Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rancid custard on November 06, 2010, 12:12:16 PM
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Reading the 39th game thread has given me an idea. If you were to Start the beautiful game all over again as a club or part of the new F.A. how would you do it? What are the abiding rules that you would set That could never be broken or reneged on?
For me there would be Goal line technology, a co-op across the leagues of a set ticket price never to change with some kind of profit participation so clubs don't go into administration, which is closely regulated by independent accountants, A wage cap per league with no player at top level earning more than 20k per week, Terracing returns and agents are done away with.
Over to you.
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I don't think set ticket prices would work especially well unless you qualify it. For example, if it cost £10 to go and see both Chelsea and Barnet, you'd have a massive waiting list to see Chelsea and nobody would bother to go and see Barnet because the worth isn't the same. If you had a set ticket price per league it might work better.
As for agents, I do agree for the main part they seem like scum. But what happens if you're a player who doesn't have the brass neck to demand stuff from your club? You'll end up on shitty wages for the rest of your career while the club can do what they like. An independent arbiter, such as the PFA, could be the way forward. Agents were a good thing when they first arrived - read Colin Schindler's 'Fathers Sons and Football' for a shocking account of how footballers were treated up until the sixties by their clubs - but it's gone too far the other way because agents want to be rich, and they can only do that by making their clients rich.
I don't want to see terracing back. Not because of Hillsborough, but because it sucks.
My own personal wish is to do away with the massive hype that surrounds football these days. People are so impatient for success and they don't enjoy it when it comes. Players think they're untouchable and fans demand the manager's head if they don't get a sniff of a trophy in two years (six weeks if they're Geordies). I don't have a solution to this though, sorry.
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I think the thread title could be the title of a 10,000 word research thesis, but off the top of head I would:
(1) Bring the whole league pyramid under the auspices of one organisation with all TV money being pooled and distributed in a way that ends the massive disparity between the PL and the rest.
(2) Ensure that a club's spending on wages is set at a fixed, sustainable percentage of turnover. This spending would be vigorously audited and the punishment for transgressing stringent - relegation one division for a first offence, two division for a second offence, etc.
(3) The money put into a club by an owner to be at a maximum level for the division that the club is in. All such money is an interest free loan that the club must repay within five years of the money being received. Clubs can only take on long-term debt if it is used for improving the infrastructure, e.g. a new stand, training ground, etc.
(4) No clubs can be bought if the debt used to buy the club is then transferred to the the club's books, e.g. the Glazers.
(5) No individual or holding company can own more than 49.9% of a club. Compulsory supporter representative on club boards with full voting rights.
(6) Fixed squad size, with a minimum number of home-grown players, including two who must have come within the immediate geographical radius of where the club is based. A maximum number of three non-EU players.
(7) The end of the transfer system. A player is contracted to their club for the duration of their contract, at the end of which they can either renegotiate or find a new club. Clubs will though receive financial compensation for players they have developed through their academy, at a level the reflects the division of the club at which they sign their first professional contract.
(8 ) Clubs can set their own ticket prices, but a percentage of the match revenue to be shared with the away side, perhaps based on the size of the away support. The fixture list published at the beginning of a season is a contract that a club has with its season ticket holders - the TV rights holder will financially compensate those who have bought season tickets for every match that is rescheduled.
(9) A Champions League open only to the Champions of the country, with TV money added to the pool detailed in (1). All other European competitions revert to two-legged knock-out.
(10) Goal-line technology for all international, European and top two division fixtures.
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i would revamp the champions league... rename it the champions cup, and make it a 2 legged knockout competition where you had to actually be champions to compete in it, just like the old days... none of this 4th placed rubbish being entered into it... i would also reduce the revenue given to clubs from this competition, which would stop it being the financial be all and end all to clubs and players...
regards tv money for all leagues, this would be paid to the league system, and we then distrubute it fairly amongst the whole game, not just the premier league... balances out the finances between the leagues, makes it impossible to give silly wages, etc...
would make a transfer and wage cap that all clubs had to adhere to.... and no extra "bonus's" or ways around it for the shifty bastard clubs...
all the problems in the leagues, throughout europe, are down to unfair financial elements... mainly the glass ceiling made of diamonds champions league "unofficial european super league"...
and i would shoot olivier holte, shaun custis and mick dennis...
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I think the thread title could be the title of a 10,000 word research thesis, but off the top of head I would:
(1) Bring the whole league pyramid under the auspices of one organisation with all TV money being pooled and distributed in a way that ends the massive disparity between the PL and the rest.
(5) No individual or holding company can own more than 49.9% of a club. Compulsory supporter representative on club boards with full voting rights.
I particularly like the above. I think fan representation on the board in line with the stated percentages will have a huge beneficial impact because ticket prices will be more "fan" focused removing a whole number of the games problems. Also speculation (a la Hick and Gillett) will be a lot harder/likely.
My own rule/changes:
(a) Fixed squad size and salary cap. Any players brought through the youth system (which are eligible to play for an EU country) would be outside the salary cap. Qualification for europe would also add a player (maybe two) to the maximum squad size.
(b) In addition to your point (1) above, I would include the international team within the pyramid. A significant portion of the TV money etc must be spent on youth coaching, school pitches, etc.
Great question by the way.
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Give away clubs a share of gate money, as per the McGregor Doctrine, established to help ensure healthy competition.
Any club going into administration to be relegated automatically.
No more than three live TV games per weekend.
No fixture to be televised more than two years out of three.
Games which are to be moved for other reasons to be prioritised for live matches.
Any new grounds/stands built in the top divisions to be allowed to contain a standing area.
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Footballs made out of leather and a good weight.
Remove the Bosman ruling.
One TV game on a sunday and no more.
Offer back to UEFA 3 Champion League places.
Safe standing at grounds.
No ticket to cost more than £25.
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rename the game Footie, entrance to the ground only if wearing a jester hat and current replica shirt.award extra points for cheating, ban any talk of pre sky football,astroturf all playing surfaces, unlimited substitutions, divide the game into 4 quters to allow more advertising, play music for thow ins, corners and free kicks, sycronised dancing for goal celebrations, double the size of the goals, outlaw contact of any sort, put simon cowell in charge of the whole game, make all football grounds exactly the same, all referess should be employed by sky,
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All teams that have changed their name to be forced to change back. So it'll be welcome back to Newton Heath, Dial Square, St Domingo's, Christ Church and our dear neighbours SHA. Aston Villa will then get the number 1 ball in the FA cup draw and the inevitable easy draw it entails.
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If I ran the game I would introduce a transfer and salary cap, so there would be a fair playing field.
Any club who went into adminstration would be relegated.
Away teams would receive 25% of gate receipts, but only if they sold their allocation of tickets.
Admission to each ground in each division would be the same (for season tickets and general admission).
Clubs would have to have kit sponsors for 3 years minimum and during this time could not change their home kit and only their away kit once.
The Champions League would become the European Cup again and only league winners and holders could qualify. Once knocked out that's it, you don't enter another competition.
The Cup Winners Cup would be reintroduced and the Uefa Cup would be a maximum of 4 teams per country and be a knock out competition.
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A transfer cap is an interesting idea.
Say £20m deficit (i.e. after any transfer income) in any season (i.e. two transfer windows). If you're promoted then you're allowed £5m more. Any unspent allocation can be carried over to the following season.
With a transfer cap AND wage cap the players power and the clubs ability to spend will greatly reduce. Therefore it is likely that club owners could/would make more money. There would therefore need to be some regulation that ensured that it is reinvested into the game.
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Remove the Bosman ruling.
How will that help anything?
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Stoppage time wouldn't exist, do what they do in rugby where they stop the clock if there is a serious injury/incident and then play on from there. As soon as the clock reaches 90 minutes the team can carry on playing until the ball goes dead and then the final whistle goes.
Then hopefully this rule would stop wrecking my weekend.
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Stoppage time wouldn't exist, do what they do in rugby where they stop the clock if there is a serious injury/incident and then play on from there. As soon as the clock reaches 90 minutes the team can carry on playing until the ball goes dead and then the final whistle goes.
Then hopefully this rule would stop wrecking my weekend.
I like your thinking, but in all seriousness I'm getting hugely fucked off by injury time randomness. It seems that first half injury time is added on again at the end of the game which leads to ridiculous amounts of injury time such as yesterday and last Sunday (and of course, the famous six minutes that appeared at Old Trafford). Statistically only about two thirds of a game is played anyway because the clock isn't stopped every time there's a throw in or a goal kick, so to add on five minutes of 'injury' time as a sop is pointless anyway.
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It seems that first half injury time is added on again at the end of the game which leads to ridiculous amounts of injury time such as yesterday and last Sunday (and of course, the famous six minutes that appeared at Old Trafford).
Is it not just that more 'stuff' happens in the second half? You tend not to see too many first half substitutions so there is less injury time there.
Two of the four minutes were down to the fact that there were four second half substitutions alone, without taking into account any other breaks in play.
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- Goal line technology
-Third umpire for major contentious issues (penalties, offsides and the like)
-Revert to the original offsde law. The modification was well intentioned, but this 'second phase' nonsense is getting beyond farcical. I think most can see the difference between a player on the opposite side of the pitch to where play is actually happening and clearly not interfering with play being given the benefit of the doubt over a player chasing the ball into the box, impacting on play, being offside and not being given offside.
-Make refs accountable and required to explain contentious decisions (if the above hasn't alleviated it) in post match interviews. They shouldn't be allowed to duck and hide when they fcuk up - managers and players aren't.
-Scrap the ridiculous yellow card rule for over celebrating a goal. Outside of a player celebrating in front of opposition fans there is no call for it. It's just petty, and marks officialdom out to be Head Master/ traffic warden types - that isn't always the case. As it stands the refs have no choice but to enforce it as if they don't they get marked down.
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Retrospective yellow cards for diving.
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I'd get the hell rid of that absurd rule that a player who receives treatment HAS to go off the field. It has not stopped play-acting, as was the intention in the first place, and now just punishes teams for getting injuries. It's utterly surreal.
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Remove the Bosman ruling.
How will that help anything?
It would bring down wages and stop players thinking they can sign a long contract,and ask for a move with 18 month's to go.
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You can't just remove the Bosman ruling. It was a legal decision made by the courts, not a regulation from FIFA, and can't be changed unless the EU fundamentally changes most of its labour rights laws - which it obviously won't.
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You can't just remove the Bosman ruling. It was a legal decision made by the courts, not a regulation from FIFA, and can't be changed unless the EU fundamentally changes most of its labour rights laws - which it obviously won't.
Football is the only sport in the EU with it.Why the club's don't get together and fight it in the European court is beyond me.
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I would imagine because, with the millions at their disposal to find the best lawyers, they have received the advice that it's impossible. Otherwise, why wouldn't they? Like you say, the ruling is hardly in their interests.
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I'd also like to see straight red for a dive or shirt pulling, lets try to claw back a bit of gentlemanly conduct.
I like the fixed price per league idea and the play to the 90 after the game stops for injuries too.
This one's a bit of a personal choice but I'd like to do away with the celebrity culture that happens with footballers in this day and age. In addition to doing away with agents and letting the P.F.A. controlling such matters, I would do away with the whole endorsements side of things, I don't want to see them peddling aftershave or cars, or releasing ghost written autobiographies when they're only half way into their playing careers, Charity/community work should be compulsory and rather than be treated with kid gloves when they get into a spot of bother, the book should thrown at them to diminish the whole I'm above the law mentality some of the players seem to have.
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Any club caught with fans making racist chants fined £1,000,000. If the fine system that the FA had set up stung any club to the point of financial in-sustainability and possible extinction for any of those bringing the game into disrepute that'd make those idiots who love their clubs think twice.
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Remove the Bosman ruling.
How will that help anything?
It would bring down wages and stop players thinking they can sign a long contract,and ask for a move with 18 month's to go.
And what's the alternative? A player not able to move ever if his club says that he can't.
If a club has the right to ditch a player at the end of his contract (say, Marlon Harewood) then a player should have the right to leave at the end of the contract as well (say, Gareth Barry).
There's no loyaly in football, but that applies to the clubs just as much as it does to the players.
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If I ruled the football world.....
1. limit all wages to a maximum of 1,000 per week [I bet 100% of them would except cus they would find it hard to get that money outside of footbal, they can earn what they like via sponsorships deals ala Beckham Rooney et al...]
2. with the above in place reduce entrance tickets to £5 max
3. TV money can be retianed by the clubs to plough back into player development and improve financial and supporter conditions.
4. one shirt for at least two seasons [released on the first saturday in July every other year]
5. Send off any player that argues / abuses refs [our own Mr Young would have to watch himself as I am sick of his constant moaning to the refs]
6. Same as above for the manager
7. scrap first half injury time [all games finish the first half and start the second at the same time] and add it all to the end of the second half
8. 3pm Saturday kick off for at least 90% of league matches
9. SHA renamed 'dog shit alliance'
10. Player contracts actually meaning something
11. Managers to stay in place for the full season
12. That fat geordie who is always on MOTD and SKY with his shirt off should be sent overseas as part of the UK famine re leaf effort
13. And finally... ban the chuffing England band from every football ground in the world [I am sick of the great escape theme!!!]
Mark
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1. Ref & Assistants have to review the entire game on TV within 48 hours of the match being played. They have the power to rescind yellow/red cards due to errors and to award yellow/red cards for things they missed such as diving, cheating and so forth.
2. Greater sharing of TV money between top and bottom of football pyramid as others have suggested.
3. Max 3 non-EU players per team. Minimum homegrown rules as per other suggestions.
4. Controversial one - Off side only in the box. This would encourage the use of width, passing to feet (little point trying to play over the top hoofs when the defence have men back covering wingers) and also set up more one on one opportunities due to spreading out the players on the pitch.
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scrap the premier league, tell any clubs that dont want to be a part of the new league div 1, to go and set up there own European league, and take the SKY money with them.
hopefully this would mean the 'big 4' plus 1 or 2 others would slide away, and we would be left with 3 oclock kick offs on a saturday, no SKY live super sundays, not much money to overpay players, most of the foriegn owners would go because there would be no money in it anymore,
oh, and only league players can play for England, those that played in the European league would be banned, we still wouldnt be much good, but at least those left would be wanting to play.
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1. Bring back safe standing
2. Make it obstruction when you shield the ball to allow it to run out play - this has boiled my piss for years
4. Never to the 39th game
5. Never to Celtic or Rangers in the PL
6. Only two lives games a week, the other 8 kick off at 3pm on Saturday
7. Sack the FA and get real football supporters with common sense to make decision like ticket allocations for Wembley and getting rid of Club Wembley seats behind the goals.
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I would like one challenge option with red hankie for manager each half to review referee decision. To stop idiots referee making too many mistakes. Similar to NFL but it can only be available to top level football.
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The most important things to me would be a cap on how much clubs can get from corporate sponsorship and ending prize money based on league positions.
These 2 things are the main cause for the grotesque inequalities that we see in our game today.
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It seems that first half injury time is added on again at the end of the game which leads to ridiculous amounts of injury time such as yesterday and last Sunday (and of course, the famous six minutes that appeared at Old Trafford).
Is it not just that more 'stuff' happens in the second half? You tend not to see too many first half substitutions so there is less injury time there.
Two of the four minutes were down to the fact that there were four second half substitutions alone, without taking into account any other breaks in play.
Although I specifically referred to Saturday's game, it does appear to me that stoppage time is entirely arbitary. Yes, more 'stuff' mainly happens in the second half but sometimes the time added on is so great as to be incomprehensible. It's not so much something I would expect to see changing but a personal observation.
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Money has always talked, albeit to a lesser extent in the past, and there's so many back door ways of getting around the official rules, so I'd go with the following to level the playing field:
(1) Only 2 subs (of which one is a goalkeeper)
- hopefully fewer players would be happy playing in the stiffs than warming the bench and therefore prefer to go to join a 'lesser' team.
- would also diminish the (average) player's wage bargaining power as there would be fewer top clubs wanting to pay excess wages if the player was unlikely ever to make the team.
(2) Maximum squad size (to say 18)
- would further minimise squad rotation and thereby the advantage of the wealthier/more indebted clubs.
- in the event of injuries etc a club would be allowed to promote reserves to the main squad provided they had not played more than x games at the level of the league the first team played in,.
(3) Share gate money - a l Mr Woodhall's suggestion
(4) Play all games at 3pm on a Saturday or alternatively 7.30pm on a Wednesday
(5) Play cup replays the Wed after the Sat
(6) Only have 1 European Competition
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Remove the Bosman ruling.
How will that help anything?
It would bring down wages and stop players thinking they can sign a long contract,and ask for a move with 18 month's to go.
And what's the alternative? A player not able to move ever if his club says that he can't.
If a club has the right to ditch a player at the end of his contract (say, Marlon Harewood) then a player should have the right to leave at the end of the contract as well (say, Gareth Barry).
There's no loyaly in football, but that applies to the clubs just as much as it does to the players.
Are you saying that football has improved under Bosman?
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Remove the Bosman ruling.
How will that help anything?
It would bring down wages and stop players thinking they can sign a long contract,and ask for a move with 18 month's to go.
And what's the alternative? A player not able to move ever if his club says that he can't.
If a club has the right to ditch a player at the end of his contract (say, Marlon Harewood) then a player should have the right to leave at the end of the contract as well (say, Gareth Barry).
There's no loyaly in football, but that applies to the clubs just as much as it does to the players.
Are you saying that football has improved under Bosman?
That element of it, without doubt.
Players have a contract, if they don't have a contract then they go to a different job.
It works in any other form of work, why would you say football was any different?
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Give a massive pay rise and expense account to the bloke who runs the game and then give my secretary a good seeing to.
Seriously, here are some things I'll do most of them already mentioned.
1. Make refs accountable... Have them in a post game press conference.
2. Limit the number of non-3 o'clock on Saturday kick offs... Lets say two max.
3. Open the accounts of all clubs to independent auditors. Points deductions for those that don't make the criteria that will be pre-agreed. Say certain levels of debt.
4. New kits every two seasons.
5. Abolish transfer windows. Return to the old system.
6. Cut ticket prices... Some are totally ludicrous.
7. Champions League for champions only... Runners up compete in the UEFA Cup.
8. All takeover deals to be put before my people who will decide if they should proceed. They will administer a beefed up fit and proper person's test (that lives up to the name). If too much debt is taken out in a proposal and the club is leveraged then we will reject the deal.
9. Some kind of proper legislation to ensure fair play financially. Now a salary cap of a certain percentage turnover wouldn't work as it would ensure a natural order of clubs with the bigger clubs like United or Arsenal dominating potentially. Maybe a flat rate but even then this is difficult.
10. You see that centre of excellence... I'd build the sodding thing.
11. Set quotas for academy products and British born players in match squads.
12. Launch a drive for potential coaches to do their badges and increase the numbers of trained coaches.
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Remove the Bosman ruling.
How will that help anything?
It would bring down wages and stop players thinking they can sign a long contract,and ask for a move with 18 month's to go.
And what's the alternative? A player not able to move ever if his club says that he can't.
If a club has the right to ditch a player at the end of his contract (say, Marlon Harewood) then a player should have the right to leave at the end of the contract as well (say, Gareth Barry).
There's no loyaly in football, but that applies to the clubs just as much as it does to the players.
Are you saying that football has improved under Bosman?
That element of it, without doubt.
Players have a contract, if they don't have a contract then they go to a different job.
It works in any other form of work, why would you say football was any different?
Bloody hell Dave,I think I am coming round to your point of view! Well done.
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5. Abolish transfer windows. Return to the old system.
Good shout. I'm fairly confident player prices would drop a bit with this. Everyone knows you need a striker, there's 3 days left and you don't want to settle on a cheaper alternative so jack up the price...
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Make time wasting with the ball IN PLAY an offence called 'not intending to make progress. Specifically targeting running the ball into the corner near the end of matches. This can sometimes start with over 5 minutes plus stoppage time to go and invariably leads to matches fizzling out.
Yes, its ok if its your team 1-0 up but so frustrating if the bbots on the other foot.
Award a free kick and they can attempt a quick launch.