Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on November 26, 2010, 09:28:44 PM
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Available Saturday afternoon.
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Fuck it....
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Houllier must be in the Guinness Book of Records for injury-time goals.
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Well that first half followed on a series of bad first half performances and was one of the poorest I've ever seen. We cannot play like we did in the first half and expect to get anything. Played better in the second half and at least tried to fight. Ireland was decent when he came on. Warnock and Carew were fucking abysmal.
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Infuriating. Urgh.
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Diabolical first half, just-about-passable second. If anyone needed more evidence as to the work GH has to do to rebuild the squad, then today showed it.
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Well, that was painful wasn't it. Bit like having your wisdom teeth taken out with a hand grenade, you know it's going to be painful. The real pain will kick in when we play the knuckledraggers, though, because that's a game this bunch will never find the balls to win. Hope it's snowed off.
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Actually - why even bother playing overpaid primadonnas when we got a youth setup that really show what it takes... when Carew went off, everything went better...No Carew No Ireland and we would have won
Ciaran :) i like you ....and all you Young bashers..he did actually put in a hard work (so did Downing)
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saying no Ireland and we would have won is a joke, surely. He came on and made a difference with some good passes and getting involved.
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Can't afford to carry Carew in games like this.
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Can't see where our next win or even our next point is going to come from, Houllier has a lot of work to do, and I'm really getting pissed off with Ashley Young atm, some of his performances have been dire.
At least Bannan, Clark and Delfouneso showed the energy and fight needed if we're going to do anything this season, and Luke Young was once again his normal consistent self.
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saying no Ireland and we would have won is a joke, surely. He came on and made a difference with some good passes and getting involved.
Indeed, thought Ireland was ok when he came on, though couldn't really work out why he spent much of injury time in our own half rather than on the edge of their box. The few times we did get the ball at the end, we seemed to punt it aimlessly and get nowhere near having the ball in their half. At least the lads tried second half, and I consider the 4th goal they scored irrelevant.
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Missed the game but I'm kinda worried about how long ago Houllier wrote-off this season. When he signed the contract was there an agreement with Lerner that Champs League/top 6 was off the agenda for the forseeable?
Cos, all excuses aside, that's how we've been playing all season. Say what you want about MON's inability to win games at home but we were always (Chelsea 7-1 excepted) a difficult side to beat. We've become very soft.
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Luke Young was once again his normal consistent self.
Barring the awful mix-up for their second.
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Very lucky to ONLY lose 4-2. They were so much better than us it was embarassing to watch at times and really it should have been 6 or 7.
Arsenal are crap at the back, everytime we attacked them they looked like conceding so why did we allow them to dominate and take the piss? Even when we made it 2-1 and 3-2 we then did fuck all else and didn't trouble them. I don't care how good they were, we allowed them to be. No passion, no fight, but most of all no quality. There is a distinct lack of it in our team and squad and whether we like it or not we're going to be in a relegation battle, we look very poor and very limited and i don't think anyone we've got out injured will make a difference.
Our defence is laughably bad, keystone cops stuff from them. All it takes is one ball and they part like the red sea, they're all over the shop.
Dreading the Blues game, no way are we going to win that.
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Lucky to loose only by 4-2..?
My point being is that heart has all to do. Ireland didn't have any, so did Carew.
When we put our young ones out we played much better - on that basis we should have won (i know individual mistakes etc...)
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I hate to say it, but after today's game I think that we are lucky that Wolverhampton, West Ham and probably either WBA or Wigan are in our league or we might be feeling the relegation heat.
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This 4-4-1-1 thing doesn't work for us right now. We need to do a straight up 4-3-3, or a 4-4-2.
Of course, all aside, the squad is so stretched at the moment, that we have to expect a twatting against the likes of Arsenal.
Houllier's ideas are good in principle, but he just doesn't have the squad in place, and will need a season. Trouble is we don't look relegation proof. I'm confident with everyone back though, that we'll be safe. However with our record this season, who's to say how many more players go in and out of the treatment rooms.
Depressing. I might retire from football fandom until January. Urgh.
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Luke Young was once again his normal consistent self.
Barring the awful mix-up for their second.
It was for their first, which makes it worse.
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I really don't see the point of Carew anymore,i know he's just got over an injury,but he just lumbers around fouling and doing nothing else. May as well start with the Fonz,at least he's got a bit of pace to stretch the opponents defence. Can't believe we let them have so much time and space,especially in the first half.
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Carew Pires Downing Warnock por, A Young frustrating, our defence is pourus,
Clark Bannan were excellent again Ireland Ok when he came on
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It was for their first, which makes it worse.
I stand corrected, you're right.
January can't come soon enough. I'd say that plans to hold off on any major investment in the summer might be revised due to our current plight
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What is our heaviest ever defeat to SHA?
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Yikes what to say.
For a start we were set up very badly. Pires was lost, his legs are gone. Maybe ten minutes from time bring him on but not start. We cannot start Carew up front on his own again either. To be honest Id nearly write those two off to the knackers yard. Lets take nothing away from Arsenal. Nasri and in particular Arshavin were mesmeric. Havent seen Rosicky play that well in years either. Bannan was really left looking like a boy today, will have been a tough experience for him but if he wants to make it as a centre midfielder he will have to learn how to win a ball. Our full backs were torn apart. Neither of our centre halves were at their best today but they had zero protection really. Even Clark with his two goals struggled I thought. What Houllier must do is play Downing on the left always. He is hopeless on the right. Thought Ireland was doing well on the right when he came on then ten minutes later he was sort of on the left. That was braindead management. The Fonz provided pace but little else but would prefer his half to Carew's any day. Arsenal were superb going forward but hardly won a header in their own box all day. They need Vermaelen back. Thought Wilshire was quiet enough too.
Friedel 5 - thought he could have done better with two of the goals. One great save aswell it must be said.
L Young 4 - Decent as ever on the ball but Arshavin ran rings around him at times
Collins 4 - struggled with Chamakh's movement and didnt look right
Dunne 5 - left a clean pair of heels for the third goal but our best defender which wasnt saying much today.
Warnock 2 - not to play for the club again. The softest player that I can recall playing for the club. Down injured constantly. He was horrific today. That he makes the England squad is a shocking indictment of the standard of English players at the moment. Must be got rid of in January
Downing 5 - not a right sided player. The combination of L Young and himself is just plain dysfunctional. Another cowardly one in the tackle I'm afraid.
Bannan 3 - a horror show today I'm afraid. Needs to be in a three man midfield. We need Reo Coker and Petrov back pretty soon as I think the lad in sinking at the moment
Clark 6 - Two goals, decent chance of another and almost created one for A Young. Lacks a bit of mobility though but was tidy I thought on the ball.
A Young 5 - poor in first half but gave it a lash in the second anyway which is all we expect from any Villa player
Pires 3 - yikes. what to say. The ease in which the Arsenal defenders ran past him bringing the ball out of defence was striking. Shouldnt start again.
Carew 3 - Not a day to be an incredibly slow out of touch centre forward. Shouldnt start again either.
Delfouneso 5 - brought pace initially and has a very good touch but lost his way a bit as the half went on.
Ireland 6 - actually very decent initially but for some reason found his way onto the left. Another one of our players that is pathetic in the tackle.
Would certainly drop Warnock for the cup tie and bring in Beye at right back. If Gabby if fully fit he must start. Otherwise its the Fonz. Lets take them back to Villa Park anyway. Id drop Bannan too to be fair for lord knows who though.
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Would certainly drop Warnock for the cup tie and bring in Beye at right back. If Gabby if fully fit he must start.
Lets take them back to Villa Park anyway.
Take who back? Blues is a one off game to be decided on the night as always in the LC.
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GH got the team and tactics badly wong Carew and Pires too slow meant we were over run in the first half
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Take them back to Villa in the cup? It's the Carling Cup. The best we can hope for is a flukey win on penalties.
Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Chelsea over christmas. We'll be right down there and once you are it's hard to get out. We'll be in a relegation battle whether we like it or not.
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There are no replays in the Carling Cup.
Good post though.
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I hate to say it, but after today's game I think that we are lucky that Wolverhampton, West Ham and probably either WBA or Wigan are in our league or we might be feeling the relegation heat.
I think we're lucky that we're not called Waston Willa or anything else beginning with 'W' like all those other wankers.
Anyway, people go on about our tough fixture list coming up to and over Xmas. We've also got West Brom and Wigan to play, we'll get more points than you think.
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Scandalous.
The only word to describe the conduct of Pires in the tunnel before the game.
We're hardly going to stick it up 'em when one of our own players acts like a fuckin' groupie with the opposition.
I'm never one for signing has beens and this particular one can fuck off.
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GH got the team and tactics badly wong Carew and Pires too slow meant we were over run in the first half
It was like having two statue's up front. We couldnt get behind them and stretch them,and couldnt put any pressure from the front line on their defence and midfield. I know he didnt have much to pick from,but Gh got it badly wrong from the start today.
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Clarke is not the finished article but is already twice the player reo coker is. He has better arial advantage, better distribution and much better in the tackle. Reo Coker wants 50k a week !!! Sell in Jan and replace with quality ......
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Clarke is not the finished article but is already twice the player reo coker is. He has better arial advantage, better distribution and much better in the tackle. Reo Coker wants 50k a week !!! Sell in Jan and replace with quality ......
Facebook Like :)
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Men against boys. Shocking first half, slightly, ever so slightly, better in the second. Only positive out of the game was Ciaran Clark, who looked assured and calm... like he'd be playing in the team for years. Need to get some of our attacking players back, cause we're relying on Young and Downing to create anything.
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I thought Clarke was lost in midfield at times despite his two goals but I would persevere with him - still think he is a centre half though
I hope Carew never pulls on a Villa shirt again. Just go please and take Warnock with you. And that twat Ireland and his white boots
I used to think the term 'headless chicken' appled to Wright-Phillips and Lennon but Ashley Young has nows inherited the mantle. And get rid of that scarf thing son. If he's worth £80 million, then I reckon I could go for about £20 million anytime now....
Bannan was our best player again by some distance and really does look a prospect to me
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I thought Clarke was lost in midfield at times despite his two goals but I would persevere with him - still think he is a centre half though
I hope Carew never pulls on a Villa shirt again. Just go please and take Warnock with you. And that twat Ireland and his white boots
I used to think the term 'headless chicken' appled to Wright-Phillips and Lennon but Ashley Young has nows inherited the mantle. And get rid of that scarf thing son. If he's worth £80 million, then I reckon I could go for about £20 million anytime now....
Bannan was our best player again by some distance and really does look a prospect to me
Agree with most of that Richard but I thought Ireland did fairly well when he came on.
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This is where we are so I'm not surprised that Arsenal were able to take advantage. Things can change very quickly, and our game next week has massive meaning now. We just need a spark to get us going. The Man U game was it, and we couldn't see it through but it doesn't mean all hope is lost. Because it isn't. GH needs the opportunity to change things up, and we won't see the real effects of that until next season. While we won't be pulling up any trees in the league this season it seems the cups are still hugely important and can provide us with the platform for the rest of the season.
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Men against boys. Shocking first half, slightly, ever so slightly, better in the second. Only positive out of the game was Ciaran Clark, who looked assured and calm... like he'd be playing in the team for years. Need to get some of our attacking players back, cause we're relying on Young and Downing to create anything.
I pretty much agree with all this. We badly missed Reo-Coker though today.
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Pace, pace, and pace........... a lack of it in the 1st half, meant we was chaseing the game from half time.
Playing Carew is/was always a problem againsy Arse, too slow, and playing Bannan and Clark in the centre over exposed them.
Friedel should have saved the 1st and 3rd, and Houllier got it wrong by taking Bannan off.
AYoung was destroying Clichy the first 15 mins of the 2nd half, and then we stopped giving it him.
Too naive today, we allowed Arse to play far too much, should have been quicker and more aggressive.
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Irelands good on the ball, but too lazy off it.
Ashley was our most dangerous player today imho.
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Anyone blaming the injuries, wait until Petrov and co. are back it will be 'Petrov is shit, too slow, he's knackered', 'NRC can't pass a ball', 'Heskey is a lummox', some people think everything will be rosy when they're all back but the truth is none of them would have made a difference today and when we had them all at the start of the season we were still poor and got lamped 6-0 at Newcastle with our first team.
That was also our first choice defence today and they're an absolute shambles.
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Only saw the second half (thankfully considering your comments on it). We conceded at the wrong time. Again.
Getting one back when we did lifted the crowd and Arsenal were rocking. Then, Arsavin (who only ever appears to play / play well for Arsenal against us) drops deep and we're cut open far to easily by a through ball that should've been cut out. It seemed like we were scared to tackle them which is the absolute incorrect approach when playing that team. Conceding at the worst time possible is becoming our speciality.
Positives: Clarke played really well.. Ireland looked marginally better today, not saying much I concede. We couldn't get the ball to Young or Downing enough until he came on.
Might seem harsh but I really wouldn't care if I didn't see John Carew play for the Villa again. He is now totally ineffectual and reminds me of a big lumbering dog that needs putting down. As I said, maybe a bit harsh.
This injury thing is now as bad as I can remember. We badly miss Gabby and Albrighton.
Does anybody feel remotely confident about Wednesday?
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Didn't watch the second half, although listened to the commentary on 5 Live.
If we've going to put it down to a bad day and the better team winning, fine. It is, as everyone is saying, a season of transition. However, we are not winning enough games and we really must now get six points from the games against Albion and Wigan, and also try to get at least a point from either Anfield or Eastlands. If we don't, the table going into 2011 will start to make very uncomfortable reading.
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the scoreline flattered us immensely.... arsenal were by far the better side, and that was without them needing to get out of 2nd gear...
in the first half, we were an absolute disgrace.. an embarassment... never seen any side in world football play that poorly... a total disgrace to the shirt, and i hope they are all as ashamed of themselves, as i am of them...
second half, it was an improvent... but then again, staying in the changing rooms and not coming out for the second half would have been an improvement... clark played well although his goal should have been chalked off, bannon showed glimpses of his ability, and delfouneso was lively... the rest, an absolute disgrace... more late goals conceded in each half... that keeps happening and is not good enough...
comedy defending, no work rate, and absolutely no clue in an attacking sense... just a joke all round...
not fkcuing happy, and if those players get paid this week, then it is an absolute travesty...
no escuses about injuries, no excuses about lack of preperation for the season, no excuses full stop... the basic fundementals from alleged experienced quality footballers were lacking all over the pitch today, and that was most disappointing...
they should be ashamed of themselves...
disgraceful...
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Only saw the second half (thankfully considering your comments on it). We conceded at the wrong time. Again.
Getting one back when we did lifted the crowd and Arsenal were rocking. Then, Arsavin (who only ever appears to play / play well for Arsenal against us) drops deep and we're cut open far to easily by a through ball that should've been cut out. It seemed like we were scared to tackle them which is the absolute incorrect approach when playing that team. Conceding at the worst time possible is becoming our speciality.
Positives: Clarke played really well.. Ireland looked marginally better today, not saying much I concede. We couldn't get the ball to Young or Downing enough until he came on.
Might seem harsh but I really wouldn't care if I didn't see John Carew play for the Villa again. He is now totally ineffectual and reminds me of a big lumbering dog that needs putting down. As I said, maybe a bit harsh.
This injury thing is now as bad as I can remember. We badly miss Gabby and Albrighton.
Does anybody feel remotely confident about Wednesday?
No
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Does anybody feel remotely confident about Wednesday?
I'm dreading it to be honest, i just can't see us winning at all. Usually i'd say quality would overcome their battling qualities and fighting spirit they'll no doubt show but i don't think we've got very much quality in our team or squad at all. I can only see us getting outfought and our defence crumbling under their pressure. Right at this moment i wish i wasn't going but i'm sure that will change as the week goes on.
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Three of four players from Lyon (who you got on with and were mostly fit) please Gez. Including two full-backs and a right bastard who can also play football in centre-midfield. In the meantime, any chance of recalling Curtis?
I never thought I'd post that.
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We didn't turn up first half and got totally over run in the midfield. Thought game changed when we stuck two upfront and eventually took Carew off. The most frustraighting thing was we gave so many balls away with sloppy five/ten yard passes.
I thought Banann struggled if I'm honest but was impressed with Clarke in the second half.
On a side not I'm sure I saw a brass monkey sitting in the holte end crying. It was bloody freezing.
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brass monkey i saw was asking for a welder!
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I am always or I try to be balanced about any Villa performance and try not to be too critical of individuals. However:
John Carew and Robert Pires were an embarrassment. Pires understanably so but Carew for fuck sake go.
Ashley Young in turning into a laughable numpty. Can't cross can't pass can't make space can't take up any good positions never could tackle. I do hope someone comes in for him in January.
It is a poor state of affairs when a kid , normally centre half, looked our best midfielder.
Having said again imressed with Bannan and I thought Fonz wa brilliant when he came on. A centre forward with energy, movement and aggression finally on the pitch.
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Pathetic, dismal first-half performance from us... just couldn't keep the ball, were looking lost and Arsenal eventually took advantage of that. Second-half we came out much better looking like we wanted to compete in the match, got a great first goal early on - great, then we let ourselves down again by letting them score a third.
First-half ruined it for ourselves, although we did have a good go at a comeback, it wasn't good enough in the end.
Game on Wednesday... don't play Pires or Carew, neither are fully fit so they won't be performing their best. Play Ireland and Gabby... hopefully Gabby will feel well enough to play, if not just play Delfouneso.
P.S. Just remember guys, although we all know this we've got loads of injuries and when we get our players back we'll do much better, playing youngsters all the time isn't gonna always pay off.
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Ged got it wrong today - should have started with Nathan .
Carew should never put a villa shirt on again - I notice he could'nt get off the pitch quick enough when he finally was substituted , no waving or clapping the fans today was there , wanker.
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4 nil would have flattered us today. That was painful. Some shambolic defending.
Lets not forget they were without Fabregas and they had 3 goals stuck them last week and by WBA a few weeks ago.
We could find ourselves in tricky position if HT results stay as they are.
And another thing, I'm sick of Houlliers "love-ins" with the opposition.
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Carew came off and complained he was cold. Pathetic.
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That first half was pathetic. I lost count of the passes left short and the occasions when our players just seemed totally asleep and Arsenal getting to the loose balls. If we cant do the baisic skills of the game then we are f****d.
Carew was his normal self and Ashley Young was also absolute crap.
At least there was some positives in the 2nd half but I am really starting to fear where we will finish this season.
The Carling Cup game is going to be embarrasing.
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Pathetic, dismal first-half performance from us... just couldn't keep the ball, were looking lost and Arsenal eventually took advantage of that. Second-half we came out much better looking like we wanted to compete in the match, got a great first goal early on - great, then we let ourselves down again by letting them score a third.
First-half ruined it for ourselves, although we did have a good go at a comeback, it wasn't good enough in the end.
Game on Wednesday... don't play Pires or Carew, neither are fully fit so they won't be performing their best. Play Ireland and Gabby... hopefully Gabby will feel well enough to play, if not just play Delfouneso.
P.S. Just remember guys, although we all know this we've got loads of injuries and when we get our players back we'll do much better, playing youngsters all the time isn't gonna always pay off.
The youngsters weren't the problem today. It was the seniors, and its becoming a regular occurance.
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I agree with the others it was men against boys, especially the first half we could have been 4 or 5 down! second half we were a bit better but jesus wept we let them run rings around us we were chasing shadows most of the time.
Friedel was poor could have done better on a couple of the goals, he's so slow to react at times, Warnock was poor as was Luke Young, Downing didn't have the best of games but he shouldn't be on the right, Bannan wasn't at his best but he's only 20 he can't be expected to play every game and be brilliant every game! Carew man you need to pull your finger out, you can't even pass the ball 5 fucking yards, you can't control it and you always go for the wrong option!! Never thought I'd say this but fuck off somewhere else you lazy fucking shit
Our injury list is shocking but we can't keep using it as an excuse. Can't wait for jan to come hopefully we can bring in some better players! Most of this team are NOT up to standard
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Pathetic, dismal first-half performance from us... just couldn't keep the ball, were looking lost and Arsenal eventually took advantage of that. Second-half we came out much better looking like we wanted to compete in the match, got a great first goal early on - great, then we let ourselves down again by letting them score a third.
First-half ruined it for ourselves, although we did have a good go at a comeback, it wasn't good enough in the end.
Game on Wednesday... don't play Pires or Carew, neither are fully fit so they won't be performing their best. Play Ireland and Gabby... hopefully Gabby will feel well enough to play, if not just play Delfouneso.
P.S. Just remember guys, although we all know this we've got loads of injuries and when we get our players back we'll do much better, playing youngsters all the time isn't gonna always pay off.
The youngsters weren't the problem today. It was the seniors, and its becoming a regular occurance.
Yep, that's my point... you can't rely on youngsters like that when it should be the senior players showing how it's done with the kids following them. Too much pressure on Clarke, Bannan and Delfouneso just isn't fair... once our senior players step up our younger players will feel more comfortable and confident.
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The youngsters weren't the problem today. It was the seniors, and its becoming a regular occurance.
Warnock and Dunne were inept in the first half and we were lucky not to be down in the first minute. Everybody knows that if you let Arse play you get hammered. Everybody knows that most of Arshavin's goals come when he cuts in from the wing. They are two points which we chose to ignore today for some reason.
Quite a good attempt at a comeback but it was never going to happen with Carew in that sort of mood - the Fonz showed him up today big time.
Hopefully our juniors will have learned a couple of things today. Clarke was impressive, composed and took his goals very well. This was always going to be a difficult game but you don't really need to gift opportunities to teams as good as Arse.
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edited
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Friedel was too slow for their 3rd. As Chamakh broke through, sittiing in the North Stand, I felt no danger and expected Brad to get to the ball first. The mix up for the first was unfortunate. Nasri shot after Friedel made a world class save fron
m Chamakh's header, was top draw however not as good as Clark's. I thought we may have nicked a draw as Aresenal were vey shaky at set pieces it is just that we didn't create many of those in the last 20 minutes. The 4th goal doesn't count in the scheme of things!
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Don't know where to start - that was some crap display by a very strange looking Villa team.
For obvious reasons, Clark came through with flying colours - Ash tried but was playing with a load of numpties and I thought Ireland looked good when he finally came on( he should have started).
GH has some real work to do, hope he's up to the task.
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Oh dear! Was I the only person at the game who enjoyed it? No, 'cause there were lots of others around me in the Lower Holte and they weren't at all downcast. We were playing a better team, but there were times when we believed in ourselves and showed that we could still be competitive, particularly at the beginning of the second half.
I should not be surprised if we have seen the last of that former idol, John Carew. On the other hand Ireland started to look like the player that we know he can be, and Ciaran's volley was a gem. Let's give M. Houllier a chance, for Pete's sake.
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The first half was embarrassing, and I can't remember feeling that way about a Villa team for a long, long time. The 7-1 away at Chelsea was bad, but it did not seem as bad as that first half. I don't agree with the idea that we were lacking passion or effort: what we were lacking was a fucking clue.
Leon Trotsky coined the concept of Permanent Revolution, then the NeoCons invented Permanent Pre-emptive War and now Warnock has become Permanent Disaster In Progress.
Carew was beyond dismal.
We need Petrov and Reo back sooner rather than later.
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we were too content to sit back and let them play it around. We needed the same pressing and vibrancy as in the Man Utd game.
as others have noted, the weak points are the senior pros (L Young, Carew, Warnock, Dunne). These are the ones who should be stepping up to the plate.
Gabby will be ok for Wednesday, right? what about Reo-Coker?
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Load of wank
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Sky Sports reporting that Collins picked up a calf injury and could miss the game Wednesday...
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I hate to say it, but after today's game I think that we are lucky that Wolverhampton, West Ham and probably either WBA or Wigan are in our league or we might be feeling the relegation heat.
You can't just relegate teams because they begin with W ;)
Three of those won today.
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A Norwegian claiming he is cold?
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A Norwegian claiming he is cold?
this whole gloves, and now scarf business is embarrassing to say the least.
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Just about thawed out - it was bloody freezing there today. First up, we have to admit that Arsenal are a different class to us at the minute. Their movement, confidence on the ball, and one-touch passing even when under pressure were all impressive. However, that's no excuse for us helping them look even better.
Defensive jitters in the first 15 minutes could have easily seen Arsenal 2 or 3 up. This followed by comedy capers between Collins and L.Young for Arshavin's goal (well taken), and lack of marking of Nasri for his volley from the edge of the area (again well taken). That first half performance was just embarrassing - poor passing, lack of fight, bottling out of challenges - but at least we came out looking as though we meant it in the second half. Carew was a waste of space again- he can go in January as far as I'm concerned, injuries or not - and Pires (apart from one good run) looked knackered. We looked far better when Fonz, and later Ireland came on.
Should have held on to the one-goal deficit for longer after Ciaran's first goal, but then having clawed one back again it was pretty inevitable we would concede again when chasing for an equaliser, with Dunne up front acting as a target for hoofballs.
Not good. I really fear for Wednesday
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Awful first half performance from us and they could have had 4 or 5. Much better second half. Ciaran Clark looks the business. It was very cold indeed.
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I didn't go today. Made the decision late last night when the weather looked dodgy and didn't feel like changing my mind this morning. When they scored their first I actually turned over to see how Wimbledon were getting on, and stayed on ITV for a bit. Yes, we're reaping what O'Neill sowed in the summer - lack of signings, leaving us in the lurch - but I can't help but think that Houllier was the wrong man. I was briefly optimistic at first but it's become clear we're going to need a battler to survive this season. The Albion next - can I be bothered?
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A Norwegian claiming he is cold?
this whole gloves, and now scarf business is embarrassing to say the least.
Acceptable IF you're playing well.
Carew is far from that.
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The only time we looked dangerous was Young on the rite and Downing on the left but for some reason we only played about 15 minutes this way
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Very embarrassing and one-sided first half, you could drive a truck through our midfield.
Bannan is just too lightweight, Carew was shocking, as was Warnock once again.
More injuries to Collins and Carew, we are a complete mess and look powder puff.
No positives, apart from Clark who tried manfully in a role that is not natural to him.
We are going to get battered on Wednesday on that showing, we need some more experience in midfield and I would be tempted to put Warnock in there midweek, at least he will put a tackle in and may not be such a liability there.
Freezing my nuts off, just thawed out.
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Houllier lost it in the first half with the team pick and tactics. To see a Villa side out harassed, at home, all through the half was a disgrace, its our one asset with all the kids.
Second half he saw the light but it was too late, a lucky first goal, made it interesting only for the likes of Dunne to be found ahead of Bannan and Arsenal to score another goal. Crazy.
My view is the hearts of the pre Houllier players aren't in it.
We can do it, we can score against anyone, if a cb playing out of position in midfield scores 2 why can't these stars fans keep promoting like Defounesco score?
I wonder how many of those returning, Collins, Dunne, Carew were fit let alone match fit and that's a problem, even when the injured players are fit, how long before they are match fit, too long.
Hopefully not.
Again in his post match interview GH sounds worried, defeated and down. We need a Villa manager with drive optimism and ideas, not a depressed fatalist who is so negative he puts out a team with a relegation attitude about them.
We are better than he believes, we have shown that time and again and keep losing, Houllier needs to get a grip on himself and the more experienced players and quick.
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And Pires......an experiment that failed badly
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We are a fragile side at the moment - not surprising given the youngsters. I could understand the shape GH was trying to play in the first half but it relies on your centre forward holding the ball up and bringing players into the game. Ireland took some stick last week for his performance but Carew should hang his head in shame after today. The end of his time here is fast approaching.
Some spirit in the second half. Clark and Bannan did ok and stuck at it - and Delfounso looked bright when he came on. The full backs both struggled all afternoon and our passing was as poor as I've seen it since Houllier came.
I'm worried we will be in a relegation battle at the turn of the year - and I'm hopeful the blizzards due in the Midlands on Tuesday will postpone the game and give us a chance to get one or two back.
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And Pires......an experiment that failed badly
yeah,he hasn't got the legs to start,should only come on for last 20 mins to close a game out,or to try and create a goal.
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And Pires......an experiment that failed badly
He's only been here two weeks give the man a chance
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We looked most threatening when Young moved in behind Del-Boy, as we finally had some mobility up top.
While we doubtless are missing out with injuries in the middle of the park through Petrov, NRC and Delph, its very evident just how much we need a fit Gabby and Albrighton in the side. We were nigh on unplayable going forwards in the second half against Man United. Carew and Pires will never offer that.
Percy is right about a nasty bastard in the middle. Somebody who can effectively shield the back-four, but whose also got the pace and passing to breakout when need be.
We’re limping along till January when hopefully we’ll get the above mentioned midfielders back in, along with some additions. Fingers crossed that Gabby can finally get a run of games together.
As for the game, a lot has already been said that is correct. We were playing a side who were on the verge of going top and you just cannot give them 45 minutes. That said, bar the first 5 or 10 minutes they were diabolical too. A lot of possession and nothing else. So when you’re getting away with a poor performance you don’t need your fullback to needlessly charge out of position and collide with your centre half.
I also thought our midfield looked very weak in that first 45- we didn’t press, we sat too deep and we recycled possession far too readily.
The second forty five was a lot better. We gave them a game and I think you can ignore the fourth goal given the circumstances. As I said at the top, with pace and movement up front instead of the Carerw and Pires, we looked more likely. They were certainly getting twitchy, and hacking the ball anywhere. But then when you give a side like Arsenal a two goal head start, then you know you’ve got an uphill task ahead of you, particularly when you’re benches combined age is still less than your goalkeepers!
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The only time we looked dangerous was Young on the rite
Yes, and he could have had somebody's eye out with that chinchilla pelt he had round his neck.
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What is our heaviest ever defeat to SHA?
That comment is pathetic, defeatist, negative and deserves no place on this site; thank god you weren't around in the trenches in WW11. We all know what we are going to get on Wednesday, an atritional and likely atrocious match where Blues will try to play the usual negative spoiling game, they score very few goals you know!!!!
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What is our heaviest ever defeat to SHA?
That comment is pathetic, defeatist, negative and deserves no place on this site; thank god you weren't around in the trenches in WW11. We all know what we are going to get on Wednesday, an atritional and likely atrocious match where Blues will try to play the usual negative spoiling game, they score very few goals you know!!!!
World War 11? Blimey.
Joking aside, it is a negative comment, although some people are worried and upset. I'd prefer not to have the cup match on the way when we need to concentrate on the league tbh.
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Absolutely. Anybody who doesn’t believe that we’ll smash fuck out of those Bordesley Green troglodyte ****** on Wednesday night is either actually a said troglodyte or Blackcountry Villa.
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Percy is right about a nasty bastard in the middle. Somebody who can effectively shield the back-four, but whose also got the pace and passing to breakout when need be.
Show me one of those and i'll tell you which Champions League team he plays for. It isn't that simple. Reo Coker is on the books and if he was fit would be able to do that role well enough imo, he just needs someone to tell him to stop getting carried away in possession and keep playing the simple ball.
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Not necessarily. If you pay the money, then they’ll come. Everton and Spurs have managed to snaffle enough decent midfielders, so there is no particular reason that we cannot. Just because something is difficult, doesn’t mean its impossible and that we have to settle with what we’ve got. I’m confident that some hard work is currently underway in regards to potential acquisitions for January.
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Also, was it just me thinking that Downing was lazy for a good portion of the match, especially when he lost or gave away the ball?
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I don't know. I can recall one incident where he gave it away and chased back to intercept and then offloading it to Brad. He put in some dangerous crosses, which Ash just doesn't do when he's on the right.
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Also, was it just me thinking that Downing was lazy for a good portion of the match, especially when he lost or gave away the ball?
Back to last seasons form, although he does play better on the left.
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Everything aside, Arsenal seem to have used us for "practice" on a lot of occasions at Villa Park now! Without checking any stats, they must have a pretty decent record here.
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OK not great today by any means, especially first half, but at least we took the game to them second half and for a while a draw seemed possible.
Should never have started Pires as he's still in love with them and I'll let carew off for coming back from injury IF he shows against bluescum - if he doesnt, finished. Ireland finally showed some potential, hope to see more.
TBH we played and defended well for parts of the game buit we were let down by our passing, short, long, behind etc. etc. and this was to blame for at least 2 of the goals.
So overall I can still see us moving forward but final question (cue the "they're too good we couldnt get near them" whines) - The way to play against them is get in their faces, early and HARD!!. One yellow card was nowhere near enough and one good early hit on chamakh would have made him more cautious. The kids are quick enough and big enough so lets get more physical with teams - FFS we did it against the Mancs and look where it got us.
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What is our heaviest ever defeat to SHA?
That comment is pathetic, defeatist, negative and deserves no place on this site; thank god you weren't around in the trenches in WW11. We all know what we are going to get on Wednesday, an atritional and likely atrocious match where Blues will try to play the usual negative spoiling game, they score very few goals you know!!!!
Spot on (apart from World War 11, but I guess that was a typo).
Despite us having an inexperienced and weakened team, they still won't have the balls to actually play football and take the game to us because they will be too frightened at the possibility of losing to 'Vile Reserves'.
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The only time we looked dangerous was Young on the rite and Downing on the left but for some reason we only played about 15 minutes this way
The only time we looked dangerous was when Arsenal had to defend a high ball in or around the 6 yard box alas we disdn't get enough of those in.
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I didn't go today. Made the decision late last night when the weather looked dodgy and didn't feel like changing my mind this morning. When they scored their first I actually turned over to see how Wimbledon were getting on, and stayed on ITV for a bit. Yes, we're reaping what O'Neill sowed in the summer - lack of signings, leaving us in the lurch - but I can't help but think that Houllier was the wrong man. I was briefly optimistic at first but it's become clear we're going to need a battler to survive this season. The Albion next - can I be bothered?
No don't bother mate, the club and its loyal supporters can do without fairweather folk like you, stick to your armchair and Sky subscription I think you will enjoy it more oh and by the way in case you didn't know football is a winter sport!!!
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GH got the tactics totally wrong in the first half. It is pointless playing with one up front if that one is off form and has virtually no pace. Carew needed somebody along side him to at least offer some threat to the weakest part of the Arsenal team ...their defence. Pires was a complete waste of time. He showed no effort what so ever and didn't appeared bothered. He's not a player that should be in the starting 11.
Our two fullbacks are awful. If Luke Young is consistent as somebody else stated earlier then he is consistently shit, Warnock was a marginal improvement on his offerings of late but still was not good enough.
You have to get at Arsenal if you want to get something out of the game, we didn't until periods of the 2nd half. Had we had the same idea in the first we might have got a point.
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We were up against a class Arsenal side and we really lost the game in the midfield. Downing, Pires, Young, Bannan and later Ireland all failed to put a challenge in. It really was Wimpsville B6. Apart from his goals, I was impressed with Clark, he looks like he really has the quality to make it. Today Bannan's height and weight really stuck out, getting pushed off the ball far too easily. His opening 15 minutes were absolutely shocking but credit to the lad, he kept at it.
Carew did well in holding the ball up at times but unbelieveably failed to make the simplist of passes on at leat four occasions. The Fonz when he came on just looked out of his depth. Some good running but clueless with his decision making. On todays performance, he's still a long way off breaking into the first team. Oh how we miss Gabby.
The defence were on the back foot for most of the game, due in part to the poor protection from the midfield. Arsenal just took full advantage of the space we gave them, which was acres. Great to see Collins finally winning headers, I thought overall he had a decent game but I still have concerns about Dunne. Luke Young and Warnock were both forced to battle hard throughout the game but they were on a hiding to nothing.
Agree with whoever said Big Brad should have done better for the 3rd goal. I thought he had it covered. Superb save almost made up for it.
Previously against Arsenal we've been in their faces, not surrendering an inch but today they were the team prepared for a battle, always pressing and with the talent they have to pass the ball around plus their movement on and off the ball, we just looked frail. Hopefully for the Rags game, we'll have a few more players back otherwise they'll just bully us in midfield.
Arsenal, despite their dodgy defence are still a bloody good side and we were lucky not to be four or five down in the first half. Ignore the injuries if you wish but who else was Houllier to field today?
Forgot to mention that today was probably Ireland's best performance to date, not saying much I know but some positive signs. Now he needs to start making a tackle or two and we might finally start seeing the best of him.
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Today was definitely a game of two halfs, the first half we were scared to death of the ball.
Every time we have the ball we are scared to keep it if an opposing player is near.
That was the difference today, Arsenel are all confident on the ball and not afraid to go past a player, we are the complete opposite. We cannot keep posession which is costing us.
It is going to take a long time and new players for Houllier to change this frame of mind at the club.
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The only time we looked dangerous was Young on the rite and Downing on the left but for some reason we only played about 15 minutes this way
Said the same about Blackburn last week - we lose 50% effectiveness by playing Downing on the right.
Have to say that the first half line up was wrong in my opinion - if he was going to play Carew he has to have someone else up with him to do the running, otherwise he is just a total waste of time - as he was. The quickest he shifted all afternoon was when his number went up on the board!!
If GH thought Pires was going to play off Carew then again totally misguided IMO. We really needed to get into their centre halfs - they were their weak link and we hardly tested them. On the few occasions we put pressure on them in the second half it showed how weak they were.
I also thought Bannan was poor today - to me he plays far too deep, just in front of the centre halfs instead of further up the field where he can hurt their defence. Clark I will reserve judgement on as a central midfielder due to his goals. Other than those I think he also had a poor game and maybe is not nimble enough to play in the middle of the park. Unfortunately the two of them playing against the Arsenal midfield literally was men against boys and this is always going to be exacerbated by playing Downing and Ashley on the wings. If we play with the two youngsters in the middle then either Ash or Downing needs to play off the striker and another midfielder brought in to bolster the middle.
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Oh dear! Was I the only person at the game who enjoyed it?
Not at all. There were 3,000 Arsenal fans who had a great afternoon.
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I wish that A. Young would develop a better feel around the net. He looks flashy in midfield but seems to choke when he gets close to the net?!
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I wish that A. Young would develop a better feel around the net. He looks flashy in midfield but seems to choke when he gets close to the net?!
I wish when he'd stop hugging the bloody touchline and get himself in the bloody box when Downing is putting in a cross from the other wing.
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God I miss Albrighton. And damn you Villa for making me look up to Spurs!
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From Auntie (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9221100.stm):
Arsenal ended a tumultuous week by holding off a spirited Aston Villa fightback to earn victory.
Andrey Arshavin cut in from the left to fire in a shot and Samir Nasri volleyed home to put the Gunners 2-0 up.
Ciaran Clark gave Villa hope with an 18-yard strike, although Marouane Chamakh's poked shot for the visitors appeared to have put Arsenal safe.
But Clark nodded in to set up a tense finale before Jack Wilshere's injury-time header secured victory.
The Gunners let a two-goal advantage slip last Saturday when they lost 3-2 to Tottenham and, despite securing another two-goal lead at Villa Park, they looked unconvincing as they almost threw it away again.
Credit, though, must go to a depleted Villa, who went into the game with Gabriel Agbonlahor and Marc Albrighton added to a lengthy injury list but raised themselves after a poor first half to give their opponents a scare.
Arsenal, who were beaten by Braga in the Champions League on Tuesday and lost captain Cesc Fabregas to injury in the process, held on to move briefly to the top of the Premier League, until Manchester United thrashed Blackburn later in the day.
Although the win helped the Gunners improve on the top-flight's best away record, it remains to be seen whether it will translate into a firm title push.
Arsenal have flattered to deceive too many times this season, digging out hard-fought wins at Blackburn and Everton only to shoot themselves in the foot with home defeats by West Brom, Newcastle and Tottenham.
Against Villa, Arsenal's performance encapsulated their season to date as they quickly got into the groove of producing their pretty patterns of eye-catching football but then relinquished control of the game.
Villa left-back Stephen Warnock was almost punished for giving the ball away in the opening minute when Arshavin put Chamakh through before home keeper Brad Friedel came to his team-mate's rescue by blocking at the striker's feet.
Tomas Rosicky flashed a shot across goal and Nasri sent a drive just wide as Arsenal picked and probed at Villa.
The home side were struggling but almost punished the visitors for their profligacy when Clark flicked on a Stewart Downing cross for Ashley Young at the far post but the winger - seemingly from an offside position - fired over from close range.
It was a rare sight of goal for a Villa side that was spending most of the time trying to keep Arsenal at bay and the pressure finally told when James Collins and Luke Young both missed a clearance.
Arshavin gathered possession on the left flank before driving at goal and angling in a shot, which Friedel got a hand to but could not keep out.
Immediately after, Nasri rounded Friedel before shooting into the side-netting before atoning for the miss when he volleyed home Arshavin's corner from the edge of the area via a Luke Young deflection.
Arsenal were denied a third when Chamakh had a header brilliantly kept out by a reflex save from Friedel before the home side, who took off ex-Gunners star Robert Pires at half-time, came out and went at Arsenal after the break.
They were rewarded when Clark chested down a Sebastien Squillaci clearance and powered in a shot, although Villa striker John Carew was in an offside position blocking Gunners keeper Lukasz Fabianski's view.
Rosicky played Chamakh through to restore Arsenal's two-goal cushion only for Clark to renew Villa's hopes of preserving their unbeaten home record by nodding in off the crossbar after Richard Dunne's header across goal from a corner.
A shaky Arsenal had to show their dogged side to hold on to their lead and confirmed their win when Chamakh picked out an unmarked Wilshere to head in from point-blank range for his first Premier League goal.
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Arsenal are a very good team. For the last however many seasons, they're always the best team to come to Villa Park. How they don't win anything is beyond me.
However, first half was shocking, then with a change in formation and a bit of desire, we came back into it and gave ourselves a creditable performance in the second half. I don't usually stay to clap us off having lost by two goals, but I thought our second half performance was worth it.
When are we going to get 90 minutes where we play as well as we can?!?!?!? Surely it must be coming soon.
By the time we get players back from injury and are able to drop Downing, A.Young will have left so Downing will have to play. He is such a wimp. How he made it as a footballer with such limpness is beyond me.
I'd love to see a midfield of Albrighton, A.Young, Delph and Bannan, but don't think A.Young will be around for this to happen.
Gutted for Clark. Two goals at home and on the losing team.
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Have to say I'm in full agreement with the last summary.
Arsenal were blooming good and how we were technically still in the game until the last 30 seconds bemused me quite a lot in the second half as Arsenal should've been five up in the first.
I agree Downing was poor today, the amount of 50/50s he bottled when an Arsenal player was moving towards him ran into double figures.
He's been very good this season but on the left, on the right it dosen't work as well so it's difficult to me to see how you accomodate all our creative players without moving one out of position and seeing their performance level dip.
Oh and we missed Gabby big time yet again. The Arsenal centre halfs couldn't believe their luck they coul;d get their cigar out and mark Carew rather than him.
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And Pires......an experiment that failed badly
He's only been here two weeks give the man a chance
I was talking about today's performance, which was an experiment to play him behind Carew.
I feel Pires may be useful coming ff the bench
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First half was embarrassing, that was a disgrace of a performance, we looked like a poor championship side scared to death of playing against a top quality side. Second Half was much improved but why we were so abysmal in the first half is a mystery. Arsenal are of course a top quality side but we didn't half help them out in that first half by not closing them down and then we did have the ball, wasting possession all the time.
Second Half and the changes worked, Arsenal for a while looked wobbly in defence, Clark's first goal was a beauty.
I thought Bannan and Clark did fine today, Downing unfortunately had one of those days where he looks scared of tackling and working, he had such a great game against Man United a fortnight ago and has been one of our better players all season but today he had a shocker.
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
Who and why?
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With no new players in the summer we were looking at a midtable finish no-one could have predicted
that we would be decimated with injuries. Things look desperate now but once we start getting bodies back we will be ok. Positives: before the start of the season who would have thought Albrighton would become such an important player for us and Clark showing great promise if MON was still with us they would still be bit players. Not convinced wee Barry is physically strong enough, good with the ball at his feet but cannot tacklle, in imperitive for a midfielder. Delph, NRC, Petrov, Albrighton,Heskey and Carlos all to come back.
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Sky Sports reporting that Collins picked up a calf injury and could miss the game Wednesday...
He was struggling massively at that point, I would've got him off at that point especailly as Arsenal actually ceased to be an attacking threat at that point and were throwing on midfielders to protect the 4-2.
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
Downing was rubbish today, he was superb a fortnight ago against Man United and has had a decent season, today however, he was awful.
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
Who and why?
Dunne and Warnock for me who have been putting in a string of abysmal performances. Beyond that you could probably look to Collins and Luke Young for some individual errors. Carew for his general lack of either general 'being arsedness'. Then you have a few more players who are debatable such as Ireland (who's not had a decent chance yet) and Ashley Young (who has been making poor decisions sometimes on the pitch).
Downing has arguably been our player of the season and whilst he has put in a few bad/anonymous performances they have just about been outnumbered by the good.
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remember when you were at school and at break you picked sides (or got picked on a side) that you knew full well was bollocks compared to the other lot. They had most of the good players and you looked over knowing what was about to happen. Then every once in a while, in the 15 minutes that you had, you'd beat them and it was the best feeling in the world. They'd be arguing and you'd be praying for the bell. The rest of the time, you'd take a kicking, and even if you had some good players it was never as many as that lot, and your good players wouldn't be good enough to bridge the gap in quality.
Well right now, Villa are like that. The others teams have better players overall and while we might raise our game for a short period of time, the chances are over 90 not 15 minutes we're going to get beaten. Add to that, our paper thin squad is depleted further by new injuries to Albrighton and Gabby and we are looking over enviously at the other lot, especially if the other lot are Arsenal.
The point I'm making is that if we're going to slag our lot, then do it with that in mind. We can't just go and bring in new players, and many of the ones we have need to elevate themselves from youth and reserve football level to arguably the most difficult and competitive professional league in the world. It's a massive, massive jump in standard. Yes, we have experienced players amongst them, but when you consider that Dunne, Pires and Friedel are are three of them with a combined age of 107 or so, then you know that however hard they work or try, it's going to be difficult.
Our lot will improve. The young kids are being given the "Thrown in at the Deep End" version of PL life, and some of them won't survive. Those who do will come out of it mush stronger, and GH and team/Randy/Faulkner all see how desperately we need January to arrive to get a few faces in. GH's Villa won't take shape until next season. Until then, we have to be patient as fans and supportive. It's going to be a rough ride for a bit, but getting on the back of this team only hurts us given the amount of impressionable kids that are now playing. We have every chance on Wednesday of raising our game in the cup, so that's where it starts again. Let's get behind them.
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Sky Sports reporting that Collins picked up a calf injury and could miss the game Wednesday...
He was struggling massively at that point, I would've got him off at that point especailly as Arsenal actually ceased to be an attacking threat at that point and were throwing on midfielders to protect the 4-2.
I hope not because I don't want to sacrifice having to play Clark in defence alongside Dunne against the scum when we could do with Clark in midfield. Will Cuellar be fit for Wednesday or is that too much to ask? Maybe Dunne with Beye - I don't know.
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
Downing was rubbish today, he was superb a fortnight ago against Man United and has had a decent season, today however, he was awful.
I agree that he deserves criticism for his performance today but some of the criticism on this thread is back to the Downing being rubbish/wimpy stuff from last season. My point is based more around the season as a whole than this individual match. Even today though I'd point the fingers more readily at some in defence and other players like Carew.
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
Who and why?
Dunne - headless chicken and terrible decision maker
Warnock - reckless, slow
A Young - terrible passing/crossing
Carew - too cold
Ireland - black belt who's too scared too put a foot in in case it recks his January move
Pires - can barely run
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I actually thought Warnock was o.k today in so much as he was only one of the back 4 not to drop a claner with one of the goals.
I didn't think Dunney was too bad either but he got found out a bit for the third goal.
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
You are right there were a few duffs out there, but Downings poor performances are becoming more frquent, a part of the problem is playing him on the right
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And Pires......an experiment that failed badly
He's only been here two weeks give the man a chance
I was talking about today's performance, which was an experiment to play him behind Carew.
I feel Pires may be useful coming ff the bench
The team chosen allied to the negative tactics wasn't helped by a totally ineffectual performance from Pirez's is true, but a half fit Carew and Collins, possibly even Dunne didn't help.
In a way the second half showing until their 4th exemplified the possibilities if we took on Arsenal. It looks to me that Houllier has no real faith in the squad and is too cautious as a result.
I'd also suggest when you need a rebel rousing speech to turn things around or get players up for it, the bog cleaner has more chance than GH, judging by his sterile post match mantras.
We are too good for relegation, we can spend in January, but on who, more negative, old and past it midfield players, most likely
Then we might not be too good for relegation
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Nice to see Downing has regained the scapegoat mantle despite being a much better player this season. I think it might actually help him if he played in his correct position mind rather than on the right.
There are players much more deserving of criticism than him. Quite a few in fact.
Downing was rubbish today, he was superb a fortnight ago against Man United and has had a decent season, today however, he was awful.
I agree that he deserves criticism for his performance today but some of the criticism on this thread is back to the Downing being rubbish/wimpy stuff from last season. My point is based more around the season as a whole than this individual match. Even today though I'd point the fingers more readily at some in defence and other players like Carew.
He's certainly been one of our best players this season, even today he showed a few glimpses and he certainly wasn't the only player to have a bad game, in the first half they all had a bad game.
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3rd Goal for them was pub league defending by Dunne.
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3rd Goal for them was pub league defending by Dunne.
Agreed. He's been hopeless all season. Fat and rubbish.
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Gonna get my rant over now. Downing was crap and lacked committment he was acting like he couldnt be bothered time and time again all through the game. Luke young for me today was poor, he was dragged out of position too easily and lacked communication well the whole defence did, Clark for me was one of the few players who didn't give up on the game, Ashley young wasn't at his best with many passes going astray, we need players back and need new signings desperately something has to happen to change. If we don't change we are doomed, and if we play like that against blues I'm sorry but my patience will be at an all time low.
Rant over :)
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the reason Arsenal had such good first half, was because they had at least 3 or 4 more players on the pitch than us,
was i the only one who noticed this ?
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The most annoying thing about their second goal was that they'd already pulled that trick once, it was the other side of the penalty area but then we didn't pick the guy up, so for us not to notice a bloke in acres of space again was inexcusable. The whole first half was inexcusable.
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Josef Venglos, Billy McNeil, David O'Leary, Gerard Houllier...as far as I'm concerned they're all the same bloke.
Not one Liverpool supporter said anything positive about Houllier, the French hate him as he was part of the set up
that f*cked up their World Cup - yet we welcome him with open arms. Already I'm sick at not being able to watch Match of The Day, this is like going back to the dark ages again.
Wednesday is so ominous it's untrue, never in the last 5 years has it been a better time for Small Heath to play us.
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Josef Venglos, Billy McNeil, David O'Leary, Gerard Houllier...as far as I'm concerned they're all the same bloke.
Not one Liverpool supporter said anything positive about Houllier, the French hate him as he was part of the set up
that f*cked up their World Cup - yet we welcome him with open arms. Already I'm sick at not being able to watch Match of The Day, this is like going back to the dark ages again.
Wednesday is so ominous it's untrue, never in the last 5 years has it been a better time for Small Heath to play us.
yes, they I bet they were gutted and burning his efigy when he won these honours and created one of the best training centres in English football.
Worthington Cup 2001, FA Cup 2001, UEFA Cup 2001, FA Charity Shield 2001, UEFA Super Cup 2001, Worthington Cup 2003
His overall record at Liverpool is crap too. I pray he doesn't do the same to us:
Games 307
Games Won 160
Games Drawn 73
Games Lost 74
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The first half was absolutely wretched. There's no other word for it. I was genuinely embarassed watching it. Arsenal were excellent, but that doesn't explain why we were unable to string two passes together when we did have the ball, or why we so witlessly gave the ball back to them. They should have been out of sight at half time.
I know we've got terrible injury problems, but some of our worst offenders today (and last week) were players who are normally first choicers.
How is it acceptable for a top flight professional footballer to be as fat and out of shape as Richard Dunne? Collins too looked like he'd been on meths before the match, and his witless hoofs out of defence were depressingly predictable. Warnock I have totally lost patience with, he just looks like a disaster waiting to happen these days. What on earth has happened to him?
And as for John Carew ... I've defended him in the past, as he's scored goals, but we really need to be rid of him at the earliest opportunity. I know he's just back from injury, but he was an absolute fucking disgrace today, no other word for it. No application, no desire, no stamina, nothing. He clearly does not give a fuck. If he wasn't lumbering around, he was limping about looking for the excuse to be taken off.
In fact, the fastest he moved all day was when he saw his number held up on the board. Yet still, there were people round by us applauding him. What fucking idiots.
Improvement in the second half, and no doubt in the second half of the season when we get some of those injured players back, but I do think that the first half of this season is showing us a few unpleasant home truths about some of the established players we have on our books.
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I hear what you're saying TV but I'm sorry I can't warm to the guy.
I know his win rate of 50% at Liverpool beats O'Neills 42% with us, but I look down and see a schoolteacher devoid of Passion
when I'm looking for someone who's going to inspire both the team and dare I say it...myself!
I've got my ticket for Wednesday and I'll run the gauntlet trying to get in and out of the swamp in one piece but I can't recall been the last time I've been so concerned about what the result will be in a derby in recent times.
Hope I'm wrong .
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Josef Venglos, Billy McNeil, David O'Leary, Gerard Houllier...as far as I'm concerned they're all the same bloke.
Not one Liverpool supporter said anything positive about Houllier, the French hate him as he was part of the set up
that f*cked up their World Cup
Yet when the system that he put in place won them the World Cup and the European Championships they were less upset.
And all the trophies that he won with Liverpool - if there aren't any Liverpool fans who can't think of anything positive to say then they all have shorter memories than I'd previously thought.
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Josef Venglos, Billy McNeil, David O'Leary, Gerard Houllier...as far as I'm concerned they're all the same bloke.
Not one Liverpool supporter said anything positive about Houllier, the French hate him as he was part of the set up
that f*cked up their World Cup - yet we welcome him with open arms. Already I'm sick at not being able to watch Match of The Day, this is like going back to the dark ages again.
Wednesday is so ominous it's untrue, never in the last 5 years has it been a better time for Small Heath to play us.
Bollocks. Give the bloke a chance, he is working with MONs players still, and has had a few months to work with the side. Jesus some people don't half overreact.
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I hear what you're saying TV but I'm sorry I can't warm to the guy.
I know his win rate of 50% at Liverpool beats O'Neills 42% with us, but I look down and see a schoolteacher devoid of Passion
when I'm looking for someone who's going to inspire both the team and dare I say it...myself!
I've got my ticket for Wednesday and I'll run the gauntlet trying to get in and out of the swamp in one piece but I can't recall been the last time I've been so concerned about what the result will be in a derby in recent times.
Hope I'm wrong .
The man comes with a very good record of winning things as manager of both Liverpool and Lyon, and he's been with us for about 5 minutes. Surely you're not so impatient as to give up on him so early?
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Josef Venglos, Billy McNeil, David O'Leary, Gerard Houllier...as far as I'm concerned they're all the same bloke.
Not one Liverpool supporter said anything positive about Houllier, the French hate him as he was part of the set up
that f*cked up their World Cup - yet we welcome him with open arms. Already I'm sick at not being able to watch Match of The Day, this is like going back to the dark ages again.
Wednesday is so ominous it's untrue, never in the last 5 years has it been a better time for Small Heath to play us.
For a start, it's not true about Liverpool supporters, secondly, what exactly do they have that makes you think they're so much better? They are due a win, as are The Albion, as are The Wolves, but that's not how it works.
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Not one Liverpool supporter said anything positive about Houllier,
One of them write two pages of positivity about him for us.
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Not one Liverpool supporter said anything positive about Houllier,
One of them write two pages of positivity about him for us.
Jamie Carragher said he was a fantastic manager ????
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I hear what you're saying TV but I'm sorry I can't warm to the guy.
I know his win rate of 50% at Liverpool beats O'Neills 42% with us, but I look down and see a schoolteacher devoid of Passion
So a bit like Arsene Wenger then?
I suppose we could always give Kevin Keegan a call? He'd probably jump up and down and punch the air in all the right places.
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As an aside, I thought the Arsenal fans were much more vocal than I was expecting them to be.
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The game is awful and we didn't play well at all. Pires can't move. John Carew is suffering from cold. He is not a Viking :( I think our team suffer from lack of Viking spirit (Mellberg/Laursen)
Let hope GH can find a powerful defensive midfield and left back with Viking spirit and blood :)
I think we need to release we need to clear out Pires, Carew, Warnock, Dunne and Friedel.
I see Newton Heath won 7-1 today thank god we didn't play them.
It is bloody freezing as I been delivering post for 4 hours and then watch the match at Villa Park.
I noticed we don't seem to have bad performance as a team when we have King Carlos Cuellar in defence.
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Really cant see where our next win will come from. There is a lack of grit and belief about the side to be fair to MON was always one thing his sides could be depended on. The ability to get the job done is badly missing. I get the feeling watching us this season that the players arent convinced by Houllier and he certainly isnt that convinced about some of the players. If only we could have got the three points against United it could have kicked off his reign. Bham by all accounts were utter pants at Fulham too so that is something. The defending from Fahey and Larsson for the Fulham goal was pathetic.
Think Bannan needs to be taken out of the firing line. People here are deluded if they thought he played well today. He was completely lost. Lets bring him on if needs be. Any chance of Reo Coker being back?
Provided Reo Coker is back and we really need him to be despite his desperate performance in the league game, here is the side I would pick midweek. Beye to come in as he will add height which will be important for the set piece marathon that the game will be, cant stand the sight of Warnock any longer though its possible that we might have to put him in midfield if Reo Coker or Collins wont make it.
Friedel
Beye, Collins, Dunne, L Young
Ireland, Reo Coker, Clark
A Young, Gabby, Downing
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Only saw the highlights and followed the game on the BBC. Pires and Carew up front was destined to fail though wasn't it?!
One of Petrov or NRC would make a big difference in my view and we need NRC back quickly. I think he may be back in training?
I thought the defence looked shocking and very porous. We definitely need more battling qualities in there.
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As an aside, I thought the Arsenal fans were much more vocal than I was expecting them to be.
Really? I thought they were by far the quietest full allocation this season.
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When are our so called experienced players going to stand up? Luke Young joined them yesterday he was atrocious. For me Ireland and del fonz looked and played alot better than Carew and pires. Only positive was clarke and bannan who although were poor in first half really had a go in the 2nd.
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What's up with the full backs lately? they've been turd.
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The full backs have been quite turd.
Anybody speak to Blackburn fans? Did Warnock always dive in at every given opportunity? Or is this something we have coached into him?
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As an aside, I thought the Arsenal fans were much more vocal than I was expecting them to be.
Really? I thought they were by far the quietest full allocation this season.
Might just be that it was the first time in yonks that I'd been in the North rather than the Holte. So maybe it's just that I was closer than normal.
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Positives - Interpol were fantastic at the Academy, had a awesome night staying at the Rotunda and waking up to see Villa Park while lying in bed.
negatives - Having to pay all my hard earned cash to watch John Carew doing fook all in a Villa shirt again...
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First half, we were totally outplayed, outpassed and it was painful to watch at times.
Second half, GH made the sub that i suggested to my mate at half time and we looked better for it early on. Arsenal had another striker to mark, we looked to get it wide and if Clark had put the easier chance he had in, then who knows, but overall, not good enough.
Bannan tried too hard yesterday, some if his crossfield passes did'nt come off, but at least he has the confidence to try it. Downing, his 2nd poor game in a row, Carew looked a bit better when Fonz was up there with him, which was'nt difficult after his first half showing, and Ireland looked lively.
As for whoever said bring Davies back, totally agree. We're short on numbers, he's got some games under his belt now and if it means we can leave Clark in midfield if Collins is out, then i'm all for it.
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injuries - accepted yes we have quite a lot. But none the less the manager has had a week to work with the team to ensure that we play the correct way and have a plan against a very good Arsenal team. I saw no evidence that he had any idea what he was doing. The horrific nature of the 1st half was mostly down to his tactics and some hideous errors from senior pros who should do better.
frankly at the moment we are a right shambles.
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I said earlier in the week that because of injuries we have to accept that we're going to find it difficult but we really didn't help ourselves in the first half.
Second was much better and we might easily have escaped with a point.
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For my sins and having nothing else to do I went to Villa v Albyon
reserves fixture at Bodymoor Heath last monday -
After 'playing' for an hour Carew & Pires were subbed ........
Carew having done zilch apart from an horrendous miss from
5yds out and the frenchman floating about in midfield without
being involved in a tackle from what I recall -
So GH plays both these guys from the start yesterday which
resulted in much the same .........a big fat zero
Whilst I accept we have injuries left right and centre, there is
no excuse for lack of committment and in the first half yesterday
there only appeared to be a couple of players actually bothered-
A friend of mine tells me that the Trinity were giving the management
both barrels at the final whistle and Gary Mc appeared to nod in agreement
(don't suppose he could do anything else in the circumstances)
I fear things will get worse before we see improvement
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I hear what you're saying TV but I'm sorry I can't warm to the guy.
I know his win rate of 50% at Liverpool beats O'Neills 42% with us, but I look down and see a schoolteacher devoid of Passion
when I'm looking for someone who's going to inspire both the team and dare I say it...myself!
I've got my ticket for Wednesday and I'll run the gauntlet trying to get in and out of the swamp in one piece but I can't recall been the last time I've been so concerned about what the result will be in a derby in recent times.
Hope I'm wrong .
The man comes with a very good record of winning things as manager of both Liverpool and Lyon, and he's been with us for about 5 minutes. Surely you're not so impatient as to give up on him so early?
A bloke who sits by me in the north stand turned round to me at the final whistle and said "Well, at least we'll get an early christmas present when they sack Houlier!".
Words almost failed me - I called him a fucking idiot.
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I hear what you're saying TV but I'm sorry I can't warm to the guy.
I know his win rate of 50% at Liverpool beats O'Neills 42% with us, but I look down and see a schoolteacher devoid of Passion
when I'm looking for someone who's going to inspire both the team and dare I say it...myself!
I've got my ticket for Wednesday and I'll run the gauntlet trying to get in and out of the swamp in one piece but I can't recall been the last time I've been so concerned about what the result will be in a derby in recent times.
Hope I'm wrong .
The man comes with a very good record of winning things as manager of both Liverpool and Lyon, and he's been with us for about 5 minutes. Surely you're not so impatient as to give up on him so early?
A bloke who sits by me in the north stand turned round to me at the final whistle and said "Well, at least we'll get an early christmas present when they sack Houlier!".
Words almost failed me - I called him a fucking idiot.
while I'm not here to advocate you calling anyone a fucking idiot, you were right.
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So much for the foreign players not fancying the cold weather.
I think the scoreline flattered us, they looked a little rocky at 3-2 but played us off the park for most of the game. The Arsenal third goal was exactly the type of chance I hoped that we would be creating with Bannan and Ireland in the team, shame that we simpy dont have a forward who makes that kind of intelligent run. I've always given Carew the benefit of the doubt but he really looks like a busted flush now, a real lack of hunger from him.
Its reassuring to know we have one of these top notch French strategists looking after things for us, I mean putting your biggest centre half up front and booting the ball up to him, thats tactical genius that.
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I was really impressed with Bannan and Clark in the 2nd half when we more than matched Arsenal. In fact I thought there efforts were inspirational considering their almost complete lack of top flight experience.
It's been said earlier that Bannan had a nightmare , but my view is that the guy who had a nightmare is Houllier for inexplicably starting with Carew and Pires who were so far off the pace that we were virtually playing with 9 men in the first half.
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No home wins over Arsenal since 1998. No home wins over Mank Utd since 1995. When the hell will we ever beat them again?
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Football is a mental game-that is to say it's all about confidence, morale etc
When we kicked off we put ourselves under pressure straight away-the effects of that were plain for all to see.
in the 1st half the Arse played with composure and sure touch-passing the ball around with confidence.
To contrast, we couldn't string 3 passes together.
They should have been 3or 4 up-but they weren't(Arse generally overplay and don't score enough when on top)
To be fair to GH he saw we were on for a tanking and took Pires off(who looked totally unable to cope with the pace of the prem)
we looked a little better in the 2nd half but we are now relying on a centre back playing in midfield to score!
Carew looked pretty forlorn and will doubtless soon be off to a lesser club
We need to invest in the Jan window to give the kids a rest-though they are generally doing us proud
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I hear what you're saying TV but I'm sorry I can't warm to the guy.
I know his win rate of 50% at Liverpool beats O'Neills 42% with us, but I look down and see a schoolteacher devoid of Passion
when I'm looking for someone who's going to inspire both the team and dare I say it...myself!
I've got my ticket for Wednesday and I'll run the gauntlet trying to get in and out of the swamp in one piece but I can't recall been the last time I've been so concerned about what the result will be in a derby in recent times.
Hope I'm wrong .
The man comes with a very good record of winning things as manager of both Liverpool and Lyon, and he's been with us for about 5 minutes. Surely you're not so impatient as to give up on him so early?
A bloke who sits by me in the north stand turned round to me at the final whistle and said "Well, at least we'll get an early christmas present when they sack Houlier!".
Words almost failed me - I called him a fucking idiot.
As I said after the Blackburn game, those behind me were saying it was time for Houllier to go when he made the substitutions!!
We badly need a couple of good results or else their numbers will grow and the "fickle supporters" tag will be thrown at us again.
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As an aside, I thought the Arsenal fans were much more vocal than I was expecting them to be.
Really? I thought they were by far the quietest full allocation this season.
I was in the middle of upper trinity for a change and Arsenal were vocal in fact for the majority of the game more vocal than the holte.
Even the NOTW called the Villa crowd "statuesque"
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3rd Goal for them was pub league defending by Dunne.
Agreed. He's been hopeless all season. Fat and rubbish.
I think he has a greater turning circle than the QE2
Its got to be his last season
When is Cuelar fit??l
3rd Goal for them was pub league defending by Dunne.
Agreed. He's been hopeless all season. Fat and rubbish.
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Anyone blaming the injuries, wait until Petrov and co. are back it will be 'Petrov is shit, too slow, he's knackered', 'NRC can't pass a ball', 'Heskey is a lummox', some people think everything will be rosy when they're all back but the truth is none of them would have made a difference today and when we had them all at the start of the season we were still poor and got lamped 6-0 at Newcastle with our first team.
That was also our first choice defence today and they're an absolute shambles.
Agree entirely
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I've said it before and was shouted down by the 'happy clappy sing while you're drowning' brigade but I'm convinced we'll be in the bottom 3 at Christmas and there will be humiliation at SHA in between.
We're in deep trouble.
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Positives - Interpol were fantastic at the Academy, had a awesome night staying at the Rotunda and waking up to see Villa Park while lying in bed.
negatives - Having to pay all my hard earned cash to watch John Carew doing fook all in a Villa shirt again...
Totally agree,Interpol were faultless and feel that Carew should never pull on the shirt again.