Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: hawkeye on November 13, 2010, 09:30:13 PM

Title: Something special Going on
Post by: hawkeye on November 13, 2010, 09:30:13 PM
Despite the injurys, the departure of our previous manager at an inconveniant time, the Bobby Mac period and some worrying performances. Was today the day that we come to believe that the future is very bright. Houlier bringing experience and a new way of playing, a great support team in Cowans and Mcalister, the obvious talent from our youth accademy and our younger players comiting thier future to the club. I am not expecting too much from this season except some exciting football and the creation of a base to move forward but after todays performance i am feeling more excited about The Villa than i have for a very long time
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: gervilla on November 13, 2010, 10:19:12 PM
Well for a season that I was ready to write off when MON  spat the dummy out and buggered off and since then has seen so many points chucked away from winning positions it aint looking soo bad. We have an injury list the like I havn't seen for many years, and week after week new kids are being introduced to the first team and excelling. There IS alot to be pleased with at Villa this season, so far.
If we could just manage to se games out when we are winning we would be flying.
Bright future indeed.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2010, 10:35:18 PM
I think this is covered in the "Is  Houlier doing the right things" thread.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: bertlambshank on November 13, 2010, 10:38:44 PM
I think this is covered in the "Is  Houlier doing the right things" thread.
And Dave's thread about injuries.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: avfcpg on November 13, 2010, 11:04:27 PM
Sod it, we deserve another thread about this !!

I'd like to think so but lets see if they can string a few performances like that together. Need to take that into the next game....throw in a fit Gabby & Reo, Ireland finding some form, Clark, Cueller getting fit, Heskey back, plus a few new signings and it suddenly looks good.

Sadly I think the perfomances of Bannan, Clark even Hogg probably means we may be seeing Petrov out of the equation. As solid and hardworking as he is, these guys just can add more to the team.

Being as many were getting very worried, isn't it nice for it to be tuned on it's head...for now.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: usav on November 13, 2010, 11:24:16 PM
Well for a season that I was ready to write off when MON  spat the dummy out and buggered off and since then has seen so many points chucked away from winning positions it aint looking soo bad.

I decided to add them up......

Stoke (1) - they probably deserved a draw, so I would say we threw away 1, not 2.
Spurs (1) - same, a win would have been fortunate, but certainly didn't deserve to lose.
Fulham (2) - definite 2 thrown away here.
United (2) - as above.

That would give us an extra 6 points and the same as Arsenal in third.

I think the future looks pretty bright.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: KevinGage on November 14, 2010, 12:05:00 AM
I think the good things we've heard about the youth and academy players for years actually has a degree of credibility for a change.

We're all capable of it, talking young players up when the first team or certain key individuals are off the pace. "Throw the kids in!"  Ignoring the fact that the kids are rarely better.

We build them up to ridiculous levels and then can't understand why they end up at the Olbiyun or lower.

This current lot do look like they could back the trend, a few of them anyway.

Thing is, will GH persist with them when he has a full quota of players to pick from again (nevermind when he signs his own) ?

Time will tell I guess.

It concerns me that he brought Dunne back straight from injury even after Carlos had played well, so he might adhere to the MON philosophy of picking players on reputation over form. If that's that's the case it might be harder for some of the kids to stay in the side.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Dave on November 14, 2010, 12:17:26 AM
Well for a season that I was ready to write off when MON  spat the dummy out and buggered off and since then has seen so many points chucked away from winning positions it aint looking soo bad.

I decided to add them up......

Stoke (1) - they probably deserved a draw, so I would say we threw away 1, not 2.
Spurs (1) - same, a win would have been fortunate, but certainly didn't deserve to lose.
Fulham (2) - definite 2 thrown away here.
United (2) - as above.

That would give us an extra 6 points and the same as Arsenal in third.

I think the future looks pretty bright.
Every team has those though. A Blackpool, Everton or Wolves fan could argue just as easily that we took two points more than we might otherwise have done from their respective games.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Somniloquism on November 14, 2010, 12:33:24 AM
Although I agree with your point and throw Everton in their as well as a match where we got more then maybe deserved, USAV is actually talking about matches when we actually took the lead first and not ones with last minute goals so those matches you mentioned don't count in this instance.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: MonsXI on November 14, 2010, 12:34:53 AM
Well for a season that I was ready to write off when MON  spat the dummy out and buggered off and since then has seen so many points chucked away from winning positions it aint looking soo bad.

I decided to add them up......

Stoke (1) - they probably deserved a draw, so I would say we threw away 1, not 2.
Spurs (1) - same, a win would have been fortunate, but certainly didn't deserve to lose.
Fulham (2) - definite 2 thrown away here.
United (2) - as above.

That would give us an extra 6 points and the same as Arsenal in third.

I think the future looks pretty bright.

Sunderland at least a point?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: usav on November 14, 2010, 12:58:20 AM
Yes, thank you, I missed that one.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: willywombat on November 14, 2010, 06:48:48 AM
Yep, I reckon you've nailed it Hawkeye
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: JD on November 14, 2010, 06:54:35 AM
Totally agree as well. I was getting pissed off last season, now I'm proud of the team again. Dave Woodhall summed it up in the prematch when he said the result wasn't relevant but how Villa played was. Today was the first time for ages I've seen us play against Manure with no fear at all for a very long time.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Fergal on November 14, 2010, 08:39:52 AM
Well for a season that I was ready to write off when MON  spat the dummy out and buggered off and since then has seen so many points chucked away from winning positions it aint looking soo bad.
Well according to my calculations we only need to win another couple of games and we will win the prem... :)
Seriously, things are starting to look a bit better than when MoN Fecked off because he realised that he had made a bollox of the squad.

I decided to add them up......

Stoke (1) - they probably deserved a draw, so I would say we threw away 1, not 2.
Spurs (1) - same, a win would have been fortunate, but certainly didn't deserve to lose.
Fulham (2) - definite 2 thrown away here.
United (2) - as above.

That would give us an extra 6 points and the same as Arsenal in third.

I think the future looks pretty bright.

Sunderland at least a point?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: eastie on November 14, 2010, 10:05:13 AM
we will only improve from here -great confidence for thr lads to take the game to utd like that and with injuries healing and new signings we have the makings of really exciting times ahead.

so pleased to have a manager who can adjust tactics and use his squad and substitutions , we need to shift out the deadwood like sidwell, davies, carew, and add 3 or 4 top quality players, but the youngstars like clark, bannan and albrighton really could be huge players in our future.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 14, 2010, 10:20:03 AM
I think the good things we've heard about the youth and academy players for years actually has a degree of credibility for a change.

We're all capable of it, talking young players up when the first team or certain key individuals are off the pace. "Throw the kids in!"  Ignoring the fact that the kids are rarely better.

We build them up to ridiculous levels and then can't understand why they end up at the Olbiyun or lower.

This current lot do look like they could back the trend, a few of them anyway.

There's one big difference between this lot and those we've had before. In the past they've looked promising for the youth and reserves. This time they're doing it in the first team.

No, make that two differences. The second is a first team coach who knows and trusts them.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: MonsXI on November 14, 2010, 10:39:37 AM
Do you reckon it's been easier for this batch of youngsters too breakthrough because they've done it together? For example Hogg and Bannan yesterday they have played together many times in the reserves and know each others game! As bizarre as it sounds it may well have helped seeing their buddy from the 2nd string alongside them than one of our more experienced midfielders.

Sid Cowans' involvement at first level may well be a massive help to this generation of kids, a master-stroke by GH? I think so!

Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: jembob on November 14, 2010, 10:44:59 AM
We have a squad that finished sixth last year and would have done better but for MON's madness. This year has the addition of new, youthful talent and a manager who has the capacity to take us on a level so I've always thought that we could have another good season, possibly an excellent one.
This year the league is very open and apart from the title race we aren't out of anything. World-beating, glorious-footballing, press-wank-inducing Spurs are only a couple of points ahead of us and a good run of results will see us right up there. By January we should have a full strength squad and hopefully a couple of crafty signings which would set us up for a very strong finish to the season and I would be disappointed by anything less than 6th again. Yesterday's game might just set this team up for another really strong run and I'm looking forward to it. Either way this season will be entertaining.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: richard moore on November 14, 2010, 10:45:05 AM
Way, way too early to be making any predictions. Ask me again 10 games into next season when all the kids are still playing the way they have so far and we have just outplayed Bolton or some such other very physical team away from home...
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: The Man With A Stick on November 14, 2010, 10:59:12 AM
This year the league is very open and apart from the title race we aren't out of anything. World-beating, glorious-footballing, press-wank-inducing Spurs are only a couple of points ahead of us and a good run of results will see us right up there. By January we should have a full strength squad and hopefully a couple of crafty signings which would set us up for a very strong finish to the season and I would be disappointed by anything less than 6th again. Yesterday's game might just set this team up for another really strong run and I'm looking forward to it. Either way this season will be entertaining.

As I was saying to a 'nose at work on Friday, I can see us finishing the season quite strongly for a change.  For the last few years the manager had playing the same tried-and-trusted players up until March and then wondering why they were burned out all of a sudden.  This year we've got a number of players to come back who have barely figured and some like Delph who won't be back until the New Year.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: darren woolley on November 14, 2010, 11:00:21 AM
I do think there is something special going on seeing that game yesterday as made me so proud of the lad's the youngster's are doing exceptionly well and long may it continue.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: regular_john on November 14, 2010, 11:31:42 AM
This season will definitely pick up over the coming weeks. Once we get everyone fit again and Gabby gets up to full speed, we'll look a top side. For the first time in a long time we'll have players that can come off the bench and change a game (assuming Bannan, Clark etc. get relegated to the bench when the first teamers get back).

First team will probably look like this (maybe Dunne instead of Cuellar?)...

---------------------Friedel---------------------
Young-------Cuellar-------Collins------Warnock
A. Young-------NRC-------Petrov-------Downing
-------------Agbonlahor------Heskey-------------

which could leave a bench of...

Guzan, Dunne, Beye, Ireland, Albrighton, Delph, Carew

which still leaves Davies, Clark, Lichaj, Bannan, Hogg, Delfouneso and Weimann as backup/reserve. The best part is we have a manager who is willing to use these players, and we know that they can all do a job. Options! We have proper options for the first time in years!!
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: villasjf on November 14, 2010, 11:34:20 AM
A great bunch of lads coming through and playing with no fear, a manager who trusts them and they are playing good football, not even any moaning about the injury list from the manager, he just gets on with it, I am very proud of the youngsters coming through.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: N'ZMAV on November 14, 2010, 11:36:23 AM
An honest bunch of lads.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: JUAN PABLO on November 14, 2010, 11:40:16 AM
Certain injuries of certain players has been a blessing in disguise....     
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: DrGonzo on November 14, 2010, 11:53:27 AM
First team will probably look like this (maybe Dunne instead of Cuellar?)...

---------------------Friedel---------------------
Young-------Cuellar-------Collins------Warnock
A. Young-------NRC-------Petrov-------Downing
-------------Agbonlahor------Heskey-------------

which could leave a bench of...

Guzan, Dunne, Beye, Ireland, Albrighton, Delph, Carew

which still leaves Davies, Clark, Lichaj, Bannan, Hogg, Delfouneso and Weimann as backup/reserve. The best part is we have a manager who is willing to use these players, and we know that they can all do a job. Options! We have proper options for the first time in years!!

This is exactly what worries me. When Petrov is fit again he shouldn't be able to walk back in to the first team.  Bannan has really begun to settle in to the role, the through ball he played for Downing yesterday was within a yard of being perfect, could Petrov have made that pass?  Or indeed the pass for Albrighton at Fulham.  He has brought something to the midfield we lack when the CM's are Reo and Stan, vision and the ability to split the opposition defence with a pass.  Now that Gabby is coming back to fitness that ability is even more crucial as we have a striker of such genuine pace that can maximise the threat.
  I would also like to see Clarke to be given another chance to play in the holding role.  If he can settle down and get used to the passing side of the midfield job we would have a player genuinely capable of shielding our defence. 
The players currently out injured should not be allowed to stroll back into the first team, they should have to prove that the position is theirs by right.  Since these injuries have occured we have begun to raise our game, we look much more dangerous going forward and if we can find the balance that allows us to start keeping clean sheets regularly we could really start to think big.
I'm not saying we should keep playing the youngsters every game, but they are progressing so well because they are being given a chance to show what they are capable of.  Waving them off back to the reserves with a cheery 'thanks boys, good job.' is not going to help them progress further.  If we are in agreement that this season is about rebuilding let's see who is worthy of a place at this club.  This could be the perfect opportunity to rid ourselves of some of the overpaid players who are only interested in the wallets and replace them with youngsters who are playing for the passion and joy of the game.

Rant over.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Chris Smith on November 14, 2010, 12:19:51 PM
When Petrov is back I'd expect to see him with Bannan not instead of him. It was that kind of steadying, experienced influence that we missed yesterday.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: AV82EC on November 14, 2010, 12:21:49 PM
When Petrov is back I'd expect to see him with Bannan not instead of him. It was that kind of steadying, experienced influence that we missed yesterday.

I agree with Chris on this.  Hogg for all his battling qualities didn't add to the game the way Petrov would have done.  It would also allow Bannan an element more freedom to get involved in play making further up the pitch.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: regular_john on November 14, 2010, 12:23:05 PM
Dr Gonzo - I'm in complete agreement. The reality though is that the more experienced players are likely to get the nod the majority of the time. My point was that for the first time in years the 'best 11' doesn't seem so obvious, we finally have players (and academy graduates at that) that are going to really push the more experienced players for their spot. It's great to have selection headaches like this.

On the topic of Petrov and NRC though, I'd imagine that as captain and vice captain they'll walk back in to the team regardless of form.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: cb on November 14, 2010, 01:12:48 PM
Well right now I would very strongly disaggree that Bannan should lose his place in the team when the first teamers come back. He has added a level of quality to our midfield which is just not there when Petrov AND NRC play together. The key is the AND; I think that we do need some experience in the midfield positions, so there's a very strong argument that only ONE of Petrov or NRC should return alongside Bannan. They would then add either NRCs aggression or Petrov's positioning into the mix; something that had we had yesterday, would have won us the match!

There is certainly a place for these returning first teamers, but as things currently stand, not at the expense of either Albrighton or Bannan. Clark, Delfouneso and Hogg are a bit behind this, but I think they are showing that they can at the very least be rotation players. I'd like to see Clark returned to his CD position, as I don't think moving him around from position to position helps him too much in the long run. I'd like to see Delfouneso occasionally play in Ash's withdrawn striker role, as I think that would suit him better, not to mention allow the possibility of resting Ash, Downing or Albrighton. Hogg has shown he can come in and do a job, but he is the one I am least convinced by right now, but it's certainly good to have him!!!
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on November 14, 2010, 01:20:25 PM
When Petrov is back I'd expect to see him with Bannan not instead of him. It was that kind of steadying, experienced influence that we missed yesterday.
I've a feeling that Houllier has a defensive midfield replacement in mind for Petrov in January.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 14, 2010, 01:31:33 PM
what will be good is if we have an experienced head like Petrov to come off the bench, and play occasionally. I like the idea of Petrov being used sparingly for the rest of the season. He still has a lot to offer on the pitch as well as in a mentoring capacity off it.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on November 14, 2010, 01:37:13 PM
what will be good is if we have an experienced head like Petrov to come off the bench, and play occasionally. I like the idea of Petrov being used sparingly for the rest of the season. He still has a lot to offer on the pitch as well as in a mentoring capacity off it.
Agree totally.
Be ideal to have experience like his on the bench.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: PeterWithe on November 14, 2010, 03:01:33 PM
When Petrov is back I'd expect to see him with Bannan not instead of him. It was that kind of steadying, experienced influence that we missed yesterday.
I've a feeling that Houllier has a defensive midfield replacement in mind for Petrov in January.

Didn't the General's son say that midfield is GH's most pressing concern so that makes sense.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: usav on November 14, 2010, 03:05:53 PM
I think the only question once everyone is fit is, who should play alongside Bannan?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on November 14, 2010, 03:41:58 PM
When Petrov is back I'd expect to see him with Bannan not instead of him. It was that kind of steadying, experienced influence that we missed yesterday.
I've a feeling that Houllier has a defensive midfield replacement in mind for Petrov in January.

Didn't the General's son say that midfield is GH's most pressing concern so that makes sense.

Surely that was before Bannan had shown what he was capable of!
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: eastie on November 14, 2010, 04:11:45 PM
I'd expect to see a striker and midfielder brought in as the 1st signings at the expense of Carew and sidwell- the more options the better, bannan has proved what he can do and I think he will play a big part as will reo- coker and petrov.

Houllier was a great fan of rotation at anfield and keeping players fresh and I'm sure they will all play their part- it will be good to get to march without our lads being totally knackered for once.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: KevinGage on November 14, 2010, 04:15:03 PM


There's one big difference between this lot and those we've had before. In the past they've looked promising for the youth and reserves. This time they're doing it in the first team.

No, make that two differences. The second is a first team coach who knows and trusts them.

Agreed Dave.

In the (admittedly limited) few reserve games and pre season friendlies I've seen over the past few years it always struck me that the rookies could do the basics better than some members of the first team, namely control the ball, pass accurately and find space.

I wondered if this was just players looking good in non competitive games and whether it would translate to the first team but it looks like it has. Credit to all involved.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Holte L2 on November 14, 2010, 05:00:40 PM
Yesterday was quite superb, and there is something special going on. I just hope we stick faith in the kids. I think it's important we stick faith in the kids and add some much needed experience to the squad. Somebody like Patrick Viera would be ideal just for his experience and to guide the young lads. I think it's time for us to get rid of the dead wood i.e Beye, Davies, Salifou, Carew. I'd like a quality striker and an experience midfielder as previously stated. When everyone's fir I'd like to see the following line-up;

                                                     Friedel

Young            Cuellar                 Dunne                Warnock

Albrighton    Reo-Coker           Bannan                     Downing

                                    Young
             Agbonlahor



Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: TopDeck113 on November 14, 2010, 06:16:46 PM
No one would be happier to me if two or three of this crop become first team regulars for the next four or five seasons.  I would, however, be cautious to say that that will come to pass.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Boatengs_Forehead on November 14, 2010, 08:01:45 PM
Our performance yesterday almost reminded me a bit of Germany in the world cup.  A young side with loads of pace and abilty, and more importantly nothing to lose.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 14, 2010, 08:43:06 PM
When Petrov is back I'd expect to see him with Bannan not instead of him. It was that kind of steadying, experienced influence that we missed yesterday.
I've a feeling that Houllier has a defensive midfield replacement in mind for Petrov in January.

Didn't the General's son say that midfield is GH's most pressing concern so that makes sense.

Didn't the General also say that we have a crop of very promising youngsters which GH can work with? 

Maybe the midfield problem has sorted itself especially with Delph waiting in the wings.

Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: PeterWithe on November 14, 2010, 08:46:53 PM
Mirror reckons GH has £30m war chest to spend in Jan, I've always wanted to know the point in which some money becomes a warchest.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: timeoutbigbar on November 14, 2010, 08:49:39 PM
Mirror reckons GH has £30m war chest to spend in Jan, I've always wanted to know the point in which some money becomes a warchest.

Indeed.  Does Blackburn's £5million transfer budget class as a warchest?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: eric woolban woolban on November 14, 2010, 09:04:15 PM
Mirror reckons GH has £30m war chest to spend in Jan, I've always wanted to know the point in which some money becomes a warchest.
They even bought a Warhurst out of Jack Walker's warchest.
Indeed.  Does Blackburn's £5million transfer budget class as a warchest?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Bad English on November 14, 2010, 09:11:56 PM
I would like to know how Houllier will be able to 'swoop' while clutching a voluminous 'war chest'
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: timeoutbigbar on November 14, 2010, 09:18:27 PM
I can't imagine him swooping anywhere, warchest or not.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Mazrim on November 14, 2010, 09:36:45 PM
Nice to see everybody on board with the youths now.

It wouldn't suprise me if Houllier has a fair amount to spend.
I also think that will used towards a defensive midfielder for absolute certain, a striker and full back cover.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: usav on November 14, 2010, 09:51:02 PM
Nice to see everybody on board with the youths now.

It wouldn't suprise me if Houllier has a fair amount to spend.
I also think that will used towards a defensive midfielder for absolute certain, a striker and full back cover.

I think he may have to free up a little more salary space as well - which if that means getting rid of Sidwell and one out of Heskey and Carew, I will be happy.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: gervilla on November 14, 2010, 09:57:12 PM
Nice to see everybody on board with the youths now.

It wouldn't suprise me if Houllier has a fair amount to spend.
I also think that will used towards a defensive midfielder for absolute certain, a striker and full back cover.

I think he may have to free up a little more salary space as well - which if that means getting rid of Sidwell and one out of Heskey and Carew, I will be happy.
If Sidwell and one out of Carew and Heskey are sold I doubt if you will be the only one happy. Add to that Beye,Davies, Salifu and Osbourne and wait for the street parties and fireworks displays.
I have a good feeling that GH can spot a turkey from 100 yards so there should be most of the aboved named heading through the exit door.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Concrete John on November 14, 2010, 10:03:44 PM
I have a good feeling that GH can spot a turkey from 100 yards so there should be most of the aboved named heading through the exit door.

He should be able to - he signed a few for Liverpool!!

Seriously though, results aside I'm liking what Houllier is doing so far and transfer dealings is what will make or break him, IMO.  He has the added complication of balancing his purchases with allowing the kids room to develop, so it's actually more difficult than just going and buying a whole new team.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 14, 2010, 10:31:54 PM
I have the feeling that what Gerard is doing tallies a lot closer to Randy's vision than O'Neill's last couple of years did. Think Ajax Academy, but with the financial clout to keep the star players and add to them from elsewhere.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 14, 2010, 10:57:10 PM
And it's not just us who thinks so:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1329647/Gerard-Houllier-fool-Barry-Bannan-runs-Manchester-United.html?ITO=1490&utm_source=footballURLs&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: KevinGage on November 14, 2010, 10:58:26 PM
I have the feeling that what Gerard is doing tallies a lot closer to Randy's vision than O'Neill's last couple of years did. Think Ajax Academy, but with the financial clout to keep the star players and add to them from elsewhere.

That might be a realistic aspiration. (Not so much the Ajax part, you're talking about a pretty special crop there. In previous years anyway.)

Other clubs in England have had to sell their best young players to balance the book and merely survive.

If we bring through a special crop there is no reason why most of them can't sustain long careers with us. There may be on occasion a special offer that deserves consideration. Or a player so good that he needs a bigger stage to justify his potential.

But we're a pretty big club as it is and VP is as good a stage as most.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 14, 2010, 11:02:42 PM
Nice to see everybody on board with the youths now.

Was there ever a point where everyone wasn't on board with the youths?
If anything we tend to cut our youngsters more slack because we desperately want them to do well, which is not a bad thing by the way!
I know you bang on about them more than most but that doesn't mean the rest of us aren't rooting for them.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: KevinGage on November 14, 2010, 11:06:29 PM
In fairness to Maz there were quite a few saying ' Delfouneso not good enough/ Bannan too small' et.c. There seemed to be far more of those comments knocking about rather than give them time, they'll come good.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Mazrim on November 14, 2010, 11:11:35 PM
The last few weeks have been about who is and who isnt going to make it with a fair amount of harsh criticism and negativity towards a few of them. Now its mostly positive. That's all I am saying.
I havent mentioned anybody not rooting for the kids. You'd have to be a moron or a supporter of another club not to.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Mazrim on November 14, 2010, 11:22:29 PM
I have the feeling that what Gerard is doing tallies a lot closer to Randy's vision than O'Neill's last couple of years did. Think Ajax Academy, but with the financial clout to keep the star players and add to them from elsewhere.

Not only do I think this is the best way for us to operate and the best chance of future success, it's also the way that gives me most satisfaction.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 14, 2010, 11:54:07 PM
I have the feeling that what Gerard is doing tallies a lot closer to Randy's vision than O'Neill's last couple of years did. Think Ajax Academy, but with the financial clout to keep the star players and add to them from elsewhere.

Not only do I think this is the best way for us to operate and the best chance of future success, it's also the way that gives me most satisfaction.

Here, here.

I'm looking forward to the day that one of them demands a move to Manchester United/Madrid etc as that will mean that we'll have unearthed a gem.  Ajax have to accept that their youth players will often leave and we will too, although I think we may be able to keep them happy for longer as the EPL is still a big draw (i.e. pays well).
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: hawkeye on November 14, 2010, 11:58:21 PM
I have the feeling that what Gerard is doing tallies a lot closer to Randy's vision than O'Neill's last couple of years did. Think Ajax Academy, but with the financial clout to keep the star players and add to them from elsewhere.
And this is exactly the regime that will enable us to progress consistantly now and in the future. Organisations thrive when you have the right people in the right place working to a common agenda based on shared values.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: hawkeye on November 15, 2010, 12:05:52 AM
i agree dante and would also say that at some point we have to draw a line in the sand and not allow the richer clubs to buy off our opportunity
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: timeoutbigbar on November 15, 2010, 12:10:11 AM
I get the feeling people who have progressed through our youth academy since the ages of 10-11 will have a fair bit of loyalty to the club who gave them their chance.  Milner moved on, having given the fans the impression he would be here for a while, but i don't know why we thought he would be loyal, left leeds then left newcastle..With our own youth i wouldn't be quite so worried.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 15, 2010, 12:13:20 AM
I think we'll all be pleasantly surprise how much Houllier gets to spend in January.

Believe it or not, decent players do move in that window.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Colhint on November 15, 2010, 12:26:05 AM
2 things, xavi and iniesta have played together for the best part of 10 years together, they know what the other will do.
secondly I was getting fed up listening about Wilshire, Ramsey, Rodwell, Henderson, Wellbeck, Martins, machieda and the likes and knowing our youngsters were really good but geeting no mention.

I think Barrys game for scotland could be massive for him if he does really well.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: hawkeye on November 15, 2010, 12:28:12 AM
I think we'll all be pleasantly surprise how much Houllier gets to spend in January.

Believe it or not, decent players do move in that window.
i cant see us doing much business in January, there is an obvious need to thin some deadwood which wont happen until the summer, our squad looks threadbare because of injurys, it wont look that way in a couple of months
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: KevinGage on November 15, 2010, 12:41:21 AM
I get the feeling people who have progressed through our youth academy since the ages of 10-11 will have a fair bit of loyalty to the club who gave them their chance.  Milner moved on, having given the fans the impression he would be here for a while, but i don't know why we thought he would be loyal, left leeds then left newcastle..With our own youth i wouldn't be quite so worried.

The Mail reporter on that Q&A session a few weeks back was at pains to point out how desperate the likes of Albrighton and Bannan were to play for the club and how keen they were to make an impression.

May have been stating the obvious but you can take it for granted at times and assume that all players at the club at any one time should want to play for us. I'm not sure it's always the case. Ok, the likes of Sidwell and Davies probably do want to play. But if it isn't with us I don't think they'd have too much hesitation going elsewhere. Should other clubs even want them, of course.

Players who come through the ranks probably have more of a 'feel' for the club, for want of a better word. They've  been here for so long that they probably see Sid and co as surrogate parents at this stage. Whereas for other senior players we're possibly just one of many stopping off points in their careers.

Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: timeoutbigbar on November 15, 2010, 12:58:13 AM
I get the feeling people who have progressed through our youth academy since the ages of 10-11 will have a fair bit of loyalty to the club who gave them their chance.  Milner moved on, having given the fans the impression he would be here for a while, but i don't know why we thought he would be loyal, left leeds then left newcastle..With our own youth i wouldn't be quite so worried.

The Mail reporter on that Q&A session a few weeks back was at pains to point out how desperate the likes of Albrighton and Bannan were to play for the club and how keen they were to make an impression.

May have been stating the obvious but you can take it for granted at times and assume that all players at the club at any one time should want to play for us. I'm not sure it's always the case. Ok, the likes of Sidwell and Davies probably do want to play. But if it isn't with us I don't think they'd have too much hesitation going elsewhere. Should other clubs even want them, of course.

Players who come through the ranks probably have more of a 'feel' for the club, for want of a better word. They've  been here for so long that they probably see Sid and co as surrogate parents at this stage. Whereas for other senior players we're possibly just one of many stopping off points in their careers.



Indeed, exactly my point, and i certainly hope so
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 15, 2010, 03:28:26 AM
xavi and iniesta have played together for the best part of 10 years together, they know what the other will do.

Germany have recently promoted their younger players in groups as well because of the "telepathic" benrfit you mention above .  In fact klinnsman pretty much went as far as to say that it was now their policy to do this.  Talent is obviously the single biggest factor in how good a player/team is, however there is a degree of logic to promoting Albrighton/Bannan/The Fonz/Clark over the same period.

The Man U "you'll never win anything with kids" team and the leeds team of Bowyer/Woodgate/McPhail/Milner etc also spring to mind.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: timeoutbigbar on November 15, 2010, 03:35:18 AM
It is a good policy to promote younger players at a similar time, as it carries on a sense of togetherness with the youth which gives them confidence.   Im sure the fact that Marc, Barry, Cieran and Jon all know each others game fairly well helped a great deal when going into the game last Saturday
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: oldtimernow on November 15, 2010, 08:42:09 AM
thing is as I see it, this crop of youngsters have been Villa for a few years now and Villa means something to them.

The older expensive johnnies dont have it in their DNA/blood to really care as say we do.

Stick with them and enjoy the ride, even when the going gets tough....we are Villa
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: sfx412 on November 15, 2010, 09:31:36 AM
I can't see that any player be he good enough would not swap for a club who pays daft wages and  a  better chance to win things.
I'd be very surprised if GH didn't swap out the kids for experienced players either, when fit.
The kids have done well in several games, I doubt they are able to maintain it for a season, half a season even.
I have not seen any move to suggest that the edict that players on high wages doing nothing need to be moved to reduce the wage bill will be dropped, the use of Kids does help here of course.
At the moment we have several of Mons buys, including Ireland offering little of what they should be and a  draw against Utd great though it was, does not change that.
Its a great option to have, the way they have stepped up, their performances have been one of the few bright points this season, and it fits with the points made pre Mons exit by General K, but out short term success will only be helped by their involvement it will not be the basis of our short term future.
I'd love it to be so mind.
I do feel GH will be better in the market, or shall I say more in line with Randy's desires, but there remain doubts on his ability in the market based on his past jobs.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Concrete John on November 15, 2010, 09:45:01 AM
The Man U "you'll never win anything with kids" team and the leeds team of Bowyer/Woodgate/McPhail/Milner etc also spring to mind.

Bowyer was a signing from Charlton as opposed to a youth product.

But I agree with the principal that having a few coming through together helps.  For instance Bannan's ball for Marc's goal at Fulham is a sign of how well they know eachother's games.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Walmley_Villa on November 15, 2010, 10:09:18 AM
It feels like we finally shook off the O'Neil hangover on Saturday. The team and crowd rose to the occassion in the second half and despite the result I left the ground buzzing.

Only things we need to do now is to reintroduce "We love you Villa we do", "VILLA, VILLA, Villa, Villa........." at corners (sung very fast) and Der Der Der Der, Der Der Der Der, Der Der Der Der Der Der Der Der...." at the start of When the Villa go marching in... and of the course the "Bells are Ringing" and it will be just like the old days!!!
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: JJ-AV on November 16, 2010, 11:32:46 AM
I'm the most excited about our future since we beat Blackburn away to go third in Feb 2009.

We've some lovely footballers in Bannan, Downing, Ashley, Ireland and Petrov alongside the directness of Gabby and Albrighton and the promise of Clark and Delfouneso as well.

We're playing some decent stuff, looking to keep the ball and boss sides. We might not be more effective points wise but it'll be better to watch and it'll be very interesting to see how the kids grow over the next 3-4 years.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Dr Butler on November 16, 2010, 11:50:19 AM
I'm the most excited about our future since we beat Blackburn away to go third in Feb 2009.

We've some lovely footballers in Bannan, Downing, Ashley, Ireland and Petrov alongside the directness of Gabby and Albrighton and the promise of Clark and Delfouneso as well.

We're playing some decent stuff, looking to keep the ball and boss sides. We might not be more effective points wise but it'll be better to watch and it'll be very interesting to see how the kids grow over the next 3-4 years.

thats how I see it, we will probably have a few blips along the way(especially against more physical teams) but we shall soon see the benefit of these superb young players being together whilst learning their football trade.

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: not3bad on November 16, 2010, 12:49:18 PM
And it's not just us who thinks so:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1329647/Gerard-Houllier-fool-Barry-Bannan-runs-Manchester-United.html?ITO=1490&utm_source=footballURLs&utm_medium=twitter

Missed out Ciaran Clark in that list!
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: not3bad on November 16, 2010, 12:50:42 PM
At the moment we have several of Mons buys, including Ireland offering little of what they should be

Ireland an MON buy?  Questionable.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: alanclare on November 16, 2010, 12:58:14 PM
At the moment we have several of Mons buys, including Ireland offering little of what they should be

Ireland an MON buy?  Questionable.

More like an arm-twisting part-exchange.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: LeeB on November 16, 2010, 01:09:36 PM
At the moment we have several of Mons buys, including Ireland offering little of what they should be

Ireland an MON buy?  Questionable.

It's not questionable. it's just fucking wrong.

However, had Stephen been a roaring success from the word go, I'm sure Malcolm would have claimed O'Neill had nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on November 16, 2010, 01:11:06 PM
At the moment we have several of Mons buys, including Ireland offering little of what they should be

Ireland an MON buy?  Questionable.

It's not questionable. it's just fucking wrong.

However, had Stephen been a roaring success from the word go, I'm sure Malcolm would have claimed O'Neill had nothing to do with it.
Didn't The General say that MON was in on the deal?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 16, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
He did and MON was.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Concrete John on November 16, 2010, 01:53:16 PM
The thing with Ireland is that anyone would think taking him in part-ex was a good idea.  However, from what we've seen since the question is does he want to be here?  Not sticking up for MON here, but when the player is sat infront of a manager before signing, then surely a lack of hunger for the move would show through?  So without a manager at the time we lost that.  I don't think we can blame the last manager for it as we were all agreed on here it was right, but the club lacked that final 'yes or no' so just did it anyway. 
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: PaulTheVillan on November 16, 2010, 01:58:33 PM
I'm sure 99% of Managers would have had Ireland as part of the deal, as they know what he is capable of.

Hopefully he'll stay and we'll see that in a Villa shirt.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: not3bad on November 16, 2010, 02:18:12 PM
However, from what we've seen since the question is does he want to be here?

Well, he's here now, so he can try to settle or move to Stoke?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Concrete John on November 16, 2010, 02:35:05 PM
However, from what we've seen since the question is does he want to be here?
Well, he's here now, so he can try to settle or move to Stoke?

Indeed.

Personally, what i think we'll see is him make cameo appearances through the rest of the season and then get moved on in the summer.  I just don't think Gezza fancies him as a player. 
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Mister E on November 16, 2010, 03:11:08 PM
However, from what we've seen since the question is does he want to be here?
Well, he's here now, so he can try to settle or move to Stoke?

Indeed.

Personally, what i think we'll see is him make cameo appearances through the rest of the season and then get moved on in the summer.  I just don't think Gezza fancies him as a player. 
Agreed - maybe even in January if a credible buyer emerges.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Billy Walker on November 16, 2010, 03:45:33 PM
According to an interview with Phillipe Auclair of "France Football" (that has just been on Talksport) GH rates these Villa youngsters as some of the best he has ever worked with.  All things considered, that is praise indeed.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: D.boy on November 16, 2010, 03:55:42 PM
Anyone who has seen the reserves play last season and this will know we have some great young talent in the wings waiting for an opportunity with the first team. I know Mazrim follows them and future is very promising as long as we get the balance right.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: LeeB on November 16, 2010, 04:28:11 PM
At the moment we have several of Mons buys, including Ireland offering little of what they should be

Ireland an MON buy?  Questionable.

It's not questionable. it's just fucking wrong.

However, had Stephen been a roaring success from the word go, I'm sure Malcolm would have claimed O'Neill had nothing to do with it.
Didn't The General say that MON was in on the deal?

He did, but O'Neill still didn't sign him.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: The Left Side on November 16, 2010, 04:54:18 PM
After MON left and losing Milner, this season could have gone down the pan (and still might) but the signs are very encouraging from B6 at the moment with the youth development, an established manager with european experience and coping with the enforced squad rotation. There is something special going on... proud history bright future!
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Villa'Zawg on November 16, 2010, 04:59:26 PM
Delfouneso making his first start (I think) for the u21s in the next few minutes.

Available on fatv

 Germany U21s v England U21s - Live stream  (http://falive.octopusmt.com/)
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Shrek on November 16, 2010, 09:29:22 PM
Houllier reckons these are the best young players he has ever worked with.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Colhint on November 16, 2010, 09:32:12 PM
Houllier reckons these are the best young players he has ever worked with.

where did you hear that?
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: Shrek on November 16, 2010, 09:59:58 PM
French reporter on the radio today. He seems to talk to Houllier after most games and also commented on how he thinks Villa are going places and that Houllier is really excited and enthusiastic about Villa's future.
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: damon loves JT on November 16, 2010, 10:05:48 PM
Did he ask about swooping with his warchest? Or, 'ow you say, *poitrine de guerre*
Title: Re: Something special Going on
Post by: stevenjos on November 16, 2010, 11:46:21 PM
"you never win anything with kids"
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