Ronaldo etc...
Did Man Utd fans dislike John Terry more than anyone else beforehand?
I didn't think anyone other than Chelsea fans had ever liked him.
It went up as #3856 reason to dislike John Terry for United fans - they always seem to 'have it in' for Terry, the Ferdinand vs Terry debate adds fuel to fire too.
And reason #3856 for the rest of us as well then?
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Every non-Chelsea fan joined united in there hate for John Terry after what he (alledgely) did. Same for Rooney and Ronaldo etc...
Did Man Utd fans dislike John Terry more than anyone else beforehand?
I didn't think anyone other than Chelsea fans had ever liked him.
It went up as #3856 reason to dislike John Terry for United fans - they always seem to 'have it in' for Terry, the Ferdinand vs Terry debate adds fuel to fire too.
And reason #3856 for the rest of us as well then?
True, but for whatever reason United fans try and make out their hate for scumbag Terry is more 'personal'.
Ask any United fan which player they hate the most, old Tezza comes out trumps.
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Every non-Chelsea fan joined united in there hate for John Terry after what he (alledgely) did. Same for Rooney and Ronaldo etc...
Did Man Utd fans dislike John Terry more than anyone else beforehand?
I didn't think anyone other than Chelsea fans had ever liked him.
It went up as #3856 reason to dislike John Terry for United fans - they always seem to 'have it in' for Terry, the Ferdinand vs Terry debate adds fuel to fire too.
And reason #3856 for the rest of us as well then?
True, but for whatever reason United fans try and make out their hate for scumbag Terry is more 'personal'.
Most Man Utd fans tends to be dicks.
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Sky News Radio reports a "shock defeat to Man Citeh".
>:(
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Sky News Radio reports a "shock defeat to Man Citeh".
>:(
It kind of is really though. With their outlay on players and league position, any neutral would have expected a City win.
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Perhaps John Terry once used the word `Munich' without observing a minute's silence afterwards
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John Terry is a Man Utd fan
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With today's result i couldn't resist emailing Oliver holt with a picture of todays programme.
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With today's result i couldn't resist emailing Oliver holt with a picture of todays programme.
What was the pic? Could you post it up here?
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Dont know how to. I've tried (plus I'm doing this from my mobile)
Just a picture of DB's mug on the front of our match day programme with the title
"A picture says a thousand words"
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With today's result i couldn't resist emailing Oliver holt with a picture of todays programme.
Excellent. He really is a bellend.
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This one is absolutely beyond belief.
Unlikely lads Holloway, Martin O'Neill and Owen Coyle earn all managerial plaudits
This has been the Premier League season of the managerial unlikely lads, three of them in particular, and one of them hasn't even overseen a game.
Just as the reputations of Ian Holloway and Owen Coyle have been enhanced this season, so has Martin O'Neill's.
Before a ball was kicked in anger, O'Neill was roundly criticised for leaving Aston Villa on the eve of battle. His flightiness was slated, his ability to work when a chairman tightened the purse-strings was questioned.
Yet as Villa struggled under Gérard Houllier, O'Neill's stock began returning to its summer valuation, rising again when said chairman, Randy Lerner, opened his wallet in an attempt to halt the team's slide.
People began to empathise more with O'Neill's pre-season stance as Houllier spent £18 million on Darren Bent, rising to £24 million if he turns into Alan Shearer, and £5 million on Jean Makoun, plus the loan move of Kyle Walker.
A penny – or £29 million – for O'Neill's thoughts.
His view that Villa needed strengthening was vindicated. Quitting the club was not a hissy-fit, but a decision rooted in frustration at Lerner's now-changed policy.
Villa boast fine, emerging young players like Ciaran Clark and Marc Albrighton, but a balance of young guns and old howitzers is required.
For Villa to continue improving, and competing against wealthier clubs, they needed to invest. Belatedly, the cavalry has arrived, at an inflated cost.
O'Neill is enjoying a particularly good start to the New Year. All the bizarre, embarrassing and tawdry events at Upton Park have seen O'Neill's index soaring. First, people were saying – with some justification – that O'Neill's Midas touch would rescue a team labouring under Avram Grant.
Then, as word filtered out that West Ham's board were making covetous eyes towards O'Neill, he was praised for his sagacity for refusing to do business with them.
Even in the cut-throat world of management, O'Neill seemed that rare creature, a man of principle, seemingly withdrawing from contention because of the demeaning way Grant was being treated.
If the West Ham board had simply dismissed Grant, waited a couple of days, letting the decree nisi go through, the dust settle, and then contacted O'Neill they might have got their man.
Boards admire O'Neill because he inspires teams. He might even collect a few "if only" votes when Manager of the Year is polled.
The Manager of the Year, in Sir Alex Ferguson's eyes, is Holloway and it is hard to dispute such a verdict, although trophies are not given out in January as Ferguson has often observed.
Holloway's success has been in transferring his own prodigious energy to others. For all the one-dimensional perception of "Ollie", he has a fascinating hinterland, helping explain his drive.
After a recent Blackpool game, Holloway was heading back to the main stand after the press conference, huffing and puffing to himself over a perceived sleight in a newspaper.
I caught up with him for a brief chat and his anger was astonishing. Even though the criticism had been mild, and set against the waves of praise that have rolled down Fleet Street towards him this season, Holloway was seething.
Good managers like Holloway and O'Neill invariably draw on others' negative comments to fuel their fire.
In person, Holloway has a real physical presence, almost a boxer's build, and it is easy to see why players like David Vaughan, Ian Evatt and DJ Campbell respond so readily to his passionate entreaties.
Don't be fooled by the stream-of-consciousness mutterings, some of it bordering on the comic, in interviews. The substance is undeniable.
It is also impossible to escape the view that Holloway has so little time for any prima donna players or precious officials because he faces more real-life issues at home.
"Yes, our children have a severe disability," Holloway once remarked about his three deaf daughters, "but it's an invisible disability and in every other way, they're perfect, and so we're thankful for that.
"To experience the sheer trust and love of a deaf child is amazing. The girls' deafness has touched and enhanced our lives. We're better people because of it."
Another good man, Coyle, also marches to his own beat. Strictly teetotal, a rarity in management, Coyle's impact on Bolton Wanderers has been remarkable, driving them up the table with modest outlay, simply through setting up the players well, tactically and temperamentally.
Johan Elmander has been revitalised while Stuart Holden has been a revelation through the middle. Monday's test against Chelsea will be a challenge Bolton will relish, particularly with all the emotion gripping the Reebok as the club pays tribute to the late, great Nat Lofthouse.
When inspected closely, Coyle's record at Bolton is not particularly impressive, comprising 18 defeats, 12 draws and only 13 wins, but the overall feeling is of a club and players re-energised by the quietly charismatic Scot. An incredibly friendly individual, Coyle exudes an aura of real authority.
Coyle gives the impression of a man it would be dangerous to cross just like Holloway and O'Neill, the season's other unlikely lads.
Whatever we do, clearly MON is going to be the wronged party, he'll cop the credit for the good stuff, and the bad stuff will make him look even better.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/blackpool/8275992/Henry-Winter-unlikely-lads-Holloway-Martin-ONeill-and-Owen-Coyle-earn-all-managerial-plaudits.html
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It's absofuckinglutely unreal.
He walks out at a time that meant we couldn't buy new players, we're finally able to buy them and when we do so, it somehow makes him a better manager.
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Lets see how many of this lot are still great at the end of the season.
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Bloody hell. Two of these "good guys" have walked out of jobs into new jobs leaving their old clubs in the shit. MON walks out on us when he did. What ever have these especially MON done to get such good press?
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I'm shocked, genuinely shocked, by that crock of T-Rex shit masquerading as a story by Henry Winter. Really shocked. I can't even bring myself to list where and why it's so thoroughly, unequivocally wrong. It would take me hours.
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Andy Gray will always give you a villa perspective.
Oh no he won't.
You were right about one thing, though. When some clubs spend big money it's exciting; when others do it, they're killing football.
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Look journos it's simple, Randy had money to spend but after watching Mon waste a large portion of it he held back. Mon didn't like it and stropped off into the sunset. Houllier has now been trusted with decent funding and seems to be using it wisely. Not difficult really is it however if you all want to go on worshipping at the alter of Mon then jog on.
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Look journos it's simple, Randy had money to spend but after watching Mon waste a large portion of it he held back. Mon didn't like it and stropped off into the sunset. Houllier has now been trusted with decent funding and seems to be using it wisely. Not difficult really is it however if you all want to go on worshipping at the alter of Mon then jog on.
But....but......it's just not FAIR!!!!
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Don't let the bullshit bother you.
I've long said I can rely upon the majority of people on this site to provide more insight than the so-called experts.
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I dare anyone to watch The Sunday Supplement on Sky Sports tommorow.
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I dare anyone to watch The Sunday Supplement on Sky Sports tommorow.
That's the biggest positive from me cancelling Sky Sports, not being tempted to watch that fucking rubbish.
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Holy Fuck!
That Telegraph article was written by O'Neills's mom yes?
Come on, somewhere amongst the journalistic dross there must be someone who thinks we have just pulled a transfer masterpiece, that we really are a better long term prospect than Slumberland, and that we might just survive as a club after Our Lord Martin.
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I recall at the time that we got a fair bit of stick for the Ashley Young deal, not so much unsettling him, more overpaying for him.
Steve Bruce at the time said "Ashley Young going for £10 million shows you how crazy the market is" and even having MON as manager didn't save us from criticism in the print media. Twelve months later he was in the England side and probably our most important player
Four years on, who thinks that was a crazy deal? Same when we paid Newcastle £10/12 million for Jimmy.
There will be backtracking of monumental proportions if Bent comes even remotely close to providing the kind of impact those two players did for us and we return to the other end of the table next year. Which, lets be fair, isn't a completely unlikely scenario.
Encouraging thing is that in a supposedly quiet season for him, when he hasn't been at his best, he's already bagged 12 goals in the league and one for England.
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'If Ashley Young is worth £10million what must Gary McSheffrey be worth?'
I believe were Fistface Potatohead's exact words. Now there was a player who went far.
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'If Ashley Young is worth £10million what must Gary McSheffrey be worth?'
I believe were Fistface Potatohead's exact words. Now there was a player who went far.
He's worth a £500k transfer back to Cov.
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I'm shocked, genuinely shocked, by that crock of T-Rex shit masquerading as a story by Henry Winter. Really shocked. I can't even bring myself to list where and why it's so thoroughly, unequivocally wrong. It would take me hours.
I am surprised too because from my, admittedly distant, perspective Henry Winter has always been a lucid reporter showing a positive attitude and great respect towards Villa's standing, tradition and support.
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I'm someone who has never subscribed to the MON as the devil incarnate theories bouncing around on here, but I was frankly staggered by Winter's article.
Unlike many I do not hold any hatred for MON, dissapointment at his departure without doubt, particularly the timing and while the events of the summer are still shrouded in conjecture and speculation, my opinion of our previous boss remains reserved until the full facts are known. It's a pity some journalists don't do the same.
MON remains a very good manager, he proved that with us and he will be an assett to any club who employs him. There is still a question mark over his ability to make the grade as a great manager, I believe he had the opportunity at Villa but threw it away, but to make him out as some genius who has been done a great disservice by the club is absolute fantasy.
I actually hope the written media keep up this wave of negative reporting about Aston Villa, if last nights performance was anything to go by it can be seen as great motivation. How many on here afforded themselves a wry smile at the final whistle and like me, wished they were sat in the press box?
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Good grief! That article by Winter is incredible! It's just utterly absurd!
And I knew it wouldn't take long for some to start praising O'Neill for his 'integrity' regarding the West Ham job. It beggars belief.
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Sorry to buck the trend here, but I find this victim mentality stuff a bit demeaning and embarassing. The media don't hate villa. When we were challenging for the top 4 with really exciting young players, they were all over us, even when our football actually wasn't that good.
When we're struggling, shipping goals and with players' form clearly going through the floor, we get criticised. Again, this is often over the top.
We had a spell where we were more fashionable than I can remember. But for the most part we haven't been. This isn't because of some huge London media conspiracy (which also favours clubs from Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle) but because along with Everton we're the only side who've been in the premier league since the outset but have never really threatened to become one of the genuine big boys.
If the Bent deal amounts to £24m it will be over the odds. Bent is a great goal scorer but he's patently not England or premier league contender class in the same way as Drogba, Rooney or Torres. Worth it for us if he does what he says on the tin and turns us into a side that wins games when both sides have similar numbers of chances rather than loses them as we have this season.
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I dare anyone to watch The Sunday Supplement on Sky Sports tommorow.
That's the biggest positive from me cancelling Sky Sports, not being tempted to watch that fucking rubbish.
It depends who is on, some of them are idiots and some of them have interesting views. A bit like on here.
The Winter article is daft but he clearly likes the man and the last time I checked being liked wasn't a crime. However it's his opinion and he's perfectly entitled to say it.
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I'm shocked, genuinely shocked, by that crock of T-Rex shit masquerading as a story by Henry Winter. Really shocked. I can't even bring myself to list where and why it's so thoroughly, unequivocally wrong. It would take me hours.
I am surprised too because from my, admittedly distant, perspective Henry Winter has always been a lucid reporter showing a positive attitude and great respect towards Villa's standing, tradition and support.
Presumably that positive attitude ceased somewhere around mid-August 2010.
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Sunday supplement, Oliver Holte is a TWAT!
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Holte is at it again on the Sunday Supplement on SkySports, he seriously needs to drop it now he's a cretin that slates us at every opportunity. We should seriously consider banning him from Villa park because I can't remember him saying anything positive about the club since his buddy walked out on us.
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Holt is a tit and no mistake. Of course he is entitled to his opinion and all that, but he just comes across as so wholly uninformed and, to my mind, he has something of a vendetta against Randy Lerner which comes across as very petty and, to be honest, makes him seem like a teenager having a bit of a tantrum. A very poor 'journalist' indeed, but not the only one.
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Holt is a right cvnt.
Did he get touched up by a Villa fan as a kid? He has a bit of an issue with us.
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He obviously watches these forums and is now just doing it on purpose,
Holt if your reading, your a prick.
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Flicking between this and the cricket and thought Holt is going to cause somebody on H & V to burst a blood vessel. He is a knob, an oddly bitter and twisted man. The other two are ok though, Sam Wallace always comes across pretty well on this.
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I'd love to think that Holt actually reads this. If so, I'd like to say that he has a face like a deflated Yorkshire pudding. And he's a shit journalist.
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Henry Winter's article is incredible. That's not meant as a compliment. I don't think Alistair Campbell could have produced something so nauseating.
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Hes making talking out of his anus an art. Plus to get paid to spout it too. A master of the art of talking shite.
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Sorry, didn't see it. Although I can guess, can someone sum up what Holt had to say?
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Holy Fuck!
That Telegraph article was written by O'Neills's mom yes?
Come on, somewhere amongst the journalistic dross there must be someone who thinks we have just pulled a transfer masterpiece, that we really are a better long term prospect than Slumberland, and that we might just survive as a club after Our Lord Martin.
I never really brought into this love affair that MON had with the Media, but Jesus H Christ on a pushbike, since he has gone, they have slaughtered us from every angle.
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I remember Holt making a comment a few years back when O'Leary took over. It was something along the lines of, "Never thought of Aston Villa as a big club, but by the time David O'Leary has got through with them they'll be massive." Yeah right! Shows how much he knows. I think it's better anyway when the media ignore us. We can then go about our business quietly and when the good times come along we can can rub their noses in it! The media are obsessed with London and North West teams. They actually believe that Tottenham, Newcastle and Sunderland are all bigger clubs than Villa. Let em get on with it and just stop buying their rags!
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I read Winters article.
Sorry Jeff, The Villa hating madman is not the God you think he is.
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Winter is a twat of the highest order
I remember writing a vitriolic letter of complaint to him years ago when he wrote about us in very derogatory terms when it looked as if Brian Little might go from Villa to Newcastle to be their manager. He did, in fairness, write a letter of apology to me
My solution is just not to read or listen to any of it. I don't watch Sunday Supplement, never read the after match reports in the paper, never watch any pre- or post-match analysis and I go to the loo at half-time and catch up on here. H and V and, to a lesser extent, VT are the only sources of anything I read about the Villa and, in the case of the former, are about 1000% more reliable, informed and intelligent...
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The Winter article is daft but he clearly likes the man and the last time I checked being liked wasn't a crime. However it's his opinion and he's perfectly entitled to say it.
With freedom of speech comes responsibility.
Responsibility not to sound like a lovestruck teenager who has been jilted on his second date.
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Guess who was on the Sunday Supplement this morning?
"He did it for the money"
"Why didn't Randy Lerner give that money to Martin O'Neill"
"It was a panic buy"
etc...
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The Winter article is daft but he clearly likes the man and the last time I checked being liked wasn't a crime. However it's his opinion and he's perfectly entitled to say it.
With freedom of speech comes responsibility.
Responsibility not to sound like a lovestruck teenager who has been jilted on his second date.
You sound like a Tory MP attacking the BBC and this whole thread is verging on paranoia. If he was waxing on like that about Houllier you wouldn't have an issue with it.
The bottom line is we didn't spend any money last year and although there are mitigating circumstances you are only going to go backwards in this league without it. I think the board have now realised that it was a mistake hence the recent signings. So there is some validity to the sections of the press defending MON, even if they're not getting the full story.
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Winter is a twat of the highest order
I remember writing a vitriolic letter of complaint to him years ago when he wrote about us in very derogatory terms when it looked as if Brian Little might go from Villa to Newcastle to be their manager. He did, in fairness, write a letter of apology to me
My solution is just not to read or listen to any of it. I don't watch Sunday Supplement, never read the after match reports in the paper, never watch any pre- or post-match analysis and I go to the loo at half-time and catch up on here. H and V and, to a lesser extent, VT are the only sources of anything I read about the Villa and, in the case of the former, are about 1000% more reliable, informed and intelligent...
When was this?! Please say it wasn't so!
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Winter is a twat of the highest order
I remember writing a vitriolic letter of complaint to him years ago when he wrote about us in very derogatory terms when it looked as if Brian Little might go from Villa to Newcastle to be their manager. He did, in fairness, write a letter of apology to me
My solution is just not to read or listen to any of it. I don't watch Sunday Supplement, never read the after match reports in the paper, never watch any pre- or post-match analysis and I go to the loo at half-time and catch up on here. H and V and, to a lesser extent, VT are the only sources of anything I read about the Villa and, in the case of the former, are about 1000% more reliable, informed and intelligent...
When was this?! Please say it wasn't so!
Back in the 90s when Little's stock was high and Newcassle were searching for a new manager
Winter wrote about us as if we were Barnsley or some such other club and about Newcassle as they were some sort of equivalent to the modern day Barcelona
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"Why didn't Randy Lerner give that money to Martin O'Neill
That's the crux of the issue for these journalists and like it or not it is still an interesting topic for them when discussing the Villa.
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"Why didn't Randy Lerner give that money to Martin O'Neill
That's the crux of the issue for these journalists and like it or not it is still an interesting topic for them when discussing the Villa.
The old boy in front of me last night wanted to know that*.
His supporters, fans and journalists alike, seem to have an almost religious zeal towards him.
The old boy said to me
'He was the BEST manager we ever had, we should have done more to keep him, the sun rose and set with him as far as I was concerned.'
*The answer is '£10m outlay for Habib Beye, how many more players could we afford to take on like that and never use?'
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I think when it comes to O'Neill some people find it difficult to separate the good points from the bad. He was a good manager for some, bad for others but ultimately he left. I think you can appreciate the strides we made under his tenure while also recognising it was a shitty way to end things.
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Nah.
They're meant to be journalists. I'm sure they know this, it's purposely being ignorant to feed their ego's.
Oliver Holt is just throwing his toys out the pram because he's seething after Darren Bent scored on his debut.
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You sound like a Tory MP attacking the BBC and this whole thread is verging on paranoia. If he was waxing on like that about Houllier you wouldn't have an issue with it.
If you took any notice of my usual posts regarding the media (but why would you!) you would know that I usually stick up for them regarding anti-Villa bias (Pro-Villa - great journalism....anti-Villa - utter garbage etc. etc.), but the Winter article is just awful, he, like so many others in the last few days, just can't get his head around Villa and Hotlips pulling off a transfer coup, targeting a player they needed and getting him without fuss.
He can't bring himself to think that Villa really are a better prospect than Sunderland for a ambitious player hitting his peak, and he just can't see past his MON tinted glasses, he wants Hotlips to fail so he can say "told you so", a bit like some posters on here (not you Chris!).
It's a terrible article from a journalist I actually quite like.
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Holt was an absolute twat this morning. Is that difficult to understand ... Randy wouldn't give MON money cos he'd spunked millions on shit players who never made it close to the first 11. IT IS NOT COMPLICATED YOU FUCKWIT!
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Holt was an absolute twat this morning. Is that difficult to understand ... Randy wouldn't give MON money cos he'd spunked millions on shit players who never made it close to the first 11. IT IS NOT COMPLICATED YOU FUCKWIT!
There was this other snidey, little **** backing up everything Holt was saying.
It's a disgrace they're journalists.
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Dave, it is because I know that you're usually one of the more level headed when it comes to the press that I was surprised by your post above. I don't agree with what Winter has said but I fully accept that it his opinion and that he's entitled to it. I used to get really wound up by Bill Howell in the Mail but in the end he's just a bloke who sees things differently to me. Some of the stuff on here is getting near to Tom Ross phone in level.
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Holt was an absolute twat this morning. Is that difficult to understand ... Randy wouldn't give MON money cos he'd spunked millions on shit players who never made it close to the first 11. IT IS NOT COMPLICATED YOU FUCKWIT!
We all have our own opinions about what caused MON to walk out but none of us know for certain. What we do know was that our failure to invest in the squad last year has had a real impact and we've struggled badly this season and have had to try to spend our way out of it. I understand that Randy wanted to sort out the wage bill but there's no denying that we've suffered for it.
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Randy wouldn't give MON money cos he'd spunked millions on shit players who never made it close to the first 11.
We don't know that, and the media don't know that. That's part of the problem, we can only guess or speculate as silence is usually golden around Villa Park and the departing manager after he goes. The big four also sign "shit" players or pay over the top for signings who don't make it. MON made mistakes, he also signed Young, Milner (both for sums some people on here moaned about at the time), Collins, Cuellar, Dunne etc. Some of the media suspend their critical faculties when it comes to MON but some of the vitriol coming his way and re-writing of history from fans is nearly as bad.
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Dave, it is because I know that you're usually one of the more level headed when it comes to the press that I was surprised by your post above. I don't agree with what Winter has said but I fully accept that it his opinion and that he's entitled to it. I used to get really wound up by Bill Howell in the Mail but in the end he's just a bloke who sees things differently to me. Some of the stuff on here is getting near to Tom Ross phone in level.
Fair enough. But there has been some real pig-headed ignorance in the media over the Bent transfer, there really has. I don't mind people having different opinions to me, but Winter's article (and he isn't alone in this) comes over like a child in the playground sticking his fingers in his ears and going, "La la la la, I'm not listening, la la la, O'Neill was great, Houllier smells, la la la."
Even a small, grudging, "The Bent transfer could be good for Villa, and maybe, possibly Darren Bent." might have made it look a bit better.
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Let's just hope Bent keeps scoring, every goal is a dagger through Oliver Holt's black heart.
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That Winter article is truly cringeworthy.
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Randy wouldn't give MON money cos he'd spunked millions on shit players who never made it close to the first 11.
We don't know that, and the media don't know that. That's part of the problem, we can only guess or speculate as silence is usually golden around Villa Park and the departing manager after he goes. The big four also sign "shit" players or pay over the top for signings who don't make it. MON made mistakes, he also signed Young, Milner (both for sums some people on here moaned about at the time), Collins, Cuellar, Dunne etc. Some of the media suspend their critical faculties when it comes to MON but some of the vitriol coming his way and re-writing of history from fans is nearly as bad.
Herp Derp.
Why did O'Neill leave then?
If we had to pick a story which is most believable as to why O'Neill spat his dummy out I know I'm going to put my faith and trust in our owner rather than a bunch of moronic Hooray Henry's who only attend top 4 matches.
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Winter is a twat of the highest order
I remember writing a vitriolic letter of complaint to him years ago when he wrote about us in very derogatory terms when it looked as if Brian Little might go from Villa to Newcastle to be their manager. He did, in fairness, write a letter of apology to me
My solution is just not to read or listen to any of it. I don't watch Sunday Supplement, never read the after match reports in the paper, never watch any pre- or post-match analysis and I go to the loo at half-time and catch up on here. H and V and, to a lesser extent, VT are the only sources of anything I read about the Villa and, in the case of the former, are about 1000% more reliable, informed and intelligent...
When was this?! Please say it wasn't so!
Back in the 90s when Little's stock was high and Newcassle were searching for a new manager
Winter wrote about us as if we were Barnsley or some such other club and about Newcassle as they were some sort of equivalent to the modern day Barcelona
So it was Winter suggesting it - Brian not actually wanting to make such a move (heaven forbid).
This is another interesting side to football journalism. They slag off players for their lack of loyalty yet have no problem at all in championing movement if it suits their agenda. For example, Oliver Holt makes a big deal about Darren Bent walking out on Sunderland, he makes a big deal about how Randy Lerner did not back O'Neill, yet all the while, in his articles, he was championing O'Neill for the England and Man Utd jobs! If O'Neill walks out on Villa for the England job then that's no problem at all for Holt. Who cares about loyalty then? Who cares about the fans and Lerner's investment in O'Neill up to that point?
My big problem with the media is that it is they who create this mythical pecking order between clubs. Get them on side and they will champion your club and push you forward and promote you. Historically, it is a game Villa never seem to have played.
I think I mentioned this on another thread before: the first English club manager I can think of who got this right was Herbert Chapman; Matt Busby did too. They got the press onside and utilised PR to move their clubs forward.
The big problem for the Midlands clubs, as a whole, is that we are in a media no man's land. For whatever reason the media has gravitated to the North West and London...the BBC moving their entire sports operation to Manchester, for example, simply highlighting this. Maybe we need to invest in some serious PR muscle and work hard on building the profile we think we should have?
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Billy, why didn't your son play yesterday? Is he likely to be available for Wigan?
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The problem with West Midlands football in regards to the media coverage is that if we're going to be quite frank and honest, we're the only really good team (not big market team though) and everyone else is irrelevant and play in the lower league's.
London has a pedigree of big market and successful clubs as does the North-West.
I blame all our rivals for being shit and no marks.
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"Why are the Media so Anti-Everything They Were Trained to Do At Journalism School"
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Billy, why didn't your son play yesterday? Is he likely to be available for Wigan?
He tweaked his back I think. Hopefully returns for Wigan.
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Billy, why didn't your son play yesterday? Is he likely to be available for Wigan?
He tweaked his back I think. Hopefully returns for Wigan.
Who's your son?
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Billy, why didn't your son play yesterday? Is he likely to be available for Wigan?
He tweaked his back I think. Hopefully returns for Wigan.
Who's your son?
It's a joke, Sitch. Refers to young Mr. Kyle Walker.
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The problem with West Midlands football in regards to the media coverage is that if we're going to be quite frank and honest, we're the only really good team (not big market team though) and everyone else is irrelevant and player in the lower league's.
London has a pedigree of big market and successful clubs as does the North-West.
I blame all our rivals for being shit and no marks.
Here's the point I'm making and even our own fans view the football world like this: we are not viewed as a "big market team" because we haven't the media presence or backing. The media plays a huge part in creating this perception of a pecking order. As for a pedigree of successful clubs, Aston Villa are as successful as any. Not only that, but the Midlands is home to THREE European Cups!
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Winter is a twat of the highest order
I remember writing a vitriolic letter of complaint to him years ago when he wrote about us in very derogatory terms when it looked as if Brian Little might go from Villa to Newcastle to be their manager. He did, in fairness, write a letter of apology to me
My solution is just not to read or listen to any of it. I don't watch Sunday Supplement, never read the after match reports in the paper, never watch any pre- or post-match analysis and I go to the loo at half-time and catch up on here. H and V and, to a lesser extent, VT are the only sources of anything I read about the Villa and, in the case of the former, are about 1000% more reliable, informed and intelligent...
When was this?! Please say it wasn't so!
Back in the 90s when Little's stock was high and Newcassle were searching for a new manager
Winter wrote about us as if we were Barnsley or some such other club and about Newcassle as they were some sort of equivalent to the modern day Barcelona
The big problem for the Midlands clubs, as a whole, is that we are in a media no man's land. For whatever reason the media has gravitated to the North West and London...the BBC moving their entire sports operation to Manchester, for example, simply highlighting this. Maybe we need to invest in some serious PR muscle and work hard on building the profile we think we should have?
Is close enough to the right answer. Look at Forest, small club that punched above its weight, became good, won stuff and reached the pinnacle of club football, not once, but twice. Can you imagine if West Ham had done that? Or Bolton Wanderers? You can't help thinking the London/north west media would have talked these clubs up so much that they'd be much bigger than Forest ever got. And look at Forest now.
It's not just in sports journalism, it's in the media as a whole. Listen to 6 Music. A BBC station - a national station - but might as well be called Manchester Music. The media power bases are in London and Manchester and the only city that might challenge both in the country is Birmingham. No wonder it's serially derided. It's not just about the personal preferences of media people in these areas, it's an economic thing too. Run down your competitors as inferior and reap the rewards for yourself.
Do you remember Birmingham's olympic bid? It was laughed at in the media and got very little support nationally. It was destined to fail. Yet when London bid for the olympics, we were all told to back the bid, it would be great for the whole country, etc. etc. Will the olympics in London really be great for Birmingham? Maybe. Could London stand to have the olympics in Brum? Never.
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Ah, I see *delayed and awkward laugh*.
Now we're on the topic of Kyle Walker I'd just like to say I look foward to his return to the team. I like Cuellar and rate him highly but Kyle Walker is a much better right-back.
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I don't agree with the "the media hate us because we're in Birmingham / they're only interested in the north west and London / concerted campaign against us" nonsense, if we were winning things, they'd be all over us as well.
This week, though, there has been a remarkable onslaught against the club.
As for the Winter article, it is really hard to see how any Villa fan - regardless of what he thought of MON's tenure - could not get angry at the way he left and the ensuing chaos (regardless of whether we're now at a point where we should be over it, it doesn't change the fact it happened).
To see a journalist like Henry Winter suggest he's effectively one of the managers of the season, with this his only "contribution" this season shows an absolute contempt for Villa fans. Compare this with the widespread dabbing of wet eyes for the Sunderland fans this week after Bent left them.
Anyway, i had a bit of a rant back at HW ("pongowaring" in the comments section). It at least made me feel better about it and a bit less angry. I'm starting to think, though, that the best idea might be to ignore the football press until the end of the season.
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I don't agree with the "the media hate us because we're in Birmingham / they're only interested in the north west and London / concerted campaign against us" nonsense, if we were winning things, they'd be all over us as well.
This week, though, there has been a remarkable onslaught against the club.
As for the Winter article, it is really hard to see how any Villa fan - regardless of what he thought of MON's tenure - could not get angry at the way he left and the ensuing chaos (regardless of whether we're now at a point where we should be over it, it doesn't change the fact it happened).
To see a journalist like Henry Winter suggest he's effectively one of the managers of the season, with this his only "contribution" this season shows an absolute contempt for Villa fans. Compare this with the widespread dabbing of wet eyes for the Sunderland fans this week after Bent left them.
Anyway, i had a bit of a rant back at HW ("pongowaring" in the comments section). It at least made me feel better about it and a bit less angry. I'm starting to think, though, that the best idea might be to ignore the football press until the end of the season.
Excellent comeback on the Winter article Paulie.
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Just seen it, Paulie, and I think it's pretty incontrivertible stuff you've stuck to there. How anyone could argue against those facts is beyond me.
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I don't agree with the "the media hate us because we're in Birmingham / they're only interested in the north west and London / concerted campaign against us" nonsense, if we were winning things, they'd be all over us as well.
Okay, well let's look at it from another club's point of view. Take Newcastle. Doesn't win stuff. Hasn't won anything in 50 years. Not a London team, or a north west team. Has had miles better press than Villa in the last 20 years. Would it have been covered so positively if the very same club had been smack bang in the middle of, say, Burton on Trent? The Midlands just isn't important in the eyes of the media. I'd be surprised if many people from around the country could tell what a Leicester or Nottingham accent sounds like, for example. It's rarely heard on TV.
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Some good comments coming in on that blog.
Lets turn this around: Say Randy did turn off the tap on O'Neill. If you were Randy, bearing in mind what he had spent past monies on would you have done the same thing? I would have thought about doing it. Why should O'Neill be allowed to bring in a right back when he was two at the club already on top off a player who can fill in in Cuellar and a youngster in Lichaj?
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Somewhat less hysterical piece by Paul Wilson in today's Observer
Darren Bent has moved on, and so should his former club Sunderland (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/23/darren-bent-sunderland-aston-villa)
Oh, and excellent work by pauliebentnuts/pongowaring in delivering the smackdown to Henry Winter's staggeringly ill informed article.
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Only just read the Winter article, i have never read such a sycophantic peice of garbage
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Great reply Pongo (Paulie), nice one. There is quite a few good comments back to him. Will he read them? I hope so.
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To redress the balance somewhat, Gary Lineker has spoken in favour of us in his NOTW column:
On Ian Holloway:
Ollie Is Acting Right Charlie
It's pretty safe to say that Ian Holloway will not get a job at Villa Park any time soon. The Blackpool boss has been disrespectful to Aston Villa in saying he does not want Charlie Adam to go there if he leaves Bloomfield Road.
Villa are a great club. They are not one of the giants of English football, but they are on the next rung. Certainly a step above Blackpool.
He then goes to talk about Charlie Adam, but I can't be bothered to type that.
Also on Steve Bruce/Darren Bent:
It's Well S-Bent
In all walks of life you can move jobs if you want to. I don't see why it should be so different in football. Managers can go when they want. Sunderland's talented manager Steve Bruce (below) has probably done that more than most when it suited him. So he can't whine too much about a player deciding he wants to play somewhere else.
I like Darren Bent. He has scored goals at clubs where he does not get as many chances as he would elsewhere. It's a lot of money. Of course it's probably over the top. But we saw the results last night and it would cost Aston Villa a lot more if they went down.
Villa need a striker who can guarantee goals and can steer them clear of trouble. In which case Bent would be a bargain
So nothing too insightful, but generally pro-Villa on these two issues.
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I have noticed that our own evening mail comic has started to take on a blue tint, or am i just imaging this ?
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Somewhat less hysterical piece by Paul Wilson in today's Observer
Darren Bent has moved on, and so should his former club Sunderland (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/23/darren-bent-sunderland-aston-villa)
Oh, and excellent work by pauliebentnuts/pongowaring in delivering the smackdown to Henry Winter's staggeringly ill informed article.
Paul Wilsons piece was fine IMO, unlike the football sidebar that claimed Bents goal as "biggest disapointment" of the day to all neutrals who would like him to go on a "24M (sic) goal drought".
Eh? There are plenty of fans who whould like us to loose every game, they don't need to be named, but I don't see why neutrals will suddenly have an agenda against us and Bent, particularly in view of our opponents on Saturday.
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Alan Shearer on MOTD is always positive about us.
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Alan Shearer on MOTD is always positive about us.
Alan Shearer wasn't one of the journos waiting around for the delayed press conference the other night when Bent signed. They don't like being kept waiting, or having to buy their own refreshments at The Holte.
It really can be as simple as something like that with some of the hacks. As childish as it sounds they go home and try and find a way of getting back at whoever's upset them.
All this negative press won't do us any harm. Fans can turn on their own club/manager/players at the drop of the hat, but once the criticsm starts coming from the outside we don't like it and tend to rally round in defence of our club. And what we really need both on and off the park right now is an attitude of "it's us against the rest of the world, let's show em."
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To redress the balance somewhat, Gary Lineker has spoken in favour of us in his NOTW column:
On Ian Holloway:
Ollie Is Acting Right Charlie
It's pretty safe to say that Ian Holloway will not get a job at Villa Park any time soon. The Blackpool boss has been disrespectful to Aston Villa in saying he does not want Charlie Adam to go there if he leaves Bloomfield Road.
Villa are a great club. They are not one of the giants of English football, but they are on the next rung. Certainly a step above Blackpool.
He then goes to talk about Charlie Adam, but I can't be bothered to type that.
Also on Steve Bruce/Darren Bent:
It's Well S-Bent
In all walks of life you can move jobs if you want to. I don't see why it should be so different in football. Managers can go when they want. Sunderland's talented manager Steve Bruce (below) has probably done that more than most when it suited him. So he can't whine too much about a player deciding he wants to play somewhere else.
I like Darren Bent. He has scored goals at clubs where he does not get as many chances as he would elsewhere. It's a lot of money. Of course it's probably over the top. But we saw the results last night and it would cost Aston Villa a lot more if they went down.
Villa need a striker who can guarantee goals and can steer them clear of trouble. In which case Bent would be a bargain
So nothing too insightful, but generally pro-Villa on these two issues.
Only thing I'd take umbrage with is 'They are not one of the giants of English football.' However I think he means we are not one of the top clubs at the moment, as opposed to historically so fair enough.
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I don't mind the media criticising Villa when we've done something wrong. But what have we done this time? Shown a bit of ambition and signed a player who a fortnight ago nobody would have thought we'd get anywhere near.
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I don't mind the media criticising Villa when we've done something wrong. But what have we done this time? Shown a bit of ambition and signed a player who a fortnight ago nobody would have thought we'd get anywhere near.
I'd also contrast the general press sympathy for the poor Sunderland fans when we signed their best player last week with the lack of sympathy for us in that Henry Winter piece in which he talks of how MON has improved his status this season.
Not to mention the similar lack of sympathy when we lost Barry and Milner. Oh, and then there's the irony of them acting like we've invented snaring players by offering them more money, on a weekend when we played a team which is entirely created in that way.
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Let it go for fucks sake, this is turning into one long self pitying whine. Yes some journalists have written some crap things over the last couple of weeks but it makes us look really small time to keep going on about it. It will be someone elses turn next week and we'll be moaning because they ignore us.
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It's highly annoying, but the likes of Holt and Winter clearly also have an agenda and I don't think they'd change their opinions even after a 24-hour exclusive interview with Randy. I've just properly read Winter's piece. Bemusing. Can't see how O'Neill's stock has risen, personally. Still without a job, of course - why didn't Liverpool get him in after Roy? And as for his honour and integrity in turning down West Ham's approach... did he? Because I read he was on the verge of accepting the job, while Grant hadn't yet been dismissed, until it was leaked to the media and then he publicly distanced himself.
I just think it's sad the Villa have taken such a battering in the last week - not just the written press, but radio journalists, pundits, everyone's been piling in. I hope it settles down and we can move on.
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I don't mind the media criticising Villa when we've done something wrong. But what have we done this time? Shown a bit of ambition and signed a player who a fortnight ago nobody would have thought we'd get anywhere near.
I still think they are in "Where did that come from" mode.
So convinced were they that we had this "Sell to buy policy". So convinced were they that we couldn't attract a Darren Bent. So convinced that we're not a big club.
We've upset their apple cart.
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Let it go for fucks sake, this is turning into one long self pitying whine. Yes some journalists have written some crap things over the last couple of weeks but it makes us look really small time to keep going on about it. It will be someone elses turn next week and we'll be moaning because they ignore us.
It is naive to expect people not to react after the adverse coverage of the last week or two, and I say that as one who doesn't believe for a moment that stuff about "it's because we're not in London or the North West" stuff we usually hear.
It's also throwing up some interesting debate about the way some sections of the press see MON and the way we do, so it's hardly all just "whining" as you seem to be implying.
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Let it go for fucks sake, this is turning into one long self pitying whine. Yes some journalists have written some crap things over the last couple of weeks but it makes us look really small time to keep going on about it. It will be someone elses turn next week and we'll be moaning because they ignore us.
It is naive to expect people not to react after the adverse coverage of the last week or two, and I say that as one who doesn't believe for a moment that stuff about "it's because we're not in London or the North West" stuff we usually hear.
It's also throwing up some interesting debate about the way some sections of the press see MON and the way we do, so it's hardly all just "whining" as you seem to be implying.
It cetainly isn't 'whining' Chris.
If somebody takes the piss out of our club, they'll get it back in spades.
Be it rival supporters or some ill informed hack with a Deity complex about O'Neill.
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I don't mind the media criticising Villa when we've done something wrong. But what have we done this time? Shown a bit of ambition and signed a player who a fortnight ago nobody would have thought we'd get anywhere near.
I still think they are in "Where did that come from" mode.
So convinced were they that we had this "Sell to buy policy". So convinced were they that we couldn't attract a Darren Bent. So convinced that we're not a big club.
We've upset their apple cart.
Without a doubt.
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I don't mind the media criticising Villa when we've done something wrong. But what have we done this time? Shown a bit of ambition and signed a player who a fortnight ago nobody would have thought we'd get anywhere near.
I still think they are in "Where did that come from" mode.
So convinced were they that we had this "Sell to buy policy". So convinced were they that we couldn't attract a Darren Bent. So convinced that we're not a big club.
We've upset their apple cart.
To admit that we were not a selling club was to admit that MON was a wanker / bottler for walking out - for them to be positive now would mean a huge "we got it wrong" and lets face it they aint never gonna do that
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On the other side of the coin, Philippe Auclair (who is quite close to Houllier) speaking on Football Weekly has pointed out how daft everyone in the media is being. Said that the money had always been there for Houllier to spend and that it was made available as part of the arrangement that made him join back in September. And that there was never any thought on the part of the board to get rid of Houllier.
Also said regarding Makoun that it was interesting that Lyon to allowed him to join. Apparently the deal was more or less agreed ages ago, he then came back into the Lyon side and was playing extremely well for them, leading to quite a good run of form. Hence it being a surprise that they honoured the agreement that had already been made.
He then mentioned that there are a couple of deals already lined up for the summer.
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Darren Bent, scorer of more FAPL goals than any player except Drogba or Rooney, signs for Villa for £18m rising to £24m. The media are incredulous, even though Spurs paid £16.5m for him 3.5 years earlier. That desperate red Scouse team pays £23m for the totally unproven ex-Dutch league player Luis Suarez. No questions asked from hackdom.
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According to the media, Ian Holloway is utterly marvellous. The Michael McIntyre of the FAPL. Holloway himself loves every other team and manager, bar Villa & Houllier for reasons unknown. Once shunned on a Brizzol boys stag do by a Digbeth night lady of French origin, perhaps? Why do they support him for fielding a weak team at Villa Park? Why do they forgive him for pumping up the Adams fee at Villa's expense, even after it is found that he is on a percentage?
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*Cough*
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=41928.0
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Who cares. Fcuk em.
We pissed on their "tractor boys are champions" fairytale in '81 and they wont let it go.
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*Cough*
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=41928.0
Pre: Holloway is in fact flawed evidence, though.
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I think this has been discussed to nth degree on another thread.
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Not being all paranoid, but this is an example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/jan/30/liverpool-fernando-torres-paul-hayward
Apparently if Liverpool sell Torres it'll be good because it'll 'show that the club is bigger than the player'. Fine, but I wonder if they'll say that if/when we sell Ash. They certainly didn't say it when we sold Barry or Milner. Makes you wonder.
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He talks about the "biggest clubs" and despite their recent struggles Liverpool still are and we aren't so his argument wouldn't apply. I'm not sure I agree with him but your response does strike me as slightly paranoid, Monty, looking for a perceived slight that isn't there.
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I'm not trying to use it as claim of a grand conspiracy against the Villa, the Midlands, Randy's cat etc, more that it's a nice example of media favouritism. There would be no article of this ilk should Villa sell Ash, there was none when Villa sold Milner and Barry, it was all "small selling club sells best player to big team when it comes knocking" - which is actually what Liverpool are and are doing.
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You say that you're not claiming a conspiracy about Villa and then use the rest of the post to do exactly that. All clubs have to sell players from time time, the better ones manage to turn it to their advantage.
We sold Barry, then we sold Milner and it looks like we'll probably sell Young. We make a habit of it and it is hard to argue that, so far, we have benefited although spending the equivalent of what we got for Jimmy on Bent might reverse the trend.
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How exactly am I saying there's a conspiracy? I'm just saying we're not one of their favoured clubs, of which there are only a handful. Most clubs wouldn't get the favouritism that Liverpool get. I'm not saying it's anti-Villa, I'm just saying that certain clubs by and large get a pretty easy life from the media, and Liverpool, as a club, are one, and Villa are not.
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As I said, I think that's just a touch of paranoia. This is just one man giving his opinion on a specific point about selling prize assets. Earlier in the season when they were struggling under Woy they were getting all the same sort of negative headlines that we were.
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I can see what Monty is saying. The press did'nt bat an eyelid when Liverpool paid £18m for Glenn Johnson. We pay for the same for a prolific goalscorer and it gets frowned upon by the media.
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I can see what Monty is saying. The press did'nt bat an eyelid when Liverpool paid £18m for Glenn Johnson. We pay for the same for a prolific goalscorer and it gets frowned upon by the media.
Well, they batted an eyelid but not much more. And like you say, they got nothing like the grief we got for Bent. I repeat, I don't think this is a product of some orchestrated campaign against the Villa, more that some clubs generally get a lot more favour from the press than others for a variety of reasons - other than that, negativity always sells more.
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If we are claiming that they do this because of a trend of us selling better players I do not recall any criticism in the media when Spurs sold Carrick and Berbatov.
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If we are claiming that they do this because of a trend of us selling better players I do not recall any criticism in the media when Spurs sold Carrick and Berbatov.
I believe the phrase "good business by shrewd Levy" or similar became something of a cliche.
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If we are claiming that they do this because of a trend of us selling better players I do not recall any criticism in the media when Spurs sold Carrick and Berbatov.
Did you read the press as closely? Did you spend hours disecting each and every article for details of bias? I bet if you are sad enough to trawl the forums of other clubs you'll find similar threads.
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The one thing that has struck me over the past couple of weeks is not some sort of bias against Villa, more the incredulity from many quarters that if Villa had all this money to spend, why didn't they give it to Martin O'Neill?
Meanwhile hardly a single one of them has bothered to think of a reason for themselves, one of the obvius ones being that if Bent was bought using the Milner cash then O'Neill didn't get the money because he fucked off before Milner did!
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Villa never gave any money to O'Neill. FACT.
He did brilliantly to get Villa to sixth which is the highest they've finished in their history. FACT.
Darren Bent only signed for Villa as he is a mercenary. It can't be because Villa are a big club because they're not, see above. FACT.
Villa can't afford to pay for Bent so they must be selling Ashley Young, Albrighton, the Trinity Road Stand and Aston Hall. FACT.
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When did you all turn into Albion fans?
It ay fair, they'm all pickin' on us.
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When did you all turn into Albion fans?
It ay fair, they'm all pickin' on us.
Chris, I'll be crystal clear: I do NOT think they are picking on us, the Villa, specifically; I DO think that we are not among the favoured clubs (ie, the most widely supported clubs, ones for whom giving them positive press would be good for selling papers), so are more likely to receive the kind of negative press that sells more among fans of other clubs.
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When did you all turn into Albion fans?
It ay fair, they'm all pickin' on us.
What's going on Chris?
You used to be one of the first ones jumping up and down if somebody put the club down.
The thread tiltle is
'Why are the media so Anti-Villa?'
It should be
'Why are the media so anti-anything to do with Villa now O'Neill isn't here'
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The one thing that has struck me over the past couple of weeks is not some sort of bias against Villa, more the incredulity from many quarters that if Villa had all this money to spend, why didn't they give it to Martin O'Neill?
Meanwhile hardly a single one of them has bothered to think of a reason for themselves, one of the obvius ones being that if Bent was bought using the Milner cash then O'Neill didn't get the money because he fucked off before Milner did!
An excellent point.
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Monty, I'll by crystal clear I think you're wrong. I think you're mistaking opinion and superficial analysis for something wider. I don't believe there is any sort of agenda. We've been mostly shit this season so stories will be mostly negative, we've got what we deserved, if we improve we'll get more positive.
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No Chris, saying we're a bad team because we're losing games is one thing, reacting to two teams doing similar things completely differently based on which one has more fans and will therefore sell more papers with positivity is another. There's no agenda against us, but if the media don't have a very good reason to be positive then they'll be negative, because that's just the way they operate.
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We're not going to agree on this so let's leave it there shall we? Otherwise we're just going to go round in ever decreasing circles.
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Indeed, and if we're not careful VD will come in with a pie chart 'proving' one side or the other, and nobody wants that.
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No don't stop. I'm hoping one of you will post that league table of net spend and turnover. Or a picture of some old men sucking each other off
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The reaction to Carroll's Liverpool move will be interesting.
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No don't stop. I'm hoping one of you will post that league table of net spend and turnover. Or a picture of some old men sucking each other off
Sir Alex and Holloway after the Blackpool - Man U game last week. That picture has started to circulate then.
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oliver holt just won't let it go!
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-on-transfer-window-Why-theres-something-fishy-about-Darren-Bents-Aston-Villa-move-and-El-Hadji-Diouf-Rangers-deal-proves-football-HAS-gone-mad-article687503.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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Holt really is a wriggly little maggot isn't he? The press don't really give two shits about whether a player was tapped up. They're just miffed that it wasn't them who broke the news to the player in the first place. How many months has Ashley Young's name been in the papers before those wretched Kleenex-addicts tabled a paltry bid? Fucking scrote chompers.
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good god, is he still going on?
no criticism of the bin dippers i see...
******...
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Did anyone notice how anti villa Ian Darke & Steve McMananman were last night on ESPN
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oliver holt just won't let it go!
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-on-transfer-window-Why-theres-something-fishy-about-Darren-Bents-Aston-Villa-move-and-El-Hadji-Diouf-Rangers-deal-proves-football-HAS-gone-mad-article687503.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
He must have been bullied by a Villa fan at school
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Did anyone notice how anti villa Ian Darke & Steve McMananman were last night on ESPN
I did, quite unbelievable underrating of Villa by them, but then, McManaman is a red scouse. By their comments, I easily could've thought that ManUtd is playing against championship-side.
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Any anti Villa bias in the media pales in significance comapred to some of ths shite our own fand have come out with recently.
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oliver holt just won't let it go!
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-on-transfer-window-Why-theres-something-fishy-about-Darren-Bents-Aston-Villa-move-and-El-Hadji-Diouf-Rangers-deal-proves-football-HAS-gone-mad-article687503.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
He must have been bullied by a Villa fan at school
The article assumes Gary Mac talks to his agent every day. Why would he ?
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Any anti Villa bias in the media pales in significance comapred to some of ths shite our own fand have come out with recently.
Like what?
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Who would you love to smack round the face with a pair of week old piss stained y-fronts?
A. Oliver Holt
B. Robbie Savage
C. Stephen Ireland
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oliver holt just won't let it go!
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-on-transfer-window-Why-theres-something-fishy-about-Darren-Bents-Aston-Villa-move-and-El-Hadji-Diouf-Rangers-deal-proves-football-HAS-gone-mad-article687503.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
It's an amazing loads of utter bollocks, I can't even see what his point is.
Bent and McCallister have the same agent so...err...well...err...well it's wrong innit? Yeah! Take that Houllier.
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Who would you love to smack round the face with a pair of week old piss stained y-fronts?
A. Oliver Holt
B. Robbie Savage
C. Stephen Ireland
I love quizzes, C, B and then A for me!
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Maybe we should dedicate every goal Bent scores to our friend Mr Holt. He'll be so pleased.
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Who would you love to smack round the face with a pair of week old piss stained y-fronts?
A. Oliver Holt
B. Robbie Savage
C. Stephen Ireland
Could A,use C to hit B?
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Holt on the Bent transfer (yet again):
A short post-script to Darren Bent's transfer saga. Bent and Aston Villa assistant manager Gary McAllister share the same agent, Neil Fewings.
So either McAllister omitted to mention Villa's interest in Bent to his trusted friend or Mr Fewings deserves our congratulations for managing not to tell Bent about Villa's interest in him until they submitted an official bid.
If he did know, it must have been tough keeping that kind of secret from his best client, but we know that he didn't breathe a word because Gerard Houllier and Villa insist Bent was in the dark until the very last minute.
And they wouldn't lie about that, would they.
Yawwwwwwwwn.
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Fuck off Holt, you know nothing Northern arsewipe
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Christ, it's MirrorSport's answer to Woodward and Bernstein.
Tell you what Oliver, if Niall Quinn is unhappy with the deal, let him register a complaint with the FA. I can think of 24,000,000 reasons why he won't.
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Holt = twat.
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Oliver Holt can't be that stupid can he? She's just trying to drum up some controversy? In fact a lot of reporters seem to be going down a "shock-jock" sound bite route. Look at the length of that "article" and some of the others he's written. I've put more thought in to shopping lists than that.
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Oliver Holt can't be that stupid can he? She's just trying to drum up some controversy? In fact a lot of reporters seem to be going down a "shock-jock" sound bite route. Look at the length of that "article" and some of the others he's written. I've put more thought in to shopping lists than that.
We're liable to see more and more of this type of shit in the future.
Papers know that people no longer go to them first for news, so they're now turning into magazine type publications with articles by fuckwits like Holt offering their addled, agenda driven opinions.
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If you're one of the people who have been upset by Holt and Holloway recently you'll like this article, which concludes with...
"Holloway stands for all the good things in the Premier League. He stands for passion, for determination, for spirit, for indefatigability, for honesty, for excellence.
Whatever he might once have feared, his father would have been proud of him."
The mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Blackpool-Ian-Holloway-has-revealed-the-secret-trauma-over-his-fathers-death-that-has-haunted-him-for-23-years-and-told-how-the-writing-of-a-letter-has-finally-let-him-move-on-article689619.html#ixzz1Cx4CfwRH)
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Any anti Villa bias in the media pales in significance comapred to some of ths shite our own fand have come out with recently.
eh ??
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Any anti Villa bias in the media pales in significance comapred to some of ths shite our own fand have come out with recently.
eh ??
The many posts slagging off our own players, managers and fans.
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oh i see, yes much of it was OTT, some of it at the time was justified IMO
Hopefully the club as a whole has now turned a corner, it was always going to be tough in the aftermath of MON's untimely exit
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"Holloway stands for all the good things in the Premier League. He stands for passion, for determination, for spirit, for indefatigability, for honesty, for excellence.
Whatever he might once have feared, his father would have been proud of him."
http://mastermindmommy.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/sloth-2.jpg
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If you're one of the people who have been upset by Holt and Holloway recently you'll like this article, which concludes with...
"Holloway stands for all the good things in the Premier League. He stands for passion, for determination, for spirit, for indefatigability, for honesty, for excellence.
Whatever he might once have feared, his father would have been proud of him."
The mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Blackpool-Ian-Holloway-has-revealed-the-secret-trauma-over-his-fathers-death-that-has-haunted-him-for-23-years-and-told-how-the-writing-of-a-letter-has-finally-let-him-move-on-article689619.html#ixzz1Cx4CfwRH)
I read the piece but I find filling the sports pages with tales of human woe and struggle distasteful. Holloway in his private life may be a thoughtful, insightful, caring person. But I know him as a manager and I think he's a paranoid gobshite. The two are exclusive in my opinion.
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It is a good piece and Holloway will come out with a lot of sympathy for him, the sceptic in me wonders how long they've been sitting on this story, just waiting for the time when he gets on everyone's nerves and needs a bit of good press.
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Starter for 10, which award winning journalist wrote this?
"Okay, so Darren Bent is a badge-kisser and a money-grabber who betrayed the Sunderland fans who idolised him.
Okay, so he swapped a club chasing a place in Europe for an Aston Villa side flirting with relegation and, intentionally or not, belittled his former teammates in the process.
But nobody's perfect, and memories in football are joyously short. So last night Bent wore his disloyalty easily and England were grateful for him."
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Starter for 10, which award winning journalist wrote this?
"Okay, so Darren Bent is a badge-kisser and a money-grabber who betrayed the Sunderland fans who idolised him.
Okay, so he swapped a club chasing a place in Europe for an Aston Villa side flirting with relegation and, intentionally or not, belittled his former teammates in the process.
But nobody's perfect, and memories in football are joyously short. So last night Bent wore his disloyalty easily and England were grateful for him."
was it from the Mirror ?
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When did he kiss the badge? And which one was it?
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Gotta Emily's lad!
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I see the BBC are all about Wilshere today !!!
Makes you laugh doesn't it !
The Mirror and Mail are both extolling the virtues of Young and Bent and Aston Villa FC after last night.
Must hurt that ....... I haven't read 'shortly out of contract at Aston Villa, Ashley Young scored the winning goal last night' yet !
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I see the BBC are all about Wilshere today !!!
Yeah, well he's a vile little thug who's due a massive comeuppance. If they keep banging on about how ace he is, something bad is going to happen.
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Wilshere is the up and coming bestest player in the universe. Dontcha know? And besides, all this talk about the "outstanding" Arsenal Academy does my head in. We have, arguably a better academy than them and yet all this bias towards the London clubs is sickening.
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Lat night on talk shite Durham was saying WIltshire was the future of English football blah blah he then put it out to the fans
A Bolton fan rang in and said he was a good premiership player but is not anywhere near what Durham was saying - Durham said when i have seen him........ The Bolton fan then said i saw him every game he played for Bolton home and away and i tell you he is ok at best
Durham just laughed then went back to wanking over Wiltshire
Wonder if he will be the bestest player in the world just like Walcott - i dont fully agree with the anti villa stance but the LOndon bias is fucking unbelievable
Just because Arsenal only have 2 English players does not mean they are world beaters
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Wonder if he will be the bestest player in the world just like Walcott - i dont fully agree with the anti villa stance but the LOndon bias is fucking unbelievable
It always has been and it always will be. If and when Cahill moves to a London club, he'll suddenly become the new John Terry.
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That Bolton fan is an idiot then. Wilshire is very good, there aren't many English players that would look as comfortable in the Arsenal midfield. The hype this week has been ridiculous but there is no denying his ability.
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I'm sorry, I know the media habitually favour London clubs and all that, but Jack Wilshere is Iniesta-like in his talent. That Bolton fan clearly doesn't really get football if he thinks Wilshere's "average at best". And as for favouring Arsenal's two English players, the media are hardly wanking themselves into a frenzy about Walcott, despite his very good form. In fact they're quite split over him.
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Wilshere - From what I've seen he probably has potential but he's far from the saviour of the national game. How would you rate his success against that of Albrighton for instance? Wilshere has scored once to my knowledge and although he keeps the ball I'm not sure he's made a massive impact on a game as yet. I do believe some are getting carried away with his apparent 'rise to fame'.
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I'm sorry, I know the media habitually favour London clubs and all that, but Jack Wilshere is Iniesta-like in his talent. That Bolton fan clearly doesn't really get football if he thinks Wilshere's "average at best". And as for favouring Arsenal's two English players, the media are hardly wanking themselves into a frenzy about Walcott, despite his very good form. In fact they're quite split over him.
Indeed.
Wilshire may well be 'the future' - at 19 ( is it?) he is some talent, however last night he was OK, just OK.
Walcott blows hot and cold for the Arse and luke warm for England and the media know he's less likely to be 'the future' than Wilshere.
Non the less, Ash was great all second half - and the kind of coverage he's had is low level compared to what would be the case if he was with ManUre or a That Bolton fan is an idiot then. Wilshire is very good, there aren't many English players that would look as comfortable in the Arsenal midfield. The hype this week has been ridiculous but there is no denying his ability.
In his defense ( the Bolton fan that is), he is Bolton fan.
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The comnparison between Wilshire and Albrighton and what it says about how the media treats the respective clubs is a good one.
Wilshire is a talent and should progress into a top class player, but were he doing that a Villa he wouldn't be anywhere near the England squad and those idiots on Talksport wouldn't even know who he was.
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The comnparison between Wilshire and Albrighton and what it says about how the media treats the respective clubs is a good one.
Wilshire is a talent and should progress into a top class player, but were he doing that a Villa he wouldn't be anywhere near the England squad and those idiots on Talksport wouldn't even know who he was.
That's just rubbish, though. Well, not the Talksport bit, but if he were at Villa he would still be in the England squad. You can't tell me Capello is anti-Villa or has some aversion to picking Villa players after last night, or that he is influenced by media bias when he does things like call up Jay Bothroyd!
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Wilshere is massively over-rated.
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That's just rubbish, though. Well, not the Talksport bit, but if he were at Villa he would still be in the England squad. You can't tell me Capello is anti-Villa or has some aversion to picking Villa players after last night, or that he is influenced by media bias when he does things like call up Jay Bothroyd!
No, he does come to Villa games and picks our players. What I'm saying is that, for whatever reason, more attention is paid to players at certain clubs and that does translate into some favouritism. Remember when McClaren wouldn't pick Barry? Would that have been the case had he have been playing for one of the top four or a Spurs? Had Wilshire done what's he done for Arsenal so far in a Villa shirt he wouldn't have been playing last night.
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Wilshere is massively over-rated.
Based on what? Forget the journos, you're saying you know better than Capello, Wenger, SGT, Ferguson, Lippi, Smith, Guardiola and everyone? Those are just the people I remember offering effusive praise for Wilshere, I'm sure there's more.
John, you acknowledge that Capello picks our players and then explain your point based on what Steve McClaren did. If club matters so much, why were Young and Downing preferred to Johnson and Lennon? They play for the clubs you'd expect to be favoured.
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Wiltshere's talented. Not the answer to England's midfield prayers but definitely good enough to be involved in the squad at the present time. In fact he reminds me a bit in style and stature of our own Barry Bannan.
Anyway, the problem isn't so much with Wiltshire, it's about shoe-horning him into this 'holding' role. No. Doesn't suit him. I've had this discussion about 'holding' midfielders often - on here, but mostly to bored work colleagues or myself. It wasn't until I read this comment from Gary Neville, in the Guardian, that I found someone else who shared my view:
According to Gary Neville, who observed many experiments in the England holding role during 85 international appearances, the hard-tackling quarterback is a modern myth. Neville says: "What happens in football is that there are trends. People see a [Claude] Makelele and say – you need a holding midfield player. Well, do you? Man Utd won the European Cup with [Michael] Carrick and [Paul] Scholes as central midfield players. All of a sudden Makelele defines the Makelele role and everyone says you've got to have a Makelele. What you need is good players who recognise danger. The idea that you need a natural holding midfielder – I don't go along with that."
I maintain that if you have two disciplined central midfield players, you don't need a designated 'holder' and a designated 'attacker'. Midfielders used to do everything. This whole 'Lampard/Gerrard' tedious debate stretching years could have been avoided had they both been instructed to play central midfield properly.
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If you don't play a designated holder, then you need to play 3 bona fide midfielders, no specialists either going forward, like Ash, or defensively, like Makelele.
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John, you acknowledge that Capello picks our players and then explain your point based on what Steve McClaren did. If club matters so much, why were Young and Downing preferred to Johnson and Lennon? They play for the clubs you'd expect to be favoured.
There are no hard and fast rules about it, just a perception I have. Young and Downing have played more and better than Lennon and Johnson so far this season, so they're in. My direct comparison was between Wilshire and Albrighton, who have done well for their clubs in a rookie season and I'd put more or less on a par right now, yet one is starting for England and the other isn't even a squad consideration - why? For me, it's at least partly due to the way Wilshire gets talked up by the press.
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I think it's more the way they play their positions. Albrighton has been outstanding but is clearly lacking a bit in maturity, giving away free kicks at bad times in bad positions, trying to beat his man in his half and losing the ball and so on. Wilshere plays his position with a maturity that a manager knows he can rely on. He almost never loses the ball, produces the odd moment of prodigious magic sure, but also a) doesn't make mistakes and b) is unlikely to be fazed by the occasion.
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If you don't play a designated holder, then you need to play 3 bona fide midfielders, no specialists either going forward, like Ash, or defensively, like Makelele.
See? You've been sucked in to the propaganda, Monty. It's me and Gary Neville against the world.
Seriously, Ashley Young's role is different in that he's not playing as a central midfielder, he's a second striker.
You get two disciplined, talented, physically fit central midfielders comfortable in possession and they don't need to operate as a strict holder/sitter and a free attacking role. Keane/Scholes... Vieira/Petit... they had understandings of what to do. Be interesting to see how Bradley and Makoun operate for us.
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I think it's more the way they play their positions. Albrighton has been outstanding but is clearly lacking a bit in maturity, giving away free kicks at bad times in bad positions, trying to beat his man in his half and losing the ball and so on. Wilshere plays his position with a maturity that a manager knows he can rely on. He almost never loses the ball, produces the odd moment of prodigious magic sure, but also a) doesn't make mistakes and b) is unlikely to be fazed by the occasion.
Fair enough - I rate the lad too.
But I could just as easily throw stats at it and say Marc's scored 4 goals to Wilshire's 1. I didn;t dig our the assists, but I'd guess he's pretty far ahead on that as well.
Incidentially, discipline wise they've both picked up 3 bookings, but Wilshire has also been sent off.
The point being that there's a very strong case to say if ones involved so should the other, but there's not even been a shred of press attention to our player.
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If you don't play a designated holder, then you need to play 3 bona fide midfielders, no specialists either going forward, like Ash, or defensively, like Makelele.
See? You've been sucked in to the propaganda, Monty. It's me and Gary Neville against the world.
Seriously, Ashley Young's role is different in that he's not playing as a central midfielder, he's a second striker.
You get two disciplined, talented, physically fit central midfielders comfortable in possession and they don't need to operate as a strict holder/sitter and a free attacking role. Keane/Scholes... Vieira/Petit... they had understandings of what to do. Be interesting to see how Bradley and Makoun operate for us.
Best example I can think of of that was Keane and Ince for Man Utd - they took turns in getting forward and the one left sitting was able to defend effectively.
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The media do seem anti villa. In that before the England game. The Sunday supplement (I keep wanting to not watch it buts it's like good old rubber necking when you just can't help it).
The main presenter guy was highlighting what was coming up after the break and Darren bent's inclusion in the England squad and scoffed saying is it justified?
After the break they debated it saying he's too selfish etc. They now have a dislike for a player because he now plays for us. Would they be slagging him off as much if he still played for spurs or Sunderland?
They apparently know better than our England manager because even he came out and said bent has changed his game style, doing more for the team. It's shows journalists see what they want to see and report what ever they want to report.
I'm so chuffed he gave two fingers up to those dick heads by scoring last night. and I hope him and ash continue it on Saturday!
Also, did anyone see the SSN segment on the best player of the year yesterday? Nasri and bale were touted then Ian rush came on at the end and mentioned Andy Carroll. WTF?
Just because he's liverpool's £35 million signing he's now become the best player this year on top of the fact that he could be out for the rest of the season... TWAT!
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Wilshere is massively over-rated.
Based on what? Forget the journos, you're saying you know better than Capello, Wenger, SGT, Ferguson, Lippi, Smith, Guardiola and everyone? Those are just the people I remember offering effusive praise for Wilshere, I'm sure there's more.
John, you acknowledge that Capello picks our players and then explain your point based on what Steve McClaren did. If club matters so much, why were Young and Downing preferred to Johnson and Lennon? They play for the clubs you'd expect to be favoured.
Based on the fact that they rate him highly and I don't. I'm not saying I know better than those people you mentioned, just that I don't necessarily agree with them. It all seems very Emperor's New Clothes about him. Not his fault and I'd be very pleased with him if he were a Villa player. I just couldn't believe the rave reviews for him for one half of football in which he didn't do a lot.
That Eriksen for them, now he looked quality.
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If you don't play a designated holder, then you need to play 3 bona fide midfielders, no specialists either going forward, like Ash, or defensively, like Makelele.
See? You've been sucked in to the propaganda, Monty. It's me and Gary Neville against the world.
Seriously, Ashley Young's role is different in that he's not playing as a central midfielder, he's a second striker.
You get two disciplined, talented, physically fit central midfielders comfortable in possession and they don't need to operate as a strict holder/sitter and a free attacking role. Keane/Scholes... Vieira/Petit... they had understandings of what to do. Be interesting to see how Bradley and Makoun operate for us.
Best example I can think of of that was Keane and Ince for Man Utd - they took turns in getting forward and the one left sitting was able to defend effectively.
Could you give me an example from the last five or so years at the highest level? That's to say, since around when 4-2-3-1 became the norm.
So, Meanwood, you're essentially saying you haven't seen him play much at all and, when you did, he wasn't brilliant. Maybe you could reserve judgement until you had a fairer amount of games to judge him on? Not meaning to have a go, it just gets me when people have a view based on very little evidence.
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The reason that Wilshire is getting talked up by the media is because he is a bloody footballing genius. He is the first English footballer of the "new generation" in my opinion. He is exactly the sort of player England have lacked and if we produce more players with the technical ability of him, we will do far better at major tournaments. He is Xavi like in his style of play, not the finished article yet, but extremely promising at 19 years of age. He has a cultured maturity to his game and it is very rare that you will see him give the ball away. It took Iniesta until the age of 23/24 to break into the Barca team. I am afraid people who rate Albrighton along side him at the moment are claret and blue tinted. He has had a very promising start to his career, but he makes silly mistakes that cost us points. He is not ready for the big stage just yet. Wilshire on the other hand is demonstrating he has the ability to be future of English football.
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Ash looked lively when he came on yesterday but his final ball was still a bit pants. I'm not sure he has the nous to play there in a crucial international, or for one of the CL sides.
Wasn't sold on Adam, but after the Fulham game on Sat you could see why GH wanted him. Makoun/ Petrov providing the platform and Adam (or similar) being given the freedom to pick a pass could well be the way to go for us. Bradley could well replace Stan, which would give our midfield more legs.
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If you don't play a designated holder, then you need to play 3 bona fide midfielders, no specialists either going forward, like Ash, or defensively, like Makelele.
See? You've been sucked in to the propaganda, Monty. It's me and Gary Neville against the world.
Seriously, Ashley Young's role is different in that he's not playing as a central midfielder, he's a second striker.
You get two disciplined, talented, physically fit central midfielders comfortable in possession and they don't need to operate as a strict holder/sitter and a free attacking role. Keane/Scholes... Vieira/Petit... they had understandings of what to do. Be interesting to see how Bradley and Makoun operate for us.
Best example I can think of of that was Keane and Ince for Man Utd - they took turns in getting forward and the one left sitting was able to defend effectively.
Could you give me an example from the last five or so years at the highest level? That's to say, since around when 4-2-3-1 became the norm.
I think when you play a 4-2-3-1 it's less about them having an all round game as they're both primarily defensive in nature. Were it Keane and Ince in that formation they'd both be 'holding' players to allow the 3 attackers and striker to get on with it.
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I am afraid people who rate Albrighton along side him at the moment are claret and blue tinted.
Just to point out I think he'll be a better player than our Marc, but I do think my argument of one being so far ahead of the other right not being based on merit/performance for club is right.
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I was thinking more about why 4-2-3-1 has replaced the kind of "one sits, one goes on" 4-4-2. The main reason is that 4-4-2 is terrible for holding onto possession in crowded midfield battles. There just aren't enough options for the player on the ball, it really is that simple. 4-2-3-1 solves that problem by the central player of the three providing a linking role between the deep midfield two, usually consisting of a destroyer and a creator, and the forward play (here formation names can be misleadingly over-specific - the difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-1-1 isn't huge). I still prefer the Barca 4-3-3 because: it's less easy to play against you by blocking the link between the 2 and the 3; all the midfielders are have to do everything so you don't end up relying on individuals having good days or not being marked out of games; and because you always have players on the wings, stretching the pitch.
Anyway, we've gone wildly off topic, other than to say we could invent a new formation that always beats every other one and the media would probably credit it to 'Arry.
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I think it's a myth that 4-4-2 is too static and lacks passing options, as sometimes we get too drawn into formations and forget it's the players that are important. 4-4-2 if fine if you have a striker that drops deep to link play and fullbacks that like to get forward and are comfortable on the ball. If you have any variation on the 4-2-3-1 it can still have issues if the players are sticking rigidly to their positions.
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I think it's a myth that 4-4-2 is too static and lacks passing options, as sometimes we get too drawn into formations and forget it's the players that are important. 4-4-2 if fine if you have a striker that drops deep to link play and fullbacks that like to get forward and are comfortable on the ball. If you have any variation on the 4-2-3-1 it can still have issues if the players are sticking rigidly to their positions.
If you're 4-4-2 has a striker who drops deep and links with the midfield, what precisely is the difference between that and the 4-2-3-1? Some 4-2-3-1s are more defensive, some more attacking, but what is certain is the death of the old 4-4-2 with two wingers and two out-and-out strikers at the highest level. In that system, it really isn't a myth that you have fewer options on the ball, as the fact that there isn't a single top team or manager in Europe using that system clearly demonstrates.
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Could you give me an example from the last five or so years at the highest level? That's to say, since around when 4-2-3-1 became the norm.
Man United winning league and Euro Cup with Scholes and Carrick playing in tandem springs immediately to mind; both players capable of sitting deeper to knock the ball around, win the ball, but also get forward. When you say 4-2-3-1 became the norm... are you referring more to international football?
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Could you give me an example from the last five or so years at the highest level? That's to say, since around when 4-2-3-1 became the norm.
Man United winning league and Euro Cup with Scholes and Carrick playing in tandem springs immediately to mind; both players capable of sitting deeper to knock the ball around, win the ball, but also get forward. When you say 4-2-3-1 became the norm... are you referring more to international football?
The point with Man Utd that year was that it was almost 4-6-0. There was no out-and-out striker, let alone two. Three of Rooney, Tevez, Park, Giggs would join Ronaldo and play with complete interchangeability up front. Park and Giggs were particularly useful to United that season because they could fill in defensively if Scholes or Anderson went forward (Carrick practically always held back). 4-2-3-1 is the norm because it's the easiest system to throw together at relatively short notice in an age when almost no club is assured of holding onto their best players for any length of time.
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I think it's a myth that 4-4-2 is too static and lacks passing options, as sometimes we get too drawn into formations and forget it's the players that are important. 4-4-2 if fine if you have a striker that drops deep to link play and fullbacks that like to get forward and are comfortable on the ball. If you have any variation on the 4-2-3-1 it can still have issues if the players are sticking rigidly to their positions.
If you're 4-4-2 has a striker who drops deep and links with the midfield, what precisely is the difference between that and the 4-2-3-1? Some 4-2-3-1s are more defensive, some more attacking, but what is certain is the death of the old 4-4-2 with two wingers and two out-and-out strikers at the highest level. In that system, it really isn't a myth that you have fewer options on the ball, as the fact that there isn't a single top team or manager in Europe using that system clearly demonstrates.
But then is it about starting positions or where they wander to or how Sky stick up their graphic of the team? Spurs in recent years were playing a 4-4-2, yet when Keane was on the pitch he would invariably be deeper and getting involved. In the early years Fergie played Cantona and Hughes upfront in a 4-4-2, but I recently (last few years) heard him liken where they ended up more to a 4-2-3-1. My argument being that I don't care whether we set up as 4-4-2 or not as I thing it's of minor importance compared to the ability and inclination of the players to be fluid within that. If 4-4-2 is easily snuffed out as you know where everyone is going to be, then does it not follow that 4-2-3-1 could also be just as easily countered if there's no movement within that system.
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I completely agree John, the point is fluidity. Indeed, Ferguson has been quoted as saying that formations only exist when you don't have the ball. However, certain starting formations allow for greater fluidity than others, and for greater variety of gameplan. And besides, I don't really like 4-2-3-1, it's too rigid and too 'specialist', relying on individuals doing their jobs rather than the team working together.
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However, certain starting formations allow for greater fluidity than others, and for greater variety of gameplan.
I think that's the bit we really disagree on.
For me it's all to do with the players.
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I completely agree John, the point is fluidity. Indeed, Ferguson has been quoted as saying that formations only exist when you don't have the ball. However, certain starting formations allow for greater fluidity than others, and for greater variety of gameplan. And besides, I don't really like 4-2-3-1, it's too rigid and too 'specialist', relying on individuals doing their jobs rather than the team working together.
I agree with you on this. And I think that's why we've had problems at villa park this season. I think MON had our players all doing specific roles and not deviating from them. Houllier is trying to get our footballers to now play with fluidity and they're not used to it and it's taking a while for them to adapt.
The very best footballers you allow to play. It was hodgson's problem at Liverpool, trying to keep it structured as he did at fulham, the likes of gerrard and Torres don't play like that.
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Formations are all about the latest fads. The best players can play any formation.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
The 30 odd games that Downing played between the beginning of December and end of April coincided with our most consistent period during MON's tenure P32 W18 D9 L5, the defeats were against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea*2 and Man Utd. We were a very fine team.
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Why not include the last two games of the season?
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Or say what the score in one of the games against Chelsea was?
Personally I did not find watching the team last season that enjoyable and for me you would have to go back to the 07/08 Season to when we were decent to watch. Once you start performing to a consistent level you need to build upon it and then become more entertaining. We instead got gradually worse and more predictable to watch.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
The 30 odd games that Downing played between the beginning of December and end of April coincided with our most consistent period during MON's tenure P32 W18 D9 L5, the defeats were against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea*2 and Man Utd. We were a very fine team.
Problem there was the 9 draws, which is pushing one every third game, and if I remember rightly weren't against clubs we'd be happy enough with a point against.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
The 30 odd games that Downing played between the beginning of December and end of April coincided with our most consistent period during MON's tenure P32 W18 D9 L5, the defeats were against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea*2 and Man Utd. We were a very fine team.
I didn't think we lost to Man U last season?
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
The 30 odd games that Downing played between the beginning of December and end of April coincided with our most consistent period during MON's tenure P32 W18 D9 L5, the defeats were against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea*2 and Man Utd. We were a very fine team.
I didn't think we lost to Man U last season?
Didn't we beat Chelsea at home as well ?
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Why not include the last two games of the season?
because I was responding to the claim that the improvement lasted for only a few games in December by pointing out that the good run of form lasted for 5 months.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
The 30 odd games that Downing played between the beginning of December and end of April coincided with our most consistent period during MON's tenure P32 W18 D9 L5, the defeats were against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea*2 and Man Utd. We were a very fine team.
I didn't think we lost to Man U last season?
Didn't we beat Chelsea at home as well ?
They were the games at Wembley.
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Why not include the last two games of the season?
because I was responding to the claim that the improvement lasted for only a few games in December by pointing out that the good run of form lasted for 5 months.
Home form was pretty dismal though.
And some of the matches included the 'classsic' away encounter at Stoke, one of the crappest football matches I've ever seen.
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Why not include the last two games of the season?
because I was responding to the claim that the improvement lasted for only a few games in December by pointing out that the good run of form lasted for 5 months.
Actually I was saying that the fluidity of style didn't last for very long. And as John says, we'd draw against sides who'd come to VP happy to come away with a point. That's the problem with the system we played: shut up shop and you'd have to have literal geniuses in there to break teams down. For the rest of us mere mortals, the formation is important. How often have we seen it that teams filled with good players have massively underperformed through poor tactics? Milan in the mid-90s springs to mind, as does England at the last two World Cups, Spain for innumerable tournaments etc. Classic example - Argentina at the World Cup had a team full of excellent players but the tactics and formation were all wrong and they couldn't get the best out of what they had. Just as telling as the four they conceded against Germany was the big round zero next to their own name on the scoresheet.
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Why not include the last two games of the season?
because I was responding to the claim that the improvement lasted for only a few games in December by pointing out that the good run of form lasted for 5 months.
Besides, the point at hand was how 'fluid' Villa's football was, and that kind of fluidity WAS confined to those few weeks near the end of 20009.
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Why not include the last two games of the season?
because I was responding to the claim that the improvement lasted for only a few games in December by pointing out that the good run of form lasted for 5 months.
Besides, the point at hand was how 'fluid' Villa's football was, and that kind of fluidity WAS confined to those few weeks near the end of 20009.
Do you reckon we'll have won the cup by then?
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I think a large part of the reason we saw that fluidity peter out was the lack of a pre-season for Downing catching up on him after the initial adrenaline surge of being back playing football again.
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Why not include the last two games of the season?
because I was responding to the claim that the improvement lasted for only a few games in December by pointing out that the good run of form lasted for 5 months.
Besides, the point at hand was how 'fluid' Villa's football was, and that kind of fluidity WAS confined to those few weeks near the end of 20009.
Do you reckon we'll have won the cup by then?
Our martian right back will be the toast of Aston. But he'll only be on loan from Sporting Uranus.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
The 30 odd games that Downing played between the beginning of December and end of April coincided with our most consistent period during MON's tenure P32 W18 D9 L5, the defeats were against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea*2 and Man Utd. We were a very fine team.
Problem there was the 9 draws, which is pushing one every third game, and if I remember rightly weren't against clubs we'd be happy enough with a point against.
Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs, Everton, Sunderland were decent results. The other 4 West Ham, Stoke(a), Wolves and Palace (a) could be described as disappointing.
That kind of consistency has been very rare in my Villa supporting life and seems a long way away right now.
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@OllieHoltMirror on Twitter. That is all
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http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/james-nursey/James-Collins-and-Richard-Dunne-have-most-to-lose-if-Gerard-Houllier-s-Aston-Villa-go-down-which-is-why-they-ll-battle-to-make-sure-they-stay-up-James-Nursey-column-article718095.html
But this one's not so bad. Positive, even. Same newspaper, different writer.
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The most fluid I ever saw us under Martin was when Downing first got into the team and he, Milner and Ash were interchanging beautifully.
Agreed. Just before Christmas 2009, we played some good stuff for a few games.
Then teams worked out that all you had to do was close down our midfield in the centre and we'd basically stop scoring because we'd have so few options and would end up having to pass back to Cuellar, who'd duly thump it away.
The 30 odd games that Downing played between the beginning of December and end of April coincided with our most consistent period during MON's tenure P32 W18 D9 L5, the defeats were against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea*2 and Man Utd. We were a very fine team.
I didn't think we lost to Man U last season?
Only in the one that mattered, at Wembley.