Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Leighton on December 02, 2010, 04:19:59 PM
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So the decision to host the World Cup in 2018 has been taken, and it isnt England! So where does that leave the redevelopment of Villa Park, especially the proposed new North Stand?
Do you think the board have been purposely putting the plans on hold until the 2018 host venue was confirmed before committing fully to it? And do we still really need it?
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Might as well leave it as it is and get back to sorting out things on the pitch. Let's face it, we struggle to fill a 42k stadium.
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I'd prefer we built an winning team and organically developed the stadium due to demand.
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They can put that videowall back in the North/DE corner now.
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Id fill in the sides by the Holte and press the FA to allow standing at the lower North. That would take us up to 45000+ and the North stand could be developed when we have spare cash
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Do you think the board have been purposely putting the plans on hold until the 2018 host venue was confirmed before committing fully to it? And do we still really need it?
We don't need the extra capacity but probably need the extra corporate facilities that a new stand could provide. It would have made sense to delay a decision until the WC venue was announced as no doubt we would have had some funding assistance to build it. Who knows now?
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Leave the ground as it is!
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I'd rather not have 10,000-15,000 empty seats every week.
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Might as well leave it as it is and get back to sorting out things on the pitch. Let's face it, we struggle to fill a 42k stadium.
fully agree dont need nor want any more"empty seats my lord"---it dont look good,
maybe now we might get get the sorely missed video screen back at the corner of the Deadly Doug &NorthStands,--the new eyesore at Trinity/North Stand corner is just a non-entity and a complete waste of space,
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I'd also fill the corners of the Holte in, the atmosphere would be much better.
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I'd prefer we built an winning team and organically developed the stadium due to demand.
I agree but I think thats the thinking anyway.
I was told by one of the senior managers at the club that the stadium will only be enlarged when the demand is there. I cannot imagine the North stand would be rebuilt for only 2 or 3 WC games, whoever was funding it.
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Yes but we would look a laughing stock filling those corners with seats but then not filling the seats with customers.
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I'd rather not have 10,000-15,000 empty seats every week.
I thought you were a massive fan of empty seats.
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Do you think the board have been purposely putting the plans on hold until the 2018 host venue was confirmed before committing fully to it? And do we still really need it?
We don't need the extra capacity but probably need the extra corporate facilities that a new stand could provide. It would have made sense to delay a decision until the WC venue was announced as no doubt we would have had some funding assistance to build it. Who knows now?
We don't sell out the corporate seats we already have. An additional 1500-2000 and going to be even harder to sell at the moment.
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The North Stand needs redeveloping just because it is so old and uncomfortable. We could probably expand to 50k for the handful of games we could get near to that number but wouldnt go above that. Even in our successful times we rarely went above 50k.
I dont understand why the floating fans cannot be accommodated in the same area of each stand so that the empty seats scenario is minimised. Also light blue seats dont help the scene.
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Hopefully they'll leave the ground as it is now. This is the only good thing to come out of us not winning the World Cup in 2018. We struggle to sell out as it is. I like having open corners too, it's the sign of a proper football ground.
As for these ideas of filling the Holte corners in- what a horrible idea. A stand like the Holte should be a single bank- it's bad enough it being a two-tiered affair.
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I'd rather not have 10,000-15,000 empty seats every week.
I thought you were a massive fan of empty seats.
haha, very good.
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If the money still exists - invest in the team (ASAP)
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What's the point? It's not like there are any FA Cup semis up for grabs now they're all at Wembley.
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Could we renovate the North stand but leave the capacity around the same level, but with the ability to increase it fairly easily if desired.
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The North Stand is tatty and ugly. Redevelop it for those reasons alone.
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I imagine there was a plan A and a contingency plan based on the bid going shit shaped. The contingency may now be to make aesthetic changes to the North. Essentially modernize it without blowing it up. It could do with a facelift if nothing else.
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Id fill in the sides by the Holte and press the FA to allow standing at the lower North. That would take us up to 45000+ and the North stand could be developed when we have spare cash
I don't like the idea of filling in the corners. Let's be different, let's keep it as it is. We don't need more seats at the moment anyway.
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Id fill in the sides by the Holte and press the FA to allow standing at the lower North. That would take us up to 45000+ and the North stand could be developed when we have spare cash
Agree, not with seats though - with some material like Ibrox.
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How much space is there in the corners now anyway?
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I think the North Stand certainly needs upgrading/rebuilding, if you build it we will come... 6th in the league!
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We don't sell out the corporate seats we already have. An additional 1500-2000 and going to be even harder to sell at the moment.
Is it not the case that all the corperate seats are sold on a seaon long basis, its just that loads dont turn up for certain fixtures?
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We don't need extra seats as things stand. The only ways we won't is if we improve on the pitch (and I mean from 6th not our current 15th place) or cut ticket prices.
The North stand does need some work but one of the few things it has to commend it is low prices. If we develop it and improve the stand prices will probably go up.
At the end of the day 43,000 or so is what we need.
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All the clubs who consistently finish above us either have bigger grounds than us, are planning to move to a bigger ground than us, play in London so can charge much more than us or a combination of these.
If we want to finish above them we need a bigger ground.
I would wait till the team is doing a bit better and the recession shows signs of ending first though.
As for how we would fill it... win loads of matches, sign exciting players. That'll do it.
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The North Stand looks ugly, out-dated... it needs to go and a new stand with corners to replace it. We should also fill the corners around the Holte End and put seats in, I can picture it in my head right now... looking really good.
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Id fill in the sides by the Holte and press the FA to allow standing at the lower North. That would take us up to 45000+ and the North stand could be developed when we have spare cash
I don't like the idea of filling in the corners. Let's be different, let's keep it as it is. We don't need more seats at the moment anyway.
I agree with this. Then just sand-blast or steam-clean the exterior of the North Stand, add a lick of paint and it'll look great.
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Think we should go ahead as it will be cheaper to build the stand this summer rather than leave it as when the economy recover their will be more demand on builders and this means higher rate of pay.
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Didn't we give up our chance of being an Olympic venue in 2012 because the North Stand was going to be done that summer?
I'll be bloomin' annoyed now if we don't I was looking forward to watching the swimming there.
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Don't worry... Birmingham City Council is planning on bringing back the city centre beach in time for us to host the beach volleyball.
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We used to be 'Fortress' Villa Park. As we've currently turned into 'Bouncy Castle' Villa Park, there'll be much fun to be had.
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We don't need extra seats as things stand. The only ways we won't is if we improve on the pitch (and I mean from 6th not our current 15th place) or cut ticket prices.
The North stand does need some work but one of the few things it has to commend it is low prices. If we develop it and improve the stand prices will probably go up.
At the end of the day 43,000 or so is what we need.
Yeah i agree with this ive been a season ticket holder in lower North ever since we moved the away supporters and the price is the main reason ive continued renewing if it goes up a lot their will be even more empty seats.
We need to get it right on the pitch before we thinks about anything else
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I agree we need to get thing's right on the pitch first but a bit of a facelift or some other work on the North Stand would'nt go amiss.
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In May this year Randy Lerner said,
"There are a variety of balancing acts that go into generating additional capacity and at what cost are you going to do it."
Lerner added: "When will work start on the North Stand? We will start this year although not with a grand designer project to begin with. You will see small signs.
"The time frame? One to three years, two to four years, it depends. There are a couple of things that need to click in, in terms of our commercial model to put us in a position to really do something special with the North Stand.
"It is on our mind. We have got plans and drawings. It is the centre piece of our next big plan but I couldn't say definitively when we are going to get it done.
"If we do it, the capacity will increase to 50,000 at Villa Park."
I'm guessing, but the couple of things might be success on the pitch AND a winning WC bid?
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Hang on, what about a bouncy castle though? Knock the north down and buy a variety of inflatable fortresses to cater for varying numbers. We might have to have only 3 sides on a windy day but I can see this working.
No flares though, it might pop!
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We don't sell out the corporate seats we already have. An additional 1500-2000 and going to be even harder to sell at the moment.
Is it not the case that all the corperate seats are sold on a seaon long basis, its just that loads dont turn up for certain fixtures?
No it is not. Some are sold on a season long basis, others are sold on a match by match basis.
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Id fill in the sides by the Holte and press the FA to allow standing at the lower North. That would take us up to 45000+ and the North stand could be developed when we have spare cash
It's got sod all to do with the FA - the law says standing's banned at football grounds of teams in the top 2 divisions.
This is a good read - http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snha-03937.pdf
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The North Stand is a bit of a hole. I wouldn't mind seeing it redeveloped with a bit more architectural flair, even if the capacity is not increased dramatically.
I could see the Villa Village and all the admin buildings being consolidated into the new stand, maybe even a decent museum (a Blackpool style music venue?). This could arguably provide space for a Tesco (or similar) to be built in the current Villa Village location.
Basically there are other ways of generating income other than just match tickets, none of which the current North Stand achieves at any level.
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Leave the Holte as it is, let's not start turning the ground into Ibrox. I like the way the sun shines in through the Holte corner. I doubt there's any room to do anything major with the Holte corners anyway.
The North Stand should go though as others have said we are now struggling to sell out even the so called 'big' games. The football needs to improve and there needs to be a second wave of the Randy Revolution to get the bums on the seats. An injection of optimism and they'll be back. The North Stand just is showing its age and takes away from the greatness of Villa Park now (I know the traditionalists love it but lets face it, it's no old Trinity Road and its loss would not exactly be a travesty!).
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Might as well leave it as it is and get back to sorting out things on the pitch. Let's face it, we struggle to fill a 42k stadium.
Spot on
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Man City weren't always selling out at Maine Road when Eastlands became available. They could have used the same logic.
Back then (less than ten years ago) they used to get low/mid 30ks. Today they get 45,000+
And did so before the Sheikh started throwing money about.
Sunderland didn't always sell out at Roker Park with a capacity of just 22,000.
Today they regularly top 40,000
Bolton weren't selling out Burnden Park. They rarely sell out the Reebook either, but they do get better gates today.
The point to all this? If you cap yourself by only making decisions based on current circumstances you reduce the potential to evolve and expand. That's something Rinder and co understood instinctively but the crew who followed years after much less so. It's that mindset -more than anything else- that needs to change, the make do and mend/ happy just to settle default position.
I doubt very much we'd sell out more than a handful of times initially if the capacity was closer to 50,000. But then again I can't say for certain. A bigger capacity would give us the opportunity to offer more fan friendly prices and higher away allocations, so I think topping 45,000 5-6 times per season wouldn't be out of the question in the short/medium term.
That's the thing, we wouldn't need to be selling out every game to make it viable. It would be a long term commitment and would pay for itself in time.
The North Stand as is is an eyesore and doesn't reflect well on the club. It needs to go.
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A clean of the North Stand won't do much good, it's like polishing a turd. It's out-dated a looks shit both inside and outside. When you see some of the other developments around and see what can be done.
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Man City weren't always selling out at Maine Road when Eastlands became available. They could have used the same logic.
Back then (less than ten years ago) they used to get low/mid 30ks. Today they get 45,000+
And did so before the Sheikh started throwing money about.
Sunderland didn't always sell out at Roker Park with a capacity of just 22,000.
Today they regularly top 40,000
Bolton weren't selling out Burnden Park. They rarely sell out the Reebook either, but they do get better gates today.
The point to all this? If you cap yourself by only making decisions based on current circumstances you reduce the potential to evolve and expand. That's something Rinder and co understood instinctively but the crew who followed years after much less so. It's that mindset -more than anything else- that needs to change, the make do and mend/ happy just to settle default position.
I doubt very much we'd sell out more than a handful of times initially if the capacity was closer to 50,000. But then again I can't say for certain. A bigger capacity would give us the opportunity to offer more fan friendly prices and higher away allocations, so I think topping 45,000 5-6 times per season wouldn't be out of the question in the short/medium term.
That's the thing, we wouldn't need to be selling out every game to make it viable. It would be a long term commitment and would pay for itself in time.
The North Stand as is is an eyesore and doesn't reflect well on the club. It needs to go.
That sums it up for me, as soon as you settle for staying where you are and not moving forward then you start to slip backwards. God knows, we've all seen it happen before
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A clean of the North Stand won't do much good, it's like polishing a turd. It's out-dated a looks shit both inside and outside. When you see some of the other developments around and see what can be done.
Total carbuncle of a stand.
Needs replacing, but I am with the 'let's get the team right first' shouts.
We can't get 42k gates for the Blose at the moment, so any money just has to be spent on players -- been here before on so many occasions.
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According to the England bid document we were going to spend 46M USD and increase the gross capacity from 42,788 to 47,300.
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It couldnt and wouldnt happen, but I would love a big open terrace and a wooden half time scoreboard in the corner.
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It couldnt and wouldnt happen, but I would love a big open terrace and a wooden half time scoreboard in the corner.
And a very ornate building set at a right angle selling Bovril and ready salted crisps.
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Open terrace and a wooden halftime scoreboard might be out of the question, but a single tier stand could be both contemporary and a nod to the past if done right.
There are a few examples in Germany:
Dortmund
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4630/suedtribuene02.jpg) (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/suedtribuene02.jpg/)
Kaiserslautern
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9257/kaiserslauternin02.jpg) (http://img149.imageshack.us/i/kaiserslauternin02.jpg/)
Dortmund's stadium in particular is an interesting mix of the old and new. They've managed to give a certain sense of uniformity with four stands that all had different dimensions and angles. You can still tell there were four separate stands once, as per most UK grounds. But the modifications still leave the ground with character, unlike the souless identikit wrap arounds or grounds with separate but near enough identical stands on each side.
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Man City weren't always selling out at Maine Road when Eastlands became available. They could have used the same logic.
Back then (less than ten years ago) they used to get low/mid 30ks. Today they get 45,000+
And did so before the Sheikh started throwing money about.
Sunderland didn't always sell out at Roker Park with a capacity of just 22,000.
Today they regularly top 40,000
Bolton weren't selling out Burnden Park. They rarely sell out the Reebook either, but they do get better gates today.
The point to all this? If you cap yourself by only making decisions based on current circumstances you reduce the potential to evolve and expand. That's something Rinder and co understood instinctively but the crew who followed years after much less so. It's that mindset -more than anything else- that needs to change, the make do and mend/ happy just to settle default position.
I doubt very much we'd sell out more than a handful of times initially if the capacity was closer to 50,000. But then again I can't say for certain. A bigger capacity would give us the opportunity to offer more fan friendly prices and higher away allocations, so I think topping 45,000 5-6 times per season wouldn't be out of the question in the short/medium term.
That's the thing, we wouldn't need to be selling out every game to make it viable. It would be a long term commitment and would pay for itself in time.
The North Stand as is is an eyesore and doesn't reflect well on the club. It needs to go.
Would agree with this.
The last 10% of tickets are always the hardest to sell as they tend to be in less desirable parts of the ground. Also, some people just cannot be bothered if they have to go out of their way to get a ticket.
Increasing the capacity to 50,000 would give us spare capacity to give youngsters the opportunity to come at low prices, thus selling the club to the fans of the future. Also, it would allow us in the short term to have a better spread of pricing to help the fans that are finding it a struggle with current prices. The lower North Stand seems to have been a success because of this.
I think that attendances will grow if the capacity is increased. If floating supporters knew they could get down to the ground the day before the game and buy a ticket if they fancied going to a game that weekend, I believe this would see more people coming to the games, rather than having to think about getting a ticket a couple of weeks before when we play a more attractive team and we are pushing to near capacity.
Unless we are really successful, we will struggle to sell out 50,000 every week but there will be times when we would sell out. Other matches would give the club opportunity to come up with new ideas to boost attendances, whether it is 'kids for a quid' or incentives of low priced tickets coupled with guaranteed tickets for bigger games.
I know there will be some people that will say that it is not fair on season ticket holders who pay regular prices but at the end of the day you have to decide whether you think the season ticket price is fair in its own right and you are willing to pay it so that you have the same seat, guaranteed seats etc. The idea of increasing capacity is ultimately to benefit the club and try and make it more successful and that's what we all want. If that means others paying less than you do, that can't be wrong, can it?
The overriding factor though, is that it should not hinder our ability to compete on the pitch.
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A bigger capacity means that we could -in theory- look to reduce the cost of season tickets. Or at least provide parts of the ground where they are cheaper.
No existing ST holder should necessarily be inconvenienced or miss out financially and it could increase the volume of season tickets we actually sell (in line with a degree of success or at least progress on the pitch) that would obviously swell the overall average come the end of the year.
One other point, though we had quite a healthy attendance > percentage of total capacity ratio mid-late 90's it wouldn't be right to say that we always sold out, despite a capacity of only 39k + Yet when the capacity was increased to 43,000 the average went up - and the year 2000+ is hardly a golden period in the clubs history.
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Many years ago when I was in regular contact with Doug Ellis and I was involved in finding suitable sites for a major hotel chain the thinking seemed to be that a multi purpose development of the North Stand location could be an attractive proposition.
In more optimistic times an hotel combined with corporate facilities and leisure use coupled with a new stand facing the pitch could be viable but that level of land development confidence will be a long time returning, if ever.
Villa's land will always be of interest to developers due to the proximity of the motorway network.
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A bigger capacity means that we could -in theory- look to reduce the cost of season tickets. Or at least provide parts of the ground where they are cheaper.
I remember Arsenal fans thinking the same.
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It's not more seats the North Stand requires, it's more legroom. I'd rather fly to Canada in the rear seats of a Thomas Cook aircraft than sit in there.
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I'd love Randy to make the Holte one tier.
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You wonder whether we may have missed a trick my not not looking at the feasability of developing something with Tesco, might not have been enough car parking space though
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A bigger capacity means that we could -in theory- look to reduce the cost of season tickets. Or at least provide parts of the ground where they are cheaper.
I remember Arsenal fans thinking the same.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Arsenal supporters (those in the traditional North London/Hertfordshire catchment area at least) probably have -on average- higher incomes than their Birmingham counterparts.
Arsenal have also had many years of consistent CL qualification plus the attraction of players like Fabregas, Arshavin, Van Persie and co.
I'm not sure I'd ever want to see us charge £893 £1,825 for season tickets, but if we had at least some of the above in place the demand might be there to (at least partly) justify it.
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I'd love Randy to make the Holte one tier.
That would involve knocking the stand we've come to love? I like the Holte as it is...maybe the new North Stand could be one tier?
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A bigger capacity means that we could -in theory- look to reduce the cost of season tickets. Or at least provide parts of the ground where they are cheaper.
I remember Arsenal fans thinking the same.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Arsenal supporters (those in the traditional North London/Hertfordshire catchment area at least) probably have -on average- higher incomes than their Birmingham counterparts.
Arsenal have also had many years of consistent CL qualification plus the attraction of players like Fabregas, Arshavin, Van Persie and co.
I'm not sure I'd ever want to see us charge £893 £1,825 for season tickets, but if we had at least some of the above in place the demand might be there to (at least partly) justify it.
I don't disagree with any of that. However, some did think that ticket prices would be cheaper.
To put more seats in at Villa Park would cost a fortune. I can't see how that would drive ticket prices down. Unless they were going to follow the same type of desperation measures as they do now to fill seats.
I don't think the demand is there to justify any sort of expansion.
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We struggle to sell out 42700 current capacity. Calculation below are fag packet stuff but!
This year we will average out at 35000. Our average ticket price is 30 pounds. This means the gate for every game is 1,050,000 pounds. If we expand the capacity to 50 000 and reduce the average ticket price to 25 pounds and this results in average gate increasing to 45000 the revenue per game will be 1,125,000. On the face of it a 75000 pounds inrease per game means that payback on investment will be long and possibly not worth pursuing HOWEVER having 45K people turn up ever week will generate further revenue from related sales and give the whole club and team a lift, build the platform to increase the commercial opportunity from big business. So increasing capacity and reducing ticket price is well worth investigating.
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A bigger capacity means that we could -in theory- look to reduce the cost of season tickets. Or at least provide parts of the ground where they are cheaper.
I remember Arsenal fans thinking the same.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Arsenal supporters (those in the traditional North London/Hertfordshire catchment area at least) probably have -on average- higher incomes than their Birmingham counterparts.
Arsenal have also had many years of consistent CL qualification plus the attraction of players like Fabregas, Arshavin, Van Persie and co.
I'm not sure I'd ever want to see us charge £893 £1,825 for season tickets, but if we had at least some of the above in place the demand might be there to (at least partly) justify it.
I don't disagree with any of that. However, some did think that ticket prices would be cheaper.
To put more seats in at Villa Park would cost a fortune. I can't see how that would drive ticket prices down. Unless they were going to follow the same type of desperation measures as they do now to fill seats.
I don't think the demand is there to justify any sort of expansion.
And that's fair enough.
I'm of the opinion that making a decision that affects longterm progress based purely on current circumstances is limiting and incredibly shortsighted. And gave examples of other clubs (and ours) who have seen an increase in average attendance after expansion -even if they weren't selling out consistently prior to the work taking place.
Agree to disagree.
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Good business practice is to incease demand before increasing supply.
Demand is falling right now.
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Good business practice is to incease demand before increasing supply.
Demand is falling right now.
It may be a good time to knock it down as my guess is we'd have the new stand closed for business for some games anyway.
Thus, another school of thought is to reduce capacity when demand is low only to increase capacity for when times are good.
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Redeveloping the Witton end to increase the capacity would mean a major structure that would take some time to build. Unless the stand was 2-tier and built behind the North Stand with the lower tier added after the North Stand was demolished, we would be cutting capacity during the redevelopment. Better to do this when attendances are below capacity.
Building behind the North Stand would mean the car park and the facilities behind being cleared. As others have said, viability may depend on other facilities in addition to a stand being built e.g. retail, hotel, business/conference space. It may be that these are built first, allowing a steady moving of existing facilities behind the North Stand before the stand itself is constructed. The benefit of this is that it would grow the commercial activities before committing to spending on the stand.
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Like others on here I'm fond of the North Stand for sentimental reasons. However, I recognize that its redevelopment represents the best opportunity to increase the overall ground capacity. The club would also like to bring its facilities in-line with the rest of the ground, and their vision (largely shared with all other Premier League clubs) for the contemporary supporter experience.
If we were selling-out more consistently, or still hosting FA Cup semi-finals, then I would imagine we would have seen moves in this direction from the board - some feasibility work has supposedly already been undertaken. I also think that they would like to be seen to be improving the ground, as part of moving towards the 'bright future'. However, you could argue that at the moment the North Stand helps rather than hinders attendances, by providing supporters with a cost effective option provided they are happy with the legroom/ facilities etc. Therefore redevelopment plans exist in a kind of limbo, and only a successful England World Cup bid would have forced the issue.
Taking the North Stand out of use would only reduce the capacity by around 6,000, and therefore wouldn't have a massive financial impact (especially if we aren't selling-out). Depending upon the design, by avoiding home games at the end of one season and the start of the following, and fast-tracking a portion of the new stand, it might even be possible to avoid any reduced overall capacity.
I agree with many on here that individual stands are good, and this increasingly helps to identify Villa Park as being a traditional football ground rather than an identikit stadium. However, this doesn't mean that stands can't be linked at all, or share common characteristics. Although a very ugly stand in itself (especially externally), some continuation of the Trinity Road Stand tier arrangements etc. would result in a more coordinated and considered appearance for a new Witton End stand (especially as it would probably be on a similar scale). Within this similarity, the introduction of elements such as the old Trinity Rd stand gable, or the AV floodlights, would help express the individuality of the stands in my view.
With the renovation of the Holte Pub, and the introduction of the mosaics on the Holte End, the area around and between these two has started to play a role in representing the club's heritage following demolition of the old Trinity Rd stand. Therefore, I'm comfortable with the rest of the ground being both more consistent, and more contemporary. To this end I would also ultimately welcome the Holte End reverting to a single tier to make this difference even more apparent.
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I'd also like to see made into a single tier stand.
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I just hope they don't base it on the Trinity. I have a feeling they will.
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I think (and hope) not. Different era.
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Leave it for now, No point as we can't fill it now, lets get the team winning and hopefully people will come back.
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I just hope they don't base it on the Trinity. I have a feeling they will.
What's wrong with the trinity?
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I just hope they don't base it on the Trinity. I have a feeling they will.
What's wrong with the trinity?
It's not the old one.
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I think there will be redevlopment in the next 2-3 years of the North stand.
That should whack our capacity up to around 50k. Obviously if we're bobbling along 11 or 12th we won't fill it for many games but in the last few seasons challenging top 4, we have been getting season averages of 40k I think so we're not that far off.
This season our attendances have taken a dip, obviously in part to poorer results on the pitch but more imo due to pitching our match day prices far too high this season especially in the economic climate. 41 quid to sit in the Upper Witton on saturday, you're not going to get people queueing round the block to sit there. So much so we won't sell out again.
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Did someone on here not post that single tier stands are massively more expensive than their two tier counterparts as they have to go back a lot further?
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Did someone on here not post that single tier stands are massively more expensive than their two tier counterparts as they have to go back a lot further?
I'd imagine so because we'd need so much more depth to retain capacity. And, the view from the back of a single tier Holte probably wouldn't be great? I love the present Holte End, I'd hate to lose its facade, the steps and the mosaics. I think the new Holte End is now one of the most renowned stands in its own right. Rebuilding a perfectly good stand when we need to redevelop the other end (and the squad!) would be a luxury we can't really afford.
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If the club has to make ends meet, then money spent on a new stand is money not spent on new players. Better invest in the players, increase the demand, then satisfy it and increase the revenue with a new stand.
As things stand we would be spending money on a new facility without any increased income with which to pay for it.
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Who built the North Stand - was it actually Ellmanton or is that a myth?
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Who built the North Stand - was it actually Ellmanton or is that a myth?
The North Stand was built by 'Fairclough' ...a large building firm of the time. They were acquired by the group we now know as The Amec Group.
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A real test of Lerner's ambition and plans for the club.
Is he satisfied with upper mid table mediocrity? Or does he want to move on to the next stage?
If it's the latter then he has to invest in the team on the pitch AND invest in developing (and filling) the ground to support the increased costs.
My hunch is he's the former. A sort of american HDE without the ego or, more importantly, the odd cup win.