Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dante Lavelli on November 02, 2010, 12:05:36 AM
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It was only a matter of time but its good to see that the cracks are already appearing. The Sun articles talks of a "city source" so it's hardly the most concrete story, however the talk of bust-ups between Toure/Milner and Adebayor/Kompany are pretty specific.
Sit back and enjoy...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3205348/Man-City-stars-want-Mancini-axed.html
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Milner can come back if he wants.
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Milner can come back if he wants.
seconded.
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Definitely. Like we all predicted he is not playing in his best position in the centre. From here I can only guess it will get worse as a new manager will no doubt want to add his own players.
Predictable, (in a way) sad and all so avoidable.
On the flip side we'd probably still have MON in charge if Milner was still with us (however, let's not debate the pro's and cons of that again...)
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Milner can come back if he wants.
for all the money in the world, was it really worth it? I know they have that word "potential" but it's a lot of expensive pieces and egos thrown together. It's going to be volatile. Man City are writing the script for how not to build a winning team, and the whole thing is as fragile as house of cards. There aren't many managers out there who will have the commanding presence to put these wankers in their place. Mourinho certainly isn't coming and I'm struggling after that to think who might be available. Barry out drinking, and Milner, playing out of position and caught up in that mess. Should have stayed and been a hero with us.
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Liked the quote from Toure's agent about the attitude from players who have been there ''a long time''. What's that in Wastelands, more than 12 months?
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We had all this 'Man City are about to implode' stuff last season and the season before that. And if it isn't Man City about to implode, it's Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal and whoever.
None of these clubs is going to implode any time soon, least of all Man City, as much as we might like to hope otherwise. That club is on a massively accelerated process of change which is necessarily going to be incredibly turbulent. What they're having to do currently, because they are starting from a very low baseline, is throw massive salaries at players to get them to go there. Once the club achieves Champions League football, which may or may not be this season, I would expect it to stabilise to a degree.
If they finish above us, like they did last year, it's 'because they spent all that money on players'. If they fail, it's 'because they spent all that money on new players'. You can't have it both ways.
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The team was never going to gel, it needs time, which the owners won't give this manager, or any manager for that fact.
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The team won't 'gel' until players go there for footballing reasons. As Hilts says, things may stabilise once they're a winning team.
Fact is, the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Barcelona, etc, will talk to a player and ask what he can offer them. At Man City, it seems the other way around - it's like they've sold the player some luxury time-share and a lot of them are simply sitting back, enjoying the ride and calling for drinks.
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Tevez is now refusing to fly back from Argentina saying he isn't fit enough.
Lolz.
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Tevez is now refusing to fly back from Argentina saying he isn't fit enough.
Lolz.
Blimey..
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We had all this 'Man City are about to implode' stuff last season and the season before that. And if it isn't Man City about to implode, it's Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal and whoever.
None of these clubs is going to implode any time soon, least of all Man City, as much as we might like to hope otherwise. That club is on a massively accelerated process of change which is necessarily going to be incredibly turbulent. What they're having to do currently, because they are starting from a very low baseline, is throw massive salaries at players to get them to go there. Once the club achieves Champions League football, which may or may not be this season, I would expect it to stabilise to a degree.
If they finish above us, like they did last year, it's 'because they spent all that money on players'. If they fail, it's 'because they spent all that money on new players'. You can't have it both ways.
Or they might implode.
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Been saying they would implode for ages on various threads here so doesn't come as any surprise. They have thrown together some of the biggest mercenary footballers going such as Tevez and Adebayor with others who are patently over hyped, Jimmy being a unfortunate but good example. Funnily enough, I think their biggest problem is that you can have all the money in the world but it doesn't get you away from the paucity of really good players available who are going to take you to the next level as shown by the lack of top class talent on show at the World Cup....
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Milner, playing out of position and caught up in that mess. Should have stayed and been a hero with us.
In the time he's been there he probably has an extra £1m in his bank that he wouldn't have had had he stayed, so I think he'll be OK with playing out of position in the mess.
In many respects, Man City almost have too much money. They hire a manager and give him all the money he needs, which he of course will spend. That means a large influx of players to an already big squad, so that puts some noses out of joint and they will need time to settle and discover the best side. However, due to the money spent the owners expect quick results, so when things falter they pull the trigger and the manager goes. They then hire a new manager and the process starts again.
What they need to do is say to any manager, be it Mancini or a new bloke, just work with what you've got for the season and then tell us who you want rid of. You then get a more solid base to buy and likely find that's it's two or three additions, as opposed to another large influx, and they come into a settled side with a manager firmly in his position. It won't happen, but that's what I would do!
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This happened to Chelsea under Ranieri when they first had the doe. Citeh will need to get a manager who has control and will build a team he wants rather than a load of mercenaries. As long as they still have the money they wo'nt 'implode', but it would be great if they f*cked it up with all the current players.
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I for one am glad that they are at each other's throat with all that money and big ego's it was bound to happen but i would still take Milner back.
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Tevez is now refusing to fly back from Argentina saying he isn't fit enough.
I'd have a little sympathy if he said he wasn't fit enough to swim back but how fit do you need to be to board a flight?
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We had all this 'Man City are about to implode' stuff last season and the season before that. And if it isn't Man City about to implode, it's Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal and whoever.
None of these clubs is going to implode any time soon...
Liverpool gave a pretty good impression of a side imploding at a rate of knots last year.
Looks like they're hell bent on keeping up the good work this campaign too.
What they need to do is say to any manager, be it Mancini or a new bloke, just work with what you've got for the season and then tell us who you want rid of. You then get a more solid base to buy and likely find that's it's two or three additions, as opposed to another large influx, and they come into a settled side with a manager firmly in his position. It won't happen, but that's what I would do!
In fairness to Mancini when he arrived in last Nov he gave the then current line up plenty of time to prove themselves. I think he only signed Viera on a cheap deal and Johnson from Boro in Jan, so it was virtually the same squad that Hughes left him with for the bulk of that campaign. Hardly a revolution.
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We'll see how much they have imploded in December and January when we play them twice with our 2-8-0 formation
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In fairness to Mancini when he arrived in last Nov he gave the then current line up plenty of time to prove themselves. I think he only signed Viera on a cheap deal and Johnson from Boro in Jan, so it was virtually the same squad that Hughes left him with for the bulk of that campaign. Hardly a revolution.
I think what then happened in the summer would suggest that the January window was more to do with what he COULD get in as opposed to what he wanted to do.
My point being that buying lots of new players is the easy answer and creates some of the problems we are seeing. If he had to work with less money and more with the players already there, then I think they'd be better off.
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But your initial point was that you'd say to any manager work with what you've got until the end of the season and then reassess.
Ultimately that's pretty much what happened.
He had the guts of a season there with the same squad -save for two relatively modest purchases by their standards.
I'm not going to try and second guess what his intentions really were last Jan, that only reluctance on the part of any potential selling club/ new player steered him away from an immediate revolving door policy. That might well have been the case - but I doubt it.
With their wealth they could just keep on going back until the player/ club they targeted buckled. There might be a handful of elite players who would still say no to them. But many more would have said yes.
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We'll see how much they have imploded in December and January when we play them twice with our 2-8-0 formation
Not far wrong.
I watched them play the Dingles and to be honerst, Citeh played some football that we can only dream of seeeing at VP.
Silva - what a player.
I still think there's an element of Real Madrid about them, so will try anything to win a trophy, to be a Champs League player.
I give Mancini til Xmas.
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Actually, what I said was:-
What they need to do is say to any manager, be it Mancini or a new bloke, just work with what you've got for the season and then tell us who you want rid of.
I don't remember too many players leaving Eastlands this summer?
So what you get is another large influx on top of last seasons large influx, to the point where it becomes unmanageable. They obviously don't need to do it from a financial viewpoint, but a 'sell to buy' policy would have been sensible.
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I watched them play the Dingles and to be honerst, Citeh played some football that we can only dream of seeeing at VP.
And lost. I dont dream of watching lots of nice passing and getting beat 2-1 by Wolves, cheers.
Also, even in our weakened, transitional state we managed to win there.
Anyway, they play some nice football. Of course they will with the players they've assembled. But a winning successful team needs a lot more than that. Character, resolve, motivation and purpose.
I'm not sure Man City can currently get a team together that has that in enough quantity to get anywhere near where they want to go.
And so you can see some cracks appearing already. It's what happens sometimes when you give players everything they want. Make them feel like they've made it etc.
Stephen Ireland said that even the kids are walking around there like they own the place. Its not healthy.
As Olneythelonely says: "or they might just implode."
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Actually, what I said was:-
What they need to do is say to any manager, be it Mancini or a new bloke, just work with what you've got for the season and then tell us who you want rid of.
I don't remember too many players leaving Eastlands this summer?
Robinho, Petrov, Bellamy, Ireland, Onuoha, Benjani, Weiss, Caicedo.
That's quite a few, no?
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Actually, what I said was:-
What they need to do is say to any manager, be it Mancini or a new bloke, just work with what you've got for the season and then tell us who you want rid of.
I don't remember too many players leaving Eastlands this summer?
Robinho, Petrov, Bellamy, Ireland, Onuoha, Benjani, Weiss, Caicedo.
That's quite a few, no?
Roninho was out on loan anyway. The rest didn't feature much other than Bellamy. Actually, without checking I do think Onouha got a few games.
The principle remains that there was a large influx numbers wise as they think the answer to everything is the cheque book. And it's not.
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We'll see how much they have imploded in December and January when we play them twice with our 2-8-0 formation
Not far wrong.
I watched them play the Dingles and to be honerst, Citeh played some football that we can only dream of seeeing at VP.
Silva - what a player.
I still think there's an element of Real Madrid about them, so will try anything to win a trophy, to be a Champs League player.
I give Mancini til Xmas.
Silva's not bad Tim - that is if you are watching him against Wolves or Blackpool. If he was that good, he wouldn't be at City I'm afraid. There's a reason he is not at the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid...
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Silva's not bad Tim - that is if you are watching him against Wolves or Blackpool. If he was that good, he wouldn't be at City I'm afraid. There's a reason he is not at the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid...
Considering he was bought as a def midfielder/breaker of play, Yaya has been playing some super balls through to attack. I suppose playing in such a passing league means even the worst players look better on the ball then most of the prem.
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The thing with Man City is they have one method to fix their issues. They'll keep throwing money at it until it works. While it might bring some short term wins, what it does is simply perpetuate the problem they already have. They'll replace mercenaries and egos with other mercenaries and egos and the cycle will repeat itself. Outside of Mourinho whose ego is bigger than the lot put together and has a record to back it all up, no manager in the world is going to be able to control that for any length of time.
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We'll see how much they have imploded in December and January when we play them twice with our 2-8-0 formation
I couldn't agree more. We're getting a bit "previous" with all this talk about "imploding". Just wait and see where they're at in Feb/Mar, and then decide if they've fallen to bits.
It's a nice thought tho'.....
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I wonder if Milner sat him on his arse?
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Nobody is saying they have imploded but its easy to imagine all those prima donnas and over paid shysters falling out with eachother and sulking and whatnot. As Benitez has probably said, "too many egos make the Paella a dish too rich to taste, no?"
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Silva's not bad Tim - that is if you are watching him against Wolves or Blackpool. If he was that good, he wouldn't be at City I'm afraid. There's a reason he is not at the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid...
Hit the nail on the head there.
They couldn't get players like Messi, Villa, Ronaldo, so they ended up getting Tevez, Da Silva, and Milner.
Man City don't sign the best players ... they sign the B class players. Any player with common sense will no that a team with the functionality of Man City will not succeed in the long run; no matter how much money they chuck at it.
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I remember people saying the same thing about Chelsea when Abramovic arrived and started flashing the cash. Too many egos, too many players to keep happy, not enough top class players etc. They haven't done too badly trophy wise.
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I remember people saying the same thing about Chelsea when Abramovic arrived and started flashing the cash. Too many egos, too many players to keep happy, not enough top class players etc. They haven't done too badly trophy wise.
They had Jose Mourinho.
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"Implode" is probably too strong a word but with the egos pulling in different directions they will not fulfill their potential. Its this sort of thing that gives us, well other more moderately spending clubs a chance to compete with them.
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I remember people saying the same thing about Chelsea when Abramovic arrived and started flashing the cash. Too many egos, too many players to keep happy, not enough top class players etc. They haven't done too badly trophy wise.
They had Jose Mourinho.
And the explanation for the trophies won since he left?
And didn't they finish 2nd and reach the CL semi-final under Ranieri the year before Mourinho arrived? So they weren't exactly imploding before Jose were they.
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We'll see how much they have imploded in December and January when we play them twice with our 2-8-0 formation
Not far wrong.
I watched them play the Dingles and to be honerst, Citeh played some football that we can only dream of seeeing at VP.
Silva - what a player.
I still think there's an element of Real Madrid about them, so will try anything to win a trophy, to be a Champs League player.
I give Mancini til Xmas.
They lost you silly bugger.
They've got a great collection of players but until they get a great manager they'll struggle to achieve the level of consistency required. They're not shit, they're not great, they're not going to implode but Mancini is too cautious and that will be his undoing.
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Silva's not bad Tim - that is if you are watching him against Wolves or Blackpool. If he was that good, he wouldn't be at City I'm afraid. There's a reason he is not at the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid...
Hit the nail on the head there.
They couldn't get players like Messi, Villa, Ronaldo, so they ended up getting Tevez, Da Silva, and Milner.
Man City don't sign the best players ... they sign the B class players. Any player with common sense will no that a team with the functionality of Man City will not succeed in the long run; no matter how much money they chuck at it.
I don't necessarily agree with this, though I'm yet to have my socks knocked off by a City purchase, but I do think they're buying players to weaken direct opponents. It weakened Villa, for example. It might not be a popular opinion here given the circumstances surrounding the transfer, but I think if we'd have still had Milner we'd be sitting in the top five right now.
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I read fat Baz in one of the rags this morning saying everyone was happy and life is good at city or some bollocks like that
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Aye, don't think anyone that read that tripe actually believed it. Smelt of absolute desperation.
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It just shows the grass isn't always greener.
I'm sure all those 'superstars' at Citeh always dreamed of playing for the Mighty Man City when they were little.
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We'll see how much they have imploded in December and January when we play them twice with our 2-8-0 formation
Not far wrong.
I watched them play the Dingles and to be honerst, Citeh played some football that we can only dream of seeeing at VP.
Silva - what a player.
I still think there's an element of Real Madrid about them, so will try anything to win a trophy, to be a Champs League player.
I give Mancini til Xmas.
They lost you silly bugger.
They've got a great collection of players but until they get a great manager they'll struggle to achieve the level of consistency required. They're not shit, they're not great, they're not going to implode but Mancini is too cautious and that will be his undoing.
I know they lost, I was watching, but some of their play is a joy to see.
Plus, It's not ALL about winning it's the taking part that counts ;-)
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Silva's not bad Tim - that is if you are watching him against Wolves or Blackpool. If he was that good, he wouldn't be at City I'm afraid. There's a reason he is not at the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid...
Hit the nail on the head there.
They couldn't get players like Messi, Villa, Ronaldo, so they ended up getting Tevez, Da Silva, and Milner.
Man City don't sign the best players ... they sign the B class players. Any player with common sense will no that a team with the functionality of Man City will not succeed in the long run; no matter how much money they chuck at it.
I don't necessarily agree with this, though I'm yet to have my socks knocked off by a City purchase, but I do think they're buying players to weaken direct opponents. It weakened Villa, for example. It might not be a popular opinion here given the circumstances surrounding the transfer, but I think if we'd have still had Milner we'd be sitting in the top five right now.
They are following that tactic as did Sir Alex over the years. It was alleged that was one of the reasons they had spoken to Rooney so that Man U would be severely weakened.
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I've heard plenty of people saying City will challenge for the title this season. Appears to me they'll fall well short of that this season.
They have to finish in the top 4 this season otherwise how many times a season can you spend 300m for it not to work?
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It was only a matter of time but its good to see that the cracks are already appearing. The Sun articles talks of a "city source" so it's hardly the most concrete story, however the talk of bust-ups between Toure/Milner and Adebayor/Kompany are pretty specific.
Sit back and enjoy...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3205348/Man-City-stars-want-Mancini-axed.html
Music ...sweet music!
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They have to finish in the top 4 this season otherwise how many times a season can you spend 300m for it not to work?
When you have as much money as Sheikh Yerbooty, as many times as he wants before he gets bored.
So it just depends on whether he gets bored before they finally click I suppose.
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I've heard plenty of people saying City will challenge for the title this season. Appears to me they'll fall well short of that this season.
They have to finish in the top 4 this season otherwise how many times a season can you spend 300m for it not to work?
Not too many I hope, for the sake of football not just Villa.
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They have to finish in the top 4 this season otherwise how many times a season can you spend 300m for it not to work?
When you have as much money as Sheikh Yerbooty, as many times as he wants before he gets bored.
So it just depends on whether he gets bored before they finally click I suppose.
Not really, with the new financial regulations and limits on squad size they will not be able to just keep adding players. They'll still have an advantage but they've said themselves that they will be reducing their spending from now on.
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They have to finish in the top 4 this season otherwise how many times a season can you spend 300m for it not to work?
When you have as much money as Sheikh Yerbooty, as many times as he wants before he gets bored.
So it just depends on whether he gets bored before they finally click I suppose.
Not really, with the new financial regulations and limits on squad size they will not be able to just keep adding players. They'll still have an advantage but they've said themselves that they will be reducing their spending from now on.
Why will they have to reduce spending? Sheikh Mansour could just get a sponsorship deal for 150 million a year from Etihad (which he owns through one of his many companies) and that will count as income, which they could then spend on players. Even with the new regulations this could happen.
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They won't implode. They'll keep going until they get it right.
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http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195874
They're not thinking too highly of Jimmy on blue moon these days
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http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195874
They're not thinking too highly of Jimmy on blue moon these days
To be honest, I didn't think much of him as a winger either. He can deliver a good cross when he gets open, but he's not going to beat anyone with Bale type pace.
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http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195874
They're not thinking too highly of Jimmy on blue moon these days
Serves Man City right for being stupid enough for buying a player who was one of the best centre midfielders in the Prem last season, and then sticking him out wide. I've a strange feeling we'll see him back in Villa colours one day you know.
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Thats 3 defeats in a row for them now, Im well pleased with that and Im sure many of us hope they do implode.
How much would we like them to lose the next 3 though ? Imagine moneybags Citeh 6 defeats in a row, now that would be a real crisis !
But their next 3 are, West Brom(a) Man U(h) Bham (h). Would you accept our hated local rivals getting big victories to exacerbate a crisis at Man City ?
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I'd settle for those next 3 games being D,L,W for Citeh. That should be enough to see Mancini off.
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I don't understand why anyone would want them to sack Mancini.
They'd just replace him with someone better (probaby someone less mind numbingly negative) who would be more likely to get the results that type of squad demands.
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Mancini can stay for as long as he likes.
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http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195874
They're not thinking too highly of Jimmy on blue moon these days
Ha ha ha:
He's like a nicer version of Stephen Hunt.
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Give us Milner back then you chumps. We knew how to play him and he was settled.
You can have some of your money back too.
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Has Frank Rikard (I have no idea how you spell it) found work yet?
If/when Mancini goes, I'd imagine he'd be swiftly bought in?
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http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195874
They're not thinking too highly of Jimmy on blue moon these days
Ah, you got there first. I was nerly in tears of laughter reading some of those posts... HILARIOUS!
That topic was pretty funny and just puts it into context how much of a joke the Bitter Blues are. So, seeing as James Milner isn't their next 'saviour' who will take them to numerous league titles and Champions League titles, who will be the next £30 million 'needed' player they need?
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http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195874
They're not thinking too highly of Jimmy on blue moon these days
Ah, you got there first. I was nerly in tears of laughter reading some of those posts... HILARIOUS!
That topic was pretty funny and just puts it into context how much of a joke the Bitter Blues are. So, seeing as James Milner isn't their next 'saviour' who will take them to numerous league titles and Champions League titles, who will be the next £30 million 'needed' player they need?
Emile Heskey. Well, whoever it is, he'll come from us won't he?
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I'm sure Milner is happy to take abuse to earn £100k+.
******.
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That thread is one of the great threads. To be honest, whenever I've watched them play I've always thought he was one of their better players, but I'm not surprised the Mancs expected something more obviously flashy for their money.
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I dare anyone to have a venture into any Mancini topics...
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I find it hard to revel in other peoples misery at the moment due to our team being so fuckin useless. Milner was a huge loss to our club and it is really starting to become a big problem. They will be in the top 4 at the end of the season, we may well be in the bottom 4. Can't get excited about JM not performing I'm afraid. I only hope Stephen Ireland starts playing well, thats a bigger issue for us.
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Loving it! In best Nelson Muntz voice: "HA HA!"
Bunch of wankers. Ever since Sinatra waltzed in with Sven, they thought a bit of cash spunking would buy them the title. I couldn't be happier that it's not quite so easy.
Who's gonna be able to come in and turn a bunch of mercanaries into players who give a toss? There's not many. And I still think there's a small club punching above its weight stigma with City. They'll never get a Mourinho, unless his stock falls dramatically at Real.
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well their fans will be demanding Bale next.. another £40 million spent ..
anyway fook manshiitty and fook Milner...
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money cant gurantee the title, but without it you can gurantee not winning it,
Man City will win some trophies over the next few years, the only thing that will stop them is if the Shiek pulls out,
which is highly unlikely,
i think he's only ever been once,
so that suggests he dont give a toss about the club or what they are winning, he has no interest in football, unlike RA at chelsea who at least shows some passion.
he probably just puts Man City down to the sales promotion budget when the invoices come in,
whatever he bought them for is anyones guess, but it wasnt because of his love of the game, bet he doest even keep up to date with the scores.
so as long as the oil money comes in he probably isnt about to bail out, as its just a small expenses claim to him
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pAddy power make martin o neill clear favourite to be the next man city manager- perish the thought!
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pAddy power make martin o neill clear favourite to be the next man city manager- perish the thought!
That would screw them up big time. Although he'd probably come in and buy up our Ash. £30m please.
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pAddy power make martin o neill clear favourite to be the next man city manager- perish the thought!
Ooh - there is a God after all!
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pAddy power make martin o neill clear favourite to be the next man city manager- perish the thought!
He would last about 5 minutes.
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We'll have him back if they don't want him. Let's be honest, there is a distinctly Milner sized hole in the middle of of our midfield.
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We'll have him back if they don't want him. Let's be honest, there is a distinctly Milner sized hole in the middle of of our midfield.
Bloody hell, I thought you meant O'Neill then.
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Lets be honest, there has been a Barry sized hole as well since he left.
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Don't want that lard arse back. He's looking past it now, and i'm surprised he still gets into their team.
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Lets be honest, there has been a Barry sized hole as well since he left.
and that's one big hole.
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Offer £15m for Milner in January.
I doubt it would work but it'd be interesting to see whether it would turn Milners head at all.
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They'll probably bid again for Kaka in January.
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I'm not sure what the intent of this thread is..but as things stand, the blue mancs are in a top four spot and we are three off relegation.
Tell me again, which team is imploding.....
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Wouldnt at all be surprised to see Citeh offering ridiculous amounts for a few of the Spurs 1st team...Bale, Van Der Vaart, Huddlestone, Modric...take a couple of these off their hands and pretty certain to cement the 4th place CL spot.
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Offer £15m for Milner in January.
I doubt it would work but it'd be interesting to see whether it would turn Milners head at all.
10 million.... he is no way worth 15.
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I logged into that site, when you post, a message comes up saying you will receive a notification once your post has been authorised by a moderator. Your post doesn't appear for ages (over 15 mins) so trying to have a discussion is a bloody nightmare.
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I logged into that site, when you post, a message comes up saying you will receive a notification once your post has been authorised by a moderator. Your post doesn't appear for ages (over 15 mins) so trying to have a discussion is a bloody nightmare.
That forum does appear very immature to me. You get called a 'rag' if you post positive criticism or have a different opinion to others - very much like the small heath forum where only 'pro blues' posts are tolerated and if you post any positive criticism or have a different opinion you're called a 'viler' or something like that. Pathetic.