Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: lovejoy on November 27, 2010, 06:01:12 PM
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After today I see we are 3 points from the relegation zone and the 3rd best team in the city. Wolves and WHam won and we have only won 1 in 8. We have also conceded injury time goals in the last 4 games. Should we start to panic?
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Yup!
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Don't panic Captain Mainwaring! No. We have a bloody major injury crisis but it's only November for Christs sake.
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Fucuuuuuuuuuk offfffffffffffff.
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An unbeaten run such as the one we went on a couple of years ago from the New Year should sort it out.
January window will be interesting - but who will take some of the piss-poor players we want to ship out?
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The only thing that concerns me is the stupid defensive mistakes we keep making. It's not always Dunne either, they've all been guilty over the last few weeks, Warnock, Collins, Young and Friedel too.
Cut those out and that's half the battle won. I'd put Cuellar back in as soon as he's fit again.
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Once we get our players back fit and getting some results, climbing up the table and signing some good players in January we'll be laughing at this thread. It's tough right now, but it's under unfortunate circumstances... you gotta take the highs with the lows, we've yet to experience much highs this season so it can only get better.
It's still early, there are lots of teams worse than us (even teams that are above us).
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Carlos fit and back in training on Monday. A start against the Noses?
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The only thing that concerns me is the stupid defensive mistakes we keep making. It's not always Dunne either, they've all been guilty over the last few weeks, Warnock, Collins, Young and Friedel too.
Cut those out and that's half the battle won. I'd put Cuellar back in as soon as he's fit again.
Spot on, terrible at the back. No concentration, no organisation, leadership. We are very poor back there. I can not believe the difference in the players (Warnock, Dunne and Collins) performance compared to a year ago.
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Not winning, conceding late goals and the supposed wise, experienced heads not putting in a shift are all causes for concern.
As I said in the Post-Match Thread, if we don't get seven points from the next four games, including beating Albion and Wigan, I think it might be time to start getting worried.
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Carlos fit and back in training on Monday. A start against the Noses?
He better 'cos we need him in defence.
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There are worse teams who are more likely to go down. Given time we will be up the league.
However, given the coming fixtures and some of our injuries it will get worse before it gets better. We need to understand that due to certain things that are less than ideal the injuries, our ex-managers ill-timed exit, the time taken to source a replacement and some players lack of professionalism we need to sort things out and that will take some time.
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The posibilty can not be ignored. We are not winning any matches and conceading average 2 per game. These are the hallmarks of a struggling team.
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There are some worrying signs, error ridden defence conceeding plenty of goals, a lightweight midfield, lack of a goal scorer upfront and we are getting into a habit of losing games, i am not panicing yet but a bad result on wednesday and if we go much longer without a league win then we could get dragged into a relegation scrap
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Not a chance.
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i want to know where the goals are going to come from! we are not exactley worrying defences are we!
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Not winning, conceding late goals and the supposed wise, experienced heads not putting in a shift are all causes for concern.
As I said in the Post-Match Thread, if we don't get seven points from the next four games, including beating Albion and Wigan, I think it might be time to start getting worried.
Yeah we had some tough fixtures, these two games are where it matters...
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No, not in the slightest.
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We shouldn't worry, but we shouldn't be complacent either. We're piss-poor at the moment and there are few signs that it's going to get much better any time soon. Some signings will be needed in January, and that should help. Whether we'll do what's necessary in the transfer market remains to be seen. We usually fall short in that department.
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We'll start picking up more points when players come back and the new signings arrive but there may not be much left to play for by then.
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We are in big trouble. I'd love to poach Owen Coyle from Bolton but it looks as though we are stuck with Houllier. We will certainly be bottom 6 but will we be bottom 3? Hmm, well if we don't start scoring goals, playing for the full 95 minutes and stop defending like c*£ts then we will go down.
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We have been extremely unfortunate but there's no escaping the fact that we need to fight for every point now. We need a win from somewhere.... It's a strange season with a lot of teams in transition so a couple of good wins could see us back in contention for Europe as quickly as a few more bad results will leave us deep in the drink....
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I'm normally pessimistic by nature. However, given all the injured players there are to come back and the potential of new signings in January, I think we can expect to avoid relegation and maybe even push for the heights of mid-table mediocrity.
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The problem is that while we have good spells in most matches, we also have dire spells in all. Dire spells in Premier League matches usually translates to goals conceded and points lost. If we can convert the dire spells to not-so-good spells where we, all the same, have defensive control, we will start to pick up (more) points.
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Had a feeling some sort of posting regarding this would come up because some people just have not got a clue. Look at the injuries. Look at how, at times, we've played in these games. Sooner or later the results will come with some of the good play we have shown we are capable of.
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I'm normally optimistic by nature, but can see a relegation fight ahead.
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Not worried by relegation. Severely disappointed about our 2 performances since the promising Man Yoo performance...
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We started the day three points off relegation and three points away from a Europa League place which sums up this seasons Premier League. I'd be more worried if we were in this position with a fully fit squad or even close to one. I would also worry if we hadn't won games like Wolves and Blackpool. We definately need to do the business against Wigan and Albion. Wigan are the worst side in the league for me and we have to make sure Albion have won their quota of big away games for the season.
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Not worried by relegation. Severely disappointed about our 2 performances since the promising Man Yoo performance...
That's just it. People were really pleased after Man U with the way we played. I was terribly disappointed as it was us at our best and we STILL couldn't beat them, even though Man U were at 60% or so. We were never gonna be able to play like that every week and results like this are ineveitable as we are simply not good enough.
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I've had the feeling for a few weeks this season is going to turn out into a bit of an 03/04.
That was O'dreary's first season, we were in the bottom 3 at Xmas and low and behold in May we were 6th.
Obviously the position is not good but I'd be much more worried about someone like Everton who do actually have their first choice 11 more or less out and they seem to be getting worse each game while we still have half of our first 11 to come back.
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It worries me that the youthfulness of the squad is both a liability and a lifeline.
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Had a feeling some sort of posting regarding this would come up because some people just have not got a clue. Look at the injuries. Look at how, at times, we've played in these games. Sooner or later the results will come with some of the good play we have shown we are capable of.
hmm, with the injuries to come back, reo coker petrov and heskey, a rookie in the shape of albrighton and you think we have not got a clue?? I tell you now, we aint v good and there is no shape to us at the moment! The manager that has been appointed needs to be backed seriously in january if we arent to sink like a stone!
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I am not worried about relegation.
I remember two years ago, with the first match of the season being a loss to Stoke and people were acting like the sky was falling.
It didn't.
(well, not until January at least)
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Yes but we can't get any gameplan going, our whole week of changing was probably based around Gabby leading the line today as he did magnificently against Manure so him being ill overnight throws that into turmoil and we get Carew inflicted upon us.
Albrighton was MOM against Manure so playing so well in such a big game would I'd imagine herald a Bale like run of form from him, instead we lose him for 3 weeks.
We can't get any momentum going as we can't even get a consistant 11 out at the minute.
When we can do that for say 5-10 games in a row then I'll judge Houllier properly.
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Yes but we can't get any gameplan going, our whole week of changing was probably based around Gabby leading the line today as he did magnificently against Manure so him being ill overnight throws that into turmoil and we get Carew inflicted upon us.
Albrighton was MOM against Manure so playing so well in such a big game would I'd imagine herald a Bale like run of form from him, instead we lose him for 3 weeks.
We can't get any momentum going as we can't even get a consistant 11 out at the minute.
When we can do that for say 5-10 games in a row then I'll judge Houllier properly.
we cant just bitch about players being out or injured! We are in a bit of shit i think!
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Yes but I'm trying to analyse the reasons why "we are in a bit of shit" instead of just scaremongering.
I expect a minimum of 25 points by the new year (worst case a draw v WBA, beat Sunderland and Wigan and lose all the others) in which case we only need 5 more wins which we will easily manage with the fixture list we have at VP.
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Our run-in at the end of the season looks pretty winnable in general.
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Had a feeling some sort of posting regarding this would come up because some people just have not got a clue. Look at the injuries. Look at how, at times, we've played in these games. Sooner or later the results will come with some of the good play we have shown we are capable of.
To be fair I started the thread to see if the views were mixed, and they are. I am in the "transitional season but there are worse teams than us" camp. I think your post is a little narrow minded. Yes in spell against man U and West Ham we've played well but look at Newcastle, first half today etc we've been crap. The table doesn't lie mate.
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I missed the Everton and West Ham games so I've seen the grand total of one win this season live and I really haven't been impressed with a lot of our play home and away bar an exceptional twenty minutes against Manure and a battling display against Chelsea.
We seem to have gone back to the spell of our last but one unmentionable previous manager when we couldn't dominate games even at home. That and we're too easy to score against, with a weakened central midfield.
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There are a lot of people here I wouldn't want to rely on in a crisis.
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We lost to Arsenal, it's not the end of the world. We'll be alright, especially when the transfer window is open in Jan.
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So you're saying its a crisis?!!
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We're not actually playing 'badly' though, today and Newcastle are the only games where you can say we did not play well. The players are trying, the team is trying - the effort is there, loss of concentration, sloppy defending, conceding late goals and lots of players injured is the reason why we're 15th in the league. When we get our players back, get our act together and not making the same silly mistakes - we'll be fine.
I know it looks a but shit at the moment and yes it's annoying to look back on the Fulham game conceding with litterally the last kick of the game and throwing away that 2-goal lead against United after playing so well, knowing that even if we just drawed one of those games we'd be about 7th right now. Those mistakes are examples now to the players not to do the same thing - it's a harsh punishment but hopefully it pays off in the long term.
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I take my hat off to you. This is what you and I talked about earlier.
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So you're saying its a crisis?!!
No, I'm saying we've had a unique situation where almost everything that could go wrong, hs, for the past three and a bit months. In such circumstances you can either rally round, or come out with panic-stricken idiocy.
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I'm not saying don't rally round I'm just saying we're 15 games in and we're 3 points off relegation. Surely its worth a discussion at least?
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i want to know where the goals are going to come from! we are not exactley worrying defences are we!
Eh?!!! We've scored 7 in our last 3 home games for a start.
The problem is a weakened central midfield meaning more pressure on the back 4 which is making errors aplenty.
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There are a lot of people here I wouldn't want to rely on in a crisis.
There are a lot of people in the squad I wouldn't want to rely on in a crisis, hence the thread.
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As soon as we get some players back and playing regularly, I'll feel a lot more confident. As it is, the table looks concerning.
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Ask again in a months time when were sat in 8th and comfortably clear. This poll was always likely to get a poor reaction after today.
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Ask again in a months time when were sat in 8th and comfortably clear. This poll was always likely to get a poor reaction after today.
While I'm optimstic we'll have a good recovery in the second half of the season, I can't quite seeing us 8th in a months time as we have Man. City, Chelsea and Liverpool away which we'll do well to get even 1 point from those three on what we're showing away from home currently and we also have Spurs at VP.
The only two games I see as winnable are WBA at home and Wigan away. We have to get minimum 4 points from those two. I'd be happy with some draws from the other games.
The table won't look healthy for us until around March time I predict.
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Not at all. I'm not being cocky or over confident, but despite how difficult it has been, two or three wins puts you in the top 6. We've led in a number of games where we should have seen things through and while they are big "ifs", it tells you the margin between where we are and where we probably should be on the balance of things. We can't change that, but unless there was a memo stating that the league season was now ending in December, I'm sure by May we'll much better, and comfortably safe.
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It's remarkable to me how some posters believe that with all the injuries we have and not having any sort of settled side for the last few weeks we should still be playing like a top side. We were short of players at the start of the season thanks to MON and this season was always going to be a struggle, injuries have compounded the problem but settle down look at the players to come back in, accept that the next three or four weeks won't be great but look forward to the new year.
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Yes we should be worried.
No, we shouldn't go down - but that is contingent on some changes in January as a result of injured players coming back and some judicious signings / offloadings.
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I am not worried about relegation.
I remember two years ago, with the first match of the season being a loss to Stoke and people were acting like the sky was falling.
It didn't.
(well, not until January at least)
well, you have the advantage on me - I don't remember opening a season with a game against the Stokies.
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The other thing to consider is how quickly things can change in this league. A couple of seasons back we were miles ahead of Arsenal in the race for 4th, and ended up a good ways behind by the end. It doesn't take much at all for things to suddenly click, and everything to change. If anyone honestly believes Bolton and Blackpool will be where they are come March, then you need your head looking at. The PL is a slog, and generally good teams stay good teams. I expect both us and Everton to be in the top 6 to 8 positions by the end.
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Neither do I.
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I mentioned the 'r' word in the pre-match thread yesterday.
I think we need to be judged after the Man Yoo game on 1st February. By which time the transfer window will be closed (except to Spurzzz and Arsenal) and we will have our current injured players back.
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We won't go down but we'll be in a relegation battle. We'll be right in the shit after the Chelsea game in january.
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BTW I'd be more worried if I was an Everton fan at the moment as they actually for once have their first 11 out more or less and they seem to be getting worse each game while we still have loads of our reguylar players to come back.
If there's one manager in this league who needs a change of scene, it's David Moyes.
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Well I hope GH has some aces up his sleeve for the transfer window coz I am worried. But then again we should have our injured stars back soon like..Petrov (legs gone) NRC (cant pass or score when through on the keeper) Sidwell ( cant even impersonate a footballer) and the goal machine that is Emile. Bright future ? Maybe in the Championship. The performances in the last week were that bad.
Wake up and smell the coffee indeed.
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We're fucked for now really. But once we get players back and have had the benefit of 2-3 signings, then I think we can find some form and go on a run. We'll probably end up mid-table.
However, the scary scenario is, we go on a piss poor run now and it's the sort of thing that's hard to shake off, as Newcastle found. So no matter what standard the squad, sometimes when you hit a bad run, pulling out of it takes a lot.
I would say at least though, because the side is so young in areas and we've had so many injuries, there's not really so much expectation or pressure on us. Certainly no one here (I hope) is gonna start getting on the backs of the local lads trying their best. But this is deep end time. Clark had a good game today, but he could have a mare next game up. Bannan's hit a brick wall in the last couple of games too. But they'll get the benefit of doubt.
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The difference with us and Newcastle is that it was a complete joke behind the scenes with everyone back stabbing each other. We don't have that at Villa, and we have amongst the most unified set ups in all areas of the club. Adversity makes you stronger, and we have some of the most experienced heads around to get us through this.
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Yes we should, several more defeats and we will be far behind those above us and with the next few games coming it could happen, that small gap to freedom could become too big.
Plus the returning players aren't going to be up for it as Carew and Collins showed today, as Gabby has when he came back. We don't have a pre season to get them warmed up, its bring em in even if they are on crutches, at the moment, how daft is that.
Then of course we have Mr negative himself. He's about as inspiring as a wet, stale doughnut on a cold day. If you were a player would you be inspired by a bloke who picks that team, those tactics today.
Then his main excuse afterwards. Arsenal were a far better side and we had several injuries, but that's football, sometimes its like that. Reminded me of Marvin the Paranoid Robot.
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?
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Gabby was excellent for 70 minutes against Manure though.
Ah good another manager Malcolm hates, didn't take him long.
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don't think about it. You'll hurt yourself trying to figure him out.
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Rejoice!
The Riddler Returns.
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The username `Mr Negative himself' already exists. Please try again
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When we have a defence as poor as we do, led by Richard Dunne who is as mobile as an oil rig, we should be worried.
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You know what's weird? The worse Villa do, the more I get the bug to get myself down VP again. Haven't been this season due to lack of money and generally being more busy than I expected, but I'm going to make the effort come January.
When we're doing well I'm quite content to watch on the box.
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We will be fine, but we do need to start picking up some points quickly.
I notice that Big Sam went straight for the injury card today in his post-match interview. Full credit again to Gerrard for not blaming the injuries and only mentioning it in response to a question.
We need to be patient and give him time, he will get things right.
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You know what's weird? The worse Villa do, the more I get the bug to get myself down VP again.
It's strange, isn't it. It's not like following the Villa unless it's backs to the wall. I actually think that if we won games 2-0 I would lose interest completely
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You know what's weird? The worse Villa do, the more I get the bug to get myself down VP again.
It's strange, isn't it. It's not like following the Villa unless it's backs to the wall. I actually think that if we won games 2-0 I would lose interest completely
it's at times like this that we "all Villa everywhere" need to be rallying together. Instead, look around this place as an example a lot of people would rather have the knives out. I know things aren't great, but you'd think it was April and are were 10 points adrift from some of the posts.
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In most of my years following the Villa, defying the expectation of failure was the closest we got to a sense of triumph. It's a funny thing to get nostalgic for, but there it is.
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The fact we've only won 11 league games this year is a sign that we could well be closer to relegation then we'd like.
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It's a bit depressing at the moment, but really, FFS .. relegation?
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It genuinely hadn't crossed my mind until I saw this thread.
And it's not something I'm going to give much more thought to. If we still in the bottom six in March then I'll start to worry a bit more. But we won't be, so I won't.
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i dont think so. but lets see.
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It worries me that the youthfulness of the squad is both a liability and a lifeline.
I think it's only a liability when we have to play a number of them together week in /week out due to injuries. And even then they have done well and it should stand them in good stead for the future. Someone else said the league table doesn't lie. I don't think it does at the end of the season but it does at this time of year, especially this year. In a few weeks we have gone from top six to bottom six and Bolton have gone the other way. Blackpool and Albion had gone from qualifying for the champions league to a relegation battle before today. Things will improve when we get injured players back but we also all know we need to buy too. Basically I don't think we will finish in the top six or the bottom six. Put away the passports AND the maps for championship grounds.
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A massive part of the answer revolves about who we buy in Jan and if we keep our top three players (they are debateable) cause dont think even some of our injured players are going to change that much in the team ........
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We should worry about relegation, I don't think we'll go down, but to be almost half way through the season and only be sitting 3points ahead of the drop zone means we have to worry.
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It worries me that the youthfulness of the squad is both a liability and a lifeline.
Thing is it's not the young players who are costing us points.
It's the doughnuts at the back - all experienced pros- who are sinking our boat at present.
It's virtually the same personnel as last season in the backline, yet last year we seemed to possess the ability to grind out a result. We rarely (if ever) looked composed in doing so, it was often ugly, all hands to the pump desperate defending. But we got over the line.
This year we look vulnerable pretty much anytime the ball comes down the flanks or in our third.
I bought into the notion that we were one, maybe two players away from having a really good side at the start of the season. A midfielder and forward, as many others said. But with each passing game I think the focus of any transfer activity should be on the backline as a matter of urgency.
A decent defensive midfielder would also help us, no question. But there are only so many times you can see experienced pro's bump into each other (as per Dunne and Collins v Blackpool and Man U and Luke Young and Collins yesterday) before you reach the conclusion that they are either declining in sharpness or taking the piss, thinking cruise control is OK as 'this season is a write off' (c)
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Yes but we can't get any gameplan going, our whole week of changing was probably based around Gabby leading the line today as he did magnificently against Manure so him being ill overnight throws that into turmoil and we get Carew inflicted upon us.
Albrighton was MOM against Manure so playing so well in such a big game would I'd imagine herald a Bale like run of form from him, instead we lose him for 3 weeks.
We can't get any momentum going as we can't even get a consistant 11 out at the minute.
When we can do that for say 5-10 games in a row then I'll judge Houllier properly.
we cant just bitch about players being out or injured! We are in a bit of shit i think!
That's what I said yesterday, We do have an injury crisis but there are some good players out there, minus Cuellar that was a first choice back 5. They are making mistakes left right and centre, look at Arsenals first goal yesterday bad play by two experienced players, Friedel & Warnock are becoming liabilities.
We have nothing up front Agbonlahor has been injured & Carew looks like a bag of shit, Heskey is injury prone anyway. We have to back the manager in Jan, I don't want to blame him I think we have to give the man a chance! We better start getting some results and quick and stop conceding silly sloppy goals, this reminds me of that run under O'neill
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We should worry about relegation, I don't think we'll go down, but to be almost half way through the season and only be sitting 3points ahead of the drop zone means we have to worry.
and three points off 7th.
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no fookin chance.. yes we have a team with some of MON crap that needs shipping out and players just come out of nurseries but Jan will be upon us and a few players coming back fit, and we will be ok.. im looking forward to the next few seasons actually...
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No.
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If the seniors in the squad continue to under perform we are more
likely to drop further (bottom 3 at Xmas ?)
If perception is correct that certain players aren't pulling their
weight - let's get rid if possible and allow GH the opportunity
to bring in his type of player -
Relegation ? ...............dire consequences but the warning signs
are there and we shouldn't believe it can't happen to us
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My only worry is that i'm not sure GH is the same type of motivator that MON was.
It could get worse before it's get's better, but a win on Wednesday may well give us the boost we need. I think though, we may have to settle for mid-table this season and wait to see what GH does in the summer.
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It worries me that the youthfulness of the squad is both a liability and a lifeline.
Thing is it's not the young players who are costing us points.
It's the doughnuts at the back - all experienced pros- who are sinking our boat at present.
It's virtually the same personnel as last season in the backline, yet last year we seemed to possess the ability to grind out a result. We rarely (if ever) looked composed in doing so, it was often ugly, all hands to the pump desperate defending. But we got over the line.
This year we look vulnerable pretty much anytime the ball comes down the flanks or in our third.
I bought into the notion that we were one, maybe two players away from having a really good side at the start of the season. A midfielder and forward, as many others said. But with each passing game I think the focus of any transfer activity should be on the backline as a matter of urgency.
A decent defensive midfielder would also help us, no question. But there are only so many times you can see experienced pro's bump into each other (as per Dunne and Collins v Blackpool and Man U and Luke Young and Collins yesterday) before you reach the conclusion that they are either declining in sharpness or taking the piss, thinking cruise control is OK as 'this season is a write off' (c)
Its looking like the Keystone Kops at defense, they are all over the place, no leadership, Dunnne being done for pace all the time, Friedel making too many basic mistakes, Warnock wimping out and positionaly awful, L Young has been pretty consistant> I agree attention to the defence is becoming imperative.
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I don't think we'll go down and although we're a soft touch at the moment there are so many extenuating circumstances it's impossible to make any sort of informed assessment.
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Looking at it there are a few teams who look clearly worse than us (Wigan, West Ham, Wolves, Fulham and Everton) and unlike us they don't have the excuse of injuries.
We desperately need to sort that defence out by dropping a few players who are being utterly diabolical. Also I can't help but thinking we lack a coach who played in defence rather than two midfield playmakers. Maybe we should appoint a specific defensive coach.
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I'm not worried about the R word i think when the injured players come back we will be ok.
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No chance of Relegation.
When we get Gabby and Albrighton back we'll win some games. Until then we'll continue to struggle.
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The only thing that concerns me is the stupid defensive mistakes we keep making. It's not always Dunne either, they've all been guilty over the last few weeks, Warnock, Collins, Young and Friedel too.
Cut those out and that's half the battle won. I'd put Cuellar back in as soon as he's fit again.
This ^.
I thought Dunney had a bit of mare yesterday.
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Love this talk of dropping defenders, love to know who would replace them ?
No team is too good for relegation, only teams that think they are.
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I don't think that we should be really worried about relegation.
If only we had the 4 more points that we would have deserved with Man. United and Fulham we'd be facing the 6th spot.
We had too many injuries and hit too many posts and bar since here.
The problem is that we must bear the heavy heritage of MON: 4 unwatchable, and overpaid, defenders (those who played yesterday) and one over paid, useless, striker like John Carew.
When he was in charge, MON had three columns in his team: Agbonlahor, Milner and Petrov. This season GH could count on none of them for various reasons, but in these difficult conditions he made a very good job launching 4 excellent youngsters: Bannan, Albrighton, Hogg and Clark.
When Gabby and Al will come back, I think that we'll climb various positions in the table, and if we signed two players in the January market-window we could aspire to the 6-7 th spot.
In any case, even at worst, we are stronger than West Ham, WBA, Wolves, Wigan (luckily Aston Villa don't begin for "W") . . . and Fulham.
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Love this talk of dropping defenders, love to know who would replace them ?
Easy. Cuellar in for Dunne when he's fit or drop Clark back when NRC is fit. Luke Young to move across to left back (he generally did quite well there) to replace Warnock with Lichaj coming in on the right.
There are a few other permutations possible too.
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BTW I'd be more worried if I was an Everton fan at the moment as they actually for once have their first 11 out more or less and they seem to be getting worse each game while we still have loads of our reguylar players to come back.
If there's one manager in this league who needs a change of scene, it's David Moyes.
Is that the David Moyes who is 100 times better a manager than MON and most people were desperate to see him managing Villa?
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If we get relegated we would probably be the best team in the history of the Premier League to do so. There is absolutely no chance of this happening, none whatsoever. Once we get our injured players fit again, maybe make a signing or two in Jan, we'll storm up the league like nobody's business.
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Take milner out of last seasons team and we would have been mid- table, o neill has left behind a squad of average players in the main who aren't good enough to play the pass and move style that houllier prefers.
In houllier we have a manager who will take us further than o neill did but we won't see the benefits until he has had a yr in the job to change things around- it will improve , of that I am certain.
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Alternatively we are now seeing what a good manager MON was in getting the maximum out of the squad he had, same thing happened when Sir Graham went to manage England.
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Only problem with that comparison is that Graham Taylor wasn't given four years and virtually a free hand in the transfer market to shape the team exactly how he wanted it.
Graham Taylor didn't outspend Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and most of the other clubs who finished in and around where we did in 89/90 either.
Apart from that, it's exactly the same.
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And it must be stated that Dr Jo didn't face an injury ravaged squad or have no time to bring in his own players.
We'll see where we are at this time next year.
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Apart from O'Neill and Taylor both being very good managers.
Not quite the land of milk and honey this season is it ?
But let's all put our head in the sand and pray for January and NRC to come back.
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Had a feeling some sort of posting regarding this would come up because some people just have not got a clue. Look at the injuries. Look at how, at times, we've played in these games. Sooner or later the results will come with some of the good play we have shown we are capable of.
hmm, with the injuries to come back, reo coker petrov and heskey, a rookie in the shape of albrighton and you think we have not got a clue?? I tell you now, we aint v good and there is no shape to us at the moment! The manager that has been appointed needs to be backed seriously in january if we arent to sink like a stone!
Totally agree
We missed gabby most of all yesterday but apart from that do people honestly think that if petrov, NRC and Albrighton had played we would have got a result?
The first half was one of the most one sided I have ever seen in 35 odd years and tactical ineptitude at its very best.
Should we be worried - yes Liverpool away, baggies at home, man city and spuds over xmas
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Fancy us to beat Spurs, oddly enough.
The Christmas period normally throws up a few surprise results and that will be one of them. Sad state of affairs when a win against that shower would now be seen as a surprise result but there you go.
Our chances of getting something at Anfield might also have improved after Carragher's injury today. No Gerrard for them either.
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New thread started.
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I dont think we are in relegation trouble just yet but I also dont think we should not realise it far too easy to slip into the mire. I really do believe when we get some of our more senior players back especially forwards and maybe get a couple of new ones in we will be ok. I do now find myself looking down the table and not what I prefer and normally do in looking up to where 3 points would take us.
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9th.
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The young 'uns did their best yesterday but sooner we get the injuries back the better. Our team is looking nothing like what I would be barring injuries. Glad to see CC back on Mon.
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23 points from the remaining 23 games means the 40 point "usual" safety mark. Winning 7 games is therefore the probable requirment. They need to do 7 times what so far they have done just 4 times.
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Yes but we can't get any gameplan going, our whole week of changing was probably based around Gabby leading the line today as he did magnificently against Manure so him being ill overnight throws that into turmoil and we get Carew inflicted upon us.
Albrighton was MOM against Manure so playing so well in such a big game would I'd imagine herald a Bale like run of form from him, instead we lose him for 3 weeks.
We can't get any momentum going as we can't even get a consistant 11 out at the minute.
When we can do that for say 5-10 games in a row then I'll judge Houllier properly.
we cant just bitch about players being out or injured! We are in a bit of shit i think!
That's what I said yesterday, We do have an injury crisis but there are some good players out there, minus Cuellar that was a first choice back 5. They are making mistakes left right and centre, look at Arsenals first goal yesterday bad play by two experienced players, Friedel & Warnock are becoming liabilities.
We have nothing up front Agbonlahor has been injured & Carew looks like a bag of shit, Heskey is injury prone anyway. We have to back the manager in Jan, I don't want to blame him I think we have to give the man a chance! We better start getting some results and quick and stop conceding silly sloppy goals, this reminds me of that run under O'neill
We were keeping clean sheets and not conceding many with a bit more experience in central midfield e.g. NRC and Petrov.
I think that's the key at the minute.
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Of course not. If you get worried about something as unlikely as that then you are approaching paranoia. Start researching for a half-decent shrink right now.
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We're 15th. We're in it now. But, we might not be come May.
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One (very good) win and we'd be 7th. One regular win would have us 9th.
No problem.
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I think that given our league position and current form it would be complacent not to acknowledge we are in a precarious position. Doing so might actually makes you concentrate more on the points/position than the 'transitional phase', which would be correct right now.
But ultimately I don't think we'll be in any real danger.
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not worried,
we are only 3 points away from the relegation zone, and 3 points away from joint 7th, so its all very tight,
we have far better players than teams that will be scrapping it out at the end of the season,
i think we'l finish comfortably in the top half
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We won't even be close to a relegation scrap.
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I think we will be fine and with a few new faces and the injured players to return we will finish in 10th spot.
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We should worry about relegation as much as Legion should worry about how to spend his Lottery winnings.
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I think we will be okay but if you look at our last 9 league games:
Won: 1
Drawn:4
Lost:4
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After tonight, if Dunne continues to play then yes.
Honestly it has nothing to do with injuries, even with everyone back, our defence is still truly shocking.
Cueller has to play with Collins.
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Warnock and dunne have been poor this season, friedal is past his best , I'd like to see cuellar back in centre defence but houllier needs to being in maybe 3 players in January, we are weak in too many areas , not his fault he interited this squad but he needs time to change things.
Shows how much milner made a difference to our team!
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Teams too good to go down have gone down before.
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there must be changes freidel is past it ,Laurel &Hardy at the back are liabilities if these 3 keep playing then championship footy beckons,,we need pride and passion----clearly not displayed,Carlos must play and if Clark cannot be replaced in midfield get Curtis Davies back from Sven ----otherwise we will be down with the dodo,s the coffee is smelling of a relegation battle-points NOT posession matter, this needs turning round dam soon.
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I think Friedel would be far better if he had a solid pairing in front of him. We should start looking at a replacement next summer though.
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Gh has a massive job to do in the summer as let's be honest the following will need to be replaced:
friedel
dunne
petrov
carew
heskey
sidwell
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We'll be ok,as we're not playing too bad,and there are worse teams in the league. I would get Cuellar in for Dunne as most people have said. NRC in the middle will strengthen the midfield,even Ivanhoe will add a bit more as well. Once Gab is up to full speed as well,I was impressed with him last night,were missing Albrighton's quality from the right as well.
A couple of new faces in the transfer window will add to the team also,I am a little worried how shakey the defence is looking at the minute,Dunne definetley need to be dropped.
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No we shouldnt. A quality striker in Jan and we'l be fine.
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We have a number of players out injured and are having no luck at the moment. Think we'll be okay in the long run.
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I think we should be very worried right now.
Have you seen the fixtures after the West Brom game :(
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If Paulie's prediction on the liverpool v Villa pre-match thread of 2 points between now and the new year is correct, I'll be more than a little bit worried.
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Leeds and Newcastle were both too good to go down.
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If Paulie's prediction on the liverpool v Villa pre-match thread of 2 points between now and the new year is correct, I'll be more than a little bit worried.
I agree. And then we have Chelsea on Jan 2nd so no points there either. Then we really will be in the shit.
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We need to get some points on the board but I don't really see where from in the short to medium term. As I've said before it will get worse before it gets better but I do expect us to turn things around after that.
Points from the Scousers and Throstles would be nice but I'm not too sure about either.
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The problem is settling into a culture of losing. That's what we had towards the end of DOL's reign. I expect a loss tonight, but if we let the stripeys do us, the habit of losing will be hard to break. We simply have to bring players in during the window. New players with new attitudes.
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Should we worry about relegation?
Nope, if Pardew takes over Newcastle...
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We need 4 points from the Wigan and baggies game to make things look a bit more comfortable but this is a very depressing end to a year that promised so much isn't it?!
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After tonight ? Seriously ?
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Yes
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Let's pray Randy has some cash ready for January.
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He will.
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I want to change my vote.
If something doesn't improve, tremendously, then yes.
I don't see how returning players are going to change it that much either
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We are far from being good enough to stay up.
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Remember the good old days of having threads ripping into Liverpool being in crisis and heading for relegation? If only we'd have known
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If performances continue like this, yes.
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Id take guaranteed 17th end of season right now.
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He will.
He might.
But if we look all set for a relegation skirmish which decent players will want to join us? It will be Piquionne or similar.
On the plus side, we might actually win a trophy in the Championship.
Could be wrong but I think they still use the same trophy Mortimer picked up in 1981.
It will be nice to be re-acquainted with it again.
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Fuck - yes. Big rumours about unrest in the camp.
Their body language shows they don't give a shit.
We're in trouble.
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I can't see where our next win is coming from, let alone a point.
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Anyone watching that can't tell me were not in trouble
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We looked a team heading for relegation tonight. There are no arguments.
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Oh well. At least the ticket prices will be cheaper in the championship.
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we are in deep shit, our manager wishes he was managing liverpool,
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The harsh truth is that our biggest games of the season now are against W teams, call them what you will "6 pointers" or "must wins". This is the new reality we have to face up to.
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we are in deep shit, our manager wishes he was managing liverpool,
Right now, I wish he was as well.
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Look out down below!
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Was a shit liverpool side as well
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Panic button officially pushed. We're in deep shit.
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no, as long as houlier is sacked. Secret agent brought in to prevent liverpool going down!
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Goin down my lord....
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With performances like that and players like we have I think I might want to change my vote.
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This reminds me of the Billy McDuff era, we are in serious shit!! Players dont seem to care and when that happens the club is only heading one way.
We need to get a minimum of 4 points out of our next 2 games, but in all honesty I cannot see that happening.
I said to my mate the other day that the only reason that we would not be relegated is that there are 3 worse teams than us in the division, but after watching that lot tonight I am not so sure know.
Where is the over my dead body philosophy, it seems that the players are happy to be picking up there £40k a week and could not care less.
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we are definately one of the teams that look vulnerable, the bigest problem is that we do not look up for the fight yet a lot of teams with less ability have a spirit that we dont posess probably because they began the season knowing that they were in that battle
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Take a look at the results from Newcastle's relegation season. I reckon they're not unlike ours this season so far.
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the bigest problem is that we do not look up for the fight
Have to agree, even when everyone is on form we haven't got many fighters.
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Take a look at the results from Newcastle's relegation season. I reckon they're not unlike ours this season so far.
Villa last season
4 Aston Villa 16 8 5 3 26 14 +12 29
Man City this season
4 Man City 16 8 5 3 21 12 +9 29
Villa this season
16 Aston Villa 16 4 5 7 17 27 -10 17
Newcastle 2008/9
17 Newcastle United 16 3 7 6 19 24 -5 16
I'm not so much worried as depressed.
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Take a look at the results from Newcastle's relegation season. I reckon they're not unlike ours this season so far.
Villa last season
4 Aston Villa 16 8 5 3 26 14 +12 29
Man City this season
4 Man City 16 8 5 3 21 12 +9 29
Villa this season
16 Aston Villa 16 4 5 7 17 27 -10 17
Newcastle 2008/9
17 Newcastle United 16 3 7 6 19 24 -5 16
I'm not so much worried as depressed.
It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to have been so accurate.
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Take a look at the results from Newcastle's relegation season. I reckon they're not unlike ours this season so far.
Villa last season
4 Aston Villa 16 8 5 3 26 14 +12 29
Man City this season
4 Man City 16 8 5 3 21 12 +9 29
Villa this season
16 Aston Villa 16 4 5 7 17 27 -10 17
Newcastle 2008/9
17 Newcastle United 16 3 7 6 19 24 -5 16
I'm not so much worried as depressed.
That is frightening to see how far we've fallen in such a short time.
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We've conceded more and scored fewer goals too :(
I don't recall Newcastle getting raped up the arse by some midtable team 6-0 either.
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Before I thought of course not. Now I'm not so sure.
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Before I thought of course not. Now I'm not so sure.
Make yer mind up ;-)
Yes I say - YES.
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Holy cow we are bad....I'm so worried after that performance tonight :(
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Cannot except we are relegation material just yet, but come sat night that could change .......
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We're 2 above the relegation places so yes we are.
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I predicted a 3-0 loss tonight and still I believed we'd be safe. Having seen my prediction come true I am really worried. One thing is for sure, we won't be anywhere near the level we achieved under MON, whatever his detractors say. Yes we should be worried. We are awful and our manager is a clown.
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I am an old man. Trust me, we are in the relegation bunfight.
And after the 'performance' last night, which reminded me of the first half against Arsenal, we seem devoid of ideas, lack confidence, passion and any tactical nouse. We don't defend, can't mount a telling threat and have no guile or guts in midfield.
It is not all about the players is it? Most of those failings are the job of management to resolve.
I am not even convinced about the injury list excuse in that the youngsters have been excellent at times. Better than the senior players. Ok I miss Petrov more than I thought I would as he is a protector for our suddenly porous back line.
Sorry, but Houllier has lost it for me. Already, and I supported the appointment.
We will be struggling to avoid the drop and I am not convinced we will.
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Yes - no team is ever too good to go down, and we are not too good on present form.
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do the pole again......
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You can still get 10 / 1 with most bookies that we go down.
Very big odds considering the state of our last few "performances"
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Cannot except we are relegation material just yet, but come sat night that could change .......
Houllier seems to disagree with you.
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The problem will now be motivating out of form players to do enough to battle our way out of the mire, even when, or more especially when the better players return.
Does Houllier strike you as that sort of manager.
Thought not
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If we lose on Saturday, I think we're in serious doo doo.
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If we lose on Saturday, I think we're in serious doo doo.
What he said.
I never expected much out of last night, even with the injuries to Liverpool. The acid test is this weekend. The Stripey Filth are still in form and if we are to show any signs of coming back to life, then this is a must win. Lose this one and injuries or not, I really fear for us.
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do the pole again......
I've got a groin strain.
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do the pole again......
I've got a groin strain.
Who are you more worried about Dave, Tamworth or the Villa ?
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Who are you more worried about Dave, Tamworth or the Villa ?
Villa.
Tamworth fully expected to be in a position where they might, given a bit of luck and four teams even worse than them, scrape to safety. We don't get decent crowds, we don't attract sponsorship, most people in Tamworth don't give a fuck about the team except to check the result in The Herald on a Thursday!
Relegation isn't something many Tamworth fans worry that much about, we quite like Conf North as well.
Villa? Well you know about Villa and what relegation might (only might, we could bounce back stronger) mean.
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Must seem a while ago since Tamworth needed a win to go top.
A bit Villa having a good defence, was that only 7 months ago.
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A bit Villa having a good defence, was that only 7 months ago?
Yes - and with the same players.
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A bit Villa having a good defence, was that only 7 months ago?
Yes - and with the same players.
The irony being with the people's choice at right back.
They can't all have turned shit over the summer holidays, what are they/we doing different this year ?
This defence needs to be worked on, it's too easy to just buy another one, that's the whole point of coaching.
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This defence needs to be worked on, it's too easy to just buy another one, that's the whole point of coaching.
Exactly. We were all raving about the Dunne/Collins partnership this time last year.
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I dont think Villa will get relegated as there are worse teams than them like wigan, west ham, wolves etc... I watched the game against the rags and you completely outplayed them, get that form back and you will be fine.
As for Dunne, he has always been a liability, at City, we could always rely on him to score an own goal or give away a penalty. He always seemed to do it at crucial times as well.
How has Ireland been playing btw?
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Ireland has been terrible. Shown glimpses of what we thought he was capable of, but that's about it.
Dunne has been gaffe prone this season, something we only saw once or twice last year, when to be fair he was excellent. Some are saying he is over-weight this season, I'm not so sure about that, but he's certianly not playing like he did last year.
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Dunny has always been a bit rotund shall we say, but was quick and liked a good tackle. It just seemed at City, whenever he made a mistake it cost us big time.
Ireland is becoming something of an enigma, one of the most talented players I have seen, he just seems to have fallen out of love with football. I did think he would be a good signing for Villa and was sorry to see him leave City.
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We could get dragged into it if we dont get the back 4 sorted out! they dont communicate with each other any more and the marking is shocking,every set piece against us looks like a goal
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Take a look at the results from Newcastle's relegation season. I reckon they're not unlike ours this season so far.
Villa last season
4 Aston Villa 16 8 5 3 26 14 +12 29
Man City this season
4 Man City 16 8 5 3 21 12 +9 29
Villa this season
16 Aston Villa 16 4 5 7 17 27 -10 17
Newcastle 2008/9
17 Newcastle United 16 3 7 6 19 24 -5 16
I'm not so much worried as depressed.
It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to have been so accurate.
What's pretty worrying is that Newcastle went on to win their next two league games that season so actually had 22 points from 18 games and still got relegated. Hmmmm.
I think it just shows how quickly things can change in football.
If Spurs can go in two years from "bottom with 2 points from 8 games" to conquering all before them in the champions league, then we can certainly decline.
A year ago this upcoming weekend we were winning at Old Trafford for the first time since the 80s. Currently I wouldn't be confident of beating FC United.
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What is worrying is how can they get out of the poor run in the medium to long term.
Will the return of the injured players to a disjointed dispirited team help enough, when our main cause of failure is conceding silly goals and not finishing chances created.
There are enough teams poorer than us for us to avoid the drop as long as we can put together a few games where we don't lose but the longer the losses go on the poorer moral will get and the harder it will be for Ged to turn it around.
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If it was Gabby, Downing and Ash to return I would be happier, as it's NRC, Petrov and Heskey, yes they are good players, but they have bore the brunt of the Villa fans at various stages and are not exactly world beaters. They are neither matchwinners/goalscorers nor towering centre halves, so may not help our problems at either end much at all. Frankly I have found it refreshing seeing Bannan in the team ahead of 1 of Petrov and NRC.