Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: JJ-AV on January 06, 2011, 07:21:17 PM
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It's been playing on my mind since last night just how far we've falling since hitting 40+ every week and looking like finsihing in the top 4, to losing 0-1 at home to fucking Sunderland, with £12.50 tickets infront of 34k and finishing the night in the relegation zone.
In 2 years we've falen massive, and while not all of these are anyone inparticulars fault. But what has gone wrong since Jan 2009 when we looked likely to finish in the top 4?
1) A lack of investment in January leaving us with gaps in our squad.
2) MON’s lack of rotation that cost us 4th place, not trusting the squad players that he signed and thus alienating them.
3) Laursen’s retirement.
4) Signing Downing with the Barry money. We could have got Johnson for half the price, smaller wages and he wasn’t injured.
5) Signing Dunne on such a long and big contract. Fantastic for a season, but 18 months into his 4 year deal on 60k a week, he’s arguably not good enough anymore.
6) Signing Beye
7) Selling Gardner while the likes of NRC and Sidwell were ahead of him in the pecking order.
8) Delph’s injury
9) Failing to sell Davies, Beye, Sidwell, Osbourne, Heskey or Carew in the Summer. Heskey is the only one who contributes anything yet they’ve earned £12m in wages between them in 2010. Without taking into account the bigger fees we’d have got in the Summer.
10) Not investing in the squad last Summer.
11) Selling Milner
12) Signing Ireland
13) MON walking
14) Promising to appoint a new manager so quickly and thus backing yourself into a corner
15) Randy ruling out appointing anyone who was currently in a position as a manager, and thus limiting the appointment to applicants.
16) Not giving it to Kevin Mac ‘for the foreseeable future or until an outstanding applicant becomes available’.
17) Appointing Houllier before he was actually able to take over, not having any idea if we’d be able to get his preferred choices for assistants before giving him the job.
18) Houllier singling out Dunne, Warnock, Ireland and Carew. We need them.
Anything I've missed? ;)
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MO'N dropping us in the shit 5 days before the start of the season.
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13) MON walking
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I've been thinking this today too. For me the biggest thing is us selling our most reliable and influential player twice in relatively quick succession. Maybe gb and jm weren't our best players but they made us tick and never had a bad game. Put downing and ireland in for them and the result isn't exactly unexpected.
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Bluntly, the money ran out. We spent a hell of a lot of money trying to improve on 6th with less and less progress. MON wanted more spending and when he didn't get it he surmised that this team had peaked and he couldn't stop the rot with limited funds. This isn't the first time we've gone from flying high to near relegation in a couple of seasons and its usually down to players leaving, other players getting past it, and replacements not being good enough. We've had all three in spades
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1) Mon's cnutery
2) Houllier's incompetence
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Our manager walking round Anfield with a hard-on.
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Selling Barry and Milner and not replacing them.
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the amount of stupid free kicks we seem to give away....
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1) Mon's cnutery
When did he become King of England, Denmark and Norway?
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The combined effect of the Moscow (a) and Stoke (h) games back to back had a seismic effect. After the Stoke game we lost our next 4 league games and didn't win again until early May - 8 games later - and only won one more after that. O'Neill was criticised for the first time since he joined and the players confidence was shot. It was a reality check - we aimed for the sun, got our wings burned and fell to earth.
If we'd made it into the Champs Lg that season we'd have been ahead of the game compared to Spurs (especially) and Man City, been able to attract better players and probably kept Barry and Milner. But we didn't, and the rest is history.
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The combined effect of the Moscow (a) and Stoke (h) games back to back had a seismic effect. After the Stoke game we lost our next 4 league games and didn't win again until early May - 8 games later - and only won one more after that. O'Neill was criticised for the first time since he joined and the players confidence was shot. It was a reality check - we aimed for the sun, got our wings burned and fell to earth.
If we'd made it into the Champs Lg that season we'd have been ahead of the game compared to Spurs (especially) and Man City, been able to attract better players and probably kept Barry and Milner. But we didn't, and the rest is history.
Yep, the Moscow game was the start alright.
I wonder where it will end?
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The claret sock's need a mention!
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Dunne quite clearly isn't good enough anymore
It's laughable how atrocious he has been this season, I genuinely can't remember the last game he played where he hasn't either very nearly or HAS cost us a goal
He's improved since he came back into the side, yet even then he was at fault for one of the Chelsea goals. Last night that tackle that give the free kick away for the goal was ridiculous
Bolton at home sticks in my mind as his worst game from memory, Blues away when he let Jerome through for the one on one and when he let Jerome Thomas through and nearly equalised at the death both stick in my mind as well.
If Ridgewell or Knight were still knocking about i'd be moaning to get them in the side which says it all
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Randy's given up.
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
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I think he's scratching his head , not given up entirely , some of us on here have given up
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
Saying he has given up suggests that his heart is no longer in the club, and that he would have little interest in the clubs current situation. To me that response would prove the opposite.
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i'm fed up with this MON blame culture - its complete bollocks. Yes, he walked out the week the season was starting but fucking hell, these people are proffesional football players. Instead of making KMac manager until Xmas we jumped the gun and got in that fucking clown Houllier who is taking us down. So thats when it went wrong....
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i'm fed up with this MON blame culture - its complete bollocks. Yes, he walked out the week the season was starting but fucking hell, these people are proffesional football players.
I could'nt agree with you more if i tried.
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Yes, he walked out the week the season was starting but fucking hell, these people are proffesional football players.
The logical conclusion to that argument is that they shouldn't need a manager at all.
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
Saying he has given up suggests that his heart is no longer in the club, and that he would have little interest in the clubs current situation. To me that response would prove the opposite.
In the last year he hasn't spent any proper money on new players, has sold our best player and appointed a cheap, shit manager. But he got all excited at Chelsea, so thats OK. Even my Bolton supporting inlaws cheered when we equalized, it was an exciting game.
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
Saying he has given up suggests that his heart is no longer in the club, and that he would have little interest in the clubs current situation. To me that response would prove the opposite.
In the last year he hasn't spent any proper money on new players, has sold our best player and appointed a cheap, shit manager.
Shit, quite possibly.
But apparently Houllier is anything but cheap.
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
Saying he has given up suggests that his heart is no longer in the club, and that he would have little interest in the clubs current situation. To me that response would prove the opposite.
In the last year he hasn't spent any proper money on new players, has sold our best player and appointed a cheap, shit manager. But he got all excited at Chelsea, so thats OK. Even my Bolton supporting inlaws cheered when we equalized, it was an exciting game.
And the lack of funds is in no way down to MON refusing to trim wage budget and effectivley pushing Milner out of the exit door, the Man City owners coming and vastly over inflating player prices and wages, and the global recession which even he and the club aren't going to be immune to?
For all the comments saying that we wanted to hear more from Lerner, these images of him speak louder than any PR-spun words ever could.
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
Saying he has given up suggests that his heart is no longer in the club, and that he would have little interest in the clubs current situation. To me that response would prove the opposite.
In the last year he hasn't spent any proper money on new players, has sold our best player and appointed a cheap, shit manager.
Shit, quite possibly.
But apparently Houllier is anything but cheap.
He's even dafter than I thougt then.
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The claret sock's need a mention!
Seconded.
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Bluntly, the money ran out. We spent a hell of a lot of money trying to improve on 6th with less and less progress. MON wanted more spending and when he didn't get it he surmised that this team had peaked and he couldn't stop the rot with limited funds. This isn't the first time we've gone from flying high to near relegation in a couple of seasons and its usually down to players leaving, other players getting past it, and replacements not being good enough. We've had all three in spades
Is it just the money ran out or did MON piss rather a lot of it away and make RL reluctant to give him more?
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Bluntly, the money ran out. We spent a hell of a lot of money trying to improve on 6th with less and less progress. MON wanted more spending and when he didn't get it he surmised that this team had peaked and he couldn't stop the rot with limited funds. This isn't the first time we've gone from flying high to near relegation in a couple of seasons and its usually down to players leaving, other players getting past it, and replacements not being good enough. We've had all three in spades
Is it just the money ran out or did MON piss rather a lot of it away and make RL reluctant to give him more?
well he did piss rather a lot away - its best not to think how much we've lost on people like MFH, Davies,and Sidwell. However, i am beginning to think that Lerner believed so totally in MON that he gambled on getting into the CL and when that didn't materialise he's been forced to close his wallet. I mean 40m losses are unsustainable for all but the richest owners
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Just read this article. With tongue in cheek it suggests how you would go about sabotaging a club and certainly answers the thread question in part ie Whats gone wrong?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1344710/The-Midlander-Much-Houllier-soap-opera-Villa-really-slide-trapdoor.html
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Martin O'Neill not only walking at a time to royally fuck us over, but taking all the first team management with him.
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MON leaving when he did ensured that, in terms of competing at the level we had previously done, this season was a write off. I think he did this when he did because his main concern was protecting the O'Neill brand.
That set us off on a downer. Then we had the faffing over appointing the new manager, and finally appointing one who has turned out to be something of a disaster.
The fact MON left when he did pretty much ensured that we wouldn't be a top six team this season, but there is also no way we should be in the bottom three, or anywhere near it.
Since he came here, GH has consistently put his foot in it and served up some pretty dire results. Currently, we seem to be getting worse, with the main worry being that, after a plucky performance like Chelsea, we should have built on it and really made something out of it, but we didn't, we turned in a performance so insipid that it made Spurs and Man City away look decent.
Now he needs all the support he can get, and I suspect that had he not alienated the fans so thoroughly, there might be a bit more of it around for him.
I have been firmly behind the board thus far, but having backed Houllier, they now need to back him with actual, proper money in the transfer market, because not to do so would be stupid beyond words.
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Don't often see an article so condemning, i think Randy has gone past the point of no return, we desperately need new players, good ones at that and any change in management will scuttle that. When Kev was made caretaker most of us thought we were a top six side looking for a top manager to move us up and Kev wouldn't be good enough and for me that still holds good. We have to get through this season then make the decision with planty of time in hand.
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MON leaving when he did ensured that, in terms of competing at the level we had previously done, this season was a write off. I think he did this when he did because his main concern was protecting the O'Neill brand.
That set us off on a downer. Then we had the faffing over appointing the new manager, and finally appointing one who has turned out to be something of a disaster.
The fact MON left when he did pretty much ensured that we wouldn't be a top six team this season, but there is also no way we should be in the bottom three, or anywhere near it.
Since he came here, GH has consistently put his foot in it and served up some pretty dire results. Currently, we seem to be getting worse, with the main worry being that, after a plucky performance like Chelsea, we should have built on it and really made something out of it, but we didn't, we turned in a performance so insipid that it made Spurs and Man City away look decent.
Now he needs all the support he can get, and I suspect that had he not alienated the fans so thoroughly, there might be a bit more of it around for him.
I have been firmly behind the board thus far, but having backed Houllier, they now need to back him with actual, proper money in the transfer market, because not to do so would be stupid beyond words.
Back him in the transfer market, what player with any ambition would join us now? he is done, he is not in a position to make a difference with transfers, the Sunderland result and reaction sealed that. We are left with this squad to get us out of this shit, it is now a simple decision about who leads them
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Back him in the transfer market, what player with any ambition would join us now? he is done, he is not in a position to make a difference with transfers, the Sunderland result and reaction sealed that. We are left with this squad to get us out of this shit, it is now a simple decision about who leads them
That's the point.
I personally think he's not going to get us to safety with this squad. The board disagree, and think he's deserving of carrying on in the job.
If that is the case, the way they feel, then they have got to back him, they can't leave him in limbo land, or they as much as Houllier will deserve the rap for a shit season.
We quite plainly need players in certain key positions. I would like to think that a large part of the reasoning behind them backing GH would be regarding transfers we have worked on for a while which are close to coming off. If that's the case, then we need to pull out the plugs and get the transfers through as soon as we possibly can, or we are in big, big shit.
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Quite an article that.
Randy, time to pull the trigger.
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He doesn't care about the fans. We are going down with this guy. Listen to that.
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Changing from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 when Heskey arrived. We stopped doing what was making us successful.
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Back him in the transfer market, what player with any ambition would join us now? he is done, he is not in a position to make a difference with transfers, the Sunderland result and reaction sealed that. We are left with this squad to get us out of this shit, it is now a simple decision about who leads them
That's the point.
I personally think he's not going to get us to safety with this squad. The board disagree, and think he's deserving of carrying on in the job.
If that is the case, the way they feel, then they have got to back him, they can't leave him in limbo land, or they as much as Houllier will deserve the rap for a shit season.
We quite plainly need players in certain key positions. I would like to think that a large part of the reasoning behind them backing GH would be regarding transfers we have worked on for a while which are close to coming off. If that's the case, then we need to pull out the plugs and get the transfers through as soon as we possibly can, or we are in big, big shit.
Players and thier agents watch TV read newspapers, our market is now extremely limited, players on thier last hurrah or un knowns with potential, neither of which you need for a relegation fight. The answer is not the January transfer window, it could have been but now it isnt. The issue now is who can make a difference in terms of getting the best out of the existing squad.
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If we're going to spend money, we need to buy improvements on the players we have. You're looking at probably £8m for a player in each of the departments, eg left back, central midfield, and more for a striker. Can anybody really see that sort of money being spent? This January will see loan players like Walker, maybe one or two French youngsters, and possibly an old has been if we're lucky. Nobody who's going to make a big difference in other words.
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If we're going to spend money, we need to buy improvements on the players we have. You're looking at probably £8m for a player in each of the departments, eg left back, central midfield, and more for a striker. Can anybody really see that sort of money being spent? This January will see loan players like Walker, maybe one or two French youngsters, and possibly an old has been if we're lucky. Nobody who's going to make a big difference in other words.
as i said above then
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well we're fucked then. we've needed a striker for donkeys years and one needs to arrive because with only gabby, heskey, a totally gone carew and a kid we're not equipped with a premiership strikeforce. to be fair you wouldn't need 15m to improve on carew 2010-11
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If we're going to spend money, we need to buy improvements on the players we have. You're looking at probably £8m for a player in each of the departments, eg left back, central midfield, and more for a striker. Can anybody really see that sort of money being spent? This January will see loan players like Walker, maybe one or two French youngsters, and possibly an old has been if we're lucky. Nobody who's going to make a big difference in other words.
They're saying we're close to signing Makoun for 7 or 8m. He'd be a massive upgrade on NRC, and central midfield is where we looked particularly shite last night.
That'd make a big difference, as a better player there would probably help us keep pressure off the frail defence as well.
I agree, we're in big trouble, and I agree, it is going to be hard to get away from it, but saying there's no point signing players , or we're just going to sign cheap dross, seems to me to be accepting it as inevitable that we're beyond redemption.
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Who are "they"? If we do buy him, then that's presumably whatever budget we have gone. We're not scoring any goals, is Randy going to go five whole years with out buying a decent striker after Carew?
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He doesn't care about the fans. We are going down with this guy. Listen to that.
I think he means that he doesn't blame the fans.
That said, he is still a liability.
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Who are "they"? If we do buy him, then that's presumably whatever budget we have gone. We're not scoring any goals, is Randy going to go five whole years with out buying a decent striker after Carew?
I was referring to the talk in the media.
So now you're saying that if we do strengthen one of the areas in which we are particularly weak, it'll mean we can't strengthen in another? Damned if they do, damned if they don't
As for not signing a decent striker since Carew, I thought you were saying that was MON's fault the last three years, now it seems it was Randy's fault all along.
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Who are "they"? If we do buy him, then that's presumably whatever budget we have gone. We're not scoring any goals, is Randy going to go five whole years with out buying a decent striker after Carew?
I was referring to the talk in the media.
So now you're saying that if we do strengthen one of the areas in which we are particularly weak, it'll mean we can't strengthen in another? Damned if they do, damned if they don't
As for not signing a decent striker since Carew, I thought you were saying that was MON's fault the last three years, now it seems it was Randy's fault all along.
Well buying Makoun would be better than not buying him, but if that sort of money IS available, then I'd prefer to see it spent on a striker.
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A lot of it is down to MON leaving us 5 days before the start of the season and appointing GH who is not improving us we do need to get a striker in i agree but who and from where is my question and how much have we got to spend in this window something needs to happen that's for sure.
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* Signing Heskey - I know he's done OK this season but for a team with serious designs on 4th in 2008/09 he was no kind of solution. Arsenal signed Arshavin.
*Moscow - no guarantees that we could have got a result out there but the festering resentment from senior pro's at being robbed of their chance to play in the latter stages of a European comp -the kind of things that you can look back on as highlights of your career- carried over into the rest of the season starting with...
*Stoke - 2-0 with 80+ minutes on the board and 8 points clear in early March. Game finishes 2-2. Walking out the ground that day everyone knew it was pretty much over.
*Missing out on 5th to Everton. Hard to argue we'd made genuine progress when a spend of £40+ million resulted in the same league placing as the season before.
*Selling Barry. A deal that made sense for a whole variety of reasons, but nevertheless it set a precedent. We would sell one of our best players to a rival if the price was right and our captain -as was- didn't believe in the project. For the first time questions started to be asked of MON, RL and co, and the direction we were taking. Previously everyone seemed to be on the same page.
*Big darts on the likes of Collins, Dunne, Warnock and Downing - most of those have been OK performers at one time or the other. But with Citeh on the rise and Tottingham getting their act together our purchases needed to be inspired if we wanted to improve on the efforts of 08/09. Hard to make the argument that any of those players were/are in that category.
*Phil Dowd bottling the big decisions in the LC final in Feb
*Lack of rotation in the second half of 09/10. Played a part in tired performances at home to the likes of Wolves and Sunderland and particularly exposed at...
*Chelsea 7-1
*Milner's (eventual) transfer, which was rumoured as far back as just after that Chelsea game.
*MON's cowardly walkout.
*The perception that developed around the same time that we were only interested in cost cutting, as evidenced by James Nursey's sterling efforts all summer to mention it at every available opportunity. Despite the fact that other clubs including most of our rivals were faced with similar challenges.
*Appointing GH
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As spot on as it's possible to be from young Kevin there.
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
Saying he has given up suggests that his heart is no longer in the club, and that he would have little interest in the clubs current situation. To me that response would prove the opposite.
In the last year he hasn't spent any proper money on new players, has sold our best player and appointed a cheap, shit manager.
Shit, quite possibly.
But apparently Houllier is anything but cheap.
He's even dafter than I thougt then.
He might be daft and worthy of critisism but that's very different from your ridiculous "given up" accusation.
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Jumping up and down like a toddler after too much Sunny D costs nowt. Appointing a decent manager and giving him the funds to do his job does. And he's shown no sign of doing the latter recently.
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Bluntly, the money ran out. We spent a hell of a lot of money trying to improve on 6th with less and less progress. MON wanted more spending and when he didn't get it he surmised that this team had peaked and he couldn't stop the rot with limited funds. This isn't the first time we've gone from flying high to near relegation in a couple of seasons and its usually down to players leaving, other players getting past it, and replacements not being good enough. We've had all three in spades
Good point
Very comparible to 1990/91
Finished runners up under GT MK1 in 1990, sold best player (Platt), got a foreign manager in and nearly went down
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Bluntly, the money ran out. We spent a hell of a lot of money trying to improve on 6th with less and less progress. MON wanted more spending and when he didn't get it he surmised that this team had peaked and he couldn't stop the rot with limited funds. This isn't the first time we've gone from flying high to near relegation in a couple of seasons and its usually down to players leaving, other players getting past it, and replacements not being good enough. We've had all three in spades
Monies run out has it ?
We'll see.
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Jumping up and down like a toddler after too much Sunny D costs nowt. Appointing a decent manager and giving him the funds to do his job does. And he's shown no sign of doing the latter recently.
I seem to remeber you agreeing that RL was right to withhold money from MON until he'd got the wage bill down. And this is only GH's first transfer window. If no money has been spent by February 1st then you'll have a point, until then, you don't.
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Bluntly, the money ran out. We spent a hell of a lot of money trying to improve on 6th with less and less progress. MON wanted more spending and when he didn't get it he surmised that this team had peaked and he couldn't stop the rot with limited funds. This isn't the first time we've gone from flying high to near relegation in a couple of seasons and its usually down to players leaving, other players getting past it, and replacements not being good enough. We've had all three in spades
Monies run out has it ?
We'll see.
Yeah, well people keep saying that but we're still waiting.
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Jumping up and down like a toddler after too much Sunny D costs nowt. Appointing a decent manager and giving him the funds to do his job does. And he's shown no sign of doing the latter recently.
I seem to remeber you agreeing that RL was right to withhold money from MON until he'd got the wage bill down. And this is only GH's first transfer window. If no money has been spent by February 1st then you'll have a point, until then, you don't.
Balls. We've needed a striker for years, and I said so during the last two transfer windows.
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If we're going to spend money, we need to buy improvements on the players we have. You're looking at probably £8m for a player in each of the departments, eg left back, central midfield, and more for a striker. Can anybody really see that sort of money being spent? This January will see loan players like Walker, maybe one or two French youngsters, and possibly an old has been if we're lucky. Nobody who's going to make a big difference in other words.
In January no it would be folly and as I'm continually reminded, we have a squad that finished 6th in 3 consecutive seasons, a squad the previous manager despite his huge spend didn't buy a decent striker for, in 4 seasons and one from which he sold our 2 best midfield players.
So "sack him now Houllier" must find these answers and be financed by Randy to do so.
More good thinking.
Seems more logical to me to strengthen wisely at a low cost and then subject to survival set about the real rebuild in the summer, hopefully having reduced the wage bill by unloading wasters like Carew, Sidwell, Beye, Davies and co, rather than players who could offer something, like Gardner, Cahill, Davis, who were on far smaller wages.
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Balls. We've needed a striker for years, and I said so during the last two transfer windows.
Spent plenty of money in the Summer 2009 transfer window. Might not have been on the players you wanted but it was spent. And again, I'm not denying mistakes were made.
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Balls. We've needed a striker for years, and I said so during the last two transfer windows.
Spent plenty of money in the Summer 2009 transfer window. Might not have been on the players you wanted but it was spent. And again, I'm not denying mistakes were made.
I never denied we spent money that summer. I'm talking about the 18 months since then.
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Seems more logical to me to strengthen wisely at a low cost and then subject to survival set about the real rebuild in the summer, hopefully having reduced the wage bill by unloading wasters like Carew, Sidwell, Beye, Davies and co, rather than players who could offer something, like Gardner, Cahill, Davis, who were on far smaller wages.
I've highlighted the weakness in your argument. Our manager is currently averaging 0.88 points per game, which is nailed on relegation form. Tinkering with the squad is going to see us relegated.
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I feel like we could buy a couple of £15m players in the window and still see no improvement. It isnt the personnel that is the issue. Its the management style and woeful tactics.
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If people want to kick the board over the appointment of Houllier, and the subsequent poor results, then that is fair enough.
But the accusations of the money running out or Lerner not caring are absolute hogwash. There was plenty of cash available for new players in the summer and there is plenty now I would suggest.
MON didn't have anyone in mind last January and his refusal to get rid of the players on big dough that he had no intention of playing was the reason that the breaks were put on him in the summer.
Relax about the money. Let's see what the window brings.
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what the fuck happened since 1897? we were double winners and apart from a brief flirtation in the early 1980 s we have been shit and i hate the players!
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Balls. We've needed a striker for years, and I said so during the last two transfer windows.
Spent plenty of money in the Summer 2009 transfer window. Might not have been on the players you wanted but it was spent. And again, I'm not denying mistakes were made.
I never denied we spent money that summer. I'm talking about the 18 months since then.
Since then we've had two transfer windows. There is often very little movement in the Winter window. Mistake? Possibly. But what strikers were available to be signed last Winter, anyone know?
We all have a fair idea of what happened last summer - didn't O'Neill want to sign Mcgeady and Keane? He was told no players until the wage bill came down. If he'd stayed, would he have signed players, including a striker? Since he tended to do his main business on August 31st we'll never know.
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Bluntly, the money ran out. We spent a hell of a lot of money trying to improve on 6th with less and less progress. MON wanted more spending and when he didn't get it he surmised that this team had peaked and he couldn't stop the rot with limited funds. This isn't the first time we've gone from flying high to near relegation in a couple of seasons and its usually down to players leaving, other players getting past it, and replacements not being good enough. We've had all three in spades
Good point
Very comparible to 1990/91
Finished runners up under GT MK1 in 1990, sold best player (Platt), got a foreign manager in and nearly went down
Except we didn't sell any players in the summer GT left and Venglos took over (tell a lie, maybe Dean Spink).
We only sold Platt the following season, after a season of struggle.
Same personnel as GT's second placed side, but Venglos nearly took us down? I'd say the manager of the time had to have a far degree of responsibility for that, as does the current one for our position at present.
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We did sign Gary Penrice
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Aye, in about March wasn't it?
and Ivo Stas a few months earlier.
Only problem was Stas got injured and never played and Penrice might as well have been injured.
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I didn't say he was any good. I seem to recall a home defeat against Luton as his debut.
In fact, I have a vivid recollection of a volleyed goal in front of the Holte by Kingsley Black.
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Changing from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 when Heskey arrived. We stopped doing what was making us successful.
agree 100%. Heskey was a disastrous signing. Barry supporting Gabby with Reo Coker and Petrov holding the midfield was our strongest team. The move to 442 exposed the lack of pace between Petrov and Barry as a partnership while Heskey was a disaster up front. Hard to know how MON didnt spot his mistake. That draw to Stoke was awful, we were cruising at 2-0 up. Gabby missed a few sitters but Glenn Whelan and someone else stung us at the death. I supported MON re the Moscow debacle. The only aim was the Champions League. Arsenal though it must be said finished like a train after Xmas with the signing of Arshavin being key.
I dont think Gareth barry leaving was as huge a blow as some made out. I think to be honest his best days were at the club. Moving Milner centrally eventually was a fine replacement. We never really threatened as much for the CL in 2009/10. We were always catching up. Agree playing the likes of Cuellar at right back at home to Wolves and Sunderland was rank poor from MON. Didnt he play the same 11 three times that week. Cant remember who we beat in the first game.
Unfortunately the board have to take serious criticism for allowing MON to spend so much money that 85% of turnover was going on wages. That was not sustainable. Until we get that down to a reasonable level I cant see much progress for the club considering the support is deserting in its droves at the moment.
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The home form has been poor for the last two and a half seasons - too many draws and not enough ideas on how to break down defences. We havent managed more than eight home wins in the last two seasons. Look at the amount of lower placed teams who have come away with a least a draw in that time. The final game of last season at home to Blackburn was one of the most depressing i've ever sat through. The away form has been whats kept us afloat and now that's deserted us.
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My boiler, but then again it has been a hard winter.
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Jumping up and down like a toddler after too much Sunny D costs nowt. Appointing a decent manager and giving him the funds to do his job does. And he's shown no sign of doing the latter recently.
I seem to remeber you agreeing that RL was right to withhold money from MON until he'd got the wage bill down. And this is only GH's first transfer window. If no money has been spent by February 1st then you'll have a point, until then, you don't.
Balls. We've needed a striker for years, and I said so during the last two transfer windows.
100& agree, Carew's not done it this year & Heskey & Agbonlahor aren't prolific enough in front of goal. We can buy all the midfielders going but if our strikers miss all the chances then were going to struggle
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Randy's given up.
I think his reaction to the equaliser on Sunday begs to differ.
And that proved what exactly?
Saying he has given up suggests that his heart is no longer in the club, and that he would have little interest in the clubs current situation. To me that response would prove the opposite.
To me that suggested he had Clarke to score in injury time at 22-1 with Victor Chandler.
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We did sign Gary Penrice
A panic sale or we would have had to pay £500,000 in 'corporation tax'
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If O'Neill only managed to buy 1 striker in 4 years (and 9 transfer windows) how do you expect Houllier to buy one in none?
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We've needed a striker for years.
We need a goal-scorer and always have done it seems for the last 40 years. Someone who just scores goals like it's the easiest thing in the world. We've had Little, Gray, Shaw and Withe and after that who?
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Yorke
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Yorke
Shit. I've just been Yorked. Now I know how the Aussies feel.
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ah goal scorers they are as rare as rocking horse shit, something you can not train or develop, you either have it or you dont 99% of players dont and in the modern age they seem to be getting even more rare, so many players have all the attributes to play up front except the one that really matters, scoring (Gabby Heskey vassell) there is a real derth of goal scorers
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If O'Neill only managed to buy 1 striker in 4 years (and 9 transfer windows) how do you expect Houllier to buy one in none?
Two, to be fair.
One of whom was utterly shit, the other who was given to us by, errr, whatsisface.
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If O'Neill only managed to buy 1 striker in 4 years (and 9 transfer windows) how do you expect Houllier to buy one in none?
Two, to be fair.
One of whom was utterly shit, the other who was given to us by, errr, whatsisface.
Three.
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The summer of 2010, The Club became inactive in the transfer market, waited for the WC to end before resolving the Milner situation and by the time the squad turned up for training nothing had happened, then the focus was on Milner, the result was we start the season with the same squad, sell milner get Ireland, MOn walks. It seems that RL became an absentee Landlord during the summer. The dice by then had been cast
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Carew, Heskey & Harewood. Do we count Maloney? Sutton? Probably not.
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The summer of 2010, The Club became inactive in the transfer market, waited for the WC to end before resolving the Milner situation and by the time the squad turned up for training nothing had happened, then the focus was on Milner, the result was we start the season with the same squad, sell milner get Ireland, MOn walks. It seems that RL became an absentee Landlord during the summer. The dice by then had been cast
Replace Ashley Young for Milner this summer and you may have a similar situation.
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All Randy has to do to shut doubters (like me) up is buy some players. If he isn't going to sack Houllier, he needs to back him as The General promised he would.
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All Randy has to do to shut doubters (like me) up is buy some players. If he isn't going to sack Houllier, he needs to back him as The General promised he would.
If Wayne bridge joins i will see that as a massive positive sign. Beat other clubs to his signature, pay his wage etc. Good left back and no risk as on loan.
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Signing Wayne Bridge on 90K a week would be mental. There's spending money, then there's putting it on a bonfire, dousing it in petrol and setting fire to it.
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All Randy has to do to shut doubters (like me) up is buy some players. If he isn't going to sack Houllier, he needs to back him as The General promised he would.
The problem is that we are not in a position to attract the type of players that will make a big difference, we are in the market for unproven potential or players on thier last hurah because established or accomplished players will not join us in the state we are now
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Well in that case we might as well get used to life in the Championship because Houllier isn't going to keep us up with the players he has.
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Well in that case we might as well get used to life in the Championship because Houllier isn't going to keep us up with the players he has.
I think that there is more than enough in the Squad to get out the relegation zone, my problem is can GH get enough out of the squad?