Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on November 27, 2010, 07:08:11 PM
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I thought he was outstanding today.
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Like most of our team: slightly out of his depth in the first half and very good in the second. I'm wondering whether GH sees central defence of defensive midfield as his future position.
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Would have been my MOTM to even without the goals.
Felt sorry for the lad, score two in front of the Holte today but didn't get to celebrate them.
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I thought he was outstanding today.
In the second half but his future has to be as a centre half, his committment was superb but I dont think his distribution and positional sense is up to playing in midfield full-time but thats just my opinion
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Would have been my MOTM to even without the goals.
Felt sorry for the lad, score two in front of the Holte today but didn't get to celebrate them.
Yeah, I thought he could be MOTM.
Who was, by the way? I don't remember hearing an announcement.
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Will be a great Central Defender... This spell in CM will only be beneficial and help him develop into a cultured defender.
Could be really great.
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Would have been my MOTM to even without the goals.
Felt sorry for the lad, score two in front of the Holte today but didn't get to celebrate them.
Yeah, I thought he could be MOTM.
Who was, by the way? I don't remember hearing an announcement.
I didnt hear one either, has to be Clark
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All things considered, I thought he did well last week, too.
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All at sea in the first half and his tracking of players was very poor, better second half and two good goals. Way too early to tell how he might turn out or what his best position is...
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No.
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who started this by calling him the new/next david platt?
Absolutely nothing like him in any way shape or form! i cannot even to begin to think where you may find any similarity other than he has scored 2 goals!
Behave!!!
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Ask the Boss.
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so you didnt name him the new/next david platt??
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I think he has a really good future, as a midfielder or defender. It's just a matter of which he/we chose to develop and mature him in.
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Thread inspired from a conversation I had with our esteemed Editor this afternoon after the match. By the way, I agree with him.
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sorry legion, i think he will be nothing like platt in the football or anatomical sense!
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No worries. We're all entitled to our opinion. It is a discussion board after all. I think he will become something special.
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I think he'll be a top centre half personally.
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The new/next Paul McGrath? (sorry)
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i am not doubting his ability as a player, as i view him as extremely talented, but maybe to excel in defensive positions rather than an attacking midfielder beating the last defender to through balls! That is the comparison i disagree with the platt thing!
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The new/next Paul McGrath? (sorry)
maybe????
But lets not burden him with that expectation eh!
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It was a feeble attempt at a joke.
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Handy to have a defensive player who knows how to finish all the same.
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He could have had a hat trick as well, probably missed the easier one of the three as well. The first was a cracker.
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Ciaran Platt David Clark er no bonkers
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Might be the new Derek Mountfield at least.
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The new Gary Cahill?
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He looks like a bloody good player. On the other hand, I predicted great things for Scimeca, Olney, Norton & Hughes.
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The new Gary Cahill?
depends how he copes when he's not in the team
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Will be a great Central Defender... This spell in CM will only be beneficial and help him develop into a cultured defender.
Could be really great.
Agreed - a fine CB prospect and seems to have the temperament too.
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Seems Clark is the new Bannan, who was the new Albrighton, who was the new, well you get my meaning.
Worries me when a kid who has spent his professional life as CB suddenly is thought of the new Platt after scoring 2 goals in a game we were slaughtered 4-2 at home.
Bright future, new David Platt, hilarious, only I'm not laughing and I doubt few Villa fans are tonight.
Jimmy Brown was once going to be the greatest captain Villa ever had, anyone remember him ?
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Seems Clark is the new Bannan, who was the new Albrighton, who was the new, well you get my meaning.
Worries me when a kid who has spent his professional life as CB suddenly is thought of the new Platt after scoring 2 goals in a game we were slaughtered 4-2 at home.
Bright future, new David Platt, hilarious, only I'm not laughing and I doubt few Villa fans are tonight.
Jimmy Brown was once going to be the greatest captain Villa ever had, anyone remember him ?
Didn't take long for you to resort to type.
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I really rate Clark, I can honestly see him as a midfielder, I think how well he is playing now, imagine him in a few years.
The new Gareth Barry?
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No he is not the next Platt and yes he has huge potential. I hope he keeps improving.
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YOu see as a midfield player I think each time I have watched him he looks much more comfortable as an attacking player than a holding midfielder. He is a good footballer, but I can see the point, he has a knack of getting into goalscoring positions from midfield. Chelsea, Blues, could have had 4 today, he is certainly a threat in the opposition box. IMO we should keep going with him in there as I think he is potentially very good there.
Bannan continues to impress me too. The two of them are good players, but actually might benefit from a Petrov with them.
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Maybe the new Southgate - can play in both midfield & defense & chip in with the odd goal.
Then he'll piss off somewhere in a couple of years as he wants to 'win trophies'.
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he reminds me a lot of a young Gareth Barry. Not Platt who had that incredbile gift of timing his runs to the box with perfection. There aren't too many of those around. Clark is developing into a very silky footballer, and he also seems the type like Barry to be very grounded at such a young age. Let's hope as a club we can surround him with good players to help him win things.
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The fact that a converted centre-back was frequently the furthest player forward for most of our forward play is a bit worrying. While Carew casually jogged up from the centre circle two dozen yards from the play.
Reflects very well on Clark though. He looks excellent and will be one of our senior players within a couple of years.
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pass the duchie.
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Would have been my MOTM to even without the goals.
Felt sorry for the lad, score two in front of the Holte today but didn't get to celebrate them.
Completely agree, this lad is imo a future Villa captain, and together with Barry Bannan,Supa Marc, The Fonz and Fabian Delph will be the future of our great club.
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Seems Clark is the new Bannan, who was the new Albrighton, who was the new, well you get my meaning.
Actually, no.
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ok we now know that Clarke not only has been impressive and effective in midfield, but can score goals. So do you really think we should give Reo coker a 50k 3 year contract or sell him in January and buy a Quality replacemant in Jan and have Clarke as a serious challenger along with Delph and Gary Gardner ??
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If and when it goes to his head a bit and he starts playing indulgent/needless/eleborate back passes to Friedel from the half way line then flies out to Italy to negotiate a transfer while we are in a relegation run-in then he is truly the new David Platt. But admittedly I would settle for a similar three years performances on the pitch.
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If and when it goes to his head a bit and he starts playing indulgent/needless/eleborate back passes to Friedel from the half way line then flies out to Italy to negotiate a transfer while we are in a relegation run-in then he is truly the new David Platt. But admittedly I would settle for a similar three years performances on the pitch.
His head also heads to be a bit more balloon shaped as well.
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Surely Clark is a centre back?
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Jimmy Brown was once going to be the greatest captain Villa ever had, anyone remember him ?
Yes I remember him - our youngest ever player at 15 years 349 days!! Next question?
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I thought Clark was awful in the first half today and was calling for his substitution. He improved second half. As for being the next David Platt I am not convinced.
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Not for me, Clark certainly has no case of spoonface.
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Don't think he will be the next Platty, I think that will be Bannan, A very good player in the making though, A goal against the scum would make him a hero.
Certainly more to come from him
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I thought he was outstanding today.
In the second half but his future has to be as a centre half, his committment was superb but I dont think his distribution and positional sense is up to playing in midfield full-time but thats just my opinion
Agreed. He gives the ball away too much for me, and our midfield is by-passed with him and Bannan in it. Because they're young it gets overlooked and people are quick to forgive them for sloppy passes etc, but they're the main reason we're struggling this season. We've just got too many kids in the first team at the moment. Not their fault, obviously, but we've just got to grin and bear it till Petrov and co get fit.
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Agreed. He gives the ball away too much for me, and our midfield is by-passed with him and Bannan in it. Because they're young it gets overlooked and people are quick to forgive them for sloppy passes etc, but they're the main reason we're struggling this season. We've just got too many kids in the first team at the moment. Not their fault, obviously, but we've just got to grin and bear it till Petrov and co get fit.
I largely agree with that SH. I'm enjoying watching the kids play, but an ideal world they'd be used a bit more sparingly than they are at the moment. Of our current squad, I could see NRC and Bannan being a decent combination. The energetic ball winner with the composed ball player.
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Agreed. He gives the ball away too much for me, and our midfield is by-passed with him and Bannan in it. Because they're young it gets overlooked and people are quick to forgive them for sloppy passes etc, but they're the main reason we're struggling this season. We've just got too many kids in the first team at the moment. Not their fault, obviously, but we've just got to grin and bear it till Petrov and co get fit.
I largely agree with that SH. I'm enjoying watching the kids play, but an ideal world they'd be used a bit more sparingly than they are at the moment. Of our current squad, I could see NRC and Bannan being a decent combination. The energetic ball winner with the composed ball player.
Spot on. In an ideal world these players would be introduced gradually, but the situation we find ourselves in now is unique for Villa and they've all been thrown in at the deep end. I just don't go with all this, "the kids are brilliant, but the senior ones are all to blame". Because for me the reason we seem to be getting beat left right and centre is because our team is packed out with kids. Bannan and Clarke gave the ball away so many times yesterday it was untrue, but fans seem to ignore it.
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I still think Reo Coker is the big miss Risso. IF we could stick him in with Bannan and Clark, with Young and Downing playing off Gabby in the way Chelsea play, I think it woul dbe effective as Clark gets forward so well.
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I still think Reo Coker is the big miss Risso. IF we could stick him in with Bannan and Clark, with Young and Downing playing off Gabby in the way Chelsea play, I think it woul dbe effective as Clark gets forward so well.
I think I'd have Albrighton's name on the teamsheet before any of those players. When fit of course.
Albrighton
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I think his best position will be at CB if he can just sort is pasing out what a player he will be.
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The next Platt? Not at all.
The next Allan Evans with a bit of Ian Taylor thrown in, maybe.
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As a previous poster said, more like a young Gareth Barry. Defender who can play a bit.
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We've missed NRC and his grafting abilities, I don't think the Arse would have had quite so much freedom if he'd been playing.
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If the team has badly missed anyone it's Petrov. He kept the midfield ticking over and rarely if ever lost possession of the ball. Now we give it away left right and centre.
He's easily the biggest miss of this injury crisis we find ourselves in this season.
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Not sure about "easily" the biggest miss, but I would certainly put Petrov's absence as more crucial than NRC's. He was just coming back into form and fitness as well, which must have been even more frustrating for him than for us.
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Platt - No
Townsend - Maybe?
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If the team has badly missed anyone it's Petrov. He kept the midfield ticking over and rarely if ever lost possession of the ball. Now we give it away left right and centre.
He's easily the biggest miss of this injury crisis we find ourselves in this season.
Cant agree with that at all.
He would have just been outmanouvered by Arsenal. As he has been regularly against most teams.
I like Stan, he's a model pro, he does his best but he just isnt mobile enough or naturally fit enough to play the position he plays any more. Not week in, week out.
Dont get me wrong, we could do with him right now but I think we've missed NRC far more. Albrighton is now a critical miss too.
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If the team has badly missed anyone it's Petrov. He kept the midfield ticking over and rarely if ever lost possession of the ball. Now we give it away left right and centre.
He's easily the biggest miss of this injury crisis we find ourselves in this season.
Cant agree with that at all.
He would have just been outmanouvered by Arsenal. As he has been regularly against most teams.
I like Stan, he's a model pro, he does his best but he just isnt mobile enough or naturally fit enough to play the position he plays any more. Not week in, week out.
Dont get me wrong, we could do with him right now but I think we've missed NRC far more. Albrighton is now a critical miss too.
Reo Coker's barely contributed anything to Aston Villa in his career so far. Yep, I'd rather him in the team than Clarke at the moment but to say he's more of a miss than Petrov is confusing to say the least.
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i think he is more of a miss than petrov... reo-cokers energy and breaking up play is something we simply dont have when he isnt available...
petrov, as neat and tidy as he is, lacks the mobility and energt to play the holding role... i have always said it, but i think he would be much better suited to la liga or serie a...
as mentioned above though, the one player we are desperately missing, is albrighton... thats how big his impact has been this season... he is now an integral part of our creative side... without him, there isnt much else other than watch downing lose the ball on his wrong foot, and young fall over and complain at the referee... (an exaggeration, i know, but they can be so frustratingly hit and miss)
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Clark has that hallmark of a great player, namely that he looks like he's got ages on the ball.
Look at that first goal, and ask yourself how many of our squad would have had the inclination to attempt it, let alone execute it.
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I dont see what's confusing. Reo Coker has been our most consistent central midfielder this season before his injury. Petrov by contrast has looked barely fit and off the pace, plus Reo Coker is exactly the type of player who would get about and help cover the kids whilst they are learning. Thats why I think we've missed him more than Petrov. We dont have another player like him at the moment. His strength, energy and mobility. He covers up a few sins to be honest. Yes, I know he's no Merson in the passing stakes but he's not as bad as made out either and actually, I think started to accept his limitations this season and kept it simpler and thus more effective.
As for contributing to the club. I dont see what Petrov has contributed that NRC has not. Both have done their best when called upon and both have been leaders but its NRCs attributes and qualities I think we miss most right now.
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Ciaran Clark aged 21 - playing for Aston Villa.
David Platt aged 21 - playing for Crewe.
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If the team has badly missed anyone it's Petrov. He kept the midfield ticking over and rarely if ever lost possession of the ball. Now we give it away left right and centre.
He's easily the biggest miss of this injury crisis we find ourselves in this season.
Cant agree with that at all.
He would have just been outmanouvered by Arsenal. As he has been regularly against most teams.
I like Stan, he's a model pro, he does his best but he just isnt mobile enough or naturally fit enough to play the position he plays any more. Not week in, week out.
Dont get me wrong, we could do with him right now but I think we've missed NRC far more. Albrighton is now a critical miss too.
Reo Coker's barely contributed anything to Aston Villa in his career so far. Yep, I'd rather him in the team than Clarke at the moment but to say he's more of a miss than Petrov is confusing to say the least.
I agree.
Petrov plays the holding position well, he's also more of an organiser than NRC and that's the thing we've been lacking most in recent weeks.
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I dont agree that Petrov plays the defensive role particularly well. I dont think its really natural to him. Not in this league anyway. He doesnt have the physical authority or even the raw mechanical ability for it.
I would also question whether one of these players is a better organiser than the other.
They're both natural leaders in my opinion. Both vocal and demanding.
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I know I'm in the minority but I'm far from convinced. I fancy Albrighton and Bannan much more than Clark to make it at Villa.
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I dont agree that Petrov plays the defensive role particularly well. I dont think its really natural to him. Not in this league anyway. He doesnt have the physical authority or even the raw mechanical ability for it.
I would also question whether one of these players is a better organiser than the other.
They're both natural leaders in my opinion. Both vocal and demanding.
Being vocal is not the same as being an organiser it's to do with having tactical nous. Reo Coker's a bit of a headless chicken, charging about banging into people whereas Petrov has more discipline which is why I used the description 'holding' rather than defensive. He's also 10 times better with the ball. Based on what we've seen of the type of player GH prefers my bet is that if both were available our captain would be the one getting a start.
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Neither will have anything to do with tactics. That's the managers job.
I wouldnt call Reo Coker a headless chicken either. He reads the game far better from a defensive point of view than Petrov who just seems to get bypassed rather too easily.
So if you're looking for a defensive midfielder, one is and one isn't. If you're not, well, neither are attacking midfielders and Petrov doesnt have the energy to be box to box.
One could have a future for the next few years here and the other is no longer up to being a starting XI player as far as I'm concerned and most likely should be sold as soon as we have enough cover. You can guess which I think is which.
Both can and most likely will be improved upon.
Anyway, Ciaran Clark...
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I think in that position of DCM there are a few traits which go together to make a great player:-
Reading of the game/positional sense* - Petrov is better.
Tackling - NRC is better.
Energy - NRC is better.
Passing - Petrov is better.
So it's not a matter of which is better, but rather which is more needed. Right now the answer is 'both' and if I had to jump either way I'd say NRC.
I do also think Clark could have all these traits, but right now the one he's most missing is the positional sense.
(*This is also key when we have position as the man in that anchor role needs to be able to back up the attacking play by providing an out ball for the man in possession. Keane was exceptional at this.)
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I dont agree that Petrov plays the defensive role particularly well. I dont think its really natural to him. Not in this league anyway. He doesnt have the physical authority or even the raw mechanical ability for it.
I would also question whether one of these players is a better organiser than the other.
They're both natural leaders in my opinion. Both vocal and demanding.
Being vocal is not the same as being an organiser it's to do with having tactical nous. Reo Coker's a bit of a headless chicken, charging about banging into people whereas Petrov has more discipline which is why I used the description 'holding' rather than defensive. He's also 10 times better with the ball. Based on what we've seen of the type of player GH prefers my bet is that if both were available our captain would be the one getting a start.
Totally agree Chris. NRC has lots of energy, but bugger me, he has no footballing brain whatsoever. He makes the wrong decision more often than he makes the right one, and seems to think he's a much better footballer than he really is. Saying that, I'd quite like to see him next to Bannan, as I think he'd allow wee Bazza to play more football and worry less about the defensive side of things. Petrov's a much better player than NRC, I just do worry about his ability to last a full 90 minutes these days.
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Reo Coker's barely contributed anything to Aston Villa in his career so far. Yep, I'd rather him in the team than Clarke at the moment but to say he's more of a miss than Petrov is confusing to say the least.
Why is that do you think, anything to do with the previous manager?
He's been nearly an ever present until his injury under Houllier and has offered a competitiveness lacking since his exit.
Petrov is just Petrov, and I'm sure any of the kids who have replaced him do as good a job. Clarke has scored and done a sterling job for a cb, Bannan has become a media favourite and a Scottish cap and done more or less all Petrov does.
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Clark is nothing like Platt although he has got an eye for goal. He's more comparable to Barry when he first started...not perfect but can and will improve.
One thing is for sure though, there is nobody else on the team on current form who would have executed that first goal on Saturday the way Clark did. He is a very composed player.
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The new Platt? Nah.
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Clark is nothing like Platt although he has got an eye for goal. He's more comparable to Barry when he first started...not perfect but can and will improve.
One thing is for sure though, there is nobody else on the team on current form who would have executed that first goal on Saturday the way Clark did. He is a very composed player.
Agreed.
He looks more like Barry with every passing game.
Not identical, but shades of Barry's first goal for the club was v Forest at home back in 1998. Reason it sticks in the memory is that it was a very composed finish for a defender - as Clark's was on Saturday.
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The new David Platt... nope!
The new Curly Watts... Maybe (sorry I couldn't resist)
Possibly a new Gareth Southgate, as he has the ability to play at CB and CM!
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Why is that do you think, anything to do with the previous manager?
He's been nearly an ever present until his injury under Houllier and has offered a competitiveness lacking since his exit.
Petrov is just Petrov, and I'm sure any of the kids who have replaced him do as good a job. Clarke has scored and done a sterling job for a cb, Bannan has become a media favourite and a Scottish cap and done more or less all Petrov does.
And yet our results have suffered in his absence. He may not be as flashy or have such distinctive qualities as our other midfielders but he is the glue that keeps them all together. The one player we have who has something approaching a birds-eye view of the game (er, something that can fly but is a bit less mobile/lazier than a bird). I've often been unimpressed with Petrov but his absence has highlighted that he fulfills the ''ticking things over'' role that's actually quite important and crucially, no one else in our squad is that good at doing.
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Tin hat on. I'd quite like to see what the young man can do at left back. He's got a lovely left foot, good in the air, good engine on him, better player than the current left back. Oh, and he's left footed. Any thoughts or am I being silly?
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He's going to be a very good centre half, end of debate.
Be interesting to see where Ireland play him when he's next called up.
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Why is that the end of debate? He could quite easily establish himself in midfield.
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I just think his whole body shape, the way he runs and his positioning suits playing at centre half.
Left sided centre halves don't come along very often and it would give us a great balance.