Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: barrysleftfoot on January 06, 2011, 03:36:15 PM

Title: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: barrysleftfoot on January 06, 2011, 03:36:15 PM


   Bear with me.

   It struck me last night that these 2 in partic, have led us down the road of false enthusiasm.Neither are going to be as good as I, you, every one hoped/Believed.

  AYoungs total failure to understand, and appreciate whats going on around him, and failure to pick out a pass, or the right pass, or evenmake the right choice of a shot or a pass, means he can't play in the free role behind a lone striker.His lack of goal scoring, and getting in the right positions, whilst playing in this role also means he can't play there.How many goals this year in open play?

  Put him on the wing, is he now better than he was 2 yrs ago.Can he pick a cross,or  pick a player out?Has he got as good a cross as Albrighton....who can cross, and can pick a player out.Time to stop relying on him and trying to appease him by playing him where he wants to, and not where benefits the team?For me yes.


  Gabby.......probably more of a disappointment to me........does he care?What are his attributes apart from pace?
  Went up front last night after Heskey was sent off, and failed to hold the ball up once.Never had an attempt all night, lacks movement, lacks a touch, has stagnated?Has been found out?More worryingly does'nt seem to want to develop as a player.


  For me last night, what summed up Villa for me, and what summed up our problems, and also vindicated GHs comments about team glory before personal glory, was when it was still 0-0, Ashley broke foward with Heskey and Gabby, heskey made a good run to the near post, was unmarked, and Ash shot straight at the goalie.Not good enough, too selfish, we deserve better.

  Hope i'm wrong, but i fear these 2 are never going to be as good as i hoped bthey would be.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: dutchvilla on January 06, 2011, 03:41:35 PM
I agree that they're not playing well and that A Young can be very frustrating, but over the last 3-4 years, they are the players that other teams have been afraid of. Villa are at their best when these two are working well together. The challenge is for GH to get them to rediscover their own form and the almost telepathic relationship they seem to have had at times.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: adam#1 on January 06, 2011, 03:42:35 PM
Gabby was excellent at holding up the ball last season after he bulked up. This season Houllier has told him to lose the muscles, and play as a left winger. He's also had a season of injuries and illness.

Young - yes I do wonder whats going on. The press have intimated that he's playing in the hole at his own request, but he does seem to be a better player form the wings to be honest. He had a poor game last night, but has generally played well this season. I think his crossing is usually good.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: eastie on January 06, 2011, 03:43:25 PM
Gabby will never be a prolific goalscorer and his finishing needs to improve hugely- as for ash , much better on the wing but we have had the best out of him 2 yrs ago- I would not begrudge him the move he seems to want!

Albrighton may turn out to be the best of the lot - hopefully!
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: villasjf on January 06, 2011, 03:44:17 PM
I think Ash shoud have been right wing and Gabby down the middle with Downing on the left, its down to the manager and coaches i am afraid.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: supertom on January 06, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
Sadly agree.

In Ash's case, I think he needs a move now. At which point he'll kick on to fulfill his promise, or he'll be one of those nearly but not quite players. IMO he's been on a steady decline since MON's world class tag.

As for Gabby I think it's a case of a limited player that MON got the absolute best out of and a bit more. Pace is still his best attribute, but he's chipped away a few yards to add beef.

I'd move on Ash while we can get money. Gabby is still useful, but I think he may become an impact player, unless we find a manager who's style is more matched to Gabby's game, and who can get that extra 10% out of him.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: PaulTheVillan on January 06, 2011, 03:49:09 PM
I'd keep Gabby, I don't think he'll be a bad apple. He's useful, but he could be a better player if he improved his off the ball movement & finishing.
If we get a £20m bid for Young, I'm afraid I hope we sell him.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 03:54:31 PM
Gabby is the last person we should be pointing fingers at. What's he supposed to do when being played on the left wing?

The title of this thread is also a blatant attempt at attention seeking.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: gti2win on January 06, 2011, 03:55:02 PM
everyday of the week ash is a more important player for us than gabby in my opinion, gabby has nothing to his game apart from pace, his footballing brain is very poor, no awareness of whats around him, if hes got time to think when heading in on goal you know more often than not hes gonna cock it up, even simple passing seems to be an issue for him, although that could be said for a few players at the moment! On the plus side he is villa through and through.

Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares, and i wouldnt blame him if he was to move on, but i would want to see him sold, as for gabby i think he needs to move, life is too comfortable here for him, he will never provide the goals we need to move on unfortunately.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 03:57:32 PM
everyday of the week ash is a more important player for us than gabby in my opinion, gabby has nothing to his game apart from pace, his footballing brain is very poor, no awareness of whats around him, if hes got time to think when heading in on goal you know more often than not hes gonna cock it up, even simple passing seems to be an issue for him, although that could be said for a few players at the moment! On the plus side he is villa through and through.

Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares, and i wouldnt blame him if he was to move on, but i would want to see him sold, as for gabby i think he needs to move, life is too comfortable here for him, he will never provide the goals we need to move on unfortunately.

I've never read a post so wrong.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Merv on January 06, 2011, 04:04:27 PM
I like both players but we certainly haven't got the best out of either of them this season. Young's not bad in this floating role, but I prefer him wide and that's where he should be - either left or right depending on whether we go with Albrighton or Downing in the side. TBH, I'm not sure he's going to be as good as I thought he was a couple of years back: doesn't look the part at international level and can't see him making it at Man U or Arsenal... right now Spurs and City have better attacking options too. But he's still good enough to be one of our key, if not the key, player. One thing you can never accuse him of is lack of effort. One of the hardest-working forward players in the league.

Gabby? He needs to be playing centre-forward. That's it. Not left wing. He's not huge but he can hold the ball up. He needs to be in and around the box, end of. I'm hoping he'll get a few games there now with Emile out.

Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: gti2win on January 06, 2011, 04:08:58 PM
everyday of the week ash is a more important player for us than gabby in my opinion, gabby has nothing to his game apart from pace, his footballing brain is very poor, no awareness of whats around him, if hes got time to think when heading in on goal you know more often than not hes gonna cock it up, even simple passing seems to be an issue for him, although that could be said for a few players at the moment! On the plus side he is villa through and through.

Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares, and i wouldnt blame him if he was to move on, but i would want to see him sold, as for gabby i think he needs to move, life is too comfortable here for him, he will never provide the goals we need to move on unfortunately.

I've never read a post so wrong.

Its my opinion, and i can assure you i am not alone with it, but thanks for the reply
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: sfx412 on January 06, 2011, 04:15:17 PM
Gabby will never be a prolific goalscorer and his finishing needs to improve hugely- as for ash , much better on the wing but we have had the best out of him 2 yrs ago- I would not begrudge him the move he seems to want!

Albrighton may turn out to be the best of the lot - hopefully!

Strange that Gabby has led our goalscoring charts for most of the seasons he's been in the first team, then
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: barrysleftfoot on January 06, 2011, 04:22:01 PM


  I can assure you its not attention seeking olney.......its frustration and concearn.


  Like everybody on here, i have my views and beliefs on football.2 years ago i was convinced that Gabby was developing nicely, and would be Englands No 9 at the 2010WC, and that Ashley would develop into the a wonderful attacking wide player, like Nasri.

  What happened?

  Gabby.........has'nt developed in the last 12 months, yes he played wide last night, but Bardsley was marking him.....BARDSLEY.Never got past him once either with or without the ball.Is obsessed with his bulk, his manager tells him to lose it, he says he'll think about it.Does'nt find enough space in and around the penalty area, does'nt know how to utilise his pace.What worries me about Gabby is that he gives me the impression he no longer takes advice, and consequently won't develop to the player he could become.

  Ashley works hard, puts plenty of effort in, tries hard, is in some ways a good team player, but wheres the quality?Has'nt got as good a cross as Albrighton, has'nt got as good a shot as say Downing.He should be OUR Nasri/Arshavin/VDV, is he any where near that quality ......no.He is now 25/26, is he going to improve, get more goals, create more, is he going to be as good a player as we all thought he was going to be 2/3 years ago.......NO.

  Ash was no worse than Downing, or NRC, or Petrov, ........but i expect more from Gabby and Ashley, and for us to get out of this situation have got to perform, now neither did last night, and to be honest have been very sporadic all season.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: adam#1 on January 06, 2011, 04:23:25 PM
Gabby will never be a prolific goalscorer and his finishing needs to improve hugely- as for ash , much better on the wing but we have had the best out of him 2 yrs ago- I would not begrudge him the move he seems to want!

Albrighton may turn out to be the best of the lot - hopefully!

Strange that Gabby has led our goalscoring charts for most of the seasons he's been in the first team, then

Agreed. I think he's lost his way this season through injury illness and poor management.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 04:23:38 PM
everyday of the week ash is a more important player for us than gabby in my opinion, gabby has nothing to his game apart from pace, his footballing brain is very poor, no awareness of whats around him, if hes got time to think when heading in on goal you know more often than not hes gonna cock it up, even simple passing seems to be an issue for him, although that could be said for a few players at the moment! On the plus side he is villa through and through.

Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares, and i wouldnt blame him if he was to move on, but i would want to see him sold, as for gabby i think he needs to move, life is too comfortable here for him, he will never provide the goals we need to move on unfortunately.

I've never read a post so wrong.

Its my opinion, and i can assure you i am not alone with it, but thanks for the reply

Well that's what a message board is for, opinions. I happen to think yours is wrong, very wrong.

Goals

2009/10 - 16
2008/09 - 12
2007/08 - 11
2006/07 - 10

Pretty good for someone with "just pace". Getting better and better it seems.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: barrysleftfoot on January 06, 2011, 04:30:38 PM


   Goals this year?.........when we need them?

   He has everything, after watching Villa for the last 40 yrs, i've seen all the potentially great local players coming through...LMoore, SMoore, Vassell, and all the others........Gabby was the only one i thought could be top class.

  I hope you are right olney, only i see things in Gabby this year that make me question that.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 04:35:21 PM


   Goals this year?.........when we need them?

   He has everything, after watching Villa for the last 40 yrs, i've seen all the potentially great local players coming through...LMoore, SMoore, Vassell, and all the others........Gabby was the only one i thought could be top class.

  I hope you are right olney, only i see things in Gabby this year that make me question that.

He's been injured for most of this season and played on the left wing for the last two games. If fit and given a run of games he'll score goals. He's proven it time and time again.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Rigadon on January 06, 2011, 04:59:31 PM
Gabby will come good again.  He'll never be absolute top drawer though.  He has more to his game than just pace but it wouldn't be enough to keep him in our team if he lost a yard.  That extra split second his pace gives him definitely helps  him to pick some nice crosses and passes at times.  He's also instinctive in front of goal - ask him to think and he'll miss 4 out of 5 but first time on the turn and he'll often find the net.

Young is playing in the wrong position. Along with Albrighton he is still our most watchable player but I don't see him being played in the hole anywhere other than at VIlla.  Do you think Spurs would?  Man Utd?  No chance.  He's a really really good winger on his day and is being wasted in the middle. 
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Blackcountry Villa on January 06, 2011, 05:02:03 PM
They didn't fool me, i've always said Young is one of the most overrated players i've seen and Agbonlahor has the technical ability of a baby elephant and no football brain.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: MoetVillan on January 06, 2011, 05:03:24 PM
Gabby and Ash frauds?  Not in my opinion.  Gabby plays his heart out and wants to succeed.  A bad injury has really held him back.  Poor game last night, but its more of a one of for him, and hes getting back to form.  Birmingham fear him which is worth something.  Ash... frustrating at times, but more because he wants to be involved in everything.  He wants to succeed.  Super player, and an attitude that wants to score and be on the winning side. 
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 05:05:12 PM
They didn't fool me, i've always said Young is one of the most overrated players i've seen and Agbonlahor has the technical ability of a baby elephant and no football brain.

Do you have ADHD?
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Fuse on January 06, 2011, 05:07:11 PM
Gabby is the last person we should be pointing fingers at. What's he supposed to do when being played on the left wing?

The title of this thread is also a blatant attempt at attention seeking.

I tell you what he is supposed to do, he is supposed to try, to put 100% effort into it rather than sulking because he isn't playing where he thinks he should. Irresepctive of whether he is right or wrong, the elast that we should expect of him is to put some effort in.

For a so-called Villa fan and home-grown player, he was a fucking disgrace last night as he sulked and didn;t give  a fuck. Only bothered his arse for the last 10 mins. He's hardly bothered his arse all season.

And I am one of his biggest fans but I won;t excuse players who because they disagree with the manager decide to sulk. Him adn half a dozen others were a disgrace last night.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: KrisHacking on January 06, 2011, 05:09:03 PM
Gabby has always been useless in my opinion. Being fast isnt enough.  Be good if he could run fast with the ball under control and provide some sort of end product instead of falling over his own feet anywhere near the 18 yard box...

As for Young very frustrating, and I would take 18-20 Million for him 2moro..

Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 05:09:23 PM
He was poor last night, but it had nothing to do with a lack of effort, it was to do with him playing on the left wing and  him not having a clue how to play on the left wing.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 05:10:16 PM
Gabby has always been useless in my opinion. Being fast isnt enough.  Be good if he could run fast with the ball under control and provide some sort of end product instead of falling over his own feet anywhere near the 18 yard box...

As for Young very frustrating, and I would take 18-20 Million for him 2moro..



Quote
Goals

2009/10 - 16
2008/09 - 12
2007/08 - 11
2006/07 - 10

Pretty good for someone with "just pace". Getting better and better it seems.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Blackcountry Villa on January 06, 2011, 05:13:01 PM
But for someone who was leading our line and playing pretty much every minute of every game those stats aren't all that, i'd expect a good midfielder to score that many per season.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Fuse on January 06, 2011, 05:15:46 PM
He was poor last night, but it had nothing to do with a lack of effort, it was to do with him playing on the left wing and  him not having a clue how to play on the left wing.

Rubbish. I saw him play there a number of times under DOL and one thing he did was run. I will excuse most things but don't make excuses for the fact he didn;t put himself about. He made Bardsley look like Cafu!

Why did he play so much better at Stamford Bridge on SUnday where he was dangerous all game until injured yet couldn;t play the same position last night? DId he forget how to play in the 3 days between?
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: richard moore on January 06, 2011, 05:24:26 PM
As I thought they would both turn out to be decent, good Premier League players and they have, they are therefore not 'frauds' in my book. The problem as ever is that we, as seems to be fashion everywhere these days, start describing these players as 'awesome', 'amazing' and 'fantastic' after just a few games where they played well...
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: jembob on January 06, 2011, 05:25:10 PM
Gabby will never be a prolific goalscorer and his finishing needs to improve hugely- as for ash , much better on the wing but we have had the best out of him 2 yrs ago- I would not begrudge him the move he seems to want!

Albrighton may turn out to be the best of the lot - hopefully!

Strange that Gabby has led our goalscoring charts for most of the seasons he's been in the first team, then

Agreed. I think he's lost his way this season through injury illness and poor management.

I couldn't understand what he was supposed to be doing last night against Sunderland and he clearly didn't either. In that formation against Chelsea he worked hard to help out the defence and did very well. Playing him as a left winger/midfielder is so clearly wrong and I feel that much of this criticism is misplaced. We all know that our most successful spells in recent years have come when we played 4-5-1 with Gabby up front and that's what he's good at.

The clear lack of confidence in the team is clear for all to see and Gabby's performance last night just shows what happens when players don't believe or understand in what they should be doing.

Ash on the other hand seems to think that it's his responsibility to make up for everybody else's shortcoming by running around like a fool. I admire his efforts but it must be massively frustrating for him and I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave in this transfer window. Much as I like both of them, neither are the sorts of players to develop a team around while Albrighton seems a much better bet to be at the centre of our future plans.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Olneythelonely on January 06, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
He was poor last night, but it had nothing to do with a lack of effort, it was to do with him playing on the left wing and  him not having a clue how to play on the left wing.

Rubbish. I saw him play there a number of times under DOL and one thing he did was run. I will excuse most things but don't make excuses for the fact he didn;t put himself about. He made Bardsley look like Cafu!

Why did he play so much better at Stamford Bridge on SUnday where he was dangerous all game until injured yet couldn;t play the same position last night? DId he forget how to play in the 3 days between?

Are you sure you didn't see him play on the right wing?

No he didn't forget how to play, he just played poorly last night and played better against Chelsea. It happens, people have good and bad games. He was no worse abd put in no less effort than the other 9 players (excluding Heskey) and a lot of them were in their correct positions.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: PaulTheVillan on January 06, 2011, 05:31:05 PM
I think Wellbeck has played on the left a few times for Man Utd & Sunderland, he seems to play well there and through the middle.

Sign him up :D
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: oldtimernow on January 06, 2011, 06:06:44 PM
Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares,

Cares so much that he has to take the free kicks just outside our penalty area instead of being near the other penalty area looking to score......sorry he flatters to deceive for me
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: timeoutbigbar on January 06, 2011, 06:45:30 PM
It showed against Spurs and Citeh that we miss Young's creativity when he isn't there.  Regardless of form and the fact he is inconsistent, he remains one of the few players we have who can create a goal out of nothing.  I've said before that the reason he is so frustrating is because he is prepared to try something different, which won't always work, but atleast he's not playing sideways football.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: enigma on January 06, 2011, 06:48:34 PM

That thread title annoys me. They may not ultimately live up to the lofty expectations of some fans but that doesn't make them frauds. There's nothing fraudulent about not being world class.

I'm with Olney, it just smacks of wanting an eye catching title to get people to click on it.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: enigma on January 06, 2011, 06:50:53 PM
Ash for me works hard every game, always looks like he cares,

Cares so much that he has to take the free kicks just outside our penalty area instead of being near the other penalty area looking to score......sorry he flatters to deceive for me

Tell me how taking those free kicks mean he doesn't give a damn? If anything he needs to be told by the manager to leave those to Petrov but it's a bit of a leap to assume that because he's taking free kicks in our half it must mean he doesn't give a shit.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: barrysleftfoot on January 06, 2011, 06:57:01 PM


   "eye-catching title" to get "people to click on it"?.......not quite sure why you think i would want to do that.

  Take your point though, like a lot of threads after a defeat it was probably posted in haste, and possibly frauds indicates the wrong inference, still have the same opinions of them though.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: villa1 on January 06, 2011, 06:57:35 PM
He was poor last night, but it had nothing to do with a lack of effort, it was to do with him playing on the left wing and  him not having a clue how to play on the left wing.

I'd say it was actually a little bit of both.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: enigma on January 06, 2011, 06:58:52 PM


   "eye-catching title" to get "people to click on it"?.......not quite sure why you think i would want to do that.

  Take your point though, like a lot of threads after a defeat it was probably posted in haste, and possibly frauds indicates the wrong inference, still have the same opinions of them though.

I actually agree up to a point that they probably won't become as good as we hoped, not with us anyway but that's hardly fraudulent on their part.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 06, 2011, 07:31:58 PM
As I thought they would both turn out to be decent, good Premier League players and they have, they are therefore not 'frauds' in my book. The problem as ever is that we, as seems to be fashion everywhere these days, start describing these players as 'awesome', 'amazing' and 'fantastic' after just a few games where they played well...
In Gabby's defence, he's hardly going to be a prolific goalscorer if he gets next to no decent service. Play to his strengths and he'll deliver.

As for Ashley, I partly agree with Jembob, for all his talent, I just wish he would keep it simple and keep the attack flowing, rather than deciding to do his own thing. The problem is, as Richard stated above, he's been built up to be this wonderful, world class, amazing and fantastic player so he feels he has to do something special everytime he gets the ball. As much as I admire his workrate, I often get the feeling he's unintentionally playing for himself.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: gti2win on January 06, 2011, 07:40:28 PM
Olney, you have made on clear on some of your other posts that you think gabby is our most important and probably best player, and to quote you i think your are wrong, very wrong ;)

Oldtimer, maybe you could explain how ash taking those free kicks means he doesnt care ?


Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: ozzjim on January 06, 2011, 07:49:15 PM
I'd keep Gabby, I don't think he'll be a bad apple. He's useful, but he could be a better player if he improved his off the ball movement & finishing.
If we get a £20m bid for Young, I'm afraid I hope we sell him.

Pretty much the same. Young is at his best on the left wing but seems to have decided he wants to play up front, where he is too lightweight to play as far forward as he seems to want to, has no natural movement, can't head and loses the ball a lot!!

Gabby needs to lose a little bulk and get fully fit. The pace is not there at the moment, but his hold up play is worse than last year significantly. Stick with him, sign some competition.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: myf on January 06, 2011, 08:16:21 PM
It showed against Spurs and Citeh that we miss Young's creativity when he isn't there.  Regardless of form and the fact he is inconsistent, he remains one of the few players we have who can create a goal out of nothing.  I've said before that the reason he is so frustrating is because he is prepared to try something different, which won't always work, but atleast he's not playing sideways football.

Here here.  He would be badly missed like Milner. 

I think many of the players who wanted to give Houllier a chance have now lost faith in him.  Thats where the problem lies.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: TheSandman on January 06, 2011, 08:28:59 PM
For me both are suffering from being played in positions that are not suited to them. Ash should play at left wing and Gabby up front. The free role is not a good place for him and his non-scoring. It blunts us and him as a player and Gabby wide left? Do me a fucking favour.

Gabby (along with Heskey) suffered badly from our lack of creativity. Two central midfielders that lack talent and the ability to play or create, a Downing and a Young who wasted so many opportunities through stupidity. He also faces the issues of being played in a position he is not suited to and for a manager I don't think rates him that much (Heskey is obviously our first choice forward and we are looking at bringing others in... What would you think if you were Gabby?). That is before you get on to the injuries and not quite being in the groove. I like Gabby, he is and will be a more than solid PL player but he is not going to be absolutely top class.

As for Ash. He is not anything like as good as some think. He is no genius or world class player but he is a decent enough winger who is waaaaaaaaaay better than Lennon or SWP. He is not making as many right decisions as he used to or as exciting a player as two, three years ago and I cannot explain it. I don't know whether it's him, the opposition or the management. Still a good player who always tries hard mind. You cannot fault him on that. He and Gabby are certainly no Oscar Arce.

Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Nastylee on January 06, 2011, 08:37:02 PM
I believe playing to their strengths would be a start. Gabby needs space to run into to take advantage of his pace. Playing him left wing means he is normally marked, often by two players, and therefore has little room to exploit. As for Young, he's best in the last third. Unfortunately, he is dropping deeper with each game to try and influence games. I don't think he's selfish, I believe he is trying too hard to take responsibility and make something positive happen. However, with things not coming off I feel it's being misinterpreted by some fans.

Anyway, that's my take and this could be easily solved if GH would tinker and put things back to how they were. It's proven to work and we need to go back to basics at the moment and regain some confidence. Young can find space on the wing and cross and Gabby has proved he will get a dozen or so goal, often in gluts and we need a glut now. How different things would be if he could bag 5 or 6 goals in the next 8 games.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Blackcountry Villa on January 06, 2011, 08:37:12 PM
It showed against Spurs and Citeh that we miss Young's creativity when he isn't there. 
So what about all the other games he has played in? We've only won 5 games in the league so where has his creativity been in all the other games? Lets face it he attempts 30 crosses a game and takes every corner and every free kick, anyone doing that would get a fair few assists. He's massively overrated, his crossing is shit, he's a whinger, he's a cheat. He only seems good because our squad is so piss poor, same with Gabby, if we had a good striker he wouldn't get a look in.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: hawkeye on January 06, 2011, 08:38:10 PM
i dont think Young is creative where he is playing, busy yes. He wants to get involved, demands the ball and because of that we miss him when he dosent play but he is not a number10
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Nastylee on January 06, 2011, 08:40:40 PM
I believe playing to their strengths would be a start. Gabby needs space to run into to take advantage of his pace. Playing him left wing means he is normally marked, often by two players, and therefore has little room to exploit. As for Young, he's best in the last third. Unfortunately, he is dropping deeper with each game to try and influence games. I don't think he's selfish, I believe he is trying too hard to take responsibility and make something positive happen. However, with things not coming off I feel it's being misinterpreted by some fans.

Anyway, that's my take and this could be easily solved if GH would tinker and put things back to how they were. It's proven to work and we need to go back to basics at the moment and regain some confidence. Young can find space on the wing and cross and Gabby has proved he will get a dozen or so goal, often in gluts and we need a glut now. How different things would be if he could bag 5 or 6 goals in the next 8 games.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: timeoutbigbar on January 06, 2011, 10:03:02 PM
It showed against Spurs and Citeh that we miss Young's creativity when he isn't there. 
So what about all the other games he has played in? We've only won 5 games in the league so where has his creativity been in all the other games? Lets face it he attempts 30 crosses a game and takes every corner and every free kick, anyone doing that would get a fair few assists. He's massively overrated, his crossing is shit, he's a whinger, he's a cheat. He only seems good because our squad is so piss poor, same with Gabby, if we had a good striker he wouldn't get a look in.

I never said he was world class, just that as far as our current squad goes, he's as good as we can get and potentially better.  There aren't that many footballers about these days who are prepared to take people on or attempt a killer pass, and without him we would be deep in the brown stuff.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: ktvillan on January 06, 2011, 10:12:46 PM
Gabby is a good instinctive finisher, works hard and looks like he cares.  On the downside he struggles when he has time to think, and his movement off the ball is very poor for a top class striker.  How often do you see him make a run along the defensive the line, building up speed and inviting the through ball? I can't think of many occasions, he's far too static.  Delfounso has way more intelligent movement than Gabby will ever have but I wonder if he wants it enough.

I've never really bought into the Ashley Young thing.  He has his games where he is devastating but for me they are all too rare.   His delivery is inconsistent at best and his decision making is appalling - passing when he should shoot, shooting when some one else is wide open, and more often than not opting to draw the foul (or dive) when there are much better options on.  He wastes so much good possession  it's infuriating.  Both Albrighton and Downing are better and more consistent crossers, and they can and do both go past defenders, rather than opting to fall over.  Young would be fantastic if someone could persuade him to try and stay on his feet and teach him when to cross, shoot or pass.

Somewhat peversely I do think we miss them when they are out because the opposition seem a bit scared of them, probably based more on reputation than substance, and because alternatives like Delfouneso and Albrighton are still raw and lacking experience.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: ROBBO on January 06, 2011, 10:27:18 PM
I think you've all missed the point. When did they both play well at the same time? it was when we played the opposition on the break, plenty of room for them both to move around in and gabby to run on to the ball.
AY is a good player on the wing if he wasn't teams wouldn't bother to double up on him but i think at times he tries to make up for the deficiances of his teammates and runs into trouble. They both suffer for us not having a decent midfield, no creativity to feed them and they have to work overtime to track back. Gabby we might not miss Ash Young we certainly would he is still the best player Villa have got.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: hawkeye on January 06, 2011, 10:36:40 PM
i think Young has been given enough chances to show that he can play in a central role, it isnt working. So stop it.
We have 3 wingers and they should be competing for 2 positions. So why play Gabby there? Only one of them is comfortable on the Right Albrighton. Part of the reason we are in this mess is because GH seems incapable of setting the team up.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: hawkeye on January 06, 2011, 10:43:36 PM
look at it from the opositions point of view, if you have Young on the left who is capable of beating a man, Albrighton on the right that can do the same and Gabbys pace through the middle, you have some thing to fear.
as opposed to Downing on the right, Young through the middle and Gabby isolated out on the left, so now you have your attack playing out of position. I know which set up i would want to play.
This stuff is not fkin ricket science
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: timeoutbigbar on January 06, 2011, 11:13:11 PM
look at it from the opositions point of view, if you have Young on the left who is capable of beating a man, Albrighton on the right that can do the same and Gabbys pace through the middle, you have some thing to fear.
as opposed to Downing on the right, Young through the middle and Gabby isolated out on the left, so now you have your attack playing out of position. I know which set up i would want to play.
This stuff is not fkin ricket science

Spot on.
Title: Re: Gabby and Ash.........Frauds?
Post by: Surrey Villain on January 07, 2011, 12:07:57 AM
look at it from the opositions point of view, if you have Young on the left who is capable of beating a man, Albrighton on the right that can do the same and Gabbys pace through the middle, you have some thing to fear.
as opposed to Downing on the right, Young through the middle and Gabby isolated out on the left, so now you have your attack playing out of position. I know which set up i would want to play.
This stuff is not fkin ricket science

Spot on.

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