Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Linus on December 29, 2010, 02:02:49 PM
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Genuinely interested - can anyone explain to me how it's Richard Dunne's fault we're in the shit? I mean, other than him being out of form? Some on here talk of him as a "problem". Ditto Carew. Ireland I can kind of understand, but he's also been treated a little shabbily by M. Houllier. Interested to hear why these players are to blame...
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If Dunne, Carew and Ireland had performed to the standard that all have shown themselves capable of in the past then we'd be a better side.
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Plus the senior players being disruptive sets the tone for the younger players and reduces the experience we are able to field.
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I thought this was going to be a Stephen Warnock thread, I've no idea why Richard Dunne is not playing as well as he did last year, but I don't think the reason is because Houllier has treated him badly, he was lucky to stay in the team as long as he did.
The fall out only seems to have occurred after he got dropped, which suggests Dunne thinks he was worth his place in the team, which based on his performances is laughable, Carew is slightly different as he hasn't seemed bothered either way for some time.
I don't mind Houllier upsetting players, he just needs to get them performing to the level we know they are capable of, which is something he doesn't look like he knows how to.
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Carew has just been totally unreliable. Going off to Norway, coming back and declaring himself unfit because he was caught in the snow...These three senior pros - in an ideal world - should be leading, firing up the team and giving their best for the club and the fans. All season Dunne has been carrying too much weight...The lack of professionalism has been astonishing and was there before GH arrived.
Any player who does not want to give their all and play for professional pride at least, needs bombing out.
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It's Lichaj today.
Anybody but GH, that's always been his method.
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Towards the end of last season you could sense that Carew had shot his bolt and had had enough. You can see why he's had so many clubs and has a 2 to 3 year turn over at each one.
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It's Lichaj today.
Anybody but GH, that's always been his method.
Has anyone found these supposed quotes yet?
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It's Lichaj today.
Anybody but GH, that's always been his method.
Has anyone found these supposed quotes yet?
I've heard this as well, it's supposedly something he said on Radio WM, although being at the game myself i did'nt hear it.
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I was too busy faking the moon landings, sorry
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It's Lichaj today.
Anybody but GH, that's always been his method.
Has anyone found these supposed quotes yet?
I've heard this as well, it's supposedly something he said on Radio WM, although being at the game myself i did'nt hear it.
It was something along the lines of.."he's had a shocker" he also said we were "low on confidence" At that point I switched off, I was worried all the sharp knives were going to connect with my wrists
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Some of the senior players have really let us down.
Amongst others, Carew with his pathetic excuses not to have to play, Friedel with his narcolepsy, Warnock with his pathetic lack of defensive nous, which he occasionally combines with Collins to produce a horrific double act.
As for Dunne with his blatant lack of fitness and form which looks self inflicted, having returned to training, and remained (at which point you have to ask questions of the coaching staff) overweight, he's been one of the worst offenders.
Some of those players (Friedel, Collins, for example) you can put down to being out of form, others - such as Carew and Dunne - it is to a greater degree self inflicted.
As for any of these being "scapegoats", scapegoats are people who are blamed for the faults of others. I can't really see how any of those underperforming players are copping stick for the faults of others, unless someone else is at fault for Carew randomly declaring himself "unfit" after helping himself to an extended holiday, or Dunne clearly eating a sofa every night to maintain a calorie intake which allows him to carry out the training of a professional footballer all week and STILL be overweight.
In all this current horrible period, what has shone through is the application and rising to the task of the young players, they have been largely magnificent. It is a shame that some older players who should really know better haven't managed to set a better example.
EDIT - sorry, I also forgot Ireland, another one who needs to hang his head in shame.
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It was his post match conf on BBC WM last night. Lichaj is 'inexperienced', but argueably kept better players quiet vs Spurs. I think he's a great prospect, so let's hope he doesn't hear this to screw his confidence.
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Summed up my thoughts, Paulie.
Carew, Ireland and Dunne have been a disgrace this season for various reasons. All these Carew-worshipping twats up the back of the Holte haven't got a clue. Still, he loves his tits and his fanny so that makes it alright. Ireland is a barking mad oxygen thief and Dunne makes my piss boil most of all, the fat fuck.
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See, to me, it's been Lerner and Houllier who've been a disgrace. Still, makes for good debate, different opinions and that!
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Is Lerner our new scapegoat? He's put in £120million to bring in players and done countless other things but to believe some of the people on here he is the devil incarnate.
scapegoat
Prounounced skeɪpˌgoʊt
noun
a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.
Sounds about right to me. He is to blame for his money being spent on those players who are letting us down and not trying.
What has he done that is so wrong? He might (emphasis on that last word) have employed the wrong man and made one mistake compared to hundreds of other things that were right and good.
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Ellis out
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I would tend to agree with Linus here.
The senior players have not been as professional as they should be but i think we could do with a manager who will try to manage our best players as effectively as possible and GH has not done so.
Carew and Ireland need the old arm-around-the-shoulder treatment and i think if they got it they could be exceptional for us. How far you take this is up for debate, but it seems that GH hasnt bothered at all.
Dunne on the other hand does not need such molly coddling. The story about their bust up is quite incredible if true and is awful man mangement. Let's not forget this time last year Dunne was one of, if not the best Centre halves in the league last year.
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Is Lerner our new scapegoat? He's put in £120million to bring in players and done countless other things but to believe some of the people on here he is the devil incarnate.
scapegoat
Prounounced skeɪpˌgoʊt
noun
a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.
Sounds about right to me. He is to blame for his money being spent on those players who are letting us down and not trying.
What has he done that is so wrong? He might (emphasis on that last word) have employed the wrong man and made one mistake compared to hundreds of other things that were right and good.
I wouldnt say Lerner is a scapegoat....I think everyone recognises what he has done for us.
But I do think that he has handled MON's departure and GH appointment badly...I just hope he addresses it before it is too late.
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Summed up my thoughts, Paulie.
Carew, Ireland and Dunne have been a disgrace this season for various reasons. All these Carew-worshipping twats up the back of the Holte haven't got a clue. Still, he loves his tits and his fanny so that makes it alright. Ireland is a barking mad oxygen thief and Dunne makes my piss boil most of all, the fat fuck.
I am with you on this post.
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The whole problem can be traced back to Thursday 6th May 2010.
Just 5 league wins under Cameron.
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As far as I can remember it seems a big majority of fellow Villa fans always go for scape goats, rather than excepting the real problem itself. I believe one example of this is blaming MON's tactics, (which admittedly at times were rather lacklustre) over fan-favourites who weren't putting in a shift. I.e - John Carew; Ashley Young; Richard Dunne
Over time, of course, the blame is constantly shifting between the manager, the board, and the players, and I firmly believe at this present time almost every factor of our club is to blame and we need a serious remodelling or we may find ourselves condemned to the same fate as the likes of Coventry, Leicester, Derby etc.
One plus, (possibly) on our side is the fans. We have a rich history and reputation for having great fans, and attendance at any away game will support this, as we always come in noisy numbers. However, we need to use this to our advantage by giving the team and management our full support on the pitch, as well as off it. If things get too bad, sure it is our time to voice an opinion; but please do not blindly get on peoples backs at will, when there are much bigger, more important problems that need addressing.
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No need for scapegoats - it was MoN - he left before his past their sell-by-dated over-priced dullards were finally, completely found out en-masse.
Everybody acts as if this was somehow not inevitable given the squad* MoN put together? They are just doing what they have always done but are now unable to adapt to new ideas/manager
*I fully accept that the youngsters and one or two exceptions (eg Cuellar, Downing) are trying.
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As far as I can remember it seems a big majority of fellow Villa fans always go for scape goats, rather than excepting the real problem itself. I believe one example of this is blaming MON's tactics, (which admittedly at times were rather lacklustre) over fan-favourites who weren't putting in a shift. I.e - John Carew; Ashley Young; Richard Dunne
Over time, of course, the blame is constantly shifting between the manager, the board, and the players, and I firmly believe at this present time almost every factor of our club is to blame and we need a serious remodelling or we may find ourselves condemned to the same fate as the likes of Coventry, Leicester, Derby etc.
One plus, (possibly) on our side is the fans. We have a rich history and reputation for having great fans, and attendance at any away game will support this, as we always come in noisy numbers. However, we need to use this to our advantage by giving the team and management our full support on the pitch, as well as off it. If things get too bad, sure it is our time to voice an opinion; but please do not blindly get on peoples backs at will, when there are much bigger, more important problems that need addressing.
Can't disagree with much of that Chiptick me old mate!
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Randy didn't handle the departure of Mon and Houlliers appointment well enough ?
Please explain, are you like Tsvet with insider knowledge on RL ?
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Lerner has given his previous manager shit loads of money and let him get on with the job with a fair amount of success, we are having a short term knockback but I really cant believe my eyes when I see him being panned. Be careful what you wish for, the billionaire spate of new ownership seems to have passed and I'm not sure I would like our club to be the plaything of an Indian chicken farmer or suchlike.
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Is Lerner our new scapegoat? He's put in £120million to bring in players and done countless other things but to believe some of the people on here he is the devil incarnate.
scapegoat
Prounounced skeɪpˌgoʊt
noun
a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.
Sounds about right to me. He is to blame for his money being spent on those players who are letting us down and not trying.
What has he done that is so wrong? He might (emphasis on that last word) have employed the wrong man and made one mistake compared to hundreds of other things that were right and good.
I'd love to know where this £120 million horseshit comes from. To many Lerner is great because he's not Ellis. To others, he's decent and an Improvement on Ellis but not exactly the second coming.
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Lerner has given his previous manager shit loads of money and let him get on with the job with a fair amount of success, we are having a short term knockback but I really cant believe my eyes when I see him being panned. Be careful what you wish for, the billionaire spate of new ownership seems to have passed and I'm not sure I would like our club to be the plaything of an Indian chicken farmer or suchlike.
Well said.
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Lerner has given his previous manager shit loads of money and let him get on with the job with a fair amount of success, we are having a short term knockback but I really cant believe my eyes when I see him being panned. Be careful what you wish for, the billionaire spate of new ownership seems to have passed and I'm not sure I would like our club to be the plaything of an Indian chicken farmer or suchlike.
Well said.
Indeed .. I agree with what Paulie and Chris Smith have said above too