Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Salsa Party Animal on November 18, 2010, 05:13:05 PM
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Forget Manchester United, Liverpool and West Ham, England's real Academy of Football is... Aston Villa
By NEIL MOXLEY Last updated at 3:15 PM on 18th November 2010
In terms of youth development, Aston Villa are miles behind. They really are playing catch-up at Bodymoor Heath.
Now before you start thinking to yourself (again) that the Midlander has lost the plot, let me explain. There's a wall in the Academy area at Villa's state-of-the-art training facility, upon which are photographs of the boys who made it. The last time I looked, there were only five up there. Villa need to start gearing up the printing presses again.
So, they are light years behind where they should have been in saluting those who passed through their youth system and played in the Barclays Premier League.
The kids are alright: Marc Albrighton (centre) is the latest youth player to make the grade at Aston Villa
It's about the only criticism I can level at a youth set-up that has been more successful than any other in developing players for first-team level over the last 15 years. And I know anyone south of Watford will be pointing to Tony Carr at West Ham. Good for them. I'm still backing myself on this one.
Those on Merseyside might suggest that Villa haven't developed the likes of Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher, Robbie Fowler or Michael Owen. Top-class talent, all of them. Perhaps Liverpool, to my mind, have served English football as well as Villa.
Of course, Manchester United did too, but it's almost two decades now since the golden generation and they are only now beginning to bring another batch through. And how many are English? It's about time Villa started receiving recognition for the work they have done. And remember where you read it first.
Academy director Bryan Jones, along with Kevin MacDonald, Sid Cowans, Tony McAndrew and Steve Burns have proved that stability can pay. Jones has been in situ for the past 13 years and to my mind, not only have Villa developed players for the first-team, and England too, but they have also nurtured other talents who have gone on to have successful careers in the game.
For example, Gareth Barry,* Lee Hendrie, Darius Vassell and Gabby Agbonlahor have all gone on to represent their country. Cash brought in - around £16.5m - from the sales of Liam Ridgewell, Steven Davis, Luke Moore, Gary Cahill and Craig Gardner has paid for the staff's salaries ten times' over.
The likes of Keith Fahey and Boaz Myhill - both contracted now to other clubs in the Barclays Premier League - have also passed through Bodymoor Heath.
Of the remainder, Marc Albrighton and Nathan Delfouneso have represented England at Under 21 level. Certainly the former will go on. If Delfouneso listens and more importantly, matures, Villa's Academy staff think he is a very, very bright prospect.
Barry Bannan is now a Scotland international. Ciaran Clark has been called up to the senior Ireland squad - although I believe he should have waited and chosen England as he was their Under 19s skipper.
Personally, I really like Eric Lichaj. Not as eye-catching as some of them but he has knuckled down and waited for his chance. If he doesn't get it, expect suitors to come calling next summer.
In addition to this, we also have Gary Gardner - who (sorry Craig) they tell me could turn out to be a better player than his brother. Certainly, when I spoke about Gary to Noel Blake during the summer, England's Under 19 coach was raving about him.
On top of that, a small, powerful Austrian forward. Andreas Weimann. I've only seen him a couple of times, but when I viewed him during a pre-season friendly at Peterborough, I could see he's got an eye for goal. Similar in stature to a mini Gerd Muller.
Capping it all: Gabby Agbonlahor (right) is one of many Villa youth players to go on and represent England
So who knows what this next crop might achieve? It was MacDonald - it shouldn't be forgotten - who was convinced this lot were good enough for the first-team when he handed over his team-sheet in Vienna, containing the names of Jonathan Hogg, Lichaj, Bannan and Albrighton.
And, just like John Gregory who introduced Barry before his 18th birthday, Gerard Houllier deserves credit for taking what was a huge gamble against Manchester United.
But let's not forget where those lads were nurtured. Last Saturday's paying customers saw the benefit of that education. It's about time it was recognised.
* I know Gareth Barry was signed from Brighton in what was Brian Little's last act as Villa manager, but there was no written guarantee at that stage of his development as to what he would turn into.
Read more: Daily Mail Web site. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1330903/THE-MIDLANDER-Forget-Manchester-United-Liverpool-West-Ham-Englands-real-Academy-Football--Aston-Villa.html#ixzz15efC6aqy)
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Yay Us! Congratulations to all concerned.
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Something worth reading from the Daily Mail? shocker.
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The last time we had a wave coming through together was twenty five years ago when we had Poole, Norton, Gallagher, Glover, Bradley, Kerr and Burke. To be fair they all had decent pro careers but you could tell after a few games they weren't top notch. The lads now getting their chance look like they can actually be top flight players. Clark looks comfortable, I think Albrighton is doing great and Weimann looked good when I saw him pre-season. Theres Lichal and Hogg too but I really like the look of Delfouneso.
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Does Moxley love us?
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We've produced very good winning youth sides.
And enough numbers making the grade here and elsewhere to justify the costs.
But the true test of any youth set up should be how many of those special talents it uncovers, those players so good they save you a fortune in the transfer market.
That's where we've fallen down in the past. Whilst it's OK to have some of them in and around the squad and some of them even getting a handful of games for England, if they're not first team players for any length of time -having a big impact for us over a lengthy period- you could if anything make the argument that we've come up a bit short in that dept.
It should always be quality over quantity, I'd take one Rooney over loads of Craig Gardners, Luke and Stefan Moores et.c
Barry was probably the best of all the players we've had through the youth and reserves -and even he wasn't ours initially.
We do look like this current crop could be a notch or two above the last few but the acid test will be how GH utilises them when we have the sick bay cleared, plus when he signs his own lot. Will he still keep faith with them?
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Great write up. He knows our stuff.. I think Whittingham deserves a mention too..
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But the true test of any youth set up should be how many of those special talents it uncovers, those players so good they save you a fortune in the transfer market.
That's where we've fallen down in the past. Whilst it's OK to have some of them in and around the squad and some of them even getting a handful of games for England, if they're not first team players for any length of time -having a big impact for us over a lengthy period- you could if anything make the argument that we've come up a bit short in that dept.
It should always be quality over quantity, I'd take one Rooney over loads of Craig Gardners, Luke and Stefan Moores et.c
hhmmm yeah, but no, but no... Of course we need to find a Rooney or a... a Gerrard (jesus there are few world class English Players) but I think these players make it because of their raw talent rather than - or despite - any coaching techniques/youth academy, otherwise Everton and Liverpool would produce them much more frequently.
In an ironic sort of way I think it shows that Villa's set up is better than most because we can turn a whole host of average athletes - Ridgwell, Davis, Cahill, Gabby, Hendrie, etc etc - into premier league players, consistently over a number of years. Consistency being the key word, from that you get predictability/reliability.
The only youth set up in the UK that consistently produced players capable of the upper premiership in recent years is probably West Ham and that was hmmm ten years ago now (ferdinand, defoe, carrick, fat frank etc).
Basically what I am saying is its only luck that has stopped us finding a world class gem rather than a flaw in what our youth set up does. In addition for every Gabby we produce it means we save £XXm in transfer fees that can be transfered to other targets.
Does that makes sense? I've just got back from the pub...? *hick*
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Does Moxley love us?
He's a local lad and a good journo, but he's actually a nose.
I think its more about loving local football.
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Good article i think these youngsters we have got now are the real deal and with a few more coming through the future looks bright for us.
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Basically what I am saying is its only luck that has stopped us finding a world class gem rather than a flaw in what our youth set up does.
I agree.
The examples given were Gerrard and Rooney, both of who were born in Liverpool making them natural kids for Liverpool and Everton to spot. I think a greater achievement is Man Utd, who scouted the likes of Giggs and Beckham from further afield.
Maybe that's our one fault in that our prospects coming through are only from our immediate vicinity*. Were we to improve the scouting at this level what would our excellent accademy do with the cream of the entire country, if not the worlds, 12 and 13 year olds?
*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
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*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
How did we find Bannan by the way?
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*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
How did we find Bannan by the way?
Doug Ellis was making a speech at a scottish lock, demonstrating how had first invented the bagpipes, when he noticed some biys playing football. One of them was a small lad but reminded Doug of his own son...
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Wasn't he encouraged to come here from Celtic's youth system?
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Herd and Lowry are Aussies, Clark is Irish and I'M sure Hogg is a northerner, as was Cahill and Ridgewell a southerner
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And Lichaj is obviously a Yank.
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*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
Lichaj, Lowry? theres another one from Australia as well but I cant mind his name
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Basically what I am saying is its only luck that has stopped us finding a world class gem rather than a flaw in what our youth set up does.
I agree.
The examples given were Gerrard and Rooney, both of who were born in Liverpool making them natural kids for Liverpool and Everton to spot. I think a greater achievement is Man Utd, who scouted the likes of Giggs and Beckham from further afield.
Maybe that's our one fault in that our prospects coming through are only from our immediate vicinity*. Were we to improve the scouting at this level what would our excellent accademy do with the cream of the entire country, if not the worlds, 12 and 13 year olds?
*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
[/quoteBasically what I am saying is its only luck that has stopped us finding a world class gem rather than a flaw in what our youth set up does.
I agree.
The examples given were Gerrard and Rooney, both of who were born in Liverpool making them natural kids for Liverpool and Everton to spot. I think a greater achievement is Man Utd, who scouted the likes of Giggs and Beckham from further afield.
Maybe that's our one fault in that our prospects coming through are only from our immediate vicinity*. Were we to improve the scouting at this level what would our excellent accademy do with the cream of the entire country, if not the worlds, 12 and 13 year olds?
*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
As you would expect the club do look further afield. I know someone that works in a hotel and they get a few trialists in from abroad. A few of them have had several visits
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*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
Lichaj, Lowry? theres another one from Australia as well but I cant mind his name
Chris Herd centre midfield i think. What about the keeper Siegrest or however its spelt?
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Herd and Lowry are Aussies, Clark is Irish and I'M sure Hogg is a northerner, as was Cahill and Ridgewell a southerner
I thought Clark was of Irish decent but born over here?
Lowry and Lichaj are the obvious ones I missed!
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*I think only Weimann and Barry Bannan are from outside the Midlands?
Lichaj, Lowry? theres another one from Australia as well but I cant mind his name
Chris Herd centre midfield i think. What about the keeper Siegrest or however its spelt?
He is Swiss.
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I thought Clark was of Irish decent but born over here?
Born in Harrow according to the Beeb.
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I feel it's important that we hoover up all the local talent. And what's to stop us when any budding youngster in the area can see what's going on down at Bodymoor Heath. It galls me when we see a Brummie lad showing some real ability popping up elsewhere...not that there's been a dearth of them in the last 10 years mind.
I get immense pride seeing our local lads doing so well.
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I thought Clark was of Irish decent but born over here?
Born in Harrow according to the Beeb.
Fair enough - still counts as 'out of area' in terms of the point I ws making though!
Of the players we've had that have 'made it', excluding Barry as we poached him:-
Gabby
Craig Gardner
Liam Ridgewell
Luke Moore
Gary Cahill
Lee Hendrie
Darius Vassell
J Lloyd Samuel
Myhill
Not sure about the origins of the last two, but only Ridgewell and Cahill are from outside of the Midlands?
And of the current batch we're excited about, the Fonz and Marc are local and Clark (Harrow) and Bannan (Scotland) from further afield. Still shows we're quite reliant on local talent.
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It galls me when we see a Brummie lad showing some real ability popping up elsewhere...not that there's been a dearth of them in the last 10 years mind.
Lescott and Michah Richards spring to mind.
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Ciaran's parents are Irish. Hence the Gaelic spelling of his name (ie not 'Kieron'), although it's missing an accent on the second 'a' - ''Ciarán''.
Anyway...don't we also have a couple of other continentals in the academy? What happened to those Swiss (or were they French?) twins, Yago was the name of one of them I think.
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Fair enough - still counts as 'out of area' in terms of the point I ws making though!
Of the players we've had that have 'made it', excluding Barry as we poached him:-
Gabby
Craig Gardner
Liam Ridgewell
Luke Moore
Gary Cahill
Lee Hendrie
Darius Vassell
J Lloyd Samuel
Myhill
Not sure about the origins of the last two, but only Ridgewell and Cahill are from outside of the Midlands?
And of the current batch we're excited about, the Fonz and Marc are local and Clark (Harrow) and Bannan (Scotland) from further afield. Still shows we're quite reliant on local talent.
We poached J Lloyd from Charlton didn't we?
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I agree the youth system seems to go from strength to strength. I think we get our fair share of talent from outside the midlands. We're somewhat disadvantaged by the fact that London, merseyside, greater manchester and the north east have tended to be hotbeds of genuinely outstanding young talent, less so the west midlands.
If you think about the truly top players over the last 20 years, I can't think of a single Brummie - maybe Collymore. I think most of the really top players have come from one of those areas I name above?
London: Terry, Cole (x2), Beckham, Ferdinand, Sheringham, Hoddle? Pearce
NE: Shearer, Beardsley, Gascoigne, Waddle, Robson
M'side: Rooney, Gerrard
wider GM: Scholes, Platt, Owen
edit: plus the best youngsters villa have produced seem to have been mainly outside the WM, with the exception of Gary Shaw? (Little, Cowans, Yorke, Barry)
Main other ones I can think of were Lineker (Leics) James (not sure)
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Anyone that watches the Academy will confirm that there are more
outstanding youngsters coming through the ranks ............
Derek Williams a centre back and Jordan Graham a right sided
midfield player in u'16 stand out (but what do I know)
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jack grealish too... i havent seen him myself, but i am told by friends in the know, who i trust. that he is something very special...
there is another too who is meant to be excellent whos name escapes me, and like the three mentioned in this post, are being fast tracked a year or two ahead of their age group...
graham looks extremly skillful, and a bif lad too with pace, but his delivery looked a little suspect when i saw him in the victory sheild... not sure if that was down to poor movement of the others, as it was shocking, or whether he just needs to work on this area... but, i have only seen one game of his, and he is only 15, so i am not really in a position to comment too much...
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Anyway...don't we also have a couple of other continentals in the academy? What happened to those Swiss (or were they French?) twins, Yago was the name of one of them I think.
yago and damon... swiss / spanish... both are gone...
yago is a cheeky little shit who chatted my missus up in sutton... she rang me all excited that she had met a villa player, and he then told her while she was on the phone to me that it didnt matter that she had a boyfriend!
fair play to him for trying though... lol...
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For me, the best thing about our whole youth set up is the way they get the kids playing. As has been evident over these last few months, the kids are comfortable with the ball at their feet. They also give it the full Ron Saunders, something that every Villa player no matter the age or experience should be aware of. Whilst Kevin MacDonald obviously never had that extra something to be manager, he's one hell of a coach.
The other thing of note is how many times our youngsters have commented over the years about the talent of Sid. A true legend that never got the national credit he deserved. I'm so happy he's in there working alongside Houllier, keeping those young 'uns in check.
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Anybody have any idea how the dutch Centre half that we converted into a forward is coming along? Have'nt heard him mentioned for a while but was highly rated 6 or so months back
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halfhuid... he scores a few and is a big lad, but tbh, i cant really see much of a future for him at the villa...
might be being harsh, but i just dont see anything special in him... same as james collins jnr...
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Has Forrester been dumped?
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hes out on loan somewhere in scotland...
last i heard he was probably on his way out due to his attitude...
shame really, as he has a lot of ability...
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Whittingham has made it more than L Moore surely? But he's from Nuneaton so another midlander.
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Whittingham has made it more than L Moore surely? But he's from Nuneaton so another midlander.
Didn't Wittingham get released from Coventry or did we just nick him off them.
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How did we find Bannan by the way?
Looked behind the waste paper bin and there he was.
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What's happened to Kurt Bakholt? And Alex Sperr?
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In an ironic sort of way I think it shows that Villa's set up is better than most because we can turn a whole host of average athletes - Ridgwell, Davis, Cahill, Gabby, Hendrie, etc etc - into premier league players, consistently over a number of years. Consistency being the key word, from that you get predictability/reliability.
The only youth set up in the UK that consistently produced players capable of the upper premiership in recent years is probably West Ham and that was hmmm ten years ago now (ferdinand, defoe, carrick, fat frank etc).
Basically what I am saying is its only luck that has stopped us finding a world class gem rather than a flaw in what our youth set up does.
I think Man Citeh have had a pretty good track record of bringing kids through; SWP, Richards, Ireland, Hart, Onouha, Johnson, Sturridge, Boyata, Etuhu.
A few of those have gone on to have decent international careers (baffling as that may be in the case of SWP) and most would generate a decent fee if/ when sold. The sale of SWP alone a few years back was more than we received for the likes of Cahill, Ridgewell and co combined.
I also don't think it can be just written off as 'luck' that we haven't had a major talent making the grade since Barry (Cahill possibly excepted). Part of the function of any good academy worth it's salt- as well as actually training these players- should be sourcing them in the first place. How did Lee Sharpe fall through the cracks all those years ago? How come the likes of Lescott (who was a Villa fan) ended up at Wolves, Sturridge at Man City and so on. And that's just the players on our doorstep.
Our location in the centre of England should be an advantage it procuring more talent from the north and south, with the possible selling point that any player breaking through with us might have more of a chance of first team football here than they would at one of the big northern/ southern clubs.
This is not in anyway an attempt to put the boot into our set-up, I'm as encouraged as most by the good work and dedication Sid, McAndrew and co have put in. I just think at times there's too much of a rush to pat ourselves on the back (understandable as that may be). I'd be wary of complacency setting in, if we're really saying that bringing through the likes of Ridgwelll, Luke Moore and Craig Gardner is plenty good enough. It's not.
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Darius had all the skills to be a top class player - but not the self-belief. O'Leary could have helped, but he couldn't be bothered, the stupid arsehole.
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I don't think I've ever seen a player look so comfortable at international level and yet so unconvincing for his club.
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The sale of SWP alone a few years back was more than we received for the likes of Cahill, Ridgewell and co combined.
That wouldn't have been the case had any of those also gone to Chelsea at the height of their spending madness.
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I'd be wary of complacency setting in, if we're really saying that bringing through the likes of Ridgwelll, Luke Moore and Craig Gardner is plenty good enough. It's not.
good job we aren't then.
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Forgive me John, when I see articles headed England's Real Academy of Football and plenty of fans on this thread seemingly in agreement it kinda runs contrary to that.
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Chelsea wouldn't have been interested in them, they weren't in our plans and went to Bolton and Blues.
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I think Man Citeh have had a pretty good track record of bringing kids through; SWP, Richards, Ireland, Hart, Onouha, Johnson, Sturridge, Boyata, Etuhu.
I also don't think it can be just written off as 'luck' that we haven't had a major talent making the grade since Barry (Cahill possibly excepted). Part of the function of any good academy worth it's salt- as well as actually training these players- should be sourcing them in the first place. How did Lee Sharpe fall through the cracks all those years ago? How come the likes of Lescott (who was a Villa fan) ended up at Wolves, Sturridge at Man City and so on. And that's just the players on our doorstep.
daniel sturridge is a villa product...
he was poached when 14 by coventry with house and cars, and then sold to man city...
he is no more a man city product than barry or lloyd-samuel are ours...
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Also I dont think that Lescott slipped through the net, more that we didn't rate him as highly as Wolves did. It can happen.
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joleon lescott wasnt happy with villa due to some treatment of his older brother aaron while he was in the academy...
think it was something to do with his injury treatment.. cant remember the exact details though...